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Thread 7317

Thread ID: 7317 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2003-06-13

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Patrick [OP]

2003-06-13 14:14 | User Profile

.....I realize I'm a newbie, but I joined because I saw good intellect on this board and good discussions; I tend to stick with what I know, hence, this corner of the forum, altough, I'll probably show up in the History and Political sections, and perhaps Foreign Affairs, as well, but I see some erroneous ideas concerning Christianity and would appreciate being engaged... I'm not trying to impose, but am I asking too early for a new kid on the block?

weisbrot

2003-06-13 14:33 | User Profile

Here's one topic of discussion: Where did you find this bit of info? I would very much appreciate links.

[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?showtopic=8423&st=20&#entry44043entry44043]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...44043entry44043[/url]

> "Graham's DUTY was to at least mention Jews."*

Is it?

.....What if he were one? His real name is Billy Franks; is that a clue?*

Other ways of generating/inciting discussion:

-Ask "Walter Yannis" about priesthood of the believer -Request that "Texas Dissident" explain dispensationalism in three sentences or less -Display a crucifix to "Franco"; and, assuming he doesn't immediately dissolve into dust, request his reactions to the sight

xmetalhead

2003-06-13 15:08 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 09:14 * ** ......but I see some erroneous ideas concerning Christianity and would appreciate being engaged... **

Welcome Patrick. Hang in there with the posts.....some catch fire and some sputter and burn out quick.....it's not personal.

As for your quote above, the biggest misconstrued and erroneous statements concerning Christianity is that "God loves everyone". No He does not. Read Romans Chapters 1 & 2 as one example. The other "problem" many have with Christianity is Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount". Using What's-his-name's-Razor, if you believe in working yourself to Salvation (works) you will be dumbfounded, distressed, frustrated and always find yourself in violation of "loving your enemy" while if you truly believe and have faith that Salvation is only through God's Grace (grace) to open your eyes to your own sinful, reprobate and damned state through the work of the Holy Spirit and in turn repent and give all Glory to God alone, then your soul is saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ and not because you "loved your enemy" and "gave your last dime to a homeless person".

Patrick, does this open discussion?

Patrick

2003-06-13 15:16 | User Profile

”Where did you find this bit of info? I would very much appreciate links.”

weisbrot...

.....I’ve known about him for years, actually; I first read of him from Wille Martin, IIRC, but you may find something here...

http:\\christianparty.net/talmud.htm

.....I’ll see if I have it from somewhere else in the meantime...

”-Request that “Texas Dissident” explain dispensationalism in three sentences or less”

.....I’m pretty familiar with “dispensationalism”, however, when I use the term “dispensation”, I generally use the denotative meaning of “period of time”, chronologically speaking, as opposed to the connotative gnostic nonsense from the main; but I’m game... Texas dissident? Three sentences, please, (take four if need be :) )...

”-Ask “Walter Yannis” about priesthood of the believer”

.....Are we talking about the Levitical Priesthood, here? I am concerned only with that of the Israelites, and I have a friend that has gone much further into this area than I, but I do find it fascinating... I also know that we caucasian Israelites were to be Kings and Priests...

”-Display a crucifix to “Franco”; and, assuming he doesn’t immediately dissolve into dust, request his reactions to the sight”

.....Sounds like fun; would Franco tell me that Our Christ was not hung on a “cross”, but on a stauros/death stake, much as the mythological death stake of the ishtar story? Perhaps he’s aware that the “cross” has no place in Christianity, as the pagan symbol that it is, and was not brought into the “church” until 326 A.D. by Constantine’s mother, Helena, as a symbol of the solar wheel for her sun-worship silliness; I know, he’ll tell me that the mark of the beast finds it’s translation in Strong’s #5516, the khee zee stigma, (phonetically speaking), and that it is reflective of the abominations of the whore of Babylon and the so-called “church”, (read: whorehouse), of our day... I would then have to agree with him...

Patrick

2003-06-13 15:26 | User Profile

”As for your quote above, the biggest misconstrued and erroneous statements concerning Christianity is that “God loves everyone”. No He does not. Read Romans Chapters 1 & 2 as one example.”

.....Agreed; “Shouldest thou help the unGodly, and love those who hate YHVH? Therefore is wrath upon you”, (paraphrasing, obviously), but Our Father has enemies, and Psalm, 139, (IIRC), talks about that “perfect hatred”... Malachai, one, also speaks to “hatred”, (love less), for Esau...

”The other “problem” many have with Christianity is Jesus’ “Sermon on the Mount”. Using What’s-his-name’s, (Ocam's-Patrick), -Razor, if you believe in working yourself to Salvation (works) you will be dumbfounded, distressed, frustrated and always find yourself in violation of “loving your enemy” while if you truly believe and have faith that Salvation is only through God’s Grace (grace) to open your eyes to your own sinful, reprobate and damned state through the work of the Holy Spirit and in turn repent and give all Glory to God alone, then your soul is saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ and not because you “loved your enemy” and “gave your last dime to a homeless person”.”

.....In proper context, He was speaking to enemies “within the brethren”, as opposed to the alien stranger; likewise, the “turn the other cheek”, in context, was restricted to being between brethren, when discussing Doctrine, and not at all meant for universal application... Peter tells us “faith without works is dead”; that’s not to say the “works” of those presently in Babylon amounts to much, but what good is faith should we not be “about Our Father’s business”?

xmetalhead

2003-06-13 16:00 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 10:26 * ** ”As for your quote above, the biggest misconstrued and erroneous statements concerning Christianity is that “God loves everyone”. No He does not. Read Romans Chapters 1 & 2 as one example.”*

.....Agreed; “Shouldest thou help the unGodly, and love those who hate YHVH? Therefore is wrath upon you”, (paraphrasing, obviously), but Our Father has enemies, and Psalm, 139, (IIRC), talks about that “perfect hatred”... Malachai, one, also speaks to “hatred”, (love less), for Esau...

”The other “problem” many have with Christianity is Jesus’ “Sermon on the Mount”. Using What’s-his-name’s, (Ocam's-Patrick), -Razor, if you believe in working yourself to Salvation (works) you will be dumbfounded, distressed, frustrated and always find yourself in violation of “loving your enemy” while if you truly believe and have faith that Salvation is only through God’s Grace (grace) to open your eyes to your own sinful, reprobate and damned state through the work of the Holy Spirit and in turn repent and give all Glory to God alone, then your soul is saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ and not because you “loved your enemy” and “gave your last dime to a homeless person”.”

.....In proper context, He was speaking to enemies “within the brethren”, as opposed to the alien stranger; likewise, the “turn the other cheek”, in context, was restricted to being between brethren, when discussing Doctrine, and not at all meant for universal application... Peter tells us “faith without works is dead”; that’s not to say the “works” of those presently in Babylon amounts to much, but what good is faith should we not be “about Our Father’s business”? **

Patrick, interesting view of the context of Jesus' commandments. I'll have to read again and study again the whole context. Also, of course, I understand "faith without works is dead". As someone saved by Grace, will repent and be "reborn" of the old sinful man and put on the "new man".....that is a fruit of salvation. But that some denominations are built upon "you will make it to heaven if you believe in Christ, BUT, also, you must perform these requirements in addition if you want salvation"....

Ephesians 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 ** According as He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;**8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Pat, Ocam's Razor: You can't save yourself by yourself.

weisbrot

2003-06-13 16:34 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 11:16 * ** ”Where did you find this bit of info? I would very much appreciate links.”*

weisbrot...

.....I’ve known about him for years, actually; I first read of him from Wille Martin, IIRC, but you may find something here...

http:\\christianparty.net/talmud.htm

.....I’ll see if I have it from somewhere else in the meantime... **

Nope, not there.

Patrick

2003-06-13 16:55 | User Profile

.....I'll keep looking... ;)

Patrick

2003-06-13 18:25 | User Profile

.....I see Ed Toner is a member here; perhaps he's familiar with it from Mr. Martin... Either way, I'll continue looking, but truth be told, these boards keep my archives in a state of flux, and I hate filing...

weisbrot

2003-06-13 18:47 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 14:25 * ** .....I see Ed Toner is a member here; perhaps he's familiar with it from Mr. Martin... Either way, I'll continue looking, but truth be told, these boards keep my archives in a state of flux, and I hate filing... **

Give up yet?

Patrick

2003-06-13 19:02 | User Profile

hehehe...

.....Certainly not that easily; you should see my archives... :)

weisbrot

2003-06-13 19:14 | User Profile

Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 15:02 * *hehehe...

.....Certainly not that easily; you should see my archives... :)**

Good.

This might fit into your archives:

[url=http://www.demossnewspond.com/fgf/presskit/factsheet.htm]http://www.demossnewspond.com/fgf/presskit...t/factsheet.htm[/url]. BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION FACT SHEET Chairman: William “Billy” Franklin Graham, II (1950 – present) President/CEO: William Franklin Graham, III Founded: 1950, by William Franklin Graham, II

[url=http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/g1epc/bio/2419200476/p1/article.jhtml?term=heather+graham]http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/g1epc/bio...=heather+graham[/url] When he was born on November 7, 1918, in Charlotte, North Carolina, there was nothing to suggest that William Franklin Graham, Jr., would become a world-renowned personality. His parents were God-fearing country people who reared Billy Frank and his siblings to read the Bible, pray often, and work hard on the family's dairy farm. Graham was 16 years old when Mordecai Ham, a fire-and-brimstone evangelist, came to Charlotte. Like most adolescent males, Billy Frank was more interested in cars, baseball, and girls than in anything an evangelist had to offer.

Billy Frank. Joe Bob. There you have it.

Thanks for the tip on the Identity website- I haven't seen the Protocols or Benjamin Franklin's little chat (Benjie Frank) given so much respect in quite a while.

Patrick

2003-06-13 19:55 | User Profile

.....I don't believe I had said you should go there and believe everything you see; your reference to Franks was not the one I was speaking of...

whitehomeland

2003-06-13 20:17 | User Profile

while if you truly believe and have faith that Salvation is only through God’s Grace (grace) to open your eyes to your own sinful, reprobate and damned state through the work of the Holy Spirit and in turn repent and give all Glory to God alone, then your soul is saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ

This is an example of how Christians are full of self hate. They think that their natures or corrupt, impure, and evil and it is only because of the Jewish god took human form and living amongst them that they are redeemed. This is pathetic. Christiantiy is based on the Negative concept that that Jews have craated for people outside of their society. The original white societies were the pagan society's. Rome, Greece, Sumeria, Celts, Germanic tribes, etc

Your reinterpretation of Jesus claim love your enemies is a joke. Jesus believed that we should love our enemies because everyone is created in Gods image and therefore of equal worth.

weisbrot

2003-06-13 20:40 | User Profile

*Originally posted by Patrick@Jun 13 2003, 15:55 * ** .....I don't believe I had said you should go there and believe everything you see; your reference to Franks was not the one I was speaking of... **

My request for clarification was quite clear.

That aside, can you provide some backup on your claim that Billy Graham's "real" name is "Franks", and for your implication that he is a Jew?

I'm aware that the leading Christian Identity philosopher Willie Martin has made those claims. Assuming you don't believe everything you see, you should have ample resources to use in backing up your own statements.

Patrick

2003-06-13 21:08 | User Profile

”This is an example of how Christians are full of self hate.”

.....”judeo”-Christians, perhaps; and again, there is no such thing...

whitehomeland

2003-06-13 22:31 | User Profile

This was your quote

[COLOR=blue]while if you truly believe and have faith that Salvation is only through God’s Grace (grace) to open your eyes to your own sinful, reprobate and damned state through the work of the Holy Spirit and in turn repent and give all Glory to God alone, then your soul is saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ

You claim to be sinful, reprobate, and possessing a damned state. You claim that only the Jewish god can save you worthless piece of :dung: .

That sounds like self hate to me.

Christianity is based on the negative ideas that the Jews have created for people outside of their culture. The Jews believe that they are gods chosen and they believe that everyone else outside of their society is corrupt, unethical and unclean. Christianity agrees with Jews on these points. Christians believe that the Jewish god lived amgost man and died so that he could redeemed. The Jews still think that you are a worthless pile of :dung: They do not want you in Isreal or as members of their families.

The Jews have made Aryans so false that even a Christian can have anti Jewish feelings without recognizing that he is the most profound Jewish creation. Christian idenity followers are Aryans who natures have been thoroughly perverted by Christianity that they actually think that they are the original Jews. You people need to go to a mental institution.

Patrick

2003-06-14 03:50 | User Profile

"This was your quote"

.....I was quoting the poster above; you'll have to read me a bit more carefully than the reading you've done of Mr. Hale... When I italicize, it is a quote that I am responding to; perhaps you've picked up your reading comprehension skills in a similar happenstance way, just as the silliness you espouse as Scripture, when all it is, is Matt Hale's, (or his idol's), lies about Scripture... is that also where you've studied your "history"? Just wondering; it seems on par...

jjbrouwer

2003-06-14 03:56 | User Profile

No one is perfect - except me.

Patrick

2003-06-14 16:35 | User Profile

*"My request for clarification was quite clear.

That aside, can you provide some backup on your claim that Billy Graham's "real" name is "Franks", and for your implication that he is a Jew?"*

Here's a start...

[url=http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/jewish.htm]http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/jewish.htm[/url]

About the middle of the page...

"The actual heritage and name of Billy Graham: There is a connection between Marxism and a group of Satanists called Frankists. One of the strongest satanic cults to take control over the Jewish population was called Sabbatianism. Jakob Frank assumed the role of leader of this group, and afterward this brand of satanism was called Frankism. (Freud’s sexually-obsessed theories came from Frankism.) Frank taught his followers to convert to another religion and hide behind that religion to practice their satanism. (One of several book on the subject of Frankism is The Contemporary Faces of Satan by Ratibor-Ray M. Jurjevich.) Billy Graham’s family when they originally came over to this nation were of the Frank family which is related to Jakob Frank. After coming over to this nation, they changed their name to Graham which is a Scottish name. Two groups of people who are over represented in the power structure over the last 200 years are Scots and cabalistic satanic "jews." Obviously, not all Scotsmen nor jews are involved in the NWO.

Several other researchers independently discovered that Billy Graham’s heritage was the jewish Frank family. However, Fritz was beginning to suspect that there must be some kind of jewish blood in Billy Graham’s heritage, because of the all the things he would stumble upon. For instance, the intimate connections Graham had with Jewish leaders and Jewish Christian ministries. And his assurances to them that they are God’s chosen people, a special group. Graham privately told them, that because they are a special chosen group they don’t need to come to Christ. (Fritz discovered all this by accident reading Jewish literature.) Further, the paper called "The C-9 Report For internal use only" states on page 11 that Billy Graham’s daughters have lived in Israel, and that Billy Graham’s son fought with the Israeli army in the Six-Day War. "

Drakmal

2003-06-15 07:36 | User Profile

**"-Display a crucifix to "Franco"; and, assuming he doesn’t immediately dissolve into dust, request his reactions to the sight"

.....Sounds like fun; would Franco tell me that Our Christ was not hung on a “cross”, but on a stauros/death stake, much as the mythological death stake of the ishtar story? Perhaps he’s aware that the “cross” has no place in Christianity, as the pagan symbol that it is, and was not brought into the “church” until 326 A.D. by Constantine’s mother, Helena, as a symbol of the solar wheel for her sun-worship silliness; I know, he’ll tell me that the mark of the beast finds it’s translation in Strong’s #5516, the khee zee stigma, (phonetically speaking), and that it is reflective of the abominations of the whore of Babylon and the so-called “church”, (read: whorehouse), of our day... I would then have to agree with him...**

If such an explanation could be translated to baby talk, Franco might offer such. :)

The most common way to start a discussion here seems to be to post an article, be it news or opinion, and then start talking about the points contained therein. It's a good format, though a little limiting at times. Another thing you could do would be to just jump right in with some topic you have questions or opinions about.