← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 9018 | Posts: 24 | Started: 2003-08-14
2003-08-14 02:57 | User Profile
[color=purple]Excellent interview in that it puts a recognizable - all too recognizable! - context to Linder's hotly-debated methodology and writing style. I dunno, but I've always found him to be a good man fighting the good fight, and I've further found that his most maniacal detractors seem to object to his honesty above all. by 'honesty', I don't mean that every word he writes is unassailable objective Truth, but that he does not privately hold one position while publicly maintaining another for the sake of appearance. I know it seems crazy to use a word like 'poignant' in reference to Mr Itz, but Linder's singleminded pursuit of the White Whale of Jewry, even at the cost of any sort of mainstream career doing what he does best - writing - is extremely poignant to me. What else does an Outsider Writer like Linder have to cling fast to but his own unique voice, and his "arrogance"? (And what is "arrogance" in this case but a steadfast loyalty to that voice?) These days, the only writing that matters -more often than not - is being produced by men and women on their own dime. The Linder-bashers, for a change, might want to consider that as a stark indictment of the culture and those who engineer it for a tidy profit, instead of reflexively joining the boobird chorus aimed at someone who writes what they themselves are already privately thinking.
In the modern West, Outsider Writers - scribes who hew to extreme positions & approaches - know that inevitably, the marketplace will come around to them; because extremism, these days, is just another commodity to be packaged to a targeted niche audience. And once the packagers have figured out a way to market you, you can be stocked on shelves like any other product, but with an air of prefabricated faux-danger that congratulates the end-user for his "edginess" and "individuality". From Burroughs and Thompson to Anton LaVey and Jim Goad, the cover blurbs apple-polish the readership with visions of black-leather fairy plums: this is an outlaw book, and if you're an outlaw too, you'll buy this. It seems never to dawn on the public that those excerpted raves from the TIMES BOOK REVIEW and THE VILLAGE VOICE and NEWSWEEK on the front and back cover, along with the major-publisher imprint on the spine, automatically invalidate such claims: it's neutered rebellion, full of stage blows against the Empire, and approved (however sotto-voce) by Dr Mom.
Alex Linder's never going to be one of those writers - even if he desperately wanted to sell out, he's not going to find any takers. And that's because, rather than endorsing Satanism or heroin use or violence against women or "taking on The Man" - all safe as milk, all shock-value Guignol puffery that the audience is fully aware is actually stage blood and pig bladders, he is daily goring the one Sacred Cow that will keep the door slammed shut on him forever (therefore the only one worth goring in the first place). Race - and Jews- are the only topics in the West where a select few are allowed to speak and the rest of us, strictly forbidden. Thus the only Outlaw Writers worthy of the name are those who ignore the KEEP OUT signs and electrified fences even though it means Simon & Schuster will never be putting them in hardcovers with hip quotes from ROLLING STONE & PULSE! on the back cover. To be an Outlaw means your name and face go on wanted posters with bounties prominently advertised. You think St Martin's, or Bantam, would ever publish even a non-racial novel by him by accident? You think they might simply momentarily forget who he is and authorize an advance? [/color]
Alex Linder Interview
In August of 2000, a member of the National Alliance launched what was to become the first of its genre, an online news source that appeals to White Nationalists, with daily updates. The website, called Vanguard News Network has opened countless people's eyes, and provides a daily read for thousands. VNN is rated in the top 20,000 websites in the world, on Alexa, which is the industry standard for web traffic. VNN is synonymous with White media, and has pioneered many great things for the movement. VNN actually responds to criticism, and allows it! Even on its own message boards, allowing total freedom to the user and eliminating censorship, which has become rather prominent on the other White Nationalists message boards. White Revolution's webmaster had the opportunity to interview this pioneer, who has become a racialist household name, Alex Linder.
WR: First, I'd like to thank you very much for agreeing to do this interview. Why don't you introduce yourself to our readers, and tell us a little bit about your past experiences in writing for mainstream publications?
AL: Thanks for your interest, Tom & WR. I was opinions editor for my college paper back in the late eighties, at Pomona College in Claremont, California. Had great battles, lots of fun, very eye-opening. Someday all the material will be up on VNN, because a lot of it is instructive, of some historical value, and most of all, funny as hell! The minute you criticize jews, all bets are off; you're targeted for nonstop abuse. For example, Elie Wiesel came to town, gave a lecture. I wrote a news report on it, then an editorial. It never occurred to me at the time that the Holocaust was a Big Lie. I merely wrote that the Holocaust would be a lot less likely to happen again if jews would quit whining about it. Jews didn't like that, or anything else I wrote. I drew more mail than anyone in the history of the publication, and that was as a conservative individualist at the time, not a racist. After graduation in '88, I went to Washington, D.C. From mid-'88 until mid-'89, I worked for The American Spectator, my favorite conservative magazine, and then for syndicated columnists Evans & Novak. I had a great time and learned much. I was sort of an intern and errand boy and researcher. I wanted an editorial position, but it became clear to me after showing the editor of TAS an article I'd written making fun of the term 'of color' that conservatives were not open to racial truths. The editor, Bob Tyrrell, was someone I had a great deal of respect for, as he styled himself the fearless heir to H.L. Mencken, the lodestar in the satire business. After seeing his reaction to my rather mild piece, I started to piece together what exactly were the lines you couldn't cross in American journalism. Until the day I showed him my article, I had not fully grasped that there are things that simply are not said by mainstream writers. I thought people simply hadn't seen anyone with my particular slant. I was 22, and I was learning. At this point let me say that my story, such as it is, will be told, along with those of more than a dozen others, in a book about White Nationalists by Bob Griffin, the great author of Fame of a Dead Man's Deeds. Watch for it later in 2003. Anyway, after a year in pro conservatism, I came to believe that there was no way I could write what I wanted and feed myself. I would have to get out. I couldn't keep my self-respect if the price of being printed were pulling punches. Needing money, I started applying for non-newspaper journalist jobs, and through some contacts got a job with a conservative business publisher, Tom Phillips. I worked for Phillips Publishing for three years as a trade journalist. I wrote about the business case for using various information technologies. I edited newsletters, even created a few. I wrote the occasional magazine cover story, too. After three years, in late '92, I quit and started my own firm doing the same. I did that for five years. I made some money, even designed and hosted a couple trade shows, and had some fun and met some good people, but as the years passed, I grew increasingly frustrated because I didn't really give a damn about what I was writing about. I felt I was wasting my life. There is no place for humor in trade publishing, just to-the-point inside information.
"I felt that after the bloodspills in college between me and the fags and nggers and kkes and WASP administrators, business writing was boring as hell. I'm made to fight." WR: Why did you quit a financially secure future doing mainstream writing projects? Wouldn't it have been easier to keep the income from that, to finance other activism? Perhaps be "Anonymous" in your writings concerning the Jew, and racial matters.
AL: Most people think they are radicals but find out they are bourgeois. It was the reverse with me. I just got to a point in trade journalism, where I realized I did not care about the things that other people cared about -- where they ate, the pub crawl they did over the weekend, how much money they were making. I cared about writing funny stuff and making people laugh, and becoming better at my art, and going after the groups in society who most deserve criticism but never get it. This may be a silly parallel, but in the same way that German vets after WWI could not go sell aluminum siding as complacent civilians, I felt that after the bloodspills in college between me and the fags and nggers and kkes and WASP administrators, business writing was boring as hell. I'm made to fight. I missed it like hell, and, like that n*gger writer said, I felt like a dream deferred was shriveling like a raisin in the sun. In the early nineties I did several prototypes of something I called 'Linder Media Review,' a forerunner of what would be fleshed out in VNN. At that time the Internet was just getting started, and I never could find a way to get the economics right on a printed version of a political publication, a damningly difficult problem. In any case, I simply was determined not to die without getting my shot. I knew very intensely that I could make people laugh and want to read me, but I also knew that no one could understand what I envisioned, and no one would give me a chance. That has to be one of the most painful feelings in the world, and it is one that I would do anything to relieve. Thank god for the Internet. Per you question, which is a good one, I did think along those lines. I thought I would spend some years building up money, and then get into political stuff. But it didn't work like that. I did make some money, but never the huge amount I thought I would. The fact is, to succeed in business is extremely hard. You need every bit of heart and drive and attention you can muster to bootstrap a small business. Not everything either fails or succeeds. Sometimes things simply limp along without failing or producing windfalls. That was the state I was in for years. Then one day I woke up and simply could not write one more article about something I just plain did not care about. I was utterly burned out, after writing thousands of newsletters. I decided to make a clean break and move back to the midwest, and just see what fate had in store. Coincidentally, my grandfather in Kirksville grew deathly ill, and my grandmother asked me to move up and help her out with him, which I did. At that time I was getting back into politics, and I wrote the long essay or small book Blackout, which you can find as a department on the right-hand side of VNN's main page. Blackout marked my return to politics, and it shows a conservative accepting and integrating truths about race and jews, and taking a global look at our Situation. It was meant to show the conservative reader that acceptance of the Fundamental Dogma of modern, jew-produced AmeriKwa -- that race does not exist -- would lead directly, given time, to the horrors perpetrated daily in Zimbabwe and South Africa. Stylistically, I intended to demonstrate what conservatism would look like if it were written out of fear of the truth rather than fear of reception. Blackout was meant to show that conservatism without racism is not conservatism at all, but a liberal designer imposter. And we all know almost every designer is a jew. Cole = Cohen; Lauren = Lifshitz. Blackout's kind of an unfinished symphony, as it leaves off where the heavy jew explanations begin, but I spent a lot of time polishing it, and I still think there is a lot of value to it. Many times I've thought of updating it to show global devolution from 1997 to 2003. One day I probably will do that and publish Blackout in hardcopy.
WR: We all know that you've been a long-term Alliance member, when did you join? Was the National Alliance the first Racial Activist group that you joined? If so, what prompted you to join the NA as opposed to the other various Racialist groups? If no, What group were you active with before you joined the Alliance?
AL: I've been an NA member for 3-4 years. I joined after meeting Dr. Pierce. I had contacted him to point out that Tom Wolfe's "Ambush at Ft. Bragg" characterized the jews in similar terms to his own, what with Wolfe's televitz producer named Irv Durtscher. Dr. Pierce wrote back, and I ended up going out to West Virginia to meet him and discuss editing National Vanguard. As for other racial groups, I was not aware of any. I come from a standard German Protestant conservative suburban background and never knew any skins or racialists or Klansmen growing up. I envisioned racialism as a sort of conservatism with balls, although I quickly found that was not exactly the case.
WR: Many people find Racial consciousness through a lot of different things, some through humor, some through a lot of research. How long have you been racially conscious? What made you decide to stand up, like a man, and do something about the problems White people in America, and all over the world are facing?
AL: I have been racially conscious in the sense of being open to facts about race my entire life. What took me longer to grasp was that treating blacks as individuals, given their nature and reproductive rate and history, would guarantee white genocide, given time. I was raised Christian Scientist, and early learned to despise its view that reality is a function of one's thoughts. I rejected that as a tot, and continue to believe that "reality exists," which is the best definition of conservatism going, in my opinion. I grew to hate anybody who placed distorting lenses between me and objective reality. I still feel that way. It is not so much a question of deciding to stand up as my eventually, in my mid-twenties, coming to see how everything interrelated: America's social devolution, the nature of the jew, and reason even men with seven-figure assets and talent to burn were afraid to say certain things. It all came together from my living in D.C., watching the clown show put on by Marion Barry, and seeing that this richest satire vein -- the behavior of the n*gger -- was never mined. Reading John Murray Cuddihy's The Ordeal of Civility clinched my understanding of the jew, because he put a thousand observations I'd made into a recognizable pattern. He showed the way supposedly objective, "scientific" Freudian and Marxist theories were really jewish pseudosciences engineered to guarantee jews racial advantage over whites. What had always bothered me as a child, something I had never understood, was why all conservative writing stopped short just where it should have begun. Why did conservatives never ask why about anything? Why were they content to describe a few symptoms, then stop? How can you cure the disease without the diagnosis? After reading and experiencing and seeing the reality of D.C. and professional journalism -- and after reading Pierce's ADVs and Yggdrasil's essays -- it all crystallized. I understood why things were the way they were, and I've never looked back. As for "standing up," I don't attribute any courage to myself because I actually think that kind of thing is inborn. If there is any way in which I truly am different from other people, it is that I have extremely low levels of go-along juice. If I'm right, I won't change, no matter how much pressure. I think intelligence is a gift that smart people are supposed to use as a counterweight to the passions of the dolts, and that's what I've always tried to do -- to help people by demonstrating how the true elite, of which I am a member, is supposed to act. As is written on a wall at Pomona, "They only are loyal who in departing bear their added riches in trust for mankind." The problems in America come from the White leadership class abandoning the working class. A loyal White elite must reappear and must lead. Developing that class is the purpose of VNN, which I overtly intended as a revolution kicked off in media form.
"If I'm right, I won't change, no matter how much pressure. " WR: I hate to get involved in all this mess, as I don't want it to be misconstrued as infighting, but lately, there has been a great deal of criticism from many VNN readers regarding the recent allegations following the Resignation of Fred Streed from the Board of Directors of the NA, and from Alliance supporters directed towards Bill White, and yourself. I would think that something like all of this mud-slinging from a certain segment of the NA's leadership would really ruffle your feathers. Especially when you've given so much for the Alliance, most notably a great deal of members, and the $75k+ that you raised for a fellow Alliance member, Chester Doles, who some people have said the Alliance turned their back on. Will this dampen your participation in the NA?
AL: In my opinion in-fighting beats sweeping lethal organizational problems under the rug any day. I'm not going to resign from the NA, but I will not put any more money into it under present leadership because I can do more with those resources myself through VNN. Why should I fund a Kevin Strom-Erich Gliebe dictatorship when they're undercutting me and my efforts behind the scenes, after all the help I've given them and their organization and Doles? I'd have to be a fool. NA has been a continual disappointment to me in that its operations are kept inside a black box, and any criticism either goes unanswered or is met with cries of "attack" and "disloyalty." If NA wants to be a cult for adult children, I want no part of that. The reaction to Streed showed the mentality of many NA members: they shoot the messenger because they can't take criticism. And Kevin Strom overtly encourages them in this weakness with his lies about a coup. When a man with the better part of two decades of loyal service writes a heartfelt letter about problems with his beloved institution and is rejected by many members as a bitter ex-employee, well, the brains and loyalty of those folks are worthless. Because these folks will say the same thing about Strom and Gliebe tomorrow, if they are replaced. Who wants that kind of "loyalty"? My deepest opinion is that NA culture is defective and must be scrapped for a culture that not merely tolerates but seeks criticism so that it can grow. A good example of the mentality we need was exemplified recently by White Revolution's Ben Vinyard who, when my writer Rich Brooks wrote a fairly sharp letter critiquing WR TV's initial broadcasts, responded like a man -- not getting upset and shrieking, but thanking him for his points, agreeing with some of them, and discussing how WR TV intended to get better as it moved along. That is the reaction of a man. That is the reaction of a winner. That is the mentality we must have if we are ever to build a vehicle that can take down ZOG. There's a place in jew Ben Stein's famous book The View from Sunset Boulevard in which he describes social skills at Norman Lear's production company as being the highest order he had ever observed. Great tact, diplomacy and friendliness; superior trust and cohesiveness -- genuine communication and cooperation toward a common goal, which was achieved. We in racialism do not have that. We aren't even in the ballpark. We have paranoia, stupidity, rigidity -- all the stigmata of inferior men, while congratulating ourselves that we are the vanguard of revolution. Not hardly boyz, not yet. We need brains, resilience, trust, laughter, determination. We have the ideas; we need the character. VNN's most important gift has been to demonstrate through our editorial "feel" the way that WN needs to remake itself in order to succeed. I notice that everything seems to go back to character, ultimately. Without trust, nothing. Yet when "loyalty" is used to block legitimate questions -- also nothing. In short, White nationalism needs to grow up. We must grow up to blow up, as I would say if I were a n*gger. Which, for the record, I am not.
"White Revolution's Ben Vinyard who, when my writer Rich Brooks wrote a fairly sharp letter critiquing WRTV's initial broadcasts, responded like a man -- not getting upset and shrieking, but thanking him for his points, agreeing with some of them, and discussing how WRTV intended to get better as it moved along. That is the reaction of a man. That is the reaction of a winner. That is the mentality we must have if we are ever to build a vehicle that can take down ZOG. " WR: I've also seen some negative references to the fact that you live with your elderly grandmother, in order to both take care of her, and put forth more energy, and resources into VNN. That kind of astonished me, because that's the same sort of mentality that Dr. Pierce had, when he lived in a small trailer on the NA's property, and wore second hand clothing, in order to devote more resources into the Alliance. What do you have to say to the people that throw stones at you, for doing virtually the same thing that Dr. Pierce did?
AL: Everything in life has its price. The price of devoting my full time to writing what I want to write is living hand to mouth -- for now at least. Circumstances made it so that my current arrangement helps both me and my family. If people mock that, let them. There is some sacrifice on my part to do what I do, but on the whole I am satisfied, because I proved what I knew about my own talent. At ease psychologically, the frustration removed, I can now create the revolution. Naysayers are bugs on my windshield. They crack, not me. I look at it this way: I can create, from nothing, under very difficult circumstances, something that will shake the world. I'm simply better than the jews, any way you look at it. That is the attitude I've always had, and that is the attitude all White nationalists must have, and more than have it, they must prove it. The jews can't stop me, they can only smear me and censor me. They can't beat me straight up, and they know it. They're cowards and behind-the-scenesters, and that's why we don't need to be any too particular in how we fight them. Politics is a Machiavellian no-holds-barred struggle, and thatz why that "straight up," although academically interesting, doesn't matter. There are only two outcomes: win or lose. Whatever works, works. The jews are in a gunfight with the White race, and we must fight back with guns, but only if we can't find atom bombs.
WR: Unfortunately, many sources say that the Alliance will only last another 2 years, at the most, before it crumbles due to financial strain. If that is the case, what do you plan on doing organizationally?
AL: I make no prediction about the future of the National Alliance. I've done what I could, which is lay out for any thinking members the path they need to go, regardless of my and VNN's involvement. At this point, after seeing the reaction to Streed, with some members accepting Strom's lies about a "coup," I really don't care. I'm concentrating on VNN.
WR: On a similar note, you've also caught a great deal of criticism for working with Bill White, who does not consider himself a Racialist, or any "ism" for that matter. How did you and Bill White come into contact, and how did your business relationship mature?
AL: My backer hired Bill to build and administer the system on which VNN now resides. He also hired him to build ShopWhite, with the intent of using its income to support VNN and associated sites, and our editorial staff. Before ShopWhite went online, our backer withdrew. So, we were kind of thrown together, but in some ways we have a similar mentality. We both get things done, and don't worry about whiners. We've both built sites that attract lots of visitors, and we believe there's great potential in ShopWhite, which we are growing daily and will use as the platform for expanding White media and White businesses in a number of ways.
WR: What exactly is ShopWhite? And why should people do their shopping there?
AL: They should use it because they can get things they want, sell things they want, make money for themselves and their own families and their own White projects -- all while knowing that the fees involved are all going to subsidize VNN and VNN Forum and our staff, to keep us online and help us expand. ShopWhite keeps money out of the hands of the jew and in the hands of the White community. You can do all the "hate" business you want, and we won't turn your info over to the police at the drop of a hat like Ebay will. There's lots of talk out there about what WNs should do, but ShopWhite EXISTS. So I hope people will, like I do, USE IT.
WR: What gave you the idea for a Racialist Market Place? How do you see it helping to advance the White interests?
AL: This was an idea that, obviously, many have had, but making it happen is a different matter. Our backer had the idea, and he hired White to build it to make VNN self-supporting through its profits. Although the backer pulled out, the mission remains.
WR: Some people have said that VNN is "Sexist" or the like, is that true? How did the rumor start?
AL: VNN is aimed at White males. They are where the revolution lies. Any woman who understands and accepts that is welcome. But we will never cater to women or ask them how we should act and write so they aren't displeased. My ass is on the line with VNN, and I'm damned if I'm going to take advice from some anonymous bitching twat who thinks she knows better than me how to run my business yet won't put her own ass on the line. Hey -- I may well be wrong. But if so, get on out there and demonstrate through your actions, woman, just where that is. The problem is that jew-produced televitz culture teaches women that they are never wrong. When you combine decades of this indoctrination with natural female sexual manipulativeness, you get a situation in which many women believe they can manipulate you into anything if they just keep at it. Well, it is a firm belief of mine that one of the greatest failings of the middle class is the way hubbies defer to wifey, and so women who try me on that, and there have been a couple, find that I will not give in. They can whine all day long, but I'm going to do it my way. I have driven two women to start their own sites after it finally got through their thick heads that ultimately I'm going to do what I think is right, no what they think I should do. And that is good for them, because you learn things when you do them yourself. Things that make you humbler and more appreciative of the real costs involved with doing anything, even something that looks very easy from the outside. There are some great women out there who are very sensible and make great suggestions and offer great analysis, which I use quite gratefully. Plenty of women have intelligent things to say, and believe me, intelligence stands out and is listened to. The problem is that some women in racialism are still in the grip of feminist assumptions they may have brought over from liberalism or televitz or college. Because women are naturally illogical, myopic and feeling-driven, they have a hard time understanding that disagreement with them is not "hate" or "rudeness" or "misogyny." And you can waste hundreds of hours playing go-round with them. I'm not kidding when I say that one woman, no matter how smart, can cause more trouble than thirty men. Men instinctively grasp territorial issues, but women do not, and they simply can't feel when they're pushing into the "fight" zone. So I simply won't do it, won't get on the merry-go-round. I'll argue to an extent, and then simply say, "Look, bitch. Go f*cking do it yourself and leave me alone." This shocks them, and sometimes, I really believe, it wakes them up. Feminism is, at base, a chip on the shoulder, just as is blacks' hatred of whites. Both chips were put there by jews. What an absolutely evil thing to do, but politically very useful in dividing race and class. A chip on your shoulder only falls off when you have a change of heart brought on by thought, yes, but also by introspection. A reorientation from resentment to appreciation is what removes the chip. Instead of "You're trying to oppress me!" try, "Wow, look at all the great things you've done for me. I'm very lucky." The best thing I can do for women in the grip of feminist delusions is to tell them the truth, be patient with them, but absolutely refuse to give in to their manipulations. The man must dominate the woman. The man must lead. VNN is conducted in this manner, and it is one of the things people like about us; -- we have the right spirit. They may not grasp all this, but they get it.
WR: What do you think of White Revolution's latest project: WRTV? Any constructive criticism?
AL: WR TV is a great new thing in White Nationalism, and a real credit to White Revolution and a testament to its members' grasp of the fact that WN advances through innovation, seizing the initiative, and cooperating with others. I defer to my technical adviser Vic Wolzek on the details, as I'm on a 56Kb, and cannot watch much tv while at the same time working on other stuff without my computer crashing. But, the broadcasts I've seen looked good. I'd certainly rather get my news from Vic Gerhard than Lispy Tom, the dropout from Canuckistan, or the Texas Maniac. The important things are, first, that the project is underway; and, second, that Vic and Ben are continually working to improve. The commitment to doing it daily is also important, as this brings the reliability people need to take something seriously. I first learned that lesson in trade publishing. If something is done right and finds its market, dailiness has tremendous power. I look forward to WR TV continuing to improve and expand its coverage and viewership, and VNN will certainly work with it in any way possible, including content development.
WR: WRTV is also looking to produce a Skinhead/youth oriented show, as well as a cartoon series, that is a political parody of the show "South Park." Any comments?
AL: Those sound like great ideas. There's never enough funny stuff. Check around -- there really isn't. The "funny" section in the jew store is so hemmed in by k*ke taboos there's no room left for laughter. More room for "White" producers to fill; more markets for "White" marketers to sell to. Go for it!
WR: Again Alex, thanks so much for agreeing to do this interview, and in conclusion, when can I look forward to sending you out a new member packet? ;)
AL: Suffice it to say that I am canvassing opinions from the smart folks out there, and thinking long and hard about the right thing to do for all of us. Thanks again for your interest.
To Contact Alex Linder, you may email him at alinder@kvmo.net you can visit VNN at www.govnn.com or www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com. and ShopWhite at [url=http://216.133.69.199/]http://216.133.69.199/[/url] If you would like to support VNN, please send donations to:
VNN P. O. Box 101 Kirksville, MO 63501
2003-08-14 07:27 | User Profile
Interesting guy. As his fame or notoriety increases, so will attacks on his person. If Pat Buchanan feared for his physical safety during the '96 primaries when it looked, for a time at least, that he might be a real contender, and Buchanan isn't even a WN (altghough he's got more balls than most in the mainstream media when it comes to naming the Jew), then a two-fisted, street fighter such as Alex Linder should be very, very careful. There's no doubt that the Jew will step up his attacks, intimidation, etc. against Alex if and when Alex poses a serious and tangible threat to the Jews' interests.
2003-08-14 13:07 | User Profile
I notice that everything seems to go back to character, ultimately. Without trust, nothing. Yet when "loyalty" is used to block legitimate questions -- also nothing. In short, White nationalism needs to grow up. We must grow up to blow up, as I would say if I were a ngger.*
Grow up. That is exactly how I felt when for three straight days the headline over at Overthrow was "Kevin Strom is a weenie". Other than that, and his dislike of using paragraph breaks, Linder's a viking.
2003-08-14 13:37 | User Profile
Linder's a good man, a genius. Hope he goes all the way. We need more with his attitude and work ethic. Thanks IR.
2003-08-14 18:29 | User Profile
And once the packagers have figured out a way to market you, you can be stocked on shelves like any other product, but with an air of prefabricated faux-danger that congratulates the end-user for his "edginess" and "individuality". From Burroughs and Thompson to Anton LaVey and Jim Goad, the cover blurbs apple-polish the readership with visions of black-leather fairy plums: this is an outlaw book, and if you're an outlaw too, you'll buy this. It seems never to dawn on the public that those excerpted raves from the TIMES BOOK REVIEW and THE VILLAGE VOICE and NEWSWEEK on the front and back cover, along with the major-publisher imprint on the spine, automatically invalidate such claims: it's neutered rebellion, full of stage blows against the Empire, and approved (however sotto-voce) by Dr Mom.
Nicely put, IR. Burroughs and Thompson have great underground appeal, but they are, to put it leftily, commodified. Nobody really knows what either of those guys stood for, and that's why they're safe. Everyone knows what Linder stands for, and that's why he's dangerous.
2003-08-14 21:24 | User Profile
Well, Linder doesn't just gore the sacred ox of the jew, does he? He gores WN equally as well.
Linder has done far more damage to WN than he will ever do to the jew.
Because of his and White's machinations the NA is nearly demolished. They've caused a huge rift where there was none before, and the resulting animosity will take years to die down.
Say what you like about the NA, it was at least an operational WN organization, producing a respectable media output and possessed of national name recognition. About the best we can hope for now is that the White/Linder co-opted board members don't keep us in court for so long that there won't be anything left of the organization to resurrect, no matter who winds up at the top of the heap.
Meanwhile, Linder and White have turned up the slander to astounding intensity, referring to good WNs as "Rat Bastards Attacking an Innocent Woman", that being the staff response to Kitti Molz throwing her monkey wrench into the works. This headline was written by a fellow who has singled out Elisha Strom for relentless public mistreatment for no other reason than to needle her husband.
Now, the White/Linder attempt to blame the NA itself for the havoc they have wreaked on the NA, and by extension WN as a whole, is laughable to me, but other WNs are going to buy their line.
Not so long ago, another member here characterized Linder as a man with no honor, and I objected.
I now stand corrected.
Linder has yet to plumb the depths of his vile and malicious nature, targeting not only jews but whoever he has a hissy in for at any particular moment.
Linder is as bitchy and vindictive as any homosexual in the throes of jealousy; and in fact, this behavior gives one an insight to his relationship with Bill White. He was unable to take the leadership of the NA - had he succeeded that would have effectively ended the organization anyway - so now he will do whatever it takes to destroy it.
I am convinced he is a homosexual. He's jealous - look out. He has a talent for the diatribe and a popular blog from which to hurl invective.
It's a nasty combination.
In sum, anyone who thinks Linder has benefitted WN had better check his balance sheet. He's created a cloud of mistrust, hatefulness, and divisiveness; his hassling of Elisha Strom alone should convince any gentleman that he is a rotten apple; and his campaign against the NA it must be admitted has set us back considerably.
In the plus column? Witty spintros and eminently quotable polemic. And, yes, he did hand over $80,000 of other people's money - not his own - to Mrs. Doles. He and White now claim sole credit for this fund raiser, which is disengenuous to say the least, but, he does get one half a brownie point for it.
I find Linder wanting in the scale.
2003-08-14 21:27 | User Profile
Because of his and White's machinations the NA is nearly demolished.
Pretty weak organization if two lone guys ranting on their websites can take it down, ain't it?
2003-08-14 22:15 | User Profile
That is hardly what happened, Centinel. If derision and insult alone could damage the organization it would have disappeared long ago.
But it's not just the NA I speak of; rather, WN as a whole is weakened by the amplification, thanks to Linder/White, of the already legendary bickering amongst ourselves.
Linder/White have launched a pernicious smear campaign against WN - it so happens to be specifically NA staff at the moment as their targets, but WN as a whole suffers.
I ask you, what good has this done us? Read Linder's "comments" about the NA and the staff. What good does that do for WN as a whole?
2003-08-15 00:20 | User Profile
** jack boot wrote:
I am convinced he is a homosexual. **
D-oh!!
If'n Stormfront ain't as successful as VNN, don't shoot the successor...successer....whichever...
2003-08-15 12:29 | User Profile
On the one hand you say Linder has not created anything, and I agree - nothing useful, that is; on the other hand you say he has helped the WN cause.
I'd very much like to see how you characterize his behavior as helpful. Just a couple of points of clarification, if you don't mind.
And exactly what do you mean, sir, by "crawling out from under a rock"?
2003-08-16 14:19 | User Profile
I realize Mr. Linder is not everyone's favorite, but he should not be casually dismissed. He discusses many areas that other people would like to forget.
After graduation in '88, I went to Washington, D.C. From mid-'88 until mid-'89, I worked for The American Spectator, my favorite conservative magazine, and then for syndicated columnists Evans & Novak. I had a great time and learned much. I was sort of an intern and errand boy and researcher. I wanted an editorial position, but it became clear to me after showing the editor of TAS an article I'd written making fun of the term 'of color' that conservatives were not open to racial truths. The editor, [color=red]Bob Tyrrell[/color], was someone I had a great deal of respect for, [color=red]as he styled himself the fearless heir to H.L. Mencken, the lodestar in the satire business[/color]. After seeing his reaction to my rather mild piece, I started to piece together what exactly were the lines you couldn't cross in American journalism. Until the day I showed him my article, I had not fully grasped that there are things that simply are not said by mainstream writers. I thought people simply hadn't seen anyone with my particular slant. I was 22, and I was learning. **
Prior to the Gulf War in 1991 I was watching C-SPAN with Brian Lamb, Chris Mathews and Robert Emmett Tyrell. Mathews counseled caution for that war, but Tyrell wanted to invade Iraq immediately. I got through with my phone call and asked Tyrell why as someone who evaded the war in Vietnam he wanted to expose other Americans to the dangers he missed. He did not answer as much as spew nonsense.
Alex Linder's exposure to this gutless thug shaped his perception of what is important to Washington people. Tyrell deserves a three year confinement in an Alabama sharecropper's outhouse.
2003-08-16 15:17 | User Profile
Hehehe, perambulation of arthropods, yes, I'm sure that's what you meant.
"I said he hadn't created any of the "division, mistrust, or hatefulness"."
An incredible statement. It's obvious to anyone with a three-digit IQ he has done exactly that.
"He is asking interesting questions which are met by stonewalling on the part of the current NA leadership."
I keep hearing that. Ostensibly Alex was concerned with the NA's books? He demanded straight answers about the NA's finances? And the NA was impudent enough to tell him to bug off?
And his other "interesting questions" dealt with objections to the NA's strategy of media outreach, and the staff declined his suggestions?
And that impresses you, Wintermute, as cause to destroy the organization and taint the reputations of everyone involved, holding them up to public ridicule and mockery?
You think that's a good thing?
No. What happened was the bitchy boys got good ol' Fred in their corner, by an incredible stroke of misfortune, and they leveraged him to make a power play. When that didn't quite work as planned, they set about destroying the organization. The whole episode amounts to playtime for Bill and Alex, all the while proclaiming their righteousness from the Net sewer known as VNN/Overthrow. No good will come of this, despite your framing the whole business as some kind of "achievement" for your Master. It is mere assertion on your part, and I don't see you providing any grounds to back that assertion, aside from your own awakening to racial reality.
Well. So be it. You harken to your kind, Wintermute: Alex and Bill, the Cockensucker Kidz.
And I will harken to mine, such as Kevin Alfred Strom and others who value the legacy of William Pierce.
2003-08-16 22:33 | User Profile
I think its pretty clear by the techniques being used that many of the wannabe new leaders are fundamentally incapable of providing that function. I haven't seen much difference in behavior, past and present, of the organizations being slammed. If the wannabe leaders don't like how those organization always behaved then they should start their own. Starting a public personal smear campaign is a immature and un-european tactic to take.
I'm willing to bet that if the organization being attacked didn't have large money reserves that this wouldn't be going on. I noticed some especially low life individuals are making a big public deal out of some pretty small salaries 1500-3000 a month. If you look at the salaries for leaders for other ethnic lobby groups I think you find those are extremely low. 1500-3000 a month is below entry level for an engineer or anyone with a decent degree that includes the core calculus, physics and chemistry classes, let along for someone that can expect to be attacked at home and in public.
One of the most disreputable critics, the DOC, has publically (08152003 broadcast) stated that he wants people from the organization being attacked to e-mail him so he can compile a mailing list. He is to lazy to do his own homework. He thinks a few taped broadcasts entitle him to a position of leadership and a portion of the cash reserves from other orginzations he isnt even a member of (typical scumbag priest).
2003-08-17 01:26 | User Profile
Originally posted by jack_boot@Aug 16 2003, 08:17 * What happened was the bitchy boys got good ol' Fred in their corner, by an incredible stroke of misfortune, and they leveraged him to make a power play. When that didn't quite work as planned, they set about destroying the organization. The whole episode amounts to playtime for Bill and Alex, all the while proclaiming their righteousness from the Net sewer known as VNN/Overthrow. No good will come of this, despite your framing the whole business as some kind of "achievement" for your Master. It is mere assertion on your part, and I don't see you providing any grounds to back that assertion, aside from your own awakening to racial reality.*
The good news is the battle is over and Linder and White lost. The NA will recover and go on doing what they've been doing for the last thirty years which is broadcasting their message and trying to get white people to wake up.
No doubt you are correct in that the terrible twosome and their followers ("we are all individuals!") will continue to slam and smear and bitch and moan about the NA, but it isn't going to get them anywhere. Their attempt to steal what others have worked so hard to create has failed.
2003-08-17 07:43 | User Profile
I like him. He's funny.
2003-08-18 14:58 | User Profile
The NA will recover and go on doing what they've been doing for the last thirty years which is broadcasting their message and trying to get white people to wake up.
With exactly the same amount of success they've "enjoyed" over those past thirty years.
2003-08-18 23:33 | User Profile
I see, so by your logic we should tear down one of the most long running groups and replace it with something untried. Why not treat it as a foundation to build on instead of something that must be torn down. There are only a zillion different zionist orgs, but there must only be one WN and if its not doing exactly what we all think it should be then f*ck it, tear it down.
2003-08-19 15:43 | User Profile
I see, so by your logic we should tear down one of the most long running groups and replace it with something untried.
In short, yeah.
If, and here's the catch, it isn't working.
Honestly, what has the long-running NA done for the past thirty years? I'm not asking out of spite, but out of a sincere desire for an accounting of the NA's successes.
Yes, ADV broadcasts are fine, and yes, something may happen from Resistance Records (though I doubt it).
Really, though, what else?
The hour is far too late for us to do the same old things over and over again, spinning our wheels while expecting a different result. Isn't that the definition of insanity?
One great thing about the White race is our historic adapdability; the ability to see when something is not working and to either improve it until it does work or scrap it and devote our energies to something that does.
Do you see the post-Pierce NA as an improvement? Yes, I know the interference from the Liner/White faction has got to be a distraction, but were they the cause of problems or did they merely drag them out into public view?
The NA is riddled from top to bottom with informants, ZOG-ites, Nazi-fetishists and agitators. Also, FAEM's Maguire has a good point that the government sure seems to have a hands-off attitude for the NA being the country's "most dangerous hate group." That is indicative to me that the NA may serve the purpose of channeling White effort and anger into harmless faux-opposition groups. That's entirely in keeping with the Jewish modus operandi. Simply put, real, visible threats to ZOG don't last long, yet the NA has been around for thirty years and their sole claim to fame is being linked to dead babies in the form of the OKC bombing and The Turner Diaries. (Yes, I know they didn't have anything to do with it, but the public impression is that they did).
For all its flaws, VNN did a great thing with the Chester Doles Defense Fund, stepping up to the plate when the NA essentially abandoned Mr. Doles and for that, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, in spite of my strong suspicion of Bill White, who gives off creepy vibes that I don't like at all.
2003-08-19 16:04 | User Profile
How hard is it to just put efforts into building up an alternative instead of destroying? Oh yeah, it's easier to destroy than to build, which is why I'm wary of those who seem to focus on tearing down without building up any alternatives beyond a website for daily rants. By their fruits ye shall know them.
2003-08-19 18:22 | User Profile
To be honest, Linder & White's hard-on for StromCo. is getting a bit old, but I don't think the two of them are responsible for "destroying" the NA. If even half of what is flying around about the NA is true, it seems to be imploding on its own just fine. Hierarchy, order and loyalty to the leadership are all noble qualities, but the "black box" culture of the NA that Mr. Linder refers to are valid criticisms.
**By their fruits ye shall know them. **
This line applies equally well to the NA. What in the heck have they been doing for the past 30 years?
I don't know about Mr. Linder, but I'm frustrated that effort is being siphoned off to litter people's lawns, produce some glossy magazines and some admittedly high-quality broadcasts that, unfortunately, few people other than the converted ever hear.
Like VNN or not, at least they're trying to build things. ShopWhite, the Doles challenge and even VNN itself are growing. Beyond differences in style, do we differ with VNN on the major issues? I agree that Christian-bashing is counterproductive, but the message is delivered forcefully, if not tactfully. Besides, the time for genteel discussions and persuasions is coming to an end, if it already hasn't.
And for the record, I don't wish to see the NA "destroyed" nor am I sure that Alex Linder would be the best thing for it (or it for him, for that matter), but I do know that they cannot go on as they have for three decades and hope to make any substantial progress beyond being the preferred fund-raising boogeyman for the SPLC and ADL.
2003-08-19 19:27 | User Profile
Originally posted by Hugh Lincoln@Aug 14 2003, 12:29 * ** Nicely put, IR. Burroughs and Thompson have great underground appeal, but they are, to put it leftily, commodified. Nobody really knows what either of those guys stood for, and that's why they're safe. Everyone knows what Linder stands for, and that's why he's dangerous.*
Burroughs and Thompson were both in their heyday gun worshipping libertarians. Burroughs was good when he wrote straight narrative. Junky is a great book. Between all the boring drug stuff is a narrative tone that really captures a certain extinct (within our lifetimes) American plainsman, Yankee folksiness and anti-guv mentality which was true blue red-blooded American even though Burroughs himself was born an old molesting pedophile. Burroughs sold out to the howling Jewboy, who considered the best minds of his generation to be a few deranged homos in mental lockdown. Burroughs is also responsible for republishing that lost masterpiece of American fiction, You Cant Win, by Jack Black, which is everything Junky tried to be. Oh where have they gone, the Johnsons! Probably what he will be most remembered for.
2003-08-20 05:19 | User Profile
Originally posted by MadScienceType If, and here's the catch, it isn't working.
If we define working as having already delivered up the racially pure, ZOG free world we'd all like to see then I guess you're right. But if we define working as making steady progress and continuing to get their message out, much more reasonable criteria, then you're wrong.
**Honestly, what has the long-running NA done for the past thirty years? I'm not asking out of spite, but out of a sincere desire for an accounting of the NA's successes.
Yes, ADV broadcasts are fine, and yes, something may happen from Resistance Records (though I doubt it).
Really, though, what else?**
They've built the largest racially based, pro-White organization in North America. They've created alliances with other groups in Europe and elsewhere. They publish their broadcasts in foreign languages. They have organized chapters across the USA. They have real meetings with real people. They organize rallies and demonstrations. But hey, I'm sure you know all this. You've already decided that whatever they've done, it isn't enough. Never mind that you can't point to any group that's done more, can you?
The NA is riddled from top to bottom with informants, ZOG-ites, Nazi-fetishists and agitators.
That's a bit of a laugh coming from somebody in the Linder/White camp.
I could be a card-carrying member of the ADL, one of their most fanatical, venom-spewing, anti-European Zionists, go and sign-up at VNN Forum and start spewing hatred against every prominent white racialist, from Sam Francis to Kevin Strom and everybody else at the National Alliance, and I would be welcomed with open arms! And the more I attacked these pro-White folks the more VNN brownie points I'd acquire. And if you think that's isn't what's going on there right now, you really need to give your head a shake.
Also, FAEM's Maguire has a good point that the government sure seems to have a hands-off attitude for the NA being the country's "most dangerous hate group." That is indicative to me that the NA may serve the purpose of channeling White effort and anger into harmless faux-opposition groups.
If the feds had forced the NA to shut down years ago would that then have convinced you that they were a viable white-racialist organization? Do you see any problem with that?
That's entirely in keeping with the Jewish modus operandi. Simply put, real, visible threats to ZOG don't last long, yet the NA has been around for thirty years and their sole claim to fame is being linked to dead babies in the form of the OKC bombing and The Turner Diaries. (Yes, I know they didn't have anything to do with it, but the public impression is that they did).
You give the impression that you think moving forward in this struggle should be a very simple thing and that since the NA hasn't accomplished more (again, ignoring that no other group has achieved as much as the NA, either in terms of longevity, an accomplishment in its own right, or in demonstrable positive pro-racialist change) it must be because the organization itself is seriously flawed. Sorry, but it doesn't follow. Have you considered that maybe it's just a very, very difficult struggle, especially when your enemies have you out-gunned in almost every arena in which you are competing with them?
To be honest, Linder & White's hard-on for StromCo. is getting a bit old, but I don't think the two of them are responsible for "destroying" the NA. If even half of what is flying around about the NA is true, it seems to be imploding on its own just fine. Hierarchy, order and loyalty to the leadership are all noble qualities, but the "black box" culture of the NA that Mr. Linder refers to are valid criticisms.
If you don't like it don't join.
**This line applies equally well to the NA. What in the heck have they been doing for the past 30 years?
I don't know about Mr. Linder, but I'm frustrated that effort is being siphoned off to litter people's lawns, produce some glossy magazines and some admittedly high-quality broadcasts that, unfortunately, few people other than the converted ever hear.**
Once again, if you think it's so easy, give it a go yourself.
Your position seems to be there's only room for one organization, one way of doing things. And since the NA hasn't delivered up everything you want, they need to be cleared out to make room for something else. Can you provide any argument that would support this, that shows why it's not possible for more than one pro-white organization to exist, with each pursuing different strategies to achieve similar ends?
Like VNN or not, at least they're trying to build things. ShopWhite, the Doles challenge and even VNN itself are growing.
Yes, VNN is so important that it doesn't' even appear on the ADL's radar screen. Of course, that could be because ADL/SPLC are perfectly satisfied with the way Linder and White are sowing hate and discontent among white racialists and don't want to interfere.
And for the record, I don't wish to see the NA "destroyed" nor am I sure that Alex Linder would be the best thing for it (or it for him, for that matter), but I do know that they cannot go on as they have for three decades and hope to make any substantial progress beyond being the preferred fund-raising boogeyman for the SPLC and ADL.
It's normal for people who feel frustrated by what they see as a lack of progress to blame the people who've been most visible in working to bring pro-white views into the mainstream, but it doesn't mean the blame is justified.
2003-08-20 13:03 | User Profile
Originally posted by MadScienceType@Aug 19 2003, 12:22 * Beyond differences in style, do we differ with VNN on the major issues?*
Do you consider "vertical expulsion" for "ovenworthies" a stylistic or policy difference? I ask in all seriousness.
2003-08-25 06:43 | User Profile
na Gaeil is gile said:"Do you consider "vertical expulsion" for "ovenworthies" a stylistic or policy difference? I ask in all seriousness."
VNN does advocate "vertical expulsion" of Jews. But hey, so does the NA.