← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Mr. Tsun
Thread ID: 8889 | Posts: 44 | Started: 2003-08-09
2003-08-09 06:50 | User Profile
Triskelion's Recent Projects in the Occidental Cause
(An Interview with Vibeke ÃËstergaard - by Tsun)
American Whites ââ¬â those who admit to that racial heritage ââ¬â argue back and forth about whether it's better to pass out "hate" brochures, post in online "Forums," and "march" in the streets, or to create new media that will win the hearts and minds of their less than enthusiastic neighbors and kinsmen. Meanwhile, on a small island in the North Atlantic, a European National Socialist and his friends and supporters have been hard at work building an actual White infrastructure that includes schooling, construction projects, and even a company that manufactures automobiles!
If you hunger for action; if you want to be part of something bigger than what usually passes as White Activism in America, then read my interview with European Racial Nationalist Vibeke ÃËstergaard (known as "triskelion" to many Forum posters). Vibeke has been kind enough to send some photographs of his recent projects and allow me to interview him about what he and his groups have been up to.
Libertarians might "read and take heed" as well. What the heck! This man was once a libertarian; and what he's doing now are things any libertarian would be proud to be involved in, but (strangely) almost no libertarians ever get involved in ââ¬â mainly because libertarians are good at talking about this kind of stuff, but to actually get something accomplished... you need a National Socialist!
Here's the URL to a page with photos and text describing Mr. ÃËstergaard's recent projects, plus links to the first two installments of our Interview: [url=http://wsd.matriots.com/trisk/]http://wsd.matriots.com/trisk/[/url]
Regards, Tsun (American Anglo-Celt)
2003-08-09 16:08 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 9 2003, 03:08 * *This is all very good for Mr. Ostergaard, who is of a racially superior Nordic stock. I, on the other hand, have an Italian grandparent, on behalf of whom I must claim a special exemption. **
Oh, Wintermute... would you mind turning off that G.D. hurdy-gurdy before you nod off for your afternoon nap? :D
Hmmm.... another thing: I'm attending a housewarming party this evening and I want to bring a gift. Should I bring them red wine, white wine, an expresso machine, or one of those nifty cheese cutters (the type that one finds mounted upon a base of beautiful marble)? Maybe a liter of Johnny Walker (Black Label, of course) would suffice; what do you think? Or should I go the "single-malt" route? The man at the state liquor store tells me the stuff is only sold in boxes during the holiday season. Do you suppose it would be OK if I just presented it unwrapped. Maybe I should stick it into a bag. I don't wish to appear pretentious, you know!
2003-08-09 16:10 | User Profile
Tsun-san:
Good to see your input. I will more thoroughly read what triskelion and friends are doing later. I hope he sets the example.
wintermute:
When younger, I drank at a local taproom that was quiet and allowed for thoughtful discussion. Two older men of distinct Italian heritage spoke of the skill and craftsmanship in building the Roman aqueducts to supply water. These artisans were proud of their heritage and its accomplishments. Today their grandchildren, I am sure, have become Americaninized and look upon this trade as unworthy.
After the Romans withdrew from Britain their roads lasted for hundreds of years - a departing gift so to speak. Eventually they began to crumble. To repair them the English King had to send a mission to Italy to learn the art of brick-making. English domination, if true, is of recent accomplishment. Italian design, styling and engineering prowess is near the top.
2003-08-10 00:51 | User Profile
Hello all,
I should say that I enjoy the dry humor of WM and find much to commend with EG's reflections. Also, I think that the little colaboration with Tsun has gone well and hopefully will enocurage a bit of action as Occidentals in America deserve better.
I have always been a big fan of Italian motorcycles and cars and will say that they have excellent sense of industrial design. Also, the NR activists in Italy are fine, serious people that admire and am proud to call comrades in the struggle. Nonetheless, they certainly have better humor and food then my people who are prone to being a bit to much like Ares hero Spock.
2003-08-10 21:17 | User Profile
Wintermute's post was funny, but he's treading difficult waters because most "serious" people by now are sick of humor as a means to an end - they associate it with the idiot plastic MTV (NTV) culture of America.
However, I think nationalism needs to resurrect itself on the basis of the diversity of tribes, white or otherwise. Nothing wrong with Italians either.
2003-08-10 23:27 | User Profile
If you're trying to foment an activist spirit in Americans, here's a hint: maybe it might be best to avoid bashing America and Americans as slack-jawed morons in every sngle post.
We have European posters here. Nobody hoots at them or characterizes their countrymen as morons. Indeed, we have plenty of American posters here who are highly self-critical of home & hearth (I'm one), yet oddly enough I have yet to read posts from Trisk, Perun, Gaunt, et al, that begin : "The problem with we idiot Germans/French/Russians/etc is..." There's no self-criticism, let alone self-abasement. And we all agree that Euro activism is the superior model.
Ya think these two points might be related?
I personally think US activism is never going to mirror Euro activism for many reasons....some obvious and some subtle. But if you want to smother American activism in its cradle, simply keep reminding everyone, all the time, that Americans are soft, stupid, pliable, guillible morons.
This is not a slam at our European friends or their countries (or countrymen). But, y'know, maybe that's part of the problem. It's like the divide between North and South in this country. Outside of Jews and shabbos goyim, I have never heard a Northerner badmouth the South (and NEVER on a paleo/WN board). I have, however, been inundated with Southerners badmouthing the North on said forums. There's a facade of 'we-must-unite-as-whites' thrown out as a sop, and then the niggling resentments manifest, as the Little Dog has to make a big show of snarling at the Big Dog......even over something as ridiculous (in that they are now utterly immutable) as the Civil War or World War 2.
Go test out your theory. Knock on any door, and greet the person answering it with "Hello! You are a moron, sated on MTV and pro football, but it's not your fault, since everyone in your country is similarly a brain-dead idiot. But I have good news! Here is my plan to turn your country around and put your nation back on the correct course. Now, here is what you should do first..."
When you regain consciousness, pick yourself up off the floor and finish feeling for loose or missing teeth, you can console yourself with, "Well, what can one expect, after all? These people are all idiots!"
2003-08-11 03:06 | User Profile
WM: > ** It was my intention to satirize the lunatic North-South split in White Activism, which I dislike immensely. **
Which you dislike immensely? For gosh sakes! Pass me a kleenex. Has it occurred to you that that's a form of white activism? A nationalist form? Sure, it has its share of unracial idiots, but I don't know how much worse they are than anti-nationalist WNs.
IR: > ** I have yet to read posts from Trisk, Perun, Gaunt, et al, that begin : "The problem with we idiot Germans/French/Russians/etc is..." **
Reread Leland's posts. Or ask him. He's as contemptuous of his postwar countrymen as he is of any anti-German.
IR: > ** Outside of Jews and shabbos goyim, I have never heard a Northerner badmouth the South (and NEVER on a paleo/WN board). **
Of course you haven't. That would be like a yoot kicking his grandmother, whom his father had already permanently disabled. You might not hear much about it in NYC..... because it ain't an issue there? If they'd at least object a little to the elimination of our way of life, perhaps this trend toward thinking of them as foreigners would dissipate.
You should take a break from paleo/WN boards and visit us down here sometime. I laughed til I cried a few days ago when some recent immigrant from northern Amerikwa told me to get off of his beach. :thd:
IR > ** ......even over something as ridiculous (in that they are now utterly immutable) as the Civil War or World War 2. **
Maybe they should be doing something productive, like distributing flyers?
IR: > ** Go test out your theory. Knock on any door, and greet the person answering it with "Hello! You are a moron, sated on MTV and pro football, but it's not your fault, since everyone in your country is similarly a brain-dead idiot. But I have good news! Here is my plan to turn your country around and put your nation back on the correct course. Now, here is what you should do first..."
When you regain consciousness, pick yourself up off the floor and finish feeling for loose or missing teeth, you can console yourself with, "Well, what can one expect, after all? These people are all idiots!" **
I get the feeling that your idea of activism is, if not door-to-door ministering, something like it. IMO it should seek to enrage comrades, enemies, and idiots.
prozak: > **However, I think nationalism needs to resurrect itself on the basis of the diversity of tribes, white or otherwise. **
:th:
2003-08-11 04:05 | User Profile
You might not hear much about it in NYC..... because it ain't an issue there? If they'd at least object a little to the elimination of our way of life, perhaps this trend toward thinking of them as foreigners would dissipate.
I meant among the paleo/WN community. And I did live down in La. for 5 years, and quite liked the South; so it's not as if my only contact with Southerners has been through the eyepiece of a laboratory microscope.
I just subscribe to the theory that people in glass houses should lob rocks very carefully.
2003-08-11 04:23 | User Profile
IR - I don't get the glass house part. How is our house glass?
Btw, come on back down any time. They don't deserve you up there.
2003-08-11 05:25 | User Profile
- I don't get the glass house part. How is our house glass?
No, not you guys....I meant the Europeans.
And before some Euroregular starts flinging invective, I have never (and will never) bash Europe. But the disease of media-saturated myopia that too many WNs assume afflicts only Americans is - and has been for some time now - a Western World-wide phenomenon.
The point that I was trying to make is that you're not likely to win over too many hearts and minds by continually bashing America and Americans. And I'm sorry but I've been seeing a lot more of it here lately.
It's not that such a judgment is completely unwarranted, Lord knows; it's that I see the same symptoms among all "white nations".
Let me put it another way. We've had blacks for 400 years here....like em or loathe em, they were here before any of us were born. But I see news stories, advertising matter, tv programs, etc from Sweden, Germany, Finland, Holland, and other places prominently featuring blacks too, and the editorial positioning is the same as we get here: Racism Is Wrong/Hurray For Diversity/It's Time For (fill in name of formerly white European country) To Face Its Race Problem. Everybody wants their MTV Raps, bro, like it or don't.
And my point is that any freakin' country that, having seen the 'benefits' America's derived from black people these last few centuries, decided to begin importing their own had better think twice and even three times before lecturing the US on our herdlike, mooing, bovine stupidity.
2003-08-11 05:28 | User Profile
*Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 10 2003, 02:58 * ** Tsun, at this point, I give you the secret handshake that means "would you reprint your very excellent 'post more often' post from Polinco?". Now might be just the time for the OD crowd to read that inspiring piece. Before I read it, I was just Walter One-Liner from Free Republic. Now I'm beginning to understand how pamphlets directed the course of the American Revolution.
Wintermute **
Hello Wintermute,
I agree that Americanos nowadays are very unwilling to do anything unless "the teacher" or "the boss" tells them what to do. This state of mind was deliberately installed in them as part of the dumbing-down process. Telvitz is the third leg of the monkey on their back because if they have not seen it on the jew's talumd tube, they have trouble believing it is possible (or real, or even thinking of it at all). We see this around us every day and it disgusts us to no end. I'm speaking for you, me, triskelion, and others. An 80-something year-old man told me the same thing this very afternoon. He said people have too much food; they have cars; they don't need for much of anything, so they amount to nothing.
FYI, I did buy that dude a bottle of Johnny Walker Black Label last night, for his party. I chose the Scotch, because Black Label is THE gift that says "Respect" throughout the civilized world.
And where did this man come from. Funny you should ask! He defected from Saddam's army back during the Gulf War and came here with nothing but the clothes on his back. He went into small contracting, and then larger. It took him ten years to work his way up to having enough equipment to where he needed someplace to store it (dump truck, back hoe, bobcats, etc.) and then he bought a huge old building that was extremely run down. He renovated the outside, so it looks first rate. Then he converted part of the huge second floor into a suite of offices and really laid them out with too much nifty sh*t to type into this little forum box. There's plenty of building downstairs (and upstairs) left for storage, shops, and what have you. Plus, a huge, fenced parking lot. Last night he threw a "Building Warming Party" there, with a couple whole lambs cooking on spits, a keg of Sam Adams beer and one of Heneikin and a huge table of food. Oh, yeah.... his wife was there too. Nice Irish-American girl!
Now this guy is not especially Nordic and some WN people wouldn't consider an Iraqui to be Aryan (even thought Aryans originated there). But think about it. He didn't do anything anyone here couldn't do.... or anything many of your ancestors didn't do (I know, they didn't have back hoes in the old days). So the American Dummy had better wake up and get to work.
Funny story: Steve Y, at VNN Letters Page, thought that when I asked "Why Can't Americans Do This" in regard to Vibeke's projects.... he thought I was saying that Americans can't build cars. Duh! (WTF!) Never a hint in his noggin that the article and interview are about starting businesses among the folk, etc. (WTF! WTF!!!)
Times are changing and I smell a whole different era in the air, so maybe we can all get with the program and RECOLONIZE this God-forsaken, savage-filled hunk of land. I sure hope so. Maybe all it will take is some new "tools." People are working on that, even as we type!
**By the way, I was not able to find that post you mention at Polinco. Do you remember about the year / month I made it? **
Greetings Edward Gibbon! The feeling is mutual.
2003-08-11 13:56 | User Profile
*Originally posted by il ragno@Aug 10 2003, 23:27 * ** If you're trying to foment an activist spirit in Americans, here's a hint: maybe it might be best to avoid bashing America and Americans as slack-jawed morons in every sngle post.
We have European posters here. Nobody hoots at them or characterizes their countrymen as morons. Indeed, we have plenty of American posters here who are highly self-critical of home & hearth (I'm one), yet oddly enough I have yet to read posts from Trisk, Perun, Gaunt, et al, that begin : "The problem with we idiot Germans/French/Russians/etc is..." There's no self-criticism, let alone self-abasement. And we all agree that Euro activism is the superior model.
Ya think these two points might be related?
I personally think US activism is never going to mirror Euro activism for many reasons....some obvious and some subtle. But if you want to smother American activism in its cradle, simply keep reminding everyone, all the time, that Americans are soft, stupid, pliable, guillible morons. **
I agree, Il Ragno. The European posters (I am one) should remember once in a while that the freedom to have these discussions at all is disappearing far faster in the EU than in the US. So who are the ineffectual dolts around here ?
2003-08-11 15:25 | User Profile
IR, I think you're not fully appreciative of US power over Europe. Of course the reins are tighter in Europe, for two reasons. Jewish America knows that Europeans are the only people likely to revolt against their rule. And in the US, there has to be some pretense made that we're still "free", so as to keep us enforcing "freedom" on the rest of the world.
I don't think there would be "holocaust denial" laws or massive Moslem and black immigration in Europe except for the threat of American retaliation. Look what happens when a European country elects someone whom the Jews or American leadership doesn't like. Pressure is applied. It's how Rhodesia and South Africa were pressured into suicide.
A lot of Europeans may be brainwashed, but not on par with Americans. This is why there are serious movements in Europe, albeit necessarily semi-underground, while Americans still believe there's a difference between Republicans and Democrats.
The responsibility for the present state of affairs in Europe lies mainly with the Jewish guarantor, America.
2003-08-11 16:24 | User Profile
**: "The problem with we idiot Germans/French/Russians/etc is..." There's no self-criticism, let alone self-abasement. And we all agree that Euro activism is the superior model. **
Oh Absolutely!!!! Burning down a McDonands is such a poignant statement.
There is nothing different about Euro-Activism. They, if anything, are even further down the road of losing self determination to the one worlders and the UN than is the United States.
No they are not Morons, they simply have fallen victim to the same malaise and cowardly "go along to get along" which is destroying this nation. I any society you will find a few individuals who are self actualizing and forward thinking, but as a trend? No evidence it is growing movement in Europe any more than here.
Tis a Shame.
2003-08-11 21:56 | User Profile
Originally posted by Mr. Tsun@Aug 10 2003, 23:28 * ** And where did this man come from. Funny you should ask! He defected from Saddam's army back during the Gulf War and came here with nothing but the clothes on his back. He went into small contracting, and then larger. It took him ten years to work his way up to having enough equipment to where he needed someplace to store it (dump truck, back hoe, bobcats, etc.) and then he bought a huge old building that was extremely run down. He renovated the outside, so it looks first rate. Then he converted part of the huge second floor into a suite of offices and really laid them out with too much nifty sht to type into this little forum box. There's plenty of building downstairs (and upstairs) left for storage, shops, and what have you. Plus, a huge, fenced parking lot. Last night he threw a "Building Warming Party" there, with a couple whole lambs cooking on spits, a keg of Sam Adams beer and one of Heneikin and a huge table of food. Oh, yeah.... his wife was there too. Nice Irish-American girl!
Now this guy is not especially Nordic and some WN people wouldn't consider an Iraqui to be Aryan (even thought Aryans originated there). But think about it. He didn't do anything anyone here couldn't do.... or anything many of your ancestors didn't do (I know, they didn't have back hoes in the old days). So the American Dummy had better wake up and get to work. **
Maybe, as an immigrant, he was eligible for some kind of [url=http://www.vdare.com/fulford/subsidies.htm]government subsidy[/url].
[SIZE=2]related link: [url=http://www.vdare.com/malkin/pows.htm]Keep Iraqi POWS Off American Dole[/url][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]unlike immigrants of old, the gubbiment hands today's immigrants everything on a silver platter.[/SIZE]
2003-08-12 03:28 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Kurt@Aug 11 2003, 15:56 * ** Maybe, as an immigrant, he was eligible for some kind of [url=http://www.vdare.com/fulford/subsidies.htm]government subsidy[/url].
[SIZE=2]related link: [url=http://www.vdare.com/malkin/pows.htm]Keep Iraqi POWS Off American Dole[/url][/SIZE] **
Hello Kurt,
That is a disturbing story, at the URL you posted. My first instinct was to say this man didnt' get any special treatment, or not much, but when you think about it... an airplane ride to America is pretty special treatment, isn't it? I mean, when South African Whites are kept out, even when they are threatened with murder and mayhem?
The most succinct phrase in your linked story is this one: "..our own feckless State Department (which has, and always will, act like a hostile foreign entity.)
Of course, it's not really our own State Department, is it!
For most of the wars, beginning with WWII, people from the theatre of battle have been resettled here in America. Not a wise idea, tis true.
That said, this guy gets up early and works hard and has a head for business. Seven thousand dollars in benefeits? Geeze, imagine if you could get a welfare "negroe" to become a hard-working, success by only spending $7 K. I'd call that one hell of a deal.
Something should be done about this, however, and if you really want to have your work cut out for you, start now.... to head off the huge flood of stone age "negroes" that the do-gooders will be trying to import after the creatures totally ruin what's left of the White man's civilization there.... and it's suddenly discovered that those nice, traditional "cultural" ways will only support 10-15 people per square mile (on the best land).
2003-08-12 05:34 | User Profile
*Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 11 2003, 20:06 * ** Tsun -
You should keep better track of your efforts. I was able to find this at Polinco under the keyword 'posting' and your name. It was on a thread titled, 'How to be ââ¬ÅFaemousââ¬Â and Improve Your Mind', dated 2-28-01.
I'll post it here, and if this thread goes under, I'll repost it as its own thread. IMO opinion, you should flesh this one out and reprint it frequently. My points of agreement can been seen by how many passages I've gone over with the 'bold' pen.
We have an awful lot of lurkers here, who I want to see find their voices.
Wintermute **
Hey Wintermute,
Thanks a lot for digging that post out of Polinco. I remember it well, now that I read it again. Some of this stuff is still rolling around in my head. I will follow your advice and file this away and revise it (and post it again).
I forgot to mention that I learned to use a semi-colon after reading that Albert DiSalvo, the nasty "Boston Strangler," was so proud that he knew how to use one. "If he can do it, why can't I?" Turns out, I could! But you need more than punctuation to produce a good piece of writing.
I also remember the day I read that "Joe Bob" advice. It was right before his hilarious weekly column was yanked from the local jewspaper. He made fun of the "We are the World" concert. I used to think the man was the funniest thing in print. Before I read and took his advice, I was not very skilled at putting my thoughts on paper. In fact, those thoughts didn't amount to much, because I was never able to develop them.
For example, here's a true event from my late teenage years. I only wrote it down lately:
The Bitter Part of Valor [url=http://wsd.matriots.com/articles/the_bitter_part_of_valour.html]http://wsd.matriots.com/articles/the_bitte..._of_valour.html[/url]
At the time this happened, I couldn't have written a third-rate love letter, or even a mash-note. That's after reading like mad since before the second-grade! And walking the school halls (for years) with a boner, caused by all the succulent young females at hand. Inspiration alone does not a writer make; it takes practice! I would sometime check out five or more library books each week and read them bang-bang-bang (mostly science fiction junk :-) But I couldn't write to save my life. I had daydreams that severely affected my grade-average -- fantasies that would have made great sci-fi novels (or really weird stag movies).
Anyhow..... I don't claim to be a great writer, but I can certainly express myself well enough to lay waste to ANY Jew Ph.D (or anyone else), provided I'm right and he's wrong. And sometimes, even if he's right and I'm wrong! I think that's saying quite a lot. Thanks, Joe Bob! Ha ha.
One more thing. I heard Rush Limbaugh laugh once, when someone mentioned Internet writers. "They are amateurs; they can't make a living at it," he said, "they are nothing."(Or words along those lines). True enough, but as usual, Rush missed the point. What point is that, you ask? Hey Rush! Thousands and thousands of those "Internet writers" you look down upon have managed to use their writing as a tool to boost their brain power and concentration.... until they can see through your rotten, Kosher-Kahnservative Swindle! I don't know about anyone else, but I've never tried to submit writing to a magazine, for pay. Why? I have a day-time job, and interests that occupy my evenings! Besides I'm not a Jew, so I don't get a big charge of seeing my name in print, or in getting paid x-cents per word.
2003-08-12 06:18 | User Profile
And another thing!
"The real secret of the Jews is that they really don't care if their plans pan out or not. What they are interested in, is the looting and destroying. That turns them on. Can you imagine jews having the reins of a total-world-control state? They'd have their work cut out for them. It's so much easier just to loot and destroy. They turn other people's cultures into sht, then repackage it and sell it back, in a huge multitude of little swindles. They are good at that. Running a working government or system is something quite different."*
Being able to come up with something like that just makes me feel all warm inside. I sure don't know how they can call it "hate!" People who smile a lot ââ¬â smile from the heart, that is ââ¬â live longer! I'm not too worried about the Jew being able to pull off his world-conquest scheme. It's going to be pretty damn messy, and many millions of people are probably going to perish (all for nothing), but jews aren't real good at building things in a constructive way. It's simply beyond them. I believe their very fondest hope is that they might be able to bring about a long-lasting era of all-out slaughter, looting, plague... During times like that, a jew can be in his glory. What a stinking tribe of vermin! Most jew "physicians" know so little about healing that they won't even use the word "heal" or "cure." They find it much more to their liking to perform abortion than to attampt to heal. And jews really only enjoy abortion when they can get their hands into the blood: ripping off tiny limbs; shoving a pair of stainless-steel scissors into the base of a skull and twisting them around, then vacuuming out the resulting mess! That's got to be way more fun than liposuction! For a picture of the jew at his lowest terms, watch some of the old Three Stooges comedies. This is what jews do, on a world-wide scale, when they are given too much power and shielded from the criticsm the have coming to them!
2003-08-14 22:45 | User Profile
Good News,
All three of my petite voiturettes have gotten approval from the German TUV (Technischer Ueberwachungsverein or Technical Inspection Association) certifying them as safe and road worthy which means that licensing anywhere within the EU will be no problem and that I have entered into talks with a German and Swiss importer.
2003-08-14 22:46 | User Profile
Hello all,
I am glad to see that this thread has generated a little bit of interest. I have a few things to say and if I happen to over look a point of someone I hope that no offense is taken but that someone points out the overlook.
I am of course grateful for WM's comments as he mentions a few things that are worth considering. I regret that I overlooked the humor of his posts but the stereotype about my lansmen being pensive and melancholy is basically true. In a way, I am a poor exemplar for my kind as I have no nautical skills and zero knowledge of worth while poetry or fine literature although I do smoke a pipe and am fond of puffins so I am not a total loss. My spare time is pretty fleeting but it is spent on fixing up vintage valve (i.e"vacuum"/electron tube) single ended triode amps and making pre-industrial era ales/meads/cysers.
Certainly the matter of mentors is very important and I'd have to say that for they were crucial. When I young a great deal of my time was spent firing off letters to people and organizations of every political stripe pretty much anywhere I could find them and acquiring endless amounts of genuinely rebellious or innovative music and literature. I learned a lot from those epic correspondences and came to know people that have literally been vital to my adult life. In the end however the greatest influence upon me personally (besides my father who was non political) was a Cornish skinhead I knew while going to school in London during the early ââ¬Ë80s.
His name was Tyler Pentreath and we meet while fiddling about a one time famous right wing hangout/shop called The Last Resort (named after a then popular Oi! band) before I was serious about anything. What I admired about him was the fact that he was passionate about everything, hard as nails, better read then anyone I ever knew about politics and utterly selfless in his dedication to his ideals. He would tease me about my accent in a good natured way and always have a quip about some mundane thing like a local pensioner, problems with council housing or so and so's personality and always bring it right back to the crux of some heavy NR thinker in a way simple enough for my 12 year old mind to grasp. He'd feed me endless journals, books, LPs, 7"ers and zines and then tell me in 15 minutes why they mattered to me and our mates. He enjoyed fighting with the local Yardie gangs, pushers and ANAL/Antifa types but he always sought to avoid violence when it wasn't absolutely required.
We had spent endless hours, peddling nationalist A4 sheets on the corner, marching at demos and he was the one that helped the most teaching me about community activism and how to debate face to face. He was murdered by a few Asian (Hindu specifically) drug dealers in ââ¬Ë84 as a result of his efforts to chase them out of his neighborhood. I mention him because when one is fortunate enough to meet a truly worth while person and learn from them that opportunity should be taken because one never how fleeting a life is till it's gone.
2003-08-14 22:47 | User Profile
Looking over the other responses here I see several issues worth looking at briefly. For starters is the North/South split in the states . I lived in several parts of the deep South attending Universities in the states for several years so I have a bit of background in the deep South. I frequently heard Northerners condemn Southerners with open contempt of a clearly jewish inspiration. While one could find Southern partisans it was clear that rabid self hatred was far more common and that the vast majority of Southern particularists (based upon attending neo-confederate functions and reading their websites) were very much in the neo-con mold once one looked beyond the nostalgia for antebellum finery and Faulkner. I never once heard a Northerner complain about the North per say nor express any sense of regionalism outside of attacking other parts of the nation in expressly jew centered terms.
A truly bizarre aspect of American style racialism is the commonality of the patently false notion that the only real Europeans are Nordics, Anglo-Saxons or Celts which is often combined with comic book style wiking imagery, Third Reich fetishes and an ethnic narcissism fixated upon blood hair and blue eyes. Within the German speaking nations and Scandinavia such notions are very rare in racialist or nationalist circles and everyone that I have ever associated with thinks such proclivities are somewhere between chucklesome to psychotic. Listening to a crank like Richard Barrett, or a great many other American white supremacists, condemn Slavs, Iberian and Southern Europeans I see a text book perfect example of how to go nowhere politically while splashing about in an absolutist puddle as unreal as anything Ares promotes. What makes this all the more remarkable is that America should be seen as the beacon for pan European unity rather then being at the forefront of abyssic, mindless hate like one sees in the Polish Occupation in WWII thread here. America has conclusively proven that Europeans of all sorts can effectively work together and create a worth while nation state as a result.
When comparing the states to Europa (in a limited sense) in terms of activism this thread as been a pretty mixed bag. Banalities such as talk about burning down Macdonald (pretty much an activity for the radical left) and the somewhat more relevant matter of censorship have been voiced. With respect to the latter I will say that inspite of state repression and leftist violence one sees literally hundreds of radical nationalist publications floating about (a few dozen of which are worth reading) and I will note that most European nations have successful anti-immigration populist parties and almost as many have excellent, genuine nationalist groups doing very good work. Some nations, ex Germany, UK and Holland, are doing very poorly while others with similar levels of repression like Danmark, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, France and Austria are doing exceeding well in some respects. In the states, the racial right has never elected a single public office holder nor gotten close to doing so. Racialists in the states have yet to successfully produce a decent tabloid (the populist Spotlight was never openly racial and stuck with constitutionalism, alternative health and conspiracy theories) nor produce a worth while theory organ. The largest American white racial group had at it's height about 2200 members (roughly a tenth the size of Forza Neuvo in Italy and roughly the same size as some of the better skinhead groups in that country) which has since fallen to somewhere between 700-1000 payed members. Obviously, some is seriously wrong with the American example and sticking one's head in the sand and denouncing all critics as traitors won't improve things one iota.
In the past, I spent a lot of time going over what I believe are the root causes of the American scene's dismal performance every since the collapse of the second era Klan in the ââ¬Ë20s so I'll just quickly mention that matter again. Basically, the root of the problem is that American racialists lack any sort of well defined ideology.
Most groups simply point out the negative aspects multi-racialism in a crass, ugly manner that appeals to no one (AN/ANP/most Klan groups/SS Action Groups/NSM/Low Rider Nazis/WAR etc ad nauseam) and are impotent by design. Simplistic appeals to nostalgia (ex lets go back to the Third Reich, the ââ¬Ë50s or the Antebellum South) are no the basis for political activism then Ares silly babble about "transhuman" futurism. The better organizations have managed to put together excellent critiques of multi-racialism (ex. the NA, EURO and AR) but they lack any comprehensive ideological view of what they want in place of the current system but instead simply reflect the dispositions of the founders and are basically personality vehicles for who's in charge. As a result, no American racial group has real public policy recommendations but mere wish lists (ex. lets make America all white and restore the constitution). An excellent indication of this fatal short coming is seen by the fact that American racialists have yet to create a single worth while theoretical organ. I commend National Vanguard, AR and The Occidental Quarterly for publishing excellent pieces about the failure of multi-racialism, the science of race and book reviews but doing those things is marketed different then covering the bare bones issues of what sort of society you wish to create and why.
American racial groups lack any sense of strategy because they nothing beyond a distant, poorly defined goal which means that they lack any systemic plan for increasing their influence and, with few individual exceptions, lack an activist cadres. Instead one sees silly farces like demos that allow zero interaction with the public or leafleting runs that accomplish nothing but some negative press coverage. In short, a lack of a firm ideological footing combined with organizations that are mere personality vehicles is th irrelevance that typifies American racialism.
Oppression is and always will part of life for anyone active genuinely alternative politics. In the states repression is typically subtle: state harassment (ex tax audits, being pestered/monitored by the police etc.), illegal actions taken by leftists against racialists will usually not be punished, lose of a job for those "outed" or being kicked out of school. In most European nations (as well as Canada, New Zealand and Australia) those forms of repression are common but the political police have legal mandates to actively oppress dissent. In any case, the matter is largely mute as Americans will soon have no more formal freedoms then Europeans do.
In the end, systematic legal oppression doesn't hurt racialism here as it has almost entirely wiped out the costume fetish set and those that push violence openly of the public stage. As a result, we don't have wacky little cults that do little outside of stigmatize nationalism and help raise money for "professional anti-racists" by being a self parody of "racial hate". However, real change never has and never will come without repression and those that wish to bemoan repression and use it as an excuse for inaction are simply condemning their children to life a of third world misery.
Il Ragno pointed out that it's a bad idea to attempt to motivate people by telling them how stupid and worthless they are and he's right. While I do condemn the Dutch and Belgian scenes from time to time I don't make global condemnations but state what's wrong in a polite fashion and give credit when it's due. I will leave sweeping damnations for those that are proven frauds and obviously ineffective and closed to constructive criticism. I would suggest that others interested in useful activism do the same.
2003-08-15 00:47 | User Profile
*Originally posted by triskelion@Aug 14 2003, 16:47 * ** America has conclusively proven that Europeans of all sorts can effectively work together and create a worth while nation state as a result. **
Sure agreed, though I hope you do not want to indicate your policy would be a "European USA", that is a European superstate replacing the individual European nations? :( Personally, I identify as very specifically Austrian, not generic germanic, let alone European.
2003-08-15 00:56 | User Profile
Hello PL,
Prior to the last two generations of destruction aimed at turning the country, rather then nation, know as the USA into a third world den of misery started America was without a doubt Occidental. I have zero interest in supe states of any form as such a notion is path to rampent state control and the destruction of National Tradition. America needs to restore it's own traditionalism rather then mimic someone else's although I see nothing wrong with looking to mother Europa for some ideas/methods that is a far cry from simply adopting a pattern.
2003-08-15 01:01 | User Profile
*Originally posted by triskelion@Aug 14 2003, 18:56 * ** Hello PL,
Prior to the last two generations of destruction aimed at turning the country, rather then nation, know as the USA into a third world den of misery started America was without a doubt Occidental. I have zero interest in supe states of any form as such a notion is path to rampent state control and the destruction of National Tradition. America needs to restore it's own traditionalism rather then mimic someone else's although I see nothing wrong with looking to mother Europa for some ideas/methods that is a far cry from simply adopting a pattern. **
Hello Trisk again,
I meant I hope you are not for abolishing the individual nations/states in Europe? [My question was not related to the US, sorry if I didnôt state this clear enough.]
2003-08-15 01:08 | User Profile
Good to hear from you PL,
No, I am very much against abolishing the individual nations/states in Europe. In fact, I am very vocally in favour of creating more and advancing decentralization of economic and political authority. I do favour a recognition that all Occidentals world wide are suffering a simelar path towards destruction and that we have mutual interests in resisting the destruction of our nations by aliens. I am very anti-EU and have nothing but hatred for globalism and the destruction of any variant of Occidental Traditionalism.
2003-08-15 01:16 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 14 2003, 18:59 * ** That both communities made a place for homosexuality, but strongly* limited it, is instructive. I think modern cultures have something to learn from this. **
Err, the Roman Republic was pretty Puritan I believe, and the Empire was simply sick.
As to the Greeks, maybe Iôve read the wrong books, but I had the impression homosexuality was quasi-obligatory. [And obligatory, simple, in Sparta, where it was part-and-parcel of the agoge. Ugh.] One who was totally against it would have been viewed as weird in Greece. In short, no, imitating the Greeks on this only over my dead body.
I am not for totally suppressing homosexuality, but only for 3 reasons which will not please Raina: 1) Itôs not worth the effort. 2) A certain -limited- amount of tolerance is, in this matter, eugenic, because the homosexuals wonôt have kids. 3) Pity for the sick.
But this kind of tolerance would emphatically not allow for any kind of homosexual culture, Greek or otherwise. Tolerance only as long as nothing from those seriously twisted people is to be publicly heard or seen!
2003-08-15 09:52 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 14 2003, 19:31 * ** He also supports capital punishment for pedophiles. **
Who here doesn't?
2003-08-15 17:35 | User Profile
It is viscerally sickening to listen to Raina talk about "child-love" and her sexual desires for children which she would act on (assuming she hasn't already) if it was legal. While statutory rape may not be violent it is always rape and those that desire to engage in pedophilia are positively sub-human as far as I am concerned. When I see comments like hers and I note that the legalization of "child-love" is a major public policy agenda item for her depraved kind my natural instinct to return to the moderate suppression/stigmatization of sexual sociopaths seems hopeless weak and suicidally dangerous for society. While I believe that my ancestors were excessively brutal for their practice of drowning adulterers/adulteresses and others that engaged in sexual conduct that undermined society listening to Raina makes me waiver in that regard.
A less outrageous issue but one worth mentioning is that this thread is not intended for a debate about pedophilia but rather about the matters raised in the opening post. I am very annoyed that Raina has diverted the discussion totally off topic and on to her noxious perversion. I respectfully request that those wishing to post to this, or any other thread, don't actively attempt to divert debate to matters totally off topic. We expect that from trolls and others here to disrupt but the rest of us should avoid such conduct.
2003-08-15 18:40 | User Profile
*Originally posted by triskelion@Aug 15 2003, 11:35 * ** When I see comments like hers and I note that the legalization of "child-love" is a major public policy agenda item for her depraved kind my natural instinct to return to the moderate suppression/stigmatization of sexual sociopaths seems hopeless weak and suicidally dangerous for society. While I believe that my ancestors were excessively brutal for their practice of drowning adulterers/adulteresses and others that engaged in sexual conduct that undermined society listening to Raina makes me waiver in that regard. **
Well said.
I also view Raina and her kindred as the greatest threat to relatively moderate views such as the one I have laid out above.
Nevertheless, I hope cool heads will prevail, and there will be no need for excessively harsh measures.
2003-08-16 22:44 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 15 2003, 10:56 * ** Remember, "pedophile" doesn't mean "violent child rapist." It means someone who finds young people to be sexually appealing. **
If you think I give a rat's ass what Paglia or her perverted fellow travelers think about anything, then you are sorely mistaken.
If you kill everybody with these desires, that's (1) alot of dead people, possibly most everyone, & (2) tyrannical in the extreme.
My heart bleeds. You label it tyrannical, I call it sanctification. You're sick.
2003-08-17 07:25 | User Profile
Just when this was going somewhere, we get sidetracked into one of the cul-de-sacs that for some crazy reason drive the political debate in America. Let's leave the homos in their own little world, and get back to the matter in hand.
The original thought was, I thought, how is it the the Europeans can "do it" but Americans can't. By it, I understand mean: grow a credible nationalist political political presence not build motor cars ( they can do the latter in Korea and even India these days).
The answer appears to be very simple: the US is just too darned big and too diverse to support nationalist organizations on the European model. I am reminded of Joel Garreau's early 1980's book 'The Nine Nations of North America'. Garreau identified The Rust Belt, Ecotopia, Dixie, The Islands, the Breadbasket, The Empty Quarter, Mexamerica, and several other domains as the natural social and political structure rather than the monolithic state that we call the USA.
Each region is so different economically, socially, and ethnically from the others that the probability of any nationalist movement with a common focus and leadership successfully taking root in say California and Michigan has to be slim to say the least. They are different worlds.
In Europe it is so much simpler. For the most part, Danes still predominate in Denmark, Flemings in Flanders, and Englishmen in England. The bounds are smaller, the variables are fewer, the need for trimming the message to accommodate conflicting ethnic sensibilities is that much less. In America even the North vs South 'debate' reverberates today not to mention all the other undercurrents deriving from hyphenated-Americanism so it is extremely difficult to contemplate how any meaningful nationalist policial activity could arise beyond the regional level. I would not include the NA in the meaningful category.
To Robert Hughes' 'Tyranny of Distance' I fear we have to also factor in the reality of the melting-pot in any assessment of the likely emergence of a (white) nationalist movement in America. I hope this is wrong but remain to be convinced.
2003-08-17 09:07 | User Profile
America may in fact be too large to integrate, but it's also true that America has precious little cultural heritage to aid in that undertaking. While the nations of Europe have millennia of history worth preserving, America has, what, 2 centuries? 4 if you count when we were still Brits? And how much of that do most people remember?
We also have several deep-rooted propaganda items going around that even educated conservatives believe: that the founding fathers were corrupt men, that we "stole" the land from the Injuns, that we are a nation of immigrants of all sorts (rather than a nation of white immigrants), that America was built on slavery, that we became a world superpower through our own genius (rather than the decimation of Europe), etc.
Americans are more intensely dumbed-down than our European counterparts. It's hard to get even a nominally "open-minded" American to believe anything that's not reported by the official news. Alternative news sources are always regarded as either a rare incident being blown out of proportion, a "wacky conspiracy theory", or outright fabricated by the [liberal or conservative] extremists to promote some agenda.
American minds are simply not well-equipped to break out of the two-party mold, whereas Euros are more used to multi-party systems. The attitude seems to be that it's better to try and elect a better Republican--or at least a Republican instead of a Democrat--than to waste your time supporting and vote voting for a third-party candidate.
I wish that we could take il ragno's advice and politely persuade people towards our cause, but America is really not ready for it. Insulting Americans won't help either, of course. I don't think there's any possibility of a viable American nationalist party short of either 1) retaking one of the two major political parties or 2) a serious, systematic, total collapse of the current system.
2003-08-17 17:42 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Dan Dare@Aug 17 2003, 01:25 * ** The original thought was, I thought, how is it the the Europeans can "do it" but Americans can't. **
Can we? No one in Europe has succeeded so far with even stopping mass immigration, let alone send all undesirables back, and there are already some laws in place against unreservedly talking about topics such as Zionism. :angry:
I do not want to rain on anybodyôs parade, but Europe differs from America only insofar as we are 20 years behind, that is, the rot is only about as advanced as it was, on the other side of the Atlantic, in the 80s.
As our education system currently goes down the river, thanks to analphabetic half-civilized from Albania, Turkey and the 3rd world, and thanks to the Plutocracy saving as much as possible on (originally good) public education, the currently growing-up generation in Europe will resemble your average present-day Americans very closely.
Sorry if I seem more pessimistic than anybody else. I hope someone will find an argument to prove me wrong.
2003-08-17 22:21 | User Profile
Trisk: In the end, systematic legal oppression doesn't hurt racialism here as it has almost entirely wiped out the costume fetish set and those that push violence openly of the public stage. As a result, we don't have wacky little cults that do little outside of stigmatize nationalism and help raise money for "professional anti-racists" by being a self parody of "racial hate". However, real change never has and never will come without repression and those that wish to bemoan repression and use it as an excuse for inaction are simply condemning their children to life a of third world misery. I wonder, if a lot of the inactivity of American racialism/nationalism isn't due to a sense of depressed hopelessness. It certainly keeps me from doing anything too active/open. I work quietly, slowly, and carefully trying to awaken people I care about (and occasionally, people I barely know but am likely not in jeopardy from -- i.e., they don't know my name!) I HOPE that somehow, some way, things could change -- that suddenly somehow (where's the hand of god when you need it?) the so-called representatives will get a conscience and start acting on MY race's behalf! But I recognize that is NOT going to happen; and there's no point in voting or trying to influence votes -- the jews pick who gets to play, and so I'm not even going to attend the game!
I even waffle about trying to awaken my own sisters -- they have young sons, and those young sons will inherit the mess 'we' cannot fix (and, well, sh|t my older sister has contributed to it by reproducing with her husband, a black man :( :angry: ). I WANT to force my younger sister. and her husband, with their blond son, to WAKE UP and start preparing themselves, and him, for the future -- but to what end? THEY live in L.A. -- THEY are going to sink under a brown tide of sewage -- ands they can't / won't / don't even see it coming! Should I NOT just leave them alone to live their little lives until it all blows up? Will awakening them CHANGE the coming destruction? Will it do anything but make them as miserable as I am about the coming destruction, without even giving them a hope of escape? (And the added burden of them having brought their young son into a hopeless situation?)
Am I doing them any favours?
I like what Triskelion wrote about the need for a goal -- a place or thing to go TOWARD rather than merely a place or thing to go away from... But even here on OD where we agree strongly on some topics, we also disagree strongly on others. Tex and I would (figuratively) man the barricades to stop illegal and maybe even legal immigration -- but he wants a Christian nation, and I'm not so sure about that. Franco and I are 100% sure the jews must GO (or be MADE TO GO -- don't care which!), but, well heck, I dunno what he wants that I don't -- maybe free sandwiches (or is that freedom to BE a sandwich?! :rolleyes: )
Maybe we need a thread to discuss what our version of our (non-religious) heaven is. (By that I mean, how would we describe "heaven on earth," pending the arrival (or non-arrival) in the actual religious heaven.) How would our putative nation be formed and what would be its rules? (While recognizing, as NeoNietzsche would say -- the FORM of govt is mere trappings.)
2003-08-17 23:25 | User Profile
Originally posted by Avalanche@Aug 17 2003, 15:21 * I like what Triskelion wrote about the need for a goal -- a place or thing to go TOWARD rather than merely a place or thing to go away from...*
Yes, exactly - we must have a vision we can present to people. This is essential in politics. It isn't enough to simply point out problems and tell people how everything is going to hell.
For example: "Imagine a city where all the inhabitants are White people, where everybody speaks the same language and shares the same culture and values. The city is safe, clean and prosperous. Law and order prevail and all the children receive an excellent education. People are proud, free and happy. And it's there waiting for us. We just need to build it." Somewhat corny but you get the idea. The more positive and optimistic your vision is the better it will be received.
**Maybe we need a thread to discuss what our version of our (non-religious) heaven is. (By that I mean, how would we describe "heaven on earth," pending the arrival (or non-arrival) in the actual religious heaven.) How would our putative nation be formed and what would be its rules? (While recognizing, as NeoNietzsche would say -- the FORM of govt is mere trappings.) **
2003-08-18 05:46 | User Profile
I am rather disappointed that not a single poser (save Tsun) has made a comment about taking inspiration from the idea of racialists creating their own institutions to support our struggle. Instead, I see lots of comments about why Americans can't do anything productive and PL's comment about how Europeans haven't gone anywhere either. When I look at the efforts of www.perimetro.com and numerous other "counter power" projects I wonder why American racialists can't do the same as their European counterparts or even your domestic radical left.
The comments that will follow are not intended to insult or outrage but simply be honest no matter how discomforting candor may be.
Starting with PL's comments it should be stated that he is simply wrong. As numerous European nations have in fact drastically reduced alien immigration and that in Danmark, Holland and Belgium small scale expulsions have started. While some European nation are facing as dim demographic projections as the USA most are not and all have larger, better organized populist and nationalist movements.
On a more basic level the fact that the no European nation has ended immigration or expelled the alien populations says nothing about the fact that populist and nationalist parties are viable (and often part of coalition governments) while in America they have zero public impact and never had save the Klan prior to the ââ¬Ë30s, Thurman's presidential campaign of ââ¬Ë48 and Wallace's run in ââ¬Ë68.
I personally have held minor elective offices here and in the motherland and made very credible bids for parliament an helped several others do the same thing so it's hardly a herculean task. Most European nations have electorally viable parties on at least the local level and several that I have mentioned before regularly win parliament seats and gain double digit shares of the vote. Off hand I can think of several open National Socialists that hold views largely similar to mine that hold local elective office in several different nations on the continent so again the matter of ideology and how you present your views begs to be addressed. Yet, I see almost no indication that the desire exists to do so in the states.
Personally, I think that things look quite good for National Revolution in Hungary and a few other places in the East within the next 10 years so those of you that are serious about improving your lot should be looking into the NR scenes out East. Note also that repressive laws (often implemented by American occupational regimes) have not diminished effective resistance and some will argue that it has helped. Almost all European nations have well organized and effective racialist groups engaged in real public activism everyday while in the states the occasional leaflet run or small march (neither of which achieve anything thing) seem to be the extent of public activism. So while it's true that almost all of Europa is far from National Revolution and may be twenty years behind the states in terms of demographic decline the truth is also that nearly all European nations are drastically ahead of the states in terms of ideology, activism, organization and strategy. I know that many here don't want to hear such thoughts but that's the on the ground physical reality.
I note that my friend DD pointed out the vast and rich tapestry of American regionalism, which is something I always liked about the states, as being an inhibitor to the promotion of a NR agenda. I disagree in part because the much more diverse racial aliens within the states have no problem jointly working to destroy your nation so again we come back to the issue of articulating what racialists want and why rather then simply saying what they are against and why. It should be pointed out again the utter irrelevancy of racialism in the states does not have anything to do with it's size (Russia is huge and diverse yet they have an excellent racial movement in some respects) as one can see by the fact that racialism is a force nowhere in the states save the internet. Again we come back to the matter of ideology and my believe that a decentralized (www.devolve.org has some useful ideas on community empowerment) nationalism emphasizing communal values, Traditionalism and economic self determination and economic populism is the way forward. Such an ideology is easily adoptable to widely varied localities, has a primal appeal to genuine conservatives, racialists and what I call "the ethical left". In the interview above I spent a fair amount of time and gave a few reverences to some very good sites that deal with alternatives to the economic oppression and cultural destruction of capitalism and the economic oppression and cultural destruction of state centered socialism. Again, we come to the need of having an ideological alternative that meets needs of our lansmen needs and demonstrating by example the positive, life affirming reality of racialism as an alternative to the anti-human order that currently controls our nations.
Addressing the "why can't Americans do this question" needs to dealt with. Someone pointed out that Americans are grossly miseducated but racialists that are serious have no excuse to be so. Read up on the genuine alternative I have detailed and how to debate then tailor your message to the audience you wish to reach. Bemoaning our fate with Ares style defeatism is moronic and an insult to the countless generations that sacrificed for you. We all owe our ancestors and descendants far more then we have provided and at very least lets admit that sitting back and pretending that what you've done has or will work when reality bellows other wise ceased to be an option before I was born and we must realize as much or stop kidding ourselves that we really do care about our people.
Be ready for a long term commitment to community activism whose methods I detailed at Tsun's page. Build "counter power" businesses that support those that support National Restoration. Every alien population in the states has institutions that support their communities and so should we. Turn off the TV, stop waiting for the Turner Diaries to take place or an immortal to return from Ultima Thule or Avalon to save your children's future (or you in your declining years) and get serious about practical activism now.
2003-08-18 06:23 | User Profile
The problem (white apathy in America) will take care of itself once a sufficient catalyst comes to complete fruition (white disposession). This is in some ways a depressing prospect...but it is the reality of the situation. I do not believe that the majority of American whites will continue to remain idle when the circumstances of their everyday existence become dire.
One should make note of the British National Party...the BNP has slowly but surely gained power and respectability over the past decade, and given Britain's unabashed hostility to parties that are founded upon "extremist" platforms, I find this to be quite instructive and remarkable.
Think positive.
2003-08-18 13:34 | User Profile
> ** Me: Will awakening them CHANGE the coming destruction? Will it do anything but make them as miserable as I am about the coming destruction, without even giving them a hope of escape? (And the added burden of them having brought their young son into a hopeless situation?)
WM: Don't infantalize people, until you have a very sure guage of their mental capacity (i.e. some shoud be infantilized). The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. Isn't that in the Bible somewhere? The act of sharing the truth is an act of honoring others as moral agents, which is why I'm so forthright about the actual contents of the O.T. on this forum. Also, as for the child, and speaking as a former child, they want the truth, too. Go back to your own childhood and consider: would you have wanted to know? Then apply the Golden Rule.**
Very very good point! I have trouble balancing my own (female) desire for harmony and 'friendliness' among family members and the strong desire I have to awaken them! NeoNietzsche tends to want me to kept quiet, because he is uncomfortable with the acrimony and unhappiness that I have caused (to noultimate end?) by bringing up uncomfortable topics with family members. I HAVE noticed, with my younger sister and her husband, that despite making them uncomfortable, and having them tell me/us to shut up and leave it alone -- my pushing HAS created some inroads. My sister, a staunch egalitarianist, who INSISTS that every human be treated an an individual and not as part of a group, is sometimes beginning to imply some whispers of 'groupness' in her discussions. I find, by stressing the dangers to her SON, I can get her to think through her insistance in "fairness" to all.
My older sister, however, a pretty fervent Anglican, and seemingly wholly committed to racism-as-ultimate-evil (she IS married to a black man, and HAS participated unwillingly in the receipt of unkindness and 'maltreatment' for it) had said she would take a bullet for her pacifist beliefs, and worse still, would allow her (now-16-yr-old) SON to take a bullet for their beliefs! So, trying to 'reach' her by pointing out his jeopardy to the draft -- which is coming -- to fight for purposes NOT hers (nor ours) but for a alien oligarchy MIGHT work -- but she usually has an emotional short-circuit and drops the thinking. (Her high-functioning but still black husband seemingly can't even get that far -- he freaks, gets hysterically emotional (ANY discusion of these sorts of things is PROOF I'm a horrid racist nazi {sigh}) and he leaves the room flailing and shouting. Her loyalty is to him, so I waver on trying to continue to get her to think.
I will work on starting that thread -- I'll have to marshal ( :P or is that "martial" tee hee hee!) my thoughts on 'heaven on earth.' And I'll continue my 'whispering' campaign, feeling somewhat better about what I perceive as my inactivity.)
2003-08-18 15:37 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 18 2003, 02:31 * *Tex likes to pretend that Dispensationalists aren't 'True Christians', **
For the record, I don't think I've ever stated that dispensationalists are not 'true' Christians. I believe dispensationalists as a whole are well-within Christian orthodoxy, but the more extreme elements in that eschatological group are on the cusp of heresy. A litmus test of sorts would be the question, "Do jews need Christ in order to be saved?"
but they're the very people he needs to create a "Christian America".
Christian America can mean many different things. On the whole though, Southern fundamentalist dispensationalist sorts are those I consider 'my people,' so I will hardly abandon them for fellowship with unknowns, white Christian or otherwise. I take hope and comfort in their answer to my litmus test question above. It's a start, after all.
2003-08-18 16:31 | User Profile
Intellectual vainity has become very much in vogue on the this forum. You folks ought to take Dan Dare's advice and return to basics.
-Z-
2003-08-18 19:33 | User Profile
Let's talk about basics.
1) What do you (generic) want in societal terms and why? In other words, lets get serious about ideology rather then mere critique.
2) What do you (generic) have to offer your lansmen in terms of solution to the problems facing them and their children? In other words what public policies flow from your ideology?
3) Why has American racialism and paleo-conservatism been dramatic failures for decades?
4) Is it reasonable to expect that a continuation of the same approaches used for the last two generations will produce worth while results before too few of your kind are left to make a difference?
5) What needs to change to make racialism a viable alternative to some significant portion of Occidental Americans?
6) What have you (generic) done to advance the struggle? What needs to happen to make your efforts more effective?
7) How do we (generic) insulate ourselves from economic blackmail by the establishment?
8) How have racial aliens and our ideological enemies managed support their own communities outside of siphoning off tax monies?
9) What are we (generic) doing to create our own institutions?
10) What can we (generic) do to fund projects that advance our struggle?
2003-08-18 19:38 | User Profile
Originally posted by triskelion@Aug 18 2003, 14:33 * *Let's talk about basics. **
Trisk's basics questions started on its own thread here: [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=10386]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...showtopic=10386[/url]
2003-08-18 22:46 | User Profile
WM,
Another Velvet Revolution is possible, but remember that the one that did happen occured after several decades of tyranny and millions of victims of terror.
2003-08-19 00:22 | User Profile
Is it good or bad?