← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Tom Rennick

Thread 7316

Thread ID: 7316 | Posts: 87 | Started: 2003-06-13

Wayback Archive

Tom Rennick [OP]

2003-06-13 07:42 | User Profile

[SIZE=3]CONGRATULATIONS, NATIONAL ALLIANCE![/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Von Bluven's Show Gives NA Leader Erich Gliebe Their Annual FUC*K YOU Award[/SIZE]

Of late I'm not the only one who seems to "hate all the prominent White Nationalists", as a fellow OD member by the name of "Wayland" claimed. In fact, I just got through listening to the Von Bluven's Show, which spent 45 very interesting minutes bashing the living hell out of The National Alliance. Now, keep in mind that the Von Bluven's Show is rabidly anti-Jew in every single thing they say and do - and yet Von Bluven and his co-host Doc tore into The National Alliance like a couple of Al-Qaeda trained pit bulls.

Now, one might ask what would possess Von Bluven's to do such a nasty thing, or why co-host "Doc" would call National Alliance's glorious Obersturmfuehrer Erich Gliebe "a Jew" during the course of the show. Well, it would appear that the National Alliance is very keen when it comes to collecting membership dues from its rank and file but not so interested when it comes to helping one of their own when he's in desperate need. As Von Bluven explains, Erich Gliebe was "advised" against helping pay for Chester Doles attorney fees for "legal reasons".

Yeah, right.

Can you say BIG FAT LIE, children?

The Von Bluven's Show certainly can. For 45 minutes they trashed the National Alliance, its leaders, its ethics, and even its claim to being a legitimate agent of white nationalism any longer. Kinda like what yours truly Tom Rennick here has been saying for some time, and getting sand kicked in his face for it. sniff

Anyway, it'll be fun to see if the guys from the Von Bluven's Show will now be smeared as "Jews" by Franco, PaleoconAvatar, and all the other Neo-Nazi/VNN/skinhead worshippers who hang out here at Original Dissent.

Maybe not though....since there isn't any doubt whatsoever that The National Alliance hasn't lifted a bloody finger to help Chester Doles. In fact, word has it that top leadership at the National Alliance has quietly suggested to Doles that he "cop a plea" in order to get a reduced prison sentence. Gee, with advice like that, who needs enemies?

Join the National Alliance today - just don't get caught!

[img]http://www.class.csupomona.edu/colorfulflags/south%20africa%202.jpg[/img]

na Gaeil is gile

2003-06-13 10:44 | User Profile

What’s your point Tom, besides the fact you don’t like the NA? Chester Doles is one of those neo-Nazi/VNN/Skinhead types you despise so much. He even has – drumroll – tattoos! So why would you care about his fate? You should be rejoicing that yet another piece of “human sewage clogging up the free flow of progress in the pipeline of white nationalism” is off the streets.

naBaron

2003-06-13 13:07 | User Profile

**Erich Gliebe was "advised" against helping pay for Chester Doles attorney fees for "legal reasons". **

Could be the best legal advice he's received. If the NA paid for the defense, this provides one of the 'links' that RICO prosecutors thrive on. And before you legal eagles on the board tell me the law ain't written that way, I'll point out that the law is mighty flexible when it comes to 'caging Nazis'...

Tom Rennick

2003-06-13 14:48 | User Profile

Leland Gaunt said:

[color=red]"The allegations the Bluvens show is making against the NA is based on what evidence? And of course it would be interesting to know what the contribution of the von Bluvens show for the freedom of chester doles has been?" [/color]

Well, in regard to the above statement, the only explanation as to why The Von Bluven's Show hosts haven't contributed to Chester Doles defense fund is because they're Jews. Hymies, both of 'em. You know, kikes. I mean, what other possible reason could there be?

But I think you're missing the point here, Mr. Gaunt - the point being that Chester Doles is a NATIONAL ALLIANCE member. He's not a Von Bluven's Show member, but a NATIONAL ALLIANCE member. So it's not the responsibility of the Von Bluven's Show hosts to aid in Chester Doles' defense fund, anymore than it would be for CNN or Fox News to aid in his defense fund if they had reported this story instead. But then, the two guys who host the Von Bluven's Show are obviously Jews for daring to criticize the National Alliance, right? Franco and PaleoconAvatar know that, I'm sure. Just dirty Jews, both of 'em. Afterall, everybody knows that only a dirty Jew would criticize a fellow white nationalist.

na Gaeil is gile said:

[color=red]"What’s your point Tom, besides the fact you don’t like the NA? Chester Doles is one of those neo-Nazi/VNN/Skinhead types you despise so much. He even has – drumroll – tattoos! So why would you care about his fate? You should be rejoicing that yet another piece of “human sewage clogging up the free flow of progress in the pipeline of white nationalism” is off the streets." [/color]

Well, someone like me (who is obviously a Jew, of course) doesn't need a point. But sure, I can come up with one, if you want. Here, let me pull one out of my yarmulke for ya: Chester Doles is the leader of a National Alliance unit in Georgia. Chester Doles' unit turns out to have been infiltrated by a law enforcement mole, who get the goods on poor Chester over the next two years before slapping the cuffs on him. Now, while ol' Chester is locked inside a steel cage surrounded by horny nigs hungry to get hold of his booty, your highness Erich Gliebe and his high priest Kevin Strom are living the good life on the loot Resistance Records is raking in hand over fist - loot that could easily pay for Chester's defense. But hey, Doles is sunk and they know it, so why throw away 65 grand on a trial that can't be won.Still, it would have been nice if Gliebe and Strom had shown some loyalty to one of their own while he's in a jam - even if they had better things to do with that cash.

Guess that's my point, na Gaeil.

Hmmm....maybe Gliebe and Strom are Jews. Sounds just like what a coupla greedy Jews would do, ya know.

[img]http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/genes/images/pop_jewish.jpg[/img]

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-13 14:54 | User Profile

But then, the two guys who host the Von Bluven's Show are obviously Jews for daring to criticize the National Alliance, right? Franco and PaleoconAvatar know that, I'm sure.

Rennick,

Since you're spamming two threads with this stuff, I guess I'll have to balance it off here too, by posting what I did on the other thread:

Alright, let's stop right there.

I've never "smeared" anyone as a Jew who wasn't a Jew. In fact, it makes sense to be very careful to make sure that a person actually is a Jew before labeling them a Jew, otherwise the term will come to take on the status of an empty epithet that Whites use on each other. That, in turn, would give real Jews cover since exposing their true roots becomes more difficult if everyone and his mother is suddenly being called a "Jew."

Next, I've never listened to the VB show since I assumed it was a Hal Turner spinoff, and while I have nothing officially against HT, I think the level of discourse on the show was a little too unrefined for my tastes. I assumed that VB was in this same category. What distinguishes me from you on this sort of assessment is that I choose to focus on other things besides criticizing where VB or HT might fall short in my opinion. I simply don't listen to the two shows, and I generally keep my mouth shut about the two shows since I know that many people do listen to them and find value in those shows, and I see no benefit arising from triggering an argument with people that are basically on my side. As I pointed out to you over at Polinco, this seems a more positive route to take rather than constantly pointing fingers at various WNs and WN orgs harping about how they fall short in your eyes.

Additionally, I am no "skinhead worshipper." The first time this subject came up, I'd thought I indicated that. I'm a clean-cut, conventional-appearing, middle class young adult. I have hair, I have no tatoos, no piercings, etc. It is my opinion that one can gain more mileage by maintaining a "normal" physical appearance, rather than going out of one's way to look outrageous the way the skinheads do. I agree with you on that point, actually. I can't see how virulently clinging to a sub-culture helps to change the larger culture that we all live in--it's a form of self-marginalization. However, this is just one opinion of mine that I sometimes express when the subject comes up. Unlike you, it is not my sole message that I harp about 24/7/365.

Funny you'd lump me in with Franco, actually, because from where I'm standing, you're just as much of a repetitive one-note-johnny as he is--you just come at it with a different "pet issue."

And as for the NA/Doles funding dispute, I might as well make a comment while I'm at it. From what I've seen, a lot of people are upset that the NA isn't funding Doles' legal defense, and they plan to boycott the NA and so on. In my view, these people are overemotional and aren't looking at the big picture and the consequences that could flow from these sorts of decisions. The critics of the NA are favoring symbolism over substance, by making this one man's case a "line in the sand."

The reason why the NA should probably not fund Doles' defense is that while it may have the resources this time to fund Doles' defense, it does not have the resources to fund the potential defenses of all of its members in the future. This is an important point to realize because the Feds know this as well. If the NA were to adopt a policy of defending its members in these bogus Fed cases, the Feds would then have an easy way to bankrupt the NA, since the Feds are quite good at making up cases and filing charges at the drop of a hat. The Feds would simply file a few more cases and cause the NA to spend all of its resources on defending member after member. And if the NA tried to selectively decide to not fund certain members' defenses after that, people would again be up in arms anyway with the claim that the NA leadership was "playing favorites" with certain members. Hence, the NA just can't win on this issue.

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-13 16:18 | User Profile

It's also worth noting for Rennick's benefit that much like the Franco he cites in his posts, he's also pitching his message at the wrong audience, preaching to the choir again. Here at OD, unlike several other forums out there, there are no "88s" or swastika graphics and the like, and if Rennick would look through our past threads, he'd find that the level of discourse on this board is incredibly literate and refined.

madrussian

2003-06-13 17:19 | User Profile

Rennick is obsessed and can't help but tell everyone about it. Contrary to what he may think, he only adds to the image of WNs as whackos, being one. To me, this repetetive obsessed insect is no better than those tattoed guys he so despises he can't stop announcing it over and over here at OD. And I am sure psychiatrists would love to speculate on his tendency to use "cosmic" images on his web site.

:thd: :dung:

Tom Rennick

2003-06-13 19:11 | User Profile

[SIZE=3]A Case of The Pot Calling The Kettle Black[/SIZE]

Madrussian said:

[color=red]"Rennick is obsessed and can't help but tell everyone about it. Contrary to what he may think, he only adds to the image of WNs as whackos, being one."[/color]

If this isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is. I mean, isn't it a bit ironic that some guy calling himself "Madrussian" who not only uses the photographic likeness of one of history's most crazy people (Rasputin) but whose very name implies insanity should have the gall to call me "wacko"? Madrussian said:

[color=red]"To me, this repetetive obsessed insect is no better than those tattoed guys he so despises he can't stop announcing it over and over here at OD." [/color] I guess when I respond to various posts I'm guilty of being "repetitive" in Madrussian's view. Being called an "insect" made me cry "ouch", but I'll get over that as well. But in all seriousness, Madrussian and all the rest of the VNN lemmings just don't get it, even if you beat them over the head with it: Neo-Nazis and skinheads are HARMING the white nationalist movement. Talk all you want, make all the excuses you want, engage in all the ad hominem remarks you want, you just can't evade that fundamental truth. Believe me, if this issue was open to rational, intelligent discussion, the Neo-Nazis and the skinheads would have been given the bum's rush by now. But since that isn't the case, we continue to have droves of Hitler buffs, let's-all-dress-up-and-pretend-we're-a-Nazi-types, and mentally-deranged individuals who believe - actually * believe* - they can resurrect Hitler's Third Reich in North America - a group which Madrussian likely falls into.

Madrussian concluded:

[color=RED]"And I am sure psychiatrists would love to speculate on his tendency to use "cosmic" images on his web site."[/color]

The use of "cosmic images" on my website is not indicative of any form of mental illness, Mr. MADrussian. Quite the contrary, since such images symbolize high goals, optimism, and "reaching for the stars" - all sane and mentally sound objectives by any psychiatric standard.

But dressing up as a Nazi stormtrooper, defacing one's body with tattooed swastikas and Hitler slogans, and marching down Main Street bearing Nazi flags are ALL signs of severe mental problems. So even there your counter-argument falls short, Mr. Mad.

In summation, my goal is to make all serious white nationalists come together and decide: are Neo-Nazis causing our movement more harm than good? It's that simple, and any individual who refuses to shy away from that fundamental question will, of course, be attacked, ridiculed, called "repetitive", and, if all that fails - "a dirty Jew."

PaleoconAvatar said:

[color=red]"In fact, it makes sense to be very careful to make sure that a person actually is a Jew before labeling them a Jew, otherwise the term will come to take on the status of an empty epithet that Whites use on each other."[/color]

I'm afraid you're a bit late, Mr. Paleo. Calling another white nationalist whom you disagree with "a Jew" is standard operating procedure now, and has been for some time. If you doubt this, please take note that the two rabidly anti-Jew hosts of The Von Bluvens Show are now being called "Jews" by other white nationalists who took offense over their comments about the National Alliance.

Well, sieg heil to all you Nazis. I certainly don't won't to hold any of you up while you throw together another pointless Neo-Nazi rally down Main Street, USA. Afterall, I'm sure the Jewish media are anxious to get some fresh photos of your shaved-heads and "88" tattoos. [img]http://www.resistance.com/tattoos/tattoos.JPG[/img]

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-13 19:13 | User Profile

PaleoconAvatar: It's also worth noting for Rennick's benefit that much like the Franco he cites in his posts, he's also pitching his message at the wrong audience, preaching to the choir again. Here at OD, unlike several other forums out there, there are no "88s" or swastika graphics and the like, and if Rennick would look through our past threads, he'd find that the level of discourse on this board is incredibly literate and refined.

One deeper problem is that regardless of audience, Rennick preaches a message of dubious value and validity. He promotes the ideology of Alyssa Rosenbaum. He repeats ADL and SPLC propaganda about White organizations. He tells us to drive Nazis out of the movement, while staying silent about Objectivists, neotrotskyites, Zionists, etc. He urges us to shut our lowly gentile mouths when it comes to the Jewish question. No matter how you look at it, Hitler was more in the right than someone like Rennick ever could be.

Yes, he's been pulling the same thing over at Polinco:

[url=http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1319]http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.ph...=&threadid=1319[/url]

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-13 20:02 | User Profile

Thanks for the link, Paleo. Checking it now. Rennick is one sick piece of work.

No prob.

Do you think we'll see some substantial posts from Rennick that neither mention Ayn Rand nor point fingers at what other WNs/orgs are "doing wrong?"

Eendracht Maakt Mag

2003-06-13 20:09 | User Profile

For some reason, Mister Rennick here strongly reminds me of Mr. Corgi, the anti-Irish/Russian "white nationalist" Jew on the ARlist who "can't stop drooling" over Latina women... don't ask me why...

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-13 20:14 | User Profile

Well, sieg heil to all you Nazis. I certainly don't won't to hold any of you up while you throw together another pointless Neo-Nazi rally down Main Street, USA. Afterall, I'm sure the Jewish media are anxious to get some fresh photos of your shaved-heads and "88" tattoos.

If you knew anything about this board, you'd know better than to call us "Nazis" and refer to "shaved heads" and "88 tattoos."

I'm afraid you're a bit late, Mr. Paleo. Calling another white nationalist whom you disagree with "a Jew" is standard operating procedure now, and has been for some time. If you doubt this, please take note that the two rabidly anti-Jew hosts of The Von Bluvens Show are now being called "Jews" by other white nationalists who took offense over their comments about the National Alliance.

I am well aware that some WNs are rather "fast and loose" in who they label a "Jew." I consider that an error on their part since indiscriminate use of the label lessens its effectiveness in truly identifying actual Jews. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of the boy who cried "wolf."

And that leads me to my next point: here, you're the boy who cries, "Nazi!" Your chief shortcoming is that you have not learned how to adequately discriminate between "skinheads" and the paleoconservatives and allied White Nationalists found at this board.

madrussian

2003-06-13 20:53 | User Profile

Yes, he's been pulling the same thing over at Polinco:

[url=http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1319]http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.ph...=&threadid=1319[/url]**

Is there a troll conservation law? Just when this forum is no longer graced by churbanowitz, another clown takes his place. :dung:

PaleoconAvatar

2003-06-14 01:05 | User Profile

Originally posted by Leland Gaunt+Jun 13 2003, 20:23 -->

QUOTE (Leland Gaunt @ Jun 13 2003, 20:23 )

QUOTE (madrussian @ Jun 13 2003, 14:53 ) <!--QuoteBegin-PaleoconAvatar@Jun 13 2003, 12:13 * *Yes, he's been pulling the same thing over at Polinco: [url=http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1319]http://www.polinco.com/forum/showthread.ph...=&threadid=1319[/url]** Is there a troll conservation law? Just when this forum is no longer graced by churbanowitz, another clown takes his place. :dung: ** I just looked at that link of the Forum you posted. Can you tell me what kind of ppl post there? Is it a nationalist-forum? I see a guy named IrishJay there. Is that the same fellow from SF? You know, the guy who is obsessed with his earings. :D LOL ** Yes, it's a nationalist forum. Some of the posters from the old Sam Francis Online Forum migrated there when the SFoF was shut down, just as the bulk of them ended up here at OD as well. The Polinco forum had its own dedicated subforum for the Jim Giles congressional campaign last election. And yes, that is the IrishJay who's the Stormfront mod. Campion Moore Boru 2003-06-14 02:53 | User Profile Mr. Rennick, Forgive me if this has been asked of you before, but are you the same gentleman who wrote Holl of The Ravens, and is in some vague bloodfeud with Pierce? The name of the author escapes me. Tom Rennick 2003-06-14 04:21 | User Profile [SIZE=3]Harold Covington - The X Factor[/SIZE] Campion Moore Boru said: [color=purple]"Mr. Rennick, forgive me if this has been asked of you before, but are you the same gentleman who wrote Holl of The Ravens, and is in some vague bloodfeud with Pierce? The name of the author escapes me."[/color] Mr. Boru: The gentleman you're referring to (or fishing for?) is named Harold Covington. He wrote the novel in question, along with several others that I've heard of. Though I know little about him, I think he was involved in some disagreement with the National Alliance at one time, and possibly Dr. Pierce himself, though of that I'm not certain. Beyond that, I know little about him, other than what I've heard on the Internet grapevine. But if you think Mr. Covington is mysterious, he's nothing compared to the enigmatic H. Millard. Mr. Millard is the most well-known unknown white nationalist in existence, and if you or anyone else ever discovers his true identity, it would be big news in white nationalist circles. Tom Franco 2003-06-14 05:01 | User Profile Uh...it should be noted that both Covington and H. Millard are not, uhmm, 'respected' by many people in the WN movement. Why single out these 2 people?? Not good examples of mainstream WN people. And, I might ask, why does Rennick go out of his way NOT to mention the taproot of the death of the West -- Jews? As if Jews did not invent Communism, leftism, feminism, the Frankfurt School, etc., etc., etc. Talk, Mr. Rennick. And be clear. Don't avoid the issues I raised by tossing around photos/comments relating to super-duper eeeeevil skinheads. I got that message already. Why don't you Name The Joo? Are you Jooish, Mr. Rennick? Roy Batty 2003-06-14 05:04 | User Profile Mr. Rennick, why the obsession with the tattooed fringe element? Honestly, as I've written before, the only WN's the media is going to allow to be shown espousing their views are the guys with the tats and attitudes. There isn't much we can do about that at the moment, and arguing over whether or not they should be allowed in the movement, the image they present, blah blah blah is a waste of time. Very few if any sensible looking or sounding WN's are going to receive "mainstream" exposure. It's a fact of life. Jared Taylor, who has made the mistake of welcoming jews into his organization has had the most exposure of any calm collected voice involved in awakening whites racially, and that exposure has been limited to two appearances on a cable show hosted by the vile Phil Donahue, and visits to shows on BET. No matter what show he has been on, the hosts and the other guests try to cut him off at every turn. Our allies in print fare worse in most cases. Fu*k worrying about what the skinheads and other "rough trade" are doing to the "movement". As had been said with other problems and in other threads, we'll iron out our differences when the major battles have been fought and won. Normal fellows (:D ?) like ourselves are the real foot soldiers for now. We're the ones that have to get the word out, even if it's as slow as one person at a time. The NA is almost unknown to most Americans. Period. If it didn't intimidate ZOG at some level, it would be far mor brutally trashed in the media than it has. In truth, it receives little mention in comparison with other elements of the movement, like the tattoed crowd that seems to give you the willies. Oh, they try and associate the two on occasion, but Pierce had very little play in the mainstream media. Do you think they would like to have Strom as a guest on any show where he would be allowed to speak his mind, come of as rational? You may see him somewhere on the tube trying to be heard above the clamor of screaming congoids, mestizos and ADL members, but you won't see him get near the exposure one shot of a skinhead in handcuffs will. The "image" is out of our hands when it comes to the media. It's up to us to do things on a personal level, get the ball rolling. The deteriorating situation in this country will help speed things along. It can only help us in the long run. We have a lot more to worry about than shaven headed steel toed bruisers sporting Nazi tats and studded leather wristbands. Or feuds between the NA, VB and others. We are the ones who will do the bulk of the "converting". Not organizations wasting time on petty squabbles. Squabbles that our enemies like to publicize and dwell on. The ADL and others keep their squabbles out of the public eye, or get assistance from a sympathetic media in doing so. That's a luxury we don't have. Keep that in mind. The DOC 2003-06-17 22:40 | User Profile A passing THOUGHT for all you NA Nazi's out there. You THINK, and I use that term VERY loosely, that we did this to boost ratings? Guess again. DOC quit the show today. Why you might ask? The National Alliance, used the time honored JEW tactic of getting to us through our server. Bye the way, I didn't make the claim that "Der Fervor" Gliebe was a Jew, just that he was acting like one. This proved my point nicely. White Planet was told to pull us or NA would stop using WhitePlanet.org and get the server shut down. Last week NA tried to pressure Alex Linder at VNN to fire Bill White. Read Alex Linder's reply at VNN. Linder has more clout that VB does so, to prevent White Planet from going under, I, the DOC, quit the show. You still think we did it for the ratings? Who can't you criticize? The Jews? Well, the Jews and the National Alliance it would seem. DOC Tom Rennick 2003-06-17 23:15 | User Profile [SIZE=3]Getting Jewed: The Truth Behind The National Alliance[/SIZE] The Doc said:> [color=blue]"The National Alliance, used the time honored JEW tactic of getting to us through our server." [/color] The leadership of the National Alliance should have known that their greed, corruption, and deception would be exposed sooner or later. Now that it has, and now that National Alliance members are starting to flee the organization in droves, many hard questions need to be asked. Who will ask them now? Franco 2003-06-17 23:32 | User Profile Rennster -- "Who will ask them now?" Why not you? Affer all [sp], you're the dude that does not even name Jews as a problem, and who moans about super-duper-wuper-evil Nazis. You are the perfect person to ask the NA such questions! In fact, you should be the new "Hate Expert" at OD! :D :D First question for the Hate Expert: was leftism, as we know it in the West, created by Jews? Careful how you answer. [hummm...hmmmm -- humming the love theme from the new TV comedy series "Auschwitz"...] Kevin Alfred Strom 2003-06-18 00:12 | User Profile People who haven't yet figured out that there is a Cointelpro-type organized attack taking place against the largest pro-White organization in the United States, the National Alliance, should take the simple step of comparing 1) the claim advanced, to wit, that the National Alliance said "it would stop using whiteplanet.org" for its radio programs if the "vonbluvens" show wasn't taken off the air, with 2) the actual schedule of whiteplanet.org at the following url: [url=http://whiteplanet.org/schedule.html]http://whiteplanet.org/schedule.html[/url] No one reading the schedule -- or, for that matter, merely looking at the url displayed when listening to the National Alliance radio programs -- can fail to draw the proper conclusions. With every good wish, Kevin. [url=http://www.kevin-strom.com/]http://www.kevin-strom.com/[/url] The DOC 2003-06-18 05:52 | User Profile What Kevin does NOT want pointed out is that NA pays White Planet $500 a month for it's message board. Quit lying (by omission) Mr. Strom, It's beneath you. Tell everyone the real truth. See, Kevin still has delusions of being an ethical man so he has a hard time lying about the White Planet connection. Note that he didn't say it didn't exist. Check with the webmaster at Resistance Records, NA's music company. Try this from VNN written by an NA member and a writer on the VNN staff! [url=http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/showEssay.asp?essayID=1430]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/sho...sp?essayID=1430[/url] If that doesn't show the Lying sad sacks at the NA for what they are nothing will. Do I have it in for the NA? You bet. I fully intend to drive a stake through your lying hearts. IF I can find any heart there. DOC PS As for largest? Well 30 years and ony 2000 members acording to Alex Linder, a member himself. 2000 and falling fast. I hope you have a "golden parachute." The DOC 2003-06-18 05:56 | User Profile I tell you what, why don't we just post the VNN letter? Uhhhhm, What? by NA Member Loaded: 6/17/2003 NA, Bill White, and the Pringle Defense By now everyone should be at least vaguely familiar with the NA/Bill White/Doles Fund controversy. NA Georgia Unit Leader Chester Doles is sitting in a ZOG jail staring down 10 years in prison, in need of $50,000 to hire a first-rate legal team, and some folks following the case take issue with National Alliance leadership for not doing enough to help Doles get that money. The issue was exacerbated after VNN announced the Goy Genius Chester Doles Challenge, an amazing act of generosity on behalf of an NA member and VNN supporter to match funds donated to VNN for Doles until July 4th up to $25,000. In response to this opportunity, Teresa Doles, Chester's wife, wrote, "Oh my god, this is such wonderful news! This is just what I've been waiting for!" Amidst the excitement however, it seemed odd that such a tremendous offer -- the Doleses' only real hope of getting the funding they need -- was coming from someone other than National Alliance HQ. Then, a couple weeks later when the first tally was taken and $3800 had been raised, it struck folks as low because they expected that the NA HQ (including its sister company Resistance Records) alone would have donated at least that much, if not more. Questions started being asked: How much has the NA allocated for Doles defense? Was their financial support limited to the auctioning of a painting and the raffling of a pair of boots? Certainly they knew about the Goy Challenge, why weren't they promoting it on their website, during their ADV broadcasts, or in some kind of mass-email to members? If the NA was not itself providing this caliber of direct financial support, shouldn't they, at the very least, shout the Goy Challenge opportunity as far and wide as possible, as often as possible, in as many ways as possible, to get that money coming in? It was oft repeated that "if ZOG can do this to Chester Doles, they could do it to anyone. You could be next." And many dues-paying NA members and supporters thought to themselves, "That's true. And if NA does for me what they've done so far for Doles, I'd be screwed too." Members started to ask, "Where are my dues and the profits from the book and CD purchases going, anyway? Why don't I know any of this?" Private mutterings then took public form. Overthrow published a petition airing these grievances, which it said was posted on, then soon censored from, Stormfront. Several people sent responses to the petition, including Tsun, who issued a public demand that NA "see to it that Chester Doles gets what he needs." Letters were posted at VNN. The subject was discussed on "The Paul Gellar Show," a live radio call-in talk show hosted by an NA member who supports the drama, controversy, and conversation roused by Bill White. Overthrow then reported that, in response to all of this, the NA would address the rumors, questions, and allegations on its weekly National Alliance live call-in radio show (not to be confused with its ADV broadcast) along with their guest, Teresa Doles. The show, hosted solo by NA Membership Coordinator Dave Pringle, aired Thursday, June 12th, on the Turner Radio Network. And what a disappointing and embarrassing show it was. Others have already commented on the show and covered a myriad of problems raised by it. For example, others have taken issue with Pringle's initial lacerating attacks on VNN, and then his clumsy backtracking when he remembered later in the show that in addition to saving face for NA, he had the secondary task of encouraging listeners to contribute to the VNN Goy Genius Challenge. The Vonbluvens Show, too, devoted an entire episode to discussing Pringle's train wreck, punctuating their commentary with telling audio clips from it. But amidst all the commentary there are a couple key points that have yet to be made. First, it is critical to understand that the NA HQ is not the same as NA membership. Individual NA members pay for all of their own activism. They have given much to the Doles family. And they also give dues -- a minimum of $10 per month to NA HQ. Profits from NA HQ book sales and Resistance Records merchandise is all part of NA HQ, not individual members or local units. The single, primary issue at hand is: Why is the National Alliance HQ doing so little to help get the Doles the $50,000 they need? If dues and member support do not in part go toward this, what do they go toward? No one was taking issue with the support given by individual members. No one ever doubted that NA members -- even individuals in NA's leadership -- were being kind to Mrs. Doles, offering her shoulders to cry on, moral support, and even donating money out of their small paychecks. None of that is the issue raised by the petition, NA critics, or concerned members. It breaks down like this: What does Doles need? Money. Who is in the best position to generate it at the moment? VNN, via the Goy Genius Challenge. Is NA (the organization, not individual members) giving it? No. Is NA publicizing the best way to raise it (i.e., Goy Challenge)? No. Is NA using their homepage to direct people to the Goy Challenge donation page? No. Is NA encouraging listeners to give to it during their ADV broadcast - the way they encouraged readers to bid for a portrait? No. Is NA doing all it could and should be doing to help the Doles family? Based on this, the answer is clearly no. Why not? This is what we want to know. If there is a reason for NA HQ limiting its support the way it has, TELL US WHAT THAT REASON IS. If there is no reason, then admit it and GET WITH THE PROGRAM. What does Dave Pringle, on behalf of the National Alliance HQ, offer up in response? Most of the show is devoted to pathologizing Overthrow editor Bill White in a manner worthy of Frankfurt School communists. In the course of the hour-long program we are informed that Bill White: --is "a troglodyte" --is "a lump of coal" --has "a 3rd-grade-level mastery of the English language"; "half his things are misspelled"; "he always quotes people incorrectly"; and he proliferates "mostly wrong misinformation." --"does not care about anyone or what they think" --unjustly published something on his site "suggesting NA was letting one of its own [i.e., Chester Doles and his family] hang." --unjustly published on his site "a petition [perhaps the same document as above] that was posted on, and subsequently censored from, Stormfront." --"deserves a Louisville Slugger." --called "Kevin Alfred Strom's wife a c*nt 'on the air'" [Unclear what this means. Does Bill White have a radio show?]; is "not only unmanly" for doing so, "but deserves to be shot." --is "pathological" --is "actively trying to destroy the Doles family and, by the way, actively trying to destroy the NA." --"should be chained to the back of a truck and dragged, like James Byrd." --is maliciously "shooting at NA from the back." --"ought to befired" because he cannot attack the NA as effectively if he doesn't have a job. OK, great. Bill White is evil incarnate. Let's concede that for the sake of argument. Does that mean the NA HQ has actually donated a significant sum of money? That it intends to? Or is it all completely irrelevant to answering: Why the hell is the National Alliance HQ doing almost nothing to help Doles get the $50K he needs? And, if they are doing more than it seems, WHAT ARE THEY DOING? If our dues are not used for this, WHAT ARE OUR DUES USED FOR? Dave Pringle, incensed that the NA's support for Doles and use of member dues are being questioned, tells us: --He "personally drove to Georgia to check on the welfare of Ms. Doles and the children" on his own dollar. --He personally "is spending himself into bankruptcy, along with the rest of NA leadership." --"No dues-payer dollars go toward either the NA or Resistance radio shows; they are funded by the Anchorage and Sacramento units" respectively. All of this is irrelevant. If anything, it raises more questions: If dues money not going to Doles also isn't going to the NA or Resistance radio shows, or to NA leadership activism costs (why else would they be "spending themselves into bankruptcy"?) WHAT ARE DUES USED FOR? And still the question remains: Why the hell is the National Alliance HQ doing almost nothing to help Doles get the money he needs? Over and over again throughout the show, Pringle pretends to address the relevant issues, only to then spin them off in some totally irrelevant direction. This is especially true during his exchange with Teresa Doles. For instance, with Mrs. Doles on the line, Pringle reads from the petition posted on White's site: "The NA refuses to provide funds directly for the support and defense of Georgia Regional Coordinator and comrade, Chester Doles, due to so-called 'legal concerns'." He stops there and says, "Now, I can tell you that right there...is a...[pauses: it's obvious he wants to say "lie" but can't]...umm...they might not have broken the bank, but they gave a thousand dollars already...umm...Teresa, you received a thousand?" Mrs. Doles: Yes, I did. Pringle stammers, then says, "So...so there's the first and ... ya know, I mean, we might be able to send more later, ya know...I-I-I've given some money, as much as I can. Other people in Alaska have. Teresa, how much of the money you've received has come from NA members?" Mrs. Doles: 80 to 90% of it has come from NA members themselves, especially the New Jersey unit. Pringle continues to read from the petition: "NA Chairman, Erich Gliebe, has advised Teresa Doles, Chester's wife, that the Alliance is unable to directly assist the father of 11 with his legal defense fund. Gliebe told Mrs. Doles that "lawyers" had advised him against the NA sending a check to help this family at their darkest moment." Pringle asks Teresa, "Is that true or false? Go ahead and answer me honestly." Teresa: Umm....that's, that's not totally true.... I was questioned by a few people, I'm not sure that it came directly from Mr. Gliebe or who it came from. But I've been questioned about a lot of different things. Umm... knowing who to trust and not to trust, ya know, I try to watch what I say and who I say it to. So that is not exactly true. Uhhhhm, WHAT? I didn't quite get the answer to that "true or false" question, did you? It's "not exactly true." Is it kind of true? And what does Mrs. Doles being "questioned by a few people" about "a lot of things" have to do with whether Gliebe told her lawyers recommended against the NA directly assisting Chester's legal fund? And what exactly is the "it" she's saying she is "not sure" came "directly from Mr. Gliebe or who 'it' came from"? By "it" does she mean exactly what the petition alleged, namely that lawyers had advised against the NA helping fund Doles's legal defense? Regardless of who told what to Mrs. Doles, the question remains: Did lawyers advise the NA against directly assisting Doles's legal defense fund or not? Pringle isn't telling. And Mrs. Doles sounds like she is desperately struggling to avoid the question. My guess is that, had she felt free to speak candidly, Mrs. Doles would have said: "I'm not sure if it was Mr. Gliebe or someone else, but, yes, I've been told that lawyers advised the NA to not directly contribute to the $50k needed to save my husband." That guess could be wrong, but that's what it sounded like to me. Either way, what does NA leadership think it gains by having Mrs. Doles deny that NA told her it was legally advised not to directly assist the legal defense fund? It may serve their case against the credibility of anything published by Overthrow. But it most certainly underscores the claim that the National Alliance HQ has financially abandoned Chester Doles. The denial begs the listener to say, "Ok, NA, we believe you! Your lawyers did not advise you to refrain from directly assisting the Doles legal fund, you're voluntarily choosing not to assist it!" Is that supposed to be a less sh*tty answer? Umm...uh...well.... Or are we all supposed to be so focused on the treacherous malevolence of Overthrow to realize the implications here? Umm...uh...well.... T-T-Today, Junior! What's the f*cking deal? Listening to this stuff is like listening to the Jews at 60 Minutes rub their chin and ask in total seriousness, did Bush exaggerate the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction? NA leadership prides itself on NA membership being the "cream of the crop" and then sends Dave Pringle to insult our intelligence with this spinjob. Truly shameful. Whatever truth lurks behind this ludicrous menagerie of self-interested spin and deceit, the brute fact is, at the time funds of the Goy Challenge were first counted, $3800 were received. This means even if National Alliance HQ had donated every penny -- which they did not -- the grand sum of their financial assistance, including the $1000 they gave Teresa early on, is less than $5000 bucks toward the $50,000 she needs. Instead, the reality is the National Alliance HQ contributed NOTHING to this Goy Challenge initial sum, and Resistance Records forwarded -- didn't write, but merely forwarded -- a check for $50 that was sent to them. Got that? Nothing. Pringle avoids all of this and instead keeps spinning the yarn: Pringle reads from petition: "Since Doles's arrest, the NA contributions have been, frankly, negligible. Resistance Records has held a raffle on its website for a pair of Resistance Swastika boots they happen to be promoting, which raised about $800 and members from the NA Unit in Utah reportedly raised about $1,500 at a meeting on May 31 for the fund." Then he says, "Uhh, I think the boot number is a little high; I think it was more like $600." However, Pringle then makes clear that several NA members were responsible for putting Teresa Doles in contact with Bob Barr, a lawyer she'd never be able to afford. Pringle: So, here what we have is...is...this is Bill White putting up something that is probably ghostwritten, right? By somebody in another organization that feels like they want to needle the Alliance to death with this stuff. And they are using your plight as a platform. And I just think that is just absolutely disgusting. And I'm sorry it's happening to you. Uhhhhm, WHAT? What exactly was just debunked? The article said Resistance raised some money -- it turned out to be less than quoted in the article -- by raffling a pair of boots, that the Utah unit raised $1500, and suggests NA HQ is not doing all it could for the Doles family. Pringle fires back with, what? This devastating combo: 1) Priding NA individual members for putting the Doles in touch with a high-profile lawyer they could never begin to afford without NA's financial assistance. And, 2) Suggesting the petition is unreliable because the dollar amount details are incorrect. Proof? The NA has done even less financially for the Doles than stated in the petition! Pringle inadvertently -- and apparently unknowingly -- puts himself in the absurd position of defending the National Alliance by arguing that only a troublemaker would complain about NA being cheap and selfish while mistakenly overestimating their contribution by $200! A respectable source, Pringle seems to think, would have been careful to more accurately state just how little NA is doing, as it takes the leadership to task for not doing enough. Am I having paint-fume flashbacks or is that like totally f*cking retarded? Dave Pringle then announces he's giving his next full paycheck -- $750, minus taxes -- to the Goy Challenge. That is quite a sacrifice considering that, according to him, he's already "spending himself bankrupt" working for the National Alliance. But still, horse won't die, and needs more flogging. The question is WHY WON'T THE NA HQ ITSELF -- not only selfless, generous, individual members -- DO MORE THAN IT HAS? NA went out of its way to debunk the only excuse that was given for the negligence (i.e., lawyer advised no direct assistance). If that is not stopping them, what is? Why won't it come clean about what it is or isn't doing and why? Why do we get all of this irrelevant blather and defensive histrionics instead of a simple, clear explanation? WHAT ARE DUES GOING FOR? Not Doles, or the NA or Resistance radio shows. Per Pringle, NA leaders are "spending themselves into bankruptcy," so this must mean dues aren't going to them to cover expenses of activism. What DO they go for? We ask about NA, NA tells us about Bill White. We ask about NA, Na tells us about Tsun. We ask about NA, NA tells us about VNN. We ask about NA, NA tells us anything and everything and nothing about NA. All this stuff about Bill White being a jerk and patting members on the back for all they have done to help the Doles may be true, but even if it is, it's beside the point. After saying goodbye to Teresa Doles, Pringle asks listeners, without a glimmer of irony, "Does it need to be any clearer than that?" Uhhhm, WHAT? Roy Batty 2003-06-18 05:58 | User Profile And we wonder why it's taking so long for whites to get up a "full head of steam". The DOC 2003-06-18 05:59 | User Profile And then there is Alex Linder's letter... These guys are free agents. If you want to hack them, I'll certainly print the letter, but as far as what they do goes, unless I see something that really strikes me, I don't care. But with resources flowing FROM us to you, or at least from me and VNN readers/members to you guys, and to your people, we're sure as hell not going to accept outside control, and we're sure as hell going to demand information about what's going on. But keep in mind that 30 years of that tradition brought in under 2,000 people. That's objective fact any way you cut. We must do better than that, and if you look at the numbers, there's something to these new VNN or Overthrow type approaches. Something there is drawing all kinds of people, and high quality people too, middle class people with brains, money and real talent and guts -- lawyers and writers, important creatures! These are rough, freewheeling all-American types who hate any Authority, let alone ZOG. They're going to run by their own judgment, not turn in their heads, and not be lectured to by any schoolmarm. Accept that and lay out the real facts of the situation, which they will accept and respect. Yeah, you can probably turn Stormfront into "hate Bill White" central or whatever, but he doesn't give a f*ck, it won't stop one person from visiting his site. I truly hope you can realize that there's NO WAY the quality people you want to attract are going to let you and a couple others do all the thinking and strategizing and planning, they have plenty of their own ideas, and the resources and ability to make things happen. And we must have these people working with us - with their heads. Don't let these guys make you angry, if they go too far, I will say something. A couple more points... I've put probably a couple thousand into NA, considering travel and dues and all the rest, and as a member, let alone a journalist, I want to know what the heck is going on there. That's how most members feel. What the f*ck is going on at HQ? Who is on the board? Any jews? How do we know that? Do we take it on trust? Who is really running things at NA? How is the group evolving? Why should I join rather than buy a book or subscribe to the magazine? What do I do if I join? Anything besides writing checks and throwing stuff on people's lawns? All this stuff should be out there and discussed, people WANT to hear all this, but NA is a black box. The paranoia and the attempt to censor any opposing view simply won't fly with the quality people you want to attract, they don't want to follow unquestioningly but to be active, thinking participants. members have legitimate demands to know what is being done with their money, and who is doing it, and what the plan is moving forward. interviewing with the Jews, right after criticizing their media for being biased, makes it look like we say one thing but do another. I think you'd find that NA would be better served by putting out information. A good example: Tim Scott. I learned he was fired through Overthrow. Disappointing. I thought he had just the right attitude and was moving things the right direction. Why is he fired? Who knows? I wouldn't have known he was fired if I relied on NA for info. The command model of dictatorial control and cellish dissemination of information -- well, just won't work under current circumstances, and makes no sense since the NA is legal and aboveground information dispenser, not the IRA. Let some light out from NA, explain what's going on. The way it is, from here, is that NA is the one group in WN that has resources. The more those are kept in-house along with info about operations, the less desire I feel to encourage my readers to support it, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE F*** THEY'RE ACTUALLY SUPPORTING. Why should I funnel people to NA to pay it money to do what, god only knows, when I'm putting out as much as NA is daily, and have the numbers to prove it. - Alex Linder The DOC 2003-06-18 06:08 | User Profile Another thing Kevin doesn't want you all to know is that Mrs. Strom can somehow post a reply to a post of mine at Stormfront BEFORE Stormfront posted it! That's right, and a Moderator at Stormfront wrote me back about it after questioning it. I guess Mrs. Strom doesn't use "Manipulator" as her e-mail tag for nothing does she? And then there is the "Resistance" board which would not post the good Doctors rebuttals, nor Bio. When a Resistance member did it for the good DOC it was deleted and the member, of long standing, barred from the board. I may want a future without Jews, but for sure without the National Alliance. Funny thing, you are NOT going to catch the DOC in a lie. DOC PaleoconAvatar 2003-06-18 06:14 | User Profile Doc, I agree with Strom that for whatever reason (including COINTELPRO) this Doles incident is being milked for all it's worth as a weapon against the NA. NA membership dues pay not only for Internet services (I can't verify the facts in question about the particular message board you cite since I am not in a position to know) but they also pay for weekly radio broadcasts as well as various print media including the National Vanguard magazine. There are likely countless other projects and overhead that I'm unaware of. It is worth pointing out that the NA Membership Handbook specifically gives tips on how to stay out of the clutches of our corrupt legal system, and it also makes it clear that members should not assume that the National Office can help in the event of legal difficulty, either in the form of legal counsel or monetary help. The resources are not available, and I've suggested elsewhere on this board that the System realizes this and is currently taking advantage of this situation. The NA would be quickly bankrupted if the Feds continued bringing up members on easily made, bogus charges and if the NA were then cornered into funding the defense of the targeted members. The public pressure that yourself and Bill White and such are fomenting against the NA is playing right into the System's hands--the goal is to either bleed the NA of its resources, or to bleed the NA of its members who get stirred up by the "Where's the Money For Doles?" propaganda campaign. Sad thing is that even if the NA's detractors succeed in their smear campaign, they'll have won nothing. Few, if any, other "officially unapproved" groups have the resources to legally defend their members, and the System will continue to persecute and imprison dissidents--the PATRIOT Act Part II that's coming down the pike will make it even easier in the future. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but I suspect you've (we've) nowhere to go but down. The DOC 2003-06-18 06:46 | User Profile --"No dues-payer dollars go toward either the NA or Resistance radio shows; they are funded by the Anchorage and Sacramento units" respectively. - Dave Pringle So, according to the National Alliance spokesperson, it didn't, and doesn't, happen. Here is a gratuitous one from VNN cartoonist RaZoR WITH HIS PERMISSION! "I just heard your swan song. I had no idea you were leaving to keep white planet alive and that he (Dicivita) was ready to go down for your freedom of speech. I am now convinced more than ever that the NA is a fed informant infested piece of sht, run by effite, greedy, nadless, twatz who couldn't give a sht about white people. I'm gonna miss you with Von, but I have great respect for your decision. Please continue to expose the NA scumbagz in whatever way you can........Regards.................RaZoR" Quotation marks added. "As long as the end is the death of that 5th column circle jerk known as the NA, I endorse WHATEVER means. Take Care.....RaZ" I could give you dozens more but as they have not given their OK I will respect a source. Another thing Kevin won't tell you is that while he and I were having a "private" phone conversation his wife listened in on the whole thing, by her own admission. After ending our conversation pleasantly and agreeing to work toward some mutual understanding, 15 short minutes later she posted a very derogatory letter on Stormfront completely breaching that attempt at trust. She passed it off as humorous. Read The two long letters above, one by Linder himself, the other by an NA member. Both were posted on VNN You want to keep this going Kevin? I will bury the National Alliance with it's own words. damian 2003-06-18 08:00 | User Profile Originally posted by The DOC@Jun 18 2003, 01:59 * *And then there is Alex Linder's letter... What the f*ck is going on at HQ? Who is on the board? Any jews? How do we know that? Do we take it on trust? Who is really running things at NA? How is the group evolving? Why should I join rather than buy a book or subscribe to the magazine? What do I do if I join? Anything besides writing checks and throwing stuff on people's lawns? All this stuff should be out there and discussed, people WANT to hear all this, but NA is a black box. The paranoia and the attempt to censor any opposing view simply won't fly with the quality people you want to attract, they don't want to follow unquestioningly but to be active, thinking participants. members have legitimate demands to know what is being done with their money, and who is doing it, and what the plan is moving forward. ** Whew, that's quite the letter coming from someone like Alex Linder who has been a member and supporter of NA. My guess is that the NA is going to have to come clean about its operations, invite more people into the decision making fold, and give up some of the old cloistered, secretive ways that existed under Pierce if they hope to survive. Tom Rennick 2003-06-18 08:09 | User Profile [SIZE=3]For Whom The Bells Toll...[/SIZE] *[SIZE=1][color=blue]"Ask not for whom the bells toll...they toll for thee."[/color][/SIZE]*** The bells are indeed tolling, and they are tolling for the National Alliance. For too long, the NA has viewed itself as an invincible organization, unfettered by any belief or sense of duty that it had to answer to its supporters, its members, or to the greater body of white nationalists who have lent them their goodwill. Now that goodwill is evaporating. All over the Internet the bells are tolling, sounding out the failure of the National Alliance to come to the aid of one of their most loyal members, a father of eleven who now faces years behind bars, years imprisoned inside a violent, negroid hell while National Alliance leaders, flush with power and vaults of cash raked in from selling millions of dollars of Neo-Nazi hatecore music, live the genteel life in the rolling countryside of West Virginia. It's been said that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and this is sadly true in regard to the leadership of the National Alliance. They have indeed been corrupted with power, even more so in the wake of Dr. William Pierce's death. Gnawing and tearing at the corpse of Pierce's dream, Erich Gliebe, Kevin Strom, and David Pringle are but jackals driven by the blood-lust of greed - greed to rule over thousands of obedient, unquestioning NA members. But they made one fatal error: ignoring the plight of Chester Doles. Their callous disregard for this loyal NA member, this dedicated husband and family man who gave his very life to the cause of his Race, has sent electrifying shockwaves of disgust and distrust for the sequestered leadership of the National Alliance. Help Chester Doles! Cries, sadly, that Erich Gliebe and Kevin Strom have turned a deaf ear to. That is, until they saw their power slipping away, until they realized in a sudden flash of desparation that NA's members have, unlike them, hearts in which they hold the fate of Chester Doles dear, hearts that neither Gliebe or Strom have...if they ever did. For whom do the bells toll? They toll for thee, Mr. Gliebe. And they toll for thee, Mr. Strom.... [img]http://www.authenticsicily.com/images/ChurchBell.gif[/img] damian 2003-06-18 08:49 | User Profile *Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 18 2003, 04:09 * ** All over the Internet the bells are tolling, sounding out the failure of the National Alliance to come to the aid of one of their most loyal members, a father of eleven who now faces years behind bars ** I don't follow WN politics closely, but that 25k Chester Doles Challenge offered by Goy Genius at VNN and the comparative lack of support he received from NA speaks for itself. I suspect that a lot of NA members are working class folks that feel a loyalty to stand by their own, and I think the NA has dropped the ball on this one. Not that I would have expected them to pony up the full amount of the attorney fees, but what little they have done just doesn't measure up imo. Hell, they did more for that convicted murderer Hendrik Moebus than they are doing for Chester Doles, an NA member with a large family to support. I'll have to agree with Doc and T Rennick on this one, the NA screwed up big time with this one and it's going to cost them more $$ in the long run than if they had kicked in 10k or 25k at the beginning of all this. The DOC 2003-06-18 13:20 | User Profile Official NA HQ cash outlays. Hendrik Moebus 42K : Chester Doles 1k But then Doles didn't have any ability to land the German CD market for Resistance Records either did he? DOC damian 2003-06-18 14:13 | User Profile *Originally posted by Leland Gaunt@Jun 18 2003, 06:07 * ** At least the Jews stick together. Thats about the only thing we should learn from them. But since we are all stupid and individualist Goys and are on an ego-trip, that will of course never happen!** Precisely my point. The Jews look after their own, the NA doesn't. As far as stupid and individualist Goys who are on an ego-trip, I think that an apt description of some of the NA leadership. Tom Rennick 2003-06-18 15:01 | User Profile Night of the Long Knives On 30th June 1934 Hitler radioed the codeword 'Kolibri' (Hummingbird) to Berlin. This was the signal for the SS to smash the SA in the events known as the 'Night of the Long Knives'. Rohm was killed and other members of the SA were rounded up by the SS and driven to a nearby prison. These men were later butchered by the SS. Thus those perceived as disloyal to the Nazi cause were elimated, and Hitler moved on to greater heights and glory. Today, in June of 2003, the national socialists of America's National Alliance are faced with similar disloyalty - disloyalty to Chester Doles, a generous, caring husband, father, and white patriot who has been betrayed by the leadership of that corrupt organization. Now Doles rots in a prison cell, headed for long years of confinement in a life-threatening, negro-infested hell where at any moment a prison-made shiv might plunge into his back, or the sweaty loins from a gang of negro rapists might plunge into his ass. This is what Chester Doles faces. But it is not what Erich Gliebe or Kevin Strom faces. No. They are safe and sound, enscounced in their hilltop retreat, two lords of white nationalism surveying all that they command. Surrounded by servile sycophants hoping to be thrown an occasional crumb of recognition, Gliebe and Strom are far too busy making money hand over fist selling Neo-Nazi hatecore "music" such as Racially-Motivated Violence, Filled With Rage, and Murder Squad to be too concerned about someone named Lester....er....Chester....uhhh....what's his name? It doesn't matter to Gliebe or Strom. All that matters to them is POWER..... The DOC 2003-06-18 15:02 | User Profile Yes, Mr. Gaunt, we are at war. So let's mobilize for war. Total war demands total commitment. We might, and I say might, be in the same trench. As a veteran soldier I assure you that I want to know, without a doubt, that the guy in that trench beside me isn't going to cut and run. France's Foreign Legion does not leave even it's dead on the field of battle. Neither do the US Marines. I also want to be able to have faith in the leaders up the chain of command. Do you know what REMF means? Ask a vet. DOC Uncle John 2003-06-18 15:34 | User Profile I'm a former NA member. I posted the following comment on another forum, but think that it is appropriate for this discussion as well. The NA is constantly in trouble because of needless secrecy. Everything the NA does is an open book to the IRS and any other Federal agency that gives a flip, so what is the big secret that can't be revealed to the members? Alex Linder has rightly called the NA a 'black box', in which all input disappears, with the only apparant yield being the weekly Internet broadcast. Thousands of people have passed through the NA over the years, but the membership remains small because the NA doesn't appear to 'do' anything, except absorb dues. I don't blame the NA for lack of overall white nationalist activity, because, through most of its history, there was no social pressure for any orgainization to work with. Now that things are starting to break up and go our way, it is obvious that the NA will remain on the fringes unless it abandons its culture of secrecy and makes significant structural/organizational changes. Tom Rennick 2003-06-18 17:35 | User Profile [SIZE=3]Wastin' Away In Margaritaville....[/SIZE] Uncle John said: [color=blue]"...the membership remains small because the NA doesn't appear to 'do' anything..."[/color] Well, they do go from door to door in the dark of the night passing out flyers by the jillions. Ain't that something? National Alliance member rests and shows off his "tats" after going door to door and passing out 25 flyers. [img]http://www.resistance.com/tattoos/myback.JPG[/img] [color=gray]image taken from a National Alliance-owned website[/color] heritagelost 2003-06-18 17:39 | User Profile You guys spend too much time worrying about this stupid sh*t! Who gives a sh*t what any of these people think. Find something better to do than gossip. If you don't like the National Alliance, don't join. If you don't like Bill White don't go to his site. Enough said. Kevin Alfred Strom 2003-06-19 00:37 | User Profile Most of the support for Mr. Doles -- 80 to 90 per cent., according to Mrs. Doles -- has come from the National Alliance and its local Units. One true complaint is that communications aren't always answered in a timely manner. The Alliance is understaffed, and the staff is overworked, and some things tend to slide on occasion. But the 'black box of secrecy' allegation is far from the mark. I answer dozens of member and supporter communications every week. The complainers should visit a few more local Alliance functions if they can. Many units hold monthly meetings, literature distributions (yes, they're often a community affair), Euro-festivals, et cetera. Come on out, meet the local members in person, and savor the "secrecy"! [img]http://nationalvanguard.com/Templates/11.jpg[/img] (photo: recent secret hate meeting of the National Alliance) With my best, Kevin. [url=http://www.kevin-strom.com/]http://www.kevin-strom.com/[/url] [url=http://www.revilo-oliver.com/]http://www.revilo-oliver.com/[/url] RangeMe 2003-06-19 02:49 | User Profile The NA wasnt the only target of the last VB/DOC show. David Duke and Hal Turner were also attacked. The biggest grief doc has, from what I can tell listening to him, is that he is upset that everyone doesnt stop what they are doing and contact him and debate with him. He doesnt like to be ignored. EGO's Franco 2003-06-19 03:25 | User Profile Hey, Rennykins -- I noticed, while skimming your "pro-White" website, that you list Klan groups as being basically no-good outfits. Right? If I'm wrong, then my bad, and I apologize for ending up at the wrong website. But, you fail to mention Robb's Klan group -- the biggest. Does that mean that SOME Klan groups meet with your appwooval? [sp]. Or did you just forget ol' Robb? gasp [holding my breath waiting for your answer]. The DOC 2003-06-19 13:30 | User Profile David Duke was NOT attacked. He plight was used to highlight the question. Why does Hal bilk his listeners and get away with it? I have every respect for David Duke. Buy the way, my gripe with Gliebe has been resolved. He requested a pow wow, not me, from the beginning. At this point I stand behind what Gliebe is trying to do with the NA. I do not stand behind those manipulators in senior NA positions that have used this situation to plot behind the scenes. I think you will find Kevin Alfred Strom reined in a bit for disclosing information to his wife who is not even an NA member. According to Gliebe anyway. She, "Mrs. Strom," has been the largest source of friction in this whole mess. According to Gliebe KAS "Honor Bright" (sic) is not an official spokesperson for NA anyway and all future contacts for info will go directly to Gliebe. Gliebe and I had a most pleasant and productive conversation last night. If Gliebe follows though with his current plans I wholeheartedly support him and HIS version of the NA. DOC PS Hal Turner will always be attacked by me wherever I am until he comes clean on the lies he tells his listeners. Hal Turner is a Fraud and guilty of Criminal Fraud. Why does the Justice department go after Duke, and not Hal, for the same thing? Can we say "Informant?" I knew you could, if you could add... RangeMe 2003-06-19 15:40 | User Profile So you got the attention and information you wanted and your backing off your slander and disinformation campaign. I think most people will see you for what you are. Your mental status is also pretty clear. You negatively fixate on one person for a short period, while treating everyone else like saints. Then you move on and treat someone else negatively for a short while and treat everyone else including the original target like a saint. How many times did you switch targets and facts? How much did you contribute? Will we ever find out that fact? Attacking someone's wife, thats a new low. The DOC 2003-06-19 16:38 | User Profile There was no slander. There was no disinformation. Everything we on the VONBLUVENS SHOW said about the NA was in fact true. We have, after my conversation with Gliebe, come to understand why some of the things both done, and NOT done, by the NA were and are necessary. Truth isn't slander. As for "attacking" Mrs. Strom? She brought it on herself through her own actions as the ORIGINATOR of much of the disinformation being put out in a misguided, but admirably loyal, stance in defending the NA. If she is going to play in the sandbox and toss sand, she is, sooner or later going to get some in the face too. Again NOTHING I've said in print about the NA is untrue and it should be obvious in that Gliebe, the head of the NA, will not and has not, refuted any of it. Mr. Strom was not aware of the financial relationship between NA and White Planet, or so I was told. Actually that financial relationship is bigger than I first discovered. Erich Gliebe told me he regrets any threats made to shut us down through White Planet. That they will NOT be carried out, and that NA will continue their relationship with White Planet. DOC will, and DOES get his facts together before going public. It would be in Mr. Strom's best interest, and that of the NA, to do the same. "Honor Bright" (sic) is just a bit tarnished these days. That being said I still believe Kevin Alfred Strom is the BEST voice for the White Race today. I do not have to agree with him, nor he agree with me. A do admire his show and his efforts. No, I do not pick a target and back off later, unless the reason for picking that target CHANGES. Erich Gliebe, to my mind an Honorable man, pointed out very truthfully to me both flaws and strengths of the NA and I stand behind what he TOLD me. If it is in fact the truth and the way the NA is progressing, I back the NA. Much of what he told me is secret and will remain so. Why am I "evil" if I have told nothing but the truth, as distasteful as it may be? I have changed my mind based on my belief in what I see, hopefully correctly, the integrity of Gliebe and his plans to correct internal problems in the NA. A man should change his mind for good cause. Only a fool keeps the same position in face of new knowledge. But, then again, maybe the world is still flat? Time, and actions, will tell. DOC Tom Rennick 2003-06-19 17:52 | User Profile [SIZE=3][color=dark green]Thomas Robb & the KKK[/color][/SIZE] [color=purple]"Hey, Rennykins --I noticed, while skimming your "pro-White" website, that you list Klan groups as being basically no-good outfits. Right? If I'm wrong, then my bad, and I apologize for ending up at the wrong website. But, you fail to mention Robb's Klan group -- the biggest. Does that mean that SOME Klan groups meet with your appwooval? [sp]. Or did you just forget ol' Robb?[/color] Actually, Fwanco, I owe you one. I did forget to include Thomas Robb's Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. But really, with all these various KKK outfits running around on the Internet like a bunch of white hooded wackos in search of some nig to lynch, can you really blame me for missing one of them? In fact, I thought I had listed Robb's group, until you pointed out he was missing from my infamous line up. I have since corrected that error. As for the KKK in general, it's not their beliefs that I object to at all. In fact, from a purely ideological standpoint, I much prefer the KKK to either the skinheads or the Neo-Nazis. Their hearts are in the right place, it's just their methods that I oppose. I simply don't believe that wearing white sheets and hoods or burning crosses helps to further the cause of white nationalism. Then again, I'm sure that even the National Alliance would agree with me on that. Maybe one day you'll see the light, Fwanco. Maybe you'll come to see that it's not the racial beliefs I disapprove of when it comes to Neo-Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK - but their counter-productive use of these kinds of symbols to promote our struggling cause: [img]http://www.bernardomahoney.com/forthcb/ootdie/images/selkkk.jpg[/img] triskelion 2003-06-19 20:51 | User Profile I read with amusement the quotes " As for the KKK in general, it's not their beliefs that I object to at all..." and "Maybe you'll come to see that it's not the racial beliefs I disapprove of when it comes to Neo-Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK..." coming from someone that thinks, jews, Arabs, Pakistanis and God(s) knows whom else are White and promotes a group that supports miscegenation, slanders various Occidental ethic groups in the states and supports the Randian cult. Of course it makes little sense to expect consistency from someone that hates and totally condemns the NA as extremists unable to appeal to the middle class while he supports someone like Blevins in attacking the NA for failure to support a man TR clearly would brand a "tattooed subhuman freak" (or something similar) along with falsely portraying those that disagree with him as being supportive of the stereotypes he obsesses over so much. Certainly, the costume fetishism so a part of the Klan scene is silly and counter productive as is the use of NSDAP iconography in a former nation with no historical affinity for such things as I have pointed out before. As for the racial beliefs of American "nazis and klan" types I have noted that such groups often take the indefeasible position that anyone not Nordic is not white along with advocating racial violence, imperialism and even genocide. In the end, I see very little to commend with most racial groups in the states and little indication that a positive, life affirming and genuine racialism will be given real support. RangeMe 2003-06-19 23:27 | User Profile It was painfully obvious to anyone with a brain who was funding the 25k matching dollars. How much did you contribute doc? Franco 2003-06-20 02:53 | User Profile Paging Golfball, paging Golfball! Renny has something to say about... [I'll go fetch him]... Tom Rennick 2003-06-20 03:15 | User Profile [SIZE=3]Triskelion:Take A Course In Anthropology[/SIZE] Triskelion said: > [color=red]"... coming from someone that thinks, jews, Arabs, Pakistanis and God(s) knows whom else are White..."[/color] Mr. Triskelion: It is difficult to converse with someone who lacks even a basic understanding of anthropology and the different racial classifications. Were you more conversant in this subject, you would know that Jews, Arabs, Pakistanis, and similiar peoples are all classifed - from an anthropological standpoint - as Caucasoids. Now, despite your ignorance of the subject, my remarks at no time inferred or implied that such people as I mentioned were considered by me to be the equivalent of European whites - merely that they were considered genetically "Caucasian". So, just to make myself perfectly clear, I do not include anyone but European whites to be truly "white" - in the strictest white nationalist sense. In regard to my comments about Jews, there are those Jews who are very obviously semitic in appearance, and then those "Jews" who are largely, but not completely European white. What you fail to understand (along with so much else) is that white nationalists do not have a consensus on exactly what admixture of non-white blood excludes one from being classified as "white". Some advocate 100% "pure Aryan" while others would not object to calling someone "white" who had somewhere between 1/16 to 1/8 non-white blood - as in the case of native American Indian blood. But, being as it is that you are not attempting to understand or address these vitally important questions that impede white nationalism, I am sure you have not contemplated these matters. I have, however, and that is why it strikes me as irrational when you have a great many Stormfront members perfectly willing to accept as "white" those individuals who possess 1/16 to 1/8 non-white blood IF it is mongoloid blood, but not willing to accept as "white" someone with an equal amount of semitic (caucasoid) blood. Therefore, let me reiterate: I do not accept Jews per se as "white" - that is, those that are obviously semitic in appearance, anymore than I would accept as "white" a man who was mostly white, but had obvious native American Indian traits. My objective is to more clearly define what is white. Towards that goal, David Lane, who coined the famous phrase, "We Must Secure the Existence of Our People and a Future For White Children", defined whom he thought should be classified as "white" in his equally famous essay: [url=http://www.pyramidprophecy.net/focuswhoiswhite.htm]WHO IS WHITE[/url] Thus, based upon Mr. Lane's criteria, many Jews would easily meet his qualifications, as outlined in "Who Is White?" So, are you going to denounce me as a "Jew" for stating what Mr. Lane believed - a man, I should point out, who is highly respected among many Jew-hating white nationalists in general. Well, no matter. All that's important is to realize that white nationalism is quite vague when it comes to these matters, and unless the best minds now serving our Cause realize this, our progress will continue to be slow. Triskelion said: > [color=red]"...and supports the Randian cult." [/color] Mr. Triskelion: You have moved from showcasing your ignorance to outright lies. Nothing I have said in regard to Ayn Rand supports your accusation, and to prove that is so I invite you to quote anything I've said which would prove otherwise. In truth, I merely stated that Ayn Rand believed (as many before her did) that a property owner had every right to refuse service, sell to, or rent his goods and/or services to negroes, gays, Jews, whomever - if he so wished. Finally, this missive really isn't directed at you, since you are nothing more than a brainwashed VNN lemming. But there is always the hope that other individuals will pass this way, and discover for themselves that clean, rational minds not warped by Neo-Nazi fantasy role playing, cross-burning, or rabid Jew-hating to the exclusion of all common sense do yet exist in this world - of which I am one. Tom Franco 2003-06-20 03:36 | User Profile You are splitting hairs, Rennster. Jews rarely out-marry -- contrary to the Jewish lies. Therefore, there are not that many 1/16 or 1/8 or 1/4 Jews around. We can see thru your cleverness, Rennick. Find a tiny issue and seize on it....clever. JEWS ARE NOT WHITE. A White "appearance" means nothing. Zip! Look at Michael Jackson -- he looks White. Is he? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha....give it up, Renny. triskelion 2003-06-20 04:43 | User Profile Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 20 2003, 03:15 * Triskelion said: > *  "... coming from someone that thinks, jews, Arabs, Pakistanis and God(s) knows whom else are White..." ** Mr. Triskelion: It is difficult to converse with someone who lacks even a basic understanding of anthropology and the different racial classifications. Were you more conversant in this subject, you would know that Jews, Arabs, Pakistanis, and similiar peoples are all classifed - from an anthropological standpoint - as Caucasoids. Now, despite your ignorance of the subject, my remarks at no time inferred or implied that such people as I mentioned were considered by me to be the equivalent of European whites - merely that they were considered genetically "Caucasian". So, just to make myself perfectly clear, I do not include anyone but European whites to be truly "white" - in the strictest white nationalist sense. ** Setting aside your typically abusive and groundless blather I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are something other then what you have led me to believe you are. In light of your comment above I will assume that our dispute in this area is fueled in part by a matter of terminology. I further will assume that I mistakenly assumed that you were claiming that all Caucasoids were racially European. I will also take at face value your statement "So, just to make myself perfectly clear, I do not include anyone but European whites to be truly "white" - in the strictest white nationalist sense." As a result, I will hope that you would then agree as a White Nationalist that Jews, Arabs, Pakistanis and similar peoples should not be accepted as members of Occidental nations. If you can endorse such a statement then I will consider a major element of our feud settled and stand corrected as misrepresenting your views just as you have repeatedly misrepresented mine. ** In regard to my comments about Jews, there are those Jews who are very obviously semitic in appearance, and then those "Jews" who are largely, but not completely European white. ** I and others have conclusively refuted th notion that Jews are genetic Europeans with a mountain of research that you have failed to make even the slightest attempt to challenge outside of grossly misreading a portion of a single sentence of lone abstract sited in two different threads. ** What you fail to understand (along with so much else) is that white nationalists do not have a consensus on exactly what admixture of non-white blood excludes one from being classified as "white". ** In point of fact I am fully aware of the issue and I have briefly addressed the matter in threads you have posted to. That you failed to note as much simply indicates that for what ever the reason a pattern of argumentation that when combined with your gross misrepresentation of what I have said has led me to view you as an enemy. ** Some advocate 100% "pure Aryan" while others would not object to calling someone "white" who had somewhere between 1/16 to 1/8 non-white blood - as in the case of native American Indian blood. But, being as it is that you are not attempting to understand or address these vitally important questions that impede white nationalism, I am sure you have not contemplated these matters. ** Being that you have clearly ignored what I written on the subject you prove your self dishonest. **  I have, however, and that is why it strikes me as irrational when you have a great many Stormfront members.. ** I have never been active on Storm Front and I have been rather critical of that forum which you would know if you bothered to ask or read my comments on the matter within the recent thread on this forum. ** ...perfectly willing to accept as "white" those individuals who possess 1/16 to 1/8 non-white blood IF it is mongoloid blood, but not willing to accept as "white" someone with an equal amount of semitic (caucasoid) blood. ** If you would simply stop implying that I have said things that I have not or actively lying about my views I would be able to look at you as something other then a cretin. ** Therefore, let me reiterate: I do not accept Jews per se as "white" - that is, those that are obviously semitic in appearance, anymore than I would accept as "white" a man who was mostly white, but had obvious native American Indian traits. My objective is to more clearly define what is white. ** I am willing to accept the statement above at face value. I am also willing to state that as a result of the comment above that I will revise my view of you on the matter along with the comments that stem from it provided that you will also agree that jews (within the context you mention above) should not be members of Occidental societies or organizations dedicated to the advancement of White Nationalism. ** Towards that goal, David Lane, who coined the famous phrase, "We Must Secure the Existence of Our People and a Future For White Children", defined whom he thought should be classified as "white" in his equally famous essay: WHO IS WHITE Thus, based upon Mr. Lane's criteria, many Jews would easily meet his qualifications, as outlined in "Who Is White?" So, are you going to denounce me as a "Jew" for stating what Mr. Lane believed - a man, I should point out, who is highly respected among many Jew-hating white nationalists in general. ** I have not read any thing my Mr. Lane so I will not comment upon him. As to Jew hating I will say that as a racialist I reject the notion of hating other races or attempting to destroy them. Instead I embrace separatism and anti-imperialism as I have always done which is apparent to anyone that has read much of what I have posted here or anywhere else. ** Well, no matter. All that's important is to realize that white nationalism is quite vague when it comes to these matters, and unless the best minds now serving our Cause realize this, our progress will continue to be slow. ** Insofar as the largely dysfunctional American scene goes I agree. ** Triskelion said: >   "...and supports the Randian cult." Mr. Triskelion: You have moved from showcasing your ignorance to outright lies. Nothing I have said in regard to Ayn Rand supports your accusation, and to prove that is so I invite you to quote anything I've said which would prove otherwise. In truth, I merely stated that Ayn Rand believed (as many before her did) that a property owner had every right to refuse service, sell to, or rent his goods and/or services to negroes, gays, Jews, whomever - if he so wished. ** I will be happy to review your posts and site for said content. If I can't find it I will readily admit that being wrong and tender a full retraction for the quote above. ** Finally, this missive really isn't directed at you, since you are nothing more than a brainwashed VNN lemming. ** Again you demonstrate exactly why I have had such animosity towards you. I have issued plenty of complaints about VNN here and else where and you even quoted one such post. As a result, you have proven yourself to be dishonest and abusive towards someone that is radically different then those that normally voice support for VNN. It was exactly this kind of willful distortion of my views and those of others that has resulted in my rejection of you as anything other then a faux racialist. I will of course admit that my anger at your truculent and insulting disposition has caused me to commit the same errors from time to time and I will of course retract said comments regardless of your failure to do like wise when such instances are made know to me. golfball 2003-06-20 19:48 | User Profile *Originally posted by Franco@Jun 19 2003, 21:53 * ** Paging Golfball, paging Golfball! Renny has something to say about... [I'll go fetch him]... ** Hello..... :P Checking out the good news. :hyp: golfball 2003-06-20 20:11 | User Profile *Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 13 2003, 09:48 * ** Well, someone like me (who is obviously a Jew, of course) doesn't need a point. ** That point is obvious... golfball 2003-06-20 20:39 | User Profile Jewish or no, Mr Rennick understands.... Originally posted by Tom Rennick ....Actually, Fwanco, I owe you one. I did forget to include Thomas Robb's Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. But really, with all these various KKK outfits running around on the Internet like a bunch of white hooded wackos in search of some nig to lynch, can you really blame me for missing one of them?**** Somebody has been watching too much of the History channel lately..... :rolleyes: Didn't we see who controls the issues related to the dispensation of American History through the medium of television? Jews?.... :rolleyes: However, this is telling.... As for the KKK in general, it's not their beliefs that I object to at all. In fact, from a purely ideological standpoint, I much prefer the KKK to either the skinheads or the Neo-Nazis. **** Why? Because.... Their hearts are in the right place, it's just their methods that I oppose.....**** As do all Jews and their kind. Any method that brings together Whites in a fashion that is detrimental to Jewery is seen as threatening to Jews, therefore is dealt with in different fashions. Since The Knights are Constitutionally Protected, they are a non-target, yet Jewish envy leads to desire to "overcome" something that is non beneficial to Jews and their kind. Some things are not easily done. Why do Jews feel threatened, when the truth is known? Because truth can be ugly sometimes. The Knights do not advocate violence, yet believes in self protection. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan are active in reaching out to others that are interested in Jesus Christ and the truth about our national racial heritage. I simply don't believe that wearing white sheets and hoods or burning crosses helps to further the cause of white nationalism. Then again, I'm sure that even the National Alliance would agree with me on that.**** The above statement is an obvious attempt at pointing the finger at others, while stating similar beliefs,.... quaint. :rolleyes: Tom Rennick 2003-06-20 23:50 | User Profile [font=Arial][SIZE=3]Jesus H. Christ! - Another Stormfronter Just Blew In Through the Front Door...![/font][/SIZE] I remember "Golfball" from my brief sojourn over at Stormfront, just before I was permanently banned by that psychopathic weirdo/moderator known as "Muad Dib". Later, while licking my wounds, I happened to come across a photograph of "Muad Dib" (standing next to his nibs, Don Black) and thinking: "Man, that dude looks just like a frigging Jew! After that, my wounds didn't hurt so much anymore. I mean, I got the last laugh, afterall. Here's this guy, this insane little twerp going by the name of "Muad Dib" frothing constantly about "Jews" - and then it turns out he LOOKS like one!!! Okay, I've calmed down. I'm in control again. My hands have stopped clutching at someone's imaginary throat. You see, I just get a little bit edgy whenever those freedom-of-speech-hating sieg heilers over at Stormfront intrude upon my consciousness.... Which brings me back to "Golfball". Now, I don't know diddly-squat about "Golfball", other than he's head-over-heels-loopy-in-love with the KKK. Well, God forbid that I should try to interfere with any man who's sweet on those white hooded guys. Takes all kinds, ya know. Love is blind, all of that crap. True as well with white nationalist organizations, I would imagine. All I can say is what I've always said, as a "troll", as a "Jew", as an "FBI informant", as "Harold Covington", as "Bill White", as "Ward Kendall", and as all the other endearing things I've been called, including this: :dung: So I'll say it again, for the pleasure of "Golfball": The Ku Klux Klan is for weenies. That's right, folks. For weenies. You see, nobody but nobody likes 'em but other Kluxxers, a few bald-headed skinheads, a Neo-Nazi here and there, and Donny Black maybe. That's why these boyz in da hood need to listen up - "Git yor ass outta them white bedouin rags you wear! Dis ain't some A-rab cuntry! Dis heah shee-at has gots ta stop cuz it doan work wif our white-ass middle class homies, mo'fo'! Who knows, maybe they'll relate to that negro jive talk, considering that every other attempt at reasoning has failed. Now, onward to the photos! 1: Here we see a strong, disciplined negro man marching alongside a rag-tag line of Kluxxers, so the crowd of whites won't whup their asses.[img]http://www.kukluxklan.net/3.jpg[/img] 2: Mardi Gras parade? Nah - just a bunch of Kluxxer-Klowns (get a load of those wild clothes they're wearing!) marching along making themselves look like what they are - a bunch of golfballs - er - goofballs.[img]http://www.kukluxklan.net/b.jpg[/img] 3: Ooooooo! This one is spooooo-ky! But gee whiz, Johnny, how is this hocus-pocus bullshit gonna save the white race?[img]http://www.kukluxklan.net/7.jpg[/img] 4: Ahoy, maties! Land ho! Shiver me timbers! Arrrrgh! Well, what did you expect me to think after seeing those Kluxxers up there with that thar pirate flag? Makes perfect sense, ya know - that pirate flag. It's helping Kluxxers convince white middle class Americans to....er....to...uhhhh....gee...what the fck is* that stupid pirate flag for, guys? Hey! Maybe "Golfball" can tell us![img]http://www.kukluxklan.net/a.jpg[/img] Franco 2003-06-21 00:12 | User Profile All -- any doubt that I had about Rennick being here at OD for 'other reasons' has just been erased from my mind by this quote: ** Rennick wrote: I happened to come across a photograph of "Muad Dib" (standing next to his nibs, Don Black) and thinking: "Man, that dude looks just like a frigging Jew! After that, my wounds didn't hurt so much anymore. I mean, I got the last laugh, afterall. Here's this guy, this insane little twerp going by the name of "Muad Dib" frothing constantly about "Jews" - and then it turns out he LOOKS like one!!! ** Nothing else needs to be said. Bye, Mr. Rennick. I will no longer respond to your posts. PaleoconAvatar 2003-06-21 01:32 | User Profile Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 20 2003, 19:50 * ** #4: Ahoy, maties! Land ho! Shiver me timbers! Arrrrgh! Well, what did you expect me to think after seeing those Kluxxers up there with that thar pirate flag? Makes perfect sense, ya know - that pirate flag. It's helping Kluxxers convince white middle class Americans to....er....to...uhhhh....gee...what the f is that stupid pirate flag for, guys? ** :lol: Rennick, I have to give you credit...I've seen a lot of characters come around these here cyber parts, but I think that at times you do know how to make an entertaining post. Isn't the official name of that flag the "Jolly Roger?" Actually, I'm inclined to do a web search on the full history and significance of that flag, out of curiosity. Anyway, despite the humorous posts, I'm not sure if you realize that you're tilting against windmills here at OD. I have to ask how long you've lurked here before you signed up. Most of the clientele of this board neither wears hoods nor swastikas or other such regalia. Yet, you seem to not acknowledge this or care about it--you're more interesting in singling out a couple posters or a couple themes with which to use on all of us as a weapon of debate. Surely you must realize that you cannot achieve 100% ideological purity in "reforming" things to your particular views of how people should act and conduct themselves. Don't let pursuit of the perfect drive out the good. You have to admit that this board is not Stormfront, and that the people and ideas here are top-notch compared to what you find elsewhere on the Internet, or even in "mainstream" Establishment venues, for that matter. This board occupies a niche that other venues have not been able to fill, to date. It would be much more enjoyable and productive if you'd call a truce on this line of discussion and find some other topics to deal with. Try working with us rather than against us. Take a look at the articles in the "NeoCon Watch" section of this forum and see what's going on in there, see the discussions exposing the foreign policy hijack this country has undergone. There's more to political thought and analysis than merely discussion of "extremists" and their costumes. Try branching out a little. Like I once told Franco, adding some "art and variation" to one's posts can't hurt. It makes the board a more interesting place for members and the general public out there. RangeMe 2003-06-21 03:24 | User Profile They actively seek out anything anywhere looking to disrupt and destroy. Its their nature. They even have a prayer about getting orchards that they didnt plant houses that they didnt build. They are proud of producing nothing. Tom Rennick 2003-06-21 03:55 | User Profile [SIZE=3]To Answer Your Questions....[/SIZE] PaleoconAvatar said: > [color=red]"Rennick, I have to give you credit...I've seen a lot of characters come around these here cyber parts, but I think that at times you do know how to make an entertaining post."[/color] Mr. PaleoconAvatar: Thank you for the compliment. I believe it's the only one I've received since coming here, not that I'm counting. Instead, I'm more used to receiving these>>> :dung: But then, that's what anyone has to expect whenever he plays the role of heretic, as I have. I've rocked the proverbial boat, and found it to be a leaky one at that. In short, I've dared to challenge the prevaling orthodoxy that we white nationalists "are all working towards the same goal" when I've come instead to the sobering conclusion that "we" are not. In fact, I believe that "we" are causing great harm to our progress - harm that far outweighs anything the "Jew media" has ever done to us -or could. But to white nationalists utterly convinced that the sun doesn't rise or the clouds don't rain without first asking the ubiquitous "Jew" for permission, it's hard to convince the Kevin Stroms and the Don Blacks and the Tom Metzgers that "we" are currently our own worst enemy. That's just human nature, of course. Really, who likes being criticized? But if we aren't willing to criticize ourselves with an objective towards self-improvement, we certainly can expect our enemies to criticize us with an objective towards our own destruction. For instance, let's say the "Jew media" or the "multiculturalists" were weak in a certain area, that they had failed to take advantage of a certain opportunity to strengthen their position against us that we could plainly see ourselves - would we be so foolish as to tell them what it was? Of course not. Likewise, I contend that the "Jew media" and all their allies do in fact see where we white nationalists have gone wrong, where we could well strenghten our position against them if we only realized what we were doing wrong. But do you think the "Jew media" or our other enemies would ever be so stupid as to say, "Gee, if only you white nationalists did A, B, and C you'd kick our ass!" No, they would never say that. They are far too wise to ever let on that they know what we could be doing to strengthen our position against them. And as long as white nationalists believe that Neo-Nazis and skinheads are "helpful" to our cause, our enemies can continue to batter us from other directions as well, knowing that their rear flank is covered by our own stupidity. Now, I've been asked: Why the "fixation" on Neo-Nazis, skinheads, and the like? To me, that's like asking a police officer why he has a "fixation" on crime. If crime is harming a community, then it is crime (and criminals) that you go after. Likewise, I am convinced that the presence of Neo-Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK are not "minor issues" but the major, overriding element that is harming the progress of our movement. So yes, I am indeed "fixated" on this issue, since the entire foundation of white nationalism will remain weak and unstable until they are permanently removed from it. PaleoconAvatar said: > [color=red]"Most of the clientele of this board neither wears hoods nor swastikas or other such regalia."[/color] I believe that is true. However, that is not what is at issue here, in my opinion. What is at issue here is the fact that those who support white nationalism in general are giving tacit approval to the very thing that is killing it - Neo-Nazism and skinheadism. Consider Kevin Strom for a moment: for anyone familiar with his background, it's clear that he's the antithesis of everything skinheads are: educated, refined, articulate, clean-cut, well-groomed, etc. Even so, he tacitly approves of skinheads in all their greasy, sweaty, tattooed glory - and thus aids in the very destruction of his own cause. What irony! Mr. Strom is not alone in this, however. All the other major white nationalist players also tacitly approve of Neo-Nazis and skinheads, even if they personally find them abhorrent. Some make money off of them, others use them for their dirty work, while still others use them to give "numbers" to their organizations. Whatever the underlying motives, the end result is the same: Neo-Nazis and skinheads have become, as someone aptly said, the "poster children" of our movement. That spells bad news for us. PaleoconAvatar said: > [color=red]"Surely you must realize that you cannot achieve 100% ideological purity in "reforming" things to your particular views of how people should act and conduct themselves. Don't let pursuit of the perfect drive out the good."[/color] I agree that perfection cannot be achieved, that there will always be loose cannons in any socio-political revolution. But that does not mean that a large force of like-minded individuals cannot exert a necessary and healthy control over who is - and who isn't - allowed to be a part of its ranks. Take the US military, for example. It's a huge body of individuals all guided by certain basic premises - one of them being that homosexuals are not good for miltary morale. The reasons are not "hateful", but merely practical, since having known homosexual soldiers among the rank and file would create friction (no pun intended) and disruption. Therefore, they are wisely excluded. However, it could easily be argued that homosexuals do in fact exist in our military (in the closet) so why not just drop the bar against them, and let them openly join. I mean, since we cannot be "perfect" in our policy of keeping ALL homosexuals out, why attempt to keep any of them out? So the reasoning goes.... Even so, it's a form of reasoning I refuse to live by. Though I fully realize that "perfection" in the white nationalist movement is not an obtainable goal - cleaning out most of the riff-raff certainly is. PaleoconAvatar said: > **[color=red]"It would be much more enjoyable and productive if you'd call a truce on this line of discussion and find some other topics to deal with. Try working with us rather than against us." My intentions are not to be a "troll" or a "trouble-maker", but merely to cast out an ideological fishing line and see what lies out there in the current sea of white nationalism. Individuals like Franco are convinced the "Jew" is so terrifying, so monolithic in his power that I will never disavow him of this boogeyman. I may well be wrong, but the Jew doesn't scare me. I see him as but one of several dangerous beasts in the forest of multiculturalism, but not the all-powerful one. In fact, the far deadlier enemy in my opinion are those white gentiles who are aiding and abetting our other enemies in slitting our collective throat. The worst wars they say are wars between brothers. And the worst enemies are those enemies who come from one's own kind. PaleoconAvatar said: [/color][color=red]"Like I once told Franco, adding some "art and variation" to one's posts can't hurt."[/color]** I agree that "variation" is healthy and useful. That is one reason why I created "Beyond This Horizon", to offer a wider and more complex picture of white nationalism and its goals. If anyone is guilty of being a Johnny-One-Note it's the majority of white nationalist organizations, who basically preach "hate Jews, hate Jews, hate Jews" ad nauseam without ever letting the visitor in on what their overall weltanschauung is. In regard to mine, it is this: an America guided by its founding race can attain peace, prosperity, and untold glory - both here on earth and in the stars beyond. The sky is not the limit, and never will be. That is my belief, and without that to guide me, I would just lie down and let the oozing brown tide of multiculturalism wash over me.... [img]http://www.excelwater.com/img_site/about_water/sewage.jpg[/img] Chauncey 2003-06-21 04:17 | User Profile I think that the poster answered some questions truthfully. But, yet I see that Avatar is correct to try to stir Rennick to other areas of discussion. Rennick is beginning to sound like a broken record. Chauncey 2003-06-21 04:18 | User Profile I think that the poster answered some questions truthfully. But, yet I see that Avatar is correct to try to stir Rennick to other areas of discussion. Rennick is beginning to sound like a broken record. Perhaps Rennick needs to expand intellectually. Time can only tell if he does or if he continues to rant on. I feel that not only do the KKK and neo-nazi's do bad for the cause, but so does ranting on one extreme. One who is constantly at war with those he is telling to evolve, needs to evolve himself and move on. Or perhaps, he can't and wouldn't want to. He is perhaps comfortable in that area and couldn't really discuss with the big guys without having to constantly revert back to the ranting about KKK, neo-nazi's etc. I say that perhaps Mr. Rennick is much limited in what he has to say other than the KKK and neo-nazi's. He'll probably blast this then once again go into a tyrade about the race issue, KKK and neo-nazi's etc. Unable to move on and focus his abilities or talents in other areas. I wonder what is homelife is like? What about his fellow employees? Is Rennick able to grow and get to other issues are bay? Or is he stuck in black and brown colors and claiming to care. If there is care there, than he wouldn't sound like the yokels he is puttering at. Tom Rennick 2003-06-21 04:31 | User Profile > [color=red]"Rennick is beginning to sound like a broken record."[/color]** That's me! :rolleyes: [img]http://www.aroundcarolina.com/features/christmasmusic/art/phonograph.jpg[/img] Chauncey 2003-06-21 04:42 | User Profile Broken records are a thing of the past...Rennick are you that dinosaur you displayed? Nothing more than an image from the past. I laugh not at your cuteness, but at your nothingness to the support of caucasians. I put you into the same ole same ole as the KKK. madrussian 2003-06-21 04:45 | User Profile Broken record Rennick with his cosmic imagery [img]http://www.rickross.com/graphics/applewhite.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.trancenet.org/heavensgate/img/hbhgtd.jpg[/img] Tom Rennick 2003-06-21 05:47 | User Profile Chauncey said: > [color=red]"Broken records are a thing of the past...Rennick are you that dinosaur you displayed? Nothing more than an image from the past. I laugh not at your cuteness, but at your nothingness to the support of caucasians. I put you into the same ole same ole as the KKK."[/color] Mr. Chauncey: If I understand you correctly, I should remain silent about the damage that Neo-Nazism and Skinheadism is doing to the progress of white nationalism. Now, do I have you down correctly on that? I should, as you stated, not be "a broken record". Or, at best, I should only mention the problem once - feel satisfied over having done so - and then move on to other matters, whether anything ever gets resolved or not. Is that what you are suggesting I should do? The reason I'm asking these questions is because I'm really, REALLY trying to understand how people like you think. I mean, DO you think? Or do you just go along with the crowd, whomever the crowd happens to be? Do you believe that a problem will solve itself if those who recognize the problem remain silent? And, if so, then please enlighten me: how are problems solved unless they are voiced? How are people prodded to action unless there are those who will not rest until the problem is solved? Please, tell me. I genuinely want you to tell me how you would solve the problem of Neo-Nazism and skinheads in the white nationalist movement. Or.... Could it be that you don't see Neo-Nazism as a problem in the white nationalist movement? Could it be that you think they're just fine and dandy, thank you. If that is the case, as I now suspect, then let me assure you that I enjoy being a broken record, if it makes Neo-Nazi sympathizers like you uncomfortable. Now I must bid you adieu, Chauncey, because I've got to go over to my broken record and turn up the volume....[img]http://www.aroundcarolina.com/features/christmasmusic/art/phonograph.jpg[/img] MadDog barked: > [color=red]"Broken record Rennick with his cosmic imagery."[/color] Yes, that ol' "cosmic imagery" is so terrible. It's absolutely the scourge of the white nationalist movement, isn't it MadDog? Hey, I got a great idea - why don't you start a campaign to get "cosmic imagery" elimated from the white nationalist movement? For starters, you could go after me. You could even get some of your buddies to join in. You know, THESE guys: [img]http://libreopinion.com/members/tattooskins/tat18.jpg[/img] RangeMe 2003-06-21 06:08 | User Profile What do you think you can do about it, change their tats for them? Build something or do something yourself. I don't recall the left denouncing the drag queens when they were marching in the capitol during reagons time. The left spends all their energy attacking the right. You don't ever here them say to another lefty you are doing that wrong. When other lefties f*ck up they look the other way. Since you attack them you are on the left. Very simple equation. triskelion 2003-06-21 06:09 | User Profile Picking O.D. as a place for heaping contempt on posters with an extremely repetitive message in a grossly abusive manner as TR has chosen to do seemed at first very odd in that out of a forum membership of something like 500 I have seen exactly one Klansmen, zero skinheads and only two or three people that give unqualified endorsements towards American style nazis. Obviously, those four members will not be willing to listen anything TR has to say given his aggressive arrogance and abuse which has shut out the chance to debate what ever merits his notions may have in a manner befitting the overall temperament of this forum. The only reasons I can see for this is a simple matter of being obnoxious to strangers do to some personality failure or that wishes to take revenge for being banned from Storm Front on any forum open to racialists that will tolerate his presence. I have noted that those that chose to disagree with him in terms of the style or substance of his message are often falsely condemned as either representative of the stereotypes he clearly obsesses over while brimming with ridicule and contempt displaying the worst aspects of VNN style vindictiveness minus the obscenities. Leaders of groups he objects to he condemns as jews with zero evidence of them being so while accepting without question any criticism of his opponents as legitimate while over looking the fact such people have in fact been stunning representations of everything he claims to hate. These characteristics have led several members to view him as a negative entity here with very little to say beyond spewing hatred for those he objects to. I have noted with considerable aggravation that responses to TR often employ purposeful and grotesque distortions of his critics rebuttals and/or avoidance of addressing the substance of the arguments of others. Such behavior is disingenuous, obnoxious and totally at odds with having intelligent exchanges between adults over matters of importance to the forum. I regret to say that at times he has succeeded in infuriating me to such an extent that I have unfairly misrepresented what he has posted out of anger preventing me from giving his purposely noxious screeds the proper attention prior to posting replies. Certainly when I have committed such errors via inattention or out of anger I am out of line and readily admit to as much and apologize for doing so. In the end it is my contention that the inability of TR foster any exchange that is not ugly, abusive and repetitive has done a great disservice to this forum. His conduct has done as much to degrade the level of discourse as the ranting of Rban, Leo or Hbender making this a less worth while forum. RangeMe 2003-06-21 06:12 | User Profile Its obvious he wants to discredit by putting obnoxious images every other post or so. When some stranger comes in and sees them, guilt by association. Clearly he is not a WN in any sense of the word. madrussian 2003-06-21 06:17 | User Profile Time for Rennick to board a spaceship and fly away to his pathetic web site. A troll is a troll is a troll. Chauncey 2003-06-21 07:41 | User Profile I truly agree. TR is a man or woman that is frustrated in life and has to find some sort of passion to spew out his frustrations at. I do agree with TR on issues of KKK and neo-nazies, but outside of that he/she has little to say that is non-repetitive. It sounds to me that he/she goes from forum to forum spewing out his objections, and does it intellegently, yet he/she loses credibility when it is all he/she focuses on. Should he/she ever be exposed for what he/she is about, whether he/she was a successful businessman, or just an unemployed office worker, all who have fallen into his/her trap of having to lesson to his/her empty rhetoric will then nod and say no wonder he is the way he is. He's/she's been nowhere...isn't going anywhere and will amount to nothing but just a lot of hot air (I await the next image because he/she seems bent on filling up his posts with pirated graphics). If you go out and view his other posts as I have over the last few hours, one would have to ask what else does TR do for a living? Is he/she just employed to make websites and use forums to preach? He/she doesn't seem to work. He/she is always on the computer. Is this person in business of his/her own to allow all the time on the computer? Or, is this person a frustrated old man/woman that life has passed by and they are pissed because of it and is looking for something out there to say it's "mine" so they would have something at the end? I think the person is either unemployed, retired, or on welfare. If unemployed, they need to get a job. If retired, they need a garden to plant and work with. And, if on welfare...well that's a shame for they act all high almighty when they are really no better than who they preach to. Preaching to me is not a pleasant occupation as many will shut their ears once they feel they are being preached to. I guess TR doesn't realize that. As far as intelligent conversation, it is not with TR OD will have it with. He is one of a few, fortunately, that come in to OD to spout out repetitive rhetoric that goes nowhere. Even reading my comments to TR and then his, he said the same old things and asked the same old questions and they lead to a nothingness. I checked out the website. This person is obviously living in another world. They don't like this one, so they create another with the problems of this one to go into it. It's so childish. His/her life must be really boring with little laughter in it. Just his/her own. A frustrated old fart with little to say. Tom Rennick 2003-06-21 19:12 | User Profile Mr. Chauncey said: > [color=red]"I truly agree. TR is a man or woman that is frustrated in life and has to find some sort of passion to spew out his frustrations at. I do agree with TR on issues of KKK and neo-nazies, but outside of that he/she has little to say that is non-repetitive. It sounds to me that he/she goes from forum to forum spewing out his objections, and does it intellegently, yet he/she loses credibility when it is all he/she focuses on. Should he/she ever be exposed for what he/she is about, whether he/she was a successful businessman, or just an unemployed office worker, all who have fallen into his/her trap of having to lesson to his/her empty rhetoric will then nod and say no wonder he is the way he is. He's/she's been nowhere...isn't going anywhere and will amount to nothing but just a lot of hot air (I await the next image because he/she seems bent on filling up his posts with pirated graphics). If you go out and view his other posts as I have over the last few hours, one would have to ask what else does TR do for a living? Is he/she just employed to make websites and use forums to preach? He/she doesn't seem to work. He/she is always on the computer. Is this person in business of his/her own to allow all the time on the computer? Or, is this person a frustrated old man/woman that life has passed by and they are pissed because of it and is looking for something out there to say it's "mine" so they would have something at the end? I think the person is either unemployed, retired, or on welfare. If unemployed, they need to get a job. If retired, they need a garden to plant and work with. And, if on welfare...well that's a shame for they act all high almighty when they are really no better than who they preach to. Preaching to me is not a pleasant occupation as many will shut their ears once they feel they are being preached to. I guess TR doesn't realize that. As far as intelligent conversation, it is not with TR OD will have it with. He is one of a few, fortunately, that come in to OD to spout out repetitive rhetoric that goes nowhere. Even reading my comments to TR and then his, he said the same old things and asked the same old questions and they lead to a nothingness. I checked out the website. This person is obviously living in another world. They don't like this one, so they create another with the problems of this one to go into it. It's so childish. His/her life must be really boring with little laughter in it. Just his/her own. A frustrated old fart with little to say."[/color] Mr. Chauncey: Judging from your response above, it's clear that you're incapable of responding with anything better than an ad hominem attack. You speak of "intelligent conversation", and yet you demonstrate your own inability to perform such a task by spewing out the above vomit of words. Instead, you're motivated like every other individual who's mental capacities are limited - you attack blindly and viciously - then flee. But, out of fairness, let us now offer the other members of this forum the opportunity to examine one of your recent posts: [font=Arial]> [color=red]"I personally think that one of the biggest reasons that the world that are non-european in culture or conquered are basically pissed that other non-caucasians countries or nations or territories were conquered from those who conquered in the first place. Caucasians with their intellect was able to move further in civilization because they were not only smarter than many (Chinese supposedly are smarter, but have problems with having strong leaders and weak population, so they don't revolt--the land of followers), which they used to expand their populace worldwide. Then the religion came in and said, 'naughty naughty white man...others are also important.' Well, I would have to agree that others are important...but they still need to be ruled! One day, caucasians will be ruled by those we submit to. What a weak bunch!"[/color] Now, take the first sentence of yours above: [color=purple]"I personally think that one of the biggest reasons that the world that are non-european in culture or conquered are basically pissed that other non-caucasians countries or nations or territories were conquered from those who conquered in the first place."[/color] Say what? What kind of garbled nonsense was that I just read? Well, let's take another sentence, where you say: [color=purple]"Caucasians with their intellect was able..."[/color] [color=red]"was" able?[/color] What kind of illiterate sentence construction is that, Mr. Chauncey? Is that your idea of "intelligent conversation" or were you attempting to imitate the speech pattern of an inner city negro youth? Moving on: [color=purple]"Chinese supposedly are smarter, but have problems with having strong leaders and weak population..."[/color] Huh? Well, I think we've all seen enough, don't you, Mr. Chauncey? It's clear that you're seriously in need of a refresher course in basic English composition - as well as decent manners. Good day. Chauncey 2003-06-21 19:25 | User Profile Obviously I was correct in my assumption that TR is incapable of anything other than the same old rhetoric. Had to get on the negro tirade again. From ad hominem that I was guilty of, to his own against me. Poor TR...I laugh at your limitations...I laugh at your insecurities...I laugh at you...you who will never be able to serve or stand or lead amongst the great ones...that is if only in your own mind, the only thing to tells you you are something other than the misfit amongst the intellectual men of today. You continue to fool yourself into thinking you really have something to say. You fool yourself into thinking you are intellegent. You may be smart and very good at putting out statements, but perhaps that is the only good quality you do have. You are probably not only a frustrated old fart, but also a frustrated old writer as well. So, perhaps this another reason for your anger and frustrations. Strike at all. I see you are again on the computer. What a wasted life. Many in the room probably have life...a life you are sadly jealous of. You are a good study, TR. A sad life in a downhill spiral. A nobody who is trying to become a somebody in a forum. I can't help but laugh and continue my own criticisms of your tirades as they are going nowhere but to let off some steam over why you haven't accomplished much in life. Life is just passing you by and you haven't yet figured out how to live. You are a fraud in disguise. Laugh...Laugh...Laugh. A frustrated old fart. madrussian 2003-06-21 19:55 | User Profile Can so many posters here be wrong about Rennick, and Rennick be right? Only if Rennick is a Jew :lol: Chauncey 2003-06-21 20:15 | User Profile All I going to say from now on about Rennick, is he is definitely a study in motion. It's going to be fun to see and read just how many times he can say something and restate it again, then again in a different syntax. He must have said everything here in the forum many times before. It gives him something to do and us something to laugh about. I just can't see Rennick being anything more than a frustrated old man or somebody whose ship never came in. It'll be fun. I've always just watched and read with delight, but now Rennick is someone I'll keep reading for a good laugh at his endless diatribes that are going no where. If anyone has seen his lame website, then in study one can see his own limited ability to do anything but to advertise the already written about. And, he 'creates' his own little world that is fantasy and would only be fantasy if it came about somehow. He is a man with very little to say and a big audience--the internet. He wouldn't dare face the real world because he is too scared to advance his philosophy outside the internet. He probably just hides in a corner of his room and doesn't go to face the real music on the street. He is probably unable to function in real life. Too many readings have set him in on a path of self destruction. A pathetic soul that one must pity. Please everyone, listen to him and laugh at his feeble diatribes as they are only meant to stir up things in a forum that is meant for serious discussion on many things. TR is unable to go further outside the race issue before he finds himself back on it. He tries...but he can't escape it because it is him and it eats at him. A poor pathetic old fart. golfball 2003-06-22 01:51 | User Profile In all of those pictures of Klansmen and women submitted by Tom Rennick, I did not see any Knights..... :huh: On another note, when Mr Chauncey somewhat agreed with Mr. Rennick, Chauncey was attacked.... as with all who agree with trolls. Oh well, this is just a message forum for people to get together and discuss issues in an intellectual, adult fashion. I am not slighted by the Tom Rennicks of the world, nor do I feel threatened by them. Chauncey, did you learn something today? B) Corgi, did you wander over here from Scullyspost? RangeMe 2003-06-22 01:56 | User Profile Your feeding the troll. TR obviously enjoys cutting and pasting those long boring posts of his. Let it be wasted effort and don't respond. Better yet ban him and let him take his clipboard of garbage elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the freaks are actually the same person and are arguing with themselves to generate propaganda. Hmmmm I wonder if one could right a mad libs sort of www perl agent that could scan a board and do a grammer/spelling check and post corrections and skinhead pictures when it detects a misspelled word. I think I'll work on that. Can anyone help me collect a slew of pictures of evil looking leftist freaks for my babble bot to post on lefty boards? golfball 2003-06-22 02:04 | User Profile Yes, there are a few,........ One Peoples Project comes to mind with their head negro, Lamont Jenkins :rolleyes: There are others with their own message boards :) , but as with most faggot supporting, racial mixing glorification, message boards and chatrooms, there are no intelligent life present on those forums. Basically any Pro-negro, Pro-communist, Pro-non white, Pro-homosexual, etc...etc, type of boards, you can find those posting pictures with phone numbers and other contact information. Chauncey 2003-06-22 02:42 | User Profile RangeMe, I am actually having fun with Mr. Rennick. He's an experiment of mine. He's also a problem with the nationalist movement--extremist in thought and idea. I don't have the answers because the problem is so widespread and until the right leaders are placed into power, the nationalist movement will also seem either cult like, extremist, radical, anti-American--you name it. TR is not answer. It's only a person with little to do productive in his own life and lives in some sort of misery. He'll never really find any kind of happiness or success. TR gets in the way of that. He's sad figure of individual that has our goals in mind, but his goals of causing irritation takes over. He would not be a good candidate for leadership. He does say some things that are intellegent. However, he just concentrates on that same rhetoric. He himself has no answer to what needs to be done that is original. His website speaks of a troubled man with problems with reality and is almost anti-social, with no real allegiances or loyalties, except perhaps to himself. I pity TR. He's just an old fart with nothing to do or anyone who loves him. RangeMe 2003-06-22 04:16 | User Profile What is his www site url? Chauncey 2003-06-22 04:46 | User Profile It's located at [url=http://www.beyondthishorizon.com/]http://www.beyondthishorizon.com/[/url]. If you look at the site, it is done well...graphics intensive...but still just goes off on blacks. When you go to the various links, you'll see that he is bent on science fiction, which is fine because I like science fiction. But, his goes deeper. He lives science fiction, thus not in the real world. He's not after the present or the near future, but a future I don't feel we'll get to. He claims through his writings and all that it's because of the blacks. He continues to concentrate on blacks. Very narrow in why we are further than we are in the future. It's great to have visions of space travel and planet colonization, but he's kind of stuck in a star trek-star wars warp and is unable to escape. Escapism is probably his best strategy to stay away from the present. RangeMe 2003-06-22 06:29 | User Profile Hmmm looks like he is intent on wiping out klingons around uranus. RangeMe 2003-06-22 06:34 | User Profile I remember this guy. Didnt he have a picture of himself and his family on his old www site. He had one, way long front page with him and tons of skinhead pictures which he was slamming. Wow he is still around and singing the same tune. Anyone know what book Kevin was saying he thinks he wrote? Texas Dissident 2003-06-22 09:48 | User Profile *Originally posted by Chauncey@Jun 21 2003, 02:41 * ** As far as intelligent conversation, it is not with TR OD will have it with. He is one of a few, fortunately, that come in to OD to spout out repetitive rhetoric that goes nowhere. ** He definitely has been a johnny one note. But in reality he is only one counter to the 25 or 30 other opposite johnny one notes who also offer no discussion or debate. I've been very tolerant to both sides I think, but I do hope all the posturing bears some fruit sooner rather than later. It's beginning to enter the distraction phase. Let's all try to remember who and what we're trying to represent and ensure that we do it honorably and within the bounds of common decency. Not singling anyone out, but asking each man to man. Chauncey 2003-06-22 20:34 | User Profile Well said, Tex. I am also hoping to see that with him and the others. Sometimes there is so much wind that is blowing, that the sand that blows into the eyes makes it hard to see the landscape. Franco 2003-06-22 23:37 | User Profile Tex -- I hear what you say, speaking as a Johnny-one-note myself. But, our situation is so simple it's scary: a. What is nationalism? Acting and thinking as a race. b. Who opposes nationalism among Whites more than any other humans, and with greater success than any others? Jews. c. Solution? Target Jews. Simple, itz! RangeMe 2003-06-23 01:10 | User Profile There is only one way out. Range to target? RangeMe