← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Centinel
Thread ID: 8702 | Posts: 40 | Started: 2003-08-02
2003-08-02 17:41 | User Profile
From Reuters, available online at: [url=http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3208507]http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=...storyID=3208507[/url]
Skinheads Attack Stockholm Gay Pride Parade
Sat August 2, 2003 12:28 PM ET
STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - A group of around 30 skinheads attacked marchers in a gay pride parade in Stockholm with stones and bottles on Saturday, police and a Reuters witness said.
A young man on the annual march promoting gay, lesbian and transsexual rights was injured in the head and taken to hospital. A police spokesman said his life was not in danger.
The assault took place just after the parade of 4,000 to 5,000 people had passed the Royal Palace in central Stockholm, unveiling a huge rainbow flag.
"A group of around 30 people jumped from behind a street corner and started beating the marchers and throwing bottles at them," said a Reuters cameraman at the scene.
He said the attackers carried banners reading, "Lock up pedophiles" and "Crush pedophiles," referring to a recent advertising campaign by a gay and lesbian rights group featuring pictures of young children.
The campaign, aiming to show that gay orientation can start at an early age, has drawn protests from a child protection group that said the sexual depiction of children could encourage pedophiles.
"We wanted to demonstrate against gay adoptions and against linking sexuality to children," said Marc Abramsson, a leader of the youth organization of the right-wing National Democrats, which had organized a demonstration against the gay parade.
He said about 200 anti-gay protesters had been demonstrating peacefully near the palace until the marchers threw bottles at them.
But a police spokesman said anti-gay activists had started the brawl. Police arrested two people for assault and drove groups of skinheads away from the city center to prevent more violence. The parade resumed later without further trouble. (Additional reporting by Gleb Bryanski)
2003-08-03 00:23 | User Profile
I am not really the biggest fan of the skinheads, but in this instance, radical times call for radical solutions. Someone has to rollback the gay faction.
2003-08-03 02:49 | User Profile
When things finally collapse, the "gays" and other "special" groups are going to wish they were getting this type of treatment instead of the remedies they will be served.
2003-08-03 10:58 | User Profile
Delightful story - and you can bet that many "mainstream" folks took secret delight in it, too: we're all sick to death of these filthy drag queens, bulldykes & leather freaks prancing down our streets, lisping their rotten slogans. They've gone way too far and become insufferable, as all faggots inevitably do. Virtually everyone wants to see them kicked back into the closet.
2003-08-04 17:11 | User Profile
An Oven would be even better!
Ja wohl! Schnell! :hit:
2003-08-04 19:20 | User Profile
The Skinheads engaged in illegal and uncivilized behavior by initiating violence against peaceful homosexuals. This is the same as when anti-racists, like the ARA, initiate violence against peaceful National Alliance demonstrations.
I support pressing criminal charges against these violent Skinheads. I am suprised though that some OD members here are cheering on illegal and violent behavior! Surely people coming to OD for the first time will not be "charmed" by this. But then, I am sure that many mainstream people will be cheering on when the ARA carries out their next terrorist attacks upon the next large peaceful White Nationalist public demonstration. I think the phrase is "What goes around comes around?"
Regards,
Ares
2003-08-04 21:58 | User Profile
**An Oven would be even better! **
I was just going to say that, before too long, the trianguloids will discover that there are worse places than the closet...
I remember 20 years ago or so, when they were wondering what steps to take against the AIDS epidemic, somebody proposed shutting down the San Francisco bathhouses. The news showed fags protesting against this infringement of their "rights." A bunch of a$$clowns dressed up like nuns was squealing, "Out of the bathhouses, into the ovens!" Their notion being that once this evil, draconian health measure was taken, it was a short step to the deathcamps.
Most of those protestors are, I'm sure, long dead, but the ones running around now keeping their HIV at bay with taxpayer-funded retrovirals may live yet to hear the doors clang behind them.
2003-08-04 23:57 | User Profile
***>>>The Skinheads engaged in illegal and uncivilized behavior by initiating violence against peaceful homosexuals. ***
Spare us your pacifist moaning. If you are that fond of weakness, go plant a flower garden with all the other submissionists, liberal and conservative. What is wrong with violence? The world is a violent place. It always has been. America uses violence against some country virtually every other year or so.
***>>>This is the same as when anti-racists, like the ARA, initiate violence against peaceful National Alliance demonstrations. ***
I do not degrade my own people by equating them to the ARA.
>>>I support pressing criminal charges against these violent Skinheads.
Violence is simply one form of coercion. The state is by its nature coercive. Do you have a problem with military force? Its sole purpose is to coerce others.
***>>>I am suprised though that some OD members here are cheering on illegal and violent behavior! ***
LOL first of all, just what is this "illegal" behaviour? You speak as if laws made by idiotic democratic politicians that pander to special interests are cloaked in divinity. The Boston Tea Party was an act of violence, of vandalism. This country was created by violence and is using violence in this world today. I have no objection to violence in the abstract, on principle.
>>>Surely people coming to OD for the first time will not be "charmed" by this. But then, I am sure that many mainstream people will be cheering on when the ARA carries out their next terrorist attacks upon the next large peaceful White Nationalist public demonstration. I think the phrase is "What goes around comes around?"
I am new here myself. I am also a firm believer that sometimes civil war and revolutions are necessary to overthrow an intolerable government. Grasp this truth - political power rolls out of the barrel of a gun. Whether you may or may not like this is irrelevent.
2003-08-06 04:43 | User Profile
The cornholers have openly strutted and minced and spread their deadly filth throughout our countries for over 30 years now, and people at getting fed-up at long last. They've infested all the most beautiful places, ruining them for normal people with their tainted presence: San Francisco, Key West, etc.
Soon the pushy Sodomite bastards are going to be smashed, and what a joy it will be.
2003-08-06 05:02 | User Profile
It is likely well known to everyone here that I am totally against any form of perversion and fully support it's societal repression. I also have zero problems with vigilantes protecting their neighborhoods with violence should the police fail in their duties and I have no problem with skins or anyone else taking vengeance on those that terrorize our lansmen, families and comrades if the state fails to bring leftist terrorists to justice.
However, I am very much against hooliganism as it shows a terrible lack of discipline and will likely end in prison terms for those involved and increased police harassment for law abiding racialists. Assaulting the depraved for no reason other then their being debased scum is a public relations boon for our enemies and such actions make it much harder for those involved in public activism to convince our lansmen of the threat that moral degeneracy has for a salubrious way of life and community viability.
Now when reading the story that started this thread I canââ¬â¢t tell who started the brawl so I will withhold judgement on the matter. I will say that calls for murder found in this thread are counter productive to effective action against the moral contagion that the perverts publicly push and we should avoid such flights of escapism.
2003-08-06 10:29 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 5 2003, 23:13 * ** > Soon the pushy Sodomite bastards are going to be smashed, and what a joy it will be.*
Kill every last "queer" & you still wouldn't be rid of your own homosexual desires. & that's the root of your animosity - sprouted from the fertile soil of Jewish scripture:
"If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
(There are no comparable "Aryan"/pagan writings condemning same-sex attraction or behavior) **
This is a gross oversimplification of the issue, Raina. We are dealing with a group of people (militant homosexuals) who identify themselves politically/socially in terms of bizarre sexual behaviors that they choose to indulge in. The very fact that such people have secured advocates in the highest levels of government is cause for concern.
Is it really any wonder that the Western World is collapsing when the issue of the day is whether or not men who sodomize one another are worthy of government issued entitlements?
2003-08-06 11:24 | User Profile
**Kill every last "queer" & you still wouldn't be rid of your own homosexual desires. & that's the root of your animosity - sprouted from the fertile soil of Jewish scripture:
"If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
(There are no comparable "Aryan"/pagan writings condemning same-sex attraction or behavior)**
How do you know that NB Forrest is a pagan? He might be for all I know, but I distinctly remember him cheering on Judge Roy Moore's stand on the Decalogue a few months back:
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=4483&hl=commandments]Moses & Judge Moore vs. Morris Dees, Pat Buchanan[/url]
"God, do I hope the Supremes order the troops in. White Southerners may not be willing at this point to openly go to the barricades for the race, but they just might for Jesus."
Would seem to indicate he's got some Christianity in his background as a traditional Southerner.
Just because the Old Testament prohibition on homosexuality was a part of the levitical laws of ancient Israelites doesn't mean that Christians against homosexuality are expressing exclusively a Jewish viewpoint.
Commands from the Old Testament which are repeated or clarified in the New Testament comprise the moral (natural) law:
Romans 1:26-27 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Raina, the moral law transcends time and peoples. It is neither "Jewish" nor "Christian." God imposed it on mankind from the very beginning. Adam and Eve suffered for breaking it, as did Cain. It was written on the hearts of all men since creation:
Romans 2:14-15 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
2003-08-06 14:02 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 5 2003, 23:13 * (There are no comparable "Aryan"/pagan writings condemning same-sex attraction or behavior)*
Facts aren't your forte. I notice your bald lies are generally accompanied by some stale liberal line such as "your dislike of my perversity is an expression of you're own repressed perversity" and "there's only one race - the human race", cornier than Iowa but substantially less wholesome.
For those interested in the fallacy (excuse the phonetic pun) of normalised faggotry in the ancient White world [url=http://www.grecoreport.com/homosexuality_in_ancient_greece.htm]this article[/url] makes a good starting point from a White nationalist perspective.
2003-08-06 16:50 | User Profile
I don't particularly care for homosexuals, but then, I don't have any problems with them, as long as they're not parading around in pink leather chaps, lisping 'YMCA' at the top of their lungs, etc. :P
However....
"The study, by Henry F. Adams et al in the August 1996 Journal of Abnormal Psychology, found that the most-homophobic men were those who, though not openly gay themselves, nonetheless had the strongest homosexual urges, as measured by their penile circumference when being exposed to homosexual films. ...
I wonder what ethnicity Henry F. Adams and the others are? Adams, not a Jewish surname, but then again, it never hurts to be suspicious....
**What this suggests is that if one happens to be bigoted against a particular group (in this case, gays), then that bigotry is intensified by one's belief that one is or might be oneself a member of that group." (Zuesse, 2000) **
I shudder to consider what this would mean for many here...are we all crypto-Jews?? :jest:
2003-08-06 17:01 | User Profile
as measured by their penile circumference when being exposed to homosexual films.
Who the hell did the measuring? :blink:
2003-08-06 17:01 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 01:13 * ...you still wouldn't be rid of your own *homosexual desires. & that's the root of your animosity - sprouted from the fertile soil of Jewish scripture...
**
Apparently the root of your ideology is found in the discredited rot dished up by Jewish Freudians. Incidentally, attempting to characterize and discredit another as "homosexual" is quite an aggressive act. So much for your "defensive" posture.
Tell us again about how I don't back up my assertions.
Not only that, but your assertions are disingenuous and calculated to disrupt. One study isn't a proof, especially when the study itself makes allowance for an alternative conclusion. The lack of emphasis on this alternative conclusion- an altogether far more likely one, if not totally in step with "The Authoritarian Personality"-style doctrine- reveals the apparent agenda behind the study. The fact that you've chosen to omit mention of the alternative conclusion reveals your own agenda.
*http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html
Do these findings mean, then, that homophobia in men is a reaction to repressed homosexual urges, as psychoanalysis theorizes? While their findings are consistent with that theory, the authors note that there is another, competing theoretical explanation: anxiety. According to this theory, viewing the male homosexual videotape may have caused negative emotions (such as anxiety) in the homophobic men, but not in the nonhomophobic men. As the authors note, 'anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection,' and so it is also possible that 'a response to homosexual stimuli [in these men] is a function of the threat condition rather than sexual arousal per se. These competing notions can and should be evaluated by future research.'
Article: 'Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal?' by Henry E. Adams, Ph.D., Lester W. Wright, Jr., Ph.D. and Bethany A. Lohr, University of Georgia, in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, Vol. 105, No. 3, pp 440-445.*
2003-08-06 17:12 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 15:07 * "There is wide agreement among anthropologists and human geneticists that, from a biological standpoint*, human races do not exist," Sergio Pena & colleagues at the Universidade Federal de Minas Gerias in Brazil & the University of Porto in Portugal wrote in their report published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
"Yet races do exist as social constructs," they said.
"To their surprise, they found maternal DNA suggested that even the "white" people had, on average, 33 percent of genes that were of Amerindian ancestry and 28 percent African."**
Raina, The study found admixture between ethnic groups - in Brazil! :o No wonder you don't link to your quoted sources.
2003-08-06 19:00 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina+Aug 6 2003, 12:34 -->
QUOTE* (Raina @ Aug 6 2003, 12:34 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Leveller@Aug 6 2003, 11:12 * ** The study found admixture between ethnic groups - in Brazil! ** Just as other studies have found the same in Amerika & anywhere else. **
Raina: like I've said on many previous occasions: you're a dishonest, lying and perverted troll. (I thought that you were leaving...)
Aren't you getting tired of your old moronic "races don't exist" schtick?
I don't mind "antis", as long as they're intellectually honest and make a valid contribution to a discussion. You, on the other hand, are as stubborn as a mule.
I've already linked to this article before in reply to one of your standard, one-track posts. :y Here it comes again:
(Try to address at least some of the data, will you?) ...
"It is interesting to know that race differences show up early in life. Black babies are born a week earlier than White babies, yet they mature faster as measured by bone development. By age five or six, Black children excel in the dash, the long jump, and the high jump, all of which require a short burst of power. By the teenage years, Blacks have faster reflexes, as in the famous knee-jerk response.
Blacks also have from 3 to 19% more of the sex hormone testosterone than Whites or Orientals. This means more explosive energy, which gives Blacks the edge in sports like boxing, basketball, football, and sprinting.
Why is it taboo to say that Blacks are on average better at sports? Because the hormones that give Blacks the edge in sports also make them more masculine in general. They are physically more active in school, and this can sometimes get them into trouble or even lead to their being diagnosed as hyperactive.
So the next question is, ââ¬ÅWhy do East Asians and Whites and have wider hips than Blacks, and so make poorer runners?ââ¬Â The answer is that they give birth to larger brained babies. During evolution, as the head size of newborns increased, women had to have a wider pelvis. Orientals average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks.
Some people are surprised to hear that the races differ in brain size. And they wonder how convincing the evidence is that brain size is related to intelligence. In fact, dozens of studies, including those based on state-of-the-art magnetic resonance imaging, have demonstrated the relation between brain size and intelligence.
Race differences in brain size have been demonstrated using four different methods: (1) magnetic resonance imaging, (2) brain weight at autopsy, (3) endocranial volume, and (4) external head measurements. These data are summarized in Chart 2 which presents the brain size averages across the four measurement techniques and also, where possible, corrected for body size. Orientals averaged 1,364 cm3, Whites averaged 1,347 cm3, and Blacks averaged 1,267 cm3. Naturally the averages vary between samples and the races do overlap. But the results from different methods on different samples, measured from the 1840s to the 1990s, show the same strong pattern.
The racial differences in brain size show up at birth. One study of my own, published in the 1997 issue of the journal Intelligence, was carried out using the resources of the National Institute of Neurological and Communicative Disorders and Stroke (NINCDS) in Bethesda, Maryland. In it, I analyzed data from the enormous Collaborative Perinatal Project, which took head circumference measures and IQ scores from over 50,000 children followed from birth to seven years. The Oriental children averaged larger head circumferences than did the White children at birth, four months, one year, and seven years; the White children averaged larger head circumferences than did the Black children (see Chart 3).
I published several other studies during the 1990s, also in Intelligence, confirming the racial differences in brain size. In one study, I (1991) analyzed data from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and found the mean cranial capacity for East Asians was 1,460 cm3, and for Europeans it was 1,446 cm3. From a stratified random sample of 6,325 U.S. Army personnel, I (1992) calculated average cranial capacities for Asians, Whites, and Blacks, respectively, of 1,416 cm3, 1,380 cm3, and 1,359 cm3. (I also found that officers averaged 1,393 cm3 while enlisted personnel averaged 1,375 cm3.) From a compilation made by the International Labour Office in Geneva of tens of thousands of people from around the world, I (1994) found that samples from the Pacific Rim, Europe, and Africa averaged cranial capacities, respectively, of 1,308 cm3, 1,297 cm3, and 1,241 cm3. Travis Osborne and I (1995) published a paper showing that brain size was about 50% heritable for both Blacks and Whites using data from the Georgia Twin Study based on 236 pairs of Black and White adolescent twins. And once again we found Whites averaged greater cranial capacity than Blacks.
Since one cubic inch of brain matter contains millions of brain cells and hundreds of millions of nerve connections, brain size helps to explain why the races differ in IQ. On standardized IQ tests, hundreds of studies show the three-way pattern. Orientals average slightly ahead of Whites on such tests and Whites average substantially ahead of Blacks. Most IQ tests have an average score of 100, with a ââ¬Ånormalââ¬Â range from 85 to 115. Around the world, Whites average an IQ of about 100, Orientals an IQ of about 104, and Blacks in Britain, the Caribbean, and the U.S. average lower IQs -- about 85. The lowest average IQs are found for sub-Saharan Africans ââ¬â around 70 (see Chart 4).
...
The Evolution of Racial Differences Look back again at all the traits in Chart 1. They form a pattern. Whites consistently average between Orientals and Blacks in dozens of areas. Also, the groups with the largest brains have the lowest rates of two-egg twinning! Why? The answer lies in evolution. No purely cultural theory can explain all of these traits taken together. There is, however, a gene-based explanation that explicitly involves the trade-off between reproductive effort (twinning rates) and brain size. The patterns make up what is called a ââ¬Ålife-history.ââ¬Â They evolved together to meet the trials of life -- survival, growth, and reproduction.
I have explained the racial pattern in brain size, intelligence, and other traits using a gene-based life-history theory that evolutionary biologists call the r-K scale of reproductive strategies. At one end of this scale are r-strategies that rely on high reproductive rates. At the other end are K-strategies that rely on high levels of parental care. This scale is generally used to compare the life histories of different species of animals. I have used it to explain the smaller but real differences between the human races.
On this scale, Orientals are more K-selected than Whites, while Whites are more K-selected than Blacks. Highly K-selected women produce fewer eggs (and have bigger brains) than r-selected women. Highly K-selected men invest time and energy in their children rather than the pursuit of sexual thrills. They are ââ¬Ådadsââ¬Â rather than ââ¬Åcads.ââ¬Â
Race differences also make sense in terms of human evolution. Modern humans evolved in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Africans and non-Africans then split about 110,000 years ago. Orientals and Whites split about 40,000 years ago, around the time that modern humans were first in Europe. Analyses of DNA sequencing, along with the fossil and archaeological record, demonstrate this sequence, as does the pattern of traits shown in Chart 1.
The further north people went out of Africa, the harder it was to get food, gain shelter, make clothes, and raise children. So the groups that evolved into todayââ¬â¢s Whites and Orientals needed larger brains, more family stability, and a longer life. But building a bigger brain takes time and energy so there is a trade off with slower rates of growth, lower levels of sex hormones, less aggression, and less sexual activity. Thus came about the pattern of traits in Chart 1.
What are the implications of this research? One is, obviously, that race is a valid taxonomic construct. If it were not it would have no reliable predictive value and we would not find the same racial pattern all around the world and over time. The fact that, on average, African-descended children are born with smaller brains than European- or East Asian-descended children, regardless of where in the diasporas the children are located, allows reliable predictions to be made about their future academic and occupational achievement. Similarly, the fact that throughout the world Blacks have a stronger sex drive than Whites or East Asians explains why Black Americans, Black Caribbeans, and sub-Saharan Africans have the highest rates of sexually transmitted diseases, and why East Asians have even lower rates than Whites.
A second implication is that ââ¬ÅWhite racismââ¬Â is not responsible for all of societyââ¬â¢s problems. Black underachievement is not simply due to ââ¬ÅWhite prejudice.ââ¬Â It is more deeply rooted. On average, Black children are born with smaller brains than White or East Asian children. Pointing this out is not constructing stereotypes, it is simply observing facts as they are. Both science and justice call for us to seek and tell the truth, not to tell lies and spread error.
Another implication is that we have to accept that racial differences will not just disappear. Hitherto, most theories in the behavioral sciences have assumed that all human populations have equal abilities to achieve equal levels of social development. We need to accept the existence of the evolved diversity of human populations.
Sometimes it is claimed by those who argue that race is just a social construct that the human genome project shows that because people share 99% of their ââ¬Ågenesââ¬Â in common, that there are no races. This is silly. Human genes are 98% similar to chimpanzee genes. Yet no one thinks that chimpanzees have the same intelligence, brain size, or social behavior patterns as human beings; they look and behave very differently. In fact humans share 90% of their genes with mice, which is why we can use them to test drug therapies. Similarly, although men and women are genetically 99% the same, it is foolish to believe that sex is just a ââ¬Åsocial construction.ââ¬Â
Much confusion arises because there are several sets of genetic measures. A much more realistic story comes from looking at the 3.1 billion base pairs that make up the 30,000 genes. People differ in 1 out of every 1,000 of these base pairs. Each change in a base pair can alter a gene. Technically, base pair differences are called single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). Base pair differences are important and SNPs clump together in races. Just one change in the base pair for hemoglobin, for example, causes sickle-cell anemia, from which many Blacks suffer. Other base pair differences affect IQ, aggression, and mental illness. The 3.1 billion base pairs provide plenty of room for large racial differences.
In summary, the same racial pattern would not occur so consistently all around the world and over time if race were a mere social construct. If it were a meaningless construct, it would have no power to predict phenomena like brain size, growth rate, life span, crime, and family stability. Other evidence also shows that race is a biological reality. For example, coroners in crime labs can identify race from a skeleton or even just the skull. They can even identify race from blood, hair, or semen. How could they do this if race was only a social construct? The scientific evidence shows that the politically correct mantra ââ¬Årace is just skin deepââ¬Â is a case of deep denial. "
[url=http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no1/jpr-taxonomic.html]http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no1/...-taxonomic.html[/url]
weisbrot
2003-08-06 19:20 | User Profile
> Apparently the root of your ideology is found in the discredited rot dished up by Jewish Freudians.**
Not at all - I'm no fan of Freud. & Adams is no Jewish surname. Freud held that "heterosexual intercourse should be the goal of psychosexual development (a position that has since been questioned by feminists and queer theorists)"[1] so your statement is truly bizarre. Next time around, make sure you know at least a little about a topic before offering your POV about it. **
I find your inference that Freud did not consider anti-homosexual opinions to be "evidence" of latent homosexuality to be profoundly dishonest. But your citation of "queer theorist" opinion is much appreciated and quite revealing as an insight into your character.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/ Many heterosexuals repress homosexual tendencies, Sigmund Freud believed, and some repress them more strongly than others. Homophobia is the name for what Freud saw as heterosexuals' "vigorous counter-attitudes" to homosexuality. For most of this century, many writers on the topic, following Freud, have accepted this relationship between repressed (or "latent") homosexuality and homophobia.
I had no intention of "discrediting" anyone as a "homosexual." I was only pointing out that homophobia is a result of repressed homosexual desires & citing evidence in support of that statement.
This is also dishonest. Your statement referred to your assumption of that individual's "own homosexual desires", and included a quotation from Leviticus- and nothing else.
I also noted that homophobic ideology is rooted in the Jewish Torah - a statement you failed to dispute, let alone challenge.
I don't recognize the term "homophobia" as having any real meaning. Your statement is therefore, to me, a non sequitur.
The "alternate" explanation (offered only so the study could be published)...
Is there a citation for this assertion?
Where does this anxiety stem from, if not fear of their own homosexuality?
Only one living a perverse lifestyle would find normal reactions to perversion to be evidence of...more perversion.
friedrich braun
2003-08-06 19:45 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 13:09 * ** > Raina: like I've said on many previous occasions: you're a dishonest, lying and perverted troll.*
The above, boys & girls, is what Friedrich Braun considers a civilized style of discussion.
& he wonders why all intelligent people (myself included) simply ignore his "arguments." **
I call a spade a spade.
You never address facts when they condradict your p.c. fantasies.
Did you offer any commentary on the article I've posted? No. Why not? Because you really have no clue.
You offer nothing to this forum besides your "races don't exist" mantra.
No amount of evidence will ever change your mind. So far you've never offered a rebuttal to any of my points. I've cleary showed on numerous occasions that you were lying and being dishonest (remember the time when you said that Nordics had "a lot of Asiatic blood"? That was complete bull***. I responded with a link to a scientific article on the genetic make-up of Norwegians. Did you read it? "Polako" further elaborated on the utter fallacy of that assertion.)
You're wasting everyone's time.
Thanks for trolling.
jamestown
2003-08-06 21:22 | User Profile
**Do you agree with triskelion's support for the repression of "perversion"? I remind you that the regulation of consensual sexual activity is a hallmark of all totalitarian states. **
Ok, do you think that the ban on polygamy as was practiced in Utah by the Mormons should be abolished. Is it not a civil rights infringement that multi partner relationships are made illegal in the US. I just wonder how the same people who accept homosexual relationships are opposed to the practice of polygamy as is commonplace in islamic societies. Not do get me wrong, I personally do not care about homosexuals as long as they are denied custody of children, although that might be the next right they claim, and that makes me finally an enemy of that community. But to get back to the fundamental question, isnt't every society in the world using social repression in order to ban certain sexual practices?
friedrich braun
2003-08-06 21:37 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 13:49 * ** 1. I'm not PC. 2. I do believe in race - just not in the mythical ones preached by WNs or NSs. 3. If I'm a waste of everyone's time, why have so many voted that I stay?
I do know that you're a waste of my time, Friedrich. Until you stop calling me things I'm not (like troll, liar, or moron) your cut-&-paste flood of material will be ignored. **
Let's hear about those mythical races. Which ones are mythical and which ones aren't?
Not long ago you refused to acknowledge any racial differences at all; are we making progress? :o
You voted "by mistake" for you to leave? :D Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
With the number of people who want to see you gone, I wouldn't be to proud of the result...
Thanks for trolling.
Walter E Kurtz
2003-08-06 21:50 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 09:22 * ** > We are dealing with a group of people (militant homosexuals) who identify themselves politically/socially in terms of bizarre sexual behaviors that they choose to indulge in.*
Most people who oppose laws against consensual sex are not "militant homosexuals." I don't identify as "homosexual" - I'm just honest about my attraction for both males & females. & many people, regardless of how they identify, agree that the government has no place regulating consensual sexual behavior. One would think you'd agree, as you claim to be so opposed to government tyranny.
The very fact that such people have secured advocates in the highest levels of government is cause for concern.
No, it just shows that a few people actually care about individual freedom.
Is it really any wonder that the Western World is collapsing when the issue of the day is whether or not men who sodomize one another are worthy of government issued entitlements?
That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not the government should have the right to regulate our sex lives. I say no. What do you say, Walter? **
Whether or not you choose to acklowedge it...private sexual conduct has public consequences. The institutionalization of homosexuality is having a grave effect upon the social foundation of Western culture.
Additionally, laws pertaining to consensual sexual conduct are matters for state legislatures. The statutes of any given state will reflect the values of local populations. This is what WAS the great thing about the Old Republic...people actually had a voice in their communities, and there were legislative remedies available to change the laws if they no longer reflected the popular consensus of the constituents.
Nowadays, states' rights have been destroyed, state level legislatures have become impotent, and a majority of the 9 tyrants have decided that persons have a Constitutional "right" to insert their genitals in other peoples' rectums. Explain to me how this is a positive development.
triskelion
2003-08-07 01:22 | User Profile
First a quick comment for Walter Kurtz whose insights are often valued by me. You should note that Raina is a globalist with nothing but open hatred and contempt for the cause of Occidental preservation and as such your comments to her are immaterial as she most certainly does not share your values and will not consider your perspective if had the wherewithal to do so.
Raina's gross ignorance of Europa's indigenous religions is flagrantly displayed when she claims that the indigenous faiths of Europa had no objection the degeneracy she proudly proclaims in a fashion similar to those condemnations found in the Christian Old Testament. One can also recall that PS, Braun and several of Slavic posters here made their objections to the public promotion of homosexuality very clear in past exchanges with Raina, which she deleted, without recourse to anything remotely jewish or deference to Christianity. Of course, Christianity as a whole for well over a millennia has become rather distant from Jewry until the last 100 years or so and it's major theologians (all European) strongly object to homosexuality for reasons having nothing to do with the Torah. I could point to the fact that Adam of Bremen wrote about ritual executions of those betrayed marriage vows and sexual deviants at the Heathen temple at Uppsala (I'll give you the reference if you like but it's not in English). Not being a Christian I will let those that hold that faith detail it's distinction from Jewry as Raina clearly thinks it is a mere variant upon that odious faith.
Also, Anne Ross's excellent "Pagan Celtic Britain" describes those matters in detail in her description of votive well sacrificial practices and the Celtic poems/myths that recount such matters in relation to the Urnfield, Hallstatt, La Tene and later Celtic civilizations . Our debased troll could also read the following works by my ancestors and discover that they were very repressive of sexual deviancy of any form with the usual punishment being death outright or death via exile: Soga Friðrik The Seiðr Paradigms à âra Linda Bok, Midhvingas, Fjölnismenn, Føroyskt Antologi all give examples of Heathen opposition to sexual decadence. The ancient legal codes of the Kymry and the Molmutine Laws provide for similar prescriptions for those that practice such things and those advance similar belief systems now like the good people at the Nordishce Zeitung advocate less brutal means of dealing with libertines. I have been told that the Hindus were opposed to such things so perhaps your fellow, but more amusing, troll Rban could delve into the matter.
Naturally, the mystical belief system known as Radical Traditionalism (the most notable recent figure in the school being Julius Evola) is vehemently opposed to any form of sexual deviance as a force of spiritual destruction. Where you willing to spend a couple of hours reading Bill White (an Evolian disciple) over at overthrow you would learn much on the matter. After proving she has read up on the matter, something she lacks the interest or ability to do I am sure, I would be happy to trounce any attempt she should would make to misrepresent pre-Christian Nordic sexual mores or those advanced by Radical Traditionalists of the Evolian mode.
With respect to my agreement with societal oppression of her kind I should be a bit more specific. As I am basically anti-statist I fell that more harm is done by having some vast domestic espionage service looking to see who does what in private so I would not support an effort to actively eradicate those that attempt to keep their vices private. What I would support the healthy impulse to active stigmatize sexual degeneracy of any form by society rather then by the state at large. I would however like to see a return to of the sort of legal prohibitions on libertine degeneracy that one found everywhere in the Occidental world prior to the last world war as a means of suppressing pornography and the public promotion of your campaign to destroy the cultures of the Occident.
As I am not heavily inspired by the Third Reich in terms of modern politics I can say that Roehm has never entered my thoughts in any significant fashion and I not particularly interested in him. As he was however a Bolshevik actively seeking to overthrow the leadership of a movement he swore an oath of loyalty to I fully support the purge that destroyed him as justified. I have no idea if he was a pervert but the matter has no bearing on my thoughts on anything in any case and he has little interest for me.
It is fully expected that when Raina rarely does attempt to cite someone other then her self she does so dishonestly. Weisbrot correctly pointed out that the sole study she referenced on the rejection of homosexuality as being an act of repressed homosexuality was a conclusion rather different then the summation she gave of the study in question. Leveler correctly pointed out that a single study of supposed whites in Brazil with large percentages of non white ancestry in no way supported her fantasy that whites don't exist as a race. Instead of noting the obvious Raina misrepresented that study as support for her patently baseless and absurd views on race in a grossly dishonest fashion and failed to concede a clear example of her being refuted . I also note that the long established pattern of Braun demolishing her counter factual assertions was totally ignored. Also ignored was his brief but correct over view of racial differences indicating that at best Raina lacks the knowledge and reading comprehension skills needed to address matters more exacting in scope then her penchant for perversion. If she was inclined to actually learn something about the realities of race she could pick up a copy of Race, Evolution and Behavior: A Life History Perspective by J.P. Rushton for a trivial cost at amazon and gain access to a vast wealth of information about the differences between the genetically highly similar branches of humanity that we casually refer to as race. An understanding of the societal effects of inter-racial conflict and demographics is quickly but decently handled by Prof. Pendell's Why Civilizations Self Destruct which can be gotten from the very fine American company Noon Tide Press. Of course we all know she lacks the moral and intellectual fortitude to actively challenge her insane dogma but perhaps someone else with a bit more interest in the crucial matters confronting our declining peoples will be so inclined.
Roy Batty
2003-08-07 01:39 | User Profile
Wow, this thing is really getting off the track. But interesting.
You can bet if a horde of fags attacked, say, some parading Amish, it wouldn't make mention on the evening news.
Homosexuals are never able to understand how very unnatural their behavior, their desires, appear to NORMAL people. That's because their perversions seem so normal to THEM. Procreation is impossible between people of the same sex. End of argument. They are aberrant. Abnormal. That they live to an average age of 42 in the US says a lot. AIDS, astronomical rates of hepatitis, GBS (gay bowel syndrome), sky high syphillis rates among the flits, etc. are all examples of nature taking its course when people choose to engage in abnormal and very unhealthy behavior.
Yeah, fruits are normal. Take a look at their romps during "Gay Days" at Disneyworld. No wonder most of them die young.
weisbrot
2003-08-07 01:56 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 15:41 * ** If "homophobic" isn't a good term for some of the attitudes expressed here (such as "gays" should be subjected to mass torture &/or murder), then what the hell is*?
**
How about "A Good Start"?
Paleoleftist
2003-08-07 02:02 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 5 2003, 23:13 * ** "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
(There are no comparable "Aryan"/pagan writings condemning same-sex attraction or behavior) **
Errr, the ancient Germans drowned them, I think.
And that even the Jews agree that perversion is perverse is not an argument in your favour.
Now I wouldnôt go so far as some in this thread: As long as private behaviour stays truly private, I could live with a "donôt ask, donôt tell" policy on such matters.
But advertising homosexuality should be out of the question, and definitely lead to an educational holiday in prison.
Paleoleftist
2003-08-07 02:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 13:41 * ** Freud held* anti-homosexual opinions, including the belief that heterosexuality is the only "natural" orientation. **
This is not an opinion, itôs the truth. The species would have died out otherwise.
Freud is entitled to be occasionally right on something.
Paleoleftist
2003-08-07 02:25 | User Profile
*Originally posted by jamestown@Aug 6 2003, 15:22 * ** I just wonder how the same people who accept homosexual relationships are opposed to the practice of polygamy as is commonplace in islamic societies. **
I see your logic.
I also get your irony :) , so, just for the record: Polygamy is of course immoral as well. Chief reason being that, for all practical purposes, it makes women a commodity. Which is not only bad for the women individually, but also for society: The commodity would likely be very unequally distributed. Christianity has it right, again: Strict monogamy is not only the best solution for child-rearing, but also for a fair "distribution" of sexual "goods", from the viewpoint of the social economist. :D
triskelion
2003-08-07 02:38 | User Profile
The last point by PL was quite good. I will however hasten to add that folkish Heathens, rather then Wiccan freaks and new age hippies, are the same in terms of sexual mores. As far as I am concerned the value of an ethic comes from it's ability to enhance societal stability and promote a recognition that which makes a folk have a common sense of uniqueness, value and historical mission of preservation is good. That which undermines societal cohesion so described is evil.
Drakmal
2003-08-07 04:02 | User Profile
Following up on my promise in the "disruptive or no" thread...
**The above, boys & girls, is what Friedrich Braun considers a civilized style of discussion.
& he wonders why all intelligent people (myself included) simply ignore his "arguments."**
And just like I asserted, you completely ignored a factual argument because you were personally offended at some purely offhand comments made along with them. An honest debater would have addressed the facts presented, regardless of whether or not there was an insult in the margins.
Small wonder you freaks are ostracized by normal people. It's not "the Jews" (with most of whom you have much in common) but rather your mindless bigotry that makes you nuts unpopular.
Gratuitous abuse. Weisbrot didn't attack you; he made a dry-wit reply to your 'homophobe'-baiting fantasy of gays being rounded up and gassed.
I've heard very little serious suggestion on this board that gays should be killed (better to let nature do the work :P), and I've never heard anyone say, jokingly or serious, that gays--or anyone else--should be tortured.
Leveller
2003-08-07 04:24 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina+Aug 6 2003, 18:34 -->
QUOTE* (Raina @ Aug 6 2003, 18:34 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Leveller@Aug 6 2003, 11:12 * ** The study found admixture between ethnic groups - in Brazil! ** Just as other studies have found the same in Amerika & anywhere else.**
The point is, you tried to pass it off as something it wasn't.
"First of all, let me stress that the conclusions of this study apply to Brazil, and should not be naively extrapolated to other countries," Dr. Sergio D. J. Pena, the study's lead author, told Reuters Health in an interview. [url=http://www.laurushealth.com/HealthNews/reuters/NewsStory121620029.htm][laurashealth.com][/url]
As for the essentialist fallacy that "race doesn't exist", whatever. Since you don't hold a single opinion not ordained by PC, including the definition of those who don't agree with you as having mental problems, trying to turn the light on is futile.
Drakmal
2003-08-07 04:27 | User Profile
Weisbrot wrote that torture & murder of gays would be "a good start." Perhaps you've missed a good part of this thread. For that matter, you must not read much of this forum - suggestions that gays should be tortured & murdered are commonplace here.
For someone who admonishes people for supposedly not reading very closely or often enough, you certainly don't read very comprehensively yourself. Let me highlight the part where I addressed that:
Gratuitous abuse. Weisbrot didn't attack you; he made a dry-wit reply to your 'homophobe'-baiting fantasy of gays being rounded up and gassed.
Did you take that seriously, or are you smarter than you seem?
Also, what I returned for:
> The study found admixture between ethnic groups - in Brazil!**
Just as other studies have found the same in Amerika & anywhere else.**
Please produce one study that shows that white people in white nations (anywhere in brown South America does not count) are anywhere close to 33% Amerindian and 28% African. And link to it, as penance for your previous dishonesty in this thread.
Walter E Kurtz
2003-08-07 04:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 21:40 * ** > Whether or not you choose to acklowedge it...private sexual conduct has public consequences.*
So does private political conduct. Your ravings against "homos" at home might inspire violent crime elsewhere. Yet I fully support your freedom to spout these (IMO) poisonous views. That's because I support freedom. Too bad you don't.
The institutionalization of homosexuality is having a grave effect upon the social foundation of Western culture.
The foundation of "Western culture" was built by people who practiced homosexuality.
Additionally, laws pertaining to consensual sexual conduct are matters for state legislatures.ÃÂ The statutes of any given state will reflect the values of local populations.ÃÂ This is what WAS the great thing about the Old Republic...people actually had a voice in their communities, and there were legislative remedies available to change the laws if they no longer reflected the popular consensus of the constituents.
So what will you do if some of those state legislatures overturn all laws against consensual sexual activity?
Nowadays, states' rights have been destroyed, state level legislatures have become impotent, and a majority of the 9 tyrants have decided that persons have a Constitutional "right" to insert their genitals in other peoples' rectums.ÃÂ Explain to me how this is a positive development.
It's a small step in the right direction - toward full realization of the individual freedom that Amerika was founded upon.
Many exclusive behavioral heterosexuals practice both oral & anal sex. Do you believe this should also be outlawed? If not, why are those practices suddenly evil if done between members of the same sex?
Do you believe that sex toys should be outlawed? How about masturbation? Why not ban both? Neither lead to reproduction....
Where will it end? **
I don't "rave against homos"...I don't care enough about them to engage in such behavior.
Western Culture is not merely the linear continuation of ancient Greece (which I assume is what you are referring to.) Immerse yourself in some Spengler and Yockey...educate yourself about the Organic (as opposed to linear) view of history.
If the state legislature of every state in the Union was interested in advancing the homosexualist agenda...I would say that we are in trouble. However, this did not happen. What did happen is a tryannical Supreme Court decided once again to undermine the legislative process and discover brand new "constitutional rights".
Its not up to me as to what sex laws should stay and which ones should be abolished. The way a Constitutional Republic is supposed to function is as follows:
Communitites that are populated by people who approve of homosexual conduct are welcome to petition their state legislature to take measures to guarantee the "freedom" of persons to engage in sodomy. States that are populated by Traditionalists can petition their state legislature to take measures to outlaw certain types of conduct.
Unfortunately, since the advent of ZOG, the legislative process has been dismantled entirely. The ZOG machine has contempt for common people and does not feel that they should be permitted to effect legislation within their own communities. Hence, the tyrannical 9 have been granted the power to create and impose National Law by diktat. This is unacceptable, Raina.
Leveller
2003-08-07 04:48 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Drakmal@Aug 7 2003, 04:27 * ** ... Please produce one study that shows that white people in white nations (anywhere in brown South America does not count) are anywhere close to 33% Amerindian and 28% African. And link to it, as penance for your previous dishonesty in this thread. **
...or explain how scientists manage to work out what an 'Amerindian' or 'African' is. :blink:
N.B. Forrest
2003-08-07 07:37 | User Profile
*Soon the pushy Sodomite bastards are going to be smashed, and what a joy it will be. *
Kill every last "queer" & you still wouldn't be rid of your own homosexual desires. & that's the root of your animosity.....
Ah yes, the show-stopping Latent Homo Accusation - nearly as old 'n' crusty as your leather panties. I know I'm supposed to go into a red-faced cringe and slink away now that you've "exposed" me, but hey, I don't think I will after all.
Listen very carefully, k.d. : My schlong doesn't rise when I see a couple of Sodomites bobbing for turds; my lunch does. Why? Because an older "friend" tried to get me to give him a blowjob on a couple of occasions when I was about 7 years old. This I refused to do - not because I was "brainwashed" at that tender age by "jewish lies", but because I just knew deep down inside that it was unnatural filth.
So you see, bitch, I have ample reason for hating scum like you. I know from first-hand experience what opportunistic child predators you are.
Still, since I'm such an easygoing fella, I'm generously prepared to allow you vermin to continue to breathe - the stale air of the Closet.
weisbrot
2003-08-07 12:32 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 7 2003, 00:05 * ** Weisbrot wrote... **
Nope, Weisbrot didn't write that.
I did hint that perversity breeds more of the same, and missed the opportunity to note that muddled thinking, global hostility and abject dishonesty often seem to be part of that package.
Raina has yet to give a citation for her assertion that the likely finding for the "homophobe" study was appended only to allow for publication. It would be interesting to find if the source for this knowledge is similar to the source for the other assertions Raina has made on this thread. In other words, ad hoc garbage fashioned for maximum disruptive effect rather than for the purpose of debate.
na Gaeil is gile
2003-08-07 16:08 | User Profile
Right. So let's see you refute the facts that I posted.
In the very rare, possibly accidental, instances where you post an actual fact I don't refute it. Facts are irrefutable, irrefutability is the essence of fact.
(& I'm no liberal. Get your labels straight - no pun intended.)
Are you in denial? Would you prefer the label 'libertine'? The fact is your posts are so full of :dung: and your self chosen labels(human nationalist?!) so risible that to call you a liberal is an act of restrained politeness. Your topic range is about as wide as me-wanna-bang-an-asian-ares and Tom-I-hate-skinheads-Rennick, a sure sign of a troll.
The study, by Henry F. Adams et al in the August 1996 Journal of Abnormal Psychology[emphasis mine], found that the most-homophobic men were those who, though not openly gay themselves, nonetheless had the strongest homosexual urges, as measured by their penile circumference when being exposed to homosexual films. ... What this suggests is that if one happens to be bigoted against a particular group (in this case, gays), then that bigotry is intensified by one's belief that one is or might be oneself a member of that group." (Zuesse, 2000)
Fascinating garbage, not only does the study admit it's open bias, and thus total lack of objectivity, but the actual testing process is so beyond farcical that Noel Coward himself would have rejected it as comedic material. "Hello sir would you mind watching gay porn while we measure the width of your trouser snake?", perhaps the significance of the title Journal of Abnormal Psychology has more to do with the 'scientific' contributors than the subject matter.
Tell us again about how I don't back up my assertions.
Ok - Raina you don't back up your assertions or attempt to engage in any meaningful debate, as in the actual assertion I was challenging you to back up below.
There are no comparable "Aryan"/pagan writings condemning same-sex attraction or behavior
Such a patently false and unsupported statement is the spoor of Trollus vulgaris
** **"there's only one race - the human race", cornier than Iowa but substantially less wholesome. **
Unfortunately for you, it's also established fact.
"There is wide agreement among anthropologists and human geneticists that, from a biological standpoint, human races do not exist," Sergio Pena & colleagues at the Universidade Federal de Minas Gerias in Brazil & the University of Porto in Portugal wrote in their report published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
"Yet races do exist as social constructs," they said.
"To their surprise, they found maternal DNA suggested that even the "white" people had, on average, 33 percent of genes that were of Amerindian ancestry and 28 percent African." **
This has being dealt with again and again and again and again and still you're peddling the same bull. No matter how much data the regulars here offer you're still peddling the same bull. Despite your (faux) anti-Semitism youââ¬â¢re more than happy to reproduce such Boasian propaganda in an effort to peddle the same bull. Youââ¬â¢re a Jew dung peddler.
The life cycle of Trollus vulgaris raina:
- The larval troll hatches in a normal thread with the introduction of a bald and patently false statement.
- The thread, or host organism, reacts to the noxious irritant with counter evidence refuting said statement.
- Displaying a highly evolved resistance to reality Trollus vulgaris completely ignores any counter arguments.
- Bloated on its own false sense of relevance the parasite now enters the pupa stage by introducing tangential and dubious arguments inducing in the host repeated occurrences of reaction 2.
- Trollus vulgaris, having poisoned the thread beyond any hope of ever restoring relevance, emergences from its cocoon of self-delusion seeking new hosts.
Paleoleftist
2003-08-07 16:29 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 20:36 * ** Instead, it gives total freedom of choice to both sexes. **
Cut the "instead". Total Freedom of Choice is the very definition of immorality.
The guaranteed Political Rights of sane, adult Free Citizens of a Republic do most assuredly not include Total Freedom of Choice. Not remotely.
Paleoleftist
2003-08-07 16:37 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Raina@Aug 6 2003, 21:31 * ** I'm in a close relationship with one male & two females. In no sense am I "commodified" or "exploited" by this arrangement. **
You arenôt, but perhaps your partners are.
Your argumentation DOES remind me of Zionism. "If itôs Good for The Jews, it canôt be Evil, as such. If itôs Bad for The Jews, it canôt be Good, as such." :rolleyes: