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Thread 9299

Thread ID: 9299 | Posts: 98 | Started: 2003-08-26

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Northern Bastion [OP]

2003-08-26 07:38 | User Profile

I was wondering if the 14 Words, 88 Precepts and other David Lane works are still banned here?

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If men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences ...reason is of no use to us; the freedom of speech may be taken away, and dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. ----George Washington (1732-1799)

Conservative

2003-08-26 09:31 | User Profile

If we want White Nationalism to grow beyond less than .01 percent of the White race, then anything related to National Socialism, the KKK, or Skinheadism should be banned from this forum.

Regards,

White Nationalist

Frederick William I

2003-08-26 09:47 | User Profile

Originally posted by White Nationalist@Aug 26 2003, 09:31 * *If we want White Nationalism to grow beyond less than .01 percent of the White race, then anything related to National Socialism, the KKK, or Skinheadism should be banned from this forum.

Regards,

White Nationalist**

Making a distinction between the two however isn't necessarily easy to do. As posters like Triskelion have shown us, aspects of National Socialism and even the National Socialist regime represent legitimate questions to ponder for all WN's, whether or not we agree with them.

The question with all material is if it represents something new and relevant, or just represents a rehashing of old bromides and prejudices. Toward that end its the pattern of posting really that's significant. All sorts of issues associated with National Socialism, including types like 14 worders, we discuss here. To determine if person wants to contribute positively to this forum, we look if the effort of ones posting is to further positive discussion rather than just repeat old bromides or throw old epitaphs. A Occidental Quarterly type review of the political considerations of 14/88 positions of course would be fine, and even stuff from less reputable sources we now consider, if its germane to the discussion.

If one just wants to constantly suggest that "all white woman are whores" or repeat talk about "the day of the rope" that is just repititious, and really serves no purpose being here.

friedrich braun

2003-08-26 14:05 | User Profile

*Originally posted by White Nationalist@Aug 26 2003, 03:31 * ** If we want White Nationalism to grow beyond less than .01 percent of the White race, then anything related to National Socialism, the KKK, or Skinheadism should be banned from this forum.

Regards,

White Nationalist **

If someone should be banned from this forum (or any other forum) it should be unstable freaks like you. I much rather read the superior output of Triskelion, Neo-Nietzche, Leland Gaunt, etc. than your moronic inanities about creating a hybrid race by mixing East Asians with Whites; your psychedelic musings on Extraterrestrials and how their superior technology could potentially further the cause of WN...stupid blah blah blah...(you placed an ad on a sci-fi board asking ET to abduct you, have you had much luck? Do inform us when it happens), etc., etc., etc. I usually just ignore your idiocies and don't even read 99 % your maniacal, obsessive posts (except for their entertainment value – much as with rban), but when you talk of banning members (why don’t you post a poll like Raina, and let’s see how many people would like to see you leave) of this forum who make a real contribution instead of just wasting everyone’s time and OD’s bandwidth, you should know that you’re trying everyone's patience.

Tell us Ares, White Nationalist, or whatever the hell your name is today, did you enjoy getting banned from SF? The moderators at SF tend to have very low tolerance when it comes to rambling, psychologically unhinged fruitcakes, don't they?

So, jump in your space ship and say "adios amigos". And don't forget to say hi to Rael!

Texas Dissident

2003-08-26 14:17 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Frederick William I@Aug 26 2003, 04:47 * ** Making a distinction between the two however isn't necessarily easy to do. As posters like Triskelion have shown us, aspects of National Socialism and even the National Socialist regime represent legitimate questions to ponder for all WN's, whether or not we agree with them.

The question with all material is if it represents something new and relevant, or just represents a rehashing of old bromides and prejudices. Toward that end its the pattern of posting really that's significant. All sorts of issues associated with National Socialism, including types like 14 worders, we discuss here. To determine if person wants to contribute positively to this forum, we look if the effort of ones posting is to further positive discussion rather than just repeat old bromides or throw old epitaphs. A Occidental Quarterly type review of the political considerations of 14/88 positions of course would be fine, and even stuff from less reputable sources we now consider, if its germane to the discussion.

If one just wants to constantly suggest that "all white woman are whores" or repeat talk about "the day of the rope" that is just repititious, and really serves no purpose being here. **

Said better than I could.

Thanks, FW.

na Gaeil is gile

2003-08-26 16:14 | User Profile

I doubt there is anything in the [url=http://www.pyramidprophecy.net/88%20Precepts.htm]88 precepts[/url] that hasn't already been discussed here. I believe precept 10 is one of the foundations of Texas Dissident's politics.

10. If a Nation is devoid of spiritual health and moral character, then government and unprincipled men will fill the vacancy. Therefore, freedom prospers in moral values and tyranny thrives in moral decay.

There's not much to say about the 88 precepts really, it meanders into cliché towards the end in a effort to achieve the 'magic' Heil Hitler number. Other than that it's mostly true, simple common sense which has being empirically proven by history.

While looking up the document I discovered [url=http://www.writingproject.org/pub/nwpr/quarterly/2003no1/rider.html]this particularly disturbing insight into the emoting female mind[/url] (not for the weak of stomach).

Walter E Kurtz

2003-08-26 19:27 | User Profile

I don't speak for anybody but myself...however, I feel that the members here are happy to discuss true National Socialism and its ideological roots. I personally am partial to Yockey's interpretation of NS. That said, I don't feel that David Lane is intelligent, a scholar, or anything but a detriment to the White Nationalist cause. The man is a violent felon who promulgates superstition and numerology...and he is not a relevant figure to anyone except for the extreme fringe of White Nationalism.

Conservative

2003-08-26 19:45 | User Profile

*Originally posted by friedrich braun@Aug 26 2003, 08:05 * ** If someone should be banned from this forum (or any other forum) it should be unstable freaks like you. I much rather read the superior output of Triskelion, Neo-Nietzche, Leland Gaunt, etc. than your moronic inanities about creating a hybrid race by mixing East Asians with Whites, your psychedelic musings on Extraterrestrials and how their superior technology could potentially further the cause of WN...stupid blah blah blah...(you placed an ad on a sci-fi board asking ET to abduct you, have you had much luck? Do inform us when it happens), etc., etc., etc. I usually don’t bother responding to your idiocies or even read 99 % your maniacal, obsessive posts (except for their entertainment value – much as with rban), but when you talk of banning members (why don’t you post a poll like Raina, and let’s see how many people would like to see you leave) of this forum who make a real contribution instead of just wasting everyone’s time and OD’s bandwidth, you should know that you’re trying everyone's patience.

Tell us Ares, White Nationalist, or whatever the hell your name is today, did you enjoy getting banned from SF? The moderators at SF tend to have very low tolerance when it comes to rambling, psychologically unhinged fruitcakes, don't they?

So, jump in your space ship and say "adios amigos". And don't forget to say hi to Rael! **

Argument ad hominem. Please provide a rational and objective rebuttal to my beliefs.

Regards,

White Nationalist

triskelion

2003-08-27 20:34 | User Profile

With the exception of Ares' banalities this has been a rather productive thread. Ares thinks that FB should take his contra-reality pablum seriously which is impossible given the irrational and imaginary basis of his posts. While Ares calls for the banning of anyone that holds opinions contrary to his with respect to race the notion that he should be tolerated let alone taken seriously becomes farcical.

I am not informed about David Lane other then what the link that some one provided and the fact that he had some sort of involvement with a terrorist gang which I am unaware of. After read his 88 precepts and something about having multiple wives on VNN I conclude that he has nothing to say and is detriment to anyone serious about any form of Eurocentrism. As to his stuff being banned in the US I can't say but I would bet that it would be legal no where in Europa which is in no way a recommendation for or a condemnation of any piece of literature or music.

**I believe that this forum's relationship to National Socialism should be the same as the Left's relationship to Marxism. Not only is distancing ourselves entirely from National Socialism somewhat intellectually dishonest given the common ground shared between the authentic right and NS, but there is also a great deal to be learned from the rich cultural and intellectual traditions that ultimately lead to National Socialism, Flangism, Syndicalism, and Fascism.

Whether people like it or not, National Socialism and syndicalist "fascist" regimes elsewhere in Europe is an example of a real, functioning political system (contra the pipe dreams of libertarians and many paleo-conservatives) that stands as a concrete alternative both to plutocratic "parliamentary democracy" on the one hand and Marxism on the other. As such, its merits and failures alike deserve a hearing.

In saying this, I of course draw a distinction between authentic National Socialist ideology and the clownish skinhead types who claim its name without the slightest understanding of NS apart from "we hate kkes and nggers." But since we don't get this variety of "national socialist" here (instead, we have authentic representatives such as triskelion, NeoNietzsche, Leland Gaunt, etc), I think that for the purposes of this forum it's a moot point.**

I think that my old friend AY is fully correct. I have zero interest with the Hollywood nazi scene and I think that they are as harmful to this board as the demented musings of Ares or Raina.

When looking to any school of thought, person or organization of the past or present the only real question is what can we learn from them that will help save our nations from destruction. Historical mimicry and nostalgia have no real place for those serious about saving our nations any more then mindless hooliganism does as neither are to be confused with activism or serious thought. The latter is the basis from which productive activism comes which means that simply having a wish list (ex. a white nation, a constitutional government etc) is not enough.

Also, I wish to extend greetings to the always interesting and helpful W.E. Kurtz who has contributed much to this forum.

Hilaire Belloc

2003-08-27 21:53 | User Profile

*Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Aug 27 2003, 13:36 * ** Let's see another post about how Jesus Christ was actually an "alien transhumanist." I'm sure everyone on this forum could use a good laugh. **

There are actually ufologists(whatever the hell that means) who try to argue that Moses actually recieved the 10 commandments from a space ship and because of the radiation his hair turned white. Then they also try to argue that the prophet Elijah was a also a space alien. I'm sure they'll try to argue that Jesus was resurrected and brought to heaven by you know who, :1eye: !

What an age we live in! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hilaire Belloc

2003-08-27 21:59 | User Profile

**I am not informed about David Lane other then what the link that some one provided and the fact that he had some sort of involvement with a terrorist gang which I am unaware of. **

Lane was a member of the Order, or Burgen Swash-something, well I just refer to is as "the Order". It operated around 1983-84ish untill police arrested most members and later tracked down Robert Mathews(the leader), but he was killed in a shootout. I know that during the police negotiations with Mathews, Mathew made some demand along the lines of sending all :afro: back to Africa. The police are not going to do that just to capture one suspect.

Northern Bastion

2003-08-28 03:54 | User Profile

Thank you for the replys.

Conservative

2003-08-28 06:22 | User Profile

Do you really think that your Heaven's Gate Cult posts will ever attract a larger following than the 88/14 Stormfront crowd?

There appears to be more people interested in the paranormality than in White Nationalism, at least for the time being.

As far as I know, you're the only one on this or any other "white nationalist" forum who takes stories of little green men from outer space with magical powers seriously. Let's see another post about how Jesus Christ was actually an "alien transhumanist." I'm sure everyone on this forum could use a good laugh.

Argumentum Ad Hominem

Regards,

White Nationalist

friedrich braun

2003-08-28 06:40 | User Profile

*Originally posted by White Nationalist@Aug 28 2003, 00:22 * ** There appears to be more people interested in the paranormality than in White Nationalism, at least for the time being.

Argumentum Ad Hominem

Regards,

White Nationalist **

Oh?

Really?

Please provide empirical evidence for that assertion.

Regards,

FB

triskelion

2003-08-28 07:22 | User Profile

There appears to be more people interested in the paranormality than in White Nationalism, at least for the time being.

Here Ares pretends that his contra-factual views matter to anyone and presumes that because others share an interest in silly crap dressed up as science (ex paranormality) it must be worth while and relavent to pro-Occidental politics. After all, he has stated that he is THE LEADER so his feavered brain has decided that nothing else need be said.

Conservative

2003-08-28 20:07 | User Profile

*Originally posted by friedrich braun@Aug 28 2003, 00:40 * ** Please provide empirical evidence for that assertion.

**

There are more websites on the Paranormality than on White Nationalism. Keep in mind that withen the boundaries of Paranormality is also Christianity and all other theologies, so when you add up all the religion sites, you end up with millions of websites. The field of paranormality is not just limited to UFOs or ETs, but ANYTHING that resides outside of normal experience or things that can't be scientifically explained. Many Christians claim to see ghosts of dead relatives, or believe to have had religious experiences such as divine intervention or what have you. Then you have the out of body experiences, and the people who come close to dying and see themselves going through a tunnel towards a light, but then suddenly go back to their bodies.

Discussing the validy of paranormal events is a LOT less taboo than discussing the validity of the Ku Klux Klan, National Socialism, or the Skinhead movement. The paranormality is considered a lot more respectable field. Most academics want to know if there are life on other planets or if religions are valid. There are numberous paranormality groups that are considered much more respectable than anything related to White Nationalism, such as the popular and well known group SETI. The paranormality is actually even a lot more popular in non-American White Nations, which are lot more secular then America.

Then consider all the Hollywood movies about the paranormality. But how many movies do you see showing White Nationalism in a positive light or even mentioning it?

All this points to the fact that the paranormality is a lot more acceptable to the mainstream than White Nationalism. But if you mean, have I actually seen statistics in which samples of the white race population were taken and asked if they aproved more of discussing paranormality or White Nationalism, then no, I have not seen such research.

Regards,

White Nationalism

triskelion

2003-08-28 20:44 | User Profile

**There are more websites on the Paranormality than on White Nationalism. **

There are more porno sites then pretty much anything else so number of sites means little. Several racial and racist sites have excellent alexa scores which are meaningful. Ares favorite sites can't get anywhere close to the amount of traffic that VNN or overthrow gets so that pretty much wipes out his theory.

** Keep in mind that withen the boundaries of Paranormality is also Christianity and all other theologies, so when you add up all the religion sites, you end up with millions of websites.**

If you define para-normal as anything you don't think of of as rational (ex. any sort of religion) as well as anything you falsely presume is rational (ex. the sci-fi wackyness you spam this board with) then certainly such paranormality is so broadly defined that it's a worthless defination as is your open promotion of the destruction of my race as being white nationalism. Given that your defination is meaningless and not accepted by those that adhere to Christainity or most other theological constructs (if any) your statement is clearly baseless.

**The paranormality is considered a lot more respectable field. **

Given that academics study philosophy, religion and a great many other fields but they don't study your silly notions about Star Trek, alien abductions etc. nor do most universities have departments of Paranormality and they do not adhere to your baseless definition of paranoramlity anyone can see that your statements are easily refuted. Of course lots of academics do study "extremism" (meaning anthing not accepted politically by the current ruling order) so it's clear that the inverse of your statement is wrong as well.

** But if you mean, have I actually seen statistics in which samples of the white race population were taken and asked if they aproved more of discussing paranormality or White Nationalism, then no, I have not seen such research.**

Translation: Setting a side my overly vague, all consuming defination of paranormaily excepted by no one out side of my little clique of Heaven's Gate posuers and Star Trek groupies is absurd I have no empirical evidence for my assertion.

Of course the simple reality is that almost nothing Ares says has scientific meaning and he is too dishonest and detachted from reality to notice his own flummery. While racialist parties and populists that promote racial themes are electorally viable in most European nations Ares style cultic wierdness has never and will never have any appeal or place in politics, economics or culture.

All Old Right

2003-09-03 20:52 | User Profile

Man, I've got some heavy reading to do. National Socialism? Facism on the right? I'm confused.

Alka

2003-09-03 22:25 | User Profile

There are only a couple of reasons why I do not visit OD as much as I would certainly like to...

One : the Ares-Rennick-Transhuman Racialist-Lady America schizo. I simply do not understand why a person is permitted to hold multiple accounts here.

Two: the presence of those who characterize Slavs negatively on a constant basis. I would urge any self-respecting Slav to go elsewhere as they are evidently neither appreciated or wanted here at OD.

Were these individuals described above more strongly discouraged from posting ad nauseum, I would visit OD much more frequently, and so I'm sure would a lot of other good people as well.

Hilaire Belloc

2003-09-04 00:22 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Alka@Sep 3 2003, 16:25 * ** Two: the presence of those who characterize Slavs negatively on a constant basis. I would urge any self-respecting Slav to go elsewhere as they are evidently neither appreciated or wanted here at OD.

**

I've only really seen that mostly from Rban. Then of course there's Leeland's anti-Polish stance(but is pro-Russian) and Zvaci. Other than those people, I've not noticed too many members with anti-Slavic agendas.

Texas Dissident

2003-09-04 06:20 | User Profile

Aren't Croats Slavs?

I love the great people of Croatia and do profitable business with them on a daily basis. They strike me as possessing a stubborn and independent streak which is much like the true Texan spirit.

Dobar dan!

And rban is simply a buffoon who has been allowed to post here to the extent that he has made me laugh at his over the top idiocy. However, he is now taking some time off to reflect on how best to act around one's superiors.

friedrich braun

2003-09-04 07:05 | User Profile

*Originally posted by perun1201@Sep 3 2003, 18:22 * ** Then of course there's Leeland's anti-Polish stance(but is pro-Russian) and Zvaci. Other than those people, I've not noticed too many members with anti-Slavic agendas. **

Then of course there's Leeland's anti-Polish stance(but is pro-Russian) and Zvaci. Other than those people, I've not noticed too many members with anti-Slavic agendas.

Perun,

Leland is only reacting the NP's vulgar filth and provocations.

The polack is constantly recycling old, worn-out lies. It’s very boring. I mean, he’s completely unaware of any revisionist scholarship, and when you point something out to him, he dismisses it out-of-hand; without addressing the points raised or even reading the material (notice what he said about the Eisatzgruppen piece, i.e., that the article I posted was just a “theory”, not backed up by facts. Now, that’s a total lie, the article in question was copiously footnoted and addressed important issues of international law. But I even doubt that he read it -- he's just too well ensconced in his comforting victimology -- as are the Jews). He, in turn, spreads lies and doesn't give a single source to back up his claims. How can you react to empty insinuations? You cannot. I don’t mind debating those that believe in the Holo-swindle (most people do, and it's not their fault -- because people are stupid and lazy and won't do their homework on what really happened), as long as they’re open-minded and fair, i.e., as long as they genuinely want to learn and have a meaningful and civil exchange of ideas, views, opinions, etc. The polack, on the other hand, only hurls filthy, disgusting insults and is completely close-minded (he probably believes his own bullshit, too…very sad). Jews and Poles have had the most to gain from the official “Holocaust” narrative; therefore it’s not surprising that Poles have so eagerly adopted the official party line.

Texas Dissident

2003-09-04 07:15 | User Profile

Perhaps due to my native American isolationist tendencies, I have pretty much ignored the European ethnic rivalries and refighting of WWII that has taken place here, figuring that it didn't have any bearing on what I was doing. However, it seems as though it has become a distraction for several close acquaintances of mine who think that its continuance is taking away from the board overall.

Therefore, I will make a gentlemanly request of all parties involved to please bury the hatchet on this subject and focus efforts on other more pressing issues. The last thing I want to see is senior members taking off in disgusted protest or even worse, having their posting priveleges suspended or removed. Let's move on and focus our energy on the real enemy, shall we?

Polish Noble

2003-09-04 07:25 | User Profile

Originally posted by friedrich braun+Sep 4 2003, 01:05 -->

QUOTE* (friedrich braun @ Sep 4 2003, 01:05 )

<!--QuoteBegin-perun1201@Sep 3 2003, 18:22 * ** Then of course there's Leeland's anti-Polish stance(but is pro-Russian) and Zvaci. Other than those people, I've not noticed too many members with anti-Slavic agendas. ** Then of course there's Leeland's anti-Polish stance(but is pro-Russian) and Zvaci. Other than those people, I've not noticed too many members with anti-Slavic agendas. The polack is constantly recycling old, worn-out lies. It’s very boring. I mean, he’s Perun, Leland is only reacting the NP's vulgar filth and provocations. completely unaware of any revisionist scholarship, and when you point something out to him, he dismisses it out-of-hand; without addressing the points raised or even reading the material (notice what he said about the Eisatzgruppen piece, i.e., that the article I posted was just a “theory”, not backed up by facts. Now, that’s a total lie, the article in question was copiously footnoted and addressed important issues of international law. But I even doubt that he read it -- he's just too well ensconced in his comforting victimology -- as are the Jews). He, in turn, spreads lies and doesn't give a single source to back up his claims. How can you react to empty insinuations? You cannot. I don’t mind debating those that believe in the Holo-swindle (most people do, and it's not their fault -- because people are stupid and lazy and won't do their homework on what really happened), as long as they’re open-minded and fair, i.e., as long as they genuinely want to learn and have a meaningful and civil exchange of ideas, views, opinions, etc. The polack, on the other hand, only hurls filthy, disgusting insults and is completely close-minded (he probably believes his own bullshit, too…very sad). Jews and Poles have had the most to gain from the official “Holocaust” narrative; therefore it’s not surprising that Poles have so eagerly adopted the official party line.** Both you and LG had your chance over at the (now locked) holocaust thread, and were soundly defeated by the truth. I suggest that you allow the topic to pass, lest you turn away even more Poles and Slavs from White Nationalism. Be civil and you will be treated civilly. Two months ago, I was ready to reach out to the Germans, even though I received many emails from irate Slavs (mostly Russians) warning me against trusting them. LG and you convinced me that I had indeed made a grave error. friedrich braun 2003-09-04 17:39 | User Profile Look how the filthy polack tries very hard to foment hate against Germans and Germany among the Slavs! Fight your own battles, lying polack! I suggest that you allow the topic to pass, lest you turn away even more Poles and Slavs from White Nationalism. And who appointed you the spokesman of all Poles and Slavs? Speak for yourself, polack! Two months ago, I was ready to reach out to the Germans, even though I received many emails from irate Slavs (mostly Russians) warning me against trusting them. LG and you convinced me that I had indeed made a grave error. Is it possible for this egomaniac to stop lying? If you go to VNN Forum check International-affairs/Europe and History. There you will find the most vile and disgusting threads of the polack on Germany. In one he even says something like Germany should be exterminated. Is that what you call "reaching out", polack? You got banned from the VNNforum for your psychotic, murderous, filthy posts, and after you were copiously warned by the moderators. That was quite an achievement! Congrats! Getting banned from the VNNforum! Wow! Both you and LG had your chance over at the (now locked) holocaust thread, and were soundly defeated by the truth. You did nothing of the sort, polack! Rather, you spread lies and didn't give a single source to back up your claims. Anyway, I regret getting sucked into an exchange with this unhinged, aggressive, foam-at-the-mouth, uncouth, vulgar lunatic. Until you barged in like a stock pig, this board was doing fine. Why don't you join Rban -- another filthy piece of excrement (and someone who shares your "style" when it comes to abusing, disrespecting, insulting White women in the most vulgar, disguting, murderous language -- do you want me to post a thread of your greatest hits from VNNforum and OD on German women, polack?) on his way to oblivion. :dung: :dung: :dung: Polish Noble 2003-09-04 18:10 | User Profile *Originally posted by friedrich braun@Sep 4 2003, 11:39 * ** Look how the filthy polack tries very hard to foment hate against Germans and Germany among the Slavs! Fight your own battles, lying polack! I suggest that you allow the topic to pass, lest you turn away even more Poles and Slavs from White Nationalism. And who appointed you the spokesman of all Poles and Slavs? Speak for yourself, polack! Two months ago, I was ready to reach out to the Germans, even though I received many emails from irate Slavs (mostly Russians) warning me against trusting them. LG and you convinced me that I had indeed made a grave error. Is it possible for this egomaniac to stop lying? If you go to VNN Forum check International-affairs/Europe and History. There you will find the most vile and disgusting threads of the polack on Germany. In one he even says something like Germany should be exterminated. Is that what you call "reaching out", polack? You got banned from the VNNforum for your psychotic, murderous, filthy posts, and after you were copiously warned by the moderators. That was quite an achievement! Congrats! Getting banned from the VNNforum! Wow! Both you and LG had your chance over at the (now locked) holocaust thread, and were soundly defeated by the truth. You did nothing of the sort, polack! Rather, you spread lies and didn't give a single source to back up your claims. Anyway, I regret getting sucked into an exchange with this unhinged, aggressive, foam-at-the-mouth, uncouth, vulgar lunatic. Until you barged in like a stock pig, this board was doing fine. Why don't you join Rban -- another filthy piece of excrement (and someone who shares your "style" when it comes to abusing, disrespecting, insulting White women in the most vulgar, disguting, murderous language -- do you want me to post a thread of your greatest hits from VNNforum and OD on German women, polack?) on his way to oblivion. :dung: :dung: :dung: ** You're all class. Polish Noble 2003-09-04 18:44 | User Profile Take some time off, then. Your project to reconcile with Germans is a good one, and there are certainly plenty of Germans who feel as you do. Don't exhaust yourself. Why should I reconcile with them? Don't you think it should be the other way around? But for God's sake, don't goad them, either! When you're in a bitter fight, it's hard to understand that there are lots and lots of people on the other side who can or do already agree with you. ** How have I goaded them? By countering their Nazi delusions and historical fabrications? As I've said before, I basically support you, but for you go and provoke Leland Gaunt and then complain about  standards of exchange seems a bit misguided. Where in these threads have I provoked him first? You will find that he always throws the first punch. I don't recall ever complaining about standards of exchange. friedrich braun 2003-09-04 20:19 | User Profile Wintermute, While the polack accepts all the Jewish lies and propaganda and the standard Nuremburg narrative (and more), I recall that you seem to have a clearer view of events. For e.g., how many Jews do you think perished in WW II? What is your opinion on the existence on the supernatural, magical gas chamber, etc., etc., etc.? Are you a Germanophobe, wintermute? I want to know where you're coming from. When you say that you "support" the polack, it would be useful to know just what you support. Care to explain? When someone writes with unconceiled glee about German women getting savagely raped en masse by the Soviet beasts at the end of WW II he deserves to be seen for what he is... Polish Noble 2003-09-04 20:53 | User Profile Originally posted by friedrich braun@Sep 4 2003, 14:19 * ** When someone writes with unconceiled glee about German women getting savagely raped en masse by the Soviet beasts at the end of WW II he deserves to be seen for what he is...* As you so often do, you are synopsizing me from a warped memory coloured by uncontrollable adolescent rage. I have never written any such thing on these fora. Your ad hominem against my person is an admittance of a lack of arguments in the wake of resounding defeat. Why don't you let the hullabaloo subside for the sake of your own sanity? friedrich braun 2003-09-04 23:29 | User Profile Where have you refuted anything polack? Show it to me! [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=10720]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...showtopic=10720[/url] Where? How about addressing the issues raised! Calling people names does not cut it. Do you call that a "debate"? When I asked you to provide any evidence for your assertion that Bismarck wanted to Germanize Poles, did you? No. Another lie. When you make a claim the onus is on you to provide evidence. Why the hell are you here? You're a patronizing and arrogant little sh*t. Soon I will post what you said about German women here and elsewhere; I will let everyone see what a twisted, murderous, and perverted psychopath lurks behind that keyboard. Wintermute, PN is not interested in any "reconciliation" (this has been amply shown by his behaviour on OD); I had tried to take that route with him, only to have him spit in my face. Hilaire Belloc 2003-09-04 23:30 | User Profile *Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Sep 4 2003, 00:20 * ** Aren't Croats Slavs? I love the great people of Croatia and do profitable business with them on a daily basis.  They strike me as possessing a stubborn and independent streak which is much like the true Texan spirit. Dobar dan! ** Yes Croats are Slavs, but Zvaci denies this simple fact and takes every oppurtunity to bash Slavs(especially Poles). I personally didn't care for those pictures he posted on the Polish resistance thread, like "How do you stop the Polish cavalry? Stop the carasoul" type nonesense. **I am a Germanophile, with reservations. I regard the Germans (including about half of the UK population, of course) as the most remarkable race in the human record, possibly excepting the Greeks. ** I've said many times here before that I greatly admire many things about Germany and the Germans. I love Beethoven, I love Schiller, I love Goethe, I love Herder, I love Clausewitz, and much much more. But I hardly believe that the Germans are the most remarkable race in history. I'm puzzled as to why so many Germanophiles think this way. Cato believes that Germans alone "drive the European juggernaut" and that the past 1500 years has been determined by Germans. True, Germany has produced much for Europe and the World, but they weren't the only ones. I've just noticed that many Germanophiles here seem to ignore the achievements of the Italians, French, Spainish, and of course Slavic peoples. The 18th century, for example, was practically dominated by the French, and many Germans admired them. Frederick the Great admired anything and everything French, often spoke French more often than he did German, and even tried to flee to France when a teenager. Yes Germans are a great people, but let's not go overboard here. Stop talking as if they're the only Europeans who accomplished anything in history or today! iwannabeanarchy 2003-09-04 23:49 | User Profile Well, if we are including the Anglo-Saxons, et al, and thus talking about the Germanic people, I think 'greatest race' in history is fairly on target. Now we can add Bacon, Shakespeare, Newton, Locke, Milton, etc. And the birth of liberal democracy, America, the British Empire, etc., etc. Plus we can through in Dutch/Flemish achievements, such as the stock market, Van Hals, Rembrandt, etc. Also, there have been no mention of the Germanic contributions to the field of medicine, which surely rank very high up their in ancestor's accomplishments. And what of chemistry, biology, anthropology, geology--here Germanic people's have made un-paralleled achievements. Also, there is Martin Luther, Althusiuis, and the other great theologians. And then all the great Germanic philosopher--they really dominated global philosophy in the period from Leibniz up through Heidegger. Outside of Germany, Austria, England, the Netherlands, Flanders, and Denmark, along those descended from these nations, there is also the fact that accomplished citizens of Ireland, Russia, France, etc., all often had a good of Germanic blood. I don't know if the Slavs, or the Italians, or the French really can compare with the large mass that is the Germanic people. Also, northern Frenchmen just aren't that racially different from the English, the Austrians, the southern Germans, etc. That makes this whole issue rather confusing. And then there is the Germanic migrations into Italy and Spain, and the rather close racial bonds between Germanic and Celtic peoples. In the end, we do a lot better if we talk about the achievments of the Germano-Celtic people. Then we can lump the Germanic peoples, the Scottish & Irish, the Northern French, the Northern Italian, some aristocratic Spaniards, etc., all in the same group. This does leave out the Slavs and the Baltic peoples. But I think they get cred just by being related to us. :) Hilaire Belloc 2003-09-05 00:16 | User Profile Well, if we are including the Anglo-Saxons, et al, and thus talking about the Germanic people, I think 'greatest race' in history is fairly on target.  Now we can add Bacon, Shakespeare, Newton, Locke, Milton, etc. I'm not denying the impact of those people, but almost anyother major European power can boast of similar men. Russia for example can boast of Pavlov, Mendeleev, Basov, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostovesky, Gogol, Solzhenistyn, etc. **And the birth of liberal democracy, America, the British Empire, etc., etc.  ** Democracy was hardly invented by the Germans. In fact you find evidence of such concepts in every European culture. Democracy as we know it today grew out of Greece and Italy. As for the British Empire, France also built a large world-wide empire and for 300 years was Britian's arch imperialist rival. Russia too had an enormous empire and was a thorn in the British side throughout the 19th century. ** Also, there is Martin Luther, Althusiuis, and the other great theologians. ** As an Eastern Christian, Martin Luther has no bearing on my beliefs and thus this alone fails to convince me. Byzantium and Rus produced accomplished theologians as well, and many of the truths professed by Luther were written down before his time in the East. Many Western Christians are often very impressed with the truth writtened by theologians of the Eastern heritage, and have noticed many members here too have been impressed. ** And then all the great Germanic philosopher--they really dominated global philosophy in the period from Leibniz up through Heidegger.** I don't deny the great influence of German philosophy, but again you ignore the influence of French philosophers and sadly many in the West have known little of [url=http://www.emory.edu/INTELNET/rus_thought_overview.html]Russian philosophers[/url]. For example, many of Spengler's views were forged almost a hundred years earlier by the Russian thinker Danilevsky. That is not saying Spengler was influenced by Danilevsky, but many of his ideas were espoused by Danilevsky. Outside of Germany, Austria, England, the Netherlands, Flanders, and Denmark, along those descended from these nations, there is also the fact that accomplished citizens of Ireland, Russia, France, etc., all often had a good of Germanic blood. And many were not. Many of Russia's greatest minds did not have Germanic blood in them. ** I don't know if the Slavs, or the Italians, or the French really can compare with the large mass that is the Germanic people.  ** If you're talking population wise, Slavs are the largest ethnic grouping in Europe. ** This does leave out the Slavs and the Baltic peoples.  But I think they get cred just by being related to us. :)** I don't know exactly what you mean by this, and I hope you better explain it to me. Cause so far I'm reading that we Slavs are only of value because we're somehow related to Germans. If that's what you think, you better think again and learn your history then because we Slavs have defeated the Germanic peoples plenty of times in the past! But before I go further, I'll let you explain yourself. iwannabeanarchy 2003-09-05 00:49 | User Profile The thing is, I don't think any of the Slavs you mention really are that important or valuable. And obviously, I don't agree about the value of Luther as well. Simply put, I think my Protestant belief is better than you orthodox belief. Slavs might be a large ethnic group, but I am not convinced you have accomplished all that much. Really, I can think of no Russian writer, philosopher, musician, or visual artist who is of the rank of Shakespeare, Milton, Beethoven, Goethe, etc. In the area of sciences, it is simply not historically accurate to claim that the Russians have contributed anything close to as much as the Germanic people. I realize many do value Russian novelists highly, but I do not share their opinion. In the area of music and the theatre, the Slavs have done a lot, but it is all still of second-rank compared to Germanic achievements. So no, I am not saying that Slavs are honored only by their blood ties with Germano-Celtic peoples, but I am saying that apart from those blood ties, Slavs would be at the same level as, say, the Japanese. Hilaire Belloc 2003-09-05 01:11 | User Profile The thing is, I don't think any of the Slavs you mention really are that important or valuable. Then you're ignorant of history! ** And obviously, I don't agree about the value of Luther as well.  Simply put, I think my Protestant belief is better than you orthodox belief.** Well actually I'm a Byzantine Catholic, but we do refer to ourselves as "Orthodox in communion with Rome". But I obviously think that my Eastern heritage is superior to Protestantism. ** Slavs might be a large ethnic group, but I am not convinced you have accomplished all that much. ** Then you are ignorant of history! We Slavs have contributed much to the world. Read Steven G. Marks [url=http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7346.html]How Russia Shaped the Modern World[/url]. There's even a chapter about how Russian thought influenced German nationalists in the late 19th and 20th century. **Really, I can think of no Russian writer, philosopher, musician, or visual artist who is of the rank of Shakespeare, Milton, Beethoven, Goethe, etc. ** I already named some. If you deny that, then you're ignorant of history. You're denying the influence of at least Tolstoy and Dostoevesky on world literature, than you're ignorant. In the area of sciences, it is simply not historically accurate to claim that the Russians have contributed anything close to as much as the Germanic people. Then look here [url=http://russianscientists.com/history/index.php3]http://russianscientists.com/history/index.php3[/url] I realize many do value Russian novelists highly, but I do not share their opinion.  In the area of music and the theatre, the Slavs have done a lot, but it is all still of second-rank compared to Germanic achievements. And that's your opinion, and it's ignorantly based on ethnic arrogance. So no, I am not saying that Slavs are honored only by their blood ties with Germano-Celtic peoples, but I am saying that apart from those blood ties, Slavs would be at the same level as, say, the Japanese. So basically you confirmed my earlier view. Nevermind the fact that Ancient Rus was a powerful and influential power in Europe during the Middle Ages. Not only that it guarded the trade routes from Europe to Asia. And need we forget we Slavs saved Europe's ass from the Mongol invadors. We also saved Europe from Napoleon, a feat many Germans praised Mother Russia for doing! ** "The Germans have for long propounded the theory that the Russian people is feminine and psychic in contrast to the masculine and spiritual German people. The masculine spirit of the German people ought to subdue the feminine soul of the Russian people. This theory has been linked to a practice which corresponds with it. This whole theory is constructed for the justification of German imperialism and the German will to power. In actual fact the Russian people has always been capable of displaying great masculinity and it is proving this to the Germans. There has been a heroic principle in it. The Russian quest bears a spiritual rather than a psychic character. Every people ought to be both masculine and feminine; the two principles should be combined in it. It is true there is a predominance of the masculine principle in the German people, but this rather a disfigurement than a quality to be proud of and it leads to no good. The significance of these judgements is of course limited. During the period of German romanticism the feminine principle made its appearance also. But it is true that the German and Russian ideas stand in opposition to each other. The German idea is the idea of rule, dominance, of might, wheras the Russian idea is the idea of community and brotherhood of men and peoples. In Germany there has always been an acute dualism between its state, its military, and aggressive spirit, and its spiritual culture, the immense freedom of its thought. The Russians have owed very much to German spiritual culture, especially to its great philosophy. But the German state is the historical enemy of Russia. In German thought itself there is an element which is hostile to us; this is especially the case in Hegel, Nietzsche and, however strange it may be, Marx. We are bound to desire brotherly relations with the German people, who have achieved much that is great, but on condition it repudiates the will to power." Nikolai Berdyaev "the Russian Idea" 1947, pg 266-67** friedrich braun 2003-09-05 01:24 | User Profile *Originally posted by iwannabeanarchy@Sep 4 2003, 17:49 * ** Well, if we are including the Anglo-Saxons, et al, and thus talking about the Germanic people, I think 'greatest race' in history is fairly on target.  Now we can add Bacon, Shakespeare, Newton, Locke, Milton, etc.  And the birth of liberal democracy, America, the British Empire, etc., etc.  Plus we can through in Dutch/Flemish achievements, such as the stock market, Van Hals, Rembrandt, etc.  Also, there have been no mention of the Germanic contributions to the field of medicine, which surely rank very high up their in ancestor's accomplishments.  And what of chemistry, biology, anthropology, geology--here Germanic people's have made  un-paralleled achievements. Also, there is Martin Luther, Althusiuis, and the other great theologians.  And then all the great Germanic philosopher--they really dominated global philosophy in the period from Leibniz up through Heidegger. Outside of Germany, Austria, England, the Netherlands, Flanders, and Denmark, along those descended from these nations, there is also the fact that accomplished citizens of Ireland, Russia, France, etc., all often had a good of Germanic blood. I don't know if the Slavs, or the Italians, or the French really can compare with the large mass that is the Germanic people.  Also, northern Frenchmen just aren't that racially different from the English, the Austrians, the southern Germans, etc.  That makes this whole issue rather confusing.  And then there is the Germanic migrations into Italy and Spain, and the rather close racial bonds between Germanic and Celtic peoples. In the end, we do a lot better if we talk about the achievments of the Germano-Celtic people.  Then we can lump the Germanic peoples, the Scottish & Irish, the Northern French, the Northern Italian, some aristocratic Spaniards, etc., all in the same group.  This does leave out the Slavs and the Baltic peoples.  But I think they get cred just by being related to us. :) ** Quick point: The Baltic States have historically been within the German sphere of influence. (And my girlfriend is Lithuanian-Canadian (both sides -- mother born in Lithuania, fled the Bolsheviki) -- 5 10, blonde, and (gray) blue-eyed. Im of East Prussian descent and shes got my familys phenotype, she could be my sister. She fits right in. Very Germanic looking...) madrussian 2003-09-05 01:44 | User Profile Originally posted by perun+Sep 4 2003, 17:16--> QUOTE (perun @ Sep 4 2003, 17:16) Russia for example can boast of Pavlov, Mendeleev, Basov, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostovesky, Gogol, Solzhenistyn, etc.* **QUOTE** (madrussian @ Sep 4 2003, 19:44 ) **QUOTE** (perun @ Sep 4 2003, 17:16) Russia for example can boast of Pavlov, Mendeleev, Basov, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostovesky, Gogol, Solzhenistyn, etc.** **QUOTE** (Texas Dissident @ Sep 6 2003, 02:12 ) **QUOTE** (madrussian @ Sep 5 2003, 01:44 ) **QUOTE** (perun @ Sep 4 2003, 17:16) Russia for example can boast of Pavlov, Mendeleev, Basov, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Dostovesky, Gogol, Solzhenistyn, etc.** **QUOTE** (Walter Yannis @ Sep 7 2003, 09:58 )