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Thread 8246

Thread ID: 8246 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-07-19

godlesscapitalist [OP]

2003-07-19 06:12 | User Profile

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Okiereddust

2003-07-19 07:34 | User Profile

Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Jul 19 2003, 06:12 * I could continue, but I think that rban* has already revealed himself to be a caricature. Please don't let his "Hindu supremacism" turn you off to other South Asians in the US. We do not think alike - I promise.

Ah, guess that was a bit more digressive than I'd planned, and much more of a letter than a post...oh well. Anyway, hope to see some of you at Gene Expression, and I'll probably return to this board in the near future.**

Rban of course is neither Asian or Hindu (except maybe in a common western dilettante sense). I think he just uses Eastern religions and affiliations as many rootless postmodernists use them - as a sort of ersatz, and in the European/postmodernist outlook politically correct - substitution for real religion and cultural roots. Obviously in his case he uses it purely as a cultural cloak to express his hatred of western culture and peoples. I can understand your concern, just as real Christians are still concerned and feel and need to exhibit sensitivity about the implications of the Crusade's legacy in our current middle east involvements, as well as its colonial legacy in the region from the British, French, and Zionists.

Your forum sounds interesting, but except for a couple of us here (MWDallas and AntiYuppie come to mind) most of us are not really versed on the scientific methodologies of evolutionary psychology. We are mostly just interested in a few very basic political conclusions it has drawn which seem self-evident to us from our anecdotal experience, which MacDonald helps to characterize somewhat better.

I do appreciate your interest and willingness to engage these sorts of issues. Not everyone is - Kevin MacDonald is banned as "hate literature" in Europe, in spite of its undeniable merits of his work, albeit controversial due to its subject matter. While thus somewhat skeptical, I retain a hope that the academic community eventually will engage issus such as MacDonald brings up, rather than just ignore them as with other lines of thought that challenge certain politically correct precepts. Jerod Taylor and American Renaissance also of course tend to belong in this general category intellectually/academically.

I would like to welcome you to this forum. We are a free speech forum expressing a wide variety of viewpoints, as you will note, but I am sure ther are many things about MacDonald's work and the field of evolutionary psychology in general you can help to enlighten us about.

Faust

2003-07-19 19:58 | User Profile

A very good statement of India's problem.

It is true that there are millions of intelligent South Asians, but they are mostly Hindus from the upper castes (along with Parsis, Sikhs, and - yes - many Muslims). In my opinion, India will not be first world so long as it suffer the economic burden imposed by 500 million academically/economically noncompetitive lower castes. It does not matter whether these lower castes are devout Hindus or not...they simply do not have very high IQs. This is the major problem with rban's brand of militant Hindu universalism. Trite though it sounds, all Hindus are not smart, and all Muslims are not dumb.

Lady_America

2003-07-19 20:16 | User Profile

*Originally posted by godlesscapitalist@Jul 19 2003, 00:12 * ** Hi,

ÃÂ ÃÂ I'm one of the bloggers at [url=http://gnxp.com]Gene Expression/url. It's a site with a focus similar to this one, though with more science and slightly less politics. Like Texas Dissident, I believe controversial topics (like race, genetics, etc.) can and should be discussed without undue hostility. I've got more of a centrist/neoliberal opinion on matters than many of the paleocons here, but I think that we agree on fundamentals. (i.e., races are real, genetic differences are important, communism and Islam cause economic backwardness, IQ differences are important, etc.).

ÃÂ ÃÂ Anyway, I thought you guys might be interested in this [url=http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000756.html]thread[/url] in particular. It's on what I think is the kernel of truth in Kevin MacDonald's theories. I'm not sure if you know him, but Kevin MacDonald is the fellow who wrote about Ashkenazi Jewish evolutionary group strategies. While I think much of his work was confused, and that it was not really "evolutionary psychology" (there was no quantitative or experimental data whatsoever in his books), I do think there was a core of truth in what he was saying. The linked post is my attempt to cut away the shrubbery.

ÃÂ ÃÂ By the way, as a South Asian-ancestry professional born in the US, I must say that rban is an embarassment. I'd like to address some of the issues he's discussed:

**The number of smart South Asians **

It is true that there are millions of intelligent South Asians, but they are mostly Hindus from the upper castes (along with Parsis, Sikhs, and - yes - many Muslims). In my opinion, India will not be first world so long as it suffer the economic burden imposed by 500 million academically/economically noncompetitive lower castes. It does not matter whether these lower castes are devout Hindus or not...they simply do not have very high IQs. This is the major problem with rban's brand of militant Hindu universalism. Trite though it sounds, all Hindus are not smart, and all Muslims are not dumb.

Caste divisions are invisible to the white American, but they reveal much once you know about them. At the risk of oversimplifying: most of the cab drivers and convenience store owners in the US are Vaishyas. Most of the professionals, physicians, and engineers are Brahmins along with some Kshatriyas. Placing this filter over South Asians in the US gives you insight into the difference between Apu and Vinod KhoslaÃÂ ;)

As for Pakistan's Muslims, there is a Pakistani diaspora in the United States that is very competitive with the Indians in terms of income, SAT scores, education, etcetera. In the UK, Pakistanis commit many more crimes than Indians...I presume that a less educated slice of the population is represented there, though it could also be the effects of Islam.ÃÂ

**The prospects for a Hindu takeover of the US **

This is almost too laughable to deal with...but what the heck. I do believe that South Asians in the United States could potentially rival Jews for political influence if they had larger numbers, but I think it's doubtful that such organization will take place. In any case, both South Asians born in the US and Jews are intermarrying with white gentiles at >50% rates, so in the long run (pre-genetic engineering) the interests of gentiles, Jews, and South Asians will converge anyay. (see Census for intermarriage rates. refs upon request.)

The question of whether Indians are "Aryans"

This is rather irrelevant. Most mathematical endeavors in India (including IT, mathematics, drug development, etcetera) are disproportionately driven by South Indians, many of whom are very dark Tamil and Telugu speaking Dravidians. Now, there are intelligent "Aryan looking" North Indians, but in India caste is IMO more highly correlated with IQ than appearance. As there have been no large scale studies of IQ in India to date, one has to infer caste's importance from the proliferation of caste (rather than appearance) based quotas and from the occasional article like [url=http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:AUMQ85GRIR8J:www.the-week.com/22nov10/cover.htm+the+resilient+brahmin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]this one[/url] on the status of Brahmins.

I could continue, but I think that rban has already revealed himself to be a caricature. Please don't let his "Hindu supremacism" turn you off to other South Asians in the US. We do not think alike - I promise.

Went to the link and found this as well,

**Africa & AIDS From The Economist:

A Ã¢â¬ÅPEACEFUL virusÃ¢â¬Â, is how Colonel Muammar Qaddafi described HIV to the African Union this week. Along with malaria and sleeping sickness, the Libyan leader said, it is God's way of keeping white colonisers out of Africa. **

I wished Qaddafi's comment would go further, " ...it is God's way of keeping white colonisers [color=red]and the trillions of dollars those colonisers grant African nations in form of military aid, foreign aid, charitable aids, peace corp aid, etc. etc.[/color] out of Africa."

Ruffin

2003-07-19 21:30 | User Profile

(That said, I don't know how much aid his country's gotten...perhaps they shouldn't have engaged in the Lockerbie bombing, hmmm )

Haven't you heard, they didn't.

Ruffin

2003-07-20 00:44 | User Profile

Originally posted by godlesscapitalist+Jul 19 2003, 16:30 -->
QUOTE (godlesscapitalist @ Jul 19 2003, 16:30 )

QUOTE* (Prodigal Son @ Jul 20 2003, 23:36 )
<!--QuoteBegin-godlesscapitalist@Jul 19 2003, 00:12 * ** In my opinion, India will not be first world so long as it suffer the economic burden imposed by 500 million academically/economically noncompetitive lower castes **

Where exactly is the dividing line between lower and higher castes?**

godless capitalist would might appreciate the irony or he might not, if he was still here. But when you look at the horrid mess of India's caste system, there is only one answer to your question -

**God only knows :rolleyes: **

Conservative

2003-07-22 08:23 | User Profile

Hello godlesscapitalist,

Keep in mind that the very Jews you may have positive feelings for are the very same Jews that are responsible for the economic sanctions against your country of India since India has a nuclear program and Jews only want Isael to have nukes. You don't see Jews pushing for economic sanctions against Israel for having nukes. The truth is that most Jews wish to harm ALL Gentiles, regardless of whether they are White, Black, Indian, or Asian.

Regards,

Ares