← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 9618 | Posts: 35 | Started: 2003-09-08
2003-09-08 02:28 | User Profile
*If you think I'm gonna rag on Mel for caving in here, you couldn't be more wrong. Read closely the things he's saying in this article - he's choosing to make the cut but he's extracting a bold price for the Jews' temerity and arrogance by loudly and bitterly denouncing the Jews explicitly, for forcing his hand. When have you ever heard a Hollywitz star utter such truth? The ground shakes with every "they" he utters! He's turning what might otherwise be a gutless El Fold-o into a trumpet call to the gentile races of the planet and particularly his fellow Christians. Franco, can you hear me in the back? HE'S NAMING THE JEW!
Now is when it starts to get interesting.....how long will the Jews continue to print his statements verbatim before they realize people aren't reflexively crying "Hitler! Death camps! Aaaaiiieee!"...they're grimly nodding and clenching their fists.
Give em hell, Mel!!*
[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/115475p-104184c.html]http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/115...5p-104184c.html[/url]
Mel's 'Passion'-ate defense gives offense
Sunday, September 7, 2003
The holy war over "The Passion," Mel Gibson's movie on Jesus Christ, is raging on all fronts. The Anti-Defamation League is condemning Gibson's latest defense of his movie, made in an article by Peter Boyer in the new New Yorker.
Part of the brouhaha stems from Gibson's interest in Anne Catherine Emmerich, a 19th-century Augustinian nun in Germany who recounted visions of Christ's Crucifixion that some regard as anti-Semitic. Gibson, who carries a piece of her habit as a relic, asks:
"Why are they calling her a Nazi? Because modern secular Judaism wants to blame the Holocaust on the Catholic Church. And it's revisionism. And they've been working on that one for a while."
"To me, this [comment] is classic anti-Semitism," ADL National Director Abraham Foxman told us.
Foxman, who survived the Holocaust because Catholic clergy baptized him to shield him from the Nazis, added, "I think [Gibson] is on the fringes of anti-Semitism."
Gibson also lays his lash on New York Times columnist Frank Rich. Responding to remarks about the Holocaust made in The Times by Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, Rich accused the actor's camp of using "PR spin to defend a Holocaust denier."
Mel Gibson says of Rich, "I want to kill him. I want his intestines on a stick. ... I want to kill his dog." (Rich told us, through a Times spokeswoman, "I don't have a dog.")
The article says Gibson reluctantly took out a scene in which Caiaphas, a Jewish high priest, says of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." The passage, from the Gospel of Matthew, has been interpreted by some as implicating the Jewish people in Jesus' Crucifixion.
"I wanted it in," Gibson tells Boyer. "But, man, if I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come kill me."
2003-09-08 03:10 | User Profile
Just one example from the front. Foreign Affairs is published by the Council on Foreign Relations- should anything else need be said? I continued my subscription throughout 1991-1992 just to be able to witness and archive the infiltration of neoconservative influence on the Council. Looking back through those issues these days is an exercise in self-control; the flailings after 9/11 are transparent and were obviously canned in waiting for the right moment in history.
Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners was laughable, and was denounced in many "mainstream" reviews for bias and conjecture. The outright attack on Catholicism reviewed below is something different: Goldhagen implies that the Catholic church is a proxy for the Christian faith, and proceeds to Hologuilt all who profess.
Here's hoping beyond hope that Gibson's film and the controversy surrounding it serves both as a flashpoint and a rallying point for all who believe, and for those who might not be believers but would stand with the faithful for a higher cause.
Enjoy.
[url=http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20030101fabook10257/daniel-jonah-goldhagen/a-moral-reckoning-the-role-of-the-catholic-church-in-the-holocaust-and-the-unfulfilled-duty-of-repair.html]http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20030101fabo...-of-repair.html[/url] A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and the Unfulfilled Duty of Repair. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2002, 352 pp. $25.00
Reviewed by Stanley Hoffmann, Foreign Affairs, January/February 2003
Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners was a work of political interpretation. But this study of the Catholic Church and the Holocaust is a work of moral evaluation. Goldhagen reviews trenchantly the attitudes of the pope and the Church, the roots and manifestations of antisemitism, and the arguments of the Church's defenders. Here again, Goldhagen is more concerned with getting to the essence of a phenomenon than in dealing with qualifications and nuance. Whereas the Vatican has tried to separate Nazi "pagan" antisemitism from the traditional Catholic version, Goldhagen asserts that there was a "symbiosis" between the two. As he writes, the Church and the pope "failed during the Holocaust ... because they believed the Jews to be evil and harmful, and because they did not object in principle to punishing the Jews substantially."
The third part of his book is the most original. It treats the Church as a rigidly authoritarian institution that has betrayed not only Jews but also Catholics. It therefore has, in Goldhagen's eyes, a duty to confront its own offenses and sins of omission, make amends with the victims, and reform itself. In examining the last two tasks, he distinguishes among material, political, and moral restitution, discusses what these should entail, and assesses how far the different Church leaderships have gone in telling the truth and breaking with the past. He concludes that the Church must stop being a political institution and become a moral one, and that this step requires eliminating from the New Testament the "ferocious" antisemitism "spread throughout the text." Goldhagen's insistence on writing a moral history may make readers uncomfortable. But his polemical style and moral intransigence are in the service of values that need to be defended. Goldhagen's voice is a salutary one.
2003-09-08 03:47 | User Profile
Next Mel's movie, "Braveheart II", where the English will be replaced by the Christ-killers :gun:
2003-09-08 04:22 | User Profile
I think Mel's future movies will no longer be filmed in Hollywood. Even if he wanted them to be.
Maybe Lucas & Gibson can begin a new studio complex in Vancouver or something.
2003-09-08 04:37 | User Profile
I would not worry too much about this. He will put it back in when the DVD comes out! :)
**The article says Gibson reluctantly took out a scene in which Caiaphas, a Jewish high priest, says of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." The passage, from the Gospel of Matthew, has been interpreted by some as implicating the Jewish people in Jesus' Crucifixion.
"I wanted it in," Gibson tells Boyer. "But, man, if I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come kill me." **
:gun: :gun: :gun:
2003-09-08 04:44 | User Profile
By the way, if that Christ-killer says that in Aramaic or Greek, and there are no subtitles, how are the viewers going to get that interesting moment? May there be a DVD edition with subtitles and no cuts! Perhaps packaged with "Der Ewige Jude"? :shock:
2003-09-08 04:50 | User Profile
TO all "Christian"-zionist lurkers:
That's right, an organized Jewish group hugely respected by American Jews forced Gibson to censor the literal word of the Gospels.
From a movie he directed, financed and organized. The same Jews who when criticized for promoting and financing vile rap lyrics, anti-Christian pieces, and lewd material tell you its about FREEDOM.
Have you figured out who embodies the spirit of Anti-Christ yet?
2003-09-08 04:50 | User Profile
Mel fought as good a fight for as good a cause as any modern hero could be asked to undertake.
The Vatican is no longer Catholic. The West is no longer White.
Time to clean house for OUR children, brothers...
2003-09-08 04:52 | User Profile
Gibson has earned my faith and loyalty.
I won't believe the news reports and the people who draft them until I see the finished product.
I have no doubt there'll be a director's version :th:
2003-09-08 04:52 | User Profile
Time to clean house for OUR children, brothers...
Freeeeeedooooommm :punk: :punk: :punk: :gunsmilie :gunsmilie :gunsmilie
2003-09-08 04:53 | User Profile
**Maybe Lucas & Gibson can begin a new studio complex in Vancouver or something. **
Indiana would be safer bet. Anything with guns or religion is sure to bring down the wrath of Canada's secular statists.
2003-09-08 04:55 | User Profile
He said statists :rolleyes:
2003-09-08 05:19 | User Profile
Time to clean house for OUR children, brothers...
Freeeeeedooooommm :punk: :punk: :punk: :gun: :gun: :gun:
:ph34r:
Claymores or AK's...t'wont be pretty, cousin Tolstoy.
We've seen the Tribe's handiwork in 1918 Moscow; 1920 Budapest; 1936 Madrid; 2003 Palestine...despite the "victimhood" whining, the Jews are among the most brutal of all occupying forces.
If they succeed in taking over a disarmed America, count on at least 30 Million murdered...
2003-09-08 05:36 | User Profile
Campion,
I don't even consider "christian"zionists to be Christians. I think they just don't have the guts to admit that they really wish to be noahides. Maybe when the Israelis clear out all the Palestinians these pricks will move to Israel where they, as the shabbos goys that they are can pick fruit and do all the other work that Jews don't want to do.
2003-09-09 03:29 | User Profile
Maybe Mel will release an uncensored version for DVD?
2003-09-09 03:47 | User Profile
Prodigal son, Sert.
Keep the door open and the calf fattened.
2003-09-09 03:59 | User Profile
Prodigal son
:lol:
2003-09-09 09:06 | User Profile
From WND:
Gibson said he has found himself caught up in a huge conflict between "big realms that are warring and battling. You stick your head up and you get knocked," he said. "I didn't realize it would be so vicious. The acts against this film started early. There is vehement anti-Christian sentiment out there and they don't want it."
About Frank Rich, the New York Times columnist who implied Gibson's father is "a Holocaust denier," the director had some choice ââ¬â and inflammatory ââ¬â words: "I want to kill him. I want his intestines on a stick. I want to kill his dog."
Gibson said: "He never denied the Holocaust. He just said there were fewer than 6 million."
As proof of his desire to avoid confrontation, Gibson cited his decision to cut a scene in which Caiaphas says "his blood be on us and on our children" soon after Pontius Pilate washes his hands of the captive Christ.
"I wanted it in," he said. "My brother said I was wimping out if I didn't include it. But, man, if I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house. They'd come to kill me."
Icon Productions, Gibson's privately owned production company, spent $25 million on the film. Marketing the project will be in the hands of Icon outside the U.S. and a yet-to-be-named distributor in the United States. Fox Filmed Entertainment, a subsidiary of News Corp., which is controlled by the Rupert Murdoch, is Icon's usual U.S. distributor. But Fox has waived its right of first refusal and isn't planning to distribute "The Passion."
Alan Nierob, Gibson's publicist at Rogers & Cowan, told Forbes Icon will start showing the film to other distributors in September and that it is looking for "someone smaller, who does niche marketing." A Paramount Pictures spokeswoman says that studio is "waiting to see it."
[url=http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34497]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=34497[/url]
2003-09-09 10:06 | User Profile
*Alan Nierob, Gibson's publicist at Rogers & Cowan, told Forbes Icon will start showing the film to other distributors in September and that it is looking for "someone smaller, who does niche marketing."*
Understandable considering there are only 2 billion Christians in the world <_<
2003-09-09 12:59 | User Profile
Prodigal son
:lol:
Tell me about it! My influence on this forum seems to be so pervasive that I am mentioned by name (or reputation), in just about every thread. Spooky, itz! :lol:
Campion: your advice will not go unheeded :)
2003-09-09 19:04 | User Profile
Heard Rush soft-pedal this issue a few weeks ago. The man has amazing verbal agility. He managed to go the entire time without mentioning the J-word even once.
He's apparently worth every penny they're paying him, but they're not making his job very easy!
2003-09-09 19:24 | User Profile
Check out Freak Republik on Gibson's film. Even the freakers caught on to the zhid machinations and censorship, with the faithful FR zhid kommissars wailing about "ze halacast" and zhid persecution by Catholics again. Will it finally dawn on the FReakers who the real haters and enemies of the West are?
2003-09-09 19:42 | User Profile
Welcome back. :lol:
2003-09-09 20:10 | User Profile
Mel did a great job of exposing that bunch of monsters at ADL for what they are.
2003-09-09 21:03 | User Profile
Gibson also lays his lash on New York Times columnist Frank Rich. Responding to remarks about the Holocaust made in The Times by Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, Rich accused the actor's camp of using "PR spin to defend a Holocaust denier."
**Mel Gibson says of Rich, "I want to kill him. I want his intestines on a stick. ... I want to kill his dog." **
More about Frank Rich:
Rich--though not as proficient or as well-known as his colleagues at the "New York Times", Rosenthal and Safire--is an apt pupil. He is learning how to wield the instrument which Buchanan called "the branding iron" of anti-Semitism against the innocent. Rich worries more about Jewish influence versus Christian influence in America. He fears any sign of Christians uniting for any purpose. He particularly despises the Christian Coalition, connects Buchanan with the coalition, and condemns both in many of his columns. He accuses Buchanan of using "code words," which seems to mean Buchanan's use of any Jewish name or reference. (Some months ago, Rich judged Dole guilty of anti-Semitism because Dole, in criticizing Hollywood, mentioned the name of the head of Time-Warner, Gerald Levin--who happens to be Jewish.) In a recent column, "The 'Too Jewish' Question (March 16th), Rich (along with Norman Podhoretz) was upset because the other Republican candidates did not slander Buchanan publicly as an anti-Semite: "A major presidential candidate's anti-Semitic rhetoric went unchallenged, even unremarked, by his opponents..." (Perhaps Dole recalled his own brush with anti-Semitism.)
Astonishingly, Rich claims that Jews are lacking in influence in America, that their grievances are being ignored. And so he believes that it is time for Jews to assert themselves: "Would the silence [about Buchanan] have been so deafening if Jews, like every other minority, were constantly in the country's face, noses and all?" Rich, too, uses the accepted charge sheet against Buchanan, developed by Rosenthal: Disrespect for Israel; Disrespect for the Israeli Lobby; Disrespect for Nazi hunters; Disrespect for some people with Jewish names, including Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Too much respect for Christianity and America.
[url=http://zog.to/3/antisemi/branding.htm]http://zog.to/3/antisemi/branding.htm[/url]
[url=http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2003/0806.asp]http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2003/0806.asp[/url]
2003-09-09 21:06 | User Profile
HE'S NAMING THE JEW! Woo Hoo!! Do it again, Mel! The first time's the hardest!
:th: :th:
2003-09-10 12:12 | User Profile
Yes, Mel has been driven so against the wall that even him has used the horrible incriminating term "They" when pointing to those who want to destroy his work. Poor Mel, he will have to make for this at least 2 Holoco$t movies for the Choosen ones. He should have followed Arnieôs footsteps, donated $750.000 to the Wiesenthal fundation and denonced his own father as a Nazi. Thats the only way to will get any "free pass" from "them".
2003-09-11 03:15 | User Profile
I am so sick and tired of Jews I want to throw up. I look forward to the day they all get what they have coming to them.
2003-09-13 01:38 | User Profile
Israel Shahak, in Jewish History, Jewish Religion, quote,..."It's interesting to note that while the sacred texts of Judaism gloat over the death of Christ and 'are happy to take responsibility for it,' the official position of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League(ADL), as imposed on the producers of the Oberammergau Passion Play is that the Romans alone, not the Pharisees, were guilty of Christ's death and that is was Pilate, not Caiphas, who actively conspired in His assassination."
And this from Daniel-Rops, an historian and linguist, from Jesus and His Times;
"We certainly cannot look to the Talmuds for any direct historical information regarding Jesus. All that the rabbis let us know about him is hostile, insulting and malevolent. Sometimes he is referered to under the name of Balaam the son of Behor, 'the false prophet' who led Israel astray, sometimes under his real name of Jesus of Nazareth, but always with some insulting qualification, such as the liar, the impostor or the bastard."
And again from Dr. Israel Shahak of Jerusalem's Hebrew University: "...According to the Talmud, Jesus was exectued by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbincial authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it: in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned."... "The more popular accounts-which were nevertheless taken quite seriously-such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists..."
Recommended reading, Judaism's Strange Gods, Michael A. Hoffman II. I don't like being forced-fed.
2003-09-13 02:05 | User Profile
I can hardly wait to stock up on 'Passions' parapharnelia. That would be the kind of thing one could wear to respectable academia events.
It is as if a barrier has come down, and judeo-critical discourse entered the world of the TV hive mind. The Televitz is now, de facto, broadcasting it's own destruction. Gibson is a HUGE star. Given the sad, Hollywood-centric state of our culture, this will be very, very useful, from populist venues, to areas affected by them--thus, almost everywhere.
** TO all "Christian"-zionist lurkers:
That's right, an organized Jewish group hugely respected by American Jews forced Gibson to censor the literal word of the Gospels.
From a movie he directed, financed and organized. The same Jews who when criticized for promoting and financing vile rap lyrics, anti-Christian pieces, and lewd material tell you its about FREEDOM.
Have you figured out who embodies the spirit of Anti-Christ yet? **
2003-09-13 15:00 | User Profile
I hope Gibson knows that he has the support of most of the people in this country and that he's not alone in this quest. Someone ought to let him know about this forum.
Rush is a total washout. I think his best days are behind him. There are so many profoundly damaging issues facing the citizens of this country and he hasn't touched any of them for years.
2003-09-13 15:07 | User Profile
** Rush is a total washout. **
Limbaugh is a zionist married to a jew. He took his honeymoon in Israel.
2003-09-14 07:37 | User Profile
** "His blood be on us, and on our children." **
Wintermute, what say you to that?
Walter
2003-09-16 13:41 | User Profile
I don't think Gibsons has done any recent changes to the movie. All the statements about toning the movie down reflect changes in the script that happening long before the ADL hate campaign started.
2003-09-16 14:12 | User Profile
**Limbaugh is a zionist married to a jew. He took his honeymoon in Israel. **
I'm suprised they allowed his fat ass on the plane, for fear the extra weight would cause the plane to crash! :lol: