← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · triskelion
Thread ID: 7362 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-06-15
2003-06-15 05:24 | User Profile
I have been witnessing the abusive, dishonest and redundant posts of Tom Rennick grossly misrepresent the views of several long time friends and comrades here and at www.polinco.com for the past couple of weeks with increasing anger. The need exists to respond forcefully and refute his disingenuous attacks upon genuine Eurocentrics and the fifth column he represents. While I understand that my compatriots here and at polinco are primarily temperate, civil Occidentals that abhor the discord and rancor that accompany truculent exchanges we must not shirk our duty to refute abusive representatives of false fronts like the noxious TR.
To begin, some brief attention will be given to the matter of the NA. As I have spend a great deal of time respectfully detailing my concerns/disagreements with that organization on SFOL, www.polinco.com , www.occidentalorigin.com , EK and various non English, defunct and closed lists over the years I will not restate those points here unless ask to do so as most members know what I think on the topic. I do maintain that when dealing with anyone that seems honourable and at least someone what supportive of Eurocentrism that criticism be polite and constructive. In the past, I have refuted those that unfairly attack the NA or it's leaders and I have no interest in unsubstantiated rumours about it or any other organization.
With respect to TR's comments about the NA, Mr. Strom and his family I will start by saying that the websites maintained by Mr. Strom and his wife are first rate in providing a positive and literate face to the noble cause of racialism. Unlike TR, Mr. Strom conducts himself with dignity and forwards ideas himself rather then simply trashing those he does not agree with. The opinions of Mr. Strom's ex-wife (whose openly anti Occidental with a personal axe to grind) is simply not a credible source on anything pertaining to racialism.
As to the NA it should be said that regardless of it's flaws the reality is that the vast majority of it's membership are not skins and none of the organization's leadership can be described as such. In point of fact, numerous spats between various skinhead groups and the NA have appeared lately in part because of the NA's inattention/insensitivity to that counter culture. It's obvious that some grossly defective people support or possibly belong to the NA as a survey of some pro-NA sites will reveal. However, I can personally attest to that a great many members of the NA are middle class professionals that are intelligent activists whom I am privileged to know inspite of our disagreements.
Although I often found myself unhappy with NA broadcasts in the past for various reasons I have yet to see anything objectionable with Mr. Strom's efforts in this area and think that some of his shows are excellent. I should also point out that National Vanguard Books is an excellent source of literature for Americans (Noontide Press is also wonderful) which I endorse fully. The official NA sites (save Resistance) are well done and sometimes thought provoking. I am also very supportive of the charity drive they have provided for Occidentals suffering in South Africa.
In substantive terms I do like the fact that the NA deals honestly with race and does correctly address the matter of Jewry in a forth right manner as doing so is vital and few other groups in the states do so without recourse to the inanities of propasphere molded pseudo nazis. Most importantly, the NA has under taken some positive, if sporadic, public and productive activism in Maine within recent times which reflects very well upon a segment of the membership. What is needed in such areas is a persistent and long term effort along those lines in numerous areas which means that the NA has to find/create another 100 Mr. Kevsky's.
Getting down to the matter of matter of Skinheads and racial music I certainly expect that nothing I can say will make even the slightest impact upon a faux racialist like TR. He has proven himself dishonest and will simply repost the same photos and blanket condemnations of something he is wholly ignorant of while grossly lying about the views of those that object to him. I offer for consideration to the reader the article below that I wrote originally for EK on the topic with a few more recent reflections inserted.
Skinheads and White Power Music by Vibeke ÃËstergaard
I noticed that in the past some stridently anti skinhead/WP music posts were made in this forum which I wanted to respond to but lacked the time in the past. Having grown up with racial nationalist music, having been a bovver boy in my youth and having been deeply involved with the scene from ââ¬Ë81 till ââ¬Ë88 and keen observer since I feel compelled to address the issue. The best single article I have read on the subject is the article below (Adobe reader is required for this pdf) which I fully agree with: www.//heritagelost.org/frame/main/nationalist.pdf
First I should state that some WP music is completely without merit and that some youth attracted to it are thugish degenerates with whom I want noting to do with. I have zero interest in NSBM/hatecore which I find squalid and utterly without merit. Those attracted to that aspect racial music of are often the dysfunctional misfits that TR characterizes all skins as being. I will of course admit without hesitation that plenty of people that call themselves skins are in fact vile scum. Obviously, the NA should stop carrying/producing the mindless hatecore which attracts the worst elements of the skin scene, gives it's opponents plenty of grist for their mills and carries all kinds of potential legal liabilities. However, by enlarge, the freaks shown in TR's four photos he endlessly re-posts are not the norm within racial skin circles in terms of appearance in that most racial skins have less prominent/outrageous tattoos and less outrageous dress. I personally hate tattoos and I much prefer the traditional skinhead look which was very clean cut and neat.
It should be mentioned that anyone can choose to label themselves a skin and often do so falsely. We must also remember that a great many self declared skins are radical leftists, non political or "non racist, traditional skins" (i.e. neocons) and that more often then not they appear very similar to racial skins in terms of fashion. Also note that some racial skins are in fact sociopaths that simply latch on to Hitler a-la Hollywood to give meaning to personal failings and nillism and such misfits are particularly numerous in the states as bands such as Brutal Attack and others have freely pointed out from time to time.
Conversely, racially aware skins over the age of 18 that have been in "the scene" for at least two years tend to be serious, working class types fully open to genuine activism if given proper guidance. Certainly, skins will always be met with hatred by the jews that are so prominent in faux racial groups like AmRen, ADL trained police forces (that TR quotes as authoritative) and the third world scum that have taken over American cities. A great deal of middle class people will look down upon the blatantly proletarian skinhead counter culture just as they do on working class people in general and proletarian Southerners particular knowing nothing about those matters other then what they have been told by the propasphere. As a result, one should be vary careful and selective when seeking out skins for help with activist projects and try to direct them towards projects targeted towards working class segments of society when they are used.
However, nationalist music has evolved quite a bit over the last 20 odd years and presently consists of a great many genres of music and simply can't be viewed solely in terms of skinheads as was the case in the 80's. While the original Rock Against Communism (RAC) scene of the early 80's is often seen as the start of Eurocentric counter culture music the reality is that it started in 60's with crass, racist, and occasionally humourous, country songs of Johnny Reb and similar acts. A much more positive, ideologically mature and musically more interesting turn occurred during the 70's when the Italian MUSICA ALTERNATIVA scene began with folk and rock acts serving as a rallying point for serious, real world nationalist revolutionary action. The best source of information on this matter is provided by the NR media cooperative Perimento: www.perimetro.com The MUSICA ALTERNATIVA of the 70's gave rise to today's "Rock Indentitaire Français" (France's Identary Rock) and like minded bands all over Europa which has created a vibrant and thoughtful alternative to the anti human impulses so much a part of modern corporate music. I suggest that readers take out a moment to review some recent recordings by the like of Massimo Morsello, Vae Victis, Zero Zeta Alpha, Kaiser Bund, Carpe-Diem, Basic Celtos and Endovelico. All of which can be heard on the National Revolutionary radio www.nationalrevolt.com/mc/ and [url=http://geocities.com/letterstoagermanfriend]http://geocities.com/letterstoagermanfriend[/url] which also has some first rate philosophical articles and some very exotic music.
Presently, a good deal of racial and Eurocentric music is folkish and ultra traditional as seen by the music of Kirby Wise, Eric Owens, Tor Lundvall, Ian Reed, Fire/Ice and others. One can also enjoy the fantastic Eurocentric and often acoustic compositions of L Orchesetre Noir whose double album 11" has a very fine essay on Eurocentric music by R. Larcade and quite possibly the most evocative recordings of O Virgo Splendors and La Chanson Du Roi Renaud ever recorded and some very nice Cello and Harp accompaniment by Aurore Pingard, Stephane Collange and Jaufr e Darroux . Best of all, the recordings are graced by the angelic voice of Sowila. I also can fully endorse the acoustic Sol Invictus album Trieste which was recorded live at the Teatro Miela in Trieste featuring the starkly beautiful voice of Sally Doherty along side the more famous Tony Wakeford.
I personally enjoy the highly eclectic variety of Gothic/folk music produced by the likes of Andrea Haughan and the haunting works of Freya Aswynn which combine lyrical inspiration from the Havamal and the Voluspa with a wide range of traditional and electric instruments and atmospheric feminine vocals. I also strongly recommend the Swedish band Symphony of Sorrow for their songs Blood Destiny, The Final Outpost and The Camp of Saints. The last of which expresses the same thoughts as Raspail's novel of roughly 200 pages in about four minutes in an effective manner. If you happen to be interested in traditional ballads I would suggest the National Socialist songs of Annett, Frank RennÃÂcke and Jörg Hähnel.
As to the more aggressive styles of music that one commonly associates with racialism has both positive and negative attributes. As a young lad I fondly recall listening to RAC and Oi! music and found shows a great way to meet like minded souls, pick up literature and enjoy comradeship of National Revolutionaries. Racial music gives me encouragement to face the problems of daily activism and clarify why all the hassle and hardship of our cause is worth the effort. I for one was introduced to the works LeBonn, DeMan and Pendell by skins I used to know so I certainly can't tar all skins with the same brush used by the Zionist press as TR has done.
While it is true that most skins are completely uninterested in serious ideological matters the same can be said about members of society in general from any political disposition. That many are inarticulate and reflective and even visceral in their political expression matters not. In an idea world, reason and careful reflection upon weighty texts by DeMastre, Sotello, Faye, DeBenoist, Yockney and countless other Eurocentric theorists would sway serious thinkers to our side and the impulsive alone would adhere to multi-racialism. Such a hope is divorced from reality and perhaps this is a good thing as erudition and ideological maturity does far worse stopping a rampaging gang of Congoids/Antifa/ARA/ANAL thugs armed with petrol bombs and knives then a few bovver boys. We would do well to remember that a great many skins are serious activists who put their money, time and safety where their mouths are which I simply can't say for a great many ivory tower bound keyboard warriors or fifth columnists like TR. While I prefer that my compatriots hold the same temperament and sense of decorum that I have most do not and will not. Instead, I accept any honorable, serious advocates of the 14 words regardless of appearance or motivation be it from music, books or simply being forced to live in a multiracial hell.
As a personal note, I should add that during my recent brush with death it was Italian skins that kept my family safe from serious threats of rape and murder as well as provided housing for them while I languished in various Italian hospitals. It is also skins that have volunteered to see to my safety as I and my family travel abroad. Like wise, it was not posh academics well schooled in Sorelian metaphysics and the finer points of Maurassian thought that battled with third world drug dealers and gangs to defend English white neighborhoods when I was a youth in London or raised money to help support the family of murdered NF pensioner Albert Mariner but the working class skins that TR deems subhuman.
As to the issue of making money from racialist music there is cause for concern. As someone pointed out, frauds do exist. Certainly, Resistance Records under the direction of George Burdi fell into this category as does the defunct Skull Records, the very distasteful Micetrap Distribution and ISD/NS records run by the MI5 front group C18/NSA. However, once you look past the frauds you will see plenty of labels and distributors run by genuine racial activists.
Someone mentioned that it costs about a dollar to make a CD and that rest of the 12 - 16 dollar price simply disappears into someone bank book rather then help the cause. This thinking is basically nonsense as I have at various times in the past both produced and distributed music and know better. While it is true that the cost of pressing a CD is minimal the cost of the final product is not. One must consider that booking a decent if unexceptional recording studio costs no less then a hundred dollars an hour and that to record a full length album worth of material and have it mixed and edited properly can readily take up to 60 hours. Some of the additional costs include: mastering lab fees, type setting, colour separation and various graphic design costs, booklet printing and assembly, jewel trays, shrink wrap and freight for having a few thousand CDs delivered to the label owner. In a great many cases, one also has to consider the legal costs associated with having a lawyer review the lyrics and packaging so as not to run afoul of race relations laws.
All of these costs must be payed up front by the label producing the CDs and these bills can easily reach into the 10-15 thousand dollar range. Also, the label owner should provide a small royalty to the band. Typically, this runs about a dollar or two per CD sold and often times the label kicks in money to help defray the cost of the band's travel expenses and renting a venue, insurance and equipment for shows. All of these expenses are in addition to the 10+ thousand dollars I mentioned earlier.
The bad news for potential racial record moguls is that no major independent distributor will even consider carrying a mildly racialist production so you best forget having your album in any retail outlets. Worse, you can expect that any publication that does not actively target racialists will not accept advertisements for your product so right away large scale mail order sales are out. Another marketing problem is that live shows are far to rare and far too likely to be stopped by police or leftist militants to hold out much promise for sales. When shows do occur they often have little promotion and occur in remote locations which means that potential customers will be dedicated fans that likely have any CDs that have been released or a bootleg copy if they are lowlife leaches or poor. When these problems are considered along with the possibility that the label owner home may be raided and the entire pressing confiscated and destroyed one has to consider the very real possibility that you will never recoup your 10 grand plus investment.
As to what happens to the money that is actually made from music sales the reality is a bit different then the lucrative picture portrayed by TR. Most labels reinvest sales income into putting out more releases and purchasing titles from other labels. Several labels and distributors also purchase books and zines which they carry and pay for web hosting, site design and merchant credit card accounts all which can also be noticeably expensive. In several cases, proceeds go to legal defense funds or to support various political causes. Two such examples include the National Alliance and Thule being supported by their respective record labels. Organizations like Perimento receive their support from CD sales as do many B & H chapters. Several election campaigns have been funded by CD sales with one such an example being the "Our Europe Not Theirs" compilation assisting the BNP or the countless offering put forward by Identitarian bands to support various election efforts across Europe. Compilations like the Joe Rowan memorial and the Nordic Thunder CDs helped to pay for funeral costs facing his surviving family members. The "No Justice" compilation raised funds for victims of Pedophiles, while the "No More Brothers Wars"series helped under write anti EU campaigns. "Soutien des Prisonniers: Support Comp" raised thousands of dollars for genuine political prisoners just as the up coming Landser tribute will help pay the legal bills associated with freeing members of that band from prison. Like wise, various Spanish RAC bands have helped to defray the cost of Valera's endless court battle to regain the right to sell rightist books and challenge the left. In all of these cases, skinhead bands made up of real world activists have put their time, money, freedom and safety on the line to support a wide range of Eurocentric causes which even some one like TR may find worthwhile on some level.
While it is true that parasites exist within the music scene and they should be condemned most of the bands and labels do far more for the cause then most of their critics. No one is getting rich from racial music and our organizations need every source of revenue they can get. If the whining voices of dissension and division did half as a much for the cause of the 14 words as the leading activists in the music scene did our threat to the establishment would be far greater then it is.
Moving on to TR's notion that jews are racially Occidental (as does his organization of choice, AmRen) I present the following:
[url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10801975&dopt=Abstract]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...5&dopt=Abstract[/url]
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.
Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B.
Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA. mhammer@u.arizona.edu
Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.
Jews have unique genetic ailments that racial whites do not as I am sure any one with even a passing familiarity with the subject knows. Less well known but discovered with minium effort are the following studies: [url=http://www.genetichealth.com/BROV_Gen_Dis_in_Ashk_Jews.shtml]http://www.genetichealth.com/BROV_Gen_Dis_...Ashk_Jews.shtml[/url] [url=http://www.hfnj.org/genetics.htm]http://www.hfnj.org/genetics.htm[/url] [url=http://www.juf.org/news_public_affairs/article.asp?key=2225]http://www.juf.org/news_public_affairs/art...le.asp?key=2225[/url] [url=http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.08.17/genetic3.html]http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.08.1...7/genetic3.html[/url]
I suggest that TR briefly scan the genetic research prior to making such absurd claims as jews are whites. A decent start would be - www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstract.html And [url=http://www.jeffsarchive.com/index2.htm]http://www.jeffsarchive.com/index2.htm[/url], [url=http://www.thalidomide.ca/gwolbring/eugenics.htm]http://www.thalidomide.ca/gwolbring/eugenics.htm[/url], [url=http://www.yucommentator.com/archives/v62i6/news/cohengene.html]http://www.yucommentator.com/archives/v62i.../cohengene.html[/url], [url=http://www.judea.ru/show_topic.php3?topic_id=93]http://www.judea.ru/show_topic.php3?topic_id=93[/url] [url=http://eserver.org/bs/33/newitz.html]http://eserver.org/bs/33/newitz.html[/url]
Another good source of information on the topic is THE SACRED CHAIN: The History of the Jews By Norman F. Cantor. Harper Collins Publishers (New York, 1994). A decent article on the matter is here: [url=http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html]http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html[/url] [url=http://www.xenith.com/articles/jewish.html]http://www.xenith.com/articles/jewish.html[/url] and some more here: [url=http://www.jewishgen.org/Rabbinic/links/gen.htm]http://www.jewishgen.org/Rabbinic/links/gen.htm[/url] , [url=http://www.assyrianfoundation.org/genetics.htm]http://www.assyrianfoundation.org/genetics.htm[/url] .
Israel knows that TR is wrong (as shown by the Zionist state's immigration policy) and that should TR bother to look into the matter of genetic warfare and Israeli efforts to develop pathogens that kill only Arabs (rather then their own branch of the Semitic race) TR can save him self further embarrassment. A decent start is a story carried by London Times in November 1998 although another good source is- [url=http://www.ddh.nl/pipermail/vredeslijst/2001/000195.html]http://www.ddh.nl/pipermail/vredeslijst/20...001/000195.html[/url] [url=http://www.isnet.org/archive-milis/archive98/nov98/0647.html]http://www.isnet.org/archive-milis/archive...nov98/0647.html[/url] as is [url=http://www.faem.com/letters/h1104a.htm]http://www.faem.com/letters/h1104a.htm[/url] and [url=http://www.panmacmillan.com/PlagueWars/PDFs/PW_C34pp372_376.pdf]http://www.panmacmillan.com/PlagueWars/PDF...34pp372_376.pdf[/url]
As to the matter of what impact Jewry has had on the Occident I would instruct everyone to read the McDonald trilogy . For those with little time to read about this most vital of issues see: [url=http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=1010]http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=1010[/url]
Some brief attention should be given to TR's repeated, favourable references to the Randian cult. Whose founder was a jew and whose theoretical organs/foundations (ex. Reason Magazine, the Cato Foundations, FEE and CLS and others I can't think of off hand) are very pro racial nationalism when it comes to Israel, as was Rand, but simultaneously promotes open boarders and the notion race doesn't exist/matter. The Randians, like almost all Libertarians, are fully in support of erasing national boarders and has nothing but contempt for any form of racialism including the neutered quasi racialism pushed by AmRen.
As I have made my rejection of the mystical psychobabble presented as irrefutable natural law known as" free market economics" clear often in the past I will deal with the matter only in passing now so as to save time. Libertarianism has not been compatible with Eurocentrism within living memory nor can it be in a multi-generational sense ever since the advent of industrialization. This should come as no surprise as libertarianism holds humans as mere "rational maximizers of utility" and as such it is fully logical that such an outlook objects to nation, race and tradition as irrational and contrary to a Rational Objectionist notion of liberty and morality.
In part this is because the unrestrained flow of capital and labor has globalism as a natural consequence which is in turn is fully incompatible with the small town nostalgia and sense of community so dear to racialists. Another consequence of transnational capitalism is the domination of multi-national enterprises over alien cultures and states which destroy the true racial diversity dear to genuine racialists while encouraging imperialist wars of aggression which in turn force Occidental states to become larger, more repressive and globalist in outlook.
Long before so called "negative externalities" of capitalism brought about the current levels of globalism the libertarian impulse was wreaking havoc upon Occidental traditionalism. The ascendancy of capital over traditional societal arrangements helped to foster class conflict and the gradual destruction of a sense of national identity allowing the rise of racial aliens and class warfare in our nations. Without this societal chaos the "long march through the institutions" which produced cultural bolshevism could never have happened. As the forces of capital became consolidated within an ever shrinking collection of oligopolies the motive force of culture went from primarily an organic basis to mere fadism/universalism manufactured by often alien plutocrats which in turn provided a means for those that control transnational capital to determine the perceptions of the electorate. Thereby allowing the absolute dominance of anti Occidental forces over our societies. In short, a philosophy which is centered upon atomistic individualism and crass materialism is one that is wholly at odds with racial solidarity and identification once Occidental man's natural capacity for invention makes long distance travel and communication widely available.
Given TR's support for AmRen his abuse and gross mischaracterizations of real Eurocentrics is fully predictable. The hypocrisy of condemning the NA for failure to support Mr. Doles is shocking given that TR views working class "extremists" with tattoos, like Mr. Doles himself, as subhuman. Outrageous beyond belief is that TR views an obscenity spewing promoter of guttural racism and genocide like Von Bluvins as credible simply shows that for TR anyone that any condemnation of the NA is reasonable and such critics are, in that capacity if no others, reliable.
My first concerns about AmRen arose when an earlier e-list run by AmRen that saw Taylor's occasional presence featured well received, by the list management, posts extolling the virtues of Asian/Occidental miscegenation and plenty of blather about how jews have done so much for America. For a while, opposing positions where condemned in a manner similar to the way TR treats his opposition but this soon changed to simple banishment. Eventually, Taylor himself shutdown the list because he was annoyed that large numbers of the posters favouring real separatism and criticism of Jewry making the list hard to control.
The current e-lists run by AmRen are openly pro-Jewish, pro- miscegenation and likely to censor country views no matter how well supported or civil. Here at O.D. we have seen very well crafted articles by Mr. Renzi and others point out that AmRen does not support racial separatism but merely a slower route to our biologic destruction via pro jew pseudo racialism as stated clearly in the magazine articles they put out. In the end, TR is simply the latest indication of AmRen being no supporter of genuine Eurocentrism in the states.
2003-06-15 05:43 | User Profile
Thanks for the near-exhaustive treatment of an unpleasant subject.
For further information, if you can stand it, on the man whose current name is Rennick, you might want to see my reply in the "Four grand is pathetic" thread --
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=8458&st=0&#entry44900]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=0&#entry44900[/url]
By the way, for the record, I have no objection to the discussion of the person's pet peeves at all. My objection is the mission of destruction -- destruction of good people's life's work -- which he has chosen for himself, and his use of blatant lies to further that mission.
With all good wishes,
Kevin. [url=http://www.kevin-strom.com/]http://www.kevin-strom.com/[/url]
2003-06-15 07:06 | User Profile
Thank you for your reply Mr. Strom. Your point is very well taken and it raises my opinion of you. I will take a look at the thread you mention shortly.
You may be interested to know that a very good comrade of mine for nearly 20 years and dedicated National Socialist (from the old Nordic Imperium School that I support) recently won an elected elected office In Gotland. He is planning on visiting the states in the near term to meet with some 15 or so NA supporters (as well as about the same number of ITP types) to set up a few conferances on community activism and electioneering methods. His wife will translate for him and with a bit of luck he should be able to get some sort of long term training/activism program going. I tried the same thing last year but the American government took away my visa and tossed me out of the country after a brief, but unpleasent bout with homeland security thugs. I got a bit of good work done but it was just a start.
In any case, give my fondest regards to your family.
FFF,
V.O.
2003-06-18 20:56 | User Profile
Thank you, Triskelion, for posting this article. I believe that the only way American Nationalists will ever get their act together is by Europeans like you laying down the law. The bigest problem that we have is the conservative/libertarian thing. People refuse to drop these useless ideologies and address the real issues. You Europeans in way have been blessed by the lack of a strong mainstream "right" in your societies.
2003-06-18 21:16 | User Profile
Hello W.R.I.T.O.S (by the way, what does the name mean?) and thanks for your kind words.
The matter of dismal state of post-America and what passes for opposition to the current order has been something that bothers most Eurocentrics elsewhere. A very common problem that I face is that most racialists in Europa view America as a lost cause and want nothing to do with what happens there. It seems to me that roughly 200 million Occidentals in America deserve better and that one can't be pan European while foresaking our racial kindred accross the seas. I also have friends and relatives in your country and I worry greatly about them. Of course, I suspect that the movements in the states are so fundimentally deffective that they will never do anythign productive but that simply places a larger obligation upon those that do care.
2003-06-19 00:45 | User Profile
Thanks for the kind words, Triskelion.
I earnestly hope that if your activist friend plans on being in the Middle Atlantic states, that he will write or email me to see if his schedule permits us to meet.
With my best to you and yours as well,
Kevin. [url=http://www.kevin-strom.com/]http://www.kevin-strom.com/[/url] [url=http://www.revilo-oliver.com/]http://www.revilo-oliver.com/[/url]
2003-06-19 21:06 | User Profile
Hello Mr. Strom,
Thank you for your supportive comments. I am unsure about the travel details for my comrades beyond that fact that they will be in the deep South, South West and California. I do know that they will be about for something like 10 days and plan on hitting a few other areas. This board allows members to send I.M.'s so feel free to get me an email address and I'll have him get in touch with you.
2003-06-22 04:08 | User Profile
Recent exchanges have prompted me to revisit TR's central theme of the need to remove "skinheads, Klansmen and Nazis" from white nationalism as a means of advancing the struggle. First of course comes the matter of identifying those terms. Determining who is a Klansman is self evidently a matter of one belonging to a group that identifies itself as such. I have zero interest in any Klan group and I have had very poor experiences with people attracted to those groups and see no advantage to working with the various tiny Klan cliques. The other categories are not so easily addressed.
Starting with skinheads we could likely all agree that the freaks in TR's photo gallery are walking stereotypes right out of ADL/SPLC/OPP etc. material that are clearly unappealing to almost everyone and a liability to genuine racialism as they likely are drunken hooligans with zero interest in real activism. A great deal of racially inclined skins, in Europa a clear majority, don't look or act like that although I am aware that in America the unsavory element is clearly the rule. In fact, in a great many skinhead circles such people are looked upon with disdain as they should be. The better element of racial skins have far fewer tattoos and don't evoke Hitler a-al-Hollywood imagery, are well groomed but clearly prefer wearing the traditional "No.1 crop", boots, braces and flight jackets etc. as they have since the late ââ¬Ë60s. Assuming that such people are sober, serious working class young men with a desire for being active in nationalist politics as many of them are should we accept them? The so called "Traditional skins" are nearly uniformly clean cut, middle class lads that looked pretty much the way I did when I was young in terms of dress. They are vaguely in favour of an undefined patriotism/nationalism and are quite often open to a well thought out pitch in favour of racialism and various working class issues. Plenty of former skins still have short hair and a few tattoos resulting in a look very much like Mr. Doles who has gotten so much attention here or numerous working class whites who also wear heavy boots at work, have short hair and tattoos but have zero attachment to the skin scene. Should we recruit these sorts in to our ranks if they seem interested? Should we cater to the better element of skins by selling music (not hatecore/NSBM but oi, RAC or other nationalist genres) or clothes (of the traditional skin type rather then Hitlerian fetish crap) or not?
Obviously, a common thug covered in purposely outrageous tattoos interested in drunken brawling has no place in a racialist organization and all worth while racialist groups in Europa actively discourage such people from joining. From my personal experience it seems that roughly 1 in 3 to 4 racially inclined skins in Europa proper are suitable raw material for worth while activism, and perhaps one in 5 or 6 in the states is of similar utility, provided they are treated with respect and a more mature racialist takes the time to encourages them to move beyond vague feelings/slogans into practical activism or more substantive ideological thinking.
As to "nazis" the ambiguity is a bit more pronounced. In part this is because according to the propasphere everyone that rejects multi-racialism or is critical of the jews in aggregate is a "nazi". As an example, I have heard plenty of leftists label AR and the Buchananites as such . Setting aside such inanities we have the drunken thugs and costume fetish freaks of TR's ADL style photo collection of what is wrong with guttural racism whom we all agree are freaks that should be ejected from any serious racialist group. I strongly maintain such people are in no fashion National Socialists of any description. I have dealt with the matter of VNN and Mr. Linder in the "Linder reappraised" thread so I won't cover that again here.
Next we come to those that everyone could agree to call a "nazi" or National Socialists which includes actual NSDAP members and those that openly advocate faithfully adhering to the style and real policies, as opposed to Hollywood crafted fantasies, promoted by the Third Reich. Such people are exceedingly rare in the states to such an extent that I don't see the need to consider them within the American context.
Next we come to the most pertinent segment, to the American scene, of people that are nearly universally labeled as "nazis" because they state an affinity with certain elements of the NSDAP era in terms of making America an Occidental nation once again. Such people are the majority of the NA membership as well as a great number of organizationally unaffiliated but racially aware Occidental Americans. In terms of ideology most of such people are not broadly sportive of the spirit and substance of the NSDAP but instead hold to the basic tenor of that movement's racial vision if no other associative aspect of the thinking that comprised the party's world view. Of course, such a description seems to fit TR as well given this quote:
[quot] and "Maybe you'll come to see that it's not the racial beliefs I disapprove of when it comes to Neo-Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK"[/quot]
Lastly, the phrase "nazi" could be a descriptor, although often inaccurate, for Radical Evolian Traditionalists like Bill White of www.overthrow.com as well as for a whole constellation of racial National Revolutionary movements and differing strains of National Socialism including mine. Given that TR has falsely portrayed myself and others as "nazis" and a "VNN lemming" clarification on his part is needed and more photos won't help. What will is a specific statement of what exactly he believes constitutes a "nazi" and why they should not be accepted into racialist organizations.
In practical terms the notion of purging people that TR finds undesirable has practical problems he has not addressed in enough detail. Specifically, the problem of keeping out the classes of people which he refers to as "skinheads and nazis" once those terms are meaningfully defined taking into account my comments above. For example, we most consider that once one has kicked out the costume fetish set and those that are obsessed with Hitlerian imagery, violent fantasies and other forms of mindless antagonism what other boundaries should exist in terms of ideology, style and conduct for racialists and how are they enacted by an organization? We should remember that if a racialist group banishes freaks chances are that some will show up to any large scale public event and that those are the people the Talmudvision will focus upon. In a similar manner one should note that the freaks in TR's pictures will continue to call themselves racists and the propasphere will always associate them with anyone that objects to multi-racialism which in turn will scare off a lot of the middle class that TR hopes to reach. The way around this problem comes back to my favorite topic of community activism which I covered in three articles pretty carefully.
Of this leads up to the question of how racialism should attempt to portray itself as the life affirming and positive force it is? The question of how to maintain a genuine racialism that avoids the twin evils of selling out and self indulgent extremism also needs to be raised as well. My answer to the first is found in my "Neither Left nor Right" article while the second is addressed in the "Nature of NS and the Dangers of Compromise" article. Both are to found in this forum and else where.
2003-06-22 04:13 | User Profile
When considering the matter of the extent to which the racial purity of an individual should determine his fitness to reside in a Occidental nation or be accepted within a Eurocentric organizations TR is right that often American racialists do not consider the matter closely. That said, it seems that given the racial situation within the states a higher degree of flexibility is justified then is the case Europa proper. In the hopes of providing a bit of clarification/expansion to my very brief comments made else where on the subject here at O.D. is the following:
As Eurocentric racialists our concerns should be solely with what are commonly referred to as "whites". The term "whites" refers to those individuals whose ancestry is overwhelmingly or entirely derived from the indigenous populations of Europa that are genotypically unique from the larger branch of humanity know as Caucasoids or humanity in general. In terms of separating out Occidentals from the rest of humanity for the purpose of deciding who is racially fit to live within an Occidental nation outside of Europa (ex. America) a decent start is to use census data. Those that view themselves as something other then white or self identify as Jewish on the census are clearly not suitable for citizenship or long term residency. Obviously, those that support organizations clearly designed to advance alien races (ex. SPLC/ADL/OPP/MECHA/NAACP etc.) or organizations that openly promote sexual deviancy are also not suitable members of any society that seeks some sort of Eurocentric national renewal. The same can be said for those whites that co-habituate with aliens or have birthed children from such relations. A return to a pre 1965 immigration policy, reinstating anti-sodomy laws combined with a return of anti-miscegenation laws within the broader context of racial repatriation along the lines described above should go a long ways towards restoring a Eurocentric basis to society.
Those that seek membership within a self identified Eurocentric organizations should be held to a higher standard in terms racial purity. Namely, they should take genetic tests which demonstrate a genetic make up that is no less then 75% European Gentile as well as solely self identifying as such. A similar standard should be required for those that intend to obtain employment in the public sector or vital private industries such as finance, telecommunications, engineering, armaments, aerospace, media or education.
As earlier research posted has proven that Jews are not racially Occidental with no note worthy challenges I will simply let that matter stand. However, I am still hoping for an encouraging reply from TR to some queries made in the "Congratulations, National Alliance" thread. Specifically:
[quot] So, just to make myself perfectly clear, I do not include anyone but European whites to be truly "white" - in the strictest white nationalist sense. [/quot]
to which I stated
[quot] I will hope that you would then agree as a White Nationalist that Jews, Arabs, Pakistanis and similar peoples should not be accepted as members of Occidental nations.[/quot]
Given that TR said
[quot] Therefore, let me reiterate: I do not accept Jews per se as "white" - that is, those that are obviously semitic in appearance, anymore than I would accept as "white" a man who was mostly white, but had obvious native American Indian traits. My objective is to more clearly define what is white. [/quot]
I hope to hear him state that he finds my comments with respect to standards of racial purity within the confines I have detailed within this post, or something fairly similar, as an agreeable basis for determining who is white within society at large and within the context of racial advocacy groups and employment within vital industries within the private sector and government at large.
2003-06-24 01:46 | User Profile
I must say that I am very surprised to see that TR has not addressed a single point raised in this thread. In the last two posts I went to some length to examine the only two themes he has raised here as they deserve to be addressed much more then they are. I am at a loss to explain why he has not expressed a similar willingness to address the matters that he dwells on so intently.
2003-06-24 12:30 | User Profile
*Originally posted by triskelion@Jun 23 2003, 19:46 * ** I must say that I am very surprised to see that TR has not addressed a single point raised in this thread. In the last two posts I went to some length to examine the only two themes he has raised here as they deserve to be addressed much more then they are. I am at a loss to explain why he has not expressed a similar willingness to address the matters that he dwells on so intently. **
Mr. Rennick is a troll; trolls do not respond to rational arguments, but prefer rather to bait and irritate others. I look forward to when Tex's patience and benevolence run out and he banishes Mr. Rennick from this forum.
2003-06-25 18:04 | User Profile
P. Son --
Rennick has been banned from VNN Forum.
Again, I gotta wonder about a guy who, it seems to me, wants to remove half of the WN movement [neo-Nazis, Klan, etc.] from that WN movement. Odd, if'n ya ask me...
2003-06-25 18:34 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son+Jun 24 2003, 05:30 -->
QUOTE* (Prodigal Son @ Jun 24 2003, 05:30 ) <!--QuoteBegin-triskelion@Jun 23 2003, 19:46 * ** I must say that I am very surprised to see that TR has not addressed a single point raised in this thread. In the last two posts I went to some length to examine the only two themes he has raised here as they deserve to be addressed much more then they are. I am at a loss to explain why he has not expressed a similar willingness to address the matters that he dwells on so intently. ** Mr. Rennick is a troll; trolls do not respond to rational arguments, but prefer rather to bait and irritate others. I look forward to when Tex's patience and benevolence run out and he banishes Mr. Rennick from this forum. **
Do you know the Lead Moderator at VNN forum, by the way? His sig line is complimentary to your avatar here ;)
triskelion
2003-06-26 03:36 | User Profile
With respects to the earlier comments by others on this thread all that needs to be said is that those that have have valid cases attempt to make them. TR has not, so I will concluede that he can't or won't address the matters I raised in an honest fashion. That being the aparent case I see no reason for aonyone here (save false racialists like Ares) to bother responding to his endless "nazis/skinheads must be purged" posts.