← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · madrussian
Thread ID: 9271 | Posts: 11 | Started: 2003-08-25
2003-08-25 16:52 | User Profile
Looks like the troops have to improvise. First baby wipes for hygiene, now this
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=12&u=/ap/20030824/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_ak_47_heaven_1]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._ak_47_heaven_1[/url]
Sun Aug 24, 2:15 PM ET
By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press Writer
BAQOUBA, Iraq - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.
Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.
U.S. troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs ââ¬â and, they say, they need them.
The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. But they are short on rifles.
A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tank's firepower for protection.
But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential.
"We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers. So in certain circumstances we allow soldiers to have an AK-47. They have to demonstrate some proficiency with the weapon ... demonstrate an ability to use it," said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.
"Normally an armor battalion is fighting from its tanks. Well, we are not fighting from our tanks right now," Young said. "We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, there's no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged."
In Humvees, on tanks ââ¬â but never openly on base ââ¬â U.S. soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world.
The AK is favored by many of the world's fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently.
Now U.S. troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use ââ¬â and they like what they see.
Some complain that standard U.S. military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraq's dusty environment. Many say the AK has better "knockdown" power and can kill with fewer shots.
"The kind of war we are in now ... you want to be able to stop the enemy quick," said Sgt. 1st Class Tracy S. McCarson of Newport News, Va., an army scout, who carries an AK in his Humvee.
Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has "some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons," McCarson said.
Most U.S. soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 ââ¬â a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s ââ¬â is better for long distance, precision shooting.
But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Or they are raiding houses, taking on enemies at close-quarters.
Two weeks ago, Sgt. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. It was dark, the road narrow. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass.
Bailey, who couldn't see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. The choice was simple.
"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.
Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK ââ¬â they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.
"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.
Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."
Staff Sgt. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when he's out of his tank.
And the AK's durability has impressed him.
"They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work," Perez said.
2003-08-25 17:16 | User Profile
Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."
Now that says a mouthful!
Being familiar with both, I'd have to say in that situation, I would much prefer an AK over an M-16/M4. What with all the dust/sand and close-in work, the AK is in its element. The much ballyhoo-ed accuracy of the M-16 over the AK-47 doesn't mean a whole lot if the Stoner design FTF 'cause its gummed up with dust. Besides, it looks like the majority of engagements over there are taking place at less than 100 meters, and I can ding an 8" steel plate all day at 200 meters with open sights and supported/prone. What more accuracy do you want? Plus, the 7.62x39 seems to bust through cover a lot better than the 5.56 ball. I've read of cases where 5.56 55 grainers have broken apart on contact with car window glass, sheet rock and similar minimal cover, whereas in that situation, 7.62x39 would sail through and hit the target. Not sure about the current 62-grain 5.56 SS109 with the steel penetrator, but if the Somali adventure in '93 is any indication, the terminal ballistics against a motivated hostile seem to leave something to be desired. As a final bonus, the AK is a lot easier to clean and doesn't blast powder residue right into the action the way the M-16 does.
Hard to tell if this situation is indicative of poor logisitcs, since I'm sure the U.S. military has a supply of M-16s far in excess of current needs, but didn't send enough to the Gulf, or if they're caught short of shooters because they're asking troops (vehicle crews) to do a job they're not trained and equipped for (infantry foot patrols). Either way, it's bad news.
2003-08-25 17:20 | User Profile
** "AK-47, when you have to absolutely positively kill every muther-fcker in the room, except no substitute!" Samuel L. Jackson, "Jackie Brown"*
Yeah I know it's from a :afro: , but it's still true!
2003-08-25 19:21 | User Profile
"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.
What excellent soldiers. When you come under fire in a civilian area, just start spraying bullets...
2003-08-30 13:33 | User Profile
*Originally posted by MadScienceType@Aug 25 2003, 11:16 * ** Being familiar with both, I'd have to say in that situation, I would much prefer an AK over an M-16/M4.
**
The M16 has never impressed me except for its portability.
AKs and M14s all the way, thanks.
2003-08-30 18:08 | User Profile
**The M16 has never impressed me except for its portability.
AKs and M14s all the way, thanks. **
Well the M-16 is so complex and needs constant maintience and cleaning. Wheras the AK, you can throw that damn thing in the mud and it will still fire! It's also much simpler in design so if maintience is needed, its much easier.
:gun: :gun: :gun:
2003-08-31 03:53 | User Profile
Pray and spray.
I've gotten word about this from my step-brother. They've confiscated a whole bunch he says. Bringing them home for me :punk: is a problem... :naughty:
2003-08-31 05:14 | User Profile
RE: spray and pray
War is about getting faith, isnt' it? So an AK is more about faith than an M-16, isn't it? Especiallly after a toke or two.
By the way, they taught everyeone in the Soviet Army how to squeeze exactly two shots out of an AK -- count "tweny two" while squeezing the trigger. Beats the three-shot burst out of an M-16. Or are the grunts too stupid to accompllish that?Then an AK is a more suitable weapon anyway :lol:
2003-08-31 05:46 | User Profile
More Stuff:
**Technical Biography:Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov [url=http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-February01.html]http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-February01.html[/url]
Design Evolution of the Kalashnikov Avtomat [url=http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-March01.html]http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-March01.html[/url]
The German MP44/StG44 [url=http://www.cruffler.com/historic-february00.html]http://www.cruffler.com/historic-february00.html[/url]
"bigger hammer" [url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/]http://www.biggerhammer.net/[/url]
AK47 US Army Operators Manual v1 and v2 [url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak47_usarmy.pdf]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak47_usarmy.pdf[/url]
[url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak47_department_army_203rd.pdf]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak47_d..._army_203rd.pdf[/url]
7.62 x 39 mm Cartridge (Kalashnikov) [url=http://www.sovietarmy.com/ammunition/7.62x39.html]http://www.sovietarmy.com/ammunition/7.62x39.html[/url]
Blueprints:
AK 47 in DWG [url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blueprint.zip]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blueprint.zip[/url]
AK47 v2 [url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blueprints_v2.pdf]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/ak_blu...ueprints_v2.pdf[/url]
AK47 Drawing [url=http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/AK47receiverplan_rev2.pdf]http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/AK47re...erplan_rev2.pdf[/url]
**
2003-08-31 17:31 | User Profile
*Originally posted by madrussian@Aug 30 2003, 23:14 * ** RE: spray and pray
War is about getting faith, isnt' it? So an AK is more about faith than an M-16, isn't it? Especiallly after a toke or two.
By the way, they taught everyeone in the Soviet Army how to squeeze exactly two shots out of an AK -- count "tweny two" while squeezing the trigger. Beats the three-shot burst out of an M-16. Or are the grunts too stupid to accompllish that?Then an AK is a more suitable weapon anyway :lol: **
The 3 round burst is the most idotic idea I've ever heard of for a gun! :thd:
2003-09-06 08:08 | User Profile
Those are good links, Faust -- especially the ones to the receiver blueprints! :lol: :gun: