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Thread ID: 9029 | Posts: 25 | Started: 2003-08-14

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prozak [OP]

2003-08-14 13:54 | User Profile

God's crucible

Europe should learn from the US and follow the example of Californication

Timothy Garton Ash in California Thursday August 14, 2003 The Guardian

I have a dream that one day Arthur Rosenberg, the Nazi ideologist of racial purity, will be brought back from hell to sit by the path that runs along the foothills above Stanford University. Let him sit there for an hour and watch them all jogging past: the Japanese-American, six-foot tall and built like a Texan quarterback, the Hispanic-American, the Iranian-Italian-American, the Scandinavian-Chinese-American, the German-Irish-Indian-American, sporting every shade of skin colour and variation of physiognomy, often in quite beautiful combinations. Then let Herr Rosenberg die again, of shock at this irrevocable confounding of Nazi dreams. Californication, to steal a phrase from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, is perhaps the ultimate answer to the problem of racial difference. If men and women were consistently to pay no regard at all to race or ethnicity when they chose whom they wanted to have children with, and those children and their children's children were to continue in the same way, you would eventually reach the point where the premises not just of racial stereotyping but also of affirmative action and "ethnic" quotas would be undermined. Your census answer to the question "ethnic group?" would read simply "human".

This experiment in becoming simply human is currently most advanced in the relatively prosperous, liberal democratic immigrant societies of the Anglosphere: Australia, Canada, the United States and Britain. It looks so easy - just take one man and one woman, and mix - but the conditions, cultural, social, economic and political, that allow these young combo-Californians to emerge are actually complex, delicate and demanding. Even here, in one of the most privileged corners of one of the richest and most naturally blessed states of one of the most open and free countries on earth, the process is recent, tense and contested.

"America is God's Crucible, the great Melting-Pot where all the races of Europe are melting and reforming," wrote the Russian-Jewish playwright Israel Zangwill in 1908. But it was, precisely, the races of Europe that he saw melting together. As my Oxford colleague Desmond King shows in his splendid book Making Americans, the United States' 1924 Immigration Act imposed quotas which perpetuated the preponderance of white European immigrants. Only since that provision was finally revoked in 1965 have the millions of new Americans come in from Asia, Africa and Latin America. In 1960, just 16 million Americans did not trace their ancestry to Europe; now it's 80 million. When Richard Nixon became president in 1969 there were only some 9 million people in America who had been born abroad; now there are at least 30 million. Roughly one in every four of today's Californians was born outside the US. And they come from everywhere. If you look down the line of check-out assistants at Safeway or Fry's Electronics, all the peoples of the earth seem to be represented - and they all say "Have a nice day".

Moreover, it was only in the 1960s that African-Americans ceased to be routinely discriminated against in law in many parts of the US. Attending a concert by the great jazz pianist Harold Maburn it suddenly hit me that this brilliant and hugely dignified musician must have spent his youth, in Memphis, Tennessee, being categorised as an inferior human being. Dr Condoleezza Rice, the United States' first ever African-American national security adviser, recently recalled before a gathering of black journalists how a childhood friend of hers, Denise McNair, was killed in the notorious racist bombing of a church in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963.

What one might call the great mixing is a product of the last 40 years. Race is still a source of the most electric tension in the United States. Until Arnold Schwarzenegger - himself a first-generation immigrant - filed his papers to run for governor of California, the lead story on the television here (vying occasionally with Iraq) was the suit for alleged rape filed by a white woman against the black basketball hero, Kobe Bryant. According to a CNN/Gallup poll, 68% of black Americans asked thought the charge was false, compared with only half the white Americans; 68% of black respondents said they were "sympathetic" to Bryant, against only 40% of white. On Tuesday racist flysheets were distributed by a white supremacist group in the town where he is due to go on trial. The flysheets were reportedly headlined: "Don't have sex with blacks."

The great mixing is recent, tense - and contested. The rightwing American nationalist, Pat Buchanan, has recently out-spenglered Oswald Spengler (author of The Decline of the West) by publishing a book entitled The Death of the West: How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil our Country and Civilization. Immigrant invasions! Adducing some of the statistics that I have just mentioned, Buchanan cries: "If Americans wish to preserve their civilization and culture, American women must have more children." So, all ye Daughters of the American Revolution, lie back and think of America.

Alternatively, one could hope that Californication works: that large numbers of people of immensely diverse racial, ethnic, religious and cultural backgrounds really can mix and blend while yet retaining a sufficiently common civic culture for America to survive as a free, democratic and self-confident nation. No one has ever done it before: not in America, not in Australia, not in Canada, let alone anywhere in Europe. Zangwill's Melting-Pot "melted and reformed", to the extent that it ever did, because there was a powerful and attractive Anglophone culture, to which the incoming, largely European minorities adapted. As an astute columnist once remarked, there were not just Wasps - White Anglo-Saxon Protestants - but also Casps (Catholic Anglo-Saxon Protestants), Jasps (Jewish Anglo-Saxon Protestants) and Basps (Black Anglo-Saxon Protestants). No longer. The incoming numbers are too large and diverse, the Wasp role-model too contested.

The other day, I walked into the Stanford students' union foyer as an Islamic prayer meeting was just dispersing. The young women all wore head-scarves, but if you had only heard a tape-recording of their conversations at parting you would not have been able to distinguish them, by accent, vocabulary or tone ("Ok guys-like-whatever") from any other American students. If there is a society on earth that can still perform the extraordinary feat of forging some sort of unity out of such diversity - e pluribus unum, as the coins say - it is America.

Who, besides the Americans themselves, has the greatest stake in their succeeding? We Europeans do. Look at the demographic map of the world, and you will see one continent above all that needs either a massive baby boom or large-scale immigration to sustain its ageing population. That continent is Europe. Much of our immigration is likely to come from the Muslim world. In theory, it should be easier for Turks, Moroccans, Algerians and Pakistanis to feel at home in Europe than in America, because Europe is just a loose, diverse continent rather than a single nation. In practice, it's the other way round. So we should learn from the Americans. What Europe needs is more Californication.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1018390,00.html]http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,1227...1018390,00.html[/url]

Faust

2003-08-14 14:16 | User Profile

What Marxist :dung: !

Hugh Lincoln

2003-08-14 18:04 | User Profile

The foothills of Stanford? Stanford is loaded with Asians and Jews. The creme de la creme of the multiracial clusterf*ck. There isn't a ghetto boolie or kettle-squating lettuce-picker in sight. What an idiot. Has the writer Ash checked on what's going on in the REST of California lately? That's the real Californication.

Hugh Lincoln

2003-08-14 18:17 | User Profile

This was really just too much not to respond. So, I did:

timothy.garton.ash@guardian.co.uk

Tim, I think you need to check on what's going on in California OUTSIDE the pristine, self-selective environs of Stanford. Here's a clue, bud: it's turning to Third-World sh*t. Declaring that multiracialism is the dreamy solution to California's problems from your perch at Stanford is like declaring New York City's multiracialism a success from the lobby of the Waldorf Astoria.

But then, I guess getting your little footsies dirty by reporting on reality would interfere with your daydreams about resurrecting Nazis for re-killing.

How bizarre. How tiresome. How 2003.

Patrick

2003-08-14 20:28 | User Profile

”I have a dream that one day Arthur Rosenberg, the Nazi ideologist of racial purity, will be brought back from hell to sit by the path that runs along the foothills above Stanford University.”

Imagine that...

.....A nazi joo...

”Let him sit there for an hour and watch them all jogging past: the Japanese-American, six-foot tall and built like a Texan quarterback, the Hispanic-American, the Iranian-Italian-American, the Scandinavian-Chinese-American, the German-Irish-Indian-American, sporting every shade of skin colour and variation of physiognomy, often in quite beautiful combinations. Then let Herr Rosenberg die again, of shock at this irrevocable confounding of Nazi dreams.”

.....All bastard mamzers, (mongrels), according to Our Father; YHVH sanctions Nations, (yes, Virginia, there is a stringent racial implication in this term), and He instructed the caucasian Israelites to “be ye separate!”... He called it “confusion” to blend, and warned of the cosequences; this is why Abraham, (a caucasian, as opposed to a “jew”), was so abhorred at the thought of his progeny taking a wife from among the Canaanites, (“jews”)...

”Californication, to steal a phrase from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, is perhaps the ultimate answer to the problem of racial difference.”

.....No, actually, it is the “jewish” answer and what they have sought to do since the beginning of their assault against Israel, (read: caucasians); the real answer is to listen to Our Father, and see to it not one of them “rules over us”, nor sits in judgement of us, nor even sits down to eat with us... Why do you think the lunch counters used to be segregated? Why were they integrated? Answer, please...

”If men and women were consistently to pay no regard at all to race or ethnicity when they chose whom they wanted to have children with, and those children and their children’s children were to continue in the same way, you would eventually reach the point where the premises not just of racial stereotyping but also of affirmative action and “ethnic” quotas would be undermined. Your census answer to the question “ethnic group?” would read simply “human”.”

.....If this isn’t dialectical thinking, there is no such thing; is this “author” a communist “jew”, or just another of their marching moronic dupes?

””America is God’s Crucible, the great Melting-Pot where all the races of Europe are melting and reforming,” wrote the Russian-Jewish playwright Israel Zangwill in 1908.”

.....Melting-pot my tailpipe; this is the result of the lie that that sorry “jewish” whore had affixed to the statue of liberty...

”But it was, precisely, the races of Europe that he saw melting together. As my Oxford colleague Desmond King shows in his splendid book Making Americans, the United States’ 1924 Immigration Act imposed quotas which perpetuated the preponderance of white European immigrants. Only since that provision was finally revoked in 1965 have the millions of new Americans come in from Asia, Africa and Latin America.”

.....Take a look around and tell me how we’re better off with the bloods and the crips, beanie babies in every wall-mart lot being the foul-breeders that they are and cat-calling the women, or the filth that passes for “music” called “rap”; idiots like this writer should be deported...

”In 1960, just 16 million Americans did not trace their ancestry to Europe; now it’s 80 million. When Richard Nixon became president in 1969 there were only some 9 million people in America who had been born abroad; now there are at least 30 million. Roughly one in every four of today’s Californians was born outside the US. And they come from everywhere. If you look down the line of check-out assistants at Safeway or Fry’s Electronics, all the peoples of the earth seem to be represented - and they all say “Have a nice day”.”

.....Is this the esoteric to themselves? Want to know where that question comes from? When the “jewish” butchers stood ankle-deep in blood and body parts murdering the Christian Russians, at the end of the shift, when they passed off their respective implement of murder, they told the next “jewish” murderer to “have a nice day of murder”; they’re murdering our country and performing genocide on our race with the immigration policies and saying it all over again...

”Moreover, it was only in the 1960s that African-Americans ceased to be routinely discriminated against in law in many parts of the US. Attending a concert by the great jazz pianist Harold Maburn it suddenly hit me that this brilliant and hugely dignified musician must have spent his youth, in Memphis, Tennessee, being categorised as an inferior human being. Dr Condoleezza Rice, the United States’ first ever African-American national security adviser, recently recalled before a gathering of black journalists how a childhood friend of hers, Denise McNair, was killed in the notorious racist bombing of a church in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963.”

.....I’ll answer the above question for you; the lunch counters were segregated to keep from violating YHVH’s Law... with people who lie, who cheat, who murder, who fornicate, “with such, knowest not to eat”; the reason the “jews” pushed to overturn this was to get us to violate YHVH’s Laws, whereby He would do as He promised and destroy us Himself, and all according to their plan, (read Antiquities, 4: 6, 6)...

”What Europe needs is more Californication.”

.....Sure it does; never mind that “fornication” meant “race-mixing” in Scripture... there were a number of individuals that “fooled around” without being referred to as a “fornicator”, but who reads it closely? Look at Portugal in the 15th century and see what the “jewish” immigration strategy got them; a third-rate mess of a place compared to prior-to... the scenario plays out before your eyes; most of the marching morons are too stupid to even consider the ramifications... some of those that have blame it on Christians, when The God of Israel told them better, yet they are too sottish to listen... What do you think Our Father meant when He prohibited "adulteration"?

Raina...

.....The "jews" are teaching their people against mixing...

Leveller

2003-08-14 23:30 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Hugh Lincoln@Aug 14 2003, 18:17 * ** This was really just too much not to respond. So, I did:

timothy.garton.ash@guardian.co.uk

Tim, I think you need to check on what's going on in California OUTSIDE the pristine, self-selective environs of Stanford. Here's a clue, bud: it's turning to Third-World sh*t. Declaring that multiracialism is the dreamy solution to California's problems from your perch at Stanford is like declaring New York City's multiracialism a success from the lobby of the Waldorf Astoria.

But then, I guess getting your little footsies dirty by reporting on reality would interfere with your daydreams about resurrecting Nazis for re-killing.

How bizarre. How tiresome. How 2003. **

Nice mail Hugh. :th:

madrussian

2003-08-14 23:40 | User Profile

Taking Stanford as a reflection of California is indeed silly. Stanford, by the way, is full of mediocre students, who got there by unnounced racial quotas and/or connections. I've known two Asian Stanford graduates who were very average. Also, if an Asian or Indian becomes a professor, they can discriminate and pick only students of their ethnicity as much as they want. A Chinese professor with all Chinese students, or an Indian professor with all Indian students, is everyday occurance. Sure third-worlders enjoy the fruits of "diversity" and "multiculturalism" (which really means taking away opportunities and power from more deserving whites) without practiciing it themselves.

prozak

2003-08-15 01:49 | User Profile

Originally posted by Raina@Aug 14 2003, 12:17 * ** What does "God" have to do with the reunification of modern humanity into one ethnic group? In fact, religion is one of the main factors obstructing* reunification. I would even argue that such a process is unworkable without global secularization & modernization.

The Californication of humanity will (fortunately) mean the disappearance of Jews as a distinct group. I doubt Israel Zangwill would have approved. **

No, because Jews will resist this as they always have; further, as they are products of mixed race, they will assimilate new DNA while retaining their cultural identity.

You're completely wrong about religion, which is the root of egalitarianism, but I'm sure someone at a junior philosophy site can point you to the right resources.

Patrick

2003-08-15 03:45 | User Profile

"You're completely wrong about religion, which is the root of egalitarianism, but I'm sure someone at a junior philosophy site can point you to the right resources."

.....While I would agree in principle, I would only so do with the stipulation that Christianity not be included with "religion"; it is a bastardized form of all "religions", an amalgam, that does the whore's work in this regard... it is not the teachings of Scripture that have brought about egalitarianism, (nor "religion, whoredom that it is), but the talmud; until the distinction is made that true Christianity is nothing at all as it is understood, (it ain't what we don't know, but what we know that ain't so), in common parlance... I submit that when you rail against the "judeo" variety, (no such thing), you should so stipulate... they do not represent the Christian that is truly Scripturally based, (that would be me)... :)

Bardamu

2003-08-15 13:56 | User Profile

Californicate Israel and watch millions of dead rabbis squirm in their graves, Mr Ash.

jay

2003-08-15 15:10 | User Profile

Mad, I don't agree that Stanford grads are "average" No way. Their test scores are still sky-high. I think the term "average" refers to the whole population. And I run into dolts quite often. Remember, half our population barely reads at high school grad level.

-Jay

madrussian

2003-08-15 16:06 | User Profile

I agree they are, on average, better. I was talking about grad school graduates of Asian descent though I personally knew. When the number of positions is limited, and a considerable number of them get filled out of some "diversity" and other criteria not based on merit (personal references, nepotism, ethnic chroniism etc.), you end up with wasting valuable resources on mediocrities.

Campion Moore Boru

2003-08-15 19:22 | User Profile

Jay:

I know in my day that many colleges and grad schools are allowed, by law, to falsely misrepresent their median SAT/LSAT scores. If a university accepted a student for "diversity" purposes, they could choose not to include that students test scores in the pool from which their median is determined. Not all schools chose to do this, but why not? It only makes your school look more elite.

The Georgetown Law example was where a student broke into the Registrar and gathered up the people of colours' LSAT scores. They were uniformly 20 percentile ranks below Whitey's. Note, that's percentile, not score itself- which is even worse.

madrussian

2003-08-15 19:38 | User Profile

I'll also add that despite the (false) image of a hard-working talented third-worlder, the most driven and talented individials at my work are either Americans, or from Europe or some other countries other than India and China. India and China, in my experience, is a source of very mediocre engineers and scientists, when averaged over the whole immigration population. In other words, while naturally there are exceptional individials among the hordes inundating the US, the share of mediocrities among the immigrant Chinese and Indians is much higher.

madrussian

2003-08-15 19:43 | User Profile

Originally posted by Campion Moore Boru@Aug 15 2003, 12:22 * ** The Georgetown Law example was where a student broke into the Registrar and gathered up the people of colours' LSAT scores. They were uniformly 20 percentile* ranks below Whitey's. Note, that's percentile, not score itself- which is even worse. **

Does "peeps o' cahlah" include only accepted underachievers, like blacks and mestizos? No suprise there.

Another interesting story is third-worlders with perfect or close to perfect scores, who took tests abroad, who prove to be much less impressive, mildly speaking, when presenting themselves live upon arrival.

Campion Moore Boru

2003-08-15 19:43 | User Profile

It does give one pause to realize that our current crop of Hindu feces-communionists are the cream of Indian society.

Think the Congo, but with curry.

Campion Moore Boru

2003-08-15 19:47 | User Profile

Originally posted by madrussian+Aug 15 2003, 13:43 -->

QUOTE (madrussian @ Aug 15 2003, 13:43 )

<!--QuoteBegin-Campion Moore Boru@Aug 15 2003, 12:22 * ** The Georgetown Law example was where a student broke into the Registrar and gathered up the people of colours' LSAT scores. They were uniformly 20 percentile* ranks below Whitey's. Note, that's percentile, not score itself- which is even worse. ** Does "peeps o' cahlah" include only accepted underachievers, like blacks and mestizos? No suprise there. Another interesting story is third-worlders with perfect or close to perfect scores, who took tests abroad, who prove to be much less impressive, mildly speaking, when presenting themselves live upon arrival. ** What do you think? The grades scam is practised here as well. At some select all sambo schools, if you graduate you have a A- average. Guess what happens when those gramjewates have to compete against A- grads from Grosse Pointe and Greenwich? :lol: madrussian 2003-08-15 19:52 | User Profile *Originally posted by Campion Moore Boru@Aug 15 2003, 12:43 * ** Think the Congo, but with curry. ** And with a natural combined toilet, bath and source of drinking water flowing through the country: the Ganges river. Is it the vaunted Hindu religion that allows them to bathe in shite while experiencing nirvana and unity with nature? Campion Moore Boru 2003-08-15 19:58 | User Profile *Originally posted by madrussian@Aug 15 2003, 13:52 * ** Is it the vaunted Hindu religion that allows them to bathe in shite while experiencing nirvana and unity with nature? ** I think you err here. You're distinguishing Shite from Nirvana. The ultimate revelation of Krisna is that Shite IS Niravana. triskelion 2003-08-15 20:52 | User Profile If Rosenburg came back from the dead and got to sit around watching the endless stream miseducated cultural bolsheviks of no particular racial background he'd likely say that is was an indication of just how degenerate post-America has become. If he knew about the status of the Califonia economy he's point out out that such an outcome is to be expected when Occidental labour and genius supports racial aliens. If he saw the vast expanse of third world squalor that enguled much of the state he'd say Germany wasn't the only loser in WWII. If he got to come back again in 20 years when the destruction of Califonia was complete and it had become just another portion of Aztlan del Norte he would say that history has vindicated his last statment about the future of America before he was hanged. In all these cases, no matter what flaws his thoughts might have held, he would be right. madrussian 2003-08-15 20:59 | User Profile In the "Russian Empire" article they mention that the population was at about 150 million. Of course, that included the much bigger Empire than Russia today. Still, the current Russian population of 150 million is too low, one century later. That's the real holocaust. And the zhid role in all of that isn't too positive, is it? Now what was that about zhid holocaust museums in the US? madrussian 2003-08-15 20:59 | User Profile *Originally posted by Campion Moore Boru@Aug 15 2003, 12:58 * ** The ultimate revelation of Krisna is that Shite IS Niravana. ** Or, for certain music tastes, Nirvana is shite. prozak 2003-08-16 06:59 | User Profile *Originally posted by madrussian@Aug 15 2003, 14:59 * ** In the "Russian Empire" article they mention that the population was at about 150 million. Of course, that included the much bigger Empire than Russia today. Still, the current Russian population of 150 million is too low, one century later. ** Not to mention the destruction of many treasures of Russian art and culture. madrussian 2003-08-16 15:54 | User Profile No doubt. Russia of a century ago did appear a healthy strong developing society, about to become more prosperous and strong after implementing the reforms. Given examples like this, it does appear that not enough "anti-semitism" and "xenophobia" was the main problem of European and American nations in 20th century. If zhids maintain that preventing another "holocost" is worth policiing the world and destroying others' societies, it would be only fair to apply the same policy to them, wouldn't it? prozak 2003-08-19 18:34 | User Profile I agree there. Russia was a beautiful place and is only beginning to regain the genetic and cultural resources trashed by the Zhid invaders. Of course, I need no reason other than this to Holocaust the Jews: they do not belong in non-Jewish lands. If they can't make up with the Arabs, that's their problem, not mine. And if I choose to sell weapons to the Arabs, that's just business, as Chaim or Schlomo or Henry Kissinger would say.