← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · godlesscapitalist
Thread ID: 8601 | Posts: 41 | Started: 2003-07-31
2003-07-31 00:02 | User Profile
The Nazi quotient is too high here. I'm not interested in arguing with people like that. Those who want a debate free of rancor can come to www.gnxp.com. This place :hit: :hit: isn't my style...
2003-07-31 01:10 | User Profile
All countries have their ups and downs. There is no stopping Russia as long as they have more children. The same can be said about the rest of the white world. And as far as solving the illegal immigration problem, Russians may still have the guts and common sense to use deportation as a control measure. I am not as optimistic about what's going to happen to, say, California.
2003-07-31 01:19 | User Profile
**All countries have their ups and downs. There is no stopping Russia as long as they have more children. The same can be said about the rest of the white world. And as far as solving the illegal immigration problem, Russians may still have the guts and common sense to use deportation as a control measure. I am not as optimistic about what's going to happen to, say, California. **
I agree Madrussian. Another way I believe that can help solve Russia's problem is if large numbers of the diaspora return home. I'm not just talking about the Russian population in say Kazahkstan, Im also talking about the Russian diaspora in North/South America and Western Europe.
2003-07-31 05:37 | User Profile
I don't think anyone expects Soviet Jews to return to Russia. They aren't even considered Russian diaspora, and are called "Russian" only when Russian mafia is mentioned. The reason why there are so many Jews in the US is because to qualify for immigration they only needed to be Jewish (courtesy of their tribal brethren in the US, all paid for by the American taxpayer), while others had only merit-based ways to immigrate, like being students or professionals. I don't think Russia even needs Jews who emigrated as "refugees" -- the share of professionals among those is low. American stereotypes of Russians are based on what they observed among the Soviet Jews.
As for people returning back to Russia, these do exist, but their number is relatively small. There are employment opportunities back there too, that would allow one to live relatively comfortable life. As the job market globalizes and the domestic business grows, there will be less and less incentive for people to emigrate.
2003-07-31 05:58 | User Profile
I'm fully aware godlesscapitalist that most immigrants from Russia are Jews. But not all them were. If you really want to debate me on this, you can try proving to me that my Great-grandfather and great grandmother were not really Russians and did not come to America during the early 1920's. My great-grandpa fought in the White Armies and then emigrated to America. So I'm pretty much a 4th generation Russian/Ukrainian-American.
In fact there's an organization called [url=http://www.rusglobus.net/]RusGlobe[/url] that is intended for communications between Russian disapora and the motherland.
**As for people returning back to Russia, these do exist, but their number is relatively small. There are employment opportunities back there too, that would allow one to live relatively comfortable life. As the job market globalizes and the domestic business grows, there will be less and less incentive for people to emigrate. **
Well this is good for me to hear, since I'm planning on doing business involving Russia. :D
I do sincerly hope and believe that Mother Russia will rise again. If you look at her history, Russia has risen before in times of crisis only to become stronger than ever. This maybe just a strong sentimental feeling I have towards my anscetral motherland(which I love dearly), but hope is all I have to believe in. I'm not a blind optimist, I just have to have hope for something.
This article from Pravda expresses pretty much many of my hopes for Russia in the future.
[url=http://english.pravda.ru/letters/2002/06/04/29646_.html]http://english.pravda.ru/letters/2002/06/0.../04/29646_.html[/url] which concludes with this:
**For those few that don't believe in Social Sciences or political analysis, I can point to other sources with similar results. The reading of the prophecies of St. Seraphim of Sarov and those of St.Hildegard of Bingen, Blessed Rabanus Megentius Maurus, St. Caesarius of Arles and St. Francisco de Paola concerning the "Great Monarch" will be very interesting for those that have little faith in political and social sciences. ÃÂ **
I also very much like this quote
** "I foresee the re-establishment of a mighty Russia -- one yet stronger and more powerful [than she is today]. Remember that it is upon the bones of martyrs just such as these that a new Rus' will be erected, as on a firm foundation; and yet, she will be fashioned after the old model and firm in her faith in Christ [our] God, and in the Holy Trinity! And the Church will be as one, in accordance with the testament of Prince St. Vladimir! The Russian people have ceased to understand just what Rus' is: she is the foot-stool of the Lord's Throne! The Russian must realize this and thank God for the fact that he is a Russian."
Holy and Righteous Ioann of Kronstadt**
[img]http://www.higher-standard-flags.com/images/Russimpr.jpg[/img] SLAVA ROSSIYA!
2003-07-31 09:46 | User Profile
Godless, If IQ is your criteria for immigration into the US, why use a possibly poor proxy such as mean IQ of country of origin (especially since immigrants might not be a representative sample) instead of measuring it directly, or at least use a better proxy such as acknowledged qualifications, and scrapping the racial part? (i'm not suggesting this is a good idea, just that it seems to suit your purposes better).
2003-07-31 10:04 | User Profile
Walter Yannis needs to chip in here: [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=8740&st=120&hl=berezovsky]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...0&hl=berezovsky[/url]
** Watch the news in Russia. The (overwhelmingly Jewish) Oligarchs who took power in the 1990's are slowly being squeezed out by the Russian Putin. He's exiled Berezovsky and Gusinsky, pushed Abramovich to seek political immunity as governor of Chukhotka (bordering Alaska!), and this past week now has Khodorkovsky himself under investigation. The Moscow Times had a recent op-ed piece on Putin's political appointments, and was shocked - shocked! - that they seem to be drawn exclusively from the ranks of the "military." That's a codeword for "Russian," to be sure. Putin also installed Alexei Miller, a Russian of German ancestry and old ally for St. Petersberg, as CEO of the all-important Gazprom (guesstimated assets of $600-$900 billion, depending on the market price of natural gas), as a goodwill gesture to Gazprom's German Ruhrgas interests. He also installed Boris Jordan, the American scoin of Royalist Russian "White" emigres to head Media-Most after Gusinsky's ouster (he's since been replaced). Both of those moves were meant to be symbolic, that's obvious to me. Nobody talks about it, but the message is unmistakable.**
2003-07-31 17:11 | User Profile
Richard Perle is a busy bee:
By Kim Murphy, Los Angeles Times, July 23, 2003 "When key Washington policy advisor Richard Perle** sat down this week for a meeting with leading Russian political analysts, he had an unsolicited word of advice: Lay off Yukos Oil Co., the Russian energy giant locked in a showdown with criminal prosecutors.
Many believe that the outcome of that battle could determine the future of big business and foreign investment in this nation's still-fledgling free-market economy. "It's possible already to say that real damage is being done to the prospects for future Russian economic growth and development by what appears to be an arbitrary, capricious and vindictive campaign against a private company," warned Perle, adding that "it will get very bad" if the Kremlin decides to move decisively against Yukos.
For nearly three weeks, Moscow has been politically shaken by the face-off between prosecutors and Russia's richest man, 40-year-old Mikhail Khodorkovsky, whose Yukos empire has been threatened by the arrest of a key shareholder, searches at company offices and announcements that prosecutors are examining company officials for suspected crimes from tax evasion to murder.
The fact that U.S. interests are quietly weighing in on Khodorkovsky's behalf - Perle emphasized that he was not speaking on behalf of the government, but U.S. Ambassador Alexander Vershbow clearly was when he said the affair "raises a number of questions for us" - is testament to Khodorkovsky's role as a powerful advocate for Western interests in a country still deeply troubled over issues such as U.S. policy in Iraq and the future of free-market capitalism within its own borders.**
2003-07-31 17:12 | User Profile
**I wish those stupid loser Russians COULD in fact get their house in order. Siberia and its rich resources going to China would be a disaster. I fully admit Chinese are superior to Eastern Europeans in terms of work ethic and capabilities....the problem is, their nature and abilities also makes them a threat. **
Oh yes we're just bunch of stupid lazy ass losers! Have you actually ever been to Russia, or are you just getting this information from American TV?
Nevermind we saved Europe's ass from Mongol domination. Nevermind we invented the laser. Nevermind we were the first in space. Nevermind we invented the periodic table. Nevermind we've produced some of the greatest literature, arts, and music the world has ever known!
Nevermind the facts, we're just a stupid lazy race just as good ol American tv saids we are. WE all know that American tv never lies, after all they supply us with snappy reality shows and sitcoms. Oh yes!
Maybe you should read Steven G. Marks's book [url=http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7346.html]How Russia Shaped the Modern World: From Art to Anti-Semitism, Ballet to Bolshevism[/url] before you start calling us stupid and lazy!
2003-07-31 17:20 | User Profile
perun: ignore churban. He's a very unintelligent/annoying troll; a self-described "Hindu supremacist" :lol: Such morons are not worthy of anyone's time spent typing, much less yours. I'll still poke a little fun at him, though ;)
2003-07-31 17:28 | User Profile
*Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Jul 30 2003, 18:02 * ** The difference between Chinese illegal immigration and Hispanic illegal immigration is that the Chinese are smart/hardworking enough to become employers within a generation. **
Whether or not the Chinese are intelligent and hardworking is not the issue in this case. What matters most is the fact that they are a racially and culturally alien population, attempting something that can only be described as an invasion of a land that does not belong to them. Their high IQ no more justifies this infringement upon Russia's territorial sovereignty than the high IQ of Jews justified their slaughter of millions of Russians, Ukrainians and Balts.
Furthermore, I think you're oversimplifying the issue of East Asian immigration in much the same way that Ares does, i.e. "if the average IQ of the ethnicity is high, than immigration of members of that ethnicity is by default beneficial." There are many selective factors influencing which Chinese immigrate (illegally, of course) into Russia, and which stay home. The Far East has extremely lucrative prospects for organized crime, and this seems to be, to a great degree, the kind of Chinese immigration that the area is currently attracting. Even the infamous "Russian mafia" has disappeared from the area, unable to compete with the ruthless Chinese triads. There is loads of material available on the subject of Chinese organized crime in Russia; unfortunately most of it is in Russian.
2003-07-31 17:36 | User Profile
Hey chruban, if Slavs are so stupid (find me a Slavic country with an average IQ that resembles India's, LOL), then why are superior Aryan Hindus immigrating (illegally) to Slavic countries, such as the Ukraine, in droves?
**Shepetovka, UKRAINE. On 4 June, 25 illegal immigrants from India were placed in quarantine at Shepetovka District Militia Department. They are being tested for SARS virus they may possibly carry.
Traffic militia officials discovered the immigrants near Lenkovtsy village in Khmelnitskiy Region. They were hiding in the back of KamAZ lorry in flour sacks. The Indians had no documents. KamAZ driver admitted that he was transporting them for a fee from Kiev to the town of Moukachevo in Zakarpatskaya Region, from where they intended to get into Hungary. While sitting in the flour sacks, the immigrants breathed in the flour dust and are now suffering from pain in their lungs and throats.
**
Tell the truth churban-did it hurt travelling in that sack? [img]http://www.prima-news.ru/upimg/m_24858.gif[/img]
:lol: :lol:
[url=http://www.prima-news.ru/eng/news/news/2003/6/9/24858.html]http://www.prima-news.ru/eng/news/news/200.../6/9/24858.html[/url]
2003-07-31 17:43 | User Profile
Oh, and I forgot - the superior Hindus were smuggled in flour sacks just to civilize the inferior Slavic barbarians, right churban? :lol: :lol: :lol:
2003-07-31 18:15 | User Profile
If anything, the "high IQ is the only criterium" crowd is easily identifiable and consistent in their insanity. Ares, godlesscapitalist and renny.
Just look at India and China, two of the most dirty overpopulated "high IQ" nations. Or Chinatown in an American city. "Empiricism" in all its glory. Whites don't want to go live in China or India. Sane people don't want the US to become sewers like those countries.
Case closed.
2003-07-31 18:17 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jul 31 2003, 10:43 * Oh, and I forgot - the superior Hindus were smuggled in flour sacks just to civilize the inferior Slavic barbarians, right churban? :lol: :lol: :lol:*
Do whites need Jews, Indians or Chinese for anything? Can Jews, Indians or Chinese survive without whites?
:dung:
2003-07-31 18:29 | User Profile
**Oh, and I forgot - the superior Hindus were smuggled in flour sacks just to civilize the inferior Slavic barbarians, right churban? **
Oh well I guess they can thank their elephant god and offer it some peanuts. :D
[img]http://www.bodyandsoulcenter.com/images/hinduism.jpg[/img]
"What? Please stop offering my god a peanut and get out of my taxi!" :lol:
2003-07-31 18:43 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jul 31 2003, 12:15 * *If anything, the "high IQ is the only criterium" crowd is easily identifiable and consistent in their insanity. Ares, godlesscapitalist and renny. **
IQ elitism has its benefits and its drawbacks. What I have a problem with is people using a population's mean IQ as the only criterion of its "acceptability". This premise, followed by a trail of extremely convoluted thinking allows Ares to reach the conclusion that he's still a "white nationalist", despite his ardent support for Europid/Mongoloid miscegenation. The fact is, nationalism, being a philosophical/ideological stance cannot be reduced to "empiricism" a la Ares, i.e. it cannot be factored through a "costs-benefits analysis." If being a nationalist depended solely on the possible benefits, nationalism wouldn't exist -we'd all be fweepahs instead. :P Bottom line: someone whose only concerns is IQ should not call himself a nationalist.
**Just look at India and China, two of the most dirty overpopulated "high IQ" nations. **
Actually, India isn't exactly a "high IQ" nation - its average IQ using several studies is 84 (when adjustments for the Flynn effect are removed), 6 points below the world average. Granted, there is a large difference in cognitive ability between the various castes, but the fact remains that most Indians are significantly less intelligent than Europeans, since the ultra-intelligent Brahmins compose only a small percentage of India's population.
2003-07-31 18:52 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jul 31 2003, 11:43 * The fact is, nationalism, being a philosophical/ideological stance cannot be reduced to "empiricism" a la Ares, i.e. it cannot be factored through a costs-benefits analysis. Someone whose only concerns is IQ should not call himself a nationalist.*
WTF is empiricism in their interpretation? In hard sciences, empirical theories are those that have many parameters to fit any measured data, and are regarded with contempt because they have no predictive power and are purely descriptive and give no insight. They are used when no real theory exists in the field. The simpletons that insist that they are "scientific" are just morons who don't realize their own stupidity and try to promote their speculation, sure of the superiority of their "ideas" :y
I disagree that nationalism can't be subjected to cost-benefit analysis. I just don't buy "their" cost-benefit analysis.
2003-07-31 20:19 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian+Jul 31 2003, 12:17 -->
QUOTE (madrussian @ Jul 31 2003, 12:17 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Prodigal Son@Jul 31 2003, 10:43 * Oh, and I forgot - the superior Hindus were smuggled in flour sacks just to civilize the inferior Slavic barbarians, right churban?ÃÂ :lol:ÃÂ :lol:ÃÂ :lol:* Do whites need Jews, Indians or Chinese for anything? Can Jews, Indians or Chinese survive without whites?
:dung: **
Someone smarter than me needs to take a look at this obsession that non-Whites and non-gentiles have with coming on to pro-White forums to try to convince us how much we need them. OD isn't the only place I've seen this. Is it because deep down they know that they're being used by the multi-nationals and Jewish pressure groups to sponge off of and destroy someone else's wealth and way of life, a standard of living that they are (racially?) incapable of creating on their own ? I can't imagine Whites going on to Chinese or Indian discussion boards and doing the same thing.
Eendracht Maakt Mag
2003-07-31 20:26 | User Profile
Originally posted by rban@Jul 31 2003, 14:18 * Well, the Chinese are sneaking into Russia and Indians sneaking into Ukraine to try to get at the oil and natural resources in those countries.*
Gee, churban, how much oil can you truck away in a flour sack? :huh: Remind me again how much oil there is in the Ukraine....
** This is because native Slavs are too dumb to effectively use the bounty Nature has given. **
Yeah, unlike those brilliant low-80s IQ Hindus. That's why India is the world's most prosperous nation, remember?
Perun: this talk about periodic tables etc etc is all fine & dandy, but the articles posted in this very forum show the Chinese kicking your butts.
How are they "kicking our buts" - by sneaking into sparsely populated territory across an overextended border? :huh:
** So what good is your periodic table invention and all that other crp when you can't even resist a bunch of raggedy slants on your eastern borders?*
A question so throughly idiotic that I won't even dignify it with one of my infinitely clever wisecracks :D .
Even though you are half Mongoloid, one would hope your Caucasian half would be good for something?
You'd think that the 1/3 Caucasoid ancestry you have (still haven't faced up to the fact that you're a tri-racial, ey?) would be good for something :D .
Eendracht Maakt Mag
2003-07-31 20:32 | User Profile
Originally posted by Recluse@Jul 31 2003, 14:19 * ** Someone smarter than me needs to take a look at this obsession that non-Whites and non-gentiles have with coming on to pro-White forums to try to convince us how much we need them. OD isn't the only place I've seen this. Is it because deep down they know that they're being used by the multi-nationals and Jewish pressure groups to sponge off of and destroy someone else's wealth and way of life, a standard of living that they are (racially?) incapable of creating on their own ? I can't imagine Whites going on to Chinese or Indian discussion boards and doing the same thing.*
I think its mostly because they feel extremely insecure, seeing the tangible growth of overt White Nationalism in America. For example, you should take a look at godlesscapitalists' rather long, and quite derrogatory tirade on WN. What it all boils down to of course, is the fear of a violent revolution (quite an unlikely prospect, in my opinion). The more intelligent non-whites, like godless, try to persuade us to accept an ideology that would leave them feeling far more comfortable and secure-in godless's case, IQ elitism. People with elite IQs can be found in every racial grouping, or one can even advocate encouraging immigration from high-IQ non-white groups as godless does. There is certainly a fair amount of memetic overlap between this mindset and the precepts of White Nationalism, but unlike WN, this would make accommodations for a select group of non-whites.
Godless- I am not flaming you or insulting you, this is just my assessment of your sentiments regarding White Nationalism.
Eendracht Maakt Mag
2003-07-31 20:43 | User Profile
To prove my point:
**godlesscapitalist wrote
The point: white racial consciousness will not work, because [color=red]it will cause bloody suffering & financial devastation for the American people.[/color] Remember that almost 700000 Americans died in the first Civil War...long before we had an Air Force, WMDs, modern artillery, etcetera. It took almost 40 years to truly rebuild the South. Can you imagine how long it would take to rebuild a radioactive and fractured "United" States without a Marshall Plan, with foreign powers picking at the corpse of what used to be the greatest nation on earth?
[color=red]So I say: no. You will not do this in my country. You're free to try moving to Iceland, or enacting immigration restriction in one of the mostly white countries in Eastern Europe. But America is my home. You will not forcibly expropriate my property, nor deport me from the land of my birth. I speak English with greater fluency than 99% of the semiliterates who post on Stormfront. I have more technical expertise than ten of them put together. What right have they to tell me I am not an American? None whatsoever. In the end, land has always been the property of those willing to fight for it, and America is no different. If you ever did fight... you would lose.[/color]**
The main issue is the sense of security. If I were a non-white, intelligent or otherwise, I would most certainly be concerned for my safety in a country with a strong incipient White Nationalist movement. Of course godless, being more intelligent than most recognizes the effect that racial differences have on society, and ultimately his personal well-being, and tries to suggest a compromise that would satisfy both his desire for personal safety and his elitist ideology. Of course, this is just my own assessment and if godless disagrees, he can voice his objections here.
madrussian
2003-07-31 22:57 | User Profile
Tapeworms are "hard working" too, and live in conditions no human being would tolerate.
Hilaire Belloc
2003-07-31 23:07 | User Profile
Rban, you sure are one big ass durak! I'm not even going to waste my intellectual talents replying to such primitive rubbish!
Russia has faced greater crisises before. But obviously you don't give a rats ass about history cause you're too stupid to understand its lessons!
Need we forget the dropping birth-rates and rising illegal immigration that happened in Weimar Germany, yet in 1933 they began a march towards revival and greatness under Hitler.
Oh and about us not using the bounty nature gave us, Russia's profits from oil and natural gas is rising due to increased trade with many countries, especially England. Even the US, UK, and Spain are competiting for trade contracts with Russia. So get your facts straight or is your brain not capable of that?
BTW, nice reply Prodigal Son! :lol:
Leveller
2003-08-01 01:50 | User Profile
*Originally posted by perun1201@Jul 31 2003, 23:07 * ** ...
Need we forget the dropping birth-rates and rising illegal immigration that happened in Weimar Germany, yet in 1933 they began a march towards revival and greatness under Hitler.
Oh and about us not using the bounty nature gave us, Russia's profits from oil and natural gas is rising due to increased trade with many countries, especially England. Even the US, UK, and Spain are competiting for trade contracts with Russia. So get your facts straight or is your brain not capable of that? **
perun, I read today that Berezovsky has just lost his appeal against extradition from the UK, which coincided with a high level trade mission from Russia!
The most pessimistic predictions about Russia are simple arguments by extrapolation, which is never a good idea.
Leveller
2003-08-01 03:36 | User Profile
Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Jul 31 2003, 10:40 * *... Actually, that's what I'm in favor of. I want a skilled immigration system along the lines of Canada, except without "amnesty" exceptions and with tight Mexican border control. Let me explain the reference to race:
1) A skilled immigration policy would be a ** massive ** improvement over waves of Hispanic immigration.
2) However...a skilled immigration policy would be a ** not-so-massive ** improvement over waves of East Asian, upper caste Indian, or European immigration.
In other words, I wouldn't be concerned about the downfall of the United States in the second scenario, because I'd be confident in their abilities to build and sustain a technological civilization.
Also, the advantage of a skilled immigration system is that it's much easier to sell on non-racial grounds. I guarantee that I could get Chinese and Indian spokesmen for a hypothetical immigration reform organization that focused on reforming the system to allow only skilled immigrants. That would deflect a lot of "anti-racist" criticism.
Hmmm. That's not a bad idea.**
Godless, I agree with both points 1 and 2 (except for the 'massive' part). ;)
I'm not convinced that pretending there is no white group interest in restricting immigration, rather than asserting that there is, is a winning proposition. (Of course neither has worked so far:().
As well as pretending there is no general white interest in immigration restriction, we have to pretend that latino lobbies aren't fighting to increase their demographic power, which they transparently are. It's a double deceit. IQ fuelled econonomic efficiency is one thing, but this is resource competition. They want more of them, and I think you underestimate how hard it will be to deflect criticism that whitey is keeping the 'bronze' man down. Better to be honest.
Leveller
2003-08-01 09:32 | User Profile
** http://www.saja.org
[img]http://www.saja.org/images/iconjenningsgolden.jpg[/img]**
It seems you need a racial lobby to get anywhere these days. :D
This compromise is more in your interests than mine, as I am not the supplicant here. After all, it is my group - the deracinated internationalist "Jeurasian" elite - that is in power.
And what is the source of their power ?
Leveller
2003-08-01 09:52 | User Profile
Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Aug 1 2003, 07:42 * *... Of course, the thing is that you want to get other groups - black workers, Jews scared of anti-semitism, nonwhite taxpayers like myself - onsides. Masking the overt racial element is crucial for success, as high levels of unskilled Hispanic immigration occasions disfavor from virtually every group - including their own:
[url=http://www.vdare.com/sailer/sailer_immigrant_who.htm]http://www.vdare.com/sailer/sailer_immigrant_who.htm[/url]
Talking about skilled vs. unskilled is both more precise and more likely to succeed. Also, it helps to phrase restrictionism in left-wing terms.**
Godless, You might be right about tactics, but:
From the sailor article you referenced:
"The first view appears to be a political nonstarter, because of the nonstop indoctrination of whites against them personally feeling any ethnocentrism."
Whites exclusively, I would add. For some of us, this is the greater issue. Multiculturalism has got to go.
Leveller
2003-08-01 10:08 | User Profile
Originally posted by godlesscapitalist+Aug 1 2003, 10:05 -->
QUOTE* (godlesscapitalist @ Aug 1 2003, 10:05 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Leveller@Aug 1 2003, 03:52 * ** For some of us, this is the greater issue. Multiculturalism has got to go. ** I agree that multiculturalism has to go. Did you see this thread of mine, on why I think that there are going to be some exciting scientific/political developments in race-realism in the near future?
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=9721&st=62]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...opic=9721&st=62[/url] **
I did, and I'd read similar previously on gnxp :) . It was very interesting, but facts rarely get in the way of a good (or rather a useful) ideology.
Aiwaz93
2003-08-01 19:58 | User Profile
In my view, those who post deliberately provocative messages and those who rise to the bait are equally as culpable. Ignore Rban and treat him as the pariah (!) that he is. Then he might go away and seek out like-minded souls. It's unfortunate that the moderator of this group does not ban him. He serves no useful purpose, has nothing clever to say, is not even amusing or witty, just a waste of space.
Aiwaz.
Eendracht Maakt Mag
2003-08-02 03:51 | User Profile
*Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Aug 1 2003, 00:54 * **
1) Much of the Russian Far East used to belong to China**
All of the American Southwest used to belong to Mexico.
**2) Land only belongs to those who are able to defend it. See: Native Americans, South Vietnamese, etc. **
Russia could easily repulse any Chinese military attack on Russian soil (at least in the near future); unrestrained illegal immigration through an overestended border is an entirely different issue. How well has America defended itself against the Mexican "reconquista" of the Southwest?
**3) Russia invaded plenty of countries in its heyday as the USSR, including Hungary and Afghanistan, so it has no moral high ground (really, no country does). **
Russia did not displace the native population or colonize the territory of any of these countries.
**4) As the article points out, these are not hapless Mexican fruit pickers. They are intelligent and entrepreneurial enough to gain the upper hand economically, which is why they're now employing Russians as cheap labor. So it is more than arguable that many Russians benefit economically from this "invasion". **
They are employing Russians as "cheap labor" due to the very simple reason that they outnumber the Russians.
5) Also, someone talked about large scale "deportation". This is highly unlikely, because ** China is no Mexico . It is a nuclear power that would probably regard an "Operation Wetback" style operation as an act of war. **
I don't believe deporation is feasible either. I simply disagree with your implicit claim that the high IQ of the Chinese renders them unaccountable for their unethical behavior (illegal immigration is in my opinion as unethical as any crime).
**6) Lastly, it should be noted that Russia was the first country to permanently lose territory to a nonwhite power in the 20th century, in the Russo-Japanese war in 1905. **
Red herring-this information is completely irrelevant. In any case, history abounds with examples of numerically inferior forces defeating numerically superior ones. For example, Great Britain would probably have lost the Boer war had Kitschner not decided to resort to full-scale genocide (as a matter of fact, British battlefield fatalities outnumbered those of the Boers at a ratio of 1.5:1.)
Eendracht Maakt Mag
2003-08-02 07:30 | User Profile
*Originally posted by rban@Aug 1 2003, 09:37 * ** I think we need to openly declare them as half-Mongoloid and banish them. They are completely worthless to us.
**
Who are "us"? Does [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=8491]AmRen[/url] accept Hindus now or something?
Anarch
2003-08-02 12:44 | User Profile
*Originally posted by rban@Aug 1 2003, 09:37 * ** The truth of the matter is, including their incompetent losses at the hands of the Japs, this group, the Slavs, has been nothing but an embarassment and a giant millstone around our collective Caucasian necks for ages. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, damages the WN cause more than to associate with this group.
I think we need to openly declare them as half-Mongoloid and banish them. They are completely worthless to us.
Eventually people on this forum will see the wisdom of this. **
At the risk of being banned for promoting violence, I'd say Rban should be forcefully removed from this plain of existance. Russians are white and you, rban, are a waste of oxygen. Thank you all for your time ;) B)
Aiwaz93
2003-08-02 17:12 | User Profile
Not just a waste of oxygen, more like a waste of menstrual blood.
Dan Dare
2003-08-02 19:47 | User Profile
An interesting thread until the appearance of the turbaned one.
However, I'd like to question the underlying assumption that Russia is going to have to deal with it's Chinese problem in the Far East on its own.
It seems to me more likely that Russia, along with the Ukraine, will be part of the EU in less than 10 years.
Why the US administration is not promoting that rather than angling for Turkey's accession is one of life's mysteries. Although perhaps it isn't.
There will still remain the problem of illegal immigration which is a pan-European issue but there are technical and administrative solutions for that already available.
Sisyfos
2003-08-02 20:58 | User Profile
As well as being an invaluable resources site, OD is also a good source of (apparently unintended) comic relief, largely through the efforts of one or two tawdry contributors. So please, so long as language guidelines are adhered to, no banning of court jesters!
Concerning the Russo-Japanese war it should be noted that Jewish financiers were not the only folks providing assistance. The war at sea was essentially a contest between students of two distinct naval traditions. Russia was cozy with France and was heavily influenced by her on naval matters, including construction, modernization, and tactics. Japanââ¬â¢s alliance with Britain meant that she was the recipient on much of her naval expertise. History tells us Japan had the better teacher. Nor was it a matter of just being diligent students, as many Japanese officers actually were in attending British Naval Colleges. All their capital ships at Tsushima, for example, were built in British shipyards (though some may have been war prizes).
Of course, long before WWII, Japan, ever the quick learner, was already in the habit of building her own ships with which to impress the Americans and British. The pattern endures. When US military capabilities diminish and begin to accurately reflect her economic standing and health of her society, the Americans will rue the day they first began to think of China as a ââ¬Åmarketââ¬Â as opposed to a competing state organism.
Importing Aliens that will supplant white populations is the number one sin of the Occident. Sharing our technology is number two.
Dan Dare
2003-08-03 02:35 | User Profile
I would hope that this little brain puzzler isn't keeping you up nights.
Thank you WM, your concern is appreciated.
The answer is not really, although I do occasionally wake up in a mild sweat wondering if 'we' have signed up with the right power bloc.
Ah, but who is we I hear you ask, do you have a mouse in your pocket?
Dan Dare
2003-08-03 02:37 | User Profile
Sisyfos wrote:
**Importing Aliens that will supplant white populations is the number one sin of the Occident. Sharing our technology is number two. **
You cribbed this from Spengler, admit it.
Hilaire Belloc
2003-08-03 02:39 | User Profile
Here's an interesting article about China as a supposed military superpower [url=http://www.g2mil.com/Aug2001.htm]http://www.g2mil.com/Aug2001.htm[/url]
It states
** Despite the image of a growing China superpower portrayed in the American media, China's military remains second class. Estimates of Chinese military spending range from the CIA's $12.6 billion a year, to $37.5 billion by the respected Institute of Strategic Studies, whose latest "1999" data will be cited throughout this article. Interestingly, both China and Taiwan (which spends $10.7 billion annually) devote a smaller percentage of their GDP to their military than the USA, which spent a whopping $305.4 billion in 1999. President Bush has also proposed a two-year increase in military spending that will exceed China's entire military budget. In contrast, news reports of China's "big military build-up" over the past two years fail to note that it just matches its economic growth, and amounts only $4 billion more each year. China does have nuclear weapons, but the USA has many times more and would use them to retaliate if Taiwan were nuked.
The most ignored aspect of the China-Taiwan conflict is China's other national security concerns. It has a long disputed border with unstable Russia (which spends $55.0 billion each year on its military). China also has a disputed border with India ($10.7 billion) which resulted in a short war in 1962 and a 1986 border clash. India's population will surpass China's by 2020, and Indians are irritated by Chinese military sales to their archrival Pakistan. Tensions with Vietnam ($0.9 billion) remain since 1979 when China invaded to teach them a lesson about invading Cambodia, resulting in a stalemate which killed 55,000 Chinese. Finally, China is wary of the Japanese, who killed millions of its citizens during World War II. Japan spends more on its military than China ($41.1 billion in 1999) and possesses the most powerful air and naval force in the Western Pacific. Japan may seem docile today, but politicians change quickly, and all Asian nations worry since Japan has begun building amphibious ships.**
He didn't even mention Islamic fundelmentalism in Central Asia which is already beginning to spread over among China's muslim population. A militant seperatist movement is growing in China's western provinces(which is largely Muslim).
China has historically mostly been an isolationist country. Chinese emperors often refered to China as "all under heaven". This is further proved with China building the Great Wall to keep both the nomads out and Chinese in. Only once in a while did China send any troops north to try to conquer the nomads, but with limited success. China did send explorers around the word during the Ming Dynasty, but did not make efforted to colonize/conquer the lands they discovered.
China is surronded by potential enemies. For China to engage in an aggressive foreign policy(including trying to take over Russian far east) is sheer stupidity and even defies its own history!
Sisyfos
2003-08-03 05:39 | User Profile
Dan Dare:
** > Importing Aliens that will supplant white populations is the number one sin of the Occident. Sharing our technology is number two.
You cribbed this from Spengler, admit it.**
I doubt it. If youââ¬â¢ve a particular passage in mind, feel free to produce it. Generally, in my case, your odds at detection are better when you say Revilo Oliver. From him I filch liberally.
friedrich braun
2003-08-04 06:07 | User Profile
Rban:
Please indicate the WN forums that exclude Slavs, yet accept East Indians.
The day that mainstream WN organizations decide to include East Indians in their ingroup, that's the day that I'll cease calling myself a WN.
Michael Rienzi adopts a fairly typical WN position on the "who are we" question (I'm willing to include Slavs and Southern Europeans for the purposes of WN. Rienzi is a Southern Italian, hence, much of what he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.)
The "Who are We?" Dilemma
MX Rienzi
The issue ââ¬â "Who are We?" - has come up in many discussions, generated many a virtual slugfest, and has never been resolved. So far, there are no winners, only losers. The matter will not be resolved now. It is clear to me that the "movement" is very heterogenous about "who are we", and in many cases quite contradictory. In point of fact there is no agreement on what the criteria should be in determining this, never mind agreement on the results of this determination.
We can argue and counter-argue this until there are only two "white" (however defined) folks left on Earth, debating this issue between themselves as they are standing in front of the colored firing squad.
My general answer is for activists (and here I mean people who are, in the broadest sense, 'politically involved', and not just folks ranting on discussion lists) to determine for themselves what their ingroup is and seek out others who have the same determination, and work for the interests of that ingroup. Sadly, even something as simple and self-evident as that is probably too much to ask, else we would not constantly be at one anothers' throats.
I have, in many places, put forth what my ingroup is, and there are others who agree, and this is found at: [url=http://www.legioneuropa.org]http://www.legioneuropa.org[/url] . Those who agree are welcome to participate in our projects. Those who disagree are welcome to pursue their own ingroup interests, and as long as that does not harm our endeavors, we say godspeed, and good luck.
It is my opinion that humans are 'biocultural' organisms, and that the totality of what humans are - both genes and extended phenotypes (which includes behavior and culture, not just physical appearance) - should help determine "who are we?" I would consider all (gentile) peoples of European descent as potential members of my ingroup (whether they are so in fact depends on their behaviors, choices, etc.). Despite my embrace of autosomal DNA testing as a methodology of resolving individual conflicts over which activist is or is not a "mulatto" (or "mestizo" or "Eurasian") I do not believe that specific genetic alleles at particular loci determine "who are we", just as I do not believe that specific and subjective (e.g., Leo Felton: young Felton here, as a "movement" member here) evaluations of "direct phenotype" can alone determine this - after all, if a mulatto or a Jew "looks like" a member of your ingroup, would you accept them? Culture alone fails for the obvious reason that most people are not culture creators, and some groups (e.g.,East Asians) are very clever at mimicking western cultural artifacts (although the ability to create such artifacts can be one factor in determining - for a group - "who we are").
I would put forth that the (gentile) peoples of Europe - despite obvious differences that do exist in phenotypes, gene frequencies, and particular cultural forms - can be viewed as an ingroup, and is the only such largest ingroup that shares the particular features:
a) [Western] Caucasian racial background (ABD's "Indo-European"); B) ethnic formation within Europe before the age of discovery, that is, "European ancestry"; c) predominant ancestry deriving from Paleolithic and/or Neolithic 'Euro' ancestral pools (even those groups who do not speak Indo-Euro languages are primarily derived from such ancestries) ; d) a modern cultural structure that features the components mentioned by Kevin MacDonald in his TOQ article. He lists them as follows: "In the following I will argue that Western cultures have a unique cultural profile compared to other traditional civilizations:
- The Catholic Church and Christianity.
- A tendency toward monogamy.
- A tendency toward simple family structure based on the nuclear family.
- A greater tendency for marriage to be companionate and based on mutual affection of the partners.
- A de-emphasis on extended kinship relationships and its correlative, a relative lack of ethnocentrism.
- A tendency toward individualism and all of its implications: individual rights against the state, representative government, moral universalism, and science. " We believe the above to be an accurate representation of the basic set of unique cultural aspects that set Western cultures apart from all others. However, we also believe it desirable, given the current world-historical situation in which we find ourselves, to attempt to deviate rather drastically from the items in #'s 5 and 6. These particular aspects of our ââ¬Ëcharacter' are the very ones which have enabled ââ¬Ëoutgroups' to undermine our position in the world to the point that our very existence is threatened. Therefore, we propose to re-emphasize extended kinship relationships, increase ethnocentrism, build a heightened sense of collectivism, and eschew moral universalism in all its forms. It is our opinion that failure to do so will inevitably result in our final, permanent downfall.
e) Cultural derivation from Celto-Germanic, proto-Slavic and/or Greco- Roman antecedents, followed by 'modern Faustian' culture.
These are shared amongst 'western peoples' - regardless of differences in gene frequencies, relative genetic distances of various groups, cephalic indices, hair/eye color, specific cultural forms, etc.
This does not imply or endorse Euro-panmixia - far from it.
It does imply exactly who are the groups that share a common thread of western biocultural ancestry, modern common peril, and a shared future.
That's my opinion. There are of course those who disagree strongly. So be it.
Better though to work to preserve one's ingroup than to spend several more decades hair- splitting comparisons between ingroups.
The biocultural concept is not really all that elusive. It is easily understood and readily accepted by anyone who is not a bigot. The histories of all our peoples are a testament to it - the divisiveness of antiquated, demonstrably false doctrines notwithstanding.
Euro-gentile ethnic ingroups are numerous. They are as the cells of the greater body which encompasses them all ââ¬â Western bioculture. Nourish the cells, and the body will be healthy. Choose your ingroup, and nourish it -- but it is not nourished by attacking other cells of the body, or else it is cancerous.