← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · BjarniTyrdal
Thread ID: 9556 | Posts: 26 | Started: 2003-09-05
2003-09-05 20:54 | User Profile
I wonder if any moderators are on this board. Some of the messages are sickening and lunatic. Such things seem to be against posting guidelines for this place. Having recently come across Polish Noble here I wonder if he is same as the one from VNN.
From VNN come these Polish Noble threads:
"Small Dick Germans Cannibal Nut Eaters" "German penises 'too small for EU condoms" (links don't work as that sick board is thankfully gone) Quotes of "Noble Polish" from VNN reposted here:
Considering rape of Germans through bolshewik hordes: "And, of course, German women must have enjoyed having so much Russian dick inside them."
On German woman: German women are not only among the ugliest in Europe, but they are among the least virtuous as well. One need only to visit Jamaica to find alarming numbers of them in the arms of ganja-smoking Rastafarians. It's embarrassing.
"100 years from now Berlin will be populated by mostly Turks, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Yugo-Slavs, Russians, Ukrainians, and White Russians. The fat and lazy Germans will buttfuck and miscegenate themselves out of existence. Then the German problem will be settled once and for all. Not a shot will be fired. Berlin will become part of a huge Slavic state stretching from the Rhine to Japan. This huge state will be the savior of the white race.
Consequently, Germany should be grateful that she is even permitted to exist at all. (!!!)
Today she has an effete and dying population that will be replaced by large numbers of virile Slavs and, unfortunately, by nonAryan Turks. I predict that 25 years from now, Berlin will be more Slavic, than Wroclaw will be Germanic, even though there will be population shifts in both directions."
"If you beg long enough we may permit the noblest of you to flee to our lands before the final deluge of your depraved and decadent countries. You will speak Polish and Russian at the level of fawning apes, and be allowed, perhaps, to sweep our streets and mop our floors for the pittance of paupers."
It seems that Polish Noble hates the English as well - "Take a look again. German women are almost as ugly as their English cousins."
O.D. quotes:
"I, on the contrary, don't hate Germans. They are an industrious people who possess the innate ability to create an orderly and highly efficient society.
However, their flaws are so garish that their virtues seem to dwarf in comparison.
Is it civilization if a cannibal uses a fork?"
"Prussia is not German." Here he demostrates hate for Croats: "I did, however, enjoy havng my way with Croatian girls (I grew up in the States among Croats and Serbs). They always came back for more!!!" "You jackass Kraut, when are you going to learn how to spell?
"I hear your battle-axe wife has just returned from Jamaica. Have you finished licking the Rastafarian monkey batter from her Swabian fish factory yet?" "Yes, everyone in Europe loves and admires the loud-mouthed arrogant Germans and their ugly negro-loving women."
"I don't look to Germans for leadership. They are the losers of all time. The most hated nation on earth. I hope that they rot in the same dung that they are made of."
In this thread [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=10598&hl=]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...topic=10598&hl=[/url] the only post by PN was a simple slur against all Germans.
"And you are a Swabian faggot, which is lower than a one-legged negress in heat." "I can hear your nasal voice whenever I read your artless prose. A typical needle-dick pretending to be a paleo-conservative. What you are is a Nazi who is too afraid to admit it. You are below contempt."
I had hoped that here I will see Europeans with honor serious about saving our lands. Instead, I see vile garbage like the quotes above. I looked at the messages written by Polish Noble and found those quotes which make up most of what he writes here. I will not make him as an example because Leland Gaunt made this equally vile comment quote:
"POLES Racial Characteristics:
A nation known as the Rudimental Reading Class of Europe. Its citizens are turkey-loaf look-alikes descended from a barbarian horde that took a wrong turn on its way to sack Rome. They spent the Middle Ages trying to fight Vikings on horseback and invented breech-loading artillery by pointing their cannons the wrong way around. They didn't know about sexual intercourse until the tenth century, having previously reproduced by raiding warthog litters. In 1947, the Poles became a Communist country under the impression that it was a rite of the Catholic church, and today their principal exports are snow tires manufactured from their own native deposits of snow."
He also made a great many other messages that are just as bad. While Fredrich Braun makes some good messages and posts some excellent articles he to has printed evil and untrue comments about Poles as had a Croat here as well. If this site has moderators such things should not be printed. I come to see what decent people that care about Europa say about dealing with the problems we face. I want nothing to do with VNN like naked hatred and stupidity and if so much of that kind of stuff is here then I will not be. I agree with much of this Faust quote: "Oh, How happy Stalin was to see two reactionary states savage each till they could fight no more and fall to Soviet Unionâââ‰â¢s domination. The Soviets in 1945 took away as much land from the Polish Sate as Germans did in 1939. All the Polish fighters who helped the ââ∠âAlliesâââ¬Ã did was aid Soviet domination. Gloating over the events in the Polish-German War of 1939 is plain foolishness for ether side; they both ended being enslaved by the Soviets in 1945."
All of Europa is being destroyed yet some here want to hate other Europeans and fight the last war over again on this site instead of focusing on the real problems we all face now and what to do about it. When I see hardship in Poland, Germany or anywhere else in Europa I see a need to help other Occidentals and understand them. The fact is that no nation in Europa can afford to fight against other Occidentals when third world hordes take our lands which are controlled by Jews and patriots of all nations are oppressed. I hope the gutter talk is sent to VNN and real nationalists and conservatives have a place to speak like civil men about serious things and act accordingly.
2003-09-05 21:05 | User Profile
Be CLEAR between "VNN" and "VNN Forum." Very different... :rolleyes:
2003-09-05 21:31 | User Profile
These, quotes, all taken out of context, and not all authored by me....
Classic weaselism. "Out of context"..."not all authored by me..."
I have great respect and admiration for Poles and Germans. And every other genus of European.
You however, Polish Ignoble, are a buffoon, a wanker and a piss-poor liar to boot. You're a disgrace to the color of your skin - if I could wave a wand and turn you Jewish, I would.
I deeply regret having tried to mediate what I believed was a simple dispute on another thread, as anyone who would write the comments quoted above - and then attempt to play the martyr here ("snif! he said 'polack!' snif!") is an order of slug beneath contempt, save for stepping on. Rban, bless him, is worth a gross of you.
2003-09-05 21:53 | User Profile
I printed the Polish Noble quotes because they are a clear example of the sort of filth that has hurt this place. Certainly others here have decided to post savage filth and I condemned them as well. As to the context I simply say that gutter talk like what is re-printed does not belong here and I want to bring such savagry to the moderators (if any are here) in case they don't know about it. The stuff from the vile VNN forum was already reposted else where but I took the worst of it and put in one place because it deomnstrates that the most base form of violent hatred of a European nation is clearly being pushed here often. It also demonstrates that those that wish to slag off Europeans in the most hateful way possible (be they Poles, Germans or anyone else) should not be given a free pass. It seems that such conduct need be removed from here and that those that wish to stay here should aspire to be something other then spouters of bile.
2003-09-05 22:02 | User Profile
BjarniTyrdal,
In other words, you would like Germans to be beyond the pale of criticism?
A noble Teuton can cast a slur at a lowly Slav, but when he receives a witty comment in exchange containing a kernel of truth, it is a crime against civilization?
As to the charge of vulgarity: I can be bawdy, but I am rarely vulgar.
2003-09-05 22:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by BjarniTyrdal@Sep 5 2003, 21:53 * The stuff from the vile VNN forum was already reposted else where but I took the worst of it and put in one place because it deomnstrates that the most base form of violent hatred of a European nation is clearly being pushed here often. It also demonstrates that those that wish to slag off Europeans in the most hateful way possible (be they Poles, Germans or anyone else) should not be given a free pass. It seems that such conduct need be removed from here and that those that wish to stay here should aspire to be something other then spouters of bile.*
If you say it should be removed from here, why did you bring it over here? We may exercise moderator functions here, but unlike Free Republic we don't chose to go cruising other forums and see what people are saying other places.
As to the exchanges, mainly between LG and PN, I will just suffice to note that Tex did observe things getting a little out of hand and requested that things be toned down a bit, and to my knowledge, since then they have. If you don't see any reason to go rehashing old WWII wounds, I similarly don't see any reason to go rehashing old OD wounds and insults.
It is true that this isn't a libertarian forum, unlike Liberty Forum, and a certain minimum level of decorum is expected. But, fortunately, this isn't "Free" Republic either, and personally I am glad.
2003-09-05 22:18 | User Profile
I never said Germans to be beyond the pale of criticism and for you imply else wise is a lie. I did say that Leland Gaunt and Frederich Braun and that Croat were at times as sickening as you are. Acting like a savage towards other Europeans is something that hurts this place and I condemn all that do so.
** As to the charge of vulgarity: I can be bawdy, but I am rarely vulgar.**
Your comments that I quote above are vile and sick. They simply are not something that should come from the mouth of a European let a lone one that thinks himself noble. The Poles that I know are decent people that are a credit to that country and they would never degrade themselves with such trash as you have printed here often.
2003-09-05 22:28 | User Profile
If you say it should be removed from here, why did you bring it over here? We may exercise moderator functions here, but unlike Free Republic we don't chose to go cruising other forums and see what people are saying other places.
I did not bring it here. It was already found here as a search for Polish Noble's posts will show.
**As to the exchanges, mainly between LG and PN, I will just suffice to note that Tex did observe things getting a little out of hand and requested that things be toned down a bit, and to my knowledge, since then they have. **
I did not know that. Hope that you are right and that if those that run this place know of this evil material and correct it then I retract my comment. If this message serries that I started is not meaningful any longer then I see no reason to continue it.
2003-09-05 22:28 | User Profile
BjarniTyrdal, it seems to me that the rudest posters on this forum are the Germans, Poles, Russians, Croats and Serbs, or more generally, the Europeans east of the Rhine. Maybe we just have a culture shock over here. Personaly I believe that Anglos, Dutchmen, Frenchmen and Scandinavians are more civil in debate than Central and Eastern Europeans. I don't know what your oppinion is? Maybe it is because the Romans never crossed the Rhine? Germans are known for their arrogance and rudeness, so do not expect a polite conversation. Look how the Russians handle Chechnia, or how the Yugos behaved in their latest civil war (they are at war with each other most of the time anyway), and you see how passions run high.
2003-09-05 22:39 | User Profile
In hindsight, how smart was this guy?
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.
2003-09-05 22:51 | User Profile
**BjarniTyrdal, it seems to me that the rudest posters on this forum are the Germans, Poles, Russians, Croats and Serbs, or more generally, the Europeans east of the Rhine. Maybe we just have a culture shock over here. Personaly I believe that Anglos, Dutchmen, Frenchmen and Scandinavians are more civil in debate than Central and Eastern Europeans. I don't know what your oppinion is? Maybe it is because the Romans never crossed the Rhine? Germans are known for their arrogance and rudeness, so do not expect a polite conversation. Look how the Russians handle Chechnia, or how the Yugos behaved in their latest civil war (they are at war with each other most of the time anyway), and you see how passions run high. **
It seems that Mr. Jamestown is right based upon what is to be seen at this forum. However, I know plenty of Poles and Germans and visit their countries often and find them fine people in general and the nationalist very smart and dear. I know no Serbs and nothing about them. What few Croats I know I like very much. I don't know many Americans but when I visited there I thought it a very rude and violent place except the the deep South which is very civil and refined.
The Texas person is very respectable and his post below is wonderful.
I will let this matter of this series die as the Williams fellow showed the error of my way.
2003-09-05 23:00 | User Profile
Can't we just all (whites, I mean) get along? Sniping at "my people" don't hurt me, as I am secure in who I am, but only shows the immaturity of the attacker. To win over PN you'd have to prove that the Poles are pigs, and vice versa. Who'd benefit from that? I suggest to forget these unproductive topics. Especially those who live in the US, isn't it time to forget the old squabbles?
I am happy to see any white person around here in the third-world-like California.
2003-09-05 23:43 | User Profile
Mad Russian,
My sentiments exactly. We have bigger fish to fry than to engage in things that have no relevance to the present. This sort of things have only benefitted our enemies. The bloody history of the 20th century is proof enough of that. Only two groups of people came out winners from that century-- Jews and Plutocrats.
2003-09-06 00:44 | User Profile
*Originally posted by il ragno@Sep 5 2003, 17:31 * ** You're a disgrace to the color of your skin - if I could wave a wand and turn you Jewish, I would. **
:lol: This quote is a keeper. You're very good at verbal judo, IR.
2003-09-06 00:45 | User Profile
I am moved to say that the Russian and other person are correct. I stand for the liberation of all nations in Europa and folkish revolution. I once know an Austrian pan-Germanic who endlessly bemoans the lose of Tyrol and acts like nothing matters other then restoration of the German boarders of 1871. Such foolishness! Our sacred lands are flooded with every sort of scum and he worries about boarders when his nation is directed from the EU, jews on the inside and we face total destruction within 30 years. Thankfully, people like that are rare in racial circles but I think they are common here as people like being hidden behind a "screen name" I use my own name and state what I think without fear as other wise why should one care if no action follows. I did not get elected by hiding and being vulgar but I do well by presenting myself as a I am and think that other here should do as well.
2003-09-06 15:52 | User Profile
*Originally posted by LG the keyboard Kaiser wrote@Sep 5 2003, 18:45 * ** The Polaks and czechs stole our land. They didn't even fight for it - they had foreigners hand it over to them on a silver platter who kept us disarmed, so they could expell and murder our people without having to worry that we will be able to defend ourselves. **
This Hunnish poltroon is simply laughable. The Poles and Czechs were given back what had been stolen from them in the previous centuries.
As the 8-9th century map below shows, we have not yet received all of the lands that belong to us. Chronos will no doubt correct this error.
[img]http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~koby/political/chapter_01/0102slavs.jpg[/img]
Notice how much of what is today east Krautlandia, belonged to the Slavs, but was later stolen by the barbarous Huns.
2003-09-06 17:37 | User Profile
Frankly I'm quite sick of the WN "bemoaning" the lack of unity and disregarding cultural, ethnic borders and accepting all results of past conflicts. If it would have been "lets all just get along and fight the enemys of our Race" then there wouldn't be Finnland or the Baltic-States. 200 or more years and they would have been absorbed by the russians and their culture would be erased. You might say "so what, they are still white" - but they will probably think different on this subject.
Leeland I fully agree with you on this! In fact I've been arguing this very same argument [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=10555]here[/url] against il Rango. If our distinct ethnic identities disappear, well then what is white unity worth anymore?
And as I keep on arguing, but nobody ever seems to answer, is that no race on earth is a monolith! Every race has ethnic infighting, even the Jews! Hell Blacks are the most divided on earth as Rwanda and the ghettos of LA prove. Blacks constantly engage in tribal/gang warfare. Pakistanis and Indians are racially the same, yet can't wait to blow each other up in a nuclear standoff. China and Japan hate each other, China can't stand the Mongols, Vietnam hates China, and so on. In the Middle East, "Allah has 99 different names". So ethnic infighting among whites is nothing remarkable, it happens in every race. Can ethnic infighting be contained, yes and it should. But it can never be fully eliminated.
Like Leeland, if some jackass tells me I should give up my Slavic heritage or allow assaults on Slavs in the name of "white unity", I'll tell them to eat :dung:. My first and foremost concern are for Slavs, just like Leeland's is for Germans. It's not that I don't support other White nationalist movements, but the Slavic people come first in my mind!
2003-09-06 18:51 | User Profile
Indeed, striking a balance between disunity and unity is crucial. The 'white race' is ok a designaion, but it is a bit too amorphous a term to get the kind of loyalty that 'German,' 'Russian,' 'Germanic,' 'Slavic,' etc., get.
Both Germany and Russia must again be great powers before the white race is again on the correct path. The key for both nations is policies and attitudes that increase the birth rate. In the case of Germany, negative attitude toward white women breeding with non-whites also have increase massively (I am not sure this is such a problem in Russia). Ultimately, this will allow for mass migration to the US, Canadan, and Australia.
Increased military power and co-operation between Russia and Germany (and other EU nations) is also quite key. Then these nations will be better respected by the US, which will moderate our insanse immigration and foreign policies, and generally help change American attitudes about race.
2003-09-06 20:29 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Sep 5 2003, 15:31 * ** > These, quotes, all taken out of context, and not all authored by me....*
if I could wave a wand and turn you Jewish, I would.
**
:o Classic
2003-09-06 23:11 | User Profile
The Pan-Germanic Austrian "bemoans" the loss of South-Tyrol rightfully, because untill this very day there are still Germans living there and their culture is Baverian.
I agree that they are German and that Italy has no right at all to that territory just as I think that Austria should be part of Germany. What I say is that you look over is that I believe it is pointless at best to talk about retaking territory and rebuilding long dead empires when you have no sovereignty, your culture is dying, your nation is run by jews and enemies of your people and you face extinction.
Frankly I'm quite sick of the WN "bemoaning" the lack of unity and disregarding cultural, ethnic borders and accepting all results of past conflicts.
I said no such thing. I am sick of listening to people here portray other Europeans as not human and pretend that all of our nations are not facing total destruction.
**If it would have been "lets all just get along and fight the enemies of our Race" then there wouldn't be Finnland or the Baltic-States. 200 or more years and they would have been absorbed by the russians and their culture would be erased. **
You seem to be wanting to attribute to me things I have not said. I support self determination for all European nations and regionalism. As to fighting the enemies of our race I will say that our race is about 8% of the world population and given birth rates we soon will be 2%. All of our nations are dying and controlled by aliens and patriots are oppressed . Europa has a very grim situation and if the nations of Europa are to survive we must recognize that within the current situation we must save our nations first and seek to avoid European wide wars which have cost us far more then they have given us. Intra-European wars are vary dangerous not only in terms of the lives it takes but it also weakens us to alien conquest which is why I encourage not the bottomless hate for those not from my country. If tomorrow Germany had the boarders of 1871 as well as all of Austria, Tyrol and Switzerland the demographic doom you faced will not have changed. That is why I say you have priorities that are misplaced.
You might say "so what, they are still white" - but they will probably think different on this subject.
I say nothing like that ever so please stop lying about what I stand for.
"You are like some judge who is demanding from a raped and robbed woman that she should finaly shut up and accept her fate and stop whining about the criminal who got away because she is just hurting his feelings and after all - he is a white brother!"
This makes me very angry. I made no such comment and it is not honest to make such comparison. People are treated by me the way they act towards me. If you persist in distorting what I say useful dialog is not possible.
Perun, No one said any race is monolith. European unity has nothing to do with you, or anyone, giving up heritage and I object to such very strongly. What it means is that we recognize and respect the great diversify of the nations of Europa. It means knowing that our race is hurt by European wide wars and that if we want to preserve our cultures we must stop making other Europeans out as unhuman like some here are prone to do. We should look to the example of those that bring Europeans together to resist alien invasion in the past.
You talk of endless fighting within other races and I say that such things hurt them. Again, if we look to racialism as a positive thing that can reduce conflict, help separation which brings cultural renewal. In truth, I will say that other races are much less hurt by endless conflict as they have things we don't. Other races have homelands of there own and do not face the problems of miscegenation, alien migration, low birth rates and feminism. Not worrying about those things means they have very large populations and can afford far more lose of life then we can. The nations of Europa do not have such luxuries but we do have the very real problem of other races taking our lands and endless fighting gives those other races and nations better chances to destroy us.
No one will say that boarder problems will not exist as long as our nations do as such is child like. When one has taken back his nation and ended foreign influence one can then talk of getting back lost land. As modern war is very expensive in terms of lives and economy I would say that such disputes should be settled by democratic means for those in disputed areas. Making that possible shows to me the need for Europeans to understand and respect each other and know that the global situation no longer permits us the option of spending millions of lives seeking to bring back empires by force but instead we should think in terms of Imperiums as F.P. Yockney and others have and do.
2003-09-07 00:07 | User Profile
BjarniTyrdal,
Thank you for writing that. No one that I can see said anything about giving up one's culture and heritage. I certainly don't wish to see that. Some of us understand that organizations whether it be the E.U. or NAFTA are the deaths of our nations because of the cultural aspects just as much as the sort of wars that wracked Europe in the 20th Century because these are nation destroying agreements. I note this too, that today it is the Neo-cons and their like minded counterparts in Europe that try to dress the so-called "war on terror" as another version of WW II even to the point of comparing Iraq to the North African campaign. I don't doubt for one minute that they will try this stunt again if they get a chance. After all, here is an opportunity to kill off more of the folks that would oppose them and do it in a manner that they would profit from.
The other things you point out are equally true. I think that you have said it all and said it well.
2003-09-07 02:47 | User Profile
**What I say is that you look over is that I believe it is pointless at best to talk about retaking territory and rebuilding long dead empires when you have no sovereignty, your culture is dying, your nation is run by jews and enemies of your people and you face extinction. **
I have to somewhat disagree here on one point. Yes the White race is declining in numbers, but I doubt we're going extinct. Why not? Simple, we're too valuable to the Jews. The Jews are parasites, and like anyother parasite it is not in their interest to kill off their food-source. Because by killing off their food source, the parasite has nothing to live off and it itself becomes extinct.
Hear me, if the white race actually became extinct, what race is going to replace us? Most likely the Arabs would replace us as the major race in Europe, and we all know how Arabs feel about Jews. So I think the Jews want to reduce our numbers to a managable state, but I doubt they want our complete destruction. Otherwise, the Jews themselves will soon become extinct afterwards.
If we want an example of what I'm talking about, just read Exodus. The Egyptians enslaved the Israelites(whether or not they were Jews I'm not going there) but the Egyptians didn't want to exterminate them. However, when the Israelites started having too many babies, Pharaoh would send in troops to kill off the new-borns.
Even in the movie "the Ten Commandments" when a general calls on Pharoah to kill all the Israelites, Pharaoh replies "Slaves are wealth commander. The more slaves we have the more bricks we make". Even Moses makes a smiliar remark to Pharaoh when he saids that cities are made of bricks "the strong make many, the starving make few. The dead make none!"
I believe the Jews have a similar attitude towards whites; the more white slaves, the more wealth we can steal from them. However, if the white race completely dies off, then the Jews have practically killed off their main source of wealth to steal. I doubt the Jews are that stupid. Without Gentile wealth and protection, Israel will be no more. It will be overruned easily by the Arabs. So the Jews know that without us white folks, the Jews are finished!
We can even see this with how Sparta dealt with the Helots. The Spartans will send troops in to kill off large numbers of Helots, but the Helots were too valuable to the Spartans for them to exterminate the Helots. Even with the enslavement of Blacks, the slave traders would litterally pour food down the :afro: throat whenever they refused to eat just because they were simply too valuable to them.
So my main point here is that I doubt the Jews want our complete extinction, they just want to reduce our numbers to managable state. Otherwise their own race faces extinction as well!
Now onto BjarniTyrdal's other point. I respect your viewpoint on European unity, and I do agree with you to a point. I'm just saying that ethnic infighting will never completely disappear, but it can be limited. Much like sin, it can be reduced but never fully eliminated. Human nature just doesn't allow that.
Now what you described about how Whites no longer have a homeland and our continent of Europe is being overruned with foreign races. I have to say this falls well into John Lukacs theory that the modern age is coming to an end and that a new dark age(or age of barbarism) is at hand. I agree with this and indeed we are facing similar situations that Europe faced during the Dark Ages(although not per se). We're once again being invaded by foreign races like the Arabs and the Asiatic nomads(Huns and later Mongols), and Christianity is once again in danger of being conquered by Islam. And like during the Dark Ages, Europe's population dropped significantly(especially with the Black Death). It took several centuries to fully liberate Europe from the Mongols and Muslim invadors to the South in Spain. The Church often faced corrupted officials, even to the point that one Pope had a bad habit of fondling women. Families would assasinate each other to name their relatives Pope. Heretical beliefs and sects swept throughout Europe. So Europe has faced this before, and I'm somewhat optimistic(though not blindly) that Europe will face down this new but similar threat. Some territory will be given up to the enemy(like was Spain and parts of Italy), but in the end we will win. And I guess it will take another Charles Martell and/or Charlamene to first halt the advance(in the West at least). See il Rango, studying History is very much relevant to today's world!
However, even during this time there was much infighting among Europe's powers. There was infighting between the Catholic and Orthodox churches, to the point that Latin crusaders looted Constantipole during the Crusades. Yet Europe still survived and even triumphed! This is not to glorify infighting or anything, in many instances during the Dark Ages(by that I'm mostly talking around 500-1000 AD, but I do make references to the Medieval period which was far more stable a period) that infighting caused weakness, particularly in France(where feudal lords owed little if any loyalty to the King and allowed England to conquer parts of France). However, Europe still survived. So infighting to some extent is inevitable, but neither is it automatically devastating to us. I'm not making judgements based solely on the past, but history does tend to repeat itself. Do you get what I'm saying? If not, just politely say so and I'll try to explain it more simply.
2003-09-07 03:50 | User Profile
Originally posted by perun1201@Sep 6 2003, 21:47 * *[I guess it will take another Charles Martell and/or Charlamene to first halt the advance(in the West at least). **
Unfortunately, a modern day Charles Martel will face a much more difficult situation than did the original "Hammer". The current invasion of Europe is not of an alien army, as in the 8th century, but a stealth invasion by an alien people. If there is to be another Battle of Tours, it will be a political battle.
That battlefield will be bloodier (at least with political blood) and more treacherous than the one where the Saracens were stopped because Europe (and that includes America) is divided against itself. Europeans were united in rejecting the invaders in 732. But now? Charles Martel would be charged with a hate crime.
2003-09-07 03:56 | User Profile
Originally posted by Fernando Wood+Sep 6 2003, 21:50 -->
QUOTE (Fernando Wood @ Sep 6 2003, 21:50 ) <!--QuoteBegin-perun1201@Sep 6 2003, 21:47 * *[I guess it will take another Charles Martell and/or Charlamene to first halt the advance(in the West at least). ** Unfortunately, a modern day Charles Martel will face a much more difficult situation than did the original "Hammer". The current invasion of Europe is not of an alien army, as in the 8th century, but a stealth invasion by an alien people. If there is to be another Battle of Tours, it will be a political battle.
That battlefield will be bloodier (at least with political blood) and more treacherous than the one where the Saracens were stopped because Europe (and that includes America) is divided against itself. Europeans were united in rejecting the invaders in 732. But now? Charles Martel would be charged with a hate crime. **
There were large migrations of peoples into Europe during the Dark Ages. Many of these people had some impact on Europe for some time but then were swept off the map. Most famous example were the Huns(not during the Dark Ages but you get the idea). The migrations maybe not have been as large as today, but that maybe because we have a larger world population.
Need we forget Joan of Arc was burned as a witch for claiming that God told her to free France! So again we do find some similarities between now and the Dark ages, although like I said earlier not direct carbon copies. Even many mainstream "experts" are saying how we're entering a new high tech feudal age.
Fernando Wood
2003-09-07 04:33 | User Profile
Originally posted by perun1201@Sep 6 2003, 22:56 * ** Even many mainstream "experts" are saying how we're entering a new high tech feudal age.*
For an expression of this idea in the mainstream press, see the article in the current issue (October 2003) of THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY:
"Feudal Gestures: Why the Middle Ages Are Something We Can Still Look Forward To" by Cullen Murphy (pp.135-137)
I agree with you that whites will not become extinct, and that Europe has experienced mass migrations in the past. However, many of these migrant peoples, such as the Goths and early Slavs, were Caucasians. Their settlement in Europe helped make it what it is.
You're right, leaders such as St. Joan paid a terrible price, but their sacrifices did produce victory. If I read you correctly, you're cautiously optimistic. I am, too, but I can't shake the suspicion that I'm "whistling past the graveyard".
Hilaire Belloc
2003-09-07 04:54 | User Profile
I agree with you that whites will not become extinct, and that Europe has experienced mass migrations in the past. However, many of these migrant peoples, such as the Goths and early Slavs, were Caucasians. Their settlement in Europe helped make it what it is.
Yes I understand that. However there were non-white migrations like the Arabs and Asian nomads into Europe. And I do believe even some Blacks came too(mostly came with Arabs). Then the Gypsies came from Asia, and of course who can forget the Jews. But getting back to the white migrations, to the people back then these people were as barbarian as any non-white. To many Europeans there was no difference between the muslim Arab and the pagan Viking. Now I'm not arguing that nordic people are barbarians or anything, but many whites back then did feel that way.
It's kinda like how the Chinese viewed the Mongols as savage barbarians, yet they're both of the same race. Yet interesting Chinese scholars at the time always tried to protray them as some foreign race, which sounds ridiculas to us today. Not implying that we're somehow smarter than people back then, just how it is(in fact I think we're about as stupid and dumb as people back in the middle ages were, maybe even stupider).
** You're right, leaders such as St. Joan paid a terrible price, but their sacrifices did produce victory. **
As will us in time. Need we forget Christian martyrdom didn't produce real victories for some time yet in the end they triumphed!
** If I read you correctly, you're cautiously optimistic. I am, too, but I can't shake the suspicion that I'm "whistling past the graveyard".**
I understand. My personal view is somewhat based on Spengler a little. In that Europe and the White race is in decline, but for the time being. The White Race will go through a new dark age, and indeed maybe weakened and enslaved to an extent. But that is not to say that we won't rise again and reclaim our glory! You see this in the history of all civilizations of decline and rebirth. Take Russia for example, Russia was so weak at the hands of the Mongols that our Prince had to feed the Mongol rulers' horse with his crown! Yet slowly and surely we regained strength and threw them out!
China was a strong civilization untill crippled by almost two and half centuries of civil war(the warring states period) yet it was reunited and became a world power again. It was once again later conquered by the Mongols, but after a few centuries threw them out and thrived. In the 20th century alone, China was terribly weakened and divided by the Europeans and later by warlords. Yet China was reunited and became a world power.
So yes, Europe and Western civilization maybe in decline, but that is not to say it's permenant. But like our ancestors during the Dark Ages, we may have to go through some real serious :dung: before a new Renaisance begins! Although luckily history seems to move faster these days, so our modern dark age may not be as long as the first one. So I'm somewhat both a pessimist and a optimist for the future.