← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Valley Forge
Thread ID: 7446 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-06-17
2003-06-17 23:37 | User Profile
*In various discussions about America's future on this forum, I've seen some talk here and there about the possibility of race war or significant social upheaval. With that in mind, I'm wondering if anyone here takes the concept of "survivialism" seriously.
Personally, I think that race war and social breakdown are real possibilities within our lifetimes, but truth be told, if society ever did collapse, I don't think I could survive more than a few hours without air conditioning, restaurants, or the other conveniences of modern life.
What is Survivalism?
Survivalism is a philosophy - a way of life ââ¬â and it is as varied in its methodology as the worldsââ¬â¢ religious or political theories. The primary goal of survivalism, by any method chosen, is to increase the odds for the continued existence of its followers, when faced with a threatening situation. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not an "activist" tautology. Most survivalists are reserved and quiet individuals who have lost faith in societyââ¬â¢s ability to protect its own, and who have taken steps to lessen their dependence upon society for aid in an emergency situation.
Survivalists realize that modern society is a long and twisted chain of interdependency. Each link of this societal chain is dependent upon every other link to maintain its integrity. At various points within this chain are links that provide the rest of the chain with food, shelter, power, water, communications, transportation, and medical and physical protection. Should one or more links fail, those placed before and after the broken link(s) may find themselves without these necessary resources. Should enough of these links be suddenly broken, the entire chain may collapse.
Survivalists attempt to reinforce the chain of society by strengthening their own links. They do this by actively learning and practicing the necessary skills to provide or obtain the basic necessities of life for themselves, their families and their friends. They learn to build and maintain their own homes, provide their own clothes, find, store and purify their own water, establish and maintain their own communications and transportation. They learn to grow, hunt or gather their own food and how to process and store it. They learn to produce, maintain and distribute their own power. They learn to maintain their health through diet and exercise, and how to avoid or handle basic injuries and illnesses. And yes, they learn to defend themselves from aggressors when there is no one else there to protect them.
Survivalism does not necessarily concentrate on global catastrophe or the collapse of civilization. The profile of a "true" survivalist is someone who is concerned with planning for and avoiding the pitfalls and dangers of daily life and short-term emergencies and disasters of a local and temporary nature. In fact, since the frequency and likelihood of personal and local emergencies are more common, these situations are of primary concern.
Long term and widespread disasters are of concern to the survivalist, but they are extremely difficult to plan for. The individual (or single family) often does not possess the resources ââ¬â either financially, materially, or intellectually ââ¬â to efficiently plan for a long term, widespread disaster. This is where survival groups enter the picture.
Survival groups are formed to pool the resources of individual survivalists. They are generally formed of like minded individuals interested in a particular theory, or method, which they believe will be the most effective, in the event of an extended catastrophe. Survivalist theories can be broken down into several broad categories based upon a.) Primary survival techniques employed and, b.) Perceived threats. Each of these categories can be sub-classified by the membersââ¬â¢ political beliefs, religious beliefs, environmental concerns, and even racial biases.
Broad Based Categories:
Primary survival techniques:
Low Impact, Back-To-Nature Groups:
These groups believe that living in harmony with their natural surroundings is the best method for survival. About half of them are peaceful, extremely friendly and unobtrusive folks willing to share their knowledge of "one-ness with the planet" without seeming the least bit pushy. Most, but not all, are vegetarian types, with a great deal of insight on plant cultivation & usage, veterinary skills, foraging, and the geology of the planet. They often include a surprising number of individuals who are highly skilled in botany, geology, organic & inorganic chemistry, meteorology, natural, holistic and homeopathic medicine, and other scientific disciplines.
The other half, however, can include extremist groups of the pseudo-survivalist label. Pseudo-survivalists are generally the only types mentioned by the media. They are not actually survivalists at all, and are only valuable to the media for their entertainment and shock value. These groups are usually ill-prepared for operations outside of modern society. They include the 60-70ââ¬â¢s type "hippie communes," the polygamous partner (read: free sex) groups, the New Age religious retreats, and the more aggressive (and often militant) anti-technology "save the earth" groups. While they may be well organized as a group, the only thing they have in common with true survivalist groups is the label theyââ¬â¢ve been given by the media.
These groups operate under a separate set of philosophies that have little to do with survival or survivalism. They wish to live outside the laws of society and/or seek to create their own. They are often concerned with building membership solely for the purpose of withdrawing from society, draining their membersââ¬â¢ bank accounts, establishing new "profound" religions, or butting heads with the current political philosophies. They are usually anarchistic and nearly all have a flamboyant presentation. Most of them have established an "infallible" figurehead council or leader directing every aspect of their membershipââ¬â¢s lives. They make for interesting news, but they are not survivalists.
Primitive Skills Groups:
These groups believe that developing non-technological (though often quite technical) skills are the only way to ensure survival in a prolonged catastrophe. They are often "purists" and sometimes of a particular religious sect, such as the Quakers and the Amish. Normally, they do not claim that the Primitive Skills method is the best, the preferable, or the only method, but that it is the only reliable method for survival. They believe that technology will be difficult to maintain or re-establish in an extended survival scenario. The primitive skills of generations past ââ¬â using only their hands and what they can find or make for themselves from the surrounding countryside ââ¬â they believe, will always be available to anyone with the drive to learn the skills. These groups are similar to the "Back to Nature" groups in their avoidance of technology and technological materials in their methods. Many of these groups have amassed centuries of valuable information and techniques for survival in the absence of technology, including natural mechanics (hydro & wind power using simple energy transfer devices), herbal medicine, and basic primitive chemistries.
The drawbacks of this survival theory stem primarily from the purist point of view. Many of them have romanticized their method without immersion in its reality. They often fail to realize that, while this method is undoubtedly valid and of great value, the pre-technological era was a nightmare of disease, shortened life spans, and constant hardship for the common man. The primitive lifestyle cannot efficiently support a large group of people and often requires a nomadic existence. Careful cultivation of the local flora and fauna must also be exercised at all times, and while one group may indeed practice this technique, those survivors who do not follow their philosophy can easily denude their environment in a matter of days or weeks.
The Amish, Pennsylvania Dutch, and Quakers have created long-lasting and highly successful primitive technology communities. This is an excellent example of proper management of resources for primitive living. Unfortunately, most folks do not have the desire or ability to "go primitive" every hour of every day of their lives. Nor do they have the discipline it takes. These religious communities survive because they are founded in their religious beliefs, and because they do not, at this time, face any direct threats from aggressive opposition. Since they do not have an organized defensive capability, I do not expect these communities will last long, on their own, in the event of a catastrophe severe enough to force the breakdown of civilization.
The Primitive Skills group also has their fringe elements of anti-technology activists and eco-terrorists.
Hi-Tech Groups:
These groups rely on advanced technological systems to sustain them in the event of catastrophe. They use computers and various independent energy generating systems, short-wave communications, mini-labs and medical facilities, microwaves and freezers, alternative fuel vehicles and production plants, and heavily constructed shelters with air filters and elaborate locking mechanisms. They stand an excellent chance (better than most) of surviving the immediate effects of a major catastrophe in a superior & relatively comfortable lifestyle.
The drawbacks of this mindset are many, beginning with the cost factor. This type of survival approach is unattainable to the common man. It takes an enormous financial contribution to set up, stock, and maintain this system. To do it correctly, all components must be available initially and immediately ââ¬â for this system relies on the total integration of technological systems performing in harmony. Remove one or more system, and the entire system begins to self-destruct. This means you must begin with a basic, yet complete, system and continually upgrade as the project progresses.
Because of the initial financial requirements, this system is rarely used outside of governments, government officials, the military, the very wealthy - and large religious organizations. This system also requires either secrecy or a large security force/system capable of repelling all manner of aggressive and desperate opposition. Because of the integration of systems, this group must stockpile or have the capacity to manufacture every conceivable component of the systems they utilize. Unless civilization is restored in a fairly short period of time, this system is bound to eventually degrade until it is no longer a viable survival solution.
The weakest link in the system remains, however, the personnel involved. This technique is the most attractive to those least prepared to survive on their own. They are the technologically dependent. Whoever controls the technology will have the ability to control all others in the group. This is the perfect recipe for tyranny. You either perform exactly as demanded, or face certain death (by your lack of survival skills) upon banishment from the group. This is a pretty persuasive argument and could lead to some very unsavory situations.
These groups also contain the most arrogant, suspicious and paranoid members of any group save, perhaps, for the paramilitary groups. They also attract the laziest and least physically fit members who depend upon the technology to sustain them. Unfortunately, they have a great capacity to attract the most intelligent scientists and technologists, as well.
Lest anyone debase survivalism and survival groups automatically, they should know that this type of group is the very type your Senators, Congressmen, bureaucrats and officials belong to.
Paramilitary (Survive-By-Force) Groups:
These groups are not, in fact, survival groups at all. They are aggressive forces completely dependent upon each other - and on the ability of other survivors to sustain them. They are neither independent in thought nor in action, but rather a successive chain of "leaders" and "followers" who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions by the simple expedient of "following orders." Their leaders are completely dependent upon their followers commitment to carrying out their orders, and their followers are completely dependent on their leaders ability to track down and successfully implement a plan of attack against other, true, survivors.
Few of these groups have the ability or desire to survive on their own. They invest their efforts in little more than guns, bunkers, and military training. Oh, yes ââ¬â and uniforms. They are fraught with egotistical, paranoid, antisocial individuals from all walks of life and often display deep seated hatreds for certain races, religions, or political theories. The majority of members are ill-trained, ill-educated, underachievers who can be satisfied with a meal, a uniform, and some semblance of rank conferring power over others.
These groups will be the greatest threat to the post-catastrophe world. I suspect that 20-50% of their initial followers will desert the group in the months immediately following a major catastrophe. These "deserters" will be the semi-independent hopeful few who were mislead (by themselves, of course) into joining the group for reasons of security through superior firepower. The dregs that remain, however, will be the most brutal, aggressive, and desperate bunch to ever roam the countryside ââ¬â and they will be well armed. With powerful, persuasive and moderately intelligent leadership, this remaining group could wreak havoc among other survivors.
These groups are not survivalists, they are predators. Many of the groups actually hope for a catastrophe to take place ââ¬â and some may even be actively involved in creating their own catastrophes. They are borderline terrorists held in check only by the civilized majority and current military and police forces. Given the chance, they will run rampantly and violently to their own extinction ââ¬â taking anyone in their way with them. The are the absolute antithesis of survivalism and the survivalist theories.
Positive Action/Combined Skills Groups:
This type of group seeks to combine the best of all theories, and is the most difficult to form ââ¬â not because of financial concerns or individual skills, but because of the inability of the members to accept the basic philosophies of the others. This type of group, once formed, probably stands the best chance of extended survival, as it covers the broadest range of circumstances and the skills needed to overcome them.
This group integrates primitive skills and back-to-nature members with those who have the knowledge and ability to build and sustain a more technologically advanced existence. It combines the pacifist elements with a protective corps of defense specialists, and requires a great (and difficult) degree of logical acceptance, integration, specialization and commitment among all its members. It demands that each member recognizes the value of the others to the group, and that each performs to the best of their abilities (in their specialized skills) while accepting the contribution of others to the security of the group as a whole.
The "positive action" aspect of this type of group refers to the individual members commitment to help out in whatever manner needed ââ¬â regardless of their specialized skills. Survival is a labor-intensive endeavor, and each member must be willing to lend a hand - or a strong back and shoulder ââ¬â wherever & whenever needed. In this day and age, these types of individuals are not easy to find.
However, having formed such a group and successfully integrated its members, this group stands the very best chance of surviving and rebuilding some semblance of civilization. They combine all of the elements necessary to forge on without having to relearn the basics of modern life and suffer through a "Dark Ages" progression to technology. If large enough, intelligent enough, and sufficiently motivated, they could conceivably build (in time) a far better world than the one we live in now. They could integrate the best of modern technology and science with the best of "natural" living ââ¬â discarding the destructive and wasteful technologies & lifestyles for what they are.
Perceived Threats:
Daily threats: Power Outages, Medical emergencies, Lost individuals, Crashes & derailments, Mugging, robberies & car jacking, Gangs & drugs, Lost employment & disability recovery, etc.
The above list is not comprehensive or all-inclusive. These are simply the more visible threats and popular reasons for joining the survivalist movement. Granted, some of them are a bit far-fetched, but who are we to say what will or will not happen? Survivalists do not discount a threat simply because it is improbable, they access the level of probability and do what they can to plan accordingly.
Survivalists are a minority in a world that has accepted majority rule. That those who have a majority of dollars, pounds, rubles, francs, lire, shekels, etcetera, usually represent the "majority", is completely beside the point. Someone else controls the destiny of the world. We can only attempt to control our own destinies within our environment. Should civilization stumble and fall, the prepared survivalists will be the only ones capable of making Mankindââ¬â¢s last stand.
In my opinion, the amount of energy and vehement diatribe aimed at belittling and debasing survivalists and survivalism is directly proportionate to the need for survivalism to continue. Our current society appears to be in the throes of a delusional belief that, as long as we refuse to recognize a threat and act accordingly, the threat will refuse to impose itself upon us. Well I, for one, will not cross a street without looking both ways, and tend to dodge large falling objects. It seems pretty simple to meââ¬Â¦
Meg. 4 May 1998
[url=http://www.rmsg.us/megsed/6th.htm]The Original Article[/url]
2003-06-18 03:37 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Valley Forge@Jun 17 2003, 15:37 * **
In my opinion, the amount of energy and vehement diatribe aimed at belittling and debasing survivalists and survivalism is directly proportionate to the need for survivalism to continue. Our current society appears to be in the throes of a delusional belief that, as long as we refuse to recognize a threat and act accordingly, the threat will refuse to impose itself upon us. Well I, for one, will not cross a street without looking both ways, and tend to dodge large falling objects. It seems pretty simple to me?
**
That's exactly what I've been saying for quite awhile.
2003-06-21 18:11 | User Profile
I've spent quite a bit of time working out a system to produce 50-100 chickens per year, about 20 eggs per week, and large amounts of garden produce in a 28' x 32' area. It is designed for suburban types who don't much like gardening or animal husbandry. They would have to slaughter and butcher the chickens.
It seems to me that something like this, along with a composting toilet and a few other property modifications, is cheap insurance.
2003-06-21 19:11 | User Profile
I take the issue quasi-seriously, but not as seriously as I should. I own a nice "recreational" property. It's moderately sized - over 150 acres - and it has running through the centre of it a small (but important) local river. The land is flat for the most part, and its boundaries are hilly. The property is not easily accessible by road (there isn't a road there in fact) and is by anyone's standards remote. I chose this property for several reasons:
I think, after reading the article above, that one should be a Positive Action/Combined Skills survivalist if anything. I need to upgrade my weapons and related skills.
2003-06-21 20:34 | User Profile
If I were going to set up a rural survival retreat East of the Rocky Mountains, my choice of location would be Southern Illinois, below a line extending from St. Clair County (county seat: Belleville, SE of St. Louis) to Wabash County (confluence of the Wabash and White Rivers), on the Indiana border. This area is far enough South to have a good growing season. Additionally, it is isolated, the population consists overwhelmingly of well-armed rural whites, and land (high quality mixed woodland and farmland) prices are reasonable.
Another option would be a houseboat on the Ohio River moored between, say, Uniontown, Kentucky and Cairo, Illinois, or on the Mississippi River between Cairo and the Tennessee state line. In the pioneer days, that area was known for river piracy, and it has reverted to the unpatrolled condition. The police are hesitant and even fearful to intrude into the area. It has a large floating (no pun intended!) white population, living on houseboats and moving among the various river systems. It is impossible for the authorities to keep track of folks as they move up and down the rivers. Quite a few grow dope for a living in hidden gardens along the river, but, nonetheless, they are mainly decent people who mind their own business. There is excellent fishing and hunting all through the area. Much of the farmland on the Kentucky side of the river has reverted to forest and pasture.
2003-06-23 05:54 | User Profile
Valley Forge said: > [color=red]"I've seen some talk here and there about the possibility of race war..."[/color]
I'm of the opinion that an all-out race war is not likely, but rather a series of mini-race wars spanning a period of decades, as America spirals ever downward into Third World hell. Such mini-race wars would be like the Watts Riot of 1965, but magnified a 100 fold. They would not be so large as to engulf the entire nation at one time, but would instead be regional outbreaks of mass violence. Hot spots will be Los Angeles, of course, along with Miami, Houston, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta, to name a few.
Each of these population centers are now racially-charged, urban time bombs just waiting for a lit match to set them off. When it happens, any white stupid enough to still be living in these areas will probably die. But those that live 30 to 40 miles away from these urban centers will initially survive, so they will need to be well-armed and well-provisioned for such a conflict, as neither the police or the US military will be very effective in protecting them from maurauding blacks and mestizos.
Tom
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2003-06-27 16:13 | User Profile
Well, I heat almost exclusively with [url=http://www.stovesdirect.com/stoves/napoleonstoves/wood_stoves/1900.html]wood,[/url] and I store quantities of food in the wintertime, so we could survive temporary chaos, though having no electricity for the well pump would be a nuisance. I don't own any guns except for a pellet gun that I use to harrass the crows that come to feed on the corn that I set out for the wild turkeys, but in an emergency all the wild game would disappear quickly, so hunting's not really an option anyway. In short, any lengthy societal collapse and we're pretty much screwed. But...even here in the rocky Ozarks where it's hard to grow much of anything except hay, food is being produced everywhere. Cattle, sheep, emus, chickens, everywhere there's a clearing on occupied land somebody's got food growing in the sun, so I don't see any problems with surviving in the near future. Talk radio in this part of the country is boring as hell because all Whitey talks about are infrastructure and agribusiness issues, and while that's shortsighted, it does mean that he'll be able to continue to ship food out to the the food stamp users for a while yet, until ZOG forces them to divert their attention to more important issues like spending that infrastructure money on the endless dysfunctions of the newly-arrived muds. So I think we have some time left, and I think that a survivalist network will grow as the decline becomes harder to ignore. Or it could all go to hell overnight.
2003-06-27 18:32 | User Profile
The best way to forestall a race war is for white to remain well-armed and organized into militias. This will also put a check on government intrusion into the white nation.
2003-06-28 12:36 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Uncle John@Jun 21 2003, 20:34 * ** If I were going to set up a rural survival retreat East of the Rocky Mountains, my choice of location would be Southern Illinois, below a line extending from St. Clair County (county seat: Belleville, SE of St. Louis) to Wabash County (confluence of the Wabash and White Rivers), on the Indiana border. This area is far enough South to have a good growing season. Additionally, it is isolated, the population consists overwhelmingly of well-armed rural whites, and land (high quality mixed woodland and farmland) prices are reasonable. **
I've set my sights on Northern Wisconsin, say on the Lake Superior shoreline around Ashland.
The area is very white, along with a good number of Chippwa and other assorted Indians who tend to be good eggs. Everybody gets along just fine. The ghastly cold winters keep out the riff-raff.
It's sparsely populated enough that land prices are low, and although the growing season is short (about 3.5 months) you can get off a crop of winter oats, alfalfa, and spuds. Keep a few cattle and pigs for meat, and you're in business. Some folks up there keep bees, which couldn't be too difficult to learn. Berries of all sorts are plentiful. The land is good and fertile, and a greenhouse would keep you in winter vegetables. The woods would keep you in fuel.
And perhaps most importantly, it is in my opinion one of the most spactacularly beautiful places on Earth. Due to the St. Lawrence Seaway, Ashland is also an ocean port, as is Duluth which is several hours by car to the west. And the area has a water border with Canada, so politically its an interesting candidate for future developments.
There is some very hilly country around there - good defensive terraiin, although I'm no expert.
I need to improve my technical skills - learn about living off-grid. I have a good friend who's into that - trying to make the move from his spirit-killing job as a financial analyst to a homestead, although he's a couple hundred miles south of there.
As for me, I fear that anything near large populations of blacks is probably in the cross-hairs of history. That means big cities and the old Confederacy in particular.
Go north, young man!
Walter
2003-06-28 12:40 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Recluse@Jun 27 2003, 16:13 * ** Cattle, sheep, emus, chickens **
Emus???
You have emus? I don't think I've ever even seen one.
Where did the come from? Are they good eating? How big are they? Are their eggs large? Can they stand the cold?
Walter
2003-06-28 13:32 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter Yannis+Jun 28 2003, 06:40 -->
QUOTE* (Walter Yannis @ Jun 28 2003, 06:40 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Recluse@Jun 27 2003, 16:13 * ** Cattle, sheep, emus, chickens ** Emus???
You have emus? I don't think I've ever even seen one.
Where did the come from? Are they good eating? How big are they? Are their eggs large? Can they stand the cold?
Walter**
I don't have any, but they're pretty common around here. Here's more info: [url=http://www.emutoday.com/emufarming.html]http://www.emutoday.com/emufarming.html[/url]
Walter Yannis
2003-06-28 17:01 | User Profile
Originally posted by Recluse+Jun 28 2003, 13:32 -->
QUOTE (Recluse @ Jun 28 2003, 13:32 )
QUOTE* (Walter Yannis @ Jun 28 2003, 06:40 ) <!--QuoteBegin-Recluse@Jun 27 2003, 16:13 * ** Cattle, sheep, emus, chickens ** Emus???
You have emus? I don't think I've ever even seen one.
Where did the come from? Are they good eating? How big are they? Are their eggs large? Can they stand the cold?
Walter**
I don't have any, but they're pretty common around here. Here's more info: [url=http://www.emutoday.com/emufarming.html]http://www.emutoday.com/emufarming.html[/url] **
Thanks for that link, very instructive.
I never even saw one in Wisconsin. They're Australian and noted for being able to take the heat, so I doubt that they're suited for the frozen wastelands of my home state.
One of my neighbors raises elk - they get really, really big on a steady diet of hay. The meat's good, too.
Walter
Walter Yannis
2003-06-28 17:16 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 23 2003, 05:54 * ** I'm of the opinion that an all-out race war is not likely, but rather a series of mini-race wars spanning a period of decades, as America spirals ever downward into Third World hell. Such mini-race wars would be like the Watts Riot of 1965, but magnified a 100 fold. They would not be so large as to engulf the entire nation at one time, but would instead be regional outbreaks of mass violence. Hot spots will be Los Angeles, of course, along with Miami, Houston, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta, to name a few.
Each of these population centers are now racially-charged, urban time bombs just waiting for a lit match to set them off. When it happens, any white stupid enough to still be living in these areas will probably die. But those that live 30 to 40 miles away from these urban centers will initially survive, so they will need to be well-armed and well-provisioned for such a conflict, as neither the police or the US military will be very effective in protecting them from maurauding blacks and mestizos. **
Have you read Tom Chittum's book "Civil War II?" He lays out a plausible scenario and backs it up with good arguments. He manfully sticks his neck out and even names a date for the start - 2018 if memory serves. He sees a big conflagration.
Of course I left my crystall ball at the office, but here's my wild guess. I don't think we're looking at Armageddon. I think that the most likely scenario is that the monetary system will collapse, including the US Government's default on its bonds. The Feds will of course have moved to reduce the white population to full-fledged tax serfs by this time, and the public mood will be ugly. Whites will move to white areas to escape the ever-increasing demands of coloureds, and ethnic cleansing will largely be a fait accompli. When the default day comes, we'll have a payment crisis that will shut down basic services. There will be some confused fighting, but the decision will be made to let the Union dissolve along the racial/ethnic faultlines now forming. My date: November 15, 2016, which is when the Boomers will be retired en masse and will have to draw down from the general budget, and is shortly after a presidential election where tens of millions of Hispanics will be voting.
I say this also because I suspect that History and History's God has the thing modeled on the breakup of our erstwhile archrival, the USSR, which thankfully ended more with a whimper than a bang. It's like a Tolstoy novel - the protaganist always becomes the thing he hates. We drove the USSR down with an arms race and later imperial wars that will kill us, too. A break-up caused by an economic collapse would be poetic. Maybe not poetic justice, but certainly possessing a certain aesthetic symmetry.
Regards,
Walter
Valley Forge
2003-06-30 21:43 | User Profile
A massive list survival-related texts.
[url=http://www.survivalplans.com/reading.html]Survival Plans: Recommended Readings[/url]