← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · xmetalhead
Thread ID: 7456 | Posts: 19 | Started: 2003-06-18
2003-06-18 16:54 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]Second night of riots in Mich. city [/SIZE]
**Violence tied to death of black motorcyclist chased by police
Riots in Benton Harbor, Mich., left several buildings burned to the ground.
**
[img]http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/6f1373e66d5aaf/www.msnbc.com/news/1934405.jpg[/img]
ASSOCIATED PRESS
BENTON HARBOR, Mich., June 18 ââ¬â Police quelled a second night of disturbances after rioters protesting the death of a motorcyclist during a police chase set at least five buildings and five cars on fire. Allegations of police harassment have been a source of tension in the economically struggling city of 12,000. The rioters shot one person in the shoulder and beat and stabbed others, police said. In all, 10 to 15 people were hurt, none seriously.
Benton Township officials promised Tuesday night to examine their policy allowing high-speed police chases.
ââ¬ÅIT IS SO unnecessary. It is unbelievable to see this in our community,ââ¬Â said Samuel Harris, police chief in the city on Lake Michigan, 100 miles from Chicago.
About 150 state troopers and 100 other police officers used tear gas and other non-lethal methods to quell the violence by about 4 a.m. Wednesday.
ââ¬ÅThe idea is to try not to injure anyone but cause them enough discomfort so they will leave,ââ¬Â Harris said.
An earlier report that Gov. Jennifer Granholm had declared a state of emergency in the area turned out to be incorrect.
One of the burned buildings was a vacant two-story structure where Terrance Shurn, 28, of Benton Harbor lost control of his speeding motorcycle and crashed early Monday. Police say one other burned building was vacant and three were occupied.
At least two people in a car fired shots at officers as the vehicle drove through a police barricade and the officers returned fire. No one was hit, and the police arrested the shooters.
About 300 people joined in the second night of rioting, which began about 8:30 p.m. Officers surrounded a six- to eight-block area but held back until launching their counterattack about 2:30 a.m.
ââ¬ËWAR ZONEââ¬â¢
Police arrested at least seven people. The charges were not announced.
ââ¬ÅIt looks like a war zone. Itââ¬â¢s terrible,ââ¬Â Dorothy King, who lives near the crash site, told the South Bend (Ind.) Tribune. ââ¬ÅIââ¬â¢m scared to go to bed.ââ¬Â
Formerly a popular tourist destination, Benton Harbor has fallen into economic decline, although appliance maker Whirlpool is headquartered there.
The police chief said the rioters threatened to set fire to Benton Harbor police headquarters, the vehicles around it and city hall. He said police stood guard to protect them.
** Residents interviewed earlier Tuesday said Benton Harborââ¬â¢s problems were the result of years of police harassment.
ââ¬ÅWeââ¬â¢re tired of it now. Weââ¬â¢re tired of it,ââ¬Â Antonio Cornelius, 21, said Tuesday morning. He said he happened on the scene about midway through the first nightââ¬â¢s riots.**
His cousin, 11-year-old Trenton Patterson, was struck on a sidewalk and killed in September 2000 during a pursuit involving police from nearby Benton Township, the same department that was pursuing Shurn.
Tuesday nightââ¬â¢s crowd kept firefighters at bay as the buildings burned. Rioters attacked and injured at least two firefighters who were trying to reach the building where Shurn died.
The Herald-Palladium of St. Joseph reported media vehicles and reporters were targeted at one point as a car had its windows smashed.
FIRST NIGHT During the first nightââ¬â¢s riots, officers were outnumbered and unable to arrest any of the hundreds of residents involved. Residents burned down a building across from the crash scene and pelted police with bricks and bottles. The rioters caused extensive damage to four Benton Harbor police vehicles and caused minor damage to three others. State law allows police agencies involved in high-speed pursuits to continue their chases into neighboring police jurisdictions. Benton Township officials promised Tuesday night to examine their policy on high-speed police chases after about 70 residents and city officials questioned them at a public meeting about Shurnââ¬â¢s death. Township police Chief Jimmie Coburn said: ââ¬ÅIt probably should be changed; we will change it.ââ¬Â Police said they did not know why Shurn fled from the officers, although his operatorââ¬â¢s license had been suspended and officers found a small amount of marijuana on him, state police Lt. Joseph Zangaro said.
[url=http://www.msnbc.com/news/928099.asp?0cv=CB10&cp1=1]http://www.msnbc.com/news/928099.asp?0cv=CB10&cp1=1[/url]
2003-06-18 17:13 | User Profile
Yo buss dis.
BENTON HARBOR, Mich., June 18 ââ¬â po'lease quelled uh secon' night uh disturbances aftuh rioters protestin de death uh uh motorcyclis durin uh po'lease chase set at leas five buildins an' five cars on fire. Allegations uh po'lease harassment be uh source uh tension in de ducketally skrugglin city uh 12,000. De rioters smok'd one person in de shoulduh an' beat an' stabbed others, po'lease said. In all, 10 ta 15 folk wuz hurt, none seriously.
Benton Township officials promised Tuesday night ta examine deir policy allowin high-speed po'lease chases.
ââ¬ÅIT IS SO unneeded. It be unbelievable ta see dis in our community,ââ¬Â said Samuel Harris, po'lease chief in de city on Lake Michigan, 100 miles from Chicago. 'bout150 state troopers an' 100 othuh po'lease officers uset tear gas an' othuh non-lethal methods ta quell de violence by 'bout4 uh.m. Wednesday.
ââ¬ÅDe idea be ta try not ta injua anyone but causedem enough discomfort so dey will jet,ââ¬Â Harris said. An earliuh report dat guv. Jennifuh Granholm had declared uh state uh emergency in de isa turned out ta be incorrect. One uh de burned buildins wuz uh vacant two-story skructua where Terrance Shurn, 28, uh Benton Harbor los control uh his speedin motorcycle an' crashed early Monday, an sheeit. po'lease say one othuh burned buildin wuz vacant an' tree wuz occupied. At leas two folk in uh hoopty fired shots at officers as de '64 drove trough uh po'lease barricade an' de officers returned fire. No one wuz hit, an' de po'lease arrested de shooters.
'bout300 folk joined in de secon' night uh riotin, which began 'bout8:30 p.m. Officers surrounded uh six- ta eight-block isa but held back until launchin deir counterattack 'bout2:30 uh.m.
ââ¬ËWAR ZONEââ¬â¢ po'lease arrested at leas sevun peeps. De charges wuz not announced. ââ¬ÅIt looks likes uh war zone. Itââ¬â¢s terrible,ââ¬Â Dorothy Kin, who lives near de crash site, told de South Ben' (Ind.) Tribune. ââ¬ÅIââ¬â¢m scared ta jet ta bed.ââ¬Â
Formerly uh popular touris destination, Benton Harbor has fallen into ducket decline, 'doe appliance makuh Whirlpool be headquartard dere.
De po'lease chief said de rioters treatened ta set fire ta Benton Harbor po'lease headquarters, de vehicles 'roun it an' city hall. He said po'lease stood guard ta protectdem.
Residents interviewed earliuh Tuesday said Benton Harborââ¬â¢s problems wuz de result uh years uh po'lease harassment. ââ¬ÅWeââ¬â¢re tired uh it now. Weââ¬â¢re tired uh it,ââ¬Â Antonio Cornelius, 21, said Tuesday mornin. He said he carried his monkey ass down on de scene 'boutmidway trough de firs nightââ¬â¢s riots.
His cousin, 11-year-old Trenton Patterson, wuz skruck on uh sidewalk an' ganked in Septembuh 2000 durin uh pursuit involvin po'lease from nearby Benton Township, de same department dat wuz pursuin Shurn.
Tuesday nightââ¬â¢s crowd kept firefighters at bay as de buildins burned. Rioters attacked an' injured at leas two firefighters who wuz tryin ta reach de buildin where Shurn died.
De Herald-Palladium uh St. Joseph reported media vehicles an' reporters wuz targeted at one point as uh hoopty had its windows smashed.
FIRST NIGHT
Durin de firs nightââ¬â¢s riots, officers wuz outnumbard an' unable ta arres any uh de hundreds uh residents involved. Residents burned down uh buildin across from de crash scene an' pelted po'lease wit bricks an' bottles.
De rioters causet extensive damage ta foe Benton Harbor po'lease vehicles an' causet minor damage ta tree others. State law allows po'lease agencies involved in high-speed pursuits ta continue deir chases into neighborin po'lease jurisdictions. Benton Township officials promised Tuesday night ta examine deir policy on high-speed po'lease chases aftuh 'bout70 residents an' city officials questioneddem at uh public meetin 'boutShurnââ¬â¢s death.
Township po'lease Chief Jimmie Coburn said: ââ¬ÅIt prob'ly should be changed; we's will fix it.ââ¬Â po'lease said dey did not noed why Shurn fled from de officers, 'doe his operatorââ¬â¢s license had been suspended an' officers foun' uh small 'mount uh chronic 'n sht on him, state po'lease Lt. Joseph Zangaro said. Sheeit! peep this sht
2003-06-18 17:14 | User Profile
I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! This isn't like our African-American citizens. They're usually so calm and civil. :rolleyes:
As usual, I don't see any mention of the race of the rioters, though you don't need to be a psychic to figure it out. 99.9% of time, when you see the word "riot", blacks are involved.
2003-06-18 17:36 | User Profile
The major media has not even mentioned this at all.
2003-06-18 17:49 | User Profile
*Originally posted by heritagelost@Jun 18 2003, 17:36 * ** The major media has not even mentioned this at all. **
I saw a blurb of it on CNBC, although their top story was America's unnecessary act of catching an Iraqi, simply because he was an aide to Saddam Hussein.
2003-06-18 17:59 | User Profile
*Originally posted by heritagelost@Jun 18 2003, 11:36 * ** The major media has not even mentioned this at all. **
An armed gang of Blacks could go on a rampage and murder a thousand Whites in this country, and the newsmedia would probably give more coverage to Finding Nemo's latest box office receipts. :hit:
2003-06-18 18:08 | User Profile
It's a hush-hush topic. They only mention blacks at the very top of the story and later on they blame the police for all their ills. Actually, I would really love to see more black riots all over Americkwa. Worse is better. When the riots are rampant the White weaklings will be forced to confront the ugly reality of their situation. The blinds will be raised up sharply, shining on a brand new day....so I say..... Burn this muhfukka down!!
2003-06-18 18:18 | User Profile
It's all part of the Juneteenth celebration, isn't it?
2003-06-18 23:25 | User Profile
Riot season got off to a late start this year...
2003-06-19 01:54 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]Michigan Troopers Sent to Riot-Hit City [/SIZE] 1 hour, 2 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
By JAMES PRICHARD, Associated Press Writer
BENTON HARBOR, Mich. - State police sent 150 troopers into the city Wednesday after two nights of rioting touched off by a deadly police chase in this community, plagued for years by poverty, high unemployment and racial tensions.
City officials also said they would aggressively enforce an overnight curfew already on the books for those 16 and younger, saying those are the ones causing the trouble.
Steven McCoy, a member of the City Commission, pleaded for calm, saying: "Let's don't destroy our city. This is our city. When it's all said and done, it's going to take us to put it all together again."
The rioting in the mostly black city began Monday after the death of Terrance Shurn, 28, of Benton Harbor, whose speeding motorcycle crashed into a building as he was being chased by Benton Township police. Shurn was black, and the officers who chased him into the city are white.
No serious injuries were reported in Monday's violence. But late Tuesday, bottle-throwing residents overpowered the small police force and hundreds spilled into the streets, burning at least five buildings and beating or stabbing about a dozen people.
Two firefighters trying to reach a burning building near the crash scene were attacked by a mob, even though about 130 state troopers and 100 other officers armed with tear gas were on patrol.
It was 4 a.m. Wednesday before the violence was quelled. Benton Harbor City Manager Joel Patterson said 10 to 12 people were arrested and charged with civil disobedience. One person was charged with assault with a deadly weapon.
"It is so unnecessary. It is unbelievable to see this in our community," said Police Chief Samuel Harris.
Residents complained that they have long been harassed by the 25-member police force.
However, Harris said Wednesday on ABC's "Good Morning America": "We're basically predominantly a black community. Many of our police officers are white, but I seldom have complaints of the racial nature."
Area ministers walked through the area Wednesday evening, talking to residents and discouraging them from violence. Shurn's brother, Raynard, 33, also called for peace at a community meeting Wednesday.
"I would say to the people of Benton Harbor that I feel your pain, your frustration and, yes, your anger," he said. "But I ask you and I beg you, please stop the violence."
Raynard Shurn, who spent 10 years as a city police officer, said several community leaders assured him there would be a "fair and just" investigation into his brother's death.
"I trust them completely and ask that you do the same," he said.
Benton Harbor, a city of 12,000 people situated on Lake Michigan about 100 miles east of Chicago, is 92 percent black, according to the 2000 census. Boarded-up buildings dot the community, and the average unemployment rate last year was 25 percent. Appliance maker Whirlpool is headquartered in Benton Harbor, but on the outskirts of town.
It is separated by a river bridge from St. Joseph, which offers a stark contrast: The city of 8,800 is 90 percent white, bustles with trendy restaurants, boutiques, offices and a picturesque waterfront, and had an average unemployment rate last year of 2 percent.
"There's no excuse for us not having the same opportunities for jobs" and a better way of life, said Ralph Crenshaw, a Benton Harbor city commissioner and an uncle of Shurn.
Alex Kotlowitz wrote about the two cities and their racial divisions in the 1998 book "The Other Side of the River," which chronicled an investigation into the 1991 death of a black teenager last seen in St. Joseph.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm said 150 state troopers would be on the streets overnight to keep the peace. Benton Harbor's own police force numbers just 26.
"You don't want to overreact and cause an unintended consequence, which is community backlash even greater than the one we've seen," she said. "We want to proceed with great caution."
Benton Township officials promised to examine their policy on high-speed police chases after about 70 residents and city officials questioned them at a public meeting Tuesday night.
Police said that they did not know why Shurn fled officers. But they said his license had been suspended and officers found a small amount of marijuana on him after the crash.
Shurn's aunt, Rosemary Shurn, said the several arrests on her nephew's record were for minor offenses. "He had turned his life around and changed," she said.
"There's got to be another solution. I can understand where these children are coming from. They've lost hope. They're in poverty but it's not the way to go about it. I don't think it's the way to go about it," she said.
2003-06-19 02:13 | User Profile
[SIZE=4][color=red]Bongo Party Time![/color][/SIZE]
**Bongo Party Time! [img]http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/6f1373e66d5aaf/www.msnbc.com/news/1934405.jpg[/img]
Michigan: Police Quell Second Night of Black Riots BENTON HARBOR, Mich. -- Police quelled a second night of disturbances after rioters protesting the death of a motorcyclist during a police chase set at least five buildings and five cars on fire. The rioters shot one person in the shoulder and beat and stabbed others, police said. In all, 10 to 15 people were hurt, none seriously. Benton Harbor was 92.4 percent black and Benton Township 51.9 percent black, according to the 2000 U.S. Census. The motorcyclist who died was black, and the officers who chased him were white.
[url=http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-crash-death-disturbance,0,1176589.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines]http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...ation-headlines[/url]
Restless natives in Michigan town prompts state of emergency Reporters and news crews arriving on the scene were also the targets of the attacks. [url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/18/michigan.unrest/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/18/m...rest/index.html[/url]
Police say the rioters were angry and specifically targeting them - (Tinsoldier) [url=http://www.wsbt.com/showStory.php?id=11955]http://www.wsbt.com/showStory.php?id=11955[/url]
"Benton Harbor Bongo Party" - Posted by Tyrone N. Butts, APE reporter on June 18, 2003 [url=http://www.senac.com/forums/14503/bin/8153.html]http://www.senac.com/forums/14503/bin/8153.html[/url]
"Two mo' Bongo Parties" - Posted by Tyrone N. Butts, APE reporter on June 18, 2003 [url=http://www.senac.com/forums/14503/bin/8155.html]http://www.senac.com/forums/14503/bin/8155.html[/url]
New Nation News [url=http://www.newnation.org/index2.html]http://www.newnation.org/index2.html[/url]**
2003-06-19 13:48 | User Profile
I'm frankly surprised. Usually it takes 2-3 years for people to realize they're in a Depression and unrest to begin flaring up. We're a good 9 months ahead of schedule.
The jobs are gone, the mestizos and Hindus and Yemenites are here doing the scutwork that might've kept body and soul together after the jobs left. Bush gives you back an extra $25 on your return while your local government gauges another $2500 out of you in fines and violatons and 'hidden' taxes. The surplus is gone, forever; pissed away at the most crucial moment to settle a Bush Family grudge, no matter that settling that grudge will require trillions of dollars we don't have over the next 20 years. We've got millions more mud-men on order to take the $10-an-hour jobs (that the previous mud-men took from you when they were paying $25 an hour plus medical) down to 40 bucks a day flat. Of course this'll be tough on you white folks who'll be kicking out 50, 60, 70 per cent of your earnings to keep the Ponzi pyramid standing a while longer. Oh by the way, apparently 50 million Negroes just realized they're not going to wake up tomorrow as Michael Jordan or Bill Cosby and they're on the warpath again. Bad business, that. If the rest of you could just - y'know - let them kill a few of you; not a big number, just enough to let them blow off a little steam - sort of taking one for the team, if you will - it would be a big help. Because we just noticed that, what with our troops everywhere but home, what we've got on hand is pretty much....black. Yeah, that's one Homeland Security wrinkle we hadn't ironed out just yet.
Look! Here's a Hulk movie! Go, go watch that, take your minds off it. Or see a ballgame. How about those Braves, huh? (Cue that Darryl Worley number, engineer.)
2003-06-19 15:22 | User Profile
"There's no excuse for us not having the same opportunities for jobs" and a better way of life, said Ralph Crenshaw, a Benton Harbor city commissioner and an uncle of Shurn.
This one stands on its own...
plagued for years by poverty, high unemployment and racial tensions.
Why is it that this sentence and a 90% Affikin 'Merikin population always seem to go hand in hand? I mean, are they telling us that the 10% of non-blacks in Benton Harbor are keeping all the brothers down? If so, they're not as tough as the propaganda makes out.
2003-06-19 15:36 | User Profile
90/10. That's the formula for blacks. 90% black/10%other = Death.
Benton Harbor Calms Down After Two Nights of Riots Thursday, June 19, 2003 [img]http://www.foxnews.com/images/93820/4_44_100_shurn_terrance.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.foxnews.com/images/93739/2_41_061803_michigan_riots.jpg[/img] BENTON HARBOR, Mich. ââ¬â Residents of this city, plagued for years by poverty, high unemployment and racial tensions, say frustration and fear fueled two days of street riots in response to the death a motorcyclist during a police chase.
Things calmed down Wednesday night, as police reported no incidents, in part because of rain, a heavy presence of police in riot gear and calls by the crash victim's family and city leaders to stop the violence.
"Well, God has blessed us," Police Chief Samuel Harris said at Benton Harbor (search) police headquarters. "It rained, and things are very quiet so far."
It was anything but quiet Monday and Tuesday nights, when hundreds of people roamed a six-to-eight-block area, setting fires and attacking passers-by, police officers and firefighters. Protesters burned at least six buildings and five cars and injured about a dozen people.
Terrance Shurn, 28, lost control of his speeding motorcycle and crashed into a building as he was being pursued by Benton Township (search) police. Shurn was black; the officers who chased him into the city are white.
Ministers walked through the area, talking to residents and discouraging them from violence. Shurn's brother, Raynard, 33, also called for peace at a community meeting Wednesday.
"I would say to the people of Benton Harbor that I feel your pain, your frustration and, yes, your anger," he said. "But I ask you and I beg you, please stop the violence."
Resident Tony Sims said he wants to see at least one Benton Township police officer fired over Shurn's death. He remembered Shurn as someone who took pride in the young son who shared his name, had a girlfriend and planned to start taking college courses.
"If I don't get no justice, there ain't gonna be no peace," said Sims, 26, who wanted to protest Wednesday night. "I'm going to be heard, one way or the other."
Nanette Partee said many black residents, especially young black men, are fed up with the Benton Township police.
"Some people say Terrance wouldn't stop because he feared for his life," she said.
Resident Latonya Doss says she's worried Benton Harbor's poor schools, deteriorating neighborhoods and dismal economy will keep her three young children from ever having a chance for a better life.
She said Shurn's death was just another sign that the deck seems stacked against the 12,000 residents of this community in Michigan's southwest corner.
"It seems like every time someone tries to turn their life around, something really bad happens," she said after attending a City Hall news conference Wednesday addressing Shurn's death. "I'm scared to death for my kids to grow up here."
Benton Harbor is 92 percent black and Benton Township is 52 percent black, according to the 2000 census. Boarded-up buildings and homes dot the community, and the average unemployment rate in the city last year was 25 percent. Appliance maker Whirlpool is headquartered in Benton Harbor, but sits on the outskirts of town.
The struggling city is separated by a river bridge from St. Joseph (search), which offers a stark contrast: The city of 8,800 is 90 percent white, bustles with trendy restaurants, boutiques, offices and a picturesque waterfront, and had an average unemployment rate last year of 2 percent.
Ralph Crenshaw, a Benton Harbor city commissioner and Shurn's uncle, said the difference between the poverty in Benton Harbor and the affluence in the surrounding county breeds frustration.
"Benton Harbor [is] one of the poorest communities in the state of Michigan," he said. "There's no excuse for us not having the same opportunities for jobs" and a better way of life.
The decay affects everything from the city's ability to attract new businesses to the neighborhoods surrounding schools.
The city has had some new businesses set up shop in its renaissance zone, which gives tax breaks to companies that bring jobs to areas desperate for economic growth.
But Harris said this week's rioting will discourage that kind of growth.
"We've been working to rebuild the city, to invite businesses to come in to our city. We've got all kinds of tax breaks and incentives," Harris said. "But no one will want to come if they think this is the way we act. If we have a repeat of this kind of lawlessness, we'll never attract anyone."
2003-06-19 16:09 | User Profile
What, it's time for a replay of Zulu and Triumf of the Will?
2003-06-19 17:16 | User Profile
Riot season got off to a late start this year...
Nice one. :D
2003-06-19 18:08 | User Profile
These stupid jazzbos need to take their patented act across the bridge to St. Joseph. They need to take the torches & the cheap .25s into the clean, safe, White neighborhoods and make all those wonderful "moderate", anti-racist soccermoms scream hysterically for their p-whipped hubbies to protect them with the guns they wouldn't let them have. If they slaughter a mess of these sheep, then maybe Whitey will be forced to reach down real low and rediscover his Fruit.
And then at last we can get on with the long put-off work of liquidating these bootlipped cannibals - and the filthy yews who unleashed them on us.
:gun: :hit: :gun:
2003-06-19 19:23 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Jun 19 2003, 05:48 * I'm frankly surprised. Usually it takes 2-3 years for people to realize they're in a Depression and unrest to begin flaring up. We're a good 9 months ahead of schedule.*
I thought the Juneteenth festivities/riots were behind schedule.
Don't ignore the threat of identical bongo parties being thrown by the mudmen from South of the Border. A real Ring of Fire in the good ol' USA these days. In the "LA Uprising" of '92, we had more bean dogs on the dance floor than boolies, even though the party was supposed to be a black thang, nome sane? The numbers of border brothers have increased dramatically since that fun-filled era.
Oh, it's going to get a lot worse before things get better. This little sideshow is just a preview of the carnival that will be coming to your town. You big city dwellers already know you're going to see this fun up close, fer sure, in the not too distant future. It's the rest of jew-box hypnotized, black sport enthusiast whites that are unaware of the forces swirling around them. NB sums up one harsh way that the situation could begin to be remedied. It's too bad that he's right.
2003-06-19 19:58 | User Profile
**These stupid jazzbos need to take their patented act across the bridge to St. Joseph. They need to take the torches & the cheap .25s into the clean, safe, White neighborhoods and make all those wonderful "moderate", anti-racist soccermoms scream hysterically for their p-whipped hubbies to protect them with the guns they wouldn't let them have. If they slaughter a mess of these sheep, then maybe Whitey will be forced to reach down real low and rediscover his Fruit.
And then at last we can get on with the long put-off work of liquidating these bootlipped cannibals - and the filthy yews who unleashed them on us.**
Tell us how you really feel, NB! :lol:
Once they're done with the soccermoms, I hope they try it in some Southern burgs, where the gunracks do more than hold umbrellas and fishing rods.