← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Zvaci

Thread 7612

Thread ID: 7612 | Posts: 46 | Started: 2003-06-25

Zvaci [OP]

2003-06-25 11:58 | User Profile

Arrival of Serbs to Croatia by Ivo Rojnica Hrvatsko Slovo, Zagreb, Croatia. Although it would be necessary and useful to take a careful look at the arrival of Serbs to Croatia, the topic that received a lot of attention in the past, I will only address the period between 1918 and 1990. After the creation of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, created by the victors after WWI, the English and the French, or better said, the state that was imposed without consultation and against the will of the Croat people, the protected and privileged Serbs used three types or modes of serbization of Croatia.

The self-governing Serb Orthodox church treated all Eastern Orthodox believers in Croatia as Serbs, although they included citizens of various Balkan ethnic groups, and as such it forced them through Orthodox churches, by religious instruction in schools, army, police and state administration, whose chiefs were mostly Serbs.

Then followed the building of Eastern Orthodox churches all over Croatia, wherever there were military garrisons, police stations, for the religious conversion of Croats.

The colonization of Serbs in Croatia by method of agrarian reform, when they confiscated from the Croat people land and paid for it with useless certificates that they never paid for.

That was a legalized theft for settling Serbs, volunteers from WWI and Montenegrins.

Settling of Serbs in Croatia and Confiscation of Croat Property As early as in 1923, Dr. Milan Ivsic in his book established that 7253 volunteers were settled on about of one third of land obtained in the agrarian reform. Dr. Mladen Lorkovic in his work "People and Land of Croats" tried to establish and compare the volume of Serb colonization using the Yugoslav census from 1931. He says: "the increase in Serb population is not natural, but is the consequence of colonization of volunteers and colonists. 25 volunteer settlements were constructed near Osijek, and the same number near Vukovar. Between 20,000 and 25,000 persons were settled."

Dr. Milan Stojadinovic was one of the main factors of the Serb colonists in the Zagreb office for agrarian reform. The peasant rebellion in Kerestinec happened because of these colonists.

Due to settlement of Serb WWI volunteers in the Virovitica municipality the number of Croats fell from 80% in 1918 to 60%.

After the entry of Stjepan Radic into the Belgrade government, Pavle Radic and Gjuro Basaricek started to collect data about agrarian reform and colonization of Serbs on the account of Croats. They established that out of 50 colonies in Osijek and Vukovar regions, not a single one was a Croat colony. Then Pavle Radic and Gjuro Basaricek founded two Croat colonies. For full seven years the Serb press hadn't paid attention to the colonization but as soon as they found out about two Croat colonies, and in Croatia, Politika and other papers made a big deal, because Serbs were allegedly endangered. One newspaper suggested that those who work on the formation of Croat colonies should be killed. It should be mentioned that the assassin Punisa Racic, after killing Basaricek, told Stjepan Radic: "I've been looking for you!"

The situation was similar in Bosnia-Hercegovina. There 6,394 families were settled. If we take 5 persons per family on average, that means that more than 30,000 persons were settled.

The second plan for settlement in Croatia consisted of sending of frequently illiterate Serb clerks, who replaced professional staff from Croatia.

Serbdom and Eastern Orthodox Church Even if they married Croat women, their children had to be baptized in an Eastern Orthodox church. We know well that for Serbs the Eastern Orthodox Church and Serbdom are identical terms. Serbs were appointed to more senior positions so that Croat clerks were left to their mercy. It is well known to what extent the Serb church was privileged. In 1921, the Serb Orthodox Church received state assistance from the budget amounting to 141,264,026 dinars, while the Catholic Church received 13,855,200 dinars.

Wherever there were Serb policemen, there an Eastern Orthodox church was built, at the best spot and on state expense.

Thus they built churches in Susak, Ston, on the island of Vis, in Maribor, Ljubljana, Celje etc. to let the foreigners who pass through see that Serbs are everywhere.

By the creation of the second Yugoslavia in 1945 Serbs gained total hegemony over the Croat people. The period between 1945 and 1990 has to be thoroughly investigated. Property of declared war criminals was looted and confiscated; in other words, the enemies of the people (which people?) were dispossessed in colonization, Serb colonies were set up along the Croatian Adriatic shore, [vacation] homes and spas were built in all larger towns for retired Serb military personnel. I will only mention Zagreb and Split.

In Split they built a whole settlement for 10,000 retired Serb officers, named Split 3.

They did the same in Zagreb. I've seen both with my own eyes. It will have to be established how many Serbs were settled and colonized in Croatia between 1918 and 1990 because in that period Coratia was occupied by Serbia.

Immigration and settlement of Serbs in that period is illegal. Those Serbs must leave the territory of the Republic of Croatia.

Russia occupied east and central Europe, where it stationed large military forces, which had to pull out from those countries after the liberation from the Russian occupation. These countries are Poland, Hungary, the former Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania. For Czechoslovakia, I know that it had 65,000 occupiers, while we should find out through Croat embassies the overall number of the mentioned occupation Russian forces.

The Republic of Croatia must demand that all Serbs settled between 1918 and 1990, during the occupation of Croatia, leave.

Serbs who were in mixed marriages and those who were born in Croatia and behaved correctly as citizens of Croatia, who did not bloody their hands, terrorize or maltreat Croats, can ask for permission to be given the Croatian citizenship.

Alka

2003-06-25 15:05 | User Profile

Wondeful post Zvaci. Many thanks for your time in writing this excellent expose. I hope you will not mind if I repost this on other forums to those who do not know the real history (only the propaganda). Not many people - even Hrvati - know the horrifying details of the Serbification of Hrvatska.

My own family used to be extremely wealthy and powerful. Of course this made us a target, not only by the Italians and Germans but certainly the communists... They confiscated all of our lands after WWII, and persecuted our family intensely, despite the fact that one of my father's siblings was a partizan war hero (probably the only thing saving us from a worse fate), forcing most of us to flee the country for our very lives. My own grandfather was thrown into the worst political prisons (yes the pulral is correct) for the simple crime of having been an educated and wealthy Hrvat, released after being tortured... Our land - which is today some of the most expensive real estate in Hrvatska - was taken by the Srb-dominated communists and used for residential buildings etc. in which primarily Srbi and their communist/Jewish loyalists were settled.

I wonder if there are that many Hrvati whose property was confiscated by the Srbi who have successfully petitioned for the return of their stolen lands etc. I doubt the government could afford to return to us our ancestral land that was stolen by Srbi and their Jewish communist friends, as it is worth too much today. But still, what if... sigh

The Republic of Croatia must demand that all Serbs settled between 1918 and 1990, during the occupation of Croatia, leave.

Agreed 100%. This should happen sooner rather than later, with the current political parties/politicians in place it will never happen (idiots every single one), hopefully more pro-Hrvati right-wing parties will win power and favour soon.

**Serbs who were in mixed marriages and those who were born in Croatia and behaved correctly as citizens of Croatia, who did not bloody their hands, terrorize or maltreat Croats, can ask for permission to be given the Croatian citizenship. **

I don't know about this. I'm in favour of expelling them all. I believe that only Hrvati should be allowed to retain citizenship, all others should only hold landed immigrant status, and property/business ownership rights of non-Hrvati should be severly curtailed, In my eyes those who chose to continue living in the 'occupied' territories are as guilty as those who rose up and slaughtered innocent Hrvati without any provocation whatsoever. Futhermore any true Hrvat out there knows for a fact that Srbi are united in their desire to wipe us out. Any Hrvat who intermarries with a Srb is a [race] traitor of the worst sort in my eyes - I am more understanding of those who intermarry with any other European ethnicity... Although I feel greaty sympathy for the children of such marriages, they must truly feel torn, if they renounced their Srb halves I would feel more kindly.

serbianfire

2003-06-25 17:38 | User Profile

So, will you prevent my stepping foot onto the RSK/Petrinje this July/August?

Alka

2003-06-25 17:50 | User Profile

Go wherever you please. As long as you're peaceful, non-disruptive, reasonable and pro peace in the region I have no problems. Especially if you put $$$ into the local economies. Why do you think anyone would care where you visited or not?

Instead of responding to a thread articulately and intelligently all you have done is bait. This is not an action I respect: it is the behaviour of a troll.

If you disagree, then do so, I would appreciate hearing your side of the story even if I disagree with it strongly - that's what freedom is about after all - but if you continue to do nothing but provoke you will be ignored. Your choice.

serbianfire

2003-06-25 18:24 | User Profile

Your political/racist attitude is none to be respected as I've recieved threats already for my bike ride, mainly from Croats. Need to know, precautions as I tend to not spend any money except in areas that benefit Serbs only.

Rent is due from you guys for holding my land of Petrinje. Your peacefulness is not conducive to concillitory relations among neighbors. Ever set foot in Kosovo lately? Much like setting foot in Ustroatia, dark/damp and tension.

Tell Gotovina, he and I can have Pivo for lunch on July 30 in the Krajina, I will be on my bike.

serbianfire

2003-06-25 22:28 | User Profile

Originally posted by Zvaci@Jun 25 2003, 05:58 * *Arrival of Serbs to Croatia by Ivo Rojnica Hrvatsko Slovo, Zagreb, Croatia.

Look at the source, clear bigotry. Pure Ustashe :dung:

Ask Gotovina if he cares to share a drink in Petrinje RSK. This past week, I discovered some relatives from Petrinje that I aim to look up.

Zvaci

2003-06-26 04:07 | User Profile

Originally posted by serbianfire+Jun 25 2003, 16:28 -->
QUOTE (serbianfire @ Jun 25 2003, 16:28 )

QUOTE* (Walter Yannis @ Jun 29 2003, 11:30 )
<!--QuoteBegin-max soldo@Jun 29 2003, 17:15 * ** Thanks for the kind words.ÃÂ I'm an unabashed Croatian nationalist with classical liberal leanings.ÃÂ I'm hoping to make it in time for the Alka this summer as I'm leaving for Europe in about a week and a half. **

Please forgive my callowness, but what role if any did Catholicism play in Croation nationalism?

Was it an organizing force as it was in, say, Ireland or Poland?

Walter **

IMO The confession is just the uniform in the conflict, much like in Northern Ireland where Catolic=Irish and Protestant=English. However our conflict is more national than religious, I dont have bad feelings against Orthodox people as Orthodox - quite opposite, I like Orthodox Ukrainians more than Katolic Polaks forinstance. We even had Ukrainian Ustashas on the Russian front duringWW2:

[url=http://www.geocities.com/ssgalitsija/Ustasha.html]http://www.geocities.com/ssgalitsija/Ustasha.html[/url]

madrussian

2003-06-29 17:46 | User Profile

Not all Ukrainians are Orthodox. The ones you refer to were probably Catholic.

max soldo

2003-06-29 17:50 | User Profile

**IMO The confession is just the uniform in the conflict, much like in Northern Ireland where Catolic=Irish and Protestant=English. **

What I find funny is how certain elements try to portray the Ustashe as "clerical-fascists" when the fact of the matter is that they were far from it.

The Ustashe distrusted much of the Clergy and some argued in favour of creating a national church.

As we do know, in 1942 a Croatian Orthodox Church was created under Germogen, and we can't forget the huge role accorded to the Muslims in the state.

I agree, the problem is much, much more of a national thing than a religious thing.

max soldo

2003-06-29 17:52 | User Profile

**Not all Ukrainians are Orthodox. The ones you refer to were probably Catholic. **

You're right. Most were what we call Grkokatolici, meaning Greek Catholics.

Zvaci

2003-06-29 17:58 | User Profile

Originally posted by max soldo@Jun 29 2003, 11:44 * ** > *Our 19. century Ante Starcevic ideologist and father of the homeland was also a liberal nationalist, but his liberal thoughts does not has much with modern degenerate liberalism which is just another word for globalism and anti-nationalism. **

Of course and I concur. Classical liberalism of the 19th century is a far cry from today's liberalism which is barely concealed socialism.

Starcevic's position is very much important today as the various Central European states are being fought over by the EU and the US.

I very much consider myself a Starcevicist....my father's second cousin is Ante Djapic. **

I had the pleasure to introduce my self with president ÃÂapic when he was in ÃÂakovo :) Unfortunatlley our local fahr right partys are all too much in the state of disunity so I joined HOP wich was established by Poglavnik A. Pavelic himself during the second egsile. However I always vote for HSP on the elections since it is only fahr right party in the parliament.

max soldo

2003-06-29 18:00 | User Profile

What do you think of Hrvatski Blok and HIP?

What about HKDU?

And since you're from Djakovo, you might know of a few people named Kelava....they're from my turf....also, my father lived in Slakovci for a couple of years in the early 70's....

max soldo

2003-06-29 18:17 | User Profile

One more question Zvaci, what's your opinion of Josip Frank?

Zvaci

2003-06-29 18:25 | User Profile

What do you think of Hrvatski Blok and HIP?

HB is the fahr right wing of HDZ, and I respect their president IviÃÂ¦ PaÃÂ¡aliÃÂ¦ who is a great nationalist. However I think it would be much better to have one big fahr right party more than many little grups oftenlly fighting each other. You know the proverb "2 Croats - 3 partys" :(

, you might know of a few people named Kelava

Yes I do! My father is the doctor of medicine and they are his patients. How small is the world! :)

max soldo

2003-06-29 18:29 | User Profile

HB is the fahr right wing of HDZ, and I respect their president IviÃÂ¦ PaÃÂ¡aliÃÂ¦ who is a great nationalist. However I think it would be much better to have one big fahr right party more than many little grups oftenlly fighting each other. You know the proverb "2 Croats - 3 partys"

You're right. There's very little difference between HB and HIP except for the fact that there's a personality clash between Pasalic and Miroslav Tudjman.

I quite like Veselica too.

The ideal would be a HB-HIP-HKDU-HSP merger with the good guys from HDZ such as Kalmeta, and a few guys from HSLS like Josko Kontic.

At the other end, Vesna Pusic needs to be deported.

Zvaci

2003-06-29 18:29 | User Profile

*Originally posted by max soldo@Jun 29 2003, 12:17 * ** One more question Zvaci, what's your opinion of Josip Frank? **

Josip Frank was a Jew, and Pro-Habsburg - everiting Ante StarÃÂ¨eviÃÂ¦ was not. However many of his folowers was good nationalists .

Zvaci

2003-06-29 18:44 | User Profile

At the other end, Vesna Pusic needs to be deported.

She is a dirty Serb-loving, anti-fascist partisan bitch educated in Amerika and instructed in the White House by Clintonist Jewish hippys like most of leftist opposition. Deportation is too good for high-traitors like PusiÃÂ¦. I heard her partisan family has blood of the Croatian people on their hands. :thd: