← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Hilaire Belloc
Thread ID: 8387 | Posts: 25 | Started: 2003-07-23
2003-07-23 21:52 | User Profile
I saw a similar discussion at Stormfront and thought it'd be an interesting topic to discuss here.
For me, my favorite are Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, and Tchaikovsky. I also like some of Wagner's music(Tannhauser being my favorite of his operas). I very much like music from the Baroque and Neo-Classical eras. I like some of the Romantic era music as well.
Share your thoughts, including other composers you think should be up there(but remember I could only limit the choices to ten). ;)
:rock: :punk: :punk: :punk: :rock:
2003-07-24 01:56 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Jul 23 2003, 19:22 * My favorites* are Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms.
But since Bach is the best, I have voted for him. There is no place for subjective opinion in contests of this kind.
Wintermute**
Bach, ohne Frage.
2003-07-24 09:23 | User Profile
Bach is surely the greatest musical genius who ever lived. Beethoven is next. Listening to their sublime music thrills me. I also enjoy Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi, Wagner & Debussy.
2003-07-24 13:17 | User Profile
I like Mozart and Wagner.
2003-07-24 13:28 | User Profile
My all time favorites are Puccini's Tosca and Verdi's Aida. I agree with the rest though; BACH, is the ultimate genius. Many or most of these great men of yore were none to shy to give all glory to God Almighty in their music. No wonder their music still lives on after 400 years. :hyp:
2003-07-24 16:37 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche+Jul 24 2003, 01:56 -->
QUOTE (NeoNietzsche @ Jul 24 2003, 01:56 ) <!--QuoteBegin-wintermute@Jul 23 2003, 19:22 * My favorites* are Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms. But since Bach is the best, I have voted for him. There is no place for subjective opinion in contests of this kind.
Wintermute**
Bach, ohne Frage.**
Beethoven and especially, Bach ohne frage - without question? Everyone knows that the Nazi's distrusted the Christian context of Beethoven and especially Bach's music, preferring the music of Wagner and Grieg.
It was a fact that skillful alied propagandists exploited quite successfully in WWII among Christian, conservative, even isolationist leaning factions of the populace - that the U.S. was actually fighting for the western Christian civilization against the barbaric Nazi "Huns" who wished to position themselves as its destroyers.
A regrettable NS position today's NAers seem to be doing their best to propogate. (Except for Bach - tush, tush, what kind of NS ideologists are you? :lol: )
Hilaire Belloc
2003-07-24 17:04 | User Profile
**Beethoven and especially, Bach ohne frage - without question? Everyone knows that the Nazi's distrusted the Christian context of Beethoven and especially Bach's music, preferring the music of Wagner and Grieg. **
That's not entirely true. Alfred Rosenberg praised Beethoven as a true genius who represented the artistic greatness of the Aryan people. Here's even a article about Rosenberg's admiration for Beethoven(and Bach) from VNN [url=http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/showEssay.asp?essayID=211]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/sho...asp?essayID=211[/url]
As they say in the end
March 26th, 2002, marks the 175th anniversary of Beethoven's death. All people of European descent should strive to commemorate this great man's artistic achievements on this signal day. Push away the refuse of our present Negrified and Jewified existence. Listen instead to the Ninth Symphony, the Emperor Concerto or the Egmont Overture. European culture knows no higher musical form than Ludwig van Beethoven's art. And once you've imbibed from the cup of grand, high culture, there's no going back to the garbage of our parasites.
I believe it was just Hitler who personally didn't care for Beethoven but prefered Wagner's music.
madrussian
2003-07-24 23:33 | User Profile
Okie's world is crumbling :lol:
Hilaire Belloc
2003-07-25 00:47 | User Profile
A few scholars even see the Fidelio as a retelling of the Isis/Osiris myth, which incorporates details from Plutarch, no less.
Didn't performances of Fidelio actually increase during Hitler's time in power? I know that the National Socialists glorified the opera in some way or another.
BTW, I love Fidelio.
:rock: to Beethoven's Symphonies :punk: :punk: :punk:
Okiereddust
2003-07-25 01:04 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jul 24 2003, 23:33 * Okie's world is crumbling :lol:*
He still hasn't got to Bach or Haydn yet ;)
jay
2003-07-25 14:09 | User Profile
Mozart, not even close.
I thought that polls like this were like asking who the greatest baseball player of all time is: Babe Ruth. It's just accepted by everyone. How can anyone really dispute Mozart?
He wrote by far the most complex and original music, and died at 35 before he could do more.
-Jay
Hilaire Belloc
2003-07-25 17:45 | User Profile
This poll is bogus...it is too Eurocentric and excludes the best part of the Caucasian species, the mighty Hindus. I vote we include the immortal RAVI SHANKAR in this group.
Well you're free to create your own poll that includes Ravi Shankar if you wish(though I doubt many people would vote for him). I'm primarily focusing on European classical music. I'm not forcing you to read this poll or even partake in it.
I thought that polls like this were like asking who the greatest baseball player of all time is: Babe Ruth. It's just accepted by everyone. How can anyone really dispute Mozart?
Well according to the poll not everybody thinks so. Many believe Beethoven and Bach were the greatest.
I'm not forcing anybody to vote either way or the other, if you think this poll is somewhat ridiculas than don't vote or discuss in it!
:rock: :punk: :punk: :rock:
Gott
2003-08-01 13:29 | User Profile
There are a lot of 'the greatest' composer - as western civilization was once inexhaustibly creative. No one wrote better operas than Verdi, except Donizetti, Bellini, Rossini and a bunch of others. No one wrote better German operas than Wagner, except Beethoven, Lortzing, Strauss, etc. No one wrote greater symphonies than Beethoven, except Schubert, etc. etc. And the great religoius music...where do you even start?
That was then, this is now and the reason is the JEW.
Gott
2003-08-03 17:50 | User Profile
Do you mean James Levine from the Metropolitan Opera? He got a job in Munich, but certainly not as head of the Munich opera. Because of Levine's well known interest in underage black boys, he was given a rather remarkably long and totally humiliating raking over the coals before he got a gig in Munich, but as assistant director of the local symphony, I believe.
If it is James Levine, he is certainly not head of the Munich opera - and as head of the Metropolitan Opera he is a deadly bore. He has worked long and hard (over 25 years) with the Met orchestra and under him they play very well, with great ensemble - but it is dead, dead, dead. If you want to convince your friends that European music is boring, then buy some Levine recordings. His opera house (the Met) is more about embalming than living music, under his totally untalented jew hands. Metha is a sh*tty conductor and a very bad person, that's what counts. He tried to slander and destroy a wonderful American singer in Munich (Cheryl Studer) and one of the things he accused her of is being anti semitic. He also said her voice was irreparably ruined - an argument which a series of concerts she immediately undertook totally demolished. The Munich opera was forced to settle to her advantage in a very messy and typically jew-ugly scandal.
Gott
2003-08-03 19:06 | User Profile
I think Gergiev is a fine conductor - fiery and committed. It isn't going through the motions with him the way it is with Levine. I suppose he was given some Russian rep. at the Met? I know some of his performances from the Mariinsky in St. Petersburg and I like everything I have heard so far.
Levine doesn't like competition, and with his dismal lack of talent, I can understand why, so I doubt a big international star like Gergiev was given the warmest welcome there. They usually do what they can to make sure that guys like him are sidelined as effectively as possible so darling 'Jimmy' can continue to be the jew wonder boy. That guy (Levine) must be pushing 60 and he is still referred to as Jimmy? God, jews are weird.
Christian Thielemann is a fantastically good conductor, who also occasionally guests at the Met. He mostly works at Bayreuth and in Berlin, and mostly conducts Wagner and Strauss. I've been told he is an ardent German Nationalist and that is why Simon Rattle got the Berlin Philharmonic gig instead of Thielemann.
Are you a fan of the Russian repertory?
Dan Dare
2003-08-03 19:09 | User Profile
I'm going for Ha(e)ndel, since he's the only Englishman on the list.
Faust
2003-08-03 19:14 | User Profile
Hard to disagree with.
**How can anyone really dispute Mozart? He wrote by far the most complex and original music, and died at 35 before he could do more."-Jay **
Faust
2003-08-03 19:17 | User Profile
Dan Dare,
What!
I'm going for Ha(e)ndel, since he's the only Englishman on the list.
**George Frideric Handel (1685-1759)
(born Halle (Germany), 23 February 1685; died London, 14 April 1759).
He was born Georg Friederich HÃÆändel, son of a barber-surgeon who intended him for the law. At first he practised music clandestinely, but his father was encouraged to allow him to study and he became a pupil of Zachow, the principal organist in Halle. When he was 17 he was appointed organist of the Calvinist Cathedral, but a year later he left for Hamburg. There he played the violin and harpsichord in the opera house, where his Almira was given at the beginning of 1705, soon followed by his Nero. The next year he accepted an invitation to Italy, where he spent more than three years, in Florence, Rome, Naples and Venice. He had operas or other dramatic works given in all these cities (oratorios in Rome, including La resurrezione) and, writing many Italian cantatas, perfected his technique in setting Italian words for the human voice. In Rome he also composed some Latin church music.
He left Italy early in 1710 and went to Hanover, where he was appointed Kapellmeister to the elector. But he at once took leave to take up an invitation to London, where his opera Rinaldo was produced early in 1711. Back in Hanover, he applied for a second leave and returned to London in autumn 1712. Four more operas followed in 1712-15, with mixed success; he also wrote music for the church and for court and was awarded a royal pension. In 1716 he may have visited Germany (where possibly he set Brockes's Passion text); it was probably the next year that he wrote the Water Music to serenade George I at a river-party on the Thames. In 1717 he entered the service of the Earl of Carnarvon (soon to be Duke of Chandos) at Edgware, near London, where he wrote 11 anthems and two dramatic works, the evergreen Acis and Galatea and Esther, for the modest band of singers and players retained there.
In 1718-19 a group of noblemen tried to put Italian opera in London on a firmer footing, and launched a company with royal patronage, the Royal Academy of Music; Handel, appointed musical director, went to Germany, visiting Dresden and poaching several singers for the Academy, which opened in April 1720. Handel's Radamisto was the second opera and it inaugurated a noble series over the ensuing years including Ottone, Giulio Cesare, Rodelinda, Tamerlano and Admeto. Works by Bononcini (seen by some as a rival to Handel) and others were given too, with success at least equal to Handel's, by a company with some of the finest singers in Europe, notably the castrato Senesino and the soprano Cuzzoni. But public support was variable and the financial basis insecure, and in 1728 the venture collapsed. The previous year Handel, who had been appointed a composer to the Chapel Royal in 1723, had composed four anthems for the coronation of George II and had taken British naturalization.
Opera remained his central interest, and with the Academy impresario, Heidegger, he hired the King's Theatre and (after a journey to Italy and Germany to engage fresh singers) embarked on a five-year series of seasons starting in late 1729. Success was mixed. In 1732 Esther was given at a London musical society by friends of Handel's, then by a rival group in public; Handel prepared to put it on at the King's Theatre, but the Bishop of London banned a stage version of a biblical work. He then put on Acis, also in response to a rival venture. The next summer he was invited to Oxford and wrote an oratorio, Athalia, for performance at the Sheldonian Theatre. Meanwhile, a second opera company ('Opera of the Nobility', including Senesino) had been set up in competition with Handel's and the two competed for audiences over the next four seasons before both failed. This period drew from Handel, however, such operas as Orlando and two with ballet, Ariodante and Alcina, among his finest scores.
During the rest of the 1730s Handel moved between Italian opera and the English forms, oratorio, ode and the like, unsure of his future commercially and artistically. After a joumey to Dublin in 1741-2, where Messiah had its premiere (in aid of charities), he put opera behind him and for most of the remainder of his life gave oratorio performances, mostly at the new Covent Garden theatre, usually at or close to the Lent season. The Old Testament provided the basis for most of them (Samson, Belshazar, Joseph. Joshua, Solomon, for example), but he sometimes experimented, turning to classical mythology (Semele, Hercules) or Christian history (Theodora), with little public success. All these works, along with such earlier ones as Acis and his two Cecilian odes (to Dryden words), were performed in concert form in English. At these performances he usually played in the interval a concerto on the organ (a newly invented musical genre) or directed a concerto grosso (his op.6, a set of 12, published in 1740, represents his finest achievement in the form).
During his last decade he gave regular performances of Messiah, usually with about 16 singers and an orchestra of about 40, in aid of the Foundling Hospital. In 1749 he wrote a suite for wind instruments (with optional strings) for performance in Green Park to accompany the Royal Fireworks celebrating the Peace of Aix-la-Chapelle. His last oratorio, composed as he grew blind, was Jephtha (1752); The Triumph of Time and Truth (1757) is largely composed of earlier material. Handel was very economical in the re-use of his ideas; at many times in his life he also drew heavily on the music of others (though generally avoiding detection) - such 'borrowings' may be of anything from a brief motif to entire movements, sometimes as they stood but more often accommodated to his own style.
Handel died in 1759 and was buried in Westminster Abbey, recognized in England and by many in Germany as the greatest composer of his day. The wide range of expression at his command is shown not only in the operas, with their rich and varied arias, but also in the form he created, the English oratorio, where it is applied to the fates of nations as well as individuals. He had a vivid sense of drama. But above all he had a resource and originality of invention, to be seen in the extraordinary variety of music in the op.6 concertos, for example, in which melodic beauty, boldness and humour all play a part, that place him and J.S. Bach as the supreme masters of the Baroque era in music.
Extracted with permission from The Grove Concise Dictionary of Music edited by Stanley Sadie ̩̉ Macmillan Press Ltd., London. This project was created by Matt Boynick. ̩̉ 1 February 1996
[url=http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/handel.html]http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/handel.html[/url]**
Dan Dare
2003-08-04 01:13 | User Profile
Faust it was just my little joke. :)
I really voted for him because of his 40+ operas and 20-odd oratorios.
Conservative
2003-08-04 10:06 | User Profile
My favorite is Mozart, though I do like the works of many others (I can't spell any of this, by the way): Handel, Hyden, Bach, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Tchakovsky, Rossini, Strauss (supposedly part Jewish), Mendelsson (Jewish composer, I've heard), Wagner, Dvorak, Offenbach (Jewish?), etc.
I don't care for Operas though, or anything else with words to it under the classical genre.
Regards,
Ares
Conservative
2003-08-04 10:29 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Aug 4 2003, 04:14 * ** > I don't care for Oprahs though*
Neither do I, Ares, neither do I.
That Geraldo fella is more than a little irritating, too.
Wintermute **
Hello Wintermute,
Please delete your irrational post. Thanks.
Ares
Gott
2003-08-04 15:41 | User Profile
Dear Ares, Johan Strauss Jr. had one jewish grand (or I think it was maybe great grand) parent, so he had a little jew in him. Mendelssohn was jewish be birth but converted and wrote a lot of Christian church music including a highly anti semitic (as in, honest) oratorio called St. Paul. Offenbach was totally a jew - and even though his operettas are full of tuneful little ditties - his work is smart-assed, vulgar jewish through and through.
relevant1
2003-08-04 19:12 | User Profile
I voted for Mozart but my close second is of course Beethoven. My favorite modern classical composer is Carl Orff and his masterpiece Carmina. And I mean the original full Carmina Burana not one of the many abridged versions out there.
If Usenet mp3 file sharing is any indication of current classical taste, Mozart is king. Everything Mozart wrote, Philipsââ¬â¢ Complete Mozart Edition of 180 cds has been the most popular classical mp3 Usenet download in history.
Dan Dare
2003-08-05 01:39 | User Profile
**My favorite modern classical composer is Carl Orff **
Orff is an interesting one. From all accounts he composed Carmina Burana in 1937 expressly for the Nazi cultural establishment. He was also asked to rewrite Mendelsohn's "Midsummer Night's Dream" after Richard Strauss refused, but the project never came to fruition.
Orff probably has the greatest claim of any to be being the 'official' Nazi composer.
And yet, in this month's BBC Music Magazine, the reviewer of the book "Composers of Classical Music of Jewish Descent" indicates that Orff had Jewish roots.
I have never seen that claimed before.
Anybody have further insight into this?
relevant1
2003-08-05 04:59 | User Profile
"Orff had Jewish roots"
I sure hope not dan dare, but it is of no matter to me as Jews do so like to play the paranoia game by trying to infer that Jews are everywhere and that everyone who has attained fame has a Jew in the woodpile.
I know Orff was castigated and his works minimized by the Jew music reviewers of his time after WWII merely because he was a German who managed to live through the Jew's Second Great War. But Orff managed to outlive all of his critics passing at 87. He was a devoted Roman Catholic, and I have not seen anything to doubt that his stock was racially 100% German going back into the Middle Ages.
In creating Carmina Burana from the songs found at the Bavarian Benedictbeuern, Orff merged combine the best of Greek and Roman antiquities with Medieval French, Italian and German zest for life. No contamination of the Jew is to be found in his music whatsoever. It is spiritual and sensual, and towers above the Jew schlock of modern Jewish composers like Copeland and the rest.