← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Centinel
Thread ID: 8714 | Posts: 42 | Started: 2003-08-03
2003-08-03 07:33 | User Profile
From Talon News, available online at: [url=http://www.americafirstparty.org/inthenews/2003/talon-07-25-2003.htm]http://www.americafirstparty.org/inthenews...-07-25-2003.htm[/url]
America First Party Purges 'Extremists'
By Stephen Dewey Talon News July 28, 2003
WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- The America First Party (AFP) announced last week the postponement of its national convention to the fall, as the Party underwent significant internal disputes between conflicting factions.
The convention was scheduled for this past weekend, July 24-26, in Nashville, Tennessee, but failed to materialize after a portion of the convention's planning committee invited a speaker "who was not acceptable to the majority of the party membership."
That speaker was Colonel Bo Gritz, who reportedly grabbed a controlling stake in the AFP's leadership in the months prior to the conference change, leading to the resignation of the AFP's national chair, vice chair and treasurer.
Gritz is a former Green Beret and was decorated 62 times for his combat service in Vietnam, which he claims is a record. Gritz was also a neutral negotiator at Ruby Ridge between the FBI and Randy Weaver.
Other aspects of Gritz likely gave the AFP reason for concern, and could have led to his dismissal as a speaker. Gritz has close ties to militant anti-government and white supremacist groups, and led several commando-style attacks on Vietnam in the 1980s in search of alleged POWs trapped inside the country.
Gritz also maintains a Center for Action with a national newsletter that teaches advanced combat techniques he learned as a Green Beret.
"The America First Party takes seriously its commitment to the Constitution and the Judeo-Christian moral and ethical standards upon which our Nation was founded," the AFP release announcing the conference change reads. "All United States citizens who embrace that Constitution and adopt traditional American values are welcome with open arms into the party."
"The choice of an individual who supports extreme intolerance was not considered representative of our growing party whose goal is the preservation of the Constitutional Republic envisioned by the Founding Fathers," the release continues. "Anyone who supports theories that we hoped had died with Adolph Hitler is not welcome in the America First Party -- and certainly such persons should not -- and will not -- be invited to speak at our convention."
Control of the AFP appears to have switched back and forth as the different factions contested the decision. The AFP sent out a news release in early July confirming that Gritz would be the speaker and that he was "an approved speaker by the Convention Committee."
The same press release can be found on Gritz's own site, indicating that he or one of his affiliates composed it. The release was not in the traditional AFP format, which could indicate that control of the party's national infrastructure changed hands briefly.
Less than two weeks later, a second press release was sent out indicating that the convention had been rescheduled for a to-be-determined date in the fall and that the dispute was related to the speaking lineup for the convention. This release was in the traditional AFP format, and announced the resignation of a few insurgent members possibly connected to Gritz.
One day prior to the second release, the AFP sent out an unrelated release regarding defense contracts, indicating the leadership's attempt to put the Party back on course.
The AFP sees itself as the most viable conservative alternative to the Republican Party, and traces its roots to the Buchanan Brigade.
The Brigade supported Buchanan in his efforts to secure the GOP nomination in 1992 and 1996, both of which were unsuccessful. Buchanan ran on the Reform Party ticket in 2000, but only received 0.4% of the vote, and told the media that his foray into third party politics may have been a mistake.
Buchanan remains active in politics, however, and the AFP parallels his activism in the political realm. Buchanan's core followers defected from the Reform Party in 2002 to form the AFP, and remain essentially at the helm of the Party.
The AFP is uncompromisingly conservative on every issue, and decries the GOP's newfound neoconservative tendencies. The AFP opposed the Iraq war, but vigorously supported American troops. The AFP's platform is conservative on every issue, and tends toward the isolationist.
2003-08-03 11:07 | User Profile
It's a sad fact about American culture that a pervert can arouse more recognition writing or talking about his lifestyle than Bo Gritz can by teaching Americans self defense.
It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher, and Colonel Gritz is simply too much of an American to speak at its convention. The AFP is just another Buchanan Judas goat. Smart folks who put America first and back third-party movements wil take their support elsewhere. -Z-
2003-08-03 13:36 | User Profile
"The America First Party takes seriously its commitment to the Constitution and the [u]Judeo[/u]-Christian moral and ethical standards upon which our Nation was founded," That says it all, doesn't it?
Not quite. Among those running for leadership positions and their supporters, there were a number of vocal Jew/Israel supporters who vigorously opposed some equally vocal Jew/Israel critics. And there were also some highly emotional dispensationalists -- the furor surrounding Bo Gritz's invitation came mainly from these, who railed against his association with Christian Identity (racist, Nazi, etc.).
JW
2003-08-03 13:38 | User Profile
It's a sad fact about American culture that a pervert can arouse more recognition writing or talking about his lifestyle than Bo Gritz can by teaching Americans self defense.
Bo Gritz is undoubtedly a brave and patriotic man, and certainly a man you'd want to talk to if you had notions it comes to going into the mountains and making your last stand. Like the rest of the militia movement though, one wonders if they're seriously interested in political change or just in tough talk and bravado and playing Rambo like games in the forest. A look at these group's overall maturity, personally and psychologically, let alone ideologically, is not inspiring. The militia movement simultaneously does and says all sorts of things that alarm most Americans, and at the same time seems to not have much of a coherent ideology or undertake much serious political activity period. They aren't the first group I'd think a serious paleoconservative/nationalist movement would want to rally behind or partner with.
It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher, and Colonel Gritz is simply too much of an American to speak at its convention.
While Col. Gritz may not have been the perfect speaker from a nationalist let alone paleocon standpoint, the AFP certainly seems to have "come a long way baby" from the party whose flag someone like Jim Giles from Mississippi could run under. A look at the [url=http://americafirstparty.org/contacts/ms.shtml]America First Party of Mississippi website[/url] is rather indicative of the great shift that has overtaken the America First Party. This Mississippi affiliate site (I got the impression from their website that the Mississppi affiliate was influential nationally), which just recently as I recall had a large section of material on the Confederate/State flag controversy election in Mississippi and criticized among others RE. Don Wildman for his opposition the the Confederate flag, has removed all such materials. Obviously nothing so un-PC is allowed in the new AFP, or anyone so un-PC as those Mississippians who supported the retention of the existing state flag (even though they were a majority, bi-racial at that!).
The AFP is just another Buchanan Judas goat. Smart folks who put America first and back third-party movements wil take their support elsewhere. -Z-
With all due respect, I think it might be unfair to Buchanan to tar him with the residue from the AFP. Do we have any real evidence he's associated himself closely with this group? I don't see any, although they try to throw in a little Buchanan style rhetoric/sounding positions.
2003-08-03 14:43 | User Profile
Practical points, FWI, but, after re-reading the article, I saw the convention didn't materialize anyhow. So Bo Gritz as speaker is a moot point. Jean West indicates the Israel-first crowd is active in the party, which is all the more reason not to support it.
At the moment Ron Paul or Howard Phillips appeare to be the only viable persons capable of leading a third-party movement. When it's time to vote, if push comes to shove and nothing else emerges, I'd pick Ralph Nader over any Republicrat.
-Z-
2003-08-03 15:53 | User Profile
It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher
I think this attitude in the AFP can be attributed to chairman Dan Charles, a Jewish activist.
Makes you wonder why they grant interviews then to Willis Carto's American Free Press if they're so philosemitic. Check out the "In the News" section at americafirstparty.org
Also, if this spat torpedoed their convention two days before it was to start, then this party is on the fast-track to oblivion. There's probably some pissed off folks who bought plane tickets and made lodging reservations.
2003-08-03 16:03 | User Profile
At the moment Ron Paul or Howard Phillips appeare to be the only viable persons capable of leading a third-party movement.
You're not gonna like what I have to say, but it has to be said.
James Dobson, the evangelical "Focus on the Family" guy, has been threatening to stop supporting the GOP and defect to the Constitution Party and take a bunch of other evangelicals with him, so the Constitution Party could soon find itself swamped with Israel-Firsters as well.
Chuck Baldwin, the dispensationalist Baptist pastor, radio personality, and "patriot" advocate, is already one of the Constituion Party's more visible supporters.
Marlin Maddox's "Point of View" radio show seems to be an epicenter for these types of people.
Here's a Constitution Party press release from May alluding to this:
[url=http://www.cpow.org/press/cppr20030509.htm]http://www.cpow.org/press/cppr20030509.htm[/url]
CONSTITUTION PARTY TO CHRISTIAN RIGHT:
BOLT ANTI-FAMILY GOP NOW!
May 9, 2003 - LANCASTER, PA: The National Chairman of the Constitution Party added his voice to the growing chorus of conservative leaders who are denouncing the Republican Party for appeasing the radical homosexual lobby.
James N. Clymer, commended conservative leaders "with the courage to speak out on this issue" and invites them to follow through on their threat to bolt from the GOP. "They are all welcome in the Constitution Party where the principles we proclaim are the oneââ¬â¢s we live by," he said today.
In recent days Ken Connor, Gary Bauer, James Dobson and Phyllis Schlafly, among others, have protested the Republican leadershipââ¬â¢s general unwillingness to defend Senator Santorumââ¬â¢s remarks supportive of Texasââ¬â¢s law against sodomy, leaving the Pennsylvania senator to fend for himself in the face of withering attacks by leftist media and ideologues. These conservatives are also greatly alarmed by the secret meeting Marc Racicot, Republican National Chairman, held with the Human Rights Campaign, the radical homosexual activist group. At the meeting Racicot spoke of "tolerance" and "inclusiveness" and voiced no opposition to the groupââ¬â¢s agenda for homosexual marriage, adoption rights and civil rights protection.
[...]
2003-08-03 18:25 | User Profile
Zoroaster,
Sadly I fear you are Right!
**It's a sad fact about American culture that a pervert can arouse more recognition writing or talking about his lifestyle than Bo Gritz can by teaching Americans self defense.
It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher, and Colonel Gritz is simply too much of an American to speak at its convention. The AFP is just another Buchanan Judas goat. Smart folks who put America first and back third-party movements wil take their support elsewhere. -Z-**
I fear what I said before is true: "A Paleocon Political Party must be build on European Ethnic Nationalism or it is just a waste of time!"
Other America First Party threads:
**America First Party Plan Callings for Immigration Controls [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=5732&hl]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...owtopic=5732&hl[/url]
America First Party [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=6292&hl]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...owtopic=6292&hl[/url]
And one on the GOP
WHY DO CONSERVATIVES CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE GOP? [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=9919]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...?showtopic=9919[/url] **
"Maybe some should look up the platform of the old American Know-Nothing Party, it might have some good ideas. I think of myself as a Warren G. Harding Republican. The basic problem we face is our Constitutional System is not going to survive crisis of our times, the damage done in 1865, 1932, 1965, and the works of the Bushies and Clinton is all coming to a head. Rebuilding our Constitutional System, after the end of these "times of trouble" we live will not be easy, but We must try. We should look to what was done in America before 1865, and use that as our model."-Faust
A Paleocon Political Party must be... Any thoughts??? [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=25&t=6485]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...=ST&f=25&t=6485[/url]
2003-08-03 18:34 | User Profile
It appears the American First Party's first impluse is to make itself kosher I think this attitude in the AFP can be attributed to chairman Dan Charles, a Jewish activist. Not just Charles, I've seen articles on the strong position Jews obtained in general obtained in the AFP after their founding Florida convention here at OD. But as Chairman Dan Charles is certainly prominent.
Makes you wonder why they grant interviews then to Willis Carto's American Free Press if they're so philosemitic. Check out the "In the News" section at americafirstparty.org **
Check those references again. They're at least a year old. And you might want to save that web page - I suspect its days in its present form are numbered.
Also, if this spat torpedoed their convention two days before it was to start, then this party is on the fast-track to oblivion. There's probably some pissed off folks who bought plane tickets and made lodging reservations.
Well it was over a month ago according to the referenced thread that talk about the convention started to crop up, so I doubt whatever happened came out of the blue like that. In any event, it usually not the rich country clubbers that get snookered by stuff like this, or that would be hurt financially.
2003-08-03 18:40 | User Profile
A Paleocon Political Party must be... Any thoughts??? [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=25&t=6485]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...=ST&f=25&t=6485[/url]
Check out DarkEddy :lol:
**--A US party without multiracial appeal will not win elections.......
--It is crucial that a paleoconservative party be a large tent party on some key issues: abortion, isolationism, and trade policy are the main ones to note here. No conservative party can afford to exclude pro-choice individuals, individuals who favored war with Iraq, or individuals who want foreign markets open to US goods even if that means we must have some openness to their goods.
The America First party makes all these exclusions. It will never get anywhere. **
People like him ought to be happy with where the AFP is headed. :thd:
Although he just seemed to be the first (perhaps excepting rban) of a trend here.
2003-08-03 19:22 | User Profile
**One would think that AFP might learn from Buchanan's 2000 mistakes, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I suspect AFP has been neutered before it even had a chance to mature. **
That raises an interesting question, AY.
Do you think the Israel-First contingent in the AFP is sincere about wanting the party to go anywhere (albeit in a Religious Right direction), or do you think they are merely sitting on the reigns of leadership to prevent a nationalist/populist party from gaining traction, not really caring if it accomplishes anything else?
2003-08-03 19:45 | User Profile
That raises an interesting question, AY.
Do you think the Israel-First contingent in the AFP is sincere about wanting the party to go anywhere (albeit in a Religious Right direction), or do you think they are merely sitting on the reigns of leadership to prevent a nationalist/populist party from gaining traction, not really caring if it accomplishes anything else?
Compared the the Constitution Party, it really does not seem to have a lot of Phylis Schaefly type long-time religious right political activists. What it does seem to have is a lot of people from the Perotist-Reform/Buchanan-Reform debacle, which was hardly a hotbot of hardcore religious rightists.
I suspect a good educated guess would point at the second option.
Interestingly, the "false flag" operation Mr. Tsun talks about possibly happening at the NA seems almost to have almost a perfect setup at the AFP. It is harder though to know about the NA since it is so secretive (to some extent necessarily) -but the struggles that seem to have occurred at the AFP from what I'm reading and hearing between an entenched status quo leadership and a challenging movement might be more transparently seen to have these characterestics if someone was to dig into it.
2003-08-03 20:15 | User Profile
While Gritz might not be the best choice as a political candidate (then again, AFP can does do much worse, at least Gritz has good name recognition), having him as a guest speaker makes perfect sense. Having him endorse a candidate would get his survivalist admirers "out of the woods" so to speak and into realpolitik. Alienating this constituency (as with the racialists) makes absolutely no sense. Well Gritz is not an unknown quantity, having run for President on Carto's Populist Party ticket in 92. In 92, the dynamic of the militia movement was stronger than it is now, and he didn't exactly take the political world by storm, although it seems he got over 100,000 votes.
It seems to me that militia movement has had quite a bit of exposure to hard-core racialists, but there doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of convergence, ADL ravings notwithstanding. I've heard anecdotal accounts of the failure of these longtime efforts to reach out to these people by people like Metzger and Peters and bring them out "of the woods" without any real success.
The Rambo set seems a hard sell on conventional political action. Plus, with that much hard to control firepower around, it would seem an easy enough job by federal auythorities etc. to provoke an incident and shut things down if they ever started showing signs of succeeding.
One would think that AFP might learn from Buchanan's 2000 mistakes, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I suspect AFP has been neutered before it even had a chance to mature.
Well Buchanan people certainly do seem to be slow learners. I suspect though it might just be their level of training and organization. In these type of organizations you tend to have a lot of mom and pop people on pensions. Vs. sophisticated resistance tactics coordinated by people obviously recipient of a fair amount of political training and oftetimes cozy with groups like the ADL/SPLC and mainstream/neocon organizations (who both have and take a great deal of interest in neutralizing these types of movements) it isn't hard to see who gets outsmarted.
One suspects if Pat was more serious about maintaining his political movement than keeping Bay in control of things he might be able to do a better job of organizing and training a semi-permanent group of cadres, but in some ways he hardly seems much better than Perot in this respect. Maybe people like Zoroaster are right about Pat.
2003-08-03 21:23 | User Profile
FYI to moderates and newbies: I had an interesting e-mail conversation one day with [ahem, cough] a certain author at a West Coast university. I said, at one point, that [paraphrasing] "any paleo/rightist movement that wants to succeed MUST exclude ALL Jews from that movement. No ifs, ands or buts."
He said [paraphrasing]: "yes, that would be the most critical step to take."
Bada-BING! :) Take a lesson, newbies and moderates. Get to the taproot [slap, slap!]
2003-08-03 21:32 | User Profile
Franco, reading over this thread again, by Jean West's account is was the fanatical Christian Zionists who subverted the AFP.
At this point, Jewish/ADL/SPLC meddling is just speculation on our parts. Though, I suppose anyone could assume any facade they chose to achieve their goals.
2003-08-03 21:50 | User Profile
Can traditional Christians officially condemn the zionut "Christians"? That would be a step in the right direction, if the cohesion of the Christian teaching is to be preserved. Most people's sour outlook at Christianity, at least in the US, is caused by this type of hypocritical junk-peddling sleazy "Christians". Sometimes to increase the popularity of your ideas, instead of "inclusion" you must "exclude", if coherency is to be maintained. Then even Franco would sign up at the nearest Church :lol:
2003-08-03 22:04 | User Profile
**Can traditional Christians officially condemn the zionut "Christians"? **
Heresy is heresy. Traditional Christians may not be able to condemn the Christian Zionists, but they can surely comdemn their belief system.
Aside from its flawed theology, look at the poisoned fruit this theology has brought forth in the worldview of its adherents. They cheer on wars and human suffering (as long as the state of Israel benefits) so they can be "raptured," even to the detriment of Christians in the Middle East. Many--but not all--refuse to impact and engage their culture positively as well, then complain about the moral decay of society. Some even welcome it as prophetic and a sign that the end times are near.
2003-08-03 22:21 | User Profile
AY,
Better for the AFP to be compromised and outed now in its infancy than later on after well-meaning folk have poured time and money into it.
2003-08-04 01:21 | User Profile
Not quite. Among those running for leadership positions and their supporters, there were a number of vocal Jew/Israel supporters who vigorously opposed some equally vocal Jew/Israel critics. And there were also some highly emotional dispensationalists -- the furor surrounding Bo Gritz's invitation came mainly from these, who railed against his association with Christian Identity (racist, Nazi, etc.).
It would be nice if Jean could give us a better intrepretation of the alignment she saw in the AFP; vocal Jews/Israel supporters, vocal Jew/Israel opponents, and finally "highly emotional" dispensationalists.
The other members seem to get the impression from this that the opposition to Gritz was led by people banging their bibles loudly and constantly reciting how Gritz must not be allowed to interfere with the sovereign will of God to give "Judea and Samaria" to Israel.
My general impression of dispensationalists is more along the lines of Jim Robinson of Free Republic, a crudely cynical political manipulator maneuvering for power by enforcing the neocon line. Reading the published reports and reading some e-mail accounts I don't ever seeing dispensationalist religion coming up at all in party accounts of the debate over Bo Gritz. While the alleged anti-semitism of Gritz was a factor, it seems highly unlikely that it was directly mentioned i.a.w. dispensationalism of any sort.
The language of dispensationalism is not usually the language of political discussions it seems to me, and even at Free Republic I've can't ever recall meeting a real highly emotional dispensationalist. They call you a hater and anti-semite indistinguishably from the ADL/neocon kommissars here, but they never throw the bible at you and say you're going to hell.
2003-08-04 01:25 | User Profile
Franco, reading over this thread again, by Jean West's account is was the fanatical Christian Zionists who subverted the AFP.
At this point, Jewish/ADL/SPLC meddling is just speculation on our parts. Though, I suppose anyone could assume any facade they chose to achieve their goals.
Actually I have it on account of a reliable source you would recognize that there were AFP members, including at least one high ranking one, who directly cooperated with the ADL and other organizations in an effort to root out "anti-semitism" within the party.
2003-08-04 01:51 | User Profile
FWI,
did they ask the ADL for dossiers?
2003-08-04 03:11 | User Profile
**Vice Versa, and they complied. **
No doubt the Giles campaign peaked the ADL's interest to focus attention on the party.
2003-08-04 05:59 | User Profile
Do you think the Israel-First contingent in the AFP is sincere about wanting the party to go anywhere (albeit in a Religious Right direction), or do you think they are merely sitting on the reigns of leadership to prevent a nationalist/populist party from gaining traction, not really caring if it accomplishes anything else?
Having observed some of the goings-on in the AFP as of late, I would most definitely say the latter.
As it stands now, the AFP is a dead letter office for serious conservatives and nationalists politically. Each of us does more for the cause posting here than wasting time trying to build-up that train wreck.
2003-08-04 13:08 | User Profile
Thanks for the heads up, Centinel, when the glory days of Chuck Harder ended, I stopped listening to talk radio. It reached its peak just before and after the OKC bombing.
In addition to guys like Harder and Jim Hightower, there were plenty of local populists who honestly presented serious issues. Then "Big Brother" moved in and bought up the local stations. Crystal Air, owned by Bush insider Jim Hicks, now controls roughtly 1,200 local stations. It all started when the Limbaugh creature slept in the Lincoln bedroom under Bush the Elder. Limbaugh's mentor, the Roger Ailes toad who heads Fox news, has been around since Reagan. The internet is the only honest news source left.
With more and more Americans becoming aware of ZOG, what's happened in the AFP may reflect an emerging pattren in which suckpoop Zionist goys inflitrate and derail any third-party populist movement that would oppose ZOG before such movements can get off the ground.
-Z-
2003-08-04 16:36 | User Profile
**With more and more Americans becoming aware of ZOG, what's happened in the AFP may reflect an emerging pattren in which suckpoop Zionist goys inflitrate and derail any third-party populist movement that would oppose ZOG before such movements can get off the ground.
-Z-**
The tactics used certainly seem undemocratic that's for sure. They are technically legal, but I tell you, for years I have always been pretty hard on those radical WN's who always bash participating in our "undemocratic", "unfair", and "rigged" democratic system, when there were candidates like Buchanan and Buchananite parties he was trying to set up which seemed to give a fair democratic alternative.
I bet there are a number of AFP supporters who thought and spoke along these lines who now have big eggs on their faces.
2003-08-04 19:37 | User Profile
** Frederick William I wrote:
Actually I have it on account of a reliable source you would recognize that there were AFP members, including at least one high ranking one, who directly cooperated with the ADL and other organizations in an effort to root out "anti-semitism" within the party. **
That is very significant, and would make a nice write-up, or mere mention, at VNN. Can you provide any details, either by a regular post or by a PM, or by e-mail?
:)
2003-08-09 18:08 | User Profile
So what's up with the AFP and the ADL, FWI? Inquiring minds wanna know.
2003-08-09 21:15 | User Profile
So what's up with the AFP and the ADL, FWI? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Rumours within the AFP of the activities below are widespread. I have personally seen versions of these rumours that appear very detailed and credible. Also I've been told these rumours jibe with the public behavior of the party activities of these men, although I personally am not closely acquainted with AFP internal politics. One is led to believe that these activities are closely associated with the mysterious internal politics that erupted within the AFP.
Hi ranking officers (those Ditto associated with the "non-extremist" elements) collected dossiers on party members.
There were operatives within the party working with the ADL, and apparently other organizations such as the SPLC and Mexican groups
Hi ranking officers associated with present "non-extremist" rump faction knew of these of these operative's activities and approved of them, as it made party more "mainstream" and furthered their ambitions, political and otherwise.
It would be interesting perhaps to see if someone directly familiar with AFP internal politics could comment. As is often the case though many more people are willing to discuss these things off the record than on it. Of course one always wonders how many people other than the ADL are really interested in such.
What is interesting of course according to some Liberty Forum people is that these sorts of intrigue have been seen elsewhere in the general, right of neoconGOP, non-PC political world. One wonders if these general types of incidents and infights, such as those that have occurred in the SCV, among others, have a common denominator. One also wonders however if they do how much resources and inner organization the enemies of the ADL positions have vs. the ADL's friends. Clearly without unusually concerted and organized resistance when the ADL wants something, like the purging of the AFP of extremists, its able to get it, although the Chester Doles matter has the signs of potentially being an encouraging exception.
2003-08-10 12:48 | User Profile
Frederick William I,
**"So what's up with the AFP and the ADL, FWI? Inquiring minds wanna know."-Centinel
"Rumours within the AFP of the activities below are widespread. I have personally seen versions of these rumours that appear very detailed and credible. Also I've been told these rumours jibe with the public behavior of the party activities of these men, although I personally am not closely acquainted with AFP internal politics. One is led to believe that these activities are closely associated with the mysterious internal politics that erupted within the AFP.
Hi ranking officers (those Ditto associated with the "non-extremist" elements) collected dossiers on party members.
There were operatives within the party working with the ADL, and apparently other organizations such as the SPLC and Mexican groups
Hi ranking officers associated with present "non-extremist" rump faction knew of these of these operative's activities and approved of them, as it made party more "mainstream" and furthered their ambitions, political and otherwise."Frederick William I**
It is sad that the SPLC seems to work it's way into so many goups even the SCV. I do understand the SCV has gotten somewhat better now, but sue they still have a lot of these marxists and morons. But this story still makes one sick.
SCV members thank SPLC; SCV chapter donates [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=4291&hl=]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...wtopic=4291&hl=[/url]
Original Dissent Forum Search Engine: SPLC [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=Search&nav=&CODE=show&searchid=c98a8eeb21b45b300eed99d7b0eee181&search_in=posts&result_type=topics&hl=&st=0]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...topics&hl=&st=0[/url]
2003-08-15 08:25 | User Profile
[url=http://www.americanfreepress.net/Patriot_News/Beware_Threats_to_Infant_Party/beware_threats_to_infant_party.html]American Free Press: Beware Threats to Infant Party[/url]
(Publication date unknown)
Both Dan Charles and John Hey, the interim leaders of the nascent America First Party, have taken precautions to logically and methodically confront the change agents and various and sundry government stooges whose sole purpose is to corrupt and defile the patriotic and God-fearing organizations in the country.
While observing and participating in American politics the last four decades we have seen the rise and fall of many organizations that proudly espoused to be pro- American collapse from within, not without a lot of un wanted help.
This fine art of infiltration was perfected by the communists, who are still around but travelling under different banners. They would infiltrate a group, promote a leader from that group who proceeds to tarnish any good name the organization had. Internal dissension reigns and within a short time the group folds up, its leaders and members discredited.
This kind of operation takes money, big money to be successful. Often only the federal government with its bottomless pit of taxpayersââ¬â¢ dollars can launch such a program.
A master of keeping files on political dissidents and spending government funds to do so was J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Hoover and his FBI were noted for their infamous COINTELPRO (ââ¬ÅCounter-Intelligence Pro gramââ¬Â). Working very closely with the Anti-Defamation League of Bââ¬â¢nai Bââ¬â¢rith, an illegal unregistered agent of a foreign powerââ¬âIsraelââ¬âthey allowed ADL agents to infiltrate organizations that were on the ââ¬Åsuspect listââ¬Â of persons in ââ¬Ådissidentââ¬Â organizations.
During the mid-1970s after the death of director Hoover the nefarious COINTELPRO was unmasked.
So intense was the public outrage over the operation of COINTELPRO that new guidelines were issued for the FBI under which the organization could not spy on political dissidents.
The CIA for years has brazenly violated its charter, which is supposed to prohibit the agency from domestic spying. It even establishes front organizations for its work.
The Young Americans for Freedom, founded by CIA agent Bill Buckley, comes to mind. Students were in this case on the right. Their left-wing counterpart was the National Student Association. Both sides were directed by the CIA.
The CIA has untold millions of dollars at its disposal. For years the budget of the CIA has been estimated to be $30 billion. But only a select few with connections to the high levels of the plutocratic establishment are aware of the exact amount.
Today, the CIA funds are said to keep the once dynamic Institute for Historical Review afloat similar to the way the agency sponsored the Committee for Cultural Freedom and other controlled front groups.
On the other hand, the CIA and the FBI and allied operations such as the ADL and Morris Deesââ¬â¢s Southern Poverty Law Center also work to destroy groups they canââ¬â¢t control.
The new America First Party must be constantly on guard that it is not infiltrated to its detriment. The inner circle of the leadership of the America First Party certainly has the experience and the expertise to keep infiltrators out. Still, membership must be open. The way to keep the focus and drive of the party on target is to keep unknown individuals busy doing tasks that wonââ¬â¢t impact on policy. The leadership must always be ââ¬Åwise as serpents and harmless as doves.ââ¬Â (Matt. 10:16)
Today we find Attorney General John Ashcroft wanting to reactivate the old COINTELPRO with all its sinister powers. The presidentââ¬â¢s unconstitutional declaration of war on terrorism created the ââ¬Åurgencyââ¬Â for such action.
American Free Press will cover this new party as it covers other news stories. So you wonââ¬â¢t have to rely on your local establishment paper to let know about it (as if they would).
2003-08-16 03:47 | User Profile
[url=http://www.americanfreepress.net/Patriot_News/Beware_Threats_to_Infant_Party/beware_threats_to_infant_party.html]American Free Press: Beware Threats to Infant Party[/url]
(Publication date unknown)**
See the date on news "Updated 05/14/02 ".
This dates it to near the start of the party.
**Both Dan Charles and John Hey, the interim leaders of the nascent America First Party, have taken precautions to logically and methodically confront the change agents and various and sundry government stooges whose sole purpose is to corrupt and defile the patriotic and God-fearing organizations in the country.............
On the other hand, the CIA and the FBI and allied operations such as the ADL and Morris Dees?s Southern Poverty Law Center also work to destroy groups they can?t control.
The new America First Party must be constantly on guard that it is not infiltrated to its detriment. The inner circle of the leadership of the America First Party certainly has the experience and the expertise to keep infiltrators out. Still, membership must be open. The way to keep the focus and drive of the party on target is to keep unknown individuals busy doing tasks that won?t impact on policy. The leadership must always be ?wise as serpents and harmless as doves.? (Matt. 10:16)............
American Free Press will cover this new party as it covers other news stories. So you won?t have to rely on your local establishment paper to let know about it (as if they would).
I'm waiting to see the America Free Press follow up story. Hey and Charles eh? Isn't that like putting the foxes in charge of guarding the chicken coop?
:ph34r:
BTW, somewhere on the America First Party website I've heard there is, or at least used to be, a picture of Hey. Just from the looks of him you'd suspect he'd eaten quite a few chickens - in fact eats quite a few chickens each day :lol:
(Thanks for digging this up Cent)
2003-08-16 04:06 | User Profile
He probably had ties to National Socialist, KKK, and Skinhead groups. Such ties always lead to ruins. OD would be smart to learn from this example.
Regards,
Ares
2003-08-16 04:19 | User Profile
What OD would be wise to learn from is that cranks like Ares that blatantly lie about the positions if others need to find somewhere else to post about aliens and sci-fi. As he doesn't seem to know anything about the AFP it would seem better to ask then presume to know something about the charaters involved.
2003-08-16 07:57 | User Profile
He probably had ties to National Socialist, KKK, and Skinhead groups. Such ties always lead to ruins.
You talkin' about Hey? If so, then I assure you such is not the case.
About the only thing we can say with certainty concerning Hey's ties at this point is that they more than likely have gravy stains on them. :)
2003-08-16 08:26 | User Profile
You talkin' about Hey? If so, then I assure you such is not the case.
Okey, I retract my speculation then.
Regards,
Ares
2003-08-18 12:22 | User Profile
Not quite. Among those running for leadership positions and their supporters, there were a number of vocal Jew/Israel supporters who vigorously opposed some equally vocal Jew/Israel critics. And there were also some highly emotional dispensationalists -- the furor surrounding Bo Gritz's invitation came mainly from these, who railed against his association with Christian Identity (racist, Nazi, etc.).
It would be nice if Jean could give us a better intrepretation of the alignment she saw in the AFP; vocal Jews/Israel supporters, vocal Jew/Israel opponents, and finally "highly emotional" dispensationalists.
The other members seem to get the impression from this that the opposition to Gritz was led by people banging their bibles loudly and constantly reciting how Gritz must not be allowed to interfere with the sovereign will of God to give "Judea and Samaria" to Israel.
My general impression of dispensationalists is more along the lines of Jim Robinson of Free Republic, a crudely cynical political manipulator maneuvering for power by enforcing the neocon line. Reading the published reports and reading some e-mail accounts I don't ever seeing dispensationalist religion coming up at all in party accounts of the debate over Bo Gritz. While the alleged anti-semitism of Gritz was a factor, it seems highly unlikely that it was directly mentioned i.a.w. dispensationalism of any sort.
The language of dispensationalism is not usually the language of political discussions it seems to me, and even at Free Republic I've can't ever recall meeting a real highly emotional dispensationalist. They call you a hater and anti-semite indistinguishably from the ADL/neocon kommissars here, but they never throw the bible at you and say you're going to hell.**
Please excuse the delay; I only just noticed that there had been a response to my post.
There was a person on the AFP chat list who posted a large number of anti-Israel / anti-Jewish-cabal posts. In the course of posting that material, the subject of Christian Zionism very naturally came up, and this person proceeded to post unflattering information about Scofield and about his Bible, which infuriated one of the leaders, who is a passionately committed dispensationalist (and one of the threesome including Jewish Chairman Dan Charles, which is now taking control and rebuilding what's left of AFP).
Gritz was outed as a follower of Christian Identity, not dispensationalism, and the words "Christian Identity" brought out cries of racism, Nazism, etc. from a number of people, but certainly including the dispensationalists, whose Biblical interpretations conflict dramatically with CI's Biblical interpretations.
The entire religious right movement, including all of the well-known televangelists, draws its teachings from the Zionist-funded Scofield Study Bible, which was political from the moment of its birth, with the protection and advancement of Israel and the Jews as its goal.
JW
2003-08-18 13:02 | User Profile
He probably had ties to National Socialist, KKK, and Skinhead groups. Such ties always lead to ruins.
You talkin' about Hey? If so, then I assure you such is not the case.
About the only thing we can say with certainty concerning Hey's ties at this point is that they more than likely have gravy stains on them. **
I don't know about the gravy stains : ) but I certainly agree that the idea of John Hey (who is, by the way, the extremely emotional dispensationalist I've spoken of--he fairly sputters with rage) being tied to NS, KKK or Skinhead groups is laughable, unless his writings deceive.
I communicate with a few people who have intimate knowledge of the AFP--before and after--and they've never mentioned possible ADL/SPLC involvement. I take it for granted, though, that the ADL nose, at least, is sniffing around in any group effort, especially political.
I don't know if I or anyone else has mentioned it, but one of the splinter groups has formed a new party called the America Founding Fathers Party (AFFP).
JW
2003-08-18 15:33 | User Profile
I communicate with a few people who have intimate knowledge of the AFP--before and after--and they've never mentioned possible ADL/SPLC involvement. I take it for granted, though, that the ADL nose, at least, is sniffing around in any group effort, especially political.* With all due respect, how is anyone going to know? People don't put a sign up saying "Hey, I'm an ADL operative" (at least on Buchananite parties).
Reading the original America Free Press article, one is struck by the shrillness of the talk about such ADL operatives. Clearly there is a lot of smoke here, being put up by someone. How much of it is confusion, is any of ot diversion, how much is related to what is actually going on?
It sounds like a complicated story, but one would tend to think "where there's smoke, there's fire" still holds true.
**I don't know if I or anyone else has mentioned it, but one of the splinter groups has formed a new party called the America Founding Fathers Party (AFFP).
JW
You don't have a link or website to them do you? In any event, one wonders what they've learned from last time. If legitimate, this marks the 3rd splinter effort - Buchanan-Reform from Reform, AFP from Buchan-Reform, and now AFFP from AFP(maybe this isn't strictly accurate, but I wonder who really cares by now anyway?)
2003-08-18 21:48 | User Profile
I don't know about the gravy stains : ) but I certainly agree that the idea of John Hey (who is, by the way, the extremely emotional dispensationalist I've spoken of--he fairly sputters with rage) being tied to NS, KKK or Skinhead groups is laughable, unless his writings deceive.
Odd that these passionite Christian Zionists would hang their hats with a party that adamantly opposes foreign aid, unless their only motive is to neutralize it.
2003-11-05 01:14 | User Profile
bump for discussion
2003-11-05 03:58 | User Profile
Centinel,
I Paleocon Political Party must built on the idea of Folk-Culture and saving America as an Anglo-Saxon and European Nation in blood and culture. In the past this take for granted, even F.D.R. said America was a W.A.S.P. Nation and V. Dare was the first American.
What I have said before: [QUOTE]I fear what I said before is true: "A Paleocon Political Party must be build on European Ethnic Nationalism or it is just a waste of time!"
"Maybe some should look up the platform of the old American Know-Nothing Party, it might have some good ideas. I think of myself as a Warren G. Harding Republican. The basic problem we face is our Constitutional System is not going to survive crisis of our times, the damage done in 1865, 1932, 1965, and the works of the Bushies and Clinton is all coming to a head. Rebuilding our Constitutional System, after the end of these "times of trouble" we live will not be easy, but We must try. We should look to what was done in America before 1865, and use that as our model."-Faust[/QUOTE]
2003-11-05 04:22 | User Profile
I'm with you, Faust. What we need is a leader. Andrew Jackson, where are you?
-Z-