← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Hilaire Belloc
Thread ID: 9229 | Posts: 17 | Started: 2003-08-23
2003-08-23 06:22 | User Profile
** [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=1&u=/ap/20030823/ap_on_re_us/ten_commandments]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...en_commandments[/url]
Alabama Justice Suspended Over Monument
By BOB JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
MONTGOMERY, Ala. - Alabama's chief justice was suspended Friday for his refusal to obey a federal court order to remove his Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of his courthouse.
Roy Moore was automatically suspended with pay when the nine-member Judicial Inquiry Commission referred an ethics complaint against him to the Court of the Judiciary, which holds trial-like proceedings and can discipline and remove judges.
Ruby Crowe, an assistant clerk working with the court, said Moore will have 30 days to respond.
Moore met with the commission earlier Friday as about 100 of his supporters, several blocks away at the federal courthouse, ripped and burned a copy of U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson's order for the monument's removal.
Moore said he told the commission that he upheld his oath of office by acknowledging God. Moore has said Thompson has no authority to tell the state's chief justice to remove the monument.
Moore had no immediate comment after his suspension was announced. His spokesman, Tom Parker, said Moore's attorneys would respond to the complaint Monday.
Although Moore's supporters have said they will try to prevent court officials from moving the monument, Moore's attorneys offered assurances that their client will not interfere with the removal during a conference call Friday with Thompson, two plaintiffs' attorneys who also took part in the call said.
A Moore spokesman said Friday that the justice still intends to formally appeal the order to the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites).
Attorney General Bill Pryor said the public corruption and white collar crime unit in his office will handle the prosecution of Moore, who cannot perform any judicial duties while disqualified. Pryor said senior Associate Justice Gorman Houston will perform the chief justice's duties.
"I'm not happy we have to deal with these matters, but it is part of our duties and we will continue to do so," Pryor said.
Thompson ruled last year that the monument, installed by Moore in a highly visible public spot in the Alabama Judicial Building, violates the Constitution's ban on government promotion of a religious doctrine.
Thompson had ordered the monument removed by Wednesday ââ¬â the same day the U.S. Supreme Court rejected Moore's appeal for an emergency stay.
The state Supreme Court's eight associate justices, meanwhile, overruled Moore and ordered the monument out of the rotunda.
Joe Conn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which sued to remove the monument, said Moore brought the suspension on himself.
"He knew all along that state court judges cannot defy the federal courts and yet he went ahead with this anyway," Conn said.
A Moore supporter, Alabama Christian Coalition president John Giles, said the commission was "trying to take down one of America's finest."
The monument remained in the rotunda Friday as court officials discussed where in the building the 5,300-pound granite marker could be moved and given proper security. Thompson said it could be moved to a private place in the building.
The ethics complaint, filed by Montgomery lawyer Stephen Glassroth, now goes to the Court of the Judiciary, a panel currently made up of four judges, three lawyers and two non-lawyers that has handled numerous judicial ethics cases.
Attorneys who sued to get the monument out of the rotunda, meanwhile, put their contempt filing against Moore on hold, now that Alabama Supreme Court associate justices have agreed to move the marker.
Moore supporters have held an around-the-clock vigil since Wednesday, and said they planned to continue to prevent the monument from being moved.
On Friday, about 100 protesters moved from the steps of the judicial building to a sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse, where Thompson works. Some ripped to pieces and burned a copy of Thompson's ruling. Demonstrators also held a mock trial, in which Thompson was charged with breaking the law of God.
"We hold you, Judge Thompson, and the United States Supreme Court in contempt of God's law," said Flip Benham, director of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue.
Inside the state judicial building, court officials were trying to determine where the monument would go and when it would be moved.
Ayesha Khan, an attorney for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, one of the groups seeking removal of the monument, said Thompson told the parties in a conference call Friday that he would schedule another conference call for late next week. She said plaintiffs would drop their request to hold Moore in contempt, or fine the state, if the monument is moved by then.
"Our concern all along has been compliance with the Constitution. Once the monument has been removed, our concerns will have been addressed," she said.
Khan said the attorney general, speaking for the eight associate justices who overruled Moore, told Thompson that building officials were looking for the best location for the monument and considering security problems that might occur because of the ongoing demonstrations.
One of the demonstrators, retired Birmingham school teacher Murray Phillips, said she knows the monument will probably be gone from the rotunda soon.
"I'm upset, but I'm not surprised. At least I am going to be able to say to my grandchildren that at least I tried to do something," Phillips said. **
:thd: :thd: I guess they can't stand a Judge who actually stands for justice!
2003-08-23 14:48 | User Profile
Saw a few minutes of Morris Dees, accompanied by a sterotypical-looking Jewish dwarf, on CNN last night.
He kept referring to himself as a Southern Baptist, but he sure as heck isn't like any SB I've ever known. If it's true, then the SBs oughta get him out of the church, post-haste.
I won't repeat his nauseating platitudes and doublespeak, but all in all, his appearance was eminently puke-worthy.
2003-08-25 19:05 | User Profile
It's not Christianity our enemies hate so. It's the cultural traditions of White people. This whole thing is a proxy war. Now, if we could get Whites to start fighting the real ones.
2003-08-25 20:22 | User Profile
I disagree. It's most certainly Christianity they hate (altho, they hate white culture as well)
-Jay
2003-08-27 02:25 | User Profile
Anything that infuriates these Christians out of their customary bovine stupor is to the good. Maybe they've become fed up with eating the sh-t dished out by the jew-controlled fed gummint at long last, but I have my doubts. Listening to them pule "but what about Dr. Kang?!" when accused by their enemies of disobeying the law is enough to give me the dry heaves.
Moore & his supporters would have a far more hard-hitting argument if, rather than throwing their hands in the air and invoking Jesus every time they open their tater traps, they denied the right of the "Supreme" Court stick their hooked snouts into the affairs of the states. The clear intention of the Founding Fathers was to limit that august body of caftanned fartbags to deciding the constitutionality of federal laws. This can be proven. And besides - what the hell is the Alabama "Supreme" Court supposed to be supreme over, if not Alabama law? It's nobody's damn bidness if Alabamians want to put the Ten Commandments or a statue of Bob's Big Boy in there.
But of course, I realize that in the end it all comes down to force and who's willing to use it.
2003-08-27 05:31 | User Profile
N.B.,
I couldn't agree with you more. A little less invoking of Jesus and more constitutional law would go along way here. One of the few comments that I have heard made along these lines that made sense other than what you wrote above is from a leftist named Ron Kuby. When he was asked about this his reply was that this was settled at Appromattox. Unfortunately, he's right in a de facto sense. Right does make its own right, though, as far as I'm concerned, it hasn't settled a damn thing. I hope that these people would forget about what M.L.K. did and worry more what they are going to do in the near future.
Frankly, I hope they create one hell of a mess for the feds and even more important, indirectly by their actions, moke out the tribe that has made these events necessary to begin with. Between crap like this at home and crap like that overseas I think more folks are starting to get the picture.
2003-08-27 06:20 | User Profile
*Originally posted by N.B. Forrest@Aug 26 2003, 21:25 * ** But of course, I realize that in the end it all comes down to force and who's willing to use it. **
N.B. you've captured my thoughts on the matter with this statement. Judge Moore's constitutional/legal arguments are airtight as far as I'm concerned, but protesting to correct 'rules of law' only take one as far as the firepower you have backing you up. That's the bottom line and if you take it out of the equation, the 'law' really is whatever one federal judge says it is.
Our forefathers once knew this. Question is, will we remember and act accordingly.
2003-08-27 14:50 | User Profile
[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/LAW/08/27/ten.commandments/story.monument.removed.jpg[/img]
But of course, I realize that in the end it all comes down to force and who's willing to use it.
The protestors manifestly aren't. This morning, as workers began prying on the monument with a crowbar, all the assembled faithful, apparently numbering in the hundreds, simultaneously fell to their knees in prayer at the behest of, to be honest, a rather wimpy-sounding preacher. Now there's nothing wrong with that, but that's all they did.
No rushing the lobby, no outrage, no noise of any kind. Tears flowed, but nary a shout.
I include myself, BTW. I did nothing, and it's starting to smart, since the issues at stake here are far more than 5,200 pounds of mere stone, or even if God's law is to be displayed in the very place where "justice" founded on that law is to be dispensed. Nope, the very ability of Whites to determine their destiny, even their very right to survive is being ground into the dust right before our eyes, live on national TV. Perhaps y'all think I'm making too big a deal out of this, but the sheer chutzpah of this move has me gaping and bodes very, very ill. We are seeing the final assault begin on the White and Christian institutions of this country, this monument flap being merely one of the more visible examples. Jews and their allies have finally tipped past the point of having to disguise their actions and now come out and arrogantly impose their will on the bovine majority since they, correctly, surmise that the most opposition to their tikkun olam-ing they will face here is some tears and soft sobbing (the gnashing of teeth having been declared in violation of noise ordinances) instead of torches, pitchforks and bullets.
Whatever happened to the concept of righteous wrath? Have we turned the other cheek for so long that our backsides are permanently pointed skyward?
When the tanks roll, they'll prostrate themselves on the road and make good lubrication for the treads.
God save us from our sheeplike state, 'cause we just missed to last turnoff on the toboggan ride to Hell. Pretty soon, you'll know how it feels to be a f**king Palestinian.
2003-08-29 06:27 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]Act Sparks Protest U.S. apologizes for removing flag[/SIZE]
August 15, 2003
Baghdad, Iraq - U.S. occupation forces in Iraq apologized yesterday for provoking an angry protest in Baghdad's biggest Shia Muslim slum after an Army helicopter appeared to remove a religious banner flying from a tower. The incident sparked a demonstration in which troops shot dead an Iraqi who fired a rocket at them.
Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez issued the apology and said the military is investigating a recent spate of accidental killings of Iraqi civilians that are fueling resentment against the U.S.-led occupiers.
Thousands of Iraqis massed in the streets of Baghdad's Sadr City, a vast warren where the helicopter incident took place Wednesday. The craft hovered at the top of a radio antenna tower festooned with flags bearing the names of religious figures and institutions. Witnesses said a soldier reached out of the craft to remove a banner. ...
The incident ignited a day of anger and fervor in Sadr City, a Shia neighborhood already on edge. Protesters incensed at what they saw as a religious insult poured out of houses and shops.
Soon after the incident, a U.S. patrol encountered protesters and shot into the crowd after a man fired a rocket-propelled grenade at them. Sanchez said the attacker was killed and four others were injured by the U.S. fire.
[url=http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-woiraq153414979aug15,0,4729044.story]LINK[/url]
2003-08-29 06:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by MadScienceType Pretty soon, you'll know how it feels to be a fking Palestinian.**
If Christians were more like Palestinians we wouldn't be in the shite we're in now.
[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030827/s/1062000819.2818973736.jpg[/img][img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030827/s/1062005698.2953011285.jpg[/img][img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030827/lthumb.1061996669.ten_commandments_aldm613.jpg[/img]
[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030827/i/1061994792.2483519529.jpg[/img][img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030828/capt.1062090711.topix_mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl103.jpg[/img]
2003-08-29 15:52 | User Profile
If Christians were more like Palestinians we wouldn't be in the shite we're in now.
Sadly, I have to agree. Xmetalhead made the point that Christianity has been turned from an excellent ingroup moral basis to the licensing of outgroup predation. It's suicide. (as practiced by the majority, TD and weisbrot! ;) )
Your post is an interesting study in contrasts.
2003-08-29 18:22 | User Profile
Yes, Christianity looks more and more like a suicide cult.
One explanation is that Christians in America are given the option of comfort in exchange for keeping their faith private. In occupied lands, militaries don't offer such an option. Where there is military occupation, comfort only comes by being a collaborator which is too high a price for many people.
2003-08-29 20:06 | User Profile
That's a good point that I hadn't considered.
Witnesses said a soldier reached out of the craft to remove a banner.
By the way, I saw a (very tiny) article in the paper today in which Gen Abazaid (sp?) confirmed this witness statement.
2003-08-29 22:38 | User Profile
** Witnesses said a soldier reached out of the craft to remove a banner.
By the way, I saw a (very tiny) article in the paper today in which Gen Abazaid (sp?) confirmed this witness statement.**
Yup, it sounds like the soldiers in the chopper were trying to pick up a souvenir...
2003-08-29 23:21 | User Profile
If Moore's 'flock' resorts to violence, we all lose. If they start Naming the Jew, and telling the truth about him, we'll all live happier lives.
That would require Bible Belt evangelicals to reject dispensationalism, specifically the pre-tribulation rapture and the millennium.
Just so you know, there are some serious theological problems in dispensationalism not related to its eschatology that the dispensationalists are aware of. In academic circles and places like Dallas Theological Seminary (the dispensational epicenter of America) they are revising doctrine to marry covenant theology to pre-millenialism (to retain support for national Israel). They call this "progressive dispensationalism" to distance themselves from Reformed Protestants and it will probably be the dominant doctrine among evangelicals in the next 10-15 years.
IMHO, if the evangelicals adopt covenant theology they will be forced to reckon with the fact that promises made to the Jewish people have been literally fulfilled in the person of Christ and in the Church, and that to look for physical fulfillment is to miss what separates the New from the Old Testament. They may try to suppress this truth, but there is no way in covenant theology to avoid the fact that national Israel is irrelevant.
If you wanna know more about this, check out the audio sermon I posted in the dispensationalism section of Christianity.
Look for increasing villification of a neo-Calvinist theologian named John Piper by Christian Zionists. Piper is a best-selling author and is steering many towards a post-tribulation rapture eschatology and dropping the Israel fetish.
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2002/041702.html]John Piper: Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?[/url]
2003-08-30 06:24 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 29 2003, 15:50 * Many of the comments here disturb me. We go from the passivity of the assembled crowds directly to calls for violence - rocket launching and the like.*
Truth telling is to be preferred to violence, and it is immoral for posters here to continue to call for violence when the alternative has not been tried. Wintermute
Twisting facts from a news article into an insinuation that someone is calling for violence is a little over the top don't you think, wm? (Not to mention transparent.)
The article was posted to draw attention to two similar incidents which drew very different responses from the offended parties. Some might wonder what it is that makes one response so passive and pitiful while the other is aggressive, affirming, and ultimately successful. Is it the religious belief system or the character of the people or something else? And can we learn anything from this?
2003-09-02 17:40 | User Profile
Coming back to this late, but speaking for myself, I wasn't calling for violence.
No, I don't think it would be productive for Moore's followers to shoot LAW rockets into the Alabama Supreme Court Lobby, Molotov cop cars, or "necklace" the guys wheeling the Ten C's out of the room.
Nope, all I'd like to see is an expression of anger; the slightest sign that the flock realizes things are not just amiss, but Wrong!, as opposed to the resigned weeping. Granted, any anger shown would be carefully filtered from the televisor screen, but you'd think some of it would get through.
Anger can be useful. It leads to the desire to correct imbalances. It's simply a tool, a means to an end. Yes, it can be overdone and lead to excess, but the hammer that constructs your house can aslo be used to cave in an innocent's skull. That's no reason to lie down and return to the earth.
and more importantly, retreat, when people speak truthfully of them?
Maybe that anger could loosen some tongues?