← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · edward gibbon
Thread ID: 8468 | Posts: 13 | Started: 2003-07-26
2003-07-26 14:52 | User Profile
[SIZE=3][color=red]Prepare Austria for an Invasion - Gutless Sh*ts[/color][/SIZE]
**One of the highest scoring German aces (an Austrian, actually) almost ended his flying career very early. Flying a Bf 109 in July 19, 1941, he had shot down three Polikarpov I-153 biplanes (his first three kills), when he went down too. He ditched his Messerchmitt in the Gulf of Riga and clambered into his one-man survival raft. With no food or drink, he paddled southwards, towards land that he estimated to be about 40 miles away. A couple German fighters flew overhead, but didn't notice his Mauser pistol shots. Sunburn set in, waves splashed into his dinghy, and he became exausted from his paddling.
On his second night adrift, two Soviet destroyers passed close by, but didn't notice him either. He was somewhat heartened by the evidently-German artillery fire directed at the Russian warships. But by the second day, he became nearly suicidal, and even began writing a "farewell message." He fell asleep, and when he awoke on the third day, the currents had brought him close to shore. He paddled towards it, landed, and collapsed on the sandy beach. He awoke in a bed; two Latvian auxiliaries (collaborators?) had rescued him.
For many months, JG 54 remained at Krasnogvardeisk, as the northern front settled into a stalemate around besieged Leningrad.
Messerschmitt Bf 109 Nowotny achieved over 50 victories in this airplanes, from July 1941 through early 1943. He was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 54 on 25 October 1942. Focke Wulf 190 In January and February of 1943, JG 54 transitioned to the Fw 190, a rugged aircraft that Nowotny and many othe experten would fly with great success. In August, Nowotny added 49 victories to his score and was promoted to Gruppenkommandeur of 1./JG 54. Heady stuff for a 22-year-old. But he hadn't yet been awarded the "Oak Leaves," and showed distinct signs of "throat-ache;" despite the fact that he had passed the 120-victory threshhold - no "Oak Leaves." But he continued to excel in the air. On September 1, 1943 he downed ten Russian aircraft. On a morning bomber escort mission, he destroyed four attacking Soviet fighters. He noticed another group, and promptly got two of those. As the dogfight carried him 180 km over Russian lines, he closed in on a seventh victim, only to have his cannon jam. he closed in ever closer and finished it off with his machine guns. He made good his return by flying on the deck, right thru the flak thrown up from a large town. That afternoon, on another sortie, he got three more during an in-and-out duel in the clouds.
A few days later, he received his long-awaited Oak Leaves. "The Swords" followed three weeks later, awarded to him at a ceremony at Hitler's headquarters.
By September 14, his score stood at 203, just behind the Luftwaffe leader (Hans Phillipp?). At midday, on a clear, perfect day, Soviet bombers and their fighter escorts approached. Nowotny led his 4-plane Schwarm on a Freie Jagd (literally "free hunt," or in Allied aviation jargon, a "fighter sweep"). Soon, evryone in the ops room heard over the loudspeaker his radio call that he had achieved his 204th. He was then the top Luftwaffe experte. He kept flying and fighting and shooting down Soviet planes. Before the end of September, he had reached a total of 235. On afternoon, while patrolling south of Velikiye Luki, he shot down 3 of a group of 14 Airacobras. The next day, in the same area, a flight of 6 Airacobras fled as soon as they sighted the Fw 190's; perhaps they were survivors from the previous day's mission. Only two escaped.
Then he had a day ruined by jammed guns and an out-of-service aircraft. The following day, his aerial rampage continued: two P-40s, a P-39, and an LaGG-3. Nowotny was doing his part to reduce the American Lend-Lease equipment sent to Russia.
The Diamonds On October 15, 1943, he destroyed a Curtiss P-40 - his 250th victory. He was the first pilot ever to achieve such a score. Back at his base, a wild celebration ensued. Nowotny took off to Vilna to celebrate in style. His wingman "Quax" Schnörrer stayed at the base and, with other pilots, got riotously drunk. Then General von Greim telephoned, to say that the Führer wanted to speak to Nowotny, to congratulate him personally. Understanding the situation, General Greim passed on the information that Nowotny was at the Ria Bar in Vilna, confident that Hitler's telephone operators wouldn't be able to get through to the partying Nowotny. But they did. Nowotny, stewed to the gills, surrounded by young lovelies in a noisy bar, managed to get through the conversation with the Führer. He had been awarded the "Diamonds," the Reich's highest military honor. The next day, von Greim, Schnörrer, and Nowotny flew to Hitler's HQ in East Prussia, for Nowotny to receive his "Diamonds."
But October, 1943 marked the end of Nowotny's famous schwarm (flgiht of four planes). Toni Döbele (96 victories) was killed. Lt. Karl "Quax" Schnörrer (35) was badly injured in a crash and hospitalized for a long time. Nowotny himself was made into a superhero by Goebbels propaganda machine and was withdrawn from the front.
Training Assignments His career was temporarily halted because he was assigned command of the Schulegeschwader 101 (SJG 101). This was a training unit for new pilots, and was based in Palau. Even though it was an unpopular assignment for the veteran pilots, Nowotny once again brilliantly succeded, earning a reputation as a first class instructor. Me 262 Jet On September 26, 1944, he was appointed CO of Kommando Nowotny, the world's first jet fighter unit, based at Achmer and Hesepe Kommando Nowotny became operational on the 3rd of October and claimed their first kill, a B-24, on October 7th. Nowotny began the practice of using prop-driven conventional fighters as cover against the roaming Allied fighters during the takeoffs and landings of the Me 262. The Me 262 was especially vulnerable as the turbojet's relatively low thrust resulted in slow acceleration. It took some time for the jet to get up to speed. But once there, no Allied aircraft could touch it.
November 8, 1944 Adolph Galland, Luftwaffe General of Fighters, visited Achmer for an inspection. Nowotny was going to give Galland his pilots' flight reports. A flight of B-17 bombers was reported, so the unit took off, about six jets in the first wave, then another. The Fw-190Ds were waiting on the runway cover their return of the jets. Galland was in the operations shack, monitoring the pilots' radio transmissions. Several bombers were called out as shot down, and Nowotny radioed that he was approaching. The flight leader on the ground, Hans Dortenmann, requested permission to take off to assist, but Nowotny said no, to wait. The defensive anti-aircraft battery opened fire on a few P-51 Mustangs that approached the field, but they were chased away. The jets were coming in. One Me-262 had been shot down, and Nowotny reported an engine failure before making a garbled transmission referring to ââ¬Åburningââ¬Â. Galland watched Nowi's approach, heard the sound of a jet engine, and saw his Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. 110 400) ââ¬ÅWhite 8ââ¬Â dive vertically out of the clouds and crash at Epe, 2.5 kilometres east of Hesepe. The explosions rocked the air, and only a column of black smoke rose from behind the trees. The wreckage was Nowotny's plane. After sifting through it, the only salvageable things found were his left hand and pieces of his Diamonds decoration.
The unit was disbanded shortly after Nowotny's death. It had claimed 22 aircraft with a loss of 26 Me 262s, eight of which were due to accidents and mechanical failures. **
[color=red]Disgraceful conduct of Vienna city council[/color] [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F07%2F13%2Fwpilot13.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=50408]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...requestid=50408[/url]
**Vienna council shifts Luftwaffe hero from plot of honour to pauper's grave By Clare Chapman in Vienna (Filed: 13/07/2003)
The ashes of a daredevil Luftwaffe pilot who shot down more than 250 Allied planes in the Second World War are to be exhumed from a grave of honour in Vienna after the council stripped him of his status as a war hero.
The campaign to remove Major Walter Nowotny's remains from the city's Central Cemetery and move them to a pauper's plot has been led by the grandson of a British RAF pilot who was shot down over Belgium in 1940 and died of his injuries.
David Ellensohn, a Vienna city councillor whose maternal grandfather was RAF acting pilot officer James Gillespie, successfully argued that Major Nowotny - the first fighter pilot in history to bring down 250 enemy aircraft - had been serving the Third Reich and did not deserve his heroic status.
"He was not fighting for this country, for Austria, he was fighting for the Third Reich," said Mr Ellensohn, a Green Party councillor. "If they had won the war, there would be no Austria as such. Therefore, we should not be forced to give special credit to this man."
Major Nowotny, who had shot down 258 enemy aircraft by the time of his death, aged 24, had been awarded the Third Reich's highest military honour, the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, by Hitler himself.
When the major died in 1944 when his fighter crashed in flames, his ashes were buried with his medals in his home town, Vienna, alongside Austrian resistance fighters and Beethoven, Schubert, Johann Strauss and Brahms.
Mr Ellensohn asked: "What did he do that earned him a place alongside those who really earned their places in the cemetery, such as resistance fighters Rosa Jochmann and Paul Speiser?
"He was placed in that section of the graveyard by the Nazis, not by the city of Vienna, and although it has taken 59 years for the city to recognise that he does not deserve to be there, we are pleased that action is finally being taken."
The council's decision has been denounced as "cultural barbarianism" by Johann Herzog, a councillor for the opposition Freedom Party (FP), which has launched an appeal.
Opposition councillors argue that relocating the major's ashes would contravene the war graves welfare law, from 1948, that says war graves - regardless of the nationality of their occupant - must remain undisturbed.
Mr Herzog said: "The necessity to dishonour Nowotny's grave, and therefore his person, almost 60 years after his death, is evidence of a distorted understanding of history and moreover a lack of deference for a fallen soldier. And that's all he was - a soldier.
"He was not a member of the National Socialist Party and he certainly was not a war criminal. If he were, I could understand the removal of his status. In fact, he was respected not just by his own side but by RAF pilots as well."
Sascha Gasthuber, of the far-Right Germania group, said protesters carrying flaming torches to show their contempt for the vote would march against the council's decision. "Nowotny gave his life to make sure the future was worth living in for us and our children. We cannot sit back and let them dishonour his memory like this."
Mr Ellensohn, however, insisted that the plan to move the grave away from the cemetery's section for heroes was perfectly justified. "[color=blue]As far as I am aware, there is no rule in Catholicism that says a grave cannot be moved, not like in Judaism," [/color]he said.
Major Nowotny, who joined up when he was 19 following the invasion of Poland, was renowned even among Allied pilots and during the summer of 1943 became a virtual one-man air force in the skies over the Eastern Front. In June 1943 he shot down 41 aircraft, 10 in one day. He crashed on November 8 1944 and was buried with his medals a few days later.**
The great disease of the West.
2003-07-26 15:44 | User Profile
Sounds like too many of the Austrians worthy of the name died in the war.
2003-07-26 20:49 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jul 26 2003, 08:52 * ** [SIZE=3][color=red]Prepare Austria for an Invasion - Gutless Shts[/color][/SIZE] **
Mr. Gibbon: That decision of the Vienna City Council was ill-advised, but that does not [color=red]at all[/color] entitle you to heap abuse on my country. :angry:
Removing a war grave, much as that is wrongful, is [color=red]nothing[/color], compared to the destruction and plundering of thousands of irreplaceable artifacts of mankindôs history that has been enabled by, may I remind you, American soldiery, but you do [color=red]not][/color] see me holding the mass of Americans responsible for the acts of GWB and the Zionist cabal. :angry:
2003-07-28 15:14 | User Profile
What!?! They've run out of real, live evil Nazis, so they've got to dig up dead ones and kick them again? Truly sick behavior.
This should remind all that Jews take the "never forgive, never forget" thing very, very seriously. That they would take the time and effort to defile the grave of a brave man nearly 60 years after his death says that loud and clear. It oughta be a lesson also to anyone who thinks that backtracking and apologizing will get them anywhere in dealing with the tribe.
2003-07-28 16:19 | User Profile
Man, the Germans produced some great ones. I think America's top ace was Richard Bong with 50 kills in the Pacific. And he wasn't going up against obsolete Bell Aerocobras either.
Course, the Germans had a shooting gallery going on overhead for years and that certainly accounts for their massive number of kills.
Poor Bong survived combat and immediately killed himself stateside test piloting a jet.
2003-07-28 17:59 | User Profile
eric von zipper (Posted on Jul 28 2003, 17:19)> ** Man, the Germans produced some great ones. I think America's top ace was Richard Bong with 50 kills in the Pacific ** One site listed the top ten American air aces of all wars. [url=http://www.acepilots.com/index.html]http://www.acepilots.com/index.html[/url]
United States Aces> ** ÃÂ ÃÂ Richard Bong 40ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ Thomas B. McGuire 38 ÃÂ ÃÂ D. McCampbell 34ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ F. Gabreski 28 D ÃÂ ÃÂ G. Boyington 28 ÃÂ ÃÂ R. Johnson 28 ÃÂ ÃÂ C. H. MacDonald 27ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ G. E. Preddy 26ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ J. J. Foss 26ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ R. Hanson 25**
The total for the top ten American aces is [color=red]300[/color] enemy planes.
[url=http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html]http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html[/url]> ** Top German AcesàKillsàCommentsàààààààMedalàààUnitàEastàWestàPlaneàErich Hartmannààà352àFirst kill Nov. 1942àKCOSDààJG 52 352à-àBf 109 Gerhard Barkhornà301à120 sorties w/o a killàKCOS JG 52, 6, JV 44 301à-àBf 109 Günther Rallààààà275àtwo long injury layoffsàKCOS JG 52, 11, 300 272à3àBf 109 Otto Kittelààààààà267à583 sorties, KIA Feb '45 KCOS JG 54 267à-àFw 190 Walter Nowotnyààà258àAustrian, KIA Nov '44ààKCOSD JG 54, Kdo. Nov. 255 Wilhelm Batzààààà237à-àKCOS JG 52 232à5àBf 109 Erich Rudorfferàààà222à1000+ sorties, downed 16 times, 12 Me 262 killsàKCOSàHeinz Bäràààààààà220à16 in Me 262, downed 18 timesàKCOS various 96 Hermann Grafààààà211à830+ sortiesàKCOSD various 201à10àFw 190 Heinrich Ehlerààààà209à-àKCO JG, 5, 7 209à-àBf 109 Theodore Weissenburgerà208à500+ sorties, 8 kills with Me 262àKCO JG 77 Hans Philippàààààà206àshot down by Robert S. JohnsonàKCOS JG 76, 54, 1 177àWalter Schuckàààà206à-àKCO JG 5, 7 198à8àBf 109 Anton Hafnerààààà204à-àKCO JG 51 184à20à- Helmut Lipfertààààà203à-àKCO JG 52, 53 199à4àBf 109 Walter Krupinksiààà197à-àKCO JG 52 177à20àBf 109 Anton Hacklàààààà192 -àKCOS JG 77 130 62 Bf 109 Joachim Brendelààà189à-àKCO JG 51 189à-àFw 190 Max Stotzàààààààà189 -àKCO JG 54 173 16 Fw 190 Joachim Kirschneràà188 -àKCO JG 3 167 21 Bf 109 Kurt Brändleàààààà180 -àKCO JG 53, 3 160 20 Bf 109 Gunther Jostenàààà178à-àKCO JG 51 178à-à- Johannes "Macky" Steinhoff 176 -àKCOS JG 52 148 28 Bf 109 Günther Schackàààà174à-àKCO JG 51 174à-à- Heinz Schmidtààààà173 -àKCO JG 52 173 - Bf 109 Emil "Bully" Langààà173 18 in one day KCO JG 54 148 25 Fw 190 Adolph Gallandààààà104à-àKCOSD JG.26, JG.27, JV.44 -à104àBf 109, Me 262 Knightts Cross (KC) with Oak Leaves (O), Swords (S), and Diamonds (D) **
I have tried to impress the different intensity of war that the Germans had as compared with American forces. By no means were the Russians as inept as commonly and inaccurately remembered by many Americans.
[color=red]Paleoleftist /color> ** ÃÂ QUOTE (edward gibbon @ Jul 26 2003, 08:52 ) Prepare Austria for an Invasion - Gutless Sh*tsÃÂ
Mr. Gibbon: That decision of the Vienna City Council was ill-advised, but that does not at all entitle you to heap abuse on my country.ÃÂ
Removing a war grave, much as that is wrongful, is nothing, compared to the destruction and plundering of thousands of irreplaceable artifacts of mankindôs history that has been enabled by, may I remind you, American soldiery, but you do not] see me holding the mass of Americans responsible for the acts of GWB and the Zionist cabal.** I am holding you personally responsible for reversing this "ill-advised" decision. A good thumping of Ellensohn is your first order of business.
2003-07-29 03:12 | User Profile
*Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jul 28 2003, 11:59 * ** I am holding you personally responsible for reversing this "ill-advised" decision. A good thumping of Ellensohn is your first order of business. **
On the day GWB is tried for War Crimes, we will sure have been successful in getting voted E. out of the Vienna City Council. :lol:
Tell me of the progress you are making with this!
2003-07-29 03:17 | User Profile
Vas est los?
No Rudel?
2003-07-29 03:20 | User Profile
PL:
That's not fair, it is de facto impossible to get an American official tried for war crimes.
Remember, its a political decision...
2003-07-29 03:26 | User Profile
**Sounds like too many of the Austrians worthy of the name died in the war. **
The same could be said of other participating nations, including the Germans. If the statement often attributed to him is true, Hitler thought along similar lines near the twilight of his career.
I just find it funny, that they need to point out that Walter Nowotny is "Austrian". Austria didn't exist and most f all, no one back then considered themselves as such (in a sense of nationalety).
True enough, but the curious mixture of identity disorder and lack of enthusiasm by the average Austrian, to a plan that in this instance amounts to a personal vendetta, is not surprising whenever a given issue has Greater Nazi Germany as its setting. Amusing, is it not, how on the one hand an Austrian takes pride in the pilotââ¬â¢s victories, but on the other hand shows restraint since the exploits were performed in the service of what must, as a matter of unspoken policy, be forever regarded as foreign power.
But we mustnââ¬â¢t judge too harshly. Oneââ¬â¢s level of deference to the new religion depends on proximity to the epicentre of the alleged happenings. We in the Occident are sufficiently pious by abstaining from all policies tinted by NS origins, whether real of imaginary. In Austria they practice the same, though with more pronounced enthusiasm, and, of course, blame Germany for conscripting them. In Germany proper the level of deference -- as measured by statutory inducements and incarceration rates of political dissidents -- is sans equal, and when possible Hitler is blamed for ââ¬Åseducingââ¬Â them. Repugnant? Yes, but also a mere expedience in face of modern political realities, designed by Zhids and enforced by Gentile treachery and stupidity.
Incidentally, a cursory glance of the furnished photo, a reminder that the manââ¬â¢s place of birth nears shifting ethnic borderlines, and, most especially, with a name like No[v]otny we have more than enough information to assign with accuracy the familyââ¬â¢s ethnic origin. :D Naturally, during the time question, his family has probably long been Germanized, i.e., he was a German and he has enlisted with the services of ââ¬ÅGreater Germany,ââ¬Â of which Austria was but a province.
It is a pity that the little state cannot find a permanent place of rest for one of its fallen heroes. But, then again, the problem, the disowning of buried political inconveniences, is a microcosm not exclusive to modern Austria.
2003-07-30 07:37 | User Profile
*Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jul 28 2003, 11:59 * ** [url=http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html]http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html[/url][QUOTE] Top German AcesÃÂ KillsÃÂ CommentsÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ MedalÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ UnitÃÂ EastÃÂ WestÃÂ PlaneÃÂ 1. Erich HartmannÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ 352ÃÂ First kill Nov. 1942ÃÂ KCOSDÃÂ ÃÂ JG 52 352ÃÂ -ÃÂ Bf 109 **
Let's not forget the fate of Erich Hartman (Bubi) - the topmost fighter-pilot ace ever. At the end of the war he surrendered to the Americans, expecting a fair treatment according to the Geneva conventions. How wrong he was! The Americans promptly handed him over to the Soviets and he spent the next 10 years of his life in a Gulag camp. He was released in 1955!
2003-07-30 13:39 | User Profile
Rudel (Posted on Jul 30 2003, 08:37)> **Let's not forget the fate of Erich Hartman (Bubi) - the topmost fighter-pilot ace ever. At the end of the war he surrendered to the Americans, expecting a fair treatment according to the Geneva conventions. How wrong he was! The Americans promptly handed him over to the Soviets and he spent the next 10 years of his life in a Gulag camp. He was released in 1955! ** It is my understanding that Hartman explained to the Russians his technique for shooting down planes. He would espy an enemy plane from afar and speed right for it. He would wait for his windshield to fill up with the enemy plane then fire his guns. After the plane was shot down, Hartman did not hang around, but retreated straight to base, got drunk, shat the bed and did it all once again the next day.
The American air force with many hand flyers never appreciated his skill and thoughts. The Russians did. His methods were exceptionally useful to non-skilled fliers such as the Koreans were. The record of the United States Air Force during the Korean War was never as illustrious as we would like to believe. Our disgraceful treatment of Hartman was avenged in Korea.
2003-07-30 14:15 | User Profile
Leland Gaunt (Posted on Jul 30 2003, 14:54)> QUOTE (edward gibbon @ Jul 30 2003, 07:39 ) > After the plane was shot down, Hartman did not hang around, but retreated straight to base, got drunk, shat the bed and did it all once again the next day.**
If I were to tell you what you are, I would probably get banned for life from this board.** Give it a try. [color=yellow]Yellow Polichinello [/color]did. From a different aspect he was just as immature and deceitful as you are. Stick your hand in your shorts and grab tight. Then pound the keyboard.