← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Pinochet
Thread ID: 7262 | Posts: 38 | Started: 2003-06-11
2003-06-11 03:25 | User Profile
After reading several books about recent history, specially about marxism, I took a little break and started reading novels. Right now I'm reading "Misery" by Stephen King... very good (and scary ;) ) book. I suggest you read it. :th:
2003-06-11 03:43 | User Profile
Just (finally) received Spengler's Decline of the West. Wish me luck.
Also: Beloved Bride: The Letters of Stonewall Jackson to His Wife, edited by Bill Potter
The Man Who Flew the Memphis Belle, by Co. Robert Morgan
The Maxims of Robert E. Lee for Young Gentlemen, edited by Richard C. Williams, Jr.
2003-06-11 04:01 | User Profile
Check out "How to Lose Friends and Influence People" and also "Any Human Heart".
The latter is written by the greatest living writer, William Boyd. Happy reading.
2003-06-11 04:02 | User Profile
I'm currently reading "1001 Bolshevik Bedtime Stories," by Sammy Goldbergfeld, Morris Steinbaumnik, Sylvia Cohen-Greenwitz and Lenny Rosenbloomkrantz.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
I'll send ya the book when I'm done, Tex.
:D :D :D
2003-06-11 04:42 | User Profile
[u]The Nothing That Is: A Natural History of Zero[/u] by Robert Kaplan, which is pretty damn good so far.
2003-06-11 13:15 | User Profile
Neo and have I recently finished ( I read to him in the car on our commute) Rosslyn (by ?); and The Second Messiah and The Hiram Key (both by Knight and Lomas); and are just finishing The Templar Revelation, Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ (Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince) -- all FASCinating! They are all tracing the connections between the Knights Templar, the Freemasons, the early 'Christian' Church, Egyptian mystery religions, and so on.
I recommend them VERY highly for a whole new 'take' on the whole subject...
I'm also reading on my own The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception -- makes me VERY VERY angry at the Catholic Church (sorry, Walter -- well, not really!) for their deceptions, lying, prevaricating, preventing release and controlling the study of the Dead Sea Scrolls (NO scholar not wholly owned and controlled by the Church is allowed to even look at photos of the scrolls!!) -- dya'll even know the INQUISITION is in charge of the scrolls and fragments, and the Pope has issued STRICT orders that ALL study and conclusions MUST agree with church doctrine (no matter WHAT the actual scrolls show!)? I keep wondering just how much of the fragments and scrolls has been "put to the flame"?!
For example: the 'dating' of the scrolls has been carefully controlled and the Church's pet "scholars" have declared unequivocally and "finally" that they come from c. 100 BC (pre-Christian) -- but of course the scrolls DESCRIBE the Roman soldiers "sacrificing to their standards" in honor of their victories -- which can ONLY have been Imperial Rome (god/emperor), and they also refer to the "King" of the Romans -- so HOW can it possibly Republican Rome?!
It's beyond scandal into deliberately criminal! So much for the "honorable" church! :angry:
Oh, and they've had them for more than 40 years -- but aren't yet "ready" to release much/most of them (not even photos!) (not even to the most highly respected scholars who are NOT under the direct control of the church!). But the Nag Hammadi scrolls -- same kinda thing -- were ALL released within THREE YEARS of their discovery!!
Lying lying cheating Church!! FOR SHAME!!
2003-06-11 14:50 | User Profile
Finished with the pile of library books I checked out (Therapist, Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt, Inside American Education), so I'm reading Sandman comics that my husband dug out of the basement a couple weeks ago until I feel like going to the library again.
2003-06-11 14:54 | User Profile
Originally posted by Avalanche@Jun 11 2003, 07:15 For example: the 'dating' of the scrolls has been carefully controlled and the Church's pet "scholars" have declared unequivocally and "finally" that they come from c. 100 BC (pre-Christian) -- but of course the scrolls DESCRIBE the Roman soldiers "sacrificing to their standards" in honor of their victories -- which can ONLY have been Imperial Rome (god/emperor), and they also refer to the "King" of the Romans -- so HOW can it possibly Republican Rome?!
I don't see how that proves anything for it doesn't distinguish between the Republican and Imperial periods. In fact the sharp line drawn between the Imperium and Republic (the ascension of Augustus) is rather arbitrary as, much like America, the Republic slowly degenerated into Empire over the course of generations.
Both Republican and Imperial legionaries held their standards as sacred and the 'king' reference isn't relevant for Rome never had Roman kings merely Etruscan overlords. Their institution of Emperor was directly descended from the Republican office of Dictator; they even shared the same title: Imperator. In anycase the meaning of 'king' is both subjective and relative. Roman history is full of references to powerful men being referred to as 'king' as a means of flattery and insult, depending on the context, or merely because the writer didnââ¬â¢t grasp the significance of Roman institutions.
2003-06-11 15:05 | User Profile
Oh, and they've had them for more than 40 years -- but aren't yet "ready" to release much/most of them (not even photos!) (not even to the most highly respected scholars who are NOT under the direct control of the church!). But the Nag Hammadi scrolls -- same kinda thing -- were ALL released within THREE YEARS of their discovery!!
What the hell are you talking about?
I did a Google search on Dead Sea Scrolls and found all kinds of stuff.
Back in the 50's the damned things were for sale to anybody who wanted them!
How "carefully controlled" can they be?
Check it out.
1.The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in eleven caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea between the years 1947 and 1956. The area is 13 miles east of Jerusalem and is 1300 feet below sea level. The mostly fragmented texts, are numbered according to the cave that they came out of. They have been called the greatest manuscript discovery of modern times. See a Dead Sea Scroll Jar.
In all, scholars have identified the remains of about 825 to 870 separate scrolls.
The Scrolls can be divided into two categoriesââ¬âbiblical and non-biblical. Fragments of every book of the Hebrew canon (Old Testament) have been discovered except for the book of Esther.
There are now identified among the scrolls, 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms .
Prophecies by Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Daniel not found in the Bible are written in the Scrolls.
The Isaiah Scroll, found relatively intact, is 1000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah. In fact, the scrolls are the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found.
In the Scrolls are found never before seen psalms attributed to King David and Joshua.
9.There are nonbiblical writings along the order of commentaries on the OT, paraphrases that expand on the Law, rule books of the community, war conduct, thanksgiving psalms, hymnic compositions, benedictions, liturgical texts, and sapiential (wisdom) writings.
The Scrolls are for the most part, written in Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic. Aramaic was the common language of the Jews of Palestine for the last two centuries B.C. and of the first two centuries A.D. The discovery of the Scrolls has greatly enhanced our knowledge of these two languages. In addition, there are a few texts written in Greek.
The Scrolls appear to be the library of a Jewish sect. The library was hidden away in caves around the outbreak of the First Jewish Revolt (A.D. 66-70) as the Roman army advanced against the rebel Jews.
Near the caves are the ancient ruins of Qumran. They were excavated in the early 1950's and appear to be connected with the scrolls.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were most likely written by the Essenes during the period from about 200 B.C. to 68 C.E./A.D. The Essenes are mentioned by Josephus and in a few other sources, but not in the New testament. The Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, apocalyptic, baptist, wilderness, new covenant Jewish sect. They were led by a priest they called the "Teacher of Righteousness," who was opposed and possibly killed by the establishment priesthood in Jerusalem.
The enemies of the Qumran community were called the "Sons of Darkness"; they called themselves the "Sons of Light," "the poor," and members of "the Way." They thought of themselves as "the holy ones," who lived in "the house of holiness," because "the Holy Spirit" dwelt with them.
The last words of Joseph, Judah, Levi, Naphtali, and Amram (the father of Moses) are written down in the Scrolls.
One of the most curious scrolls is the Copper Scroll. Discovered in Cave 3, this scroll records a list of 64 underground hiding places throughout the land of Israel. The deposits are to contain certain amounts of gold, silver, aromatics, and manuscripts. These are believed to be treasures from the Temple at Jerusalem, that were hidden away for safekeeping.
The Temple Scroll, found in Cave 11, is the longest scroll. Its present total length is 26.7 feet (8.148 meters). The overall length of the scroll must have been over 28 feet (8.75m).
The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. The story of Abraham includes an explanation why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.
The scrolls are most commonly made of animal skins, but also papyrus and one of copper. They are written with a carbon-based ink, from right to left, using no punctuation except for an occasional paragraph indentation. In fact, in some cases, there are not even spaces between the words.
The Scrolls have revolutionized textual criticism of the Old Testament. Interestingly, now with manuscripts predating the medieval period, we find these texts in substantial agreement with the Masoretic text as well as widely variant forms.
Some of the Dead Sea Scrolls actually appeared for sale on June 1, 1954 in the Wall Street Journal. The advertisement read ââ¬â "The Four Dead Sea Scrolls: Biblical manuscripts dating back to at least 200 BC are for sale. This would be an ideal gift to an educational or religious institution by an individual or group. Box F206."
Although the Qumran community existed during the time of the ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower's described in the New Testament.
[color=red]The major intact texts, from Caves 1 & 11, were published by the late fifties and are now housed in the Shrine of the Book museum in Jerusalem. [/color]
Since the late fifties, about 40% of the Scrolls, mostly fragments from Cave 4, remained unpublished and were unaccessible. It wasn't until 1991, 44 years after the discovery of the first Scroll, after the pressure for publication mounted, that general access was made available to photographs of the Scrolls. In November of 1991 the photos were published by the Biblical Archaeological Society in a nonofficial edition; a computer reconstruction, based on a concordance, was announced; the Huntington Library pledged to open their microfilm files of all the scroll photographs.
The Dead Sea Scrolls enhance our knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity. They represent a non-rabbinic form of Judaism and provide a wealth of comparative material for New Testament scholars, including many important parallels to the Jesus movement. They show Christianity to be rooted in Judaism and have been called the evolutionary link between the two.
Recommended For Further Study:
The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible Understanding the Dead Sea Scrolls Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls Dead Sea Scrolls Revealed CD-Rom
2003-06-11 16:18 | User Profile
I usually read several books at a time. Currently reading Race, Evolution and Behavior by J. Philippe Rushton (excellent), and The Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa by K. C. Tessendorf. The latter has an obvious and rather irritating anti-apartheid slant to it, but is otherwise an excellent introduction to South African history (I'll post some interesting excerpts here).
2003-06-11 16:55 | User Profile
I'm currently reading The Devil Is In the Details: Essays on Law, Race, Politics and Religion, by Ellis Washington. It's a hard book to describe as each of the nine essays handle a different subject, but they're all tied together by the subject of race.
Above all else, Washington believes that Blacks "....have substituted racism and discrimination with their own unique brand of exclusionary and equally immoral twin ideologies--Afrocentrism and Multiculturalism. . . . Multiculturalism seeks to view all races as equal despite the obvious substandard performances of some races, in practically every category of intelligence and mental development. Liberal activists, rather than addressing such disparities honestly, attribute them to White racism or charge that Whites are unfairly judging minorities by Eurocentric standards. But this is precisely what Afrocentrists and Multiculturalists seek to do by viewing world history through the ahistorical, rose-colored lens of Afrocentrism." I couldn't agree with him more on this statement.
2003-06-11 17:38 | User Profile
I just finished reading "Thou art That," by Joseph Campbell (light reading).
Prior to this, I read "Fateful Triangle," by Noam Chomsky. Now there's a few days of my life that I wish I could have back.
2003-06-11 19:31 | User Profile
Le Morte d' Arthur by Malory - great stuff, all in Middle English. Slow going but very enjoyable. :king:
Bought a Hardback copy of Dune by Frank Herbert to re-read soon.
Just finished Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men, a future history extending from our time to several billion years in the future, with all the evolution, devolution, and divergence of the various civilizations and species collectively called Man. I highly recommend it, as it acknowledges the irrational manias that sweep up civilizations and the biological roots of cultures. Very relevant to this group. :1eye:
2003-06-11 21:12 | User Profile
As ever I have 3 books handy that I generally read and reread. I suggest others may find them interesting.
Spengler's Decline of the West Gibbon's History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments
2003-06-12 09:00 | User Profile
Anabasis by Xenophon
Stonewall Jackson by G. F. R. Henderson
The Sign of Four by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
2003-06-12 09:48 | User Profile
The Crystal Sun: Rediscovering A Lost Technology Of The Ancient World by Robert Temple.
Temple finds hundreds of complex lenses of glass and quartz going back to deep antiquity. Pliny's discriptions of same were mistranslated by earlier scholars; Temple corrects this and shows optical technology was advanced and widespread during the Pliny's era and before. Other examples are stunning. Sargon II (ca 700 BC) had a monocle to correct his astigmatism!
Mary Magdalene: Christianity's Hidden Goddess by Lynn Picknett
Picknett co-wrote The Templar Revelation (mentioned above) and is in so-so form in this solo effort. Good THing: Full of her usual finds. Bad Thing: Some of her finds this time are tosh & twaddle. She thinks Egyptians were black and devotes a chapter to it though it's totally off-point in the book. Mary Magdalene's feastday on the Roman calendar is July 22. This is a special day to me so I usually read any books about her that might come along.
2003-06-12 13:10 | User Profile
Recently read and finished Le Colonel Chambert by Honore de Balzac in the original French. If you don't know about it, the colonel returns home to France after many years of war and was given up for dead by his wife, who re-marries and has all the colonel's fortune. The colonel tries to reconcile. The colonel was fighting with Napoleon in Russia where most of the colonel's troops were killed which the colonel recalls in detail. Striking and intriguing tale.
Currently I'm trying to finish up Don Quixote by Miguel Cervantes, in English. It's been 1.5 years running. I only have 458 pages left (out of a total 949)! Fascinating book, however, and it's a pure look into the times, customs and lifestyles of the early 17th Century Europe, Spain in particular.
Otherwise I sneak a Shakespeare story in here and there. My library carries a series of Shakespeare classics with the original text on one side of the page and it's modern English translation on the opposite page face. I like it. Makes Shakespeare fun reading. Even King Lear!
Lastly, I'm going to look into reading some of the books recommended by others here on OD. In particular the books mentioned by Avalanche.
2003-06-12 13:26 | User Profile
Back to Eric von Zipper (OD wouldn't let me respond last night...) The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception was published in 1991 -- perhaps the world has changed since then ... but the book is persuasive that there has been monstrous deception and hoarding going on. I donââ¬â¢t want to get in a fight about which website disagrees with the book, or which parts of the book are good, bad, or indifferent. I have described my ââ¬Ëtakeââ¬â¢ on the book, debunkers should go after Baigent and Leigh... {BG} (my smilies aren't workin' either... sigh)
Just off the top of my head, as the book is elsewhere at the moment:
**Eric vZ: The Scrolls can be divided into two categoriesââ¬âbiblical and non-biblical. ** The CATHOLIC groups of ââ¬Åscholarsââ¬Â in charge of the scrolls, which obviously has a dog in the fight, divided the stuff up into ââ¬Åbiblicalââ¬Â and ââ¬Ånon-biblical,ââ¬Â and has released some of the stuff that agrees with their dogma.
** 16. One of the most curious scrolls is the Copper Scroll. Discovered in Cave 3, this scroll records a list of 64 underground hiding places throughout the land of Israel. The deposits are to contain certain amounts of gold, silver, aromatics, and manuscripts. These are believed to be treasures from the Temple at Jerusalem, that were hidden away for safekeeping. ** The CATHOLIC groups of ââ¬Åscholars,ââ¬Â (and their fightinââ¬â¢ dog) declared that the ââ¬ÅTreasureââ¬Â laid out by quantity and location in the Copper Scroll was not imaginary/not real, despite other scholars believing it was.. The Catholics were desperate to "PROVE" that this Qumran group were a detached and removed splinter group, so it couldn't POSSIBLY be true that they knew about Temple treasures and its location -- cause then THEY would have been provably involved WITH the Temple (and pretty knowledgeable if they knew where the treasures were hidden!)
** 22. Although the Qumran community existed during the time of the ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower's described in the New Testament. ** There is a LOT of disagreement about whether or not Jesus was the ââ¬ÅTeacher of Rightousnessââ¬Â mentioned in the scrolls ââ¬â or was it someone else. Also, about whether or not the Essenes were the peaceful ââ¬Ëmonasticââ¬â¢ people the Catholic group and their puppy insist they were (because Qumran is a massively fortified place, with the entrances on the second floors, and even has a FORGE with its own water supply.) (Some peopl eeven think it was a fortress of the Zealots!)
Oh, and the "approved" scholars keep pushing the 'monastic' view of Qumran -- all celibate men -- except there are WOMEN AND CHILDREN buried there! And some of the Rules for Living (in the non-biblical stuff that is/was being so closely held -- well, actually entirely kept away from the public) had rules for and about women, marriages and children. Some monastery, eh?
p.s. Thanks xmetahead -- truly, fascinating fascinating books!! I'd suggest starting with Second Messiah , going on to * Hiram Key , and then * Templar Revelation -- but that's just cause it's the way we read them, and they all tie-in nicely (you're prepared for each next book by the one before!) and then * Dead Sea Scrolls Deception* adds a wonderful fillip behind all the other stories!
2003-06-12 13:59 | User Profile
Avalanche
Perhaps you should eliminate the adjectives in your posts on this subject and try to be a little more dispassionate. I also question your progligate use of quotes around scholars. Are you implying that they are NOT scholars? And what is it with CATHOLIC? And "PROVE".
Maybe I misunderstand, and your use of caps and such are like Tom Wolf in The Electric Cool Aid Acid Test simply a matter of style.
And what is wrong with dividing the scrolls into Biblical and non Biblical? It seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I'm sure the Church does have a dog in the fight in the sense that these things are too important to just let the jews use them to do what they do best: discredit Jesus.
2003-06-12 17:36 | User Profile
What's the feminine version of ad hominem? Are you addressing my points or how how I've made them?! (tee hee hee)
You're right -- vonZ -- I DO overuse capital letters... I am naturally rather expressive (can't you see me gesturing as I write?). I find email a particularly limiting way to communicate -- all vocal nuance, all emphasis, all metamessaging is absent. How does one express, for instance, the hesitation in vocal flow to imply a sense of dubiousness about the phrase about to be spoken? I use ellipsis -- NOT a particularly graceful workaround -- got a better one? The use of quotation marks is much the same -- I am trying to convey a sarcastic or questioning tone. Capitals are an attempt to convey a stressed word, an 'emphatic' pronounciation.
Now, to the MEAT of the matter (which you didn't really answer). The division into biblical and nonbibilical means a lot, if one of the things shunted off into non-biblical (and thus not released) is, say, the use and supply of a (weapons-making) forge in the supposedly entirely pacifist "essene" compound of Qumran. If the rules applying to women and children are kept hidden so that the monastic impression of Qumran stands. If the things that were "unique" to Jesus turn out to be common places at Qumran, but Jesus wasn't a part of Qumran -- or was he? (Dja know that the words "Our Father who art in Heaven" come directly from an EGYPTIAN prayer to Osiris?)
Supposing the stuff they won't release shows that the message of Jesus was DIFFERENT from the 'fundamentals' that the Church has based itself on? Why was Mary Magdalene called BY JESUS The Apostle of Apostles? How does that square with the picture the Church paints of her?
It's not about Jews smearing the Church -- it's about correcting mistakes (!?) the Church has made (when was Galileo cleared? In the 1980's?). If the real message of Jesus differs from the one the Church has been pushing, I understand the Church refusing to let it out, but I don't think very highly of their supposed integrity!
2003-06-12 18:29 | User Profile
Why was Mary Magdalene called BY JESUS The Apostle of Apostles? How does that square with the picture the Church paints of her?
I don't know where that quote comes from. I'd appreciate a source. I really don't know what you mean when you say this: . > ** How does that square with the picture the Church paints of her?** Mary is currently the subject of much debate within the church. Some want to elevate her to disciple status.
As for > it's about correcting mistakes (!?) the Church has made (when was Galileo cleared? .
This is one of the oldest anti church chestnuts not served up by a jew. This nonsense about Galileo emerged during the French Revolution and its attempt to discredit Catholicism and replace it with the Church of Reason. Volaire or Rosseau were behind it and the lie traveled around the world before the truth ever got out of bed, as they say.
Galileo was the victim of academicians who, much like today's academicians, resented being exposed as propagators of an erroneous theory. They knew Galileo was right, the church knew he was right, and Galileo knew that they knew he was right. Everybody knew the Earth revolved around the Sun. It was just a question of the Church acknowledging it officially. And Galileo ignored their warnings not to publish before they approved it. The Church actually protected Galileo against his enemies in academia who used the canard of heresy in an attempt to silence him. There was much clamoring for Galileo's head from his rivals. It was of the "hey, Pope, you're not gonna let him get away with that, are you?" variety. And the Pope did finally put him on trial primarily to silence not Galileo but his critics. But the fix was in and they saw to it that he got convicted on lesser charges and was put under house arrest on Church property. Which was fine with Galileo, who was devout and a widower and whose brother was a Bishop, I believe.
You throw a lot of mud against the wall. But not much of it sticks.
2003-06-13 04:48 | User Profile
**Eric vZ: This is one of the oldest anti church chestnuts not served up by a jew. This nonsense about Galileo emerged during the French Revolution and its attempt to discredit Catholicism and replace it with the Church of Reason. Volaire or Rosseau were behind it and the lie traveled around the world before the truth ever got out of bed, as they say.
Galileo was the victim of academicians who, much like today's academicians, resented being exposed as propagators of an erroneous theory. They knew Galileo was right, the church knew he was right, and Galileo knew that they knew he was right. You think itââ¬â¢s okay that the Church didnââ¬â¢t ââ¬Åcorrect its errorââ¬Â for 350+ years? And you think it is okay that they a.) KNEW he was right, but b.) charged and convicted him and c.) did NOT ââ¬Ëundoââ¬â¢ the conviction for 350+ years?! I don't! (And it took the Church Commission THIRTEEN YEARS to figure it out in 1992?!) > Catholic Church Clears Galileo of Heresy Charges By William D. Montalbano é 1992, Los Angeles Times 10/31 VATICAN CITY _ It's official: The Earth revolves around the sun, even for the Vatican.
The Roman Catholic Church has admitted to erring these past 359 years in formally condemning Galileo Galilei for entertaining scientific truths it long denounced as against-the-Scriptures heresy.
Pope John Paul II himself turned up Saturday for a meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences to help set the record straight on behalf of the 17th-Century Italian mathematician, astronomer and physicist who was the first man to use a telescope and who is remembered as one of history's greatest scientists.
ââ¬ÅThe underlying problems of this case concern both the nature of science and the message of faith,'' the pope noted. ââ¬ÅOne day we may find ourselves in a similar situation, which will require both sides to have an informed awareness of the field and of the limits of their own competencies.''
Thirteen years after he appointed it, a commission of historic, scientific and theological inquiry brought the pope a ââ¬Ånot guilty'' finding for Galileo, who, at age 69 in 1633, was forced to repent by the Roman Inquisition and spent the last eight years of his life under house arrest.
The commission found that Galileo's clerical judges acted in good faith but rejected his theories because they were ââ¬Åincapable of dissociating faith from an age-old cosmology'' _ the biblical vision of the Earth as the center of the universe. ââ¬ÅGod fixed the Earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever,'' says one Bible verse contradicted by Galileo's pioneering notion that the Earth spins daily on its axis and makes an annual journey around the sun.
Unable to comprehend a non-literal reading of Scripture, according to the commission, the judges feared that if Galileo's ideas were taught, they would undermine Catholic tradition at a time when it was under attack by Protestant reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin.
ââ¬ÅThis subjective error of judgment, so clear to us today, led them to a disciplinary measure from which Galileo `had much to suffer.' These mistakes must be frankly recognized, as you, Holy Father, have requested,'' Cardinal Paul Poupard, the commission chairman, told the pope.
Tried on ââ¬Åvehement suspicion of heresy,'' Galileo was forced to swear that he ââ¬Åabjured, cursed and detested'' the errors of his work, which extended the findings of the Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus that the Earth moves. Legend insists that as he finished his abject, life-saving confession of his errors to the black-cowled Inquisitors, Galileo muttered under his breath: ââ¬ÅNevertheless, it does move.''
The case was important to him, John Paul said Saturday, because over the centuries it had become ââ¬Åthe symbol of the church's supposed rejection of scientific progress, or of `dogmatic' obscurantism opposed to the free search for truth.''
Galileo's condemnation, John Paul lamented, had led many scientists to conclude that there was ââ¬Åan incompatibility between the spirit of science and its rules of research on the one hand, and the Christian faith on the other.''
ââ¬ÅA tragic mutual incomprehension has been interpreted as the reflection of a fundamental opposition between science and faith. The clarifications furnished by recent historical studies enable us to state that this sad misunderstanding now belongs to the past,'' the pope said. **
2003-06-13 04:54 | User Profile
Me: Why was Mary Magdalene called BY JESUS The Apostle of Apostles? How does that square with the picture the Church paints of her? Eric: I don't know where that quote comes from. I'd appreciate a source. I really don't know what you mean when you say this:
The book is down in the car; I ââ¬Ëll try to get this answered tomorrow; however, in the meantime:
The Catholics STILL seemingly call her such:
Litany to Saint Mary Magdalen Feastday: July 22nd. ... Last at the Cross of Jesus, first at His tomb, Thou who wast the first to see Jesus risen, Whose forehead was sanctified by the touch of thy risen Master, Apostle of apostles, Who didst choose the "better part", .... [url=http://catholicyouth.freeservers.com/litanies/saints/mary_magdalen.htm]http://catholicyouth.freeservers.com/litan...ry_magdalen.htm[/url]
The pagans and Gnostics remember:
** It would seem self-evident to me that if any religion was secure in its belief that it possessed an insight into the truth regarding man and his place in the scheme of things, it would be anxious for all the documentation in its possession to be available to the faithful, in order to more completely spread the word. The Christian Church not only has failed to do this, it has actually hidden, suppressed and destroyed writings contempary with the life of its central character. The Church's entire reason for existing actually owes more to its use of reigns of terror and violence than any displays of written "truth".
We are consistently told, against all the prevailing evidence, that Jesus was the Son Of God, born of a virgin, John the Baptist was his forerunner and inferior, and Mary Magdelene was some woman of less than exemplary morals whom Jesus converted. However, careful reading of the books and gospels censored by the Church in the fourth century gives a far more complete story of the life of Jesus than the Church appears comfortable with its flock being aware of. Surely, by telling the faithful the complete story would make their hero a far more complete and believable character than is gained by them hiding his life and facts.
The suppressed writings are by and about some of the most important characters in the New Testament, and show an equal amount of belief and devotion as the writings that were included, yet they were kept from the flock by the priests and learned men of the day. Is it merely a coincidence that most of the excised works show beyond reasonable doubt the heavy Egyptian influence in Christianity? That the lives of Mary, Joseph, and indeed, Jesus himself are not as we have been led to believe?
In fact, not only is the Church as we know it the corrupted teachings of two other people, it would appear from careful reading of the stories of the movement's main protagonists, namely Jesus, John the Baptist, and Simon Magus, that Christianity is not even Christian! The one common element between all three characters is that all were schooled in Alexandria, home at the time to the biggest library in the known world. All are mentioned as spending a large proportion of their lives in Egypt, yet the New Testament mentions Alexandria only once, and Egypt pretty much only in passing. Why? It is certain that Jesus' own contemporaries accepted him as an Egyptian adept, a sentiment echoed in the Jewish Talmud. He was handed to Pilate with the words that he was "a doer of evil". Under Roman law, this had only one meaning: a sorcerer.
Rumour circulated during Jesus' own time that he had worked "black magic" on the spirit of John the Baptist, and scholastic work has shown that at the least Herod Antipas believed this to be true. If Jesus actually did attempt these means to gain control of John's movement, then the action would by definition be Sethian, and as an Osirian initiate, Jesus would be aware of Set and his religion by neccessity. The Bible is full of hints as to Jesus' true religious background: as one example, Jesus' often quoted "come unto me, all ye who are heavily laden, and I shall refresh ye" are in fact from a scripture of Isis. Even the concept of communion was Osirian. Abundant scholastic evidence supports this view of Jesus and his life, and readers are encouraged to seek it out for themselves. It is only conditioning that makes us accept a story that is obviously flawed without questioning.
Could it be that Christianity as we know it now is not in fact the literal words of Christ but the teachings of Peter and Paul, both mysoginists, and that the Roman Church's disdain for, and refusal to ordain women, even now, is both a reflection of this, and a corruption of Jesus' own recognition of the validity of Egyptian religious principles? Simon Peter, the founder of the Church Of Rome, hated Mary Magdelene, as he hated all women. This in spite of the fact that his idol, Jesus himself, described her as "the apostle of apostles". While we will never know now exactly what Mary preached, one thing was for sure... it was NOT Christianity. If this fact is viewed, however, in the light of Jesus' praise for her and her attempts to rally the apostles after the crucifixion, it becomes certain that Jesus had the same beliefs. No wonder the Church censored the early writings so virulently. In fact, the only feasible reason for the Church to have done this is that the theories advanced on this site are probably correct in the main, with the added bonus of keeping the reigns of secular power firmly in its own grasp. ... From: [url=http://paganritual.alphalink.com.au/cens.htm]http://paganritual.alphalink.com.au/cens.htm[/url]**
Oh yeah, and the phrase: "They have taken my Lord, and I do not know, where they have put Him." is what Isis said when Osiris had been killed and dismembered by Set. It was ritual language in Egyptian religion long before Mary Magdalene said it. Oh, and it took Isis three days to find (almost) all the body parts of Osiris, and thus the Egyptian mystery schools/Isian religion teaching of resurrection after three days... Sound like any other religion you know?!
2003-06-13 06:31 | User Profile
I'm reading "Men Among the Ruins" by Julius Evola, "Hitler's Army" by Omar Bartov and some collected essays by Edmund Burke. PaleoconAvatar's reference to the latter in one of his posts prompted me to track it down. Thanx. :th:
2003-06-13 13:58 | User Profile
**We are consistently told, against all the prevailing evidence, that Jesus was the Son Of God, born of a virgin, John the Baptist was his forerunner and inferior, and Mary Magdelene was some woman of less than exemplary morals whom Jesus converted. **
What prevailing evidence? Do you mean the rational? Yes, religion is irrational. So what? And what prevailing evidence is there that John wasn't his forerunner - whatever the hell foreunner is supposed to mean in this context. John was Jesus's older cousin by less than a year. Inferior is perjorative, isn't it?
What prevailing evidence is there that Mary M. was otherwise than depicted in the Gospels? Show it to me. The burden of proof is on you. I demand to see it.
The suppressed writings are by and about some of the most important characters in the New Testament, and show an equal amount of belief and devotion as the writings that were included, yet they were kept from the flock by the priests and learned men of the day
'Suppressed"! I've read them. They are widely available. The ancients showed good judgment in excluding them from the canon. Some are patently absurd, others libelous of the young Jesus. They make the Book of Moroni look well written.
Could it be that Christianity as we know it now is not in fact the literal words of Christ but the teachings of Peter and Paul, both mysoginists, and that the Roman Church's disdain for, and refusal to ordain women, even now, is both a reflection of this, and a corruption of Jesus' own recognition of the validity of Egyptian religious principles? Simon Peter, the founder of the Church Of Rome, hated Mary Magdelene, as he hated all women.
FYI - Peter was married. His wife was martyred by Nero shortly before Peter himself. When she was being lead into the coliseum to her death Peter is said to have shouted endearments and encouragement to her as she passed his cell.
Some freakin misogynist!
2003-06-14 04:02 | User Profile
Conquest of a Continent by Madison Grant, I will probably begin another as well.
2003-06-15 05:18 | User Profile
*Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Jun 11 2003, 23:15 * **
I also started Revolt Against the Modern World by Julius Evola. I can't say that I'm terribly impressed with either the content or the style at this point...it reminds me a bit of Weininger in some ways. **
What a coincidence! I am also reading that Evola's book
2003-06-16 22:14 | User Profile
"Pinochet: The Biography" Tome 1/2 Gonzalo Vial (Former Minister in the Pinochet Government)
2003-06-17 19:12 | User Profile
The Dispossessed Majority, by Wilmot Robertson. This book comes recommended by Sam Francis, Jared Taylor and others as a classic. Which it is, though Robertson does plenty of "naming the Jew" throughout, making you wonder how much Messrs. Francis and Taylor really know.
It's tough to find a new copy, but I found a good used hardback through amazon.com. Everyone on OD should read this book. Robertson is wide-ranging in his description of how the Dispossession came about, and is an obviously well-educated man.
2003-06-23 15:38 | User Profile
[u]A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times[/u] by Dr. Ken Riddlebarger
An excellent presentation of historic Protestant eschatology from the Dutch Reformed position. Have a friend or acquaintance that is a pre-millennial dispensationalist? Then get this book in their hands. Riddlebarger makes his critiques and points with charity and love.
2003-06-23 18:32 | User Profile
Smokehouse Ham, Spoon Bread, & Scuppernong Wine: The Folklore and Art of Southern Appalachian Cooking by Joseph Earl Dabney
At Amazon [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1888952938/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/102-1158467-4814568?v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews]here.[/url]
"A scrumptious slice of Smoky Mountain and Blue Ridge hill country folklore, handed down from Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland, Germany, and the Cherokee Nation, this book covers the art, foods, blessings, and legends of the people of this fascinating region."
Winner of the James Beard Award- Cookbook of the Year in 1999.
It's a cookbook and much more.
It's the first thing I open up most Saturday mornings, when the chef de chez Weisbrot takes over.
2003-06-23 19:38 | User Profile
What I am reading now: "The Physical Anthropology and Spiritualism of the La Tene Culture" by Arn Osterdahl, "The Historical Companion to House Brewing" by Clive La Pensee, "The Design and Dynamics of High Performance Suspension Dynamics" by P.K. Wright. What Recently finished reading "Organic Democracy and National Syndicalism: Selected Texts of Antonio Sardindha" Antonio Sardindha.
2003-07-03 06:24 | User Profile
Hey, Dubeaux -- long time no see; I remember you from the old TownHall. Welcome.
2003-07-03 14:51 | User Profile
Think & Grow Rich
by Napoleon Hill
-Jay
2003-07-03 15:29 | User Profile
**Which was fine with Galileo, who was devout and a widower and whose brother was a Bishop, I believe. **
It's good to see someone attempting to lay this baseless calumny to rest. You should also have added that it was exceedingly unlikely for the Church of Rome to have it in for Galileo as not only was Galileo's best friend the Pope (the preceding vicar of Christ, not the one then sitting), but, more importantly, Galileo was the Pope's best friend. In short, he was in with the Vatican crowd. Also, the geocentric theory that the presumably fundamentalist Church of Rome was wrongheadedly buttressing was not a Christian theory but a pagan theory promulgated by a preeminent Egyptian (i.e., Greek Aryan) astronomer long before the church ascended to power. The Church of Rome then graciously and rightfully accepted it for it was considered conventional truth at that time (i.e., several centuries before the Galileo affair) by the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
It must also be mentioned that Galileo attempted to get his pal the Pope to suppress his rivals (it must come as a shock to all you Galileo groupies that he wasn't exactly Mr. Free Speech and Vigorous Exchange of Ideas) which the Bishop of Rome prudently refused to do as this was a temporal matter. The G-man had even less success with the succeeding popester, as you all know.
I'm certainly no fan of the organized votaries of The Big Sky Jew, Roman, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, or otherwise, but come on, can we give the anti Catholic BS a rest? Don't worry, the Jew Boys will more than pick up the slack.
2003-07-03 16:44 | User Profile
"Homeland" by Nick Ryan, ISBN 1 84108 465 5
www.mainstreampublishing.com
Ryan is a British journalist who managed to insinuate himself into many nationalist organizations in Europe and the US, including the BNP, Vlaams Blok, FN, NPD, CoCC, WCOTC etc etc. over a period of several years. Apparently he did this under the aegis of the Searchlight magazine, a well-known UK-based antifa
The book is well-written and surprisingly even-handed, although his remarks on some of the individuals involved like the Sargent Bros, Matt Hale, Pat Buchanan and others leave one in no doubt about his view of their personal qualities.
Homeland is similar in scope to "Them", by another British journalist, Jon Ronson, but much better.
Recommended.
2003-07-03 16:53 | User Profile
I'm halfway through Frank Meyer's "In Defense of Freedom," wherein Meyer attempts to "fuse" traditionalist conservatism and libertarianism. I've also begun reading "Man in the Modern World" by Karl Jaspers.
2003-07-14 17:19 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Dan Dare@Jul 3 2003, 16:44 * ** ... Homeland is similar in scope to "Them", by another British journalist, Jon Ronson, but much better. **
Dan, I saw one of the Ron Jonson TV programmes related to that book. It stuck in my mind because of the following piece of Canadian ADL paranoia directed at David Icke (as put to him by Jonson): 'When you say you don't mean that the lizards that secretly run the world refers to Jews, some people say it's a codeword that means that you do.'