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Thread 8589

Thread ID: 8589 | Posts: 69 | Started: 2003-07-30

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Zoroaster [OP]

2003-07-30 12:57 | User Profile

Supremacy and the Theology of Christian Identity 2001 By Dennis Tourish and Tim Wohlforth

Abstract Many white supremacist organizations in the United States (such as Posse Comitatus, Aryan Nations and innumerable militia groups) draw their inspiration from a theology known as Christian Identity, which argues that the white race of North America is descended from the lost tribes of Israel and is hence the Chosen People spoken of in the Bible. This philosophy also posits that Jews are the direct descendants of the Devil and that blacks are the product of interbreeding between people and animals. This paper discusses the main theoretical principles of Christian Identity, and how its absolutist belief system encourages high activity forms of organization, in-group favoritism, and the demonization of all out-groups. The paper argues that the underlying ideology of Christian Identity and its organizational manifestations are inherently cultic. In this context, fundamental principles of social psychological theory concerned with attribution, stereotyping, prejudice formation, and uncertainty reduction are applied to the Identity milieu to explain its apparent hold on significant numbers of people.

Read entire article:

[url=http://www.rickross.com/reference/christian_identity/christianidentity19.html]http://www.rickross.com/reference/christia...identity19.html[/url]

-Z-

golfball

2003-07-30 14:13 | User Profile

Jews have some things to say concerning Christians and other non-jews,

"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..." "Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII

The Jews refer to the remainder of Earths inhabitants, the non-Jewish peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim". Let's see what the Jewish Talmud teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew." Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form." Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." Coschen hamischpat 405

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called pigs." Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human." Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog." Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"." Jore dea 377, 1

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile." Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

Sojourner

2003-07-30 14:53 | User Profile

I think it would be fair to say that some of the followers of CI have been infiltrated by Talmudic Judaism as has all mainstream Christianity. Just different extremes. There are some good teachers within CI but the infiltrated "jews" within the organization will take it and distort it. All organized religion sets itself up to be infiltrated by them. Reminds me of the old joke where someone asks satan if there was a truth so profound and blatant that it couldn't be denied how would he combat it. He answers "I would organize it". They always find a way to weasel themselves into either side, middle or whatever. Same as in all political parties. Unfortunately they have a lot of willing useful idiots that help them out in distorting all truths.

golfball

2003-07-30 15:24 | User Profile

I know that Jews have successfully Judiazed the Southern Baptist Church as a whole. The SBC has turned into an orgy of race mixing and queerdom that is so filthy one cannot stand to be affliated with it anymore.

When pastors and other elders of the church ( Deacons ) start embracing Satan (False Doctrine ) and Judeo-Christianity, and calling it good, there is truly nothing there to save.

When I talk with youngsters and other young Christians, I explain that they should read the Holy Bible and take it literally. I explain to them and point out filthy false doctrine such as the Hobbs doctrine and other Apostate sources. The Word of God is what it is to be taken literally and without need of Apostate doctrine to "Direct" one towards the abomination of equality and inclusion.

There are still many that will not accept that Whites are descendants of Adam, not monkeys. Or, that negroes and some other non-whites are an older race than Adam. It is important to read the Holy Bible for what it says and presents itself as, a guide for racial integrity and spiritual developement.

xmetalhead

2003-07-30 15:44 | User Profile

Golf, I can see the Old Testament as a literal account of events although having divine prophsey of the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The New Testatment should not be taken literally.

It is clearly prophesised by Jesus about the "abomination of desolation" where the Church would eventually grow apostate and eagerly embrace false doctrines. That is clearly happening now in many or most churches and denominations.

A radio preacher named Harold Camping who started Family Radio Network has written extensively on the current state of the church and went on to declare that the world now is in the "end of the church age" where churches are failing to bring any Truth, unable to effectively save people, and going irreversibly apostate. He goes on to say that believers should stop going to church when the Holy Spirit reveals to you that your church is not preaching sound doctrine.

His predictions and declarations have drawn the wrath of many Protestant churches of all denominations. Many people have scorned him madly. I happen to agree with him, "nutcase" that I am. :wacko:

PS. I still attend church on Sundays, but the message is weak. Morsels of truth scattered about but nothing that kicks your butt.

golfball

2003-07-31 02:49 | User Profile

I still take the New Testament literally. As for that matter, the whole Bible included.

However, you have pointed to the precise reason I no longer felt comfortable in the modern, progressive SBC church. They are rolling downhill like a snowball headed for Hell. ( Tolerance for racemixers, queers, pedophiles...) No one to stand up and ring the Liberty Bell. ( At least for White Christians )

I am not going to look into the face of a racemixer or queer or pedophile and call it,"Brother". Or, allow them or their kind to use Jesus Christ as an excuse to get within close proximity of my white children.

I do not want any part of what they ( Judeo-Christians ) are about to receive........ :huh:

Zoroaster

2003-07-31 15:03 | User Profile

Roughly thirty years ago, while in collage, I became interested in the Christian Identity Movement. Its leading voice at the time was Shelton Emory, who ran a radio ministry. Through his program I purchased “Tracing Your Ancestors”—the book that served as the canon for the movement. It was the work of a Scot, can’t remember his name, though I do the book, a fascinating account filled with stuff you wont find in history books.

In the introduction the writer pointed out that it was an old Jew antique dealer who first turned him on to the assumption that Northern European peoples, namely Celts and Anglo-Saxons, were not really white people, but were instead ancient Israelites--the Ten Lost Tribes of Biblical lore taken captive in 721 BC by the Assyrians and merged, hence lost to history. I was amazed to discover these ancient Israelites had re-surfaced as British Israelites, that they were the ancestors of the British and American peoples, my people, and that we, not Jews as I had been taught in Sunday School, were the beneficiaries of God’s promise to Abraham. In other words, we and not Jews were the noble, conquering race, destined to rule the world.

Archeological finds of the mid-nineteenth century played a part in the lore of the British Israelites, but I suspect the Jew also played a role in promoting the idea. The Zionist Movement came into being about the same time as the British Israelites, and the Jew/Zionist needed solidarity with the Brits, the most powerful nation on earth then, to bring into reality modern-day Israel. And what better way to do it than promote the idea of brotherhood, that they (Jews) were really the racial kinsmen of Anglo-Saxons.

There was a downside for the Jews, however, I read for first time in “Tracing Your Ancestors” about the Khazar Empire, how it converted to Judaism eight centuries after Christ, that 90-percent of Jews in the world today were not Abraham’s descendants at all, but instead came from Turkic-Mongol tribes.

The writer warned of Nazism--the book was published in 1927 before Hitler came to power—he feared they didn’t properly understand his idea of racial supremacy, in his case the Anglo-Saxons of the British Empire, and that it could result in catastrophe. He proved to be prophetic. We all know how the Jew exaggerated the “Final Solution” which was really a Jewish State in Madagascar into the Holyhoax in which six million of his kind replaced Christ on the Cross and how, to take NeoNietzsche’s historic summary presented in “My Essay at VNN” a step farther, Jewry replaced the Papacy as the seat of Christendom.

The truth seems to be that we white folks are victims of a mighty hoax, in which the true story of our great, unsurpassed civilization is distorted by Jews and wanna-be Jews whose lies and fabels are invented to destroy us.

Christian Identity cannot withstand serious scholarship.

The Assyrian annexation of the small kingdom of Israel (745-722 BC) exiled thousands of its leading citizens and replaced them with foreigners from other conqured lands; such a campaign would have had little, if any impact upon the Indo-European wanderers who, far to north, had been marching into Europe for more than a millennium before the conquest. The vast majority of the ancient Israelis, i.e. the Ten Lost Tribes, remained in Israel, and they were referred to in later literature as “Samaritans.”

Eyes have one language everywhere: Bo Derek brings a Valkyrie to mind, not some Esther serving a Persian king. Despite what the Jew says, the Nordic and the Semite, or we might say the Khazar, are not the same—physically or spiritually.

The study of historical and comparative linguistics, philology, puts the final nail in the Christian Identity coffin. Philologists surmise that around 1000 BC the ‘Old European language’ began to disintegrate into individual languages such as Italic (the early form of Latin) Germanic, Slavic, Baltic and Celtic. The speakers of ‘Old European’ were warriors who tamed the horse and set up a new hierarchical social system on that basis. They had brought the horse into western and central Europe from where it had originated, the steppes of Eurasia, not deserts of the Middle East.

The root of both the ‘Old European’ and the ‘Indo-European’ languages is the Ur-language, which, after years of research and study, has been traced to the mouth of the Volga River. Toward 2000 BC these Indo-European speakers began to migrate from their homeland and brought forth a series of new cultures in Europe and Asia, ranging from Aryan Indians via the Hittite Empire and the Mycenaean principalities of Greece, celebrated by Homer. Later the Dorian Greeks and Latin speakers entered Western Europe, followed by the Celtic and Germanic tribes.

To make a long story short, people, if there was anything at all to your Christian Identity notions we'd all be speaking Hebrew, not English. I sympathize with your desire to preserve white culture, but it can only be done with a true understanding of history. And our history is second to none. Wanna-be Jews don’t help our cause. I’m not berating you people. After all, the CI movement once captivated me. All I'm saying is that you ought to do a little research on the subject and apply some common sense.

Regards,

-Z-

Patrick

2003-07-31 19:21 | User Profile

.....You must have had a really strong faith, Zorro... :rolleyes:

golfball

2003-08-01 02:23 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Zoroaster@Jul 31 2003, 10:03 * ** ........

The Assyrian annexation of the small kingdom of Israel (745-722 BC) exiled thousands of its leading citizens and replaced them with foreigners from other conqured lands; ........ **

What is your source for this information?

golfball

2003-08-01 02:32 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Zoroaster@Jul 31 2003, 10:03 * **

The study of historical and comparative linguistics, philology, puts the final nail in the Christian Identity coffin. Philologists surmise that around 1000 BC ..... **

You accept a speculation? i.e. "surmise", speculate, guess..... ???????

If I believed every other damned idiot that speculated or surmised..... then I would not have room for faith in the Word of God.

I would not recommend that anyone risk their soul this late in the game over someone else's speculation of liguistics or origins of languge.

Patrick

2003-08-01 04:06 | User Profile

"Well, they've already researched Thomas Jefferson, and found that he was . . . CI!"

.....Not even enough to call the "tip of the iceburg", (are iceburgs "jewish"?); Zorro is obviously an lightweight in the research department... Likewise the linguistics; English is almost a mirror of the Hebrew, Zorro... I'm embarassed for you, actually...

golfball...

.....You know the deal, by now, don't you?

Zoroaster

2003-08-01 09:54 | User Profile

IAH and Patrick are either liars or ignoramuses. Since they can post on the internet, I'd call them liars. I wonder what kind of god liars worship.

-Z-

Sojourner

2003-08-01 14:10 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Zoroaster@Aug 1 2003, 03:54 * ** IAH and Patrick are either liars or ignoramuses. Since they can post on the internet, I'd call them liars. I wonder what kind of god liars worship.

-Z- **

As it is written…..

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Patrick

2003-08-01 14:32 | User Profile

”I’m not berating you people. After all, the CI movement once captivated me. All I’m saying is that you ought to do a little research on the subject and apply some common sense.”

hehehe...

.....The only other time I had heard something similar was from a man in Wyoming that said he had been “caught up” in Christian Identity before, (as this is what he was accusing me of), and that I “needed more research”; later, he let it slip that he was, indeed, “jewish”... His “research” was non-existent, at best, and typically relied upon some idiot “jewish” debunker to put forth a point, then declared the matter “settled”, while thumping his chest and proclaiming his “victory”; he refused to acknowledge the first piece of evidence, and was made to look completely foolish, quite like Zorro, here... A technique straight from the playbook, perhaps? Quite ineffective, at any rate...

.....Further, I had imagined that the purpose of this medium was to see who could, or could not, back up their assertions; I’ve seen nothing from you but hot air, thus far, and some lame nonsense from your “esteemed” Dr. Oliver... Are you waiting to show all of your “evidence” at once? You declare the scholarship lacking for much of my position, (although it is not that of ”Identity”), but I would beg to differ...

”IAH and Patrick are either liars or ignoramuses. Since they can post on the internet, I’d call them liars. I wonder what kind of god liars worship.”

.....I had said already that it has been my experience that those with a hair-trigger shout of “Liar!” are typically seeing in others, that which they are; you, like another, may consider yourself lucky that this is an electronic media, and you aren’t referring to me as such within arm’s reach...

.....”Zoroaster” is a rather apt handle for you; you’re begininning to make my “aste” “zor”... :lol:

Sojourner...

.....Thank you; perhaps Proverbs, 18:12 applies, as well...

Zoroaster

2003-08-01 19:59 | User Profile

Patrick is not only a liar but a bully, who now threatens a 64-year-old diabetic with physical harm. Well, killer, I sleep awful light, and if you come-a-calling, you're in for a big surprise.

English is not Hebrew. Consult any dictionary or encyclopedia and it will say English belongs to the Germanic family of Languages. Any educated person knows this. You are a liar, Patrick, a liar and a troll. Take your ADL disrupter handbook and play on the freeway. From now on, I going to do the smart thing and ignore your posts.

This forum has been disrupted lately by agent provocateurs posing as fanatical Christians. They are rather like pigs called by Patrick to the feeding trough. "Here pig! piggy, piggy, piggy." Here comes Sojourner with a Bible, now it's IAH. I wonder how many more little pigs there are.

It's best to ignore these zionazi creeps.

-Z-

Patrick

2003-08-01 21:13 | User Profile

”Patrick is not only a liar but a bully, who now threatens a 64-year-old diabetic with physical harm. Well, killer, I sleep awful light, and if you come-a-calling, you’re in for a big surprise.”

That’s alright, little girl...

.....It wasn’t a threat at all, just explaining what has been known to happen when I encounter jerks like you face-to-face; that back hand snaps so quick it becomes too late for “sorry” to be of much use... I would imagine that, had you encountered a man before you became a sixty-four year old whiney ass, it would have done you some good; I do have to wonder, however, as you show little ability to actually comprehend the ramifications of human interaction, much less, act upon them... You pose as victim after running your mouth the way you had; very lame, indeed...

”English is not Hebrew. Consult any dictionary or encyclopedia and it will say English belongs to the Germanic family of Languages. Any educated person knows this. You are a liar, Patrick, a liar and a troll. Take your ADL disrupter handbook and play on the freeway. From now on, I going to do the smart thing and ignore your posts.”

.....Allow me to illustrate how this works; you certainly have no shortage of opinion, yet your editorializing is completely sans of any valid information, and apparently based solely upon your own “whimsy”... when one makes an assertion, they must back it up, or be considered a fool, as I presently do you; when I say “English mirrors the Hebrew”, I base such upon volumes of evidence in existence... Further, that those Germanic peoples derived of Israelites is a demonstrable fact; not that I expect knowledge to take root in you, at this late date, so for the benefit of the reader of your nonsense:

.....That the ‘fair Kelts of an Irish Village' are indeed Israelites is thus clear. Even their (Kelts'), language further confirms such identification, for it, (Erse), is akin to both Gaelic and Welsh. The similarity of the last-mentioned, (Welsh), to Hebrew is so great that it drew forth considerable research on the part of the noted Hebrew Scholar of the last century, Dr. Moses Margoliouth, (The researches of Dr. Margoliouth led him to become a believer in the Israel identity, to which his own article The Banner of Israel, November 21, 1877, testifies, pp. 23-24. See also the following comment:

....."A small remnant of, (Solomon's subjects), remained in Cornwall since that time, (the time of the building of the Temple). I have traced that remnant by the paths of philology, and the byways of nomenclature. I might adduce an array of whole sentences, exactly alike in the languages of Hebrew and the ancient Cornish. I might adduce some of the proper names which prevailed among the aboriginal Britons long before they knew anything of Christianity, such as Adam, Abraham, Asaph...Daniel, Solomon..." (The Hebrews in East Anglia, (1870), Margoliouth)

.....In Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets, (1985), E. Raymond Capt states,

....."All etymologists know that the Greek, Latin, German, Icelandic, Norse, Danish, Dutch and several other languages figure in the structure and vocabulary of the present Anglo-Saxon (English) language. While Greek and Latin words have contributed to the English language more than 75 percent of English words come direct from Hebrew words or their roots. Of course, many of these old British words are used in modern dress; their spelling and...the pronunciations, have been varied as time has passed. (p. 187)

.....Capt offers a long list of identical English and Hebrew words (pp. 187-191) from God's Covenant Man, (1916) by Professor Edward Odlum.

.....Rev. John Heslip, in Who And Where Are The Lost Ten Tribes?, records,

....."Another has written, ‘scarcely any Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivative in the ancient British language.' An eminent Cornish scholar of the last century, who devoted a great deal of time to prove the affinity between the Hebrew and Welsh languages, observes.

....."‘It would be difficult to adduce a single article or form of construction in the Hebrew grammar, but...the same is to be found in Welsh, and that there are many whole sentences in both languages exactly the same in the very words. Canon Lyson finds 5,000 Hebrew roots in the English tongue...this is quite understandable in... light of the fact...The British Isles were peopled by...descendants of the Ten Tribes. On any other premise it is hardly understandable.'" (p. 17-18)

.....William Tyndale, (1492?-1536), the English reformer, (who was strangled to death and then burned for his translation of Holy Scriptures into English), announced his remarkable discovery that because of the similarities between Hebrew and English, English was the most suitable language for a translation of the Scriptures. He said,

....."The properties of the Hebrew tongue agreeth one thousand times more with the English than with the Latin or the Greek. The manner of speaking is in both one, so that, in a thousand places, there needest not be but to translate the Hebrew word for word." .....Though modern English is altogether a different language than ancient Hebrew, the intermediary languages mentioned clearly form a link between the two...

.....L. Maclean, F.O.S., a Gaelic scholar, in The History of The Celtic Language (1840), quoting Webster's Analysis of the English Language, (did you catch this portion, genius?), recorded,

"...the Saxon words constitute our mother tongue, being words which

our ancestors brought with them from Asia. The Danish and the Welsh are also primitive tongues and may be considered a part of our vernacular language. They are of equal antiquity with the Chaldeae and Syriac."

.....Gladys Taylor, in "Our Mother Tongue," (published in Vol. E, No. 3; June 1994 of The Covenant Report, (BIWF 242 Dominion Rd., Mount Eden, Aukland, 3, New Zealand) states,

"...Early 19th century philologists had arrived at the conclusion,

which they firmly maintained, that the early Celtic languages were derived... from a parent tongue of central Asia...and...came to the conclusion that the roots of the Gaelic tongues were both Semitic and pre-Hebrew."

.....Taylor continues;

....."A close study shows the Gaelic of the ancient bards to be more ancient than that of the Hebrew Old Testament, although obviously derived from the same parent language. The fact that the Welsh is so close to Hebrew as to be understood by a Hebrew scholar...is an indication that the tribes who brought the Welsh language were Hebrew-speaking and were later arrivals than the earliest settlers in Ireland. The Silurus of Wales were a dominant and artistic people whose literary style may well have been adopted from earlier settlers in that region."

.....It was reported that in 1827, the British & Foreign Bible Society sent Hebrew, (obviously NOT modern "Hebrew"), Bibles to Ireland for the Gaelic-speaking peasantry to read. Although they could not read English, they could read Hebrew.

.....Taylor also draws parallel to the Hebrew names of people prominent throughout the British Isles. In the Irish and Scottish annals, the name of several princes in the genealogies of the royal house of Tara was "Heber" or "Eber;" the very name of the father of the Hebrews. Further, the name is preserved in the very names of the tribes who peopled these islands the Hibernians, (Iberich), and Hebrideans, (Ebrideans). Place names of Hebrew origin are also common.

.....That’s just a start; those of you that deny are either ignorant, or are counting on others so being; for the record, Zorro, trolls attempt to elicit emotion, sans evidence, (much as you have shown us), which I abhorr... posters, like myself, enjoy intellectual discussion with others that possess the wherewithal to so do; that is not trolling... I have no need to call you a liar and a troll, as your own words are on record here for all to see; I’m happy to continue making you look very foolish...

This forum has been disrupted lately by agent provocateurs posing as fanatical Christians. They are rather like pigs called by Patrick to the feeding trough. “Here pig! piggy, piggy, piggy.” Here comes Sojourner with a Bible, now it’s IAH. I wonder how many more little pigs there are.

.....For your information, “fanatical Christians” is a redundency; further, if you had anything of substance to offer, you would do so, as opposed to name-calling, playing the victim, and utilizing ridicule in the sorry manner which you have displayed... obviously, you do not...

”It’s best to ignore these zionazi creeps.”

.....For folks like you, I would have to agree; when you engage one such as myself, your bankrupt position betrays your pretensions... It was good for a chuckle the way you complain about Christians posting to a Christian room of the forum, however; do you think you’ll get to your first iota of evidence anytime soon?

Zoroaster

2003-08-01 21:31 | User Profile

How bout a good-old Anglo-Saxon poem:

"Here's an object more of dread Than aught the grave contains-- A human form with reason fled, While wretched life remains."

ABRAM LINCOLN, LETTER TO ANDREW jOHNSON, SEPT. 6, 1846

Smart guy, Abe, describes Patrick and his CI nonsense perfectly.

-Z-

Mr.Wilson

2003-08-02 00:30 | User Profile

Wintermute: Which English-language version of the Old Testament do you use for reference?

golfball

2003-08-02 03:51 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Patrick@Jul 31 2003, 23:06 * **

golfball...

.....You know the deal, by now, don't you? **

People that reject the word of God and the conviction it brings cannot be helped. Yet, I would still post scripture when questions are asked concerning the body of my post. I will just have to let it ride......

Patrick

2003-08-02 03:59 | User Profile

.....Ol' Zor ast seems to have just that; he cannot answer even the first point of contention, but he's hell on throwing stones, isn't he? What a marroon...

golfball

2003-08-02 04:05 | User Profile

Zoroaster will come to understand why it is important to read the Word of God personally and not rely on someone else to read it for 'em.

Avalanche

2003-08-02 04:17 | User Profile

Short quote symbolic of long long message of apparently-intended explanation: > **When Ezekiel is asked to eat the dung cakes, he doesn't want to of course and is probably wonder what in the world does God mean by this. Up to this point in these scriptures, Ezekiel hasn't figured it out yet what God is saying. God does have a sense of humor! Too sad that God's own people make Him out to be some kind of sicko or something. God knew the whole time that He wasn't going to make Ezekiel literally eat man's dung. ** Convoluted? Did someone say convoluted?!?! :blink:

SSSSTTTRRRETTTTCCCCCHHHH and reach! Twist, bend, contort!

golfball

2003-08-02 16:54 | User Profile

*Originally posted by IAH@Aug 2 2003, 11:08 * ** ...... Therefore, when His children turn on Him today, they'll do the same His children did then. Today it may be putting a house, fancy car, or what ever "luxeries" above God, then whine at the same time "Why am I not happy?".

...... **

Back during Moses time, the Jews screamed that they wanted a god they could see, so Aaron the Levite, had the Jews and the other ( stupid idiots )children of Israel bring him gold and other precious things to be turned into a golden calf.

Just as Judiased Christians of today are wont to do, Judeo-Christians follow the Jews' lead and have built unto themselves an apostate religion with a false god.

Those poor bastards........

Judeo-Christians have their form of apostate ( golden calf ) worship,"Judeo-Christianity", and their made up god ( golden calf ) that tolerates pedophiles, queers and racemixers.

My God does NOT tolerate queers, racemixers or their bastard offspring, pedophiles ( those that prey upon children ) or filthy people. My God is explained CLEARLY in the Old Testament and His will is explained CLEARLY in the New Testament. His Son Jesus Christ does not place himself ABOVE Our Heavenly Father.

Only idiots do that.

Other folks can choose to fabricate any kind of god they wish. They can make a god that tolerates anything and loves anybody/everybody. Their god can forgive any or all things. That god can save all of the people in the world.

That god IS NOT Jesus Christ or Our Father that is in Heaven.

Nagelfar

2003-08-03 10:39 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Aug 1 2003, 15:13 * ** ”Patrick is not only a liar but a bully, who now threatens a 64-year-old diabetic with physical harm. Well, killer, I sleep awful light, and if you come-a-calling, you’re in for a big surprise.”*

That’s alright, little girl...

.....It wasn’t a threat at all, just explaining what has been known to happen when I encounter jerks like you face-to-face; that back hand snaps so quick it becomes too late for “sorry” to be of much use... I would imagine that, had you encountered a man before you became a sixty-four year old whiney ass, it would have done you some good; I do have to wonder, however, as you show little ability to actually comprehend the ramifications of human interaction, much less, act upon them... You pose as victim after running your mouth the way you had; very lame, indeed...

”English is not Hebrew. Consult any dictionary or encyclopedia and it will say English belongs to the Germanic family of Languages. Any educated person knows this. You are a liar, Patrick, a liar and a troll. Take your ADL disrupter handbook and play on the freeway. From now on, I going to do the smart thing and ignore your posts.”

.....Allow me to illustrate how this works; you certainly have no shortage of opinion, yet your editorializing is completely sans of any valid information, and apparently based solely upon your own “whimsy”... when one makes an assertion, they must back it up, or be considered a fool, as I presently do you; when I say “English mirrors the Hebrew”, I base such upon volumes of evidence in existence... Further, that those Germanic peoples derived of Israelites is a demonstrable fact; not that I expect knowledge to take root in you, at this late date, so for the benefit of the reader of your nonsense:

.....That the ‘fair Kelts of an Irish Village' are indeed Israelites is thus clear. Even their (Kelts'), language further confirms such identification, for it, (Erse), is akin to both Gaelic and Welsh. The similarity of the last-mentioned, (Welsh), to Hebrew is so great that it drew forth considerable research on the part of the noted Hebrew Scholar of the last century, Dr. Moses Margoliouth, (The researches of Dr. Margoliouth led him to become a believer in the Israel identity, to which his own article The Banner of Israel, November 21, 1877, testifies, pp. 23-24. See also the following comment:

....."A small remnant of, (Solomon's subjects), remained in Cornwall since that time, (the time of the building of the Temple). I have traced that remnant by the paths of philology, and the byways of nomenclature. I might adduce an array of whole sentences, exactly alike in the languages of Hebrew and the ancient Cornish. I might adduce some of the proper names which prevailed among the aboriginal Britons long before they knew anything of Christianity, such as Adam, Abraham, Asaph...Daniel, Solomon..." (The Hebrews in East Anglia, (1870), Margoliouth)

.....In Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets, (1985), E. Raymond Capt states,

....."All etymologists know that the Greek, Latin, German, Icelandic, Norse, Danish, Dutch and several other languages figure in the structure and vocabulary of the present Anglo-Saxon (English) language. While Greek and Latin words have contributed to the English language more than 75 percent of English words come direct from Hebrew words or their roots. Of course, many of these old British words are used in modern dress; their spelling and...the pronunciations, have been varied as time has passed. (p. 187)

.....Capt offers a long list of identical English and Hebrew words (pp. 187-191) from God's Covenant Man, (1916) by Professor Edward Odlum.

.....Rev. John Heslip, in Who And Where Are The Lost Ten Tribes?, records,

....."Another has written, ‘scarcely any Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivative in the ancient British language.' An eminent Cornish scholar of the last century, who devoted a great deal of time to prove the affinity between the Hebrew and Welsh languages, observes.

....."‘It would be difficult to adduce a single article or form of construction in the Hebrew grammar, but...the same is to be found in Welsh, and that there are many whole sentences in both languages exactly the same in the very words. Canon Lyson finds 5,000 Hebrew roots in the English tongue...this is quite understandable in... light of the fact...The British Isles were peopled by...descendants of the Ten Tribes. On any other premise it is hardly understandable.'" (p. 17-18)

.....William Tyndale, (1492?-1536), the English reformer, (who was strangled to death and then burned for his translation of Holy Scriptures into English), announced his remarkable discovery that because of the similarities between Hebrew and English, English was the most suitable language for a translation of the Scriptures. He said,

....."The properties of the Hebrew tongue agreeth one thousand times more with the English than with the Latin or the Greek. The manner of speaking is in both one, so that, in a thousand places, there needest not be but to translate the Hebrew word for word." .....Though modern English is altogether a different language than ancient Hebrew, the intermediary languages mentioned clearly form a link between the two...

.....L. Maclean, F.O.S., a Gaelic scholar, in The History of The Celtic Language (1840), quoting Webster's Analysis of the English Language, (did you catch this portion, genius?), recorded,

"...the Saxon words constitute our mother tongue, being words which

our ancestors brought with them from Asia. The Danish and the Welsh are also primitive tongues and may be considered a part of our vernacular language. They are of equal antiquity with the Chaldeae and Syriac."

.....Gladys Taylor, in "Our Mother Tongue," (published in Vol. E, No. 3; June 1994 of The Covenant Report, (BIWF 242 Dominion Rd., Mount Eden, Aukland, 3, New Zealand) states,

"...Early 19th century philologists had arrived at the conclusion,

which they firmly maintained, that the early Celtic languages were derived... from a parent tongue of central Asia...and...came to the conclusion that the roots of the Gaelic tongues were both Semitic and pre-Hebrew."

.....Taylor continues;

....."A close study shows the Gaelic of the ancient bards to be more ancient than that of the Hebrew Old Testament, although obviously derived from the same parent language. The fact that the Welsh is so close to Hebrew as to be understood by a Hebrew scholar...is an indication that the tribes who brought the Welsh language were Hebrew-speaking and were later arrivals than the earliest settlers in Ireland. The Silurus of Wales were a dominant and artistic people whose literary style may well have been adopted from earlier settlers in that region."

.....It was reported that in 1827, the British & Foreign Bible Society sent Hebrew, (obviously NOT modern "Hebrew"), Bibles to Ireland for the Gaelic-speaking peasantry to read. Although they could not read English, they could read Hebrew.

.....Taylor also draws parallel to the Hebrew names of people prominent throughout the British Isles. In the Irish and Scottish annals, the name of several princes in the genealogies of the royal house of Tara was "Heber" or "Eber;" the very name of the father of the Hebrews. Further, the name is preserved in the very names of the tribes who peopled these islands the Hibernians, (Iberich), and Hebrideans, (Ebrideans). Place names of Hebrew origin are also common.

.....That’s just a start; those of you that deny are either ignorant, or are counting on others so being; for the record, Zorro, trolls attempt to elicit emotion, sans evidence, (much as you have shown us), which I abhorr... posters, like myself, enjoy intellectual discussion with others that possess the wherewithal to so do; that is not trolling... I have no need to call you a liar and a troll, as your own words are on record here for all to see; I’m happy to continue making you look very foolish...

This forum has been disrupted lately by agent provocateurs posing as fanatical Christians. They are rather like pigs called by Patrick to the feeding trough. “Here pig! piggy, piggy, piggy.” Here comes Sojourner with a Bible, now it’s IAH. I wonder how many more little pigs there are.

.....For your information, “fanatical Christians” is a redundency; further, if you had anything of substance to offer, you would do so, as opposed to name-calling, playing the victim, and utilizing ridicule in the sorry manner which you have displayed... obviously, you do not...

”It’s best to ignore these zionazi creeps.”

.....For folks like you, I would have to agree; when you engage one such as myself, your bankrupt position betrays your pretensions... It was good for a chuckle the way you complain about Christians posting to a Christian room of the forum, however; do you think you’ll get to your first iota of evidence anytime soon? **

this is all pseudo-science propaganda. no Germanic language is from the Afro-asiatic language group that Hebrew shares with the Negro & Hamitic languages of Africa, as any Oxford university press edition of any book on language groups will show you (these aren't things which are just posted on websites to cut & paste either as much of this is copywrite by the greatest authorities on the matter, but I own volumes, I am not going to type out the endless facts I can to prove otherwise to obviously an individual who would rather believe non-truths to comfort their poisoned attachment to inveterate conventionalisms)

there is no genetic link to any biblical dated corpes of Israel to any northern european peoples. we share no haplogroups or chromosomes with them anymore than one would with the broad spectrum of the entire race. English is Indo-European-Aryan, Hebrew is Afro-Asiatic-Semitic. they are worlds apart.

Patrick

2003-08-03 14:30 | User Profile

"I am not going to type out the endless facts I can to prove otherwise to obviously an individual who would rather believe non-truths to comfort their poisoned attachment to inveterate conventionalisms"

I see...

.....You would have me take your word for all, inspite of the volumes I happen to have read; okay, I've changed my mind about everything... thanks for straightening me out... :lol:

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-03 14:57 | User Profile

**When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word, What a glory He sheds on our way! While we do His good will, He abides with us still, And with all who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies, But His smile quickly drives it away; Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear, Can abide while we trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

Not a burden we bear, not a sorrow we share, But our toil He doth richly repay; Not a grief or a loss, not a frown or a cross, But is blessed if we trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

But we never can prove the delights of His love Until all on the altar we lay; For the favor He shows, for the joy He bestows, Are for them who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet. Or we’ll walk by His side in the way. What He says we will do, where He sends we will go; Never fear, only trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.**

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-03 14:59 | User Profile

**"What in Europe exist in diluted form are magnified and concentrated in the United State whereby they are revealed as the symptoms of disintegration and cultural and human regression. The American mentality can only be interpreted as an example of regression, which shows itself in the mental atrophy towards all higher interests and incomprehension of higher sensibility. The American mind has limited horizons, one confined to everything which is immediate and simplistic, with the inevitable consequence that everything is made banal, basic, and levelled down until it is deprived of all spiritual life...

"The 'primitive' American mind can only superficially be compared to a 'young' mind. The American mind is a feature of the regressive society to which I have already referred. A most significant aspect of American mentality and its lack of refinement is the closeness of the American way of thinking in general to the negroid way of thinking in particular, not only in well-known examples, such as music, but in multifarious aspects of the mass psyche and in the proliferation of superstitions and religious sects of every kind, which thrive in the United States as they do in few other countries."**

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-03 15:26 | User Profile

**Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!

THE FLAG HELD HIGH! OUR RANKS CLOSED FAST!

S.A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt.

THE S. A. MARCH WITH STEADY, STRONG STEPS.

kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaction erschossen,

COMRADES, KILLED BY COMMUNISTS AND REACTIONARIES

marschiern im geist in unserm Reihen mit.

MARCH IN SPIRIT IN OUR RANKS.

Die Strasse frei den braunen Bataillonen!

THE STREETS ARE FREE FOR THE BROWN BATTALIONS!

Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!

THE STREETS ARE FREE FOR THE STORMTROOPERS!

Es schaun aufs hakenkreuz voll hoffnung schon Millionen.

MILLIONS HAVE ALREADY DRAWN HOPE FROM THE SWASTIKA.

Der Tag für Freiheit und fuer Brot bricht an.

THE DAY OF FREEDOM AND SUSTENANCE BREAKS ANEW.

Zum letztenmal wird nun Appell geblasen!

FOR THE LAST TIME ROLL CALL WILL BE CALLED!

Zum kampf stehn wir alle schon bereit.

WE STAND READY FOR THE FIGHT.

Bald flattern hitlerfahnen ueber allen Strassen,

SOON HITLER'S FLAGS WILL FLY OVER ALL THE STREETS,

die knechtschaft dauert nur noch kurze Zeit!

THE TIME OF SLAVERY LASTS BUT A SHORT TIME LONGER!**

OH! YUK! NAZIS!

DOOODS! LETS ROLE!

FUK THEM EYE-RACK-EES!

GEE-ZUSS ROOLZ!

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-03 17:07 | User Profile

Wintermute,

Derek Jacoby as Claudius?

Neo

Texas Dissident

2003-08-03 17:33 | User Profile

Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@Aug 3 2003, 09:57 * ***When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word, What a glory He sheds on our way! While we do His good will, He abides with us still, And with all who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.** **

Thanks so much for quoting the lyrics to Trust and Obey, NN. It brings back wonderful memories singing those old hymns in church as a child. Wish the churches still sang those old hymns instead of the new 'praise' choruses that I don't care a lick for.

Nagelfar

2003-08-04 02:45 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Aug 3 2003, 08:30 * ** "I am not going to type out the endless facts I can to prove otherwise to obviously an individual who would rather believe non-truths to comfort their poisoned attachment to inveterate conventionalisms"*

I see...

.....You would have me take your word for all, inspite of the volumes I happen to have read; okay, I've changed my mind about everything... thanks for straightening me out... :lol: **

I didn't type anything out because I knew you wouldn't change your mind. I am not posting for your benefit but rather I am throwing my lot in with those who stand against you, and other's who may be reading this forum and taking what you post at worth. there is absolutely no value in having everyone think one way or for me to attempt to convert anyone at all to my way of thinking. even divergent beliefs that don't have any basis in reality can have a more abrasive and therefore more changing contribution to the world around ys. but it's simply not based in philology as it is known by the academic community today. rather, it is something which only exists in the sphere of Christian Zionism, and not people of an unbiased objective few and love for facts, the individuals claiming these things and making claims without showing actual word-structure or semantic connections, are doing so from a pre-desired outcome for "facts" to point the way they wanted them to before having any knowledge of the fact before hand.

Texas Dissident

2003-08-04 06:22 | User Profile

Originally posted by Nagelfar@Aug 3 2003, 21:45 * ...and not people of an unbiased objective few...*

Who are these people? Where do they live? Are you sure they're really existing humans? Epistemological questions abound.

Patrick

2003-08-04 14:59 | User Profile

”but it’s simply not based in philology as it is known by the academic community today. rather, it is something which only exists in the sphere of Christian Zionism, and not people of an unbiased objective few and love for facts,”

.....The “academic community” has proven itself unreliable in many endeavors by virtue of their “jewish” communist agenda; further, that you would declare that this exists only in the “sphere of Christian zionism” illustrates that you either have no concept of that which the Robertson/Falwell/Haggi crew puts forth in their false “Christian zionism” nonsense, as they certainly do not put forth the scholars cited above, which are not as easily dismissed as you seem apt to do with your hand-waving...

.....If you’ll notice some of the dates of these scholars, they were well before anything referred to today as “Christian zionism”; also, as I had said, this is but a small sampling of the evidence extant to this effect...

.....Here is a bit more for you; bold, mine, (continuing with Gladys Taylor)...

....."...The fact of the existence of the parent language of the Semitic peoples in the widely separated regions of cental Asia and the British Isles is given further prominence when we discover that, some two thousand years before Christ, while it, (Hebrew), was being used in Britain, another offshoot was in current use in Crete, precisely midway on the trade route to the west. Linguistically, as well as geographically. Crete stands in this halfway position and the recent findings of Dr. Cyrus H. Gordon, on the subject of Cretan languages, and enormously in our knowledge of migration chronology. In the report of his discoveries (Daily Telegraph, April 4, 1920), we were told that..." Minoan Linear ‘A' inscriptions and also ‘Eteo-Cretan,' long taken to the pre-Greek speech of Crete, are both actually Phoenician. The Eteo-Eretan is written with the Greek alphabet."

.....Australian-born archaeologist Vere Gordon Childe (1892-1957), in, Pre-historic Monuments of the British Isles, writing about the finds at Skara Brae, one the Orkney Islands off Scotland's coast, wrote, "The courtyard homes represent an Atlantic-Mediterranean plan, traceable to Minoan Crete by 2000 B.C."

.....Huddleston, prefacing John Toland's History of the Druids (1740), recorded;

....."Of all the phenomena of language, the most remarkable is the affinity of...Celtic and Sanskrit, two languages which cannot possibly have come in contact for more than three thousand years, and must, therefore, owe their similarity to the radical tincture of the primary language of Asia. That the Celtic is a dialect of the primary language of Asia has received sanction of the celebrated philologist, the late Professor Murray. (Presumably, Dr. J.A.H. Murry, the eminent Scottish philologist, lexicographer (1837-1915)) in his ‘Prospectus to The Philosophy of Language."

.....Frederick Haberman stated,

....."...Gaelic, the name of the language of Ireland, and the related (Scots) Gaelic of Scotland, both of them (are) branches of the Phoenician, as is also the Welsh and the Manx." (Tracing Our Ancestors: p. 120)

.....Colquhoun, in Our Descent From Israel Proved ...(1931), states,

....."Several other scholars have noted the extraordinary affinity between the Hebrew and the Welsh languages. Dr. Dvies, in his Welsh Grammar tells us that almost every page of the Welsh translation of the Bible is replete with Hebraisms, in the time, sense and spirit of the original. Another authority, Dr. Duncan M'Dougall, writing in the Evangelical Christian, says ‘You can take any sentence in Hebrew and change it into Gaelic, word for word, without altering the order of a single word or particle, (of speech), and you will have the correct Gaelic idiom in every case...”

.....E. Raymond Capt, in Missing Links found in the Assyrian Tablets...(p. 191), quotes the Vicar of Lampeter in Britain, (and Chaplain in the Royal Navy), Rev. Eliezer Williams (1754-1820), a noted researcher and prolific writer on ancient Celtic histories: (See The English Works of the Late Rev. Eliezer Williams...1840, or the individual titles: Ancient Celtic Tribes, Druids and Celtic Bards, Historical Anecdotes of the Welsh Language, and History of the Britons)...

.....Scarcely a Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivation in the British language...in Richard's Welsh and English Dictionary, (published in Bristol in 1750), and in several other philological works, the affinity... Welsh bears to the Hebrew language is strenuously maintained. But not only do the words themselves indicate that similarity between the two, their variations and inflections afford a much stronger proof of affinity.

.....Capt provides a small list of identical Welsh and Hebrew words, taken from British History Traced From Egypt and Palestine, (1927), by Major (and Rev.) L.G.A. Roberts, Com R.N., (Commander of the Royal Navy). Capt then states:

....."But it is not in single, isolated words only, that this resemblance strikes us; the conformity is equally remarkable in the idiomatic phrases of both languages, and in the formation of entire sentences..." (p. 193)

.....Roberts on page 34 in his, British History Traced, ...recounts that Charles Edwards (Oxford), (My! What esteem!-Patrick), a Welsh writer in his Hanes v Fydd, (pronounced "fyth"), (1676), confessed when he first undertook the study of the Hebrew language,

....."...in the exuberance of the devout exaltation at finding the vernacular language of his country, (Welsh), approached so near to that of Holy Writ, (Hebrew), he declares he...considered it impious on his part not to have withdrawn the veil of silence and concealment from this what he styles miraculous conformity.

.....Capt (Missing Links...pp. 196-197) also quotes Beale Poste:

....."With respect to the derivation of the Welsh language...there is so much admixture of the Hebrew...that Rowlands, in his Mona Antiqua, pp. 316-317...might almost be said to regard it, (Hebrew), as his mother tongue, and the Welsh to be an immediate derivation from it...A foreign savant pronounced some years ago that it, (the English), comprised within its compass six thousand pure Hebrew words, (Celtic Inscriptions on Gaulsh and British Coins; p. 148)

.....Other works that contain much proof that Hebrew is identical with Welsh, Irish, and other Celtic languages are:

.....Comparative Vocabulary of Forty-Eight Languages, Rev. Jacob Tomlin.

.....English Derived From Hebrew, (1869) by R. Govett.

.....God's Covenant Man: British Israel, (1927), Prof. Edward Odlum.

.....Hebrew and English: Some Psychic Likeness (a series of articles that appeared in The National Message in 1947) by Rev. J. Courtenay James, B.D., M.A., Ph.D.

.....Our British Ancestors, (1865), by Canon Samuel Lysons contains an extensive glossary of English words that are derived from Hebrew roots.

......The Word The Dictionary That Reveals The Hebrew Source Of English, by Isaac E. Mozesonn which contains an extensive glossary of English words that are derived from Hebrew roots.

.....Suggestions on the Ancient Britons, (1864), Barber.

.....Quarterly Magazine and Celtic Repertory, July 2nd, 1832, No. 15, Vol. IV, article "Welsh Hebrewisms," by Glas, (From British History Traced...Roberts; p. 32)

.....Welsh Grammar, Dr. Davies.

.....Further evidence for the fact that that the Welsh and Hebrew languages are identical and further proof that the Welsh, (as well as the other caucasian tribes), are Israelites can be found in the Welsh Triads, the records of the ancient Druid religion, (which is identical itself with the pure Hebrew worship of YHVH, (Ya-Ho-VeH), as is the ancient Celtic religion). For more information along these lines, also consult: Celt, Druid and Culdee, (1973), by Isabel Hill Elder; Celtic Fire, (1990), by Bishop Robert VandeWeyer; The Dooms of Alfred the Great, The Drama of the Lost Disciples (1961) by George F. Jowett; Prehistoric London, (1914) by E.O. Gordon; Stonehenge and Druidism, (1979) by E. Raymond Capt; Tracing Our Ancestors, (1934) by Frederick Haberman; The Traditions of Glastonbury, (1983) by E. Raymond Capt; and St. Paul in Britain, (1860), by Richard Williams Morgan...

.....Now; this should be sufficient to silence the nonsense of my assertions being of an invalid nature, (although, I am quite certain it will not)... I notice that those who tend to “throw their lot in with those who stand against me”, typically do so, sans the first shred of evidence, with much bluster of “great scholars” that maintain otherwise; funny they always fail to materialize... the truth of the matter is that the “jewish” communists, so successful, to date, are losing the veil of secrecy they’ve managed to hide behind for so long and cannot allow the facts to be known, that the people of the caucasian race are the Israelites of Scripture, (which lineage/inheritance they falsely claim for themselves), and that they are the seed of the serpent” from Genesis, 3:15, which is fully borne out by both Scripture, and History; if the above references are not enough to send an individual chasing this “rabbit” down the hole, I’m afraid you will remain, as Scripture declares, “blind and naked and wretched and thirsty”, (paraphrasing), and ignorant of that fact, as well, inspite of me telling you...

”No - even if your parents chained you to a radiator, or made you live in the closet, or referred to your genitals as “the bad thing” while washing you, English remains part of the Germanic branch of Indo-European languages.”

Wintermute...

.....Thank you so much for such an “uplifting reference”; please spare me your elevation of the conversation to the next logical level of scatological “humor”... Is this ridicule and hand-waving the best you have to offer on these matters? I’ve given you repeated opportunity to offer a valid rebuttal, which, to date, you have yet to appear; looking “good”, though... ;)

.....No one disputes the fact that it is derived of the Germanic... the trouble is, you simply aren’t going back far enough; from whence comes said “Germanic”? Hint: the answer is above...

Zoroaster

2003-08-04 15:41 | User Profile

The lunatic won't change his mind and can't change the subject.

-Z-

Patrick

2003-08-04 16:21 | User Profile

"The lunatic won't change his mind and can't change the subject."

Ahem...

.....What is the title of the thread, there, genius? You are as void as your little brother, Wintermute... If either of you had valid rebuttal, I'm sure we'd have seen it by now; just more of your name-calling and other such childish nonsense... Sixty-four years old, eh? Perhaps if you were to increase your meds...

Zoroaster

2003-08-04 16:55 | User Profile

I'm probably old enough to be your father, killer. If I had been your father, you would not be behaving like a spoiled, spiteful, screaming child on a public forum.

You ought to visit a talking doctor before you do yourself or others serious harm.

-Z-

Patrick

2003-08-04 17:18 | User Profile

”I’m probably old enough to be your father, killer. If I had been your father, you would not be behaving like a spoiled, spiteful, screaming child on a public forum.”

As expected...

.....Another fine rebuttal; you certainly don’t act old enough to be my Father... Namecalling with this “killer” nonsense; saying it is I that is behaving as a “spoiled, spiteful, screaming child” while calling names and offering nothing else in return, save your sorry version Christian-bashing, when it is more than a little obvious that you have not the first clue about that which you speak...

.....I post quotes form learned scholars, and you call me names; wonder what you’ll do for an encore, youngster... you’re doing really well at making yourself look like the self-professing fool that you are, (by definition, Scripturally speaking, of course); I anxiously await your next syllable... :lol:

Nagelfar

2003-08-04 21:15 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Patrick@Aug 4 2003, 08:59 * **

.....The “academic community” has proven itself unreliable in many endeavors by virtue of their “jewish” communist agenda; further, that you would declare that this exists only in the “sphere of Christian zionism” illustrates that you either have no concept of that which the Robertson/Falwell/Haggi crew puts forth in their false “Christian zionism” nonsense, as they certainly do not put forth the scholars cited above, which are not as easily dismissed as you seem apt to do with your hand-waving... **

it would be nice to see some language example correlations. I personally, do not need them. as I have Calvert Watkins' dictionary of Indo-European roots, two Oxford University press books on Anglo-Saxon glosses (the oldest form of English) by the renownd Henry Sweet. as well as a Bantam Megiddo Hebrew-English dictionary. two books on general etymology & roots of the modern English language. etc. I do not need opinion and theories to see that the actual words have arisen from different sources, as they have no similiarity (the most archaic Hebrew & the earliest forms of English)

however, as I see no harm in letting everyone who holds to the convictions you have come together in a 'meeting of the minds' as to try to make anything & everying out of whatever you wish to see in it, here's a site that might interest you:

[url=http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93783/index.html]http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93783/index.html[/url]

run by a Swedish individual, it claims the runic languages of the oldest runestones in Scandinavia, are in-fact written in ancient Semitic.

also, if you notice, I responded a bit of my own in the guestbook nearly a year ago (linked at the upper left part of the screen) with my own amazing discovery which I thought the website maintainer might find interesting too. I found that the Bible was infact written in an early form of Old Norse! I'll quote it here for you as well.

** Date: 2002-10-13 00:24:26 Nagelfar ( no email / no homepage) wrote:

the bible was really the sacred scripture of Thor! it begins by telling us that Thor's beard had the same properties of his wife Sif's hair. just look! taking only the proto-germanic cognates out of indo-european this what you come up with, first let me include the original hebrew that everyone thought it was:

Genesis 1:1 (in hebrew) Bree'shiyt baaraa' 'Elohiym 'eet hashaamayim w'eet haa'aarets.

Genesis 1:1 (in indo-european) Bhreus-at bharða, elleuðum, eti hesenaiwum wet haiarerets

(translation of IE) to his breast was the length of his beard, red-brown it grew. beyond (earthly) harvest was its vital force, to allow the plow to sow.

From the american heritage dictionary of indo-european by calvert watkins:

"bhreus" is related to old english 'breost' old french 'broust', and danish 'bryske'

"at" is related to the germanic and latin source concieved as "the period gone through", latin 'annus'

"bharða" is related to old english 'beard', germanic 'bardaz', and latin 'barba'

"el-leuðum" is from 'el' that is related to german 'gelb' yellow but in older times red-brown. old norse 'elgr' an elk, and old english 'elm' both denoting color. 'leuð' is related to old high german 'liut' to mount up, grow, and latin 'liber'. 'um' is the proper tense suffix

"eti" 'above, beyond', is related to old norse 'iða', a countercurrent and from germanic 'ith' a second time, again.

"(h)esen-" means a harvest or fall, related to old english 'earnian' to serve, gain wages, and germanic 'aznon', to do harvest work.

"-aiw-um" means vital life force, or eternity. from old english 'awiht', old norse 'ei', modern english 'ever', latin 'aeternus'. 'um' is again suffix

"wet" means activity or inspiration, to spiritually arouse. from old english 'wod', modern german 'wut'; from Wotan/Odin.

"(h)ai-" means to give, or allot, related to modern english 'diet'

"-ar(e)-" [the "e" being the turned & reversed kind I have no character for typing.] means to plow, from latin 'arare', and modern english 'arable'

"-ret" means 'up from under', a 'pursuit', and is related to old irish 'toir', and modern english 'rodeo'. the "s" is the proper suffix for connection to previous word.**

without semantics; anything can be done.

Patrick

2003-08-04 21:28 | User Profile

"it would be nice to see some language example correlations"

.....Give me a bit of time to round them up...

Patrick

2003-08-05 03:35 | User Profile

"YOU ARE A LIAR."

And you, "sir"...

.....And I use the term quite loosely, are not only incapable of rational discourse, you are but an half a step from "beneath contempt"; this:

"Instead of providing volumes of evidence that Jefferson was not a deist, you relied on Soujouner to provide three pages of his letters, which themselves only proved him a Deist. Hence on both scores you willfully propound a lie."

.....I had said, required a foundational knowledge that you obviously did not possess; you are certainly free to believe any nonsense you wish; that, however, does not give license to refer to your opposition as a "liar"... I will stand upon my earlier statement that the first ones to condemn another as such, are liars themselves; that would be you...

"Since discussion with your type is impossible, I advise the curious or undecided to investigate that matter themselves. If you have access to Google, the answer is only a few seconds away."

.....How is it you could possibly know that discussion with another is impossible without having so attempted? Are you going to begin anytime soon? As I said, I have given you every opportunity for rebuttal, of which, you have proven wholly incapable, resorting instead, to childish name-calling and ad hominem attack; are you so stupid as to believe the reader here as incapable as yourself?

"Two centuries of honest effort are dismissed by you as 'communism'"

.....Again, you seem incapable of grasping the enormity of the effort expended in corrupting the knowledge of your people; indeed, you have illustrated fully that it has you under sway... the latter century's effort, particularly, could be referred to as a great number of things, but "honest", is not one of them...

"You may spend hours there profitably comparing Sanskrit, Latin, Greek, and German to Phonecian, Arabic, and Hebrew. I invite everyone reading this to go and look for yourself."

.....One cannot send someone to a mere dictionary, expecting them to understand the point, (?), you attempt to make; make your case in implicit fashion, or further confirm the bankruptcy of your errant position...

"In fact, I find your posts so offensive, I will double down on the original charge. I have never liked the Christian habit of denying or demeaning their own ancestors on behalf of the Jews - the People of the Lie. "

.....Nor have I, (and I assure you, I find your efforts at posting half again as offensive); I submit that you know not your own ancestors, nor your inheritance, (should you prove caucasian, of which, I have very serious doubt, at this point); I do nothing "on behalf of the 'jews'" with my posting, but you, in your abject ignorance, know not even the rudimentary understanding that "jew" and "Israelite" are not, in the least, synonymous... I fully understand that they are, not only "the people of the lie", but "the people of the curse"; you, as an individual that froths at the mouth about matters you know not, fail on even the twigs, much less the trees, thus, the forest completely eludes you...

"Denying your own ancestry completely, and going farther to deny the ancestry of the Jews, is to base your whole Being and History on willfully falsified and easily disproved data."

.....Forgive me for pointing this out, but this sentence, is incomprehensible, as written; further, I have given you ample opportunity to disprove any data, which, in your bankrupted state, can only counter with further ad hom... you insult the intelligence of every poster on this forum; explain, in detail, what a "jew" is, and what an "Israelite" is... short of that, shut up... :)

"However much you wish to be a Jew, Patrick, you will never become one."

.....While I am hesitant to suggest that you must be on crack, I find little other option to conclude how you arrive at such a stupid statement, (perhaps you're just stupid?); either you are playing dumb here for the crowd, or you are hoping they would somehow be dumb enough to find the least bit of merit in your words... I don't even wish to determine which...

"In your heart, you know that this is true. Hence the desperation which animates your false histories."

.....Attempting to describe a "desperation" which, I assure you, is non-existent, shows desperation on your part; you're not going to set your hair on fire next, are you? Should I go for the extinguisher for you?

.....As confused as Mr. Paine was on this particular point, I can certainly see why it is you would call upon him for witness; he lost his faith over this very point... shame he denied his powers of observation...

P.S.

.....I do hope you notice that I had no need of calling you an "a$$hole"... :)

Patrick

2003-08-05 14:19 | User Profile

Very well, then...

.....”Beneath contempt”, it is... :)

"You and I are beyond rational discourse here."

.....Speak for yourself... :lol:

”Which is to say, one cannot understand the admirably plain words of Thomas Jefferson without prior study of the works of L. Ron Hubbard.”

.....I don’t belief anyone made citation of Dianetics here, or Hubbard, for that matter; are you implying that Hubbard is affiliated with the site referenced with Mr. Jefferson’s writings, taken from the Univesity of Virginia’s library? Is this just your attempt at red herring?

”You have already lied about there being ‘volumes of evidence’ against Jefferson’s Deism”

.....I would imagine I am handicapped by not being “educated” right on past my intellect, as you; funny me... when Mr. Jefferson states, unequivocally, “I am a true Christian”, I should have known that would actually “translate” to “I am a deist”; I bow to your abilities to comprehend another’s written word so well as to deny their content and avail to us your superior perception to know, and share with us, the “true” meaning... which “school” taught you that, exactly? :rolleyes:

”My rebuttal is already posted.”

.....Gee; I must have missed it... either that, or, it wasn’t worth any more than the nonsense I am presently responding to...

”I do believe that the information sources you present are corrupt, and that you have displayed mendacious intent in your handling of historical sources.”

.....You’ve certainly displayed an uncanny ability to believe a goodly number of other silly things besides, as well; at least one of us is even handling some evidence...

”As to readers here being ‘incapable’, I have a greater faith in their ability to process information than you do. Hence my clear conscience in sending them off to examine Jefferson on their own, or the roots of Indo-European languages by themselves.”

.....You’re a riot; you’ve produced zero evidence, to date, save a stupid vaguery by sending people to a dictionary... You’ve attempted, albeit, very poorly, to tell me that Mr. Jefferson’s plainly written speech means something other than his words convey, then blow smoke for cover; you deny scholarship while producing none that would bolster your non-position, then attempt to besmirch not only my integrity, but to create a guilt-by-association by attaching me to an organization, which you refer to as a cult, that I do not, and have never ascribed to...

”You won’t see me shouting after them, as you do, that they must first read Dianetics or Science and Health with a Key to the Scriptures. It is my belief that linguistics and history have a prior claim over your cult’s special texts.”

.....Batting a thousand today, aren’t you; I have never sent anyone to either of these works you claim, nor have I read them myself...

”I do not insult the intelligence of reader’s intelligence here, not even your own.”

.....You even insult me with your inability to master simple sentence structure; did you incorporate the redundancy in an effort to bedazzle me to boot?

”Rather, I accuse you, on moral grounds, of falsifying the historical record.”

.....Since you are an atheist, I see no moral leg upon which you may stand; you lack grounding of any sort, save, possibly, your talmud... who is it you atheists talk to when having sex?

”One, that there are no “volumes of evidence” against Jefferson’s deism, as you falsely assert.”

.....Your failure to acknowledge does nothing to their existence...

”Two, that Jefferson was a Deist, and that every person who has studied his life - with the notable exception of Christian Identity persons - has come to the same conclusion on this matter. The CI reading of Jefferson is based on willful falsification of data and denial of context, and hence is a lie. Thus, your own claim that Jefferson was not a Deist is a lie.”

.....Horsespit, youngster; the only people that have arrived at such a wayward conclusion, are the “jewish” communists, and their dupes; which were you, again?

”Three, that Afro-Asiatic languages and Indo-European languages trace their ancestry in different ways, and that a simple check of the root structures of the various languages involved will reveal this. Readers may do this for themselves, without the aid of L. Ron Hubbard or Mary Baker Eddy, at the link I gave above. Why are you so anxious to keep readers from examining data for themselves? Are you not making quota for this month?”

.....Certainly; all knowledge is contained in a single dictionary... :rolleyes:

”Paine was a man who loved liberty and hated charlatans and frauds of every kind. There being no common ground between you, he easily elides your understanding.”

.....Actually, the only thing that “elides” my understanding, is how you could possibly consider that a single soul would take you seriously; perhaps if you laid down the horn, and refrained from wearing that red ball on your nose... :lol:

Zoroaster

2003-08-05 14:28 | User Profile

Wintermute, here's another way to look at it:

Lying has a kind of respect and reverence with it.

Patrick, or killer as I call him, pays you the compliment of acknowledging your superiority whenever he lies to you.

-Z-

Patrick

2003-08-05 14:37 | User Profile

Ah yes...

.....We hear form the other member of the dynamic duo of duplicity; Wintermutant, and Sorea$$ make a great team...

Patrick

2003-08-05 18:30 | User Profile

"it would be nice to see some language example correlations."

Here you go...

.....I apologize for my inability to create a table here; perhaps I’ll master the task in the future...Due to popular demand, a table of Hebrew and English word comparisons was prepared to be rushed to the market...

.....This particular table was drawn from the book by E. Raymond Capt, M.A., A.I.A.,F.S.A., Scot, "Missing Links Discovered", printed in 1985. The citation given for this particular table is "God's Covenant Man" by Professor Edward Odlum, 1916. This particular table contains over 130 word comparison of the two languages. For those wanting more, I'd recommend obtaining Odlum's work, or perhaps checking on the internet. The time that this comparison was made was in 1916.

.....In 1916 A.D., Professor Edward Odlum, M.A., B.Sc., F.R.C. Inst., published the results of his years of research on the relationship of the Anglo-Saxon people with the ancient Ten-tribed House of Israel. His studies covered the relationship between Hebrew and the present Anglo-Saxon language. The following is a list of words showing the Hebrew origin of English or Saxon words: (Taken from ‘God’s Covenant Man’ – Professor Edward Odlum, 1916).

English Hebrew Varied Meanings

Bashful, abash Baash Abashed, uncomfortable, abhorred

Rabble Rab Rable, rout, multitude

Cipher Saphar To count or cipher, as in arithmetic

Sake Sakan Profit, for the sake of

Sore Tsur Distress, Soreness

Sorrow Tsarar Sorrow, inflicted with trouble

Shiver Sheber Shiver, break, shiver my timbers

Puke Pook To puke, put out

Chill Chil Pained, chilled, made uncomfortable

Rash Raash To be angry, to rage

Ahah Ahah Ahah, an exclamation of surprise

Terrible Teruah A battle shout, awful, terrible

Mellow Melo Mellow, ripe, fullness, maturity

Bad Bad Alone, cut off from others, separate, bad in state

Hollow Holhul Empty, hollow

Cane Cana Cane, reed, coarse grass

Direct Derek Right, straight, direct

Call Kol Voice, shout, call

Room Rum Make tall, a space, enlargement

Shame Shamen Amazed, astounded, shamed

Mar Mar Bitter, spoiled, marred

Char Charah To burn char, as in charcoal

Suck Suk To draw out, as to suck

Keel Keli vessel, a ship, as twenty keel

Ruts, or rut Rutz Rut, runner, run

Cover Kaphar, kafar To cover

Sum Sum Total, count, as to sum

Urge Ur To push, press, stir up

Reckon Arak To array, set in order, count, reckon

Calamity Kalam Agitation, calamity, excite

Dumb Dahm, dohm Dumb, silent

Bar Barzel Iron, iron bar, or bar-iron, barrel of gun

Raven, ravages Ravah To satiate, to raven or ravage

In In In, within, inside

Carats Carats Best gold, carats, a standard for diamond

Shoo Shua To shout, to say shoo, to chase

Ceres Keres Cereals, beaten out grain

Sure Shur To see, examine, make sure, be sure

Nod Nud To nod, to approve

British Brit a covenant Man of the covenant

Holiday Hulledeth A holiday, or birthday

Halleluiah Halal To rejoice, to praise, to shout in song

Amass Amas To amass, or increase

Berry Perl Fruit, berry, pear

Harass Haras Destroy, worry, harass

No No Disallow, annul, to say no

Horrid Orits, or arats Terrify, make terrible, or horrid

Ore Or Horizon, light, shining metal as zinc ore, orange

Angle Angl Bull, as Tauras a bull, John Bull

Mote Motz Chaff, dust, as cast out the mote

Earth Eretz Land, earth

Ad Ad Till, until, up to, as in adjoin, attain, adept

Nag Naga To smite, plague, worry, nag

Yesh Esh, or yesh Yes, to say yes

Hurrah Ruah To shout, to call out, sign of triumph

Soothe Suth To persuade, soothe

Sack Saq To persuade, soothe

Satin Sadin Cloth, garments, linen cloth

Shekel Shekel Money, as a shekel

Push Poosh Scatter, push, rout

Anglesey Angl A bull, and ey an island

Ely El God, and y or ey an island

Hebride Heber The Hebrew, and e or ey an island

Guernsey Gur To sojourn, and ey an island

Perish Parash Scattered, routed, lost, perished

Oath Oth An oath, a sign, a testimony, an agreement

Din Din Strife, noise, din

Pen Pen An enclosure, as sheep-pen

Ramify Ramas To creep, or ramify

Put Putz To scatter, to put to flight, push

Hum Hum To move, to make things move, or hum

Mal Maal To trespass, mal-administer, malady

Raid Radah To tread down, to raid, destroy

Mirror Marah Looking-glass, mirror

Pass Pasa To step, go, go apart, pass

Shut Shut To go to and fro, to close

Cave Kaph Hollow, as a cave

Bat Baat Kick, strike, as I will give you a bat

Chore Chor Work, as to do the chores

Hug Ug To squeeze, press; the English say hug to this day

Bore Boar, Baar To bore, or dig

Bag Bag Booty, as, he secured a rich bag, or haul

Bad Bad To prate, to lie, to be a liar, bad

Bedeck Bedeck To repair, to ornament, bedeck

Booth Bothe To pass the night in a tent or booth

Batter, or bat Batsah To destroy or batter

Bolt Bala To swallow, as bolt his dinner in a hurry

Band Banat To band, or to made a band

Bear Baar Brutish, stupid, coarse, as bearish

Barley Bar Corn, as in barley

Break Barach To beak

Broth Baroth Food, broth, or soup

Balsam Basam To smell sweet, with a sweet odour as balsam

Bath Bath A measure for liquids

Camel Gamal The camel

Gay Ga Elated, proud, puffed up, gay

Gosling Gozal A young bird, as a gosling

Gush Gush, or goosh To pour out, as to gush

Gala Gal Exultation, a gala-day, a day to rejoice in

Clad Galad To cover, as clad

Congeal, gelid Gilaid To be hard, to become solid, jelly

Gargle Gargareth Throat, gullet, to gargle the throat

Crash Garash To crush, or to crash

Grip Garaph To grip, seize, snatch

Dote Dot To love, to dote upon

Britannia Brit a covenant, and annia a ship The ship covenant

Down Doon To press, tread, to be down

Endure Door (Doore) To dwell, as to dwell within, to endure

Door Dor (long o) To swing to and fro, hence the thing that swings

Dyke Dayik, or dayaik To dyke or mound

Deacon Dekon A registrar, or one who registers

Delicate Delaketh Weak, sick, feverish

Damask Damesk A kind of silk damask

Dagger Dakar To stab, hence the thing that stabs (dagger)

Thrash Darash To beat, or thrash

Ebony Eben, or habeny As ebony wood

Hag Hagah To mutter, one who mutters, a hag

Adore Hadar To honour, reverence, adore

Haze Haza To dream, to be in a haze

Hin Hin A measure

Lad Galad To bear, to beget, as to bear a lad, or child

Sud, or suds Zud, or zood To boil, bubble, hence suds

Contaminate Tamah Unclean, contaminated

Contain Tanah To enclose, contain

Yell Yelail To yell, or cry out

Caddy Kad A chest, pail, box

Come Kum To advance, join, as come here

Calcine Kalal To kindle, burn, to calcine

Gnaw Knaw To bite, sting, gnaw

Knee Kanah To bend, to kneel

Cap Kapis A tie, cross-beam, a tie-cap as in building

Car Kar Lamb, ram, battering-ram, the machine or car, or wheeled machine for battering down a wall or building

Grab Karab To grab, grip, grasp

Circus Karak Circle, surround

Carmine Karmile Red, crimson

Carpet Karpas Cotton-stuff

Career Karar To go around, dance, roll, turn, career

Cotton Kuttoneth Cotton, flax, linen

Succatash Katash To bray, grind, pound, prepare grain by braying

.....Of course, there is much more; along with much more background information... I've provided a number of reference books that could be sought out by a person of bona-fide interest; as always, protestations of the antiChrist element notwithstanding... :)

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-05 19:38 | User Profile

Please date the coming-into-use of these words in English.

Patrick

2003-08-05 20:38 | User Profile

.....I think we can all easily agree that the ancient British is Welsh, so let us begin there, particularly with who, exactly those Welsh were; I likewise have a table on the Welsh words that shows a close relationship with the Hebrew... The difficulty here, I believe, is that certain among the posters here, if not the majority, have been taught to confuse the term “jew”, with other terms, such as “Hebrew” and “Israelite”; this is simply not borne out by the facts of the matter, and you are predicating your thoughts upon the lies from antiChrist, which they rely upon as a means of keeping the masses in Babylon, (confusion); once you realize that “jew” is the very antithesis of Israelite, you’ll go far in shaking off the deleterious effects of their lies in this regard...

.....This will begin to establish the earlier dates, NeoNitzsche, and I will continue to look for more data with which to pinpoint the dates you seek, so please have patience... Essentially, however, it was simply a melding of the Hebrew into the ancient tongue of the British, (translates to “Covenant Man”, while “Britain”, translates to “”Covenant Nation”), which was the Welsh...

.....From E. Raymond Capt’s book “Missing Links Discovered”, pgs. 187-198:

.....All etymologists know that the Greek, Latin, German, Icelandic, Norse, Danish, Dutch and several other languages figure in the structure and vocabulary of the present Anglo-Saxon (English) language. While Greek and Latin words have contributed to the English language, over 75 per cent of English words come direct from Hebrew words or their roots. Of course, many of these old British words are used in modern dress; their spelling, and even the pronunciations, have been varied as time has passed.

.....In 1916 A.D., Professor Edward Odlum, M.A., B.Sc., F.R.C. Inst., published the results of his years of research on the relationship of the Anglo-Saxon people with the ancient Ten-tribed House of Israel. His studies covered the relationship between Hebrew and the present Anglo-Saxon language, (Taken from ‘God’s Covenant Man’ – Professor Edward Odlum, 1916). . . .

.....Several other scholars have noted the extraordinary affinity between the Hebrew and the Welsh languages. Dr. Davies, in his ‘Welsh Grammar’ tells us that almost every page of the Welsh translation of the Bible is replete with Hebraisms, in the time, sense and spirit of the original. Another authority, Dr. Duncan M’Dougall, writing in the Evangelical Christian, says: “You can take any sentence in Hebrew and change it into Gaelic, word for word, without altering the order of a single word or particle, and you will have the correct Gaelic idiom in every case. You cannot do that with any other language in Europe.” (Quoted by Colquhous in ‘Our Descent from Israel’, 1931)

.....Rev. Eliezer Williams, (born 1754), Vicar of Lampeter, Britain, and a chaplain in Britain’s Royal Navy, is noted as a researcher and prolific writer on ancient Celtic tribes. He wrote the following: “Scarcely a Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivation in the ancient British language . . . In Richard’s Welsh and English Dictionary, (published in Bristol in 1750), and in several other philological works, the affinity the Welsh bears to the Hebrew language is strenuously maintained. But not only do the words themselves indicate that similarity between the two; their variations and inflexions afford a much stronger proof of affinity.”

.....Welsh scholars and writers of early days also noticed a remarkably close resemblance and connection between the ancient British, (Welsh), and the Hebrew language. In some unaccountable way, (?-Patrick), these early studies received little attention by modern Bible scholars. We will examine a few words to show how closely the Hebrew and the Welsh languages resemble each other, both in sound and sense, leaving no doubt to the Eastern descent of the Celts. Many of the words, it will be seen, have been transmitted into our modern English. (Taken from ‘British History Traced from Egypt and Palestine’ – Rev. L.G.A. Roberts, Com. R.N., 1927) . . .

.....But it is not in single, isolated words only that this resemblance strikes us; the conformity is equally remarkable in the idiomatic phrases of both languages, and in the formation of entire sentences, as can be seen. (Taken from ‘Hanes y Fydd,’ – Charles Edwards, a Welsh writer of the 16th [my note: should read 17th I think] century, printed in 1675)

.....It is evident that the Hebrew formed a very important part of the language of Britain. If so, how did the early inhabitants of Britain come to use that language? The only logical answer is that they were Hebrews. The first arrivals to the “Tin Islands,” the Tyrians and Phoenicians, who came seeking tin, lead, silver and iron, spoke an early form of Hebrew. The Milesians and Dannans, (Danaan, Danai of the Tribe of Dan), spoke Hebrew. The latest arrivals who came from the headwaters of the Euphrates, (where the Assyrians had placed their ancestors around 721 B.C.), certainly carried with them some form of their native tongue.

.....There are those who raise an objection to the idea that Hebrews carried the Hebrew language into Britain, to an extent so vast as to form the foundation of the ancient British tongue, as well as to furnish an immense number of words to the modern English. The objection is that Israel was carried into Assyrian captivity over 700 years before Christ, and therefore in the hundreds of years of exile they would lose their own language. And if they ever did migrate to Europe and Britain they would have little of the Hebrew tongue, but would rather have the language of their conquerors or that of the people with whom they mixed for long ages. The result would give them a new or mongrel language.

.....It is reasonable to assume that in their exile and long migrations afterwards they would change their tongue to some extent. The “extent” would depend largely on the differences of the Hebrew, the Assyrian and European languages with which they would be forced to come in contact. A study of the languages of the various people the Israelites would have had contact with answers the objections.

.....We know that Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldea, and therefore his tongue would have been of that people of that country. He was a Chaldean of the line traced down from Heber, the father of the Hebrews. From Heber and his kinsman, Lot, came Israel, Judah, Moab, Ammon, Midian, Edom, Ishmael and other Hebrews who spoke Chaldean, Babylonian or Assyrian. Abraham, Sarah, Lot, Terah, Nahor and all their people doubtless spoke the same language which was common to the Assyrian and the mixed and adjoining nations, tribes and communities.

.....When the Israelites went into exile among the Assyrians (who were also of the same racial roots as Abraham), they would have found so much still in common to both languages that they could readily converse. The Scriptures relate how they were able to talk in a common tongue before the besieged walls of Jerusalem. Later, when the Israelites escaped from exile, they must have had the old foundation language, which we call “Hebrew.”

.....Evidence of the close connection and a great similarity existing between the Hebrew and Assyrian languages can be seen . . . (Taken from ‘God’s Covenant Man’ – Professor Edward Odlum, 1926)

.....Beale Poste, in his ‘Celtic Inscriptions on Gaulish and British Coins, (p. 148), says: “With respect to the derivation of the Welsh language from Oriental sources, there is so much admixture of the Hebrew in several ancient languages that Rowlands, in his ‘Mona Antiqua’ pp. 316 and 317, with somewhat too great a dilation of his views, it must be confessed, might almost be said to regard it as his mother tongue, and the Welsh to be an immediate derivation from it . . . A foreign savant pronounced some years ago that it, (the English), comprised within its compass six thousand pure Hebrew words.”

.....As the Israelites migrated westward from the lands of their captivities, there is no doubt they passed through and somewhat mixed with other peoples from whom they would have added considerably to their vocabulary, sometimes pushing out old words to make room for new words added. Hence, we would expect some changes to take place while the old mother-tongue remained as the prime foundation. However, let us consider the people with whom the migrating Israelites would have come into contact.

.....The Greeks and the Trojans were both of Hebrew descent. Likewise, the Ionians, Dorians, Attics, Lacedaemoneans and Macedonians were either Israelites or intimately connected with them. Therefore, as the Israelites were among kindred people or blood brethren, their languages would have much in common. Any changes or basic modifications would be slight, and must have been brought about very slowly and imperceptibly. They would, however, have added a larger list of foreign words (foreign to Hebrew) than their predecessors who went direct from Palestine to the British Isles by ships.

.....These earlier Hebrews in Britain settled in Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, Isle of Manx and the south-west coasts of Scotland, beginning about the days of King Solomon. Before the Assyrian captivity of Israel, other Israelites followed direct by ships and joined their brethren in the British Isles. This second wave of immigrants carried with them their own Hebrew tongue, and, of course, they found it, (to be), the language of those who had preceded them. Thus we naturally find where the earlier immigrants settled (Cornwall, Wales, etc.) the ancient languages are more closely related to Hebrew.

.....Admittedly, the “link” of language is only collaborating evidence of the connection between the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and kindred peoples, to the Israelite or Hebrew people of the Old Testament. Since the Assyrians, Babylonians, Ammonites, Moabites, Edomites, Ishmaelites and Midianites had languages very similar to the Hebrew, one might postulate their presence in Britain as explanatory of the Hebrew words found in the English language. Regardless of this possibility, it is soon eliminated by a study of the Bible prophecies concerning Israel fulfilled only in the western European and British peoples and their kinsmen. . . .

.....It was in God’s great plan that Israel was to lose the knowledge of their origin. This could not have taken place had Israel retained their language. ”For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to his people.”, (Isa. 28:11), Therefore, their Hebrew language had to be replaced with other tongues. But, according to the findings of modern ethnologists there is not that great difference between the Hebrew and Saxon tongue as is generally supposed. These findings are helping to remove the veil of mystery surrounding the fate of the Lost Tribes of Israel, (and yes, these were the selfsame “pagan” caucasians to whom many of you refer, as they were “fallen away”, Scripturally speaking-Patrick)...

Zoroaster

2003-08-05 21:00 | User Profile

All great blasphemies spread from the Bible.

-Z-

Patrick

2003-08-05 21:03 | User Profile

"All great blasphemies spread from the Bible."

Zorro...

..... If that is truly the best you would have to offer on this topic, why do you not simply admit that you are completely unversed in the subject at hand, and refrain from any further one-liners? Are you some manner of Jackie Mason wannabe?

Zoroaster

2003-08-05 23:04 | User Profile

Your cut and paste spasms that bend, fuse, and distort the science of language to your own purpose leave me at a loss for words. Your efforts to appear scholary are more like someone going into psychotic denial when faced with unpleasant facts.

Your CI nonsense insults white folks. The sources you quote are hardly renown in academic circles. They are either seriously out of date, or crackpots who got that way from reading the Bible too long.

-Z-

Avalanche

2003-08-06 03:42 | User Profile

** IAH:  What we have today is a somewhat corrupted text to depend on due to those "scribes", or as Christ called them, vipers. ** Just WHEN are you suggesting “the “jews” crept in unawares twisting scripture”: BEFORE or AFTER Jefferson read it?! Just what “bible” was Jefferson reading and how was it different from the one you claim today to have been twisted by the jews? What was he basing his thoughts on – the twisted or untwisted version of the bible, and how are we to tell? (You say the King James was jew-tainted, and yet was that not Jefferson’s bible?)

** Where do you think Christian principals come from? From God's instructions, His Word.** Before or after the jews twisted it?

** Talk to Him in a respectful (called “fear” in the Bible but means in awe of and respect) and humble manner.] And later: “Then Paul says "and ye that fear God". This word "fear" in the Greek (which is what this was written in) means: "phobeo̅ ", by analogy to be in awe of, to revere.”** On what basis do you “translate” the word fear into awe and respect? How do you separate out your ‘correct’ meanings of words from the jew-twisted versions? What translation, by which translator(s), do you hold as correct – and how can you determine what changes in the original text have been made in the last 2000 years, by those organized religions you deprecate?

Your message about content and differentiating Christians from jews is quite interesting. It is certainly a preferable version of the source of Christianity BECAUSE it removes the "jews"! However, I still want to discuss it differently. I’m not trying to discuss content so much as form, and the modifications to that form over a couple thousand years and HUGE numbers of very documented ‘tamperings’ by folks who may or may not have an axe to grind! You make the bible the basis for your thesis, and yet you don’t seem willing to address my questions ABOUT the Bible that are external to the bible.

Let’s go back yet again to Orebim/Orabim – do you think it was ravens feeding Elijah or the inhabitants of the local-to-Elijah’s-wanderings town of Oreb? How do you make that determination? Where was the hand of god – in the writing? In the picking of the vowels to insert? (The inserter of vowels (the translator!) picked the vowels that made birds bring him food. Is that reasonable? Is that likely to have been a mistake or an attempt to impress the gullible? How do you determine whether the picked vowels in just this ONE example are 'twisting' or not? How many other times have such choices been made and how do you determine whether the right or wrong choice was made?

{shrug} Same with the Nicene Council -- they voted to keep some books and dump others. How much do you trust their judgement? How can you determine which of the books relegated to the apocrypha SHOULD have been kept, as they accurately represented Jesus' words; and how many that did NOT accurately reflect his words were voted INTO the Bible you revere and use as your source? And how can you tell? (That is, on what logical basis, beyond "well this sounds like something I prefer to believe Jesus would have said, and therefore I accept it as his words.")

** The Talmud consists of 63 books in 524 chapters and is regularly printed in 18 bulky volumes. “Rabbis” wrote it between 200AD and 500AD. ** So that means the Talmud and “jews” are NOT Khazar? Or they are? I’m confused about this: a seemingly big objection to “the jews’ is that they are NOT israelites; they’re a mongol/hun-type tribe that CHOOSE judaism. And yet you’re saying the “jews’ came into existence at the close of Babylonian captivity. How do these connect?

And please don’t just quote this: > ** "jews" (aka Askenazi jews) and are not descendants of Shem. "jews" are NOT Semites, Hebrews, Israelites, nor Judahites. By their own admission, 90% or more of modern Jewry is ASHKENAZI, according to their Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1980 Jewish Almanac, and other “jewish” sources. ** Because it doesn’t answer the question. Maybe I just couldn’t figure out your family-flow diagrams, but you (seem to) have the khazars being the ‘bible-twisters’ and people of the Talmud, and yet if they were hanging out in over near “Russia,” how were they involved in the writing of the talmud?

Patrick

2003-08-06 05:00 | User Profile

"Your cut and paste spasms that bend, fuse, and distort the science of language to your own purpose leave me at a loss for words. Your efforts to appear scholary are more like someone going into psychotic denial when faced with unpleasant facts."

.....You cut and paste nothing, nor offer the first original thought on any of this; you distort the science of reason, and your idiot railing against that which you fail to understand amounts to something less than buffoonery... Your efforts to besmirch one you have no idea of leaves me at a loss for words; I may well go into some manner of "psychotic denial", should you grow testicles and produce your FIRST fact, or even require nitroglycerine therapy, as I have determined you not only incapable of answering this position, but wholly unsuited to articulate any position whatsoever, (is that my left arm going numb?!)... At this point, I would welcome the most unpleasant of facts; perhaps you should visit craniumextractor.com...

"Your CI nonsense insults white folks."

.....And your failure to study the issues you wish to perpetually pi$$ and moan about, is not only insulting "white folks", but allowing, nay, assisting, in their genocide; I don't wish to be unkind here, but a whiney sixty-four year old diabetic that argues irrefutable fact that the caucasians are the Israelites of Scripture is not solving the problems of your kindred... you're perfectly content, in your poverty of understanding, to allow the "jewish" communists to continue usurping your birthright and deserved inheritance, while you simper about the one individual that is providing you an opportunity to get over your sorry self, and actually know what the problem is, whom it is that's behind it, and wtf needs to be done by our people to reclaim that which has been stolen; your answers will never reach you if you have already allowed the antiChrist poison to paralyse your powers of reason...

"The sources you quote are hardly renown in academic circles. They are either seriously out of date, or crackpots who got that way from reading the Bible too long."

.....Were that the case, you would be off your lazy behind, producing compelling evidence to the contrary; that you cannot, is hardly my problem... My scholars were writing before the agenda, to which you have succumbed, (willingly?), was in play in such force as these contemporary "educated" idiots to whom you have given your imprimature; I would sooner listen, (and validate), scholars that you consider crackpots, than the crackpots, (and "jewish" propagandists), that you rely upon, that have not read Scripture enough...

"QUOTE
IAH: What we have today is a somewhat corrupted text to depend on due to those "scribes", or as Christ called them, vipers.

"Just WHEN are you suggesting “the “jews” crept in unawares twisting scripture”: BEFORE or AFTER Jefferson read it?! Just what “bible” was Jefferson reading and how was it different from the one you claim today to have been twisted by the jews? What was he basing his thoughts on – the twisted or untwisted version of the bible, and how are we to tell? (You say the King James was jew-tainted, and yet was that not Jefferson’s bible?)"

.....While I don't presume to speak for IAH, these are easy answers, should one merely pay attention; well before Mr. Jefferson, actually... the talmud was first the "oral tradition", (tradition of the elders; that which Our Christ denounced most vehemently), that originated even before Babylon in 586 B.C., but therein refined, and written in limited fashion, to be fully codified around 500 A.D.; Mr. Jefferson, (along with many of our other founders), read Scripture in the original languages, (as I study), and knew the falsehoods hidden within the English translation, (which explains a lot, regarding the idiot "judeo"-Christian, (no such thing), zombies today mouthing cutesy phrases while oblivious to the destruction of their brethren at the hands of the antiChrist "jewish" pharisees/edomites/communists/degenerates/criminals/serpent race vermin that today have the world on its ear... The way you can tell, should you merely "crack The Book", is with a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to the Bible, which unties the lying linguistics, and allows a rational mind to see that all you've been told of Scripture is not quite true; this takes effort on one's part, so the lazy need not bother...

"QUOTE
Where do you think Christian principals come from? From God's instructions, His Word."

Before or after the jews twisted it?

.....How about "all the while"? Mr. Jefferson untied the knots; I'm a dumb artist, and I figured out how... it isn't brain surgery, but I would think the inquisitive mind would at least attempt to figure it out, before allowing some reactionary emotion to rule the day...

**QUOTE
Talk to Him in a respectful (called “fear” in the Bible but means in awe of and respect) and humble manner.] And later: “Then Paul says "and ye that fear God". This word "fear" in the Greek (which is what this was written in) means: "phobeo¯ ", by analogy to be in awe of, to revere.” **

On what basis do you “translate” the word fear into awe and respect? How do you separate out your ‘correct’ meanings of words from the jew-twisted versions? What translation, by which translator(s), do you hold as correct – and how can you determine what changes in the original text have been made in the last 2000 years, by those organized religions you deprecate?"

.....When Scripture speaks to "fear" of Our Father, it means, in the Hebrew, "revere"; the English versions rendered this "fear" for the purposes of control, but should you choose to alienate yourself from your Father instead, they are just as happy... How does it feel to know you are causing the "jew" much glee? The whoring ba'al priests that today stand in the Temple where they ought not, and sit in the seat of Moses, dispensing Law that they have turned into a bastardized "law" are today making Christians measure up to "their levels of religiousity", as opposed to admitting that our Scripture is actually the History of the caucasian race, and describing fully the Covenant with their God, YHVH, The Father of true Israel, who is at war with the "jewish" antiChrist race, as was prophesied...

"Your message about content and differentiating Christians from jews is quite interesting. It is certainly a preferable version of the source of Christianity BECAUSE it removes the "jews"! However, I still want to discuss it differently. I’m not trying to discuss content so much as form, and the modifications to that form over a couple thousand years and HUGE numbers of very documented ‘tamperings’ by folks who may or may not have an axe to grind! You make the bible the basis for your thesis, and yet you don’t seem willing to address my questions ABOUT the Bible that are external to the bible."

.....I'm sure IAH is more than willing to expound upon her most excellent post above; each and every instance of "tampering", (read: textual bastardization), is fully demonstrable, and the true History, (read His Story), is fully explainable, and better yet, verifiable by each individual, including the most stiff-necked among us... It's late this evening, but I will certainly spend time, (if I may be so presumptuous), should you merely prove sincere...

.....I'm sure by the time I look back in here tomorrow, I'll not only be treated to further posting from IAH, but a welcome dose of persecution from the idiotic peanut gallery that has manifested itself above in the form of Wintermutant, and Sorea$$... :lol:

Zoroaster

2003-08-06 11:05 | User Profile

The Bible in the hands of fanatics is poison. Those who would sell the soul of the white race to an alien tribal god and embrace the Bible as divine are merely admiring it as a monument over the grave of Western Civilization. Such wretches, spiritual cripples, really, are incapable of any higher development and will pass into oblivion.

-Z-

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-06 13:01 | User Profile

Let's have those dates of entry - otherwise the correlations are worthless - end of story.

2600

2003-08-06 14:46 | User Profile

Of course Whites are the true Israelites. Look, just check this chart. :jest:

The Normans spring straight outta the House of Judah! Who could ask for a more noble lineage? [img]http://www.angloisrael.com/images/racial.jpg[/img]

Patrick

2003-08-06 15:06 | User Profile

Thank you, 2600...

.....These others will continue to protest; their loss, (but I'll be back to address them just the same)...

golfball

2003-08-06 16:48 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Zoroaster@Aug 5 2003, 18:04 * ** .......

Your CI nonsense insults white folks. The sources you quote are hardly renown in academic circles. They are either seriously out of date, or crackpots who got that way from reading the Bible too long.

-Z- **

Spoken just like a Jew. ;)

As if Z never cuts and pastes ...... :rolleyes:

Z you ideology is retarded by your inability to examine facts. Don't worry, you are in the same group as Jews, [Main Stream]Judeo-Christians and other forms of Anti-Christ.

Patrick

2003-08-06 17:08 | User Profile

*”You repeat almost every word that I print, but there is one sentence which obviously bothers you very much.

So I wouldn’t want for you to forget it.

You will never be an heir of Abraham after the flesh.”*

Nonsense...

.....Nothing you have yet said has bothered me in the least; you imply, via your bold sentence above, that I would require a “state of becoming” to be an heir to my father Abraham... you’re quite correct, as I have no need to “become” an heir of Abraham in the flesh, as I was born such; I noticed your “title” under your handle... “Speaker for the Dead”... are you giving away a bit more of yourself than you believe others capable of discerning? I recently did a study on the “denizens of the deep”; those that Scripture refers to as “the dead”... you must be their “house negroe”...

”As for the rest of your detailed fantasies, you are free to post them without fear of interference from me. I was right to avoid a discussion with you on the origin of languages, however your tar-baby desire to spread ‘the good news’ of our Jewishness makes any communication with you a mistake.”

.....I hadn’t realized that I was in need of your “permission”, actually; and what on earth makes you so naive as to believe that you’re even capable of interfering with me? I think you have an inflated opinion of your wayward abilities; you can certainly do no damage to the truth, when you are so far from it that you couldn’t even get a glove on it... Were you not a moron, the above posts contradicting your foolish statements about my supposed “jewishness” would have an effect upon you; I am leaning toward the conclusion that it is you that is a lying “jew”, wishing to further deceive those who might otherwise take the time to understand what is being said here... I am comfortable in the knowledge that you are wholly incapable; hell, Sorea$$ seems a more competent adversary, and he’s just awful at it... you’re pathetic in your efforts; that makes you worse, yet... :lol:

*”However, I advise other readers to investigate the words of Thomas Jefferson and the history of our languages by themselves. Both are endeavors that will return, many times over, the time and effort you put into them.”[/i}

.....Let’s see; all I hear is: “blah, blah, blah, go to the dictionary and hope to find what I’m talking about, yic yic yic, Patrick is wrong and I am a ‘god’; listen to me you stupid goyim and don’t you dare put your nose in the Book he’s talking about, or we won’t be able to keep you endlessly chasing your tails in bondage any longer!” Ridicule only serves to make you look ridiculous, when you are unable to respond to the content...

”Remember that your ancestors, in a very real sense, are still alive within you, and to lie to yourself or others about their true nature is a very serious sin, one that is difficult to undo.”

.....Which is exactly why I’m calling them out of the Babylonian nonsense you wish to keep them in; how dare you even speak to the issue of “sin”? You claim to understand Scripture when all you wish to do is sow the seeds of discord among my brethren; your veiled bovine excretia betrays your motives... Otherwise, you would respond point-by-point, as a man, as opposed to some creature not yet fully able to crawl from beneath a rock; still waiting for you to address your first point, though, aren’t we?

”The real inhabitants of the British Isles spoke often of ‘The Place of Truth’, where they would expect to see each other in the Next Life. How sad they must be to see their progeny willingly demean themselves before liars, going so far as to replace their own history with that selfsame lie.”

.....You fail to even comprehend that which was meant; you and your “dead” buddies won’t be there, though... ;)

”but there are certainly consequences for abandoning your own history, and substituting that of another people, not the least of which is sharing the judgement made upon that group.”

.....Consequences you will reap, now that you have sown; I don’t believe you are genuine, however... I believe I see a “jewish” communist at work perpetuating his own lies, and hoping no one knows the difference, hence, your fondness of labelling another as a “liar” when you cannot begin to answer the argument; the first of the communist tenets is “call your enemy what you are”...

.....The balance of your blather fails to apply, as well; no point in responding to such nonsense as you attempt to parlay the application, deflecting from yourself, as you so obviously are... :)

”Let’s have those dates of entry - otherwise the correlations are worthless - end of story.”

.....Please explain how the absence of exact dates confuses you on the transition of these linguistic questions; are you asking for a date for each of the above entries? I’ll jump through just so many hoops for you, but you will need to exert a bit of your powerful investigating skills and acute intellect for your own sake... is it that you fail to recognize a reference when it’s placed before your nose, or that you don’t know how to research the information?

Sorea$$...

.....Do you think you’ll get around to making a point anytime soon? You sniping ability is as woefully inadequate as is your reading comprehension “skills”...

golfball...

.....I believe he knows it; that why he wails and gnashes his teeth is such an ugly fashion...

NeoNietzsche

2003-08-06 18:59 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Aug 6 2003, 11:08 * *”Let’s have those dates of entry - otherwise the correlations are worthless - end of story.”

.....Please explain how the absence of exact dates confuses you on the transition of these linguistic questions; are you asking for a date for each of the above entries? I’ll jump through just so many hoops for you, but you will need to exert a bit of your powerful investigating skills and acute intellect for your own sake... is it that you fail to recognize a reference when it’s placed before your nose, or that you don’t know how to research the information?**

.....Please explain how the absence of exact dates confuses you on the transition of these linguistic questions;

No request for "exact" dates was made.

...are you asking for a date for each of the above entries?

Let's start with one date.

I’ll jump through just so many hoops for you, but you will need to exert a bit of your powerful investigating skills and acute intellect for your own sake... is it that you fail to recognize a reference when it’s placed before your nose, or that you don’t know how to research the information?

Let's get you through the first hoop on my behalf.

Patrick

2003-08-06 20:58 | User Profile

.....Should be able to determine some dates from the following; at any rate, I am uncertain how it is you believe a mere date could disqualify such voluminous evidence, and this is just the language issue... there is still the Law issues, the Heraldry we see in Historic landmarks and symbols attached to given peoples in History, and more besides...

HEBREW AND ENGLISH

Five Leading Scholars Prove the Link Exists

By

Pastor Jory Brooks (Canada)

The Language Connection

IS modern spoken English descended from the language of the patriarchs? Strong evidence now exists that it is, according to five leading language scholars, whose independent studies have all reached a similar conclusion. This language connection would, in turn, indicate some form of physical contact or migration in early times. Did Israelites of the age of the patriarchs visit the shores of Britain, settle there and impart their language? Evidence from historians shows how that may have taken place.

In ancient times, trading ships from the coast of Palestine sailed throughout the Mediterranean and as far as the coast of Britain. Where trading ships went, colonies soon developed. Now, as fascinating proof of this early colonization, leading language scholars have discovered amazing links between the modern English language and the ancient language of the Hebrews of the Old Testament. They tell their story in the paragraphs to follow, combining to present strong evidence that Hebrews themselves came to the British Isles at an early date. Our thesis is that between the beginning of the Egyptian captivity (1448 B.C.), and the Assyrian-Babylonian invasions (745-586 B.C.), Biblical Israelites first settled the shores of Britain. The result is a fascinating account of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Here are their stories:

1. Pritchard: A leading English language scholar

One of the 19th centuries' most notably famous language experts was James Cowles Pritchard, who lived from 1786 to 1848. Called 'the founder of modern anthropology,' one modern reviewer stated that he had "unquestionably done more than any other single individual to place Ethnology on a scientific basis." In his "Eastern Origin of the Celtic Nations" (1857), he says that there is "a remarkable analogy" between the Hebrew-Semitic languages and the Celtic (which he spells old-style with a 'k' as in 'Keltic' ). He further states that the Celtic language "forms an intermediate link between [the Indo-European] and the Semitic, or perhaps indicates a state of transition" from Semitic to European languages. (p.349) Dr. Pritchard prepared a three-page chart tracing word origins showing his readers the connection between Celtic and Semitic, and states, "it does not appear probable that the idioms of North Africa are even so nearly related to the Semitic, as the latter are to the Indo-European languages."

Pritchard tells an interesting story demonstrating the connection between Hebrew and Celtic. He says, "From another I have learned that a crew of Bretons (i.e., Celts) understood the natives of Tunis [in North Africa]. How? Because the Kelt tongues were so like the Hebrew, and the Carthaginian was the same." (p.108) A ship from the British Isles had stopped in port in North Africa, in modern Libya, and the crewrnembers were surprised to be able to understand the natives who spoke Carthaginian, a Hebrew dialect.

An extended quotation from the scholarly Dr. Pritchard. dealing as he does with "pronominal suffixes," "vocables" and similar technical terms, would be beyond the capability and understanding of the average person. However, he summarizes by saying, "Consequently, even cautious investigators have not only given a list of Semitic elements in the Keltic, but have made the Keltic specially Semitic. " Does this have any relevance as to the origin of the Celtic peoples themselves? Prichard says, "A common language is prima facie evidence in favor of a common lineage ... Language is one of those signs of community of origin which is slow to be abolished - slower than most others." Pritchard believes that the Celts arrived in Britain from Asia, and suggests (p.380) two routes were used to travel westward to the isles: First, from Asia across Northern Africa and by sea to Britain; second, west from Asia and the Caucasus to Europe. Referring to other writers, he says, "With the Irish ... writer upon writer asserted for them an origin from Egypt, Persia, Palestine, or Phoenicia - especially from Phoenicia... The Phoenicians were what the Hebrews were, and the Hebrews were what is called Semitic... the Hebrew language... and the Keltic tongues... practiced the initial permutation of letters in their grammatical formations... Then there were certain habits and superstitions among the Kelts which put the comparative mythologist in mind of certain things Semitic; the Bel-tane, or midsummer-day fire of the Highlands of Scotland.. got compared with fire- worship of the Phoenician Baal. Then there were the words Bearla Fena, or language of Fene of the Irish annals... well translated by Lingus Pena, or Linge Punica - the language of Phoenicia." (p.75) Our tract, "The Hebrew-Celtic Connection." has further information about the origin of the Celts and their connection with the Hebrew nation.

One final important point indicates a connection with the Hebrews. "The evidence then, as far as it goes, is in favor of deducing the word, Kelt, from the wild Iberi... One of the several frontages of the Iberians may have called itself Kelt. " (pp. 66, 68) The Biblical Hebrews called themselves the "Ibri" or "Iberi", according to the Bible Archaeological Review magazine. (November-December, 1991, p.59)

1. Worrell: An American Semitic Scholar

Distinguished language scholar, William H. Worrell, Associate Professor of Semitics at the University of Michigan, proved that the Celtic language evolved in some way from both the Hebrew and Egyptian languages. In his 1927 book, "A Study of Races In The Ancient Near East," he says, "In the British Isles certain syntactic phenomena of insular Celtic speech have led to the inference that in this region languages were spoken which had some relation, however remote, to the Hamitic-Semitic family... the Insular Celtic languages, particularly colloquial Welsh, show certain peculiarities unparalleled in Aryan languages, and these remind one strongly of Hamitic and Semitic." (p. 46, 50) In very scholarly chapters, Dr. Worrell shows that the structure of the Hebrew, Egyptian, and Celtic languages is related. He says, "...we find that the Celtic languages of the British Isles, particularly in their spoken forms, differ from all other Aryan languages, and in a way to suggest the Hamitic or Semitic tongues... " (p,40)

How could the Celtic people exhibit language characteristics in common with both Hebrew and Egyptian? The eminent scholar theorizes that the ancestors of the Celts, before coming to the British Isles, had dwelt for a time in North Africa near Egypt, where they came into contact through trade with both the Hebrews and Egyptians. However, occasional trading would not change the entire structure of their language! A much greater intimacy with both the Hebrews and Egyptians is indicated. Would it not make more sense that the ancestors of the Celts were themselves Hebrews who escaped from Egyptian bondage westward? The Israelites were in an extended captivity in Egypt and thus would have had a solid mixture of both languages in their vocabulary, exactly as,the Celts had. Dr. Worrell comments on the ancient Hebrews, "We fancy we can almost follow them across into Europe, and imagine them the builders of Stonehenge and the dolmens of Brittany. Perhaps they were the people of Druidism. It may be that Caesar's soldiers heard in Aquitania [France] the last echoes of European Hamitic speech; and that Goidels and Brythons learned from Pictish mothers the idioms of this pre-Aryan British tongue. And may not this have been, indeed, the language of the whole Mediterranean race?" (pp. vii-viii) Many years of scholarship, and many pages of evidence, prove that Dr. Worrell was not far from the truth.

1. Hjelmslev: A Danish language scholar

Danish scholar, Dr. Louis Hjelmslev, completed independent research into the root structure of languages. In his book, "Language: An Introduction" (University of Wisconsin Press, 1970), he pointed out the great influence of the Semitic tongue upon the Indo-European languages. He states, "Even a language like Greek, which is considered one of the purest Indo-European languages and which plays a greater role than any other in comparative Indo-European studies, contains only a relatively small number of words that can be genetically accounted for on the basis of Indo-European." (p.63) Dr. Hjelmslev states that most European words are borrowings from non-Indo-European languages. In fact, "a genetic relationship between Indo-European and Hamito-Semitic [i.e., Egyptian-Hebrew] was demonstrated in detail by the Danish linguist Hermann Moller, using the method of element functions." (p. 79) This is an important point. The similarity between Hebrew and English goes far beyond the mere resemblance of similar sounding words. The element-functions represent a "genetic relationship" between English and both Hebrew and Egyptian. (p.83) These languages are therefore related in their very root structure, showing a common origin. Given these facts, a group of Danish language scholars has proposed eliminating the separate language categories of Semitic and Indo-European, combining them into one new category called, "Nostratic, a name proposed by Holger Pedersen for the languages related to our own," namely Hamito (Egyptian) and Semitic (Hebrew). Interestingly, the word, 'nostratic,' is taken from the Latin word, "nostras," meaning, "our own countrymen." (p. 80) Yes, the Semites, he says, are our own countrymen, because both language streams indicate a common origin in their very root structure.

1. Blodgett: An American language scholar

Dr. Terry Blodgett, chairman of the Southern Utah State College Language Department, received international attention in 1982 as a result of his research, which discovered "a major Hebrew influence" in the roots of the English language. A newspaper report commented, "Recent discoveries concerning the Germanic languages suggest there must have been extensive Hebrew influence in Europe, especially in England, Holland, Scandinavia and Germany during the last seven centuries of the pre-Christian era [700 B.C. to Christ]. " These dates take us back to the conquest of the "lost" ten tribes of Israel, who were removed out of Palestine by Assyria and dispersed to other lands between 845 and 676 B.C. Dr. Blodgett's doctoral dissertation was on "Similarities In Germanic and Hebrew " which deals with these discoveries. He states that his research has "traced various tribes of Israel into Europe." Dr. Blodgett presented his research in seminars in America, Germany, and Switzerland during the 1980's. For more information about the migrations of the dispersed Israelite tribes, ask for our tract, "The Real Diaspora."

1. Mozeson: A Hebrew scholar

In his encyclopedic work, "The Word, The Dictionary That Reveals the Hebrew Source of English." Hebrew language scholar, Dr. Isaac Elchanan Mozeson, gives over 5,000 English words with a Semitic origin. Dr. Mozeson teaches the English language at Yeshiva University, and completed ten years of original research in this subject. His conclusion was "that English and Hebrew are profoundly connected. " His findings show that "many more words should be acknowledged as borrowings from the Hebrew. Some of these giant oversights include ogre (from mighty Og, king of Bashan) and colossus (a Greek version of the Hebrew Gollius, familiar to English speakers as Goliath). " Do some words sound alike in Hebrew and English? He says, "There are hundreds of'English and Hebrew words that sound remarkably alike and mean the same but are not cited by linguists. A few of these are abash and boosha, albino and labhan, evil and avel, lick and lakak, regular and rageel, and direction and derech. " Further evidence of a connection exists in word meanings. He tells us, "Many names of animals only have meanings in Hebrew. Giraffe means 'neck' and skunk means'stink'" in Semitic speech. A few additional examples from Dr. Mozeson are given in the adjacent box. His scholarly encyclopedia of the Hebrew origin of English words was published in 1989, quickly sold out, and has not yet been reprinted.

SUMMARY

The research of other scholars also substantiates this evidence. For example, famed Celtic scholar, John Rhys, in The Welsh People, speaks of, "convincing evidence of the presence of some element other than Celtic... We allude to an important group of Irish names formed much in the same way as Hebrew names are represented in the Old Testament. " (p. 66) Many of these scholars further assert that the Celtic ancestors of the modern English people spoke a language which was strongly influenced by both Hebrew and Egyptian down to its very root structure. Yet only the ancient Israelites of the Bible, fresh from hundreds of years of Egyptian captivity, would exhibit such a unique language style.

Historians have often written about the "Phoenician" ships that sailed the Mediterranean Sea to Britain in early times, but few relate the connection between the Hebrew and Phoenician languages. The Bible Handbook by Dr. Joseph Angus, D.D., states, "That the Hebrew language was the common tongue of Canaan and Phoenicia is generally admitted. " (p. 13) In our tract, "Ancient Hebrew Sea Migrations," we show that a significant portion of the so-called Phoenician trade was in reality Israelite. Knowledge of this little-known history sheds important light on Bible history and prophecy.

Link: [url=http://www.british-israel.ca/Hebrew.htm]http://www.british-israel.ca/Hebrew.htm[/url]

Patrick

2003-08-06 21:00 | User Profile

[url=http://www.geocities.com/hiberi/language.html]http://www.geocities.com/hiberi/language.html[/url]

THE ISRAELITE AND NORTH AFRICAN LINKS TO THE INSULAR CELTS IN THE LIGHT OF LINGUISTICS The Question of Alphabetical Lettering Extract from "Lost Israelite Identity" Chapter Seventeen - by Yair Davidiy

The Irish legends are compatible with Israelite origins. They presuppose having originally come from the Middle East AND often speak of arriving in Spain via North Africa. A Moroccan Jewish legend says that when the Ten tribes were exiled part of the tribe of Ephraim reached Morocco. They ruled over the land until the time of Ezra (ca.457-445 b.c.e.) at which period their rule was lost. In many respects North Africa and Spain in early times were often effectually one entity. The Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, and many of the ancient Britons and Gauls, spoke forms of Celtic. Celtic is considered an Indo-European tongue related to Latin. The Celts apparently received the Indo-European aspects of their language and culture from peoples they had conquered on the Continent before continuing their westward trek. Linguistic examinations of the speech of the Welsh and Irish reveal a form of Celtic in which there is an underlying speech element similar to that found in North Africa. North African languages are classified as "Hamitic". Egyptian and Berber are Hamitic tongues. They have an affinity with Semitic languages and local dialects in various parts of the Middle East occasionally exhibit Hamitic features. Aspects of Hamitic speech are also found in Biblical Hebrew but they are not emphasised. Most of the ancient Canaanite peoples adopted a language similar to Hebrew though both Indo-European and Hamitic languages must also have been known to them . The Phoenician use of Hebrew has characteristics of a foreign tongue adopted by them. There also exist Arabic dialects which are Hamitic or reveal a Hamitic substratum. Not only that but the impression is that much of the difference between Hamitic and Semitic is more one of emphasis than of substance. Dialects of Hebrew within the Land of Israel could well have absorbed Hamitic elements. Insular British Celtic tongues, especially colloquial Welsh, says W.H.Worrell, show certain peculiarities which are reminiscent of Hamitic and Semitic tongues and are unparalleled in Aryan languages. Similarly, according to H.Wagner: "Irish.....has as many features in common with non-Indo-European languages, especially with Hamito-Semitic languages, as with other Indo-European languages". "Insular Celtic languages.. the grammatical categories having many affinities with non-Indo-European languages, in particular Basque and Berber". "The comparative typology of insular Celtic initiated by Morris Jones and further developed by Pokorny, G.B.Adams, and myself has revealed that most of the many peculiar features of insular Celtic rarely traceable in other Indo-European languages have analogies in Basque, Berber, Egyptian, Semitic, and even in Negro languages". "Certain features [(of marginal influence only)] of Old Irish verb forms can be understood only in the light of Hittite, Vedic, Sanskrit, and Mycenean Greek". J.Morris Jones said that, "The pre-Aryan idioms which still live in Welsh and Irish were derived from a language allied to Egyptian tongues". The above linguistic remarks show that Insular Celtic (i.e. of Britain and Ireland as distinct from the Continental forms which were somewhat different) is consistent with the claims proposed herein: i.e. The original tongue of the Insular Celts was Semitic (Hebrew) which marginally was influenced by Mycenean Greek, Hittite, Indo-European (Sanskrit), Syrian, Mitanni, and what not. Heavy Hamitic influences may be attributable to those of some of the neighbouring peoples, such as the Canaanites, and Egyptians, and to having sojourned in a North African environment. In addition, the natives of Spain amongst whom the Insular Celts or a good portion of them once dwelt, traded with, and fought against, were also at least in part of North African Berber related Hamitic origin. This explanation may sound involved and complicated but it accords with the evidence when archaeological, anthropological, mythological, and linguistic findings are compared with each other. At all events the natives of Ireland and Wales must have used a Hamitic and/or Semitic tongue(s) before they came into contact with Continental Indo-European ones.

HEBREW IN WELSH??? It was seen above that Irish and colloquial Welsh definitely have some type of underlying linguistic base that must only derive from Middle Eastern (Semitic) and/or North African Hamitic sources. This conclusion was derived from the quoted opinions of linguistic scientists still active in their field today. It so happens that in the past there were others who held similar opinions but went further than their present-day continuers care to. They expressly related Celtic tongues to Hebrew!!! A writer who signed his name "Glas" submitted a list of Welsh words with Hebrew origins in 1832 . The writer remarked that, "But the best proof of the Eastern descent of the ancient British is the close resemblance and connection existing between the Welsh and Hebrew languages, even at this day. As a proof of this we have extracted the following vocabulary of words in both tongues, so closely resembling each other in sound and sense as to leave no doubt whatever on the subject. Many of these words, it will be found, have been transmitted from the Welsh, through the Anglo-Saxon into our modern English. It would be easy to swell their number..

Some of the examples adduced by the above writer were:

Aeth: He went, he is gone; hence = Athah Aml: Plentiful, ample = Hamale ((äîìà

Ydom: the earth = Adamah Awye: air, sky = auor, or bu: it came to pass = bo boten, or potten : belly = beten. brith: bright = barud cas: hatred = caas (anger). dafnu: to drop, or distill by drops = nataph, taph.

In 1675 Charles Edwards ("Hanes y Fydd") published A number of Welsh Cambro-Brittanic Hebraisms in which he shows that whole phrases in Welsh can be closely paralleled by whole phrases in Hebrew.

From the list of Charles Edwards, L.G.A. Roberts (1919) made a selection and we have selected examples from Roberts after slightly modernising the Hebrew transliterations : It should be noted that when account is taken for likely and known dialectical changes of pronounciation the examples given in effect show identical Welsh parallel phrases for the Hebrew original.

In Welsh: Gael hedd (Gen.31;47) meaning Geledd i.e. heap of testimony= in Hebrew (âìòã) : Galaed.

In Welsh: Bagad meaning "A troop cometh ?" (Gen.30;11) = in Hebrew (áâãBagad)

In Welsh : Anudon meaning "Without God" = in Hebrew (àéï àãåï) : Aen Adon.

In Welsh : Yni all sy dda meaning "I am the Almighty God" (Gen. 17;1) = in Hebrew: ((àðé àì ùãé : Ani El Saddai.

In Welsh : Llai iachu yngwyddd achau ni meaning "Let him not live before our brethren" (Gen. 31;32) = in Hebrew ( ìà éçéä ðâã àçéðå ) Loa yichei neged acheinu (Gen.31;32).

In Welsh Ochoren ballodddi hoc-dena meaning "After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure?" = in Hebrew : (àçøé áìúé äéúä ìé òãðä ) Acharei belothi hedenah (Gen.18;12).

In Welsh Bebroch fra am beneu ach ef, dyfet Deborah mam ianceth Ribecah meaning "When he fled from the face of his brother . But Deborah Rebecca's nurse died" (Gen. 35;7-8) = in Hebrew : (ááøçå îôðé àçéå åúîú ãáøä îéð÷ú øá÷ä) Beborcho mpnei achiv vetamath Deborah mayneceth Ribecah.

In Welsh: Yngan Job yscoli yscoli cynghaws i (Job 6;1,2) meaning "Job answered, O that my grief were thoroughly weighed" = in Hebrew: (åéòï àéåá...ù÷åì éù÷ì ëòùé) Veya(g)n Eyub ....shocol yishocal ca(g)si

In Welsh: Amelhau bytheu chwi a bythau holl ufyddau chwi meaning "And they shall fill your house and the houses of all your servants" (Gen. 10;6) = in Hebrew (åîìàå áúéê åáúé ëì òáãéê) : Umalu bathechoh and bathei col avedochoh.

In Welsh Iachadd ni meaning "Thou hast healed me" = in Hebrew ( (äçéúðé : hechiyatni.

In Welsh Nesa awyr peneu chwi meaning "Lif thou up the light of thy countenance" = in Hebrew (ðñä àåø ôðéê) : nasa aor panechoh.(Psalms 4;6.).

In Welsh An annos meaning "None did compel" = in Hebrew ((àéï àðñ : ain ones. (Esther 1;8).

In Welsh As chwimwth meaning "an angry man" = in Hebrew (àéù çîñ) : ish chamas (Psalms 140;12 Proverbs 16;29 meaning a wickedly-violent man).

In Welsh Be heulo, luerferfo (Job 6;4) meaning "When his candle shined ..... and by his light.." = in Hebrew (áäéìå ..ìàåøå) : behilo, leoroe.

In Welsh Bwgythieu in gwarchaeni (Job 6;4) meaning "The terrors of God set themselves in array against me = in Hebrew (áòåúé àìåä éòøëåðé) : Biu(g)thi elohai ya-a(g)rchuni.

In Welsh I far meaning "Shall be cursed" = Hebrew (éåàø) : Yu-ar, yuv-ar. (Numbers 22;6).

In Welsh Am geryddo fo meaning "At his reproof" = in Hebrew (òí âòøúå) : im ge-arato.

Godfrey Hughes "The Celtic Druids" (1829) quotes from a certain Welsh Translation of the Bible in which similar examples as the above are apparent:

In Welsh By-lllwng Adon-ydb holl neuodh Jago meaning "The Lord has swallowed up all the tabernacles of Jacob" (Lamentations 2;2) = Hebrew (áìò àãðé......àú ëì ðàåú éò÷á) : Balla(ng) Adoni eth col neoth Yacob.

In Welsh Dyrac buth-hi ai-i-sengyd meaning "The avenue of her dwelling he would go to tread" (Proverbs 7;8) = Hebrew (ãøê áéúä éöòã) : Derech baithah yitsa(ng)d.

In Welsh Py yw-o sy maeloc y-cavad I-a-ywoo savwyod yw-o maeloc y-cavad, Selah meaning "Who is the king of glory [attainment]? The LORD of hosts , he is the king of glory. Selah" (Psalms 24;10) = Hebrew (îé äåà æä îìê äëáåã ä~ öáàåú äåà îìê äëáåã ñìä) Mi hu zeh melec hacavod Y....Tsavaoth hu melec hacavod selah.

The affinity between Hebrew and Welsh was mentioned by a certain Dr. Davies (amongst others) and in the preface to his Welsh Grammar there was a poem to the effect that:

He gladly deigns his countrymen to teach, By well-weighòd rules, the rudiments of speech; That when the roots first of our own we gain, The Hebrew tongue we thence may soon attain .

The Rev. Eliezer Williams (b.1754) wrote several works on the Celts and made several remarks (quoted by Roberts p.23):

"In the Hebrew...which the ancient British language greatly resembles... "The roots of most of the ancient British, or real Welsh, words may be regularly traced in the Hebrew.. "Scarcely a Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivative in the ancient British language...But not only..the words...their variations and inflections afford a much stronger proof of affinity...The plural number of nouns likewise is often formed in a similar manner in the Celtic by adding in (a contraction of éí: i.e.-IM which is the suffix used in Hebrew to form the masculine plural)...in the formation of sentences, and in the government of words...the same syntax might serve for both.....

Davies in "Mythology of the Ancient Druids" (p.94) asserts that "Taleisin, the chief Bard, declares that his lore had been detailed in Hebraic..."

It follows from all the above that though the language of the British Celts may have superficially conformed to an Indo-European type it had enough Semitic and Hebraic features to confirm the notion that Hebrew had been their original tongue. This explanation fits best of all the facts in our possession taken from all disciplines concerned with the subject.

Patrick

2003-08-06 21:22 | User Profile

From Frederick Haberman's "Tracing Our Ancestors" (1934), pgs. 73-76.

"One of the main reasons why ancient Israel has disappeared from the stage of history is that Israel did not speak Hebrew but Phoenician. The Hebrew is a daughter of the Phoenician. As we have already seen the Phoenicians, the house of Enoch, were the inventors of the alphabet, their language and alphabet must therefore be the oldest and the parent stock from which all others have sprung. About the time that the millions of Israelites began to overflow the borders of Palestine during the Golden Age of Phoenicia into the Aegean Islands, the Greek began to branch off, as shown on Plate V [My notes: a picture of the languages chart, which was taken from the 'Chambers Encyclopedia. It had the Egyptian, Phoenician, Greek, Latin and Hebrew languages listed. I'll see if I can find a picture of this], and during the centuries developed into the familiar Greek letters. At about the same time Hebrew-Phoenician colonists settled in Italy under the name of Etruscans and Umbri (Latin for Hebrew) and the Latin alphabet began to take its form. (Refer to Aryan Origin of the Alphabet by Prof. Waddell.)

When in 1103 B.C. Brutus of Troy and his Barat Phoenicians invaded England, they brought their Phoenician script with them, although the language had been spoken in Britain since the coming of the first Aryans a thousand years before. From this Phoenician developed the language of Brittany, the Irish and Scotch Gaelic, the Manx and the Welsh. The Chronicles of Erie were written in an Irish form of Phoenician and were translated only a hundred years ago by Roger O'Connor. Another form of the Phoenician alphabet and language appears in the Gothic Runes and in the language of the Gothic Eddas and the Sagas, which the Goths, the Asa and Saxons brought with them into Europe when they appeared in the early Christian centuries. . . . From the Phoenician Gothic and the language of the Eddas developed the modern English, German and the Scandinavian languages. The simple Phoenician script and language survived on the Mediterranean as late as the beginning of the Christian era for commercial purposes under the name of Punic, in the same way that the English is the universal commercial language of today.

The Semitic branch of the Phoenician stock includes the Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac and Armenian languages. The Hebrew of today with its vowels was derived from the Aramean, which the Jews learned in the Babylonian captivity. 'The Aramaic in the time of our Lord had taken the place of the genuine Hebrew, as the colloquial language and had usurped its name; and the Aramaic is intended by the Hebrew language or the Hebrew.' - Citation from Davis, Dictionary of the Bible.

When the ten tribes of Israel were taken into Assyrian captivity, they took their language with them, and the only inscription that they left in Palestine is the Siloam inscription in Jerusalem, and it is not in Hebrew but in Phoenician. The langauge of Israel and their writing appears again in the Gothic Runes of eastern and northern Europe. When the kingdom of Judah went into Babylonian captivity about 600 B.C., and only 42,000 of them came back seventy years later, they adopted the Aramaic; and the generation that came back had forgotten their fathers' language to the extent that Ezra had to translate the Law to them. The early writings of Israel were written in Phoenician and not in Hebrew. As our scholars have failed to see the difference between Israel and the Jews, they have completely confused the issue; and when they speak of ancient Hebrew they mean Phoenician. 'The oldest Hebrew MS dates from A. D. 489; is a roll and was found in the Karaite Synagogue in the Crimea.' The Targums version of the Old Testament does not date any earlier than the Babylonian captivity of the Jews, and it was written in the Aramaic Chaldee language, and even of that version there is no B. C. manuscript in existence. So when our scholars speak of the ancient Hebrew of the Israelites they mean Phoenician evidently, for they never have seen it written on a scroll, only on the Siloam inscription, the Moabite Stone, and the Phoenician engravings of the East, the Mediterranean, Southern Russia, and Europe, particularly in Britain. Neither the Phoenician nor the Aramaic possessed any vowels; therefore the pronunciations differed according to locality and age. The vowel signs of the Hebrew manuscripts were introduced by Jewish scholars between the fifth and ninth centuries A. D. None of the manuscripts from which our Bible was translated are older than the fourth century. (Refer to "Bible" in Encyclopedia Brittanica, Vol III, Page 859, 11th edition.)

Only when we trace the origin of the Phoenicians to the descendants of Noah and follow the central stem of that root through the line of Heber and Abraham can we lift the veil of mystery that has hung over the Phoenicians throughout the ages; then can we understand who were the leading spirits of the Golden Age of Phoenicia and of the Mythical Age of ancient Hellas. At that time no Jew had ever been born; yet the Jews of a later age and until this day have succeeded in beclouding this issue and have blinded the minds of our scholars.

Chambers Encyclopedia, under the article "Phoenicia," remarks: 'The Golden Age of Phoenicia, during which her colonies, her manufactures and her commerce were in this most brilliant phase, seems to have waned simultaneously with that of Judea. As Solomon in the latter, so does Hiram in the former, mark the end of that peace and happiness which made their countries rich and glorious, as no other country of their day.'

'Surely, the secret at last is out,' says Prof. H. B. Hannay. 'The Cyclopedist admits that with the demise of Solomon and Hiram, the so-called Phoenician Age practically came to an end.' The Cyclopedist is, however, in error in referring to Judea, for the Kingdom of Judea started only after Solomon's death. And the very reason that Phoenicia's greatness had passed was that the Northern Kingdom of Israel, the house of Isaac, or the Beth-Sak of the Assyrian tablets, became harrassed by the armies of Assyria, and all those who did not leave Palestine voluntarily were finally driven into Assyrian captivity, between the years 747 and 676 B. C.

'Yes, the Northern Israelites - the Beth-Sak - were the heroes of the Golden Age, its creators and sustainers. It is when they are suddenly and tragically hurried into oblivion that lo, the activities and glories of the so-called Phoenician Golden Age mysteriously shrink, wither, and fade away too! Glory departs, - but it reappears elsewhere. From time to time as the centuries roll on, it shines forth anew in divers[e] countries to which the disintegrated and scattered communities of the Beth-Sak can be proved to have found their devious way; not, however, as communities known to be Hebrews, but under different names -names familiar enough to the historians and the schoolboy - which few would ever dream of associating, and some of which have in fact never been associated, with the Hebrew Race. This, of course, is anticipating the argument; but the digression enables us to catch a glimpse of the probable reason why, during the centuries which have come and gone since the cap tivity referred to, the Hebrew element or aspect of the stirring epoch which has been misnamed the Phoenician Golden Age, has dropped so entirely out of sight and remembrance.' - H. B. Hannay

It is this oblivion of the name of Israel that the Psalmist had in mind when he said: 'They have said, Come and let us cut them off from being a nation: that the name of Israel be no more in remembrance.'

Of course, we must not overlook the people who lived in Palestine when Israel entered the land, the people of Syria and the Hittites, all of them Phoenicians, for they also were the descendants of Noah and of Ham. What pure religion they once possessed had long been displaced by Bel worship and its abomination. When, therefore, the new blood of their kinsmen the Israelites came among them, the latter easily predominated; but Israel all too eaily adopted the pagan religion of the Canaanites and the Hittites. After Israel had disappeared from Palestine, the Canaanite-Phoenicians founded Carthage, Venice and Marseilles; and we have every reason to believe that the Latin nations of Europe are descended from the Canaanites, and so also are the Sourthern Irish."

A brief excerpt from pg. 78 of the above named book at the top of this post, especially a quote attributed to Ptomely:

"But the most valuable evidence of all concerning the Western Isles [my note: British Isles] is supplied by Ptolemy: 'They were peopled by descendants of the Hebrew Race, who were skilled in smelting operations, and excelled in working metals [my notes: reference to tin trade from British Isles].' . . .

Considering all this testimony we see that as soon as the Phoenix of Israel began to set in the East, a new home had been appointed for them in the West, in Brith-ain - the Land of the Covenant. Therefore we read in II Samuel 7:10: 'Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime.' "

Zoroaster

2003-08-06 22:26 | User Profile

My, my this forum has become the cut-and-paste library for the CI movement. They would overwhelm reason with a flood of pamphlets of every crackpot Bibilical error and distortion that was ever written to create a creed of nonsense.

They have a warehouse of material. They must be operating from computers in Elohim City.

-Z-

2600

2003-08-06 23:19 | User Profile

Note, Patrick, that my addition was in :jest: I remain unconvinced that we're the true Israelites. :sm:

It's honestly going to take more than a few words w/similarities to change that.

Sojourner

2003-08-07 01:13 | User Profile

I very much doubt that the cut-and-paste factories you're using to clog this forum have any answers to my questions. Am I right?

To one who wants to continue to love the lie there are no answers. You are correct. It doesn't matter how many questions we answer you will just ridicule and scoff at them anyway. Thats what anti-Christs do. DUH. Funny how you accuse us of cutting and pasting while you are cutting and pasting every out of context scripture that any atheist site has by the thousands. All of your above scriptures refer to those who love the lie and hate truth. And in fact they hate it so much they distort the truth every way they can. God allows them to continue in it and it fact he'll help them along with giving them a strong delusion.

The condition is given in which this happens:

2 Thessalonians

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned **who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. **

You hate the truth and pleasure in your unrighteousness. To those of us who love the truth this is more than obvious. Your rants and foolish and false accusations only prove it more every time you open your mouth. Continue you on condemning yourself... Its your choice and obviously you glory in it.

Zoroaster

2003-08-07 01:49 | User Profile

The inveterate liars of the Christian Identity cult are endeavoring to palm off upon our noble and chivalrous race their vile and brutal falsehoods that we have no claim to share in the glory of our Aryan-speaking ancestors. Their idea that we are not what science and history says we are comes from their reading of the Bible—or rather in the settlings that they regard as brains because they can’t stand how nature formed them. They must swallow lies to preserve their wretched carcasses, for they cannot understand what the body is, still less what the mind is, and least of all how a body should be united to a mind.

That killer, Patrick, of the Elohim City Thunderbolt and Battle Cry of Yahweh, is on-line again sponging up more cyberspace with his idiotic nonsense.

We observe that killer is giving out, with his usual propensity for lying, that ancient Israelites came from outer space and hordes of them landed in the British Isles. Killer believes his heaven-borne mission is to disseminate truth; to eradicate error; to educate, refine, and elevate the tone of intellectual discourse, and make all men followers of Yahweh, more virtuous, more heroic, and in all ways better, and holier, and happier; and yet this arrogant masochist degrades his own race persistently to the dissemination of falsehood, calumny, vituperation, and vulgarity.

The Bible is poison in the hands of fanatics.

-Z-

golfball

2003-08-07 03:07 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Zoroaster@Aug 6 2003, 20:49 * ** ............

The Bible is poison in the hands of fanatics.

-Z- **

Those others have stated their case Zoroaster, now explain yours, and be specific.

Explain why the bible is poison in the hands of fanatics.

Specifically please, no drivel.....

Patrick

2003-08-07 04:03 | User Profile

"We observe that killer is giving out, with his usual propensity for lying, that ancient Israelites came from outer space and hordes of them landed in the British Isles."

I see...

.....You are some manner of retarded species; you certainly cannot be caucasian... I had not said one word about ufos, or any similar nonsense; you now have to resort to manufacturing libelous canards, with which to attempt your sorry character assassination... Only an idiot so resorts; "nice" to meet you...

.....It's quite lucky for you and the mutant of winter that pagan fools don't openly worship phallic symbols today; were they to bow to such, you two bozos would be tripping over them with regularity... :lol:

Patrick

2003-08-07 17:55 | User Profile

Gee...

.....I thought ol' Zorro would have that specific explanation ready by now; seems sniping from the cheap seats is about all that can be mustered from that quarter...

golfball

2003-08-09 14:20 | User Profile

I have found that those who reject Christ to start with serve their father. :rolleyes:

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and continue on in the effort to save our children and race. :)