← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Gott
Thread ID: 9314 | Posts: 46 | Started: 2003-08-26
2003-08-26 22:28 | User Profile
It has not worked for me for the last few days. It is the Forum or is it my computer?
2003-08-27 01:47 | User Profile
The Forum.
2003-08-27 02:51 | User Profile
I'm surprised people still admit they patronize that sewer...
2003-08-27 03:12 | User Profile
Well, I tried to access the site to answer Gott's question. I don't darken the doorway there. It is a total sewer.
2003-08-27 03:23 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Bardamu@Aug 26 2003, 20:12 * ** Well, I tried to access the site to answer Gott's question. I don't darken the doorway there. It is a total sewer. **
Bardamu, yes I know, I should have quoted the first poster.
2003-08-27 04:19 | User Profile
Nobody told me it was down. In an article today at Overthrow, Bill White says it got hacked and he is going to repair it, possibly soon.
VNN Forum is new and hasn't found a real identity yet. The sewer you might be thinking of is Stormfront.
2003-08-27 06:04 | User Profile
I will admit that a few very bright and worth while posters are to be found at Storm Front but frankly, they are out numbered 100 to 1 by hollywood nazis, freaks and gossipers with nothing to say. The forum is clearly run by and for very maringal cliques and I have never posted over there. I view the VNN forum the same way. What little of value exists on those board is so overwhelmed with worthless crap that it's frankly to much of a hassle to bother with so I don't.
2003-08-27 06:11 | User Profile
Out of sincere interest and because as this board's administrator I like to keep an open mind in order to learn and hopefully make this place more successful, I wonder if any of you would expand upon your comments on why you have not enjoyed time spent at the vnn board?
Admittedly I have never really taken an in-depth look at the dynamics there, but I thought that the place was growing by leaps and bounds and looked to be very successful in accomodating their particular niche. What's the real story and the cause for the disaffection stated here from members whom I admittedly thought would really enjoy that kind of board culture?
2003-08-27 06:43 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Aug 27 2003, 00:11 * ** Out of sincere interest and because as this board's administrator I like to keep an open mind in order to learn and hopefully make this place more successful, I wonder if any of you would expand upon your comments on why you have not enjoyed time spent at the vnn board?
Admittedly I have never really taken an in-depth look at the dynamics there, but I thought that the place was growing by leaps and bounds and looked to be very successful in accomodating their particular niche. What's the real story and the cause for the disaffection stated here from members whom I admittedly thought would really enjoy that kind of board culture? **
I have no time for vulgar racism. I am a White Nationalist, and I am concerned with preserving our Occidental heritage and customs...I am also staunchly opposed to Jewish influence in our government...and I am highly sympathetic to Yockey's brand of National Socialism.
That said, I have no use for vulgar racists who like to use the internet as a medium with which to spew out sociopathic rants about mass murder, irrational hatred, and profanity. The VNN forum, IMO, caters to the lowest common denominator of angry adolescents, socially retarded malcontents, and low brow racists who are not capable of understanding the ideological foundation(s) of White Nationalism. If I did not know better, I would think that the VNN website and forum was a Jewish propaganda effort designed to portray racially aware whites as a pack of dejected perverts, thugs, and ignorant rabble.
Not too mention the fact that the "news" presented on VNN is op-ed tripe that is so chock full of self-referencing inside jokes that no casual reader can even decipher it. People like Linder live in a tiny, self-contained fantasy world in which they cast themselves as important political figures and presume knowledge on the part of casual readers...as if a casual reader knows who the f*ck Kevin Strom is when Linder writes one of his bi-weekly rants against him.
People like Linder, as well as the Stormfron.org crew, wonder why whites are not rallying around their "cause" en masse when the aforementioned cretins spend there time fighting one another within their tiny clique, and creating forums where they can argue the "issues of the day" such as: "Is Bill White an ADL informant?"
"Why does ShopWhite carry
James Bond films?"
and my personal favorite (drum roll):
"When we take over the entire world (all 125 of us)...should we send the Puerto Ricans to madigascar, or deport them to Mexico?"
I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk.
Linder, Hale, Metzger, Strom, Butler are a bunch of work-shy rejects. I've got a suggestion for these clowns: GET A JOB. Then maybe you can effect real positive change in your community.
I wanted to help my own people...so I got educated and I found the best job that I could. I didn't move back in with my parents, become a social pariah, start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations so that I can afford to buy groceries.
Sorry for the rant.
You are doing a great job, TexasDissident. This is a fine board. I feel like I have found a home here amidst the likes of Triskelion, Leland Gaunt, Zvaci, and all of the rest of you. I consider you all to be comrades in arms on the intellectual (and sometimes actual) battlefield in which we find ourselves.
2003-08-27 06:58 | User Profile
Hello TD,
I never used VNN's forum but I read it semi-regularly. Basically, the VNN forum was filled to the brim with people endlessly moaning about Storm Front (sort of like SFOL was filled withe people endlessly moaning about Free Republic) and endless gossip that had no real evidence to back it up that mattered to no one outside of the highly disfunctional "white power" scene in the states. Plenty of the posters did nothing but spew gutteral hatred and mindless sloganeering which is boring and doomed to go no where. While it's better then the pathetic Resistance forum I simply don't have the time or desire to read over a hundred posts to find one worth reading and I don't recall seeing a single worth while debate.
However, I assume that when VNN forum goes back up it will continue to grow by leaps and bounds because of the rampant suppression of all but a very narrow range of opinions at SF (which I am not wild about either). I think that given another year of growth VNN forums will have a few decent posters and the "garbage to gold ratio" may drop to a mere 20 to 1 making it worth looking at from time to time.
What is problematic with this board is the trolls that make worth while exchanges right hard. The worst are Rban and Ares but Raina and Godless Capitialist were even worse but thankfully they seemed to have left. Other then that, the "vent and moan" element is too heavy here but that's the nature of public forums.
2003-08-27 13:12 | User Profile
The level of gutter language was over my limit at VNN. I also had this hinkie feeling that many of the posters were putting on an act. A crowd of them moved around together and attacked together most suspiciously. Besides the crudity and general stupidity, I got the impression that a bunch of Jews were tag teaming up and down the forum encouraging the baser element and giving the infighting threads lots of life. OD is vulnerable, and I hope that TD isn't too nice a guy when this stuff comes down the road. I am convinced OD should ban Rban and probably the other one too. There is a critical mass with these guys. All there has to be are a few of them, working in concert, to disrupt the forum. Cut 'em off at the pass. :gun:
2003-08-27 13:27 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Walter E Kurtz@Aug 27 2003, 00:43 * ** [ **
"Is Bill White an ADL informant?", "Why does ShopWhite carry James Bond films?" and my personal favorite (drum roll): "When we take over the entire world (all 125 of us)...should we send the Puerto Ricans to madigascar, or deport them to Mexico"
Other than the mexico comment, questions 1 and 2 are viable questions. Q#1 is a question that can pretty much be asked about every person you come into contact with on a message board, and esp. with someone like Bill White whose past is "checkered" to say the least. Q#2 should be self evident. For a website so ardantly against jews established in hollywood or anywhere, why would they sell the trash back to their own supporters? Not all posts on OD here are of the uber-intellectual variety.
"I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk."
Career politicians and media mouths, with the absolute exception of MacDonald. All of those fellas can't even name the jew, again, except MacDonald. If you're not naming the jew then you simply miss the point. What do these guys do for work? Do you think any of them have done a day of good old manual labor in their life?
"start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations ."
Off the rack suits, jeez, maybe that's why you like Francis, Pat, Taylor. Clothes obviously make the man.....
Anyhow, my ultimate point is that there isn't anybody out there with what it takes to pull us out of the hole we are in.
2003-08-27 13:52 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Aug 27 2003, 06:11 * ** Out of sincere interest and because as this board's administrator I like to keep an open mind in order to learn and hopefully make this place more successful, I wonder if any of you would expand upon your comments on why you have not enjoyed time spent at the vnn board?
**
So far there's a lot of people there who disrupt the reasonable posters, which tends to chase them off.
There were a couple interesting threads that were totally mangled by either the Christian Identity nutters or their radical pagan counterparts. As soon as they start their flame war the productive comments cease.
My guess is there are still lots of Stormfront posters wanting to make VNN a sort of backup forum. If that happens, VNN Forum won't add up to anything because intelligent posters will stay away. This might still be growing pains, IMO.
It still can work out if smart people like Kievsky hold firm or at least keep a hand in. We need whatever resources we can get and VNN Forum can still become a reasonable WN gathering place.
Or maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist. :)
2003-08-27 16:48 | User Profile
The VNN board is a disappointment. But I love VNN the site. I wouldn't put Alex Linder in the same category as Matt Hale. He writes with fingers afire, says what needs to be said and inspires us to action. "Vulgar," it's worth noting, is derived from Latin, "the people." Linder's not vulgar in that sense, not even close. If anything, he's too far above "the people."
What I like about OD, Tex, is the consistent quality of the posts. Most who post here are earnestly and sincerely concerned about what is befalling the White west. They are usually pretty learned and have intelligent comments to add --- light on the "lol", if you will. I know I can come to OD and ask about Jews in the Soviet Union and Russia and get historically informed answers. I sense that the OD boys are likely to have jobs, families, and other responsibilities. There are differences about what to do about our plight, but they are thoroughly debated.
In other words, it's a good range.
2003-08-27 17:05 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ragnar@Aug 26 2003, 22:19 * The sewer you might be thinking of is Stormfront.*
I resent that, but you are entitled to your opinion.
2003-08-27 18:21 | User Profile
"That said, I have no use for vulgar racists who like to use the internet as a medium with which to spew out sociopathic rants about mass murder, irrational hatred, and profanity. The VNN forum, IMO, caters to the lowest common denominator of angry adolescents, socially retarded malcontents, and low brow racists who are not capable of understanding the ideological foundation(s) of White Nationalism. If I did not know better, I would think that the VNN website and forum was a Jewish propaganda effort designed to portray racially aware whites as a pack of dejected perverts, thugs, and ignorant rabble."
Mr. Kurtz,
Though I've never visited the VNN forum, Your impression of it is not much lower than my impression of Strormfront forum, which I had participated in for awhile. I understand your frustration.
We need all the help we can get and these angry adolescents need our guidance. They, in part, are our future. You were probably an angry adolescent once, I sure was.
As I stated before, the participants on this forum appear to have an average IQ of about 15 points higher than the Stormfront forum. Don't we have a duty to take turns being the voice of reason and steering those kids in the right direction? Who knows, one of them may grow up to be a Kevin MacDonald clone.
2003-08-27 21:33 | User Profile
I'm not that experianced in the online Nationalist scene, but I can say that I am impressed with OD. I have visited Stormfront and VNN, and except for maybe a few topics once and while, it's not impressive. I find them good when I need a real good laugh, usually at the stupidity demonstrated there. I do agree that Stormfront seems to conform more towards the Hollywood version of WN.
A good example was the "greatest classical composer" topic on Stormfront. Almost everybody there voted for Wagner, and everybody was talking about how Wagner was the greatest ever. Not that Wagner is terrible, but common! I thought it was an interesting topic and posted a similar one here. There was far more diversity in the voting and opinions. I believe Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart recieved the most votes. There was also much more intellectually charged discussion on the topic, well except for Rban's comments about how I should've put a Hindu composer on the poll.
There seems to be more diversity of opinions here. Different religious and political points of view have been expressed here, in many ways disproving the notion we all think alike and lack intellectual abilities. I've probally noticed more diversity of opinions here than I've seen in even more left-wing orientated forums.
So Tex, good job and I hope it continues this way. :th:
I dunno, maybe our high intellects drives many of the idiots away because what we talk about here is usually so over their heads! :lol:
2003-08-27 22:08 | User Profile
Travis,
Thanks for the meaningful post. It seems to me that people should address the sort of people they feel closest to. Certainly, I feel a bit closer to working class and struggling middle class people then the professional classes inspite of my background. Certainly reaching those abandoned and abused by the current system is importaint. I have a decent article from VNN on the subject which i'll post and add a bit to.
2003-08-27 22:48 | User Profile
*Originally posted by perun1201@Aug 27 2003, 15:33 * ** I'm not that experianced in the online Nationalist scene, but I can say that I am impressed with OD. I have visited Stormfront and VNN, and except for maybe a few topics once and while, it's not impressive. I find them good when I need a real good laugh, usually at the stupidity demonstrated there. I do agree that Stormfront seems to conform more towards the Hollywood version of WN.
I dunno, maybe our high intellects drives many of the idiots away because what we talk about here is usually so over their heads! :lol: **
I'm getting a few good laughs myself, Perun. Thanks.
2003-08-28 01:57 | User Profile
The VNN Forum bcame swamped with knuckle-dragging Stormfront-types. That is the problem. It needs a good moderator, that's all.
I actually thank Tex for keeping OD riff-raff free. It is a place where paleos can be influenced by, but not turned off by, white nationalism. Very important. I will bet that I myself have reached many wayward paleos at OD -- both lurkers and reg'lar folk. :)
2003-08-28 04:55 | User Profile
Originally posted by M1488D+Aug 27 2003, 07:27 -->
QUOTE* (M1488D @ Aug 27 2003, 07:27 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Walter E Kurtz@Aug 27 2003, 00:43 * ** [ ** "Is Bill White an ADL informant?", "Why does ShopWhite carry James Bond films?" and my personal favorite (drum roll): "When we take over the entire world (all 125 of us)...should we send the Puerto Ricans to madigascar, or deport them to Mexico"
Other than the mexico comment, questions 1 and 2 are viable questions. Q#1 is a question that can pretty much be asked about every person you come into contact with on a message board, and esp. with someone like Bill White whose past is "checkered" to say the least. Q#2 should be self evident. For a website so ardantly against jews established in hollywood or anywhere, why would they sell the trash back to their own supporters? Not all posts on OD here are of the uber-intellectual variety.
"I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk."
Career politicians and media mouths, with the absolute exception of MacDonald. All of those fellas can't even name the jew, again, except MacDonald. If you're not naming the jew then you simply miss the point. What do these guys do for work? Do you think any of them have done a day of good old manual labor in their life?
"start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations ."
Off the rack suits, jeez, maybe that's why you like Francis, Pat, Taylor. Clothes obviously make the man.....
Anyhow, my ultimate point is that there isn't anybody out there with what it takes to pull us out of the hole we are in. **
I'll adress this point by point:
1) Bill White is a nobody...he is a jackass "college revolutionary" who entertains fantasies the he is a relevant political figure. The man is not even worth talking about...he is a reject who uses the internet like the rejects of olde used public access cable. He has nothing better to do than promote himself on fringe websites. I don't give a sh*t what Bill White does or does not do. If a truly nationalist movement comes to fruition in America, it will not involve clowns like Bill White.
2) How are Taylor, Sobran, and Buchanan "career politicians"? Buchanan has not helped himself politically by attacking the NWO and cultural Marxism...and for the record, Buchanan does name the Jew. I refer you to the March edition of "American Conservative" that features the cover story entitled "Whose War?" You have much to learn about politics and persuasion. You do not persuade large numbers of people by using alarmist language and "outing" the Jew in an open and notorious manner...you give the public the unreported facts and they draw reasonable inferences and ultimately reach the Truth. Furthermore, Buchanan is best-selling author. His book "Death of the West" was on the NY Times best-seller list for several weeks. Books such as this cultivate a racial consciousness amongst apathetic whites. Sam Francis lost his job on account of his WN sympathies, and Sobran has been blacklisted because he names the Jew on a daily basis. These are not the actions of career politicians. Furthermore, it matters not that the aforementioned individuals have not toiled away as manual laborers. Buchanan is a journalist, best-selling author, and he served two President' administrations. Sobran and Francis are both career journalists. Juxtapose this with Matt Hale: Unemployed. Richard Butler: Unemployed and senile. Kevin Strom: No idea what this guy does. Tom Metzger: TV fix it man.
3) Clothes may not "make the man", but professionalism is the order of the day. Case in point is Nick Griffin. The BNP has become a viable opposition party because Griffin conducts himself professionally...he does not parade around in uniforms like some queer festishist clown.
4) I agree that there is nobody who is going to "pull us out of the hole that we are in". However, I do believe that as whites become increasingly dispossesed, a racial consciousness will cultivate itself...and later, political action.
friedrich braun
2003-08-28 06:19 | User Profile
SF is a gigantic board and the quality of the posts varies accordingly. I find the SF moderators very good, especially JJT (a physicist and good cyber-friend) and MuadDib (knows the Jew as well as anyone on OD).
I used to think that SF was over moderated, but then I saw what was happening to VNNforumââ¬Â¦I quickly lost interest. VNNforum is in need of solid moderation; otherwise the entire thing will eventually collapse. ââ¬ÅAntisââ¬Â ought to be corralled off to a specific section (this has been effectively done at SF); right now they just run amok and sabotage good threads.
I usually visit VNN to read Linder's essays, and don't bother with the forum.
WN is a ââ¬Åbroad tentââ¬Â and it ought to remain thus.
jack_boot
2003-08-28 12:02 | User Profile
Walter Kurtz, in his post above, speaks for me as well on several points.
To clarify one other point, Kevin Strom is a writer, editor and radio spokesman; recently he was the archivist for Revilo P. Oliver.
And I appreciate Friedrich Braun's remarks; Stormfront is the most popular and most successful of the WN internet watering holes. We do our best to keep it looking nice, and still let everybody have his say. Criticize all you like.
triskelion
2003-08-28 17:00 | User Profile
We do our best to keep it looking nice, and still let everybody have his say. Criticize all you like.
Storm Front has kicked scores of people out for disagreeing with long time posters or moderators. They regularly kick people out simply because of personality conflicts when none of the forum rules were broken. That kind of things has happened so often it's silly. At Storm Front, crticism of the NA, the Creators, David Duke or Don Black will get you kicked off even if the complaints are well founded. If you wish to say that something is radically wrong with those groups/people you will likely be censored or banned no matter how well reasoned your position. I don't go their because the vast majority of threads and posters have nothing to say, it's very clique-ish and heavily censored.
Storm Front is far better then VNN forum which is worthless but niether is worth the hassle associated with them.
prozak
2003-08-28 22:35 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Aug 27 2003, 00:11 * ** Out of sincere interest and because as this board's administrator I like to keep an open mind in order to learn and hopefully make this place more successful, I wonder if any of you would expand upon your comments on why you have not enjoyed time spent at the vnn board?
Admittedly I have never really taken an in-depth look at the dynamics there, but I thought that the place was growing by leaps and bounds and looked to be very successful in accomodating their particular niche. What's the real story and the cause for the disaffection stated here from members whom I admittedly thought would really enjoy that kind of board culture? **
It was growing by leaps and bounds.
Here's my thought on VNNforum: VNN attracts the people who have options in life, that is to say, have succeeded, but are also attracted to traditionalist politics (nationalism/naturalism). This offends and upsets the closet Nazis, "hate" types, some skins, etc. etc. who normally patronize WN/WP forums.
The reason is that the clubhouse is being torn apart. Extremism gives people a social group and lets them off the hook; in their view, their outlook is so extreme that they'll never bond with mainstream society. The newer forces - college-educated, successful, but still politically dissident - on VNN mortally upset these people because they aren't extremists... they'd rather achieve real-world successes.
VNNforum is in fact one of the few WN/WP forums I can visit anymore. Stormfront went out the window some years ago, Resistance is flooded with angry kiddeez, and most of the others have vanished as did www.racialistforums.com.
Not to plug my own situation, but the bbs.anus.com forum is finally reaching a state of some "maturity" with these issues. I like this forum (original dissent) quite a bit - I think there's a nice balance here and intellectual prowess is prized not combatted.
Other options:
[url=http://www.heathenfront.org/forum/]http://www.heathenfront.org/forum/[/url] [url=http://www.whitedate.org/]http://www.whitedate.org/[/url] [url=http://pub86.ezboard.com/fgeniusnewsfrm1]http://pub86.ezboard.com/fgeniusnewsfrm1[/url]
More "of us" are gathering at places like these to provide an option to being a liberal:
[url=http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php]http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php[/url] [url=http://www.sciforums.com/]http://www.sciforums.com/[/url] [url=http://pub50.ezboard.com/baxisofjustice]http://pub50.ezboard.com/baxisofjustice[/url]
MadScienceType
2003-08-28 23:29 | User Profile
the bbs.anus.com forum is finally reaching a state of some "maturity"...
[img]http://kom.net/~wntrmute/img/butthead.jpg[/img]
You said "anus."
Huhuhhuhuhhuh...huhuh...huhhuhuhuhuh.
No, but seriously, I think your post brings up some very good points. Some people are attracted to WN because they're misfits, misanthropes, like the negative attention or what have you (and today, any form of white racialism pretty much guarantees marginalization, perfect for the budding sociopath) but really couldn't care that much about results, since that means effort and it'll interfere with booze time and breaking stuff. Still, even hard-core misanthropes need to fit in somewhere, right? I would guess that you hit the nail on the head.
I admit, I dipped my toes in the kiddie pool over there, but came back here due to all the flying feces, pool toys and temper tantrums.
Even VNN itself is getting a bit stale lately because I think Alex is getting caught up in the vendetta against the NA and Strom. Personally, I wish he'd forget about them. I suspect Alex was casting covetous eyes on the media assets they possess (and that he sees as underutilized or downright wasted), but may be more than a little irritated that it didn't go his way, hence all the invective back and forth. It's his website and I'm sure he'll run as he sees fit, but I hope all this doesn't become a terminal distraction. Heck, if even a quarter of the NA rumors are true, in a year's time, Alex will be able to pick up the NA's media assets at pennies on the dollar: they'll be flat broke from lack of members.
Gott
2003-08-28 23:37 | User Profile
I'm afraid that something very sad is happening to Alex Linder. He was my last hope and with the farce that is going on over there, I've about had it.
He is much, much too good for the grotesque company he is lately keeping. That forum, where really good, smart and interesting people post good, smart and interesting posts amid the garbage is now a joke.
I wonder, with dread, what horrible sht they have over Alex, who was, and I hope with all my heart, still is, our last best hope. Alex - get rid of those sht heads, and now.
Ragnar
2003-08-28 23:56 | User Profile
Gott is correct here. There's been a visible difference at VNN over the past few weeks. While it was always heretical at least it made sense. Lately it's gyrations are becoming senseless and tedious.
The VNN Forum appears to be a wash anyway. It's been UP then DOWN so much now nobody is even checking anymore. It's a fairly good encapsulation of WN right now: Lights on, is anyone home?
The unfortunate part about it is that anyone who ever mentioned that VNN was a ADL or government front is feeling vindicated. Some of us who aired suspicions and hoped we were wrong are just feeling depressed.
MadScienceType
2003-08-29 00:09 | User Profile
He is much, much too good for the grotesque company he is lately keeping.
Those are my feelings as well. Bill White, as (I think) il ragno put it, "gives off Frank Nitti/Roy Cohn vibes." Hear, hear. In short, Alex I trust. White I don't.
It seems clear that Marc Moran and "Jimmy Teuton, Goy Genius" were one and the same person. Several posters on the VNN forum denied this vehemently, claiming to personally know both, but the fact that both disappeared at exactly the same time says more than the forum posters ever could.
I only bring this up because the Moran fiasco appears to have left Alex in a financial lurch and probably necessitated having to launch ShopWhite sooner than was optimal, which also made bedfellows of Alex and Bill White, to the former's detriment, IMO.
Alex says White is trustworthy and says Moran vouched for White also (but who would believe anything Moran said at this point?) but really, what else can he say?
While it was always heretical at least it made sense.
Yeah, that weird article advocating knocking up, then abandoning, as many White "bitches" as possible left a bad taste in my mouth. If it was serious, it was revolting, and if it was in jest, it was in piss-poor taste.
**Some of us who aired suspicions and hoped we were wrong are just feeling depressed. **
Ragnar's right. It's a bummer any way you look at it.
Alex, if you're reading this, some of us are willing to help. PM if you've a mind to.
triskelion
2003-08-29 01:39 | User Profile
I don't see any reason to get depressed about VNN forum. It's toilet, we all know it, lets avoid. I don't see any reason to get depressed about Storm Front. Ignore the legions of idiots on that forum and put up with the censorship if you are so inclined. If not, dump it. VNN publishes lots of insane crap like the article ââ¬Åabout knocking up as white bitches in drive by spermingsââ¬Â which is mindless beneath contempt. The great thing about VNN (the main site rather then the forum) is that anyone that has something worth while to say from a racial perspective can get it published and have it reach a very large audience. If youââ¬â¢re tried reading stupid garbage there simply write a good article like my long term comrade Paul Westman and send it in.
Looking at most racial forums that are operated by Americans I see very little worth while, www.occidentalorigin.com is an exception, and too much energy going into something other then real world activism or addressing serious ideological matters. Those are two things that the vast majority of American racialists and paleo-cons, and the organizations/publications they support, actively seek to avoid.
A lot has been said about the ultra-radical and nihilistic blather by keyboard revolutionaries found at VNN forums and else where but frankly everything I have seen demonstrates to me that all radical politics are afflicted with the same amount and degree of dysfunctional psychopathic freakdom as the ââ¬Ålegions of hateââ¬Â misfits. While it is true that perhaps 10% of the ultra-radical types can be reached and directed into something worth while you should by enlarge ignore them and not make them welcome in any real world or ââ¬Åcyberââ¬Â activities any more then youââ¬â¢d accept a freak like Ares.
In short, if you want to see a change, we all know it needs to happen, then get down the serious matters yourself as ââ¬Åmovement cerebratesââ¬Â wont do it for you.
Hugh Lincoln
2003-08-29 02:15 | User Profile
**Even VNN itself is getting a bit stale lately because I think Alex is getting caught up in the vendetta against the NA and Strom. **
Agreed. When truth-tellers get politcal ambitions, weird stuff starts happening. Oh well. I still love VNN and vote it a force of nature more than a website. I will won't stop checking in and supporting VNN until it dies, a situation that, if it happens, will hopefully find Alex Linder moving on to still bigger and better stuff for White nationalism. I can say this for VNN: if it went offline tomorrow, it would still have changed me and my thinking more than "The Tao of Pooh," Ayn Rand and Russell Kirk's "The Conservative Mind" combined. That's a goddamned lot. My life, and what I intend to do with it, will never be the same. The people close to me know this and have accepted it. Thank God for VNN, even if the editor doesn't believe in the guy in the sky.
Hilaire Belloc
2003-08-29 02:22 | User Profile
I can say this for VNN: if it went offline tomorrow, it would still have changed me and my thinking more than "The Tao of Pooh," Ayn Rand and Russell Kirk's "The Conservative Mind" combined.
What the hell is "the Tao of Pooh" supposed to be about anyway? I always thought it was one of those books that talks about philosophical elements in popular tv shows, like "the D'oh of Homer", "Sienfeld and Philosophy", "the Matrix and Philosophy" and such. Personally I find such books boring and useless.
M1488D
2003-08-29 02:23 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter E Kurtz+Aug 27 2003, 22:55 -->
QUOTE (Walter E Kurtz @ Aug 27 2003, 22:55 )
QUOTE* (M1488D @ Aug 27 2003, 07:27 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Walter E Kurtz@Aug 27 2003, 00:43 * ** [ ** "Is Bill White an ADL informant?", "Why does ShopWhite carry James Bond films?" and my personal favorite (drum roll): "When we take over the entire world (all 125 of us)...should we send the Puerto Ricans to madigascar, or deport them to Mexico"
Other than the mexico comment, questions 1 and 2 are viable questions. Q#1 is a question that can pretty much be asked about every person you come into contact with on a message board, and esp. with someone like Bill White whose past is "checkered" to say the least. Q#2 should be self evident. For a website so ardantly against jews established in hollywood or anywhere, why would they sell the trash back to their own supporters? Not all posts on OD here are of the uber-intellectual variety.
"I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk."
Career politicians and media mouths, with the absolute exception of MacDonald. All of those fellas can't even name the jew, again, except MacDonald. If you're not naming the jew then you simply miss the point. What do these guys do for work? Do you think any of them have done a day of good old manual labor in their life?
"start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations ."
Off the rack suits, jeez, maybe that's why you like Francis, Pat, Taylor. Clothes obviously make the man.....
Anyhow, my ultimate point is that there isn't anybody out there with what it takes to pull us out of the hole we are in. **
I'll adress this point by point:
1) Bill White is a nobody...he is a jackass "college revolutionary" who entertains fantasies the he is a relevant political figure. The man is not even worth talking about...he is a reject who uses the internet like the rejects of olde used public access cable. He has nothing better to do than promote himself on fringe websites. I don't give a sh*t what Bill White does or does not do. If a truly nationalist movement comes to fruition in America, it will not involve clowns like Bill White.
2) How are Taylor, Sobran, and Buchanan "career politicians"? Buchanan has not helped himself politically by attacking the NWO and cultural Marxism...and for the record, Buchanan does name the Jew. I refer you to the March edition of "American Conservative" that features the cover story entitled "Whose War?" You have much to learn about politics and persuasion. You do not persuade large numbers of people by using alarmist language and "outing" the Jew in an open and notorious manner...you give the public the unreported facts and they draw reasonable inferences and ultimately reach the Truth. Furthermore, Buchanan is best-selling author. His book "Death of the West" was on the NY Times best-seller list for several weeks. Books such as this cultivate a racial consciousness amongst apathetic whites. Sam Francis lost his job on account of his WN sympathies, and Sobran has been blacklisted because he names the Jew on a daily basis. These are not the actions of career politicians. Furthermore, it matters not that the aforementioned individuals have not toiled away as manual laborers. Buchanan is a journalist, best-selling author, and he served two President' administrations. Sobran and Francis are both career journalists. Juxtapose this with Matt Hale: Unemployed. Richard Butler: Unemployed and senile. Kevin Strom: No idea what this guy does. Tom Metzger: TV fix it man.
3) Clothes may not "make the man", but professionalism is the order of the day. Case in point is Nick Griffin. The BNP has become a viable opposition party because Griffin conducts himself professionally...he does not parade around in uniforms like some queer festishist clown.
4) I agree that there is nobody who is going to "pull us out of the hole that we are in". However, I do believe that as whites become increasingly dispossesed, a racial consciousness will cultivate itself...and later, political action. **
I do agree that Death of the West might have been an eye-opener, but I still feel that jew must be named. He is behind it all. That is essentially why he is a career politician in my view. That and he doesn't specifically base his platform on the advancement of the White race and returning cultural, mental, political, social etc. sovereignty of this nation and all other White nations to those who it belongs. I feel the pretense of West. Civ. is over used to hide the fact that White men and women built it.
What's wrong with jew? It isn't even slang and only carries negative conotation because of all they have done. What a jewish trap we're in eh. You can't even name your enemy. "Unreported facts" are useless unless you report those involved!!!! It's this inability to speak out, and not mince words, that put us in this hole to begin with.
I also agree Bill White isn't worth mentioning, but he is neck deep in VNN, Shop White, etc. He has also attempted, along with others, to sow discontent towards the NA, and pretty much everything this, dare I say, "movement" is about, mainly White unity. F*ck him, I agree.
I must also agree, I am care nothing for those fools who parade around in costumes whether Klansmen or Nazis. But wait, Rockwell dressed as a Nazi, was open and adamant about the fact that he was Nazi, and led a pretty fair political compaign. I also respect the hell out of him as a man. That was also a different time and I digress. There is no place for that now. What I was aiming my remarks toward was the fact that you mentioned off the rack suits which which I took as an "attack" towards some blue collar guy who can only afford an "off-the-rack" suit. Miscommunication is all.
I am not so sure we have much time to generate racial consciousness. Action is the order of the day. We need someone who speaks for us, only us, and never falters. This leads back to being a career politician. No one travels around speaking to us or even attempting to lead us. If they're not doing that, they're pretty much in it as a professional job-seeker IMHO.
Gott
2003-08-29 18:56 | User Profile
Hugh Lincoln, I feel exactly the same way about VNN and Alex. Probably the biggest single influences on how I see the world and what I'm trying to do about it. I sure hope Alex comes out of this ok.
Bardamu
2003-08-29 22:37 | User Profile
What if Alex is the problem? Except for VNN, he is an unknown quantity. But nary a truer thing was ever said that Alex ought to quit worrying about the NA and look after his own business.
Wayland
2003-08-30 06:34 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 29 2003, 15:31 * > Even VNN itself is getting a bit stale lately because I think Alex is getting caught up in the vendetta against the NA and Strom. Personally, I wish he'd forget about them*
Seconded. Alex needs to do some clean up at VNN, and let the NA take care of itself. I would also like to see him get the membership roles and access to media, but the institutional culture at NA is so corrupt and self-seeking that any contact with them seems toxic for now.
Wintermute**
My, my that's a very serious charge you've laid against these people! Do you have anything to back it up? No? That's what I thought...
You know, when you attack people who are actually doing something, people who have something to show for their efforts, while you yourself have nothing to put forward but a bunch of hot air, it makes you look like the kid who thinks he can boost himself up by putting others down. You clearly know nothing about the NA ([url=http://www.natvan.com]National Alliance[/url]) but that doesn't stop you from repeating every lie you hear about the organization. What would Socrates say? Tsk, tsk...
prozak
2003-08-30 13:20 | User Profile
*Originally posted by MadScienceType@Aug 28 2003, 17:29 * ** 1 - Some people are attracted to WN because they're misfits, misanthropes, like the negative attention or what have you (and today, any form of white racialism pretty much guarantees marginalization, perfect for the budding sociopath) but really couldn't care that much about results, since that means effort and it'll interfere with booze time and breaking stuff. Still, even hard-core misanthropes need to fit in somewhere, right?
2 - Even VNN itself is getting a bit stale lately because I think Alex is getting caught up in the vendetta against the NA and Strom. Personally, I wish he'd forget about them. I suspect Alex was casting covetous eyes on the media assets they possess (and that he sees as underutilized or downright wasted), but may be more than a little irritated that it didn't go his way, hence all the invective back and forth. It's his website and I'm sure he'll run as he sees fit, but I hope all this doesn't become a terminal distraction. Heck, if even a quarter of the NA rumors are true, in a year's time, Alex will be able to pick up the NA's media assets at pennies on the dollar: they'll be flat broke from lack of members. **
1 - Hardcore misanthropes are people who have given up. Give them a reason to not give up, and surprisingly, they drop many of their bad habits. Very few are wholly unredeemable; some are broken and should not breed, but they can be made functional.
2 - Agreed. VNN is moving forward, so it shouldn't spend all its time bagging on the NA. Besides, the NA does some very valuable things, although I think its real problem is obsolescence. Weekend Fuehrers and angry people who have no desire to effect real-world change are obsolete in the WN movement as of about eighteen months ago.
I miss Dr Pierce :(
prozak
2003-08-30 13:25 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Wayland@Aug 30 2003, 00:34 * ** What would Socrates say? Tsk, tsk... **
In my view, Socrates is the worst role model to follow. His "logic" is linear and one-dimensional at best, Jewish at worst. Nietzsche's critique of him is apt.
Howard Campbell, Jr.
2003-08-30 19:43 | User Profile
Originally posted by Bardamu@Aug 29 2003, 16:37 * What if Alex is the problem? Except for VNN, he is an unknown quantity. But nary a truer thing was ever said that Alex ought to quit worrying about the NA and look after his own business.*
VNN's Alex is making many of the same errors made by another earlier WN Webmaster, Alex Curtis.
Let's hope Linder doesn't also allow some provocateur among the Hollywood types to lure him into a COINTELPRO set up.
M1488D
2003-08-31 03:50 | User Profile
The VNN main site doesn't even link to the VNN Board. Typing in the url only brings up an error screen. I think the VNN Board is defunct. These are strange days for WN's.
Texas Dissident
2003-08-31 06:54 | User Profile
*Originally posted by M1488D@Aug 30 2003, 22:50 * ** These are strange days for WN's. **
Strange days have found us And through their strange hours We linger alone Bodies confused Memories misused As we run from the day To a strange night of stone
- Jim Morrison
We're living in a strange time We're working for a strange goal We're turning flesh and body Into Soul
- The Waterboys
Ragnar
2003-09-01 07:28 | User Profile
**The Last Word Anyone Heard --- **
Posted at VNN:
** Subject: vnn forum
8/31/2003
I'm sorry if this is e-mail #8593 on this subject. Tell me what you can about this situation, when you have the time. I saw the recent messages there about struggle between Bill White and whoever he shares domain ownership with. I also saw the "don't trust Bill White" message with what appeared to be a lot of very personal Shopwhite info. Don't know much about Bill except that I'm tired of seeing his name, lauded or reviled. The forum was fun, and I think Shopwhite was a good idea, but ultimately just hope that VNN keeps at it.
Ed Note: *Rest assured, VNN will keep keepin' on. We've got to work out some technical things with the forum so that it will stay up, once we put it up again, despite the various hacks and attacks. ***
il ragno
2003-09-01 11:18 | User Profile
**I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk.
Linder, Hale, Metzger, Strom, Butler are a bunch of work-shy rejects. I've got a suggestion for these clowns: GET A JOB. Then maybe you can effect real positive change in your community.**
Linder stands apart from all the others mentioned. Period. Hugh Lincoln spoke for many of us on this topic earlier in the thread:
**I can say this for VNN: if it went offline tomorrow, it would still have changed me and my thinking more than "The Tao of Pooh," Ayn Rand and Russell Kirk's "The Conservative Mind" combined. That's a goddamned lot. My life, and what I intend to do with it, will never be the same. The people close to me know this and have accepted it. Thank God for VNN, even if the editor doesn't believe in the guy in the sky. **
Best laugh of this thread:
People like Linder live in a tiny, self-contained fantasy world in which they cast themselves as important political figures and presume knowledge on the part of casual readers...as if a casual reader knows who the f*ck Kevin Strom is when Linder writes one of his bi-weekly rants against him.
Since you're so up-to-date on, and intimately acquainted with, that 'fantasy world', I'd say you spend a lot of time in it. Why would you keep visiting a site so obviously beneath you?
The VNN forum needs to be shut down, rethought and then relaunched. I don't even consider the forum to be part of VNN proper.
Howard Campbell, Jr.
2003-09-01 11:29 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Sep 1 2003, 05:18 * > *I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk.
Linder, Hale, Metzger, Strom, Butler are a bunch of work-shy rejects. I've got a suggestion for these clowns: GET A JOB. Then maybe you can effect real positive change in your community.**
Linder stands apart from all the others mentioned. Period. Hugh Lincoln spoke for many of us on this topic earlier in the thread:
**I can say this for VNN: if it went offline tomorrow, it would still have changed me and my thinking more than "The Tao of Pooh," Ayn Rand and Russell Kirk's "The Conservative Mind" combined. That's a goddamned lot. My life, and what I intend to do with it, will never be the same. The people close to me know this and have accepted it. Thank God for VNN, even if the editor doesn't believe in the guy in the sky. **
Best laugh of this thread:
People like Linder live in a tiny, self-contained fantasy world in which they cast themselves as important political figures and presume knowledge on the part of casual readers...as if a casual reader knows who the f*ck Kevin Strom is when Linder writes one of his bi-weekly rants against him.
Since you're so up-to-date on, and intimately acquainted with, that 'fantasy world', I'd say you spend a lot of time in it. Why would you keep visiting a site so obviously beneath you?
The VNN forum needs to be shut down, rethought and then relaunched. I don't even consider the forum to be part of VNN proper.**
Linder's the sharper stylist, for sure. His apprenticeship with Evans, Novak and Mencken-wannabe Bobby Tyrell were well served.
But Spider, how 'bout Alex off the pen? If he's drawn to swagger with Hollywood scum like Roper/Covington he's a COINTELPRO collar waiting for the nab... <_<
il ragno
2003-09-01 12:39 | User Profile
I dropped him a note saying, in effect, 'write off the would-be NA coup as a learning experience, put a clean sheet of paper in the Selectric, and get back to work'. I still think he'll do that, once he gets it out of his system.
I personally think he might have erred in posting the personal info that he did a few weeks ago, as it led to catty remarks like this:
I wanted to help my own people...so I got educated and I found the best job that I could. I didn't move back in with my parents, become a social pariah, start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations so that I can afford to buy groceries.
Let's face it, the type of dues-paying buffoons who, in between polishing their membership cards and attending their local-Unit keggers, think they're 'doing something for their race' by wearing designer threads and not being a 'pariah' are infuriated by Linder's rapid ascension on nothing more than his talent and single-minded dedication. There are a whoooole lot of Salieris out there in the WN world and there's not much to be done about that. Linder, due to both his rhetoric and his lack of big time financial support is in a vulnerable position in that he simply can't afford to nurse grudges for very long. I don't think he fully considered this when he made his bid for the NA, but Strom and Pringle can easier afford to wage a low-level intramural guerrilla war because, at least for now, those dues checks go a long way to subsidize their end of the pissing contest. Whereas Alex - if he continues to return fire as he has - will inevitably steer the SS VNN in the same direction. When you're a one-man band, you have to ruthlessly prune all counterproductive obsessions, no matter how angry you are. I'll admit the past few weeks of VNN leave you scratching your head wiondering "but what happened to the Jews, Alex?"
Frankly, I like VNN because for the most part it stood above the fray of the competing WN groups, keeping the focus squarely where it always should've been: on Hyman and his tools. I thought it was a mistake - a backpedalling - to suddenly climb into the pool with the Stroms, Ropers, Hales, etc. And the alliance with White - who knows? Probably a mistake, but time will tell.
But he's human, too, like the rest of us, and I believe he should be allowed a leeway for mistakes and bad judgments now and then. The road of a lone pariah is a thorny one, fraught with the sort of pressures and alienations that would break lesser men. I'm not 100% enthused with VNN's last 90 days...but in light of its bold, forward-thrusting first 1000 days, I can't help but give Mr Linder a pass. He's too smart to get bogged down for very long; he'll shake this off and steady the course.
However, he needs to shitcan that forum tout-suite. As it is, it's a further albatross round his neck neither he nor we need right now. He can always rev it back up in a few months after he's reworked it and/or the NA storm has calmed.
All Old Right
2003-09-01 13:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by M1488D+Aug 27 2003, 07:27 -->
QUOTE* (M1488D @ Aug 27 2003, 07:27 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Walter E Kurtz@Aug 27 2003, 00:43 * ** [ ** "Is Bill White an ADL informant?", "Why does ShopWhite carry James Bond films?" and my personal favorite (drum roll): "When we take over the entire world (all 125 of us)...should we send the Puerto Ricans to madigascar, or deport them to Mexico"
Other than the mexico comment, questions 1 and 2 are viable questions. Q#1 is a question that can pretty much be asked about every person you come into contact with on a message board, and esp. with someone like Bill White whose past is "checkered" to say the least. Q#2 should be self evident. For a website so ardantly against jews established in hollywood or anywhere, why would they sell the trash back to their own supporters? Not all posts on OD here are of the uber-intellectual variety.
"I support men like Sam Francis, Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran, Jared Taylor, and Kevin MacDonald. They are great minds, and they are awakening intelligent white men and women everyday to the perils faced by our volk."
Career politicians and media mouths, with the absolute exception of MacDonald. All of those fellas can't even name the jew, again, except MacDonald. If you're not naming the jew then you simply miss the point. What do these guys do for work? Do you think any of them have done a day of good old manual labor in their life?
"start wearing faggoty hollywood uniforms and/or off the rack suits, start an amateurish website and begin begging for donations ."
Off the rack suits, jeez, maybe that's why you like Francis, Pat, Taylor. Clothes obviously make the man.....
Anyhow, my ultimate point is that there isn't anybody out there with what it takes to pull us out of the hole we are in. **
LOL. Yep, think I'm going to like it over here.
I saw Stormfront and VNN. I personally think the antagonistic approach is counterproductive, makes people too much like what they say they are against. I think a lot of it is the mindset of being part of some macho secret, militant culture that draws fire from Jews and the US government, to two most pervasive powers on the planet. That attention won't be so valued when arrests are made and the "education"(ie. torture) begins.