← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Centinel
Thread ID: 8764 | Posts: 6 | Started: 2003-08-04
2003-08-04 21:21 | User Profile
From The Associated Press, available online at: [url=http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstories/story/0,4386,203065,00.html]http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/topstorie...,203065,00.html[/url]
**It's unstoppable: High tech jobs ditching US
The need to stay competitive will benefit countries such as India, China and even Singapore, where labour costs are lower**
August 4, 2003
EVEN though the United States' ailing technology sector looks poised to recover, the bad news for job-seekers in the world's largest economy is that they won't benefit.
Faced with intense competition and the need to cut costs, one in 10 technology jobs is likely to move overseas within the next 18 months, says research firm Gartner.
The beneficiaries will be countries such as India, China, Vietnam and Singapore, which are seen as being able to deliver cheaper and faster software development, manufacturing and tech support.
The trend appears to be an unstoppable force, and that not just infuriates jobless workers but also worries some economists who say it may ultimately hinder the US economic recovery.
'This is part of why the economy is still sluggish,' said director Mac Clouse of the Reiman School of Finance at the University of Denver. 'It's not the traditional economic model any more,' he said.
'Businesses may be spending, but they're not spending their dollars here - it's not going to result in new jobs and increased economic activity.'
However, US business executives say they can't compete, let alone keep their companies alive, if they hire US IT workers for US$40,000 (S$70,000) to US$80,000 a year while their competitors hire the same talent in India for US$8,500 to US$9,800.
So, when Denver-based software company Quark was deciding where to build a new facility that will employ 1,000 software and technology workers, it chose Chandigarh, India.
Late last month, news leaked that IBM would move 1,000 jobs overseas.
A couple of weeks earlier, Microsoft said it would hire 5,000 more people, up to 2,000 of them outside the US. At about the same time, Oracle said it will almost double workers in its Indian unit to 6,000.
'There's a lot of interest,' said the company's president Robert Welch. 'American software teams are awesome for innovation, but in terms of being able to crank things out in a productive manner, they're not the best on the planet.'
Three years ago, Louisville-based Storage Technology moved its manufacturing operations to Puerto Rico. Agilent Technologies also shipped hundreds of its Colorado Springs jobs to India and China. Also in the Springs, broadband device maker Actiontec sent several hundred jobs to India, and computer storage firm Quantum sent 865 jobs to Malaysia.
Denver tech consulting firm Ciber revealed a few weeks ago it will create new software and IT-related jobs in India.
Chief executive Mac Slingerlend of Ciber argues that by using Indian workers, his firm ultimately saves US jobs.
For instance, Ciber lost work from a major client, American Express, when the financial firm sent half of its software development work to India.
Because Ciber didn't do work in India at the time, the company lost the business and was forced to cut 100 jobs in its Phoenix office, Mr Slingerlend said. 'I've cost American jobs by not doing work on India.'
That doesn't provide much consolation to the thousands looking for work, some of whom say they were replaced by foreign workers.
Yet jobs have been leaving the US for years in a number of other industries. The automotive industry began hiring offshore in the 1960s as clothing, shoe and widget manufacturers did a decade later. In 1970, manufacturing jobs made up 15 per cent of the Colorado workforce. By 2000, they made up just 9.3 per cent.
And more recently, customer call centres started moving overseas.
However, critics say that while manufacturing jobs in the 1970s were replaced with new and higher-paying jobs in technology, the future for today's jobless tech workers is not clear.
Still, Colorado's secretary of technology John Hansen said the solution is not regulation. That, he said, will strangle businesses' global competitiveness.
Instead, US companies and citizens must innovate and come up with technologies that create new companies and ultimately new jobs. -- AP
2003-08-05 01:01 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Centinel@Aug 4 2003, 13:21 * **
'There's a lot of interest,' said the company's president Robert Welch. 'American software teams are awesome for innovation, but in terms of being able to crank things out in a productive manner, they're not the best on the planet.'
**
Yeah, right. What he (and the others) is saying is: "Once Whitey has invented/created/innovated, we turn it over to the mud grunt workers to maximize profits and executive salaries."
Hehehehe. The renowned lack of innovation from "overseas" (China, India, anywhere in Asia, etc.) will backfire - as it has in some ways already. ;)
2003-08-05 01:23 | User Profile
**A couple of weeks earlier, Microsoft said it would hire 5,000 more people, up to 2,000 of them outside the US. At about the same time, Oracle said it will almost double workers in its Indian unit to 6,000.
'There's a lot of interest,' said the company's president Robert Welch. 'American software teams are awesome for innovation, but in terms of being able to crank things out in a productive manner, they're not the best on the planet.'**
Ironically, that guy has the same name as the founder of the John Birch Society, which advocates protecting US jobs.
2003-08-05 05:14 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Aug 4 2003, 21:21 * *That doesn't provide much consolation to the thousands looking for work, some of whom say they were replaced by foreign workers.
**
Immigration reform critics have pointed out that this outsourcing is getting much more press coverage than H1-B. That is because it doesn't involve the issue of immigration, which of course the media avoids like the plague. You really have to dig for references like this one.
2003-08-07 00:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by Roy Batty+Aug 4 2003, 19:01 -->
QUOTE* (Roy Batty @ Aug 4 2003, 19:01 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Centinel@Aug 4 2003, 13:21 * ** 'There's a lot of interest,' said the company's president Robert Welch. 'American software teams are awesome for innovation, but in terms of being able to crank things out in a productive manner, they're not the best on the planet.'
**
Yeah, right. What he (and the others) is saying is: "Once Whitey has invented/created/innovated, we turn it over to the mud grunt workers to maximize profits and executive salaries."
Hehehehe. The renowned lack of innovation from "overseas" (China, India, anywhere in Asia, etc.) will backfire - as it has in some ways already. ;) **
Hopefully you are one of these much ballyhooed (but extremely rare) creative types.
If so, your job is safe. Creative people will have jobs in times of feast or famine.
But if not, you had better figure out how to be creative... :)
I think it is this that worries you, Roy Batty. The Chinese and Indians are not stupid. They are not Mexicans and blacks. They have advanced degrees and know what hard work is. Capitalism is unforgiving, and the Chinese and Indians would be unemployed if they did not produce.
Perhaps this will be another Japan-like bubble. Will you bet your career on it, Roy Batty?
PS - Rban, we agree on much. Hindus can rule this country from within. They will form alliances with Jews. Have you seen this?
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A13526-2003Jul18¬Found=true]http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...8¬Found=true[/url]
We Chinese will build our own country. Chinese hardware engineers, Indian softwar engineers. Good combination in Silicon Valley.
Roy Batty
2003-08-07 02:00 | User Profile
rban/sun tzu
** Hopefully you are one of these much ballyhooed (but extremely rare) creative types. **
I can understand your confusion and unstated jealousy, as creativity is so rare among non-whites.
Heeheheee. Consdering the true record of the Chinese and Indians when it comes to inventiveness and creativity, it's innovation that slows as their hands on time increases. That's an inarguable fact, rban. Yes, rban, even signing up under two names can't hide the smell of gefilte fish or the stink emanating from the brown bag with the leftovers of the curry you scooped up for lunch. When Asians have to stop stealing ideas, patents, etc., send up a flare, because we'll all be stunned.
Yes, I'm creative. And work in a creative area of technology, which is why the number of Asians in the field is so low as compared to other areas of IT, etc. Oh, they get in, but their contributions just don't hang, so most eventually go back to where it's safe for hacks to ply their trade. Easier to be a systems manager, hack programmer, or hanger on in a team of engineers than actually sit down and invent, innovate, create. Take a look at what ol' Mr. Yew down in Singapore says about Asian "creativity" - it ain't there. It's in the genes. In the actual structure of the brain. Oh, Asians can be highly derivative, and work endlessly on something, once someone else gives them an idea, a running start. But you already know that.
Madrussian and I will continue to chuckle at your big "... $60k a year," remark about SV. :D Have a bagel and relax.