← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Hilaire Belloc
Thread ID: 9443 | Posts: 9 | Started: 2003-09-01
2003-09-01 11:15 | User Profile
** [url=http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/10803_terror.html]http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387...803_terror.html[/url]
Wary Criticisms 09/01/2003 14:05 Unpopularity with America and its policies, anti-Bush feelings and anti-US sentiment at large has been a widespread problem for that country globally for some time now
And yet, ironically, it is a problem that a sizeable chunk of that very same country-s population is seemingly largely unconcerned about.
Reflected here is a nation that has become arguably more polarized and isolationist post 9-11 in what some would describe as a response based upon building even higher and taller walls to protect itself rather then dismantling the ones currently in existence with a view to reaching out.
Worrying then is not just the validity of much of the criticism aimed at the current US administration for its management of a situation that seems to be growing increasingly messy and volatile, but also it has to be said, the growing chasm of misunderstanding that has developed in particular between Americans and Europeans.
In this regard, it is quite likely that both sides are as bad as each other and just as much to blame.
As someone who (like many others) expressed concern over the war in Iraq, I have also, by the same token, being struck at times with the almost palpable lack of understanding that I get from discussion with Europeans on what the American population at large is going through and has been over the last two years.
Often aired from the Left politically is the notion that to understand the roots of terrorism one has to, in turn, understand the roots of an allegedly abusive US foreign policy and perhaps even Imperialism at large too and its effects. Whilst that may well be a valid point, I cannot help but wonder where has the same degree of understanding gone to about American society in their post 9-11 world.
As someone who was in New York City on September 11th, it became all too clear to me afterwards that Europeans simply did not understand the extraordinarily shocking effect that day had upon in citizens.
And whilst that is in no way to attempt to appease what I have been vocal in my criticism of v namely a policy to respond to the problem that has been incompetent on a good day and downright untruthful on a bad one v it is to say that one of the few things I do agree with Tony Blair on is that the need for Europe and the US to work together in unison is far greater then our need to be at odds with each other.
The last two years have been a disturbing time for Americans with knocks and shocks coming at them from all sides v first a presidential election that was possibly the most divisive the nation has seen, then the worst attack the mainland has suffered since Pearl Harbor, followed by a war overseas in Iraq which the public are now increasingly wondering if they should ever have bothered with (a recent Newsweek survey shows 48% polled said they should leave and 60% said cut back on spending), and whilst this is going on and their government is coughing up an estimated $4 billion a week to sustain efforts in Iraq, the economy went into recession and spiraled into such enormous deficit that the US Federal government has been warned about it by a concerned IMF.
The last thing that an already far too culturally isolated nation needs is to feel that it is under assault from all sides causing it to regress inward even further.
Critics of a specific politician or policy should not end up being so vitriolic and general in their attacks as to make it sound as if they are commenting upon an entire people, as to do so will only make them give you the finger and not care anyway about what you think.
The problem exists on both sides of the pond too however.
Equally disturbing was to witness and American population who simply could not get their heads around any degree of comprehension for why European countries like France and Germany were so hell bent of on obstructing what they then deemed was their right to protect themselves against a regime in Iraq that was supporting the same terrorists that had just slaughtered 3000 of their compatriots v at least that was what if felt like at that time anyway.
History has shown us clearly that US foreign policy is by no means something that the rest of the world can trust but at that moment in time, the depth of feeling within America was so great that their was no ability whatsoever to understand the quite reasonable worries that Europeans had about a US military campaign in Iraq.
By the same token, the irony of the fact that both of its opponents since then were ones that it armed and trained itself was one that was largely lost.
An impasse had been created in terms of two entire continents understanding each other. Places that have traditionally stood side by side do not quite do so anymore and it is hard to see how that benefits either of us.
In time of course, economic needs will probably prevail as they often do. Things will be patched up and all will revert back to normal fortunately.
Until then, what is perhaps not so fortunate is that we have to leave it to commercial concerns to save the day here.
In the meantime however, for our part as citizens of wherever, we could at least contribute by setting aside the pre-conceived notions and negative stereotypes and making an effort to understand where each one is coming from a little better. George Bush is not Hitler no matter how many t-shirts we print it on and the French are not cowards no matter how often we rename it Freedom Fries rather than French ones.
We needed each other in the past and most likely we will need each other again in the future.
John Bourke**
What the hell was the point of renaming French fries to Freedom fried anyways. Or places boycotting French wines. They all gave WW2 and DDay as an excuse. Nevermind the fact that the French resistance blew up railroads and bridges across France on June5(the night before DDay) and that help prevent the Germans from sending reinforcements to the beach heads. Even Eisenhower admitted the effectiveness of the French Resistance to the Allied cause. So its not like the French were just bystanders while Americans died in Normandy.
Also those who joke about how many men does it take to defend Paris and answer thats its unknown cause its never been done need to read about the campaign of 1914 when the French halted the German advance towards Paris.
Viva la France!
2003-09-01 21:52 | User Profile
Unfortunately, too many Americans have apathy for Europe, and especially France. They have been spoonfed so much American jingoism for too long for them to form their own opinions.
2003-09-01 22:02 | User Profile
The outpouring of sympathy and condolences after 9/11 was very sincere. Unfortunately, that capital has been squandered in war for sh*tty little country. When/if the next terrorist act happens in the US, there's going to be shadenfreude and the "you deserved it" attitude.
2003-09-02 00:03 | User Profile
Almost two years after the World Trade Center attacks happened, I am reminded of one thing: that Americans truly believe they are superior to everybody else, including Europeans, and that an attack that happened in New York that infamous day could never happen in America. While American troops overseas can assist in Uncle Shmuel's ethnic cleansing in the Middle East and bomb some aspirin plant in Sudan, thinking it was some Arab weapons hideaway, Americans live their usual blase lives while the NWO continues to spread their filth around.
I cannot express the thoughts I have when I continue to see bumper stickers like "United We Stand" and "Support Freedom", along with "Support Our Troops", and the people who wear "FDNY/NYPD" T-shirts and caps. These are examples of the attitudes of the quintessential American in post-9/11/01 America. He continues to wave the flag and worship to the shrines of the fire and police departments, not realizing that his troops are not coming home and that Zionist realities in American political thinking are real, and not reduced to the Media's explanation of that mentality as just extremist rants by "anti-Semites" and "Neo-Nazis". That his negative attitude towards France (and perhaps of all of Europe) is exactly what the American establishment wants.
I have little hope for the future of Americans. They do not want to take a stand against the establishment, in both its leftist and rightist wings, for fear of ostracization. They think putting the stars-and-stripes outside their house is doing their part in promoting "patriotism". They will not call items by their "French" descriptions or consume things native to France, for that is "anti-American". How many Americans know that the Statue Of Liberty was a gift to America from France?? Well, that point is lost on them because as far as any history on the statue is concerned, they only know about that insipid inscription written by Zhidess Emma Lazarus.
2003-09-02 03:08 | User Profile
{Sigh} Did y'all read the other day that that some 167,000 Reservists have been called up to active duty-- and the military STILL doesn't have enough manpower?
Any of you 'of age' males had been get your dresses and lipstick stored up! God forbid Uncle Schmuel should SUCCEED in reinstituting the draft!! :angry:
2003-09-02 11:44 | User Profile
Although the article is not hostile it is a shallow analysis which troubles little with facts and hard data. The author tritely claims European opposition to the Iraqi adventure and Americaââ¬â¢s resulting reaction are just cultural misunderstandings. Nothing is mentioned of the massive outpouring of sympathy post 9/11 or the widespread support for military intervention in Afghanistan. In fact the manner in which the author cuts directly from 9/11 to Gulf War 2 rings alarm bells.
The simple truth is that Europeans have had access to accurate political reporting on the situation and Americans have not (or, more troublingly, have not cared to access such information).
** Critics of a specific politician or policy should not end up being so vitriolic and general in their attacks as to make it sound as if they are commenting upon an entire people, as to do so will only make them give you the finger and not care anyway about what you think.**
True but boo-frigging-hoo. War is not, nor should it be, a form of therapy for a nation in mourning. The world felt Americaââ¬â¢s pain post 9/11 but now it certainly is time to go after ââ¬ËJudeo-Americanââ¬â¢ policy in the most vitriolic terms possible.
2003-09-02 12:27 | User Profile
An interesting thing I've noticed since 9/11 is that many if not most jack-ass drivers in my area always seem to have some bumper sticker saying "I'm proud to be an American", "America- love it or leave it", "God loves/bless America" or some Jingoistic theme. Oh yeah and being an American gives you the right to be an ass on the road? Stupid Yuppies and their SUVs!
Robbie you are so right. One thing that pisses me off about Americans is their total arrogance about themselves, about how great America is even though they never been to another country(or outside the Americanized zones like Cancun). It's one thing to believe your country is the best in the world(what nationalist doesn't think that is some way) it's another thing to be a total jackass about it.
2003-09-02 15:58 | User Profile
A common syndrome Perun; basically there are two kinds of patriots: those who love their nation precisely because it is their nation and those who love it merely for its power. Unsurprisingly folk attracted to SUVs fall into the latter category. Smaller nations tend to substitution a sense of sanctimonious martyrdom in place of macho posturing.
2003-09-03 02:54 | User Profile
*Originally posted by na Gaeil is gile@Sep 2 2003, 09:58 * ** A common syndrome Perun; basically there are two kinds of patriots: those who love their nation precisely because it is their nation and those who love it merely for its power. Unsurprisingly folk attracted to SUVs fall into the latter category. Smaller nations tend to substitution a sense of sanctimonious martyrdom in place of macho posturing. **
Exactly. Yuppie "patriotism" makes me puke! These people are jokes as far as patriotism goes! Their idea of freedom is the freedom to drive SUVs whenever they want and not have to pay attention to other peoples' needs.
I forgot who said it, but somebody correctly termed SUVs as "axles of evil". haha get it? :lol: