← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Hilaire Belloc
Thread ID: 8740 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-08-04
2003-08-04 00:16 | User Profile
** [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030803/ap_on_re_us/episcopalians_gay_bishop_12]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...s_gay_bishop_12[/url]
Gay Bishop-Elect Wins 1st of 2 Last Votes
By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer
MINNEAPOLIS - A New Hampshire clergyman moved a step closer Sunday to becoming the first openly gay elected bishop in the Episcopal Church, winning one of two final votes required to be confirmed.
The House of Deputies, a legislative body composed of clergy and lay people, voted to approve the Rev. V. Gene Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire. He faces a final vote Monday in the House of Bishops.
The House of Deputies voted by delegation, with 128 delegations voting yes and 63 voting no. The votes of 25 delegations were not counted because their members were divided.
The American Anglican Council, which represents conservative bishops and parishes, said it was "deeply grieved" by the results.
"It is a tragic decision that leads the Episcopal Church to the brink of shattering the Anglican Communion," the council said in a statement. Episcopalians form the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member communion.
Robinson, a 56-year-old divorced father of two, has lived with his partner, Mark Andrew, for 13 years. If he is confirmed at this week's Episcopal General Convention, it will have an impact far beyond his diocese.
Bishops who believe gay sex is a sin contend that allowing him to serve is a tacit endorsement of ordaining homosexuals. These conservatives said it would force them to consider leaving the church, weakening the denomination and sparking a bitter fight over parish property and funds.
Like-minded bishops in the Anglican Communion have said they, too, would consider severing ties with the American church over Robinson.
But liberals said the threat has been exaggerated, and note that many conservatives had pledged to break ties before over issues such as ordaining women but did not follow through.
Robinson was elected by his diocese in June, but the church requires that a majority of convention delegates ratify his election. It is rare for the General Convention to reject a diocese's choice of bishop.
The vote by the House of Deputies, representing dioceses nationwide, came after about an hour of emotional but polite debate.
Bonnie Anderson, a parishioner from the Diocese of Michigan, said deputies should not be swayed by warnings about a potential split in the church.
"You may be afraid ââ¬â afraid of schism and afraid it will hurt your church budget. Don't be afraid," she said. "The power behind you and within you is far greater than the resistance before you."
George Marshall, a parishioner from the Diocese of Albany, N.Y., said confirming Robinson would send a damaging message that Episcopalians are guided by shifting cultural attitudes, not by Scripture.
"It will prove once again that our church doesn't have the confidence to proclaim the Gospel," Marshall said. "Do not do this thing."
A chaplain led the deputies in prayer before their vote. The president of the legislative body had asked them to remain quiet when the results were announced and they complied.
Robinson has served as assistant to the retiring New Hampshire bishop. He has repeatedly rejected calls from opponents to withdraw his candidacy to prevent a breakup of the church, as a gay clergyman in England did recently.
A final vote in favor of Robinson could build momentum for approving blessing ceremonies for same-sex couples, Episcopalians on both sides of the issue say. A decision on the proposed ceremony is expected later in the meeting, which runs through Friday.
On the Net:
Episcopal Church: [url=http://www.episcopalchurch.org]http://www.episcopalchurch.org[/url] **
I don't know, I lost all respect for the Episcopal Church when they made Brittney Spears a saint simply [url=http://www.dotmusic.com/news/December2000/news16894.asp]because she was a virgin[/url]. But I guess they now have to rebuke that because Spears is no longer a virgin(who would want to sleep with her is beyond me). Not only that, the head of Episcopal church is a full member to neo-Pagan druid societies and openly takes part in their rituals. Now with this gay issue, I believe the staunch traditionalists need to reassert themselves and get their church back in order!
2003-08-06 17:15 | User Profile
Lets go see Father Faggot, Brother Queer..... :rolleyes:
Yep, Ol' Father Faggot won. If there are ANY Christians in that denomination, they should leave that form of faith quickly.
We know that birds of a feather flock together and chicken hawks go where the chickens are. The children in those churches will be preyed upon. :angry:
2003-08-06 20:29 | User Profile
The homo won the final vote, in spite of the undisputed facts that the homo founded a website that linked to homo porn and that the homo made unwanted touches on a fellow church member. The homo also won the final vote in spite of divorcing his wife to cohabitate with someone else. The homo also totally lies about what the bible teaches on homosexuality. Oh, and the homo is a homo.
Anyone who would vote for a homo obviously wouldn't care about sexual harassment, pornography, divorce, adultery, and cohabitation, or the Bible. And, I'm sure there's a long list of other proud sins by this homo.
The man who charged sexual harassment was talked into toning down his allegation. The supposedly monogamous homo wasn't herreassing him at all. It was just a misunderstanding is the current understanding. But, what really happened was that the homo was fishing for additional willing partners.
The homo claims to no longer control the pro-homo webpage with homo porn links so it's not his fault. We have to trust him that it's not his fault, but it certainly is his fault concerning the type of people he handed his website to.
The saddest thing of all is that instead of being dragged into support of sodomy, this "church" is leading the way. According to an unscientific CNN pole, when I looked, nearly two thirds of Americans think the church did the wrong thing in electing the homo. Yet, those in this denomination, those who center their lives around the church and the Christian religion much more so than most lay people do, overwhelmingly voted for the homo.
2003-08-06 20:49 | User Profile
Well already many conservatives in the Espiscopalian community world-wide are cutting their ties with the American church over this. As you can read about it here [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Religion]http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl...ld&cat=Religion[/url]
There's already the possibility of the head of the Anglican church declaring the American church an apostate organization. I sure hope they do, they need to make it clear that this not responsible behavior for the leaders of a religious community!!
** [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=574&e=13&u=/nm/20030806/wl_nm/religion_anglicans_dc_1]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._anglicans_dc_1[/url]
Anglican Church Faces Split Over Gay U.S. Bishop By Jeremy Lovell
LONDON (Reuters) - The Anglican Church faced civil war on Wednesday, pitting conservatives against liberals and potentially ripping the global congregation apart after its affiliate U.S. Episcopal Church appointed an openly gay bishop.
Evangelicals roared in outrage and threatened to split after U.S. Episcopalian bishops voted to appoint Canon Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire.
But liberals welcomed the move and called for calm, leaving Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams with one of the biggest crises of his eight-month tenure as the head of the world's estimated 70 million Anglicans. "Difficult days lie ahead for the Anglican Church. It is my hope that the church in America and the rest of the Anglican Communion will have the opportunity to consider this development before significant and irrevocable decisions are made in response," Williams said in a statement issued in London.
But the Anglican church in Kenya was up in arms, following the lead already given by Nigeria recently over the thwarted move to appoint celibate gay priest Jeffrey John as bishop of Reading in England. After an outcry, John declined the post.
"We are totally opposed to ordination of gay persons to ministry and we are totally opposed to that move in the United States," the Very Reverend Peter Karanja, the Provost of Nairobi's All Saints Cathedral, told Reuters.
However, observers noted a certain lack of consistency in the Nigerian position.
Archbishop of Nigeria Peter Akinola threatened to withdraw his flock of 17 million from the Anglican Communion if John was made a bishop. But there was no such threat in 1993 when then Archbishop of Cape Town Desmond Tutu appointed a gay bishop.
CATASTROPHE OR OPPORTUNITY
On Wednesday Archbishop of Sydney Peter Jensen described the Robinson vote as "catastrophic," while David Phillips of the Church Society in England called on the Anglican movement worldwide to shun the U.S. Episcopal Church.
"We consider the Episcopal Church of the United States has put itself outside the fellowship of faithful Christians. They have created a schism. They have shown they are pursuing a religion that is not Christianity," he told Reuters.
"We should no longer have any meaningful fellowship with these people," he added, urging Williams to condemn the vote.
But Richard Kirker of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement in London welcomed the vote, praising the courage of the Episcopal Church which he said had led the way on issues such as the ordination of women and on condemning racial segregation.
"It is a ground-breaking church. But we don't expect everybody to follow suit immediately. Different parts of the Anglican Communion tend to travel at different speeds," he said.
"The decision gives Rowan Williams an opportunity to welcome the decision of an influential part of the Anglican Communion."
With the evangelicals urging a split and the liberals an open-arms approach, Williams, who even before his appointment had courted controversy with his support for gay clergy, single sex marriages and the ordination of women, faced a dilemma.
"I really don't know what he can do. He is not the pope. He has no powers. The best thing he can do is roll with it and try to keep a lid on tempers. If he fails it could have very serious consequences," said religion commentator Clifford Longley.
The Church Society's Phillips said the softly-spoken, grey-bearded Williams had brought the crisis on himself because of his openly expressed liberal views.
"We always said he should never have taken the job, because of the views he has expressed on same sex marriages and gay clergy. This hasn't changed our view," he said.
(Additional reporting by Reuters in Nairobi, Lagos) **
2003-08-07 03:22 | User Profile
It is like that other Judeo-Christian said during the interview on Fox last night 8/5/2003, "It's Progressive."
I do not pity the poor bastard that uses Jesus Christ as an excuse to spread the message of tolerance for racemixing, homosexuality, pedophilism, to venture that deviant lifestyle upon innocent Christian children.
It is terrible how white, Christian children are brought up in "churches" that embrace filth all in the name of Jesus Christ.
To induce children into the filth in the name of Jesus, is judiased Christianity at it contemporary best.
I do not pity those that use Jesus Christ as an excuse to share fellowship with filth in an attempted display of "Love and Salvation".
The Separation of the Tares from the Wheat is drawing closer.
2003-10-15 13:21 | User Profile
I noticed a Sky news story on this in the canteen during lunch time. The heads of the various international Anglican churches are meeting right now to decide on a course of action. The Nigerians are leading the conservative charge (apparently there are 17 million Anglicans in Nigeria). Itââ¬â¢s a sad day when we have to look to Africa for the moral example.
2003-10-15 15:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I noticed a Sky news story on this in the canteen during lunch time. The heads of the various international Anglican churches are meeting right now to decide on a course of action. The Nigerians are leading the conservative charge (apparently there are 17 million Anglicans in Nigeria). It’s a sad day when we have to look to Africa for the moral example.[/QUOTE]
The Hip-Hop effect on whites :angry:
Not that I'm opposed to Africa's Christian leaders standing for traditional values, but we need White leaders to stand up for tradition. Sadly we only seem to find this in the Orthodox Church and the traditionalist fringe of the Catholic Church.
2003-10-15 21:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=perun1201]Not that I'm opposed to Africa's Christian leaders standing for traditional values, but we need White leaders to stand up for tradition. Sadly we only seem to find this in the Orthodox Church and the traditionalist fringe of the Catholic Church.[/QUOTE]
Conservative whites have fled such denominations as the Episcopal and the Presbyterian. They've gone such places as to the Baptists or to conservative upstart denominations.
They left when such things as the ordination of women started. This cleared the way for putting homosexuals in high places.
I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral... "Expel the wicked man from among you." 1 Corinthians 5:11,13
2003-10-16 00:53 | User Profile
Golfball wrote:
We know that birds of a feather flock together and chicken hawks go where the chickens are. The children in those churches will be preyed upon.
Gee, Golf, that sounds kinda intolerant. My history teacher, Mark Cohen-Silvergoldrosen, said that homosexuals are just like us. Are you callin' Mr. Cohen-Silvergoldrosen a liar?? Why would a person of the Hebrew faith say that if'n it wasn't true?? Are you callin' Jewish people liars? Is that what you are doing?
This board has become so intolerant....
:)
2003-10-16 01:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]
This board has become so intolerant....
:)[/QUOTE]
Gee Franco, you speak as if thats a bad thing! :lol: ** "Tolerance is only a virtue to those who believe in nothing." --GK Chesterton **
2003-10-16 15:19 | User Profile
.....Damnable sissy-poopies...
2003-10-17 12:03 | User Profile
The verdict is in and the Anglican Communion expresses ââ¬Ådeep regretââ¬Â over the appointment of a fruit as bishop. It looks like theyââ¬â¢re heading for a schism. [URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3196004.stm]Informative BBC article here[/URL].
2003-10-17 14:04 | User Profile
[IMG]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/europe/10/17/anglican.meeting/story.together.ap.jpg[/IMG]
African primates (pictured above) demonstrate that they are more evolved than American homosexuals.
The question: Will the relatively decent Anglicans cave to the apostates as they have done every time in the past? Or, is this more than they can stand?
2003-10-17 15:56 | User Profile
The part I donââ¬â¢t understand is that the objections were raised because an open homosexual was to be ordained a bishop and yet Anglicans tolerate openly gay vicars. If it is a matter of genuine principle what difference should rank make? Perhaps there is some attribute of Anglican organisation which makes rank an issue here?