← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Eendracht Maakt Mag
Thread ID: 7082 | Posts: 53 | Started: 2003-06-02
2003-06-02 22:42 | User Profile
I believe that one of the biggest problems with American White Nationalism is the inability of the entire WN movement to agree on who is white and who isn't. There are the "Pan-Arayn" WNs who view all Europeans as "white", and thus acceptabl, but equally, if not more numerous, are "neo-Nordicsts" or "Nordishists" inspired by the writings of Richard McCulloch (most importantly, [url=http://htt://www.racialcompact.com]The Racial Compact[/url]).
An interesting survey done by the University of Dayton.
[url=http://academic.udayton.edu/race/surveys/opinion02.asp]http://academic.udayton.edu/race/surveys/opinion02.asp[/url]
Percent who marked "Yes" about whiteness
British 90.3
German 90.2
Dutch 89.0
Swedes 87.7
Polish 86.1
Russian 82.9
Canadian 80.4
Belgians 76.0
Czechoslovak 72.0
Ukranians 70.2
Romanian 66.9
Italians 64.1
Albanian 50.4
Latvian 43.9
Spaniards 40.0
Israelis 33.4
Chileans 15.6
Iranians 14.5
Algerians 13.7
Egyptians 13.0
American Indian 9.6
Arabs 9.3
Cubans 9.0
Moroccans 8.7
Japanese 8.5
Puerto Rican 7.0
Vietnamese 6.4
Congolese 5.0
Kenyans 3.1
Nigerians 2.6
2003-06-02 23:10 | User Profile
When the poll results left Europe and votes for the Turd Worlders as white received a yes response the poll lost integrity with me. Either the university students are just plain dumb or they're getting a good chortle after they answer the poll.
2003-06-03 00:24 | User Profile
Originally posted by Cracker of the Whip@Jun 2 2003, 17:10 ** When the poll results left Europe and votes for the Turd Worlders as white received a yes response the poll lost integrity with me. Either the university students are just plain dumb or they're getting a good chortle after they answer the poll. **
I don't know. What would your votes have been? I know many self-described WNs who do not consider anyone hailing from an area south of France as white.
2003-06-03 01:32 | User Profile
Itââ¬â¢s funny how people supposedly canââ¬â¢t detect who is White. Nobody has any trouble discerning a Black or Oriental. The real question is, ââ¬ÅHow do you place the mongrels?ââ¬Â Itââ¬â¢s the mongrels that resemble the European traits over the other racial admixtures that confuse people. When the time comes the groups will separate naturally because they know who they are and/or some cleansing of the genetic pool will occur.
2003-06-03 04:37 | User Profile
****Latvian
43.9****
????
Right, it had to be a joke.
On the serious side I have been among North African Berbers whom I would not hesitate to call white. I don't mean all Berbers by a long shot, but the ones who lived up in the Atlas Mountains probably had their gene pool protected by isolation; whatever the reason, they look and behave white and at least one of the Berber girls I knew had the brightest blue eyes I've ever seen.
Genes + behavior = white at this point. In the glorious days before wiggers it was easier to discuss this subject.
One example of that: I worked with Greek DPs years ago and these guys were quite dark. On the other hand they were disciplined and honorable and their values were quite superior. Their shade was not appreciably different from the average wetback but everything else about them -- general habits, ethics, all that -- was miles away from the Mestizos.
Another note: Having been part of three nationalist groups at one time or another, I've noticed that Italians (at least here on the Great Lakes) tend to be the most racially aware of European-Americans. I don't know why it is, but it is.
2003-06-03 04:49 | User Profile
ragnar- I doubt that the fact that 43% of the respondents thought that Latvians were white indicates a joke. Obviously, anyone who knows the slightest thing about Latvia knows that Latvians are white; but I suspect that only 43% of the respondents had ever heard of Latvia, and the the other 57% probably assumed it was in Africa or South America. This, of course, represents, relatively speaking, an intelligent group of respondents (and I would emphasize the word 'relatively'), as I would estimate that 90% of random Americans who can tell you every single character of Seinfeld could not spell the word Latvia, much less identify the race of its people.
2003-06-03 04:50 | User Profile
Another note: Having been part of three nationalist groups at one time or another, I've noticed that Italians (at least here on the Great Lakes) tend to be the most racially aware of European-Americans. I don't know why it is, but it is.
That's interesting. I'm half-Italian, half-Irish. I don't really cling to the identity of either sub-group very strongly, which irritates my father since he thinks that I've shirked my duty since I'm not that interested in Italian food recipes that have been passed down in the family, etc. I told him to just make sure they're written down so I can look them up if I want to cook something--not much "hands on" enthusiasm on my part. The Irish side of my family isn't that fanatical about their Irishness, although my mother and her parents did visit Ireland once, like 30-plus years ago.
I basically have identity consciousness as a "White American male." By the time I was in high school I pretty much realized that those who occupy that demographic--my demographic--have a set of interests and a set of enemies whether we like it or not. The goody-two-shoes of the world can talk all they want about how they "take the moral high ground" and claim they're "individualists," but it doesn't change the fact that "THEY" are gunning for us, and that we're headed for eventual debasement and extinction unless we stop being suckers.
2003-06-03 22:12 | User Profile
Yeah, obviously a few of them are wiseguy responses. I'm sure no one seriously believes that Nigerians or Kenyans are White.
The mongrel question is one that will always get people worked up. When does someone's non-White ancestry become insignificant? (and please, I'm not trying to get that sort of discission started.. I'm just making the point.) If Whites can't even agree on who we are, we don't stand a chance at any sort of racial unification.
We need to make people that understand that what one looks like is not always going to be a guaranteed way to determine Whiteness - skin color is a feature of race, but it does not actually determine race.
2003-06-03 22:18 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rumblestrip@Jun 3 2003, 16:12 **Yeah, obviously a few of them are wiseguy responses. I'm sure no one seriously believes that Nigerians or Kenyans are White. **
LOL, you'd be surprsied. The ingorance of the average American Joe Sixpack is astounding (no offense to all the intelligent, knowledgeable Americans out there).
The mongrel question is one that will always get people worked up. When does someone's non-White ancestry become insignificant? (and please, I'm not trying to get that sort of discission started.. I'm just making the point.) If Whites can't even agree on who we are, we don't stand a chance at any sort of racial unification.
I agree. In fact this question is especially significant, since a large (I cannot overemphasize this) number of Europeans have slight Mongoloid ancestry. And contrary to the popular belief, this isn't limited to Russia and the Slavic countries-there are large areas in Germany, Finland and Sweden where phenotypes are obviously Uralolappinoid influenced. Some people of course, are prepared to disown anyone with a drop of non-white blood: I got banned from a certain forum for telling a moderator, who had a habit of calling Russians "muds" supposedly because of the "tons" (LOL) of Mongoloid ancestry that they have, that she hereself probably has Uralic genemarkers, being part Finnish and part East German.
2003-06-03 22:20 | User Profile
Originally posted by Phillip Augustus@Jun 2 2003, 22:49 ** ragnar- I doubt that the fact that 43% of the respondents thought that Latvians were white indicates a joke. Obviously, anyone who knows the slightest thing about Latvia knows that Latvians are white; but I suspect that only 43% of the respondents had ever heard of Latvia, and the the other 57% probably assumed it was in Africa or South America. This, of course, represents, relatively speaking, an intelligent group of respondents (and I would emphasize the word 'relatively'), as I would estimate that 90% of random Americans who can tell you every single character of Seinfeld could not spell the word Latvia, much less identify the race of its people. **
The ignorance of the average American is astounding. Latvians are actually about as blonde as Swedes, btw.
2003-06-04 05:08 | User Profile
With regard to mongrels, another thing to consider aside from just the proportions of one blood to another is the dominance of each part. That is, someone who's 1/8 black is still a mulatto in appearance and usually behavior in all cases I've seen, but I've known two 1/4 japanese who you would swear are white. I've also known several 1/4 jews, most of whom are very jewish still.
White genes seem (at least to my experience; I haven't done any genetic testing) to be more or less on-par with mongoloid genes when it comes to dominance, but black genes are quite dominant.
So I would tend to go with the genes + behavior criteria as well. Of course not everyone will agree with this, so to them I just propose a compromise: more white is better than less white; Spaniards and Greeks are infinitely better than mestizos. Start with that and the world will be a much better place.
2003-06-04 06:08 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 2 2003, 16:42 **
An interesting survey done by the University of Dayton.
[url=http://academic.udayton.edu/race/surveys/opinion02.asp]http://academic.udayton.edu/race/surveys/opinion02.asp[/url]
**Percent who marked "Yes" about whiteness
Italians 64.1
Albanian 50.4
Latvian 43.9
Spaniards 40.0
somebody that has never seen to a Spanish in his life..is not qualified to talk about the whiteness of the Spaniards.
2003-06-04 17:06 | User Profile
Originally posted by Madrid burns@Jun 4 2003, 00:08 ** somebody that has never seen to a Spanish in his life..is not qualified to talk about the whiteness of the Spaniards. **
I think it might be the same morons who marked Latvians as non-white.
2003-06-04 18:29 | User Profile
A lot of this hemming and hawwing in my opinion is surely the product of the Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Germanics who believe they are more " white " than the southern Europeans, as has been discussed.. but indeed the ancient wars and spoils thereof created a mixing.. what about the tanning factor.. ever notice that some whites tan well, and others just burn red ? Some in my family that are full Italian can't tan, have light blue/green eyes and light hair.. this is not the American view of the typical greaseball olive-skinned Sicilian Mobster.. To actually trace the genetic pool, one has to go so far into the past that the current nationalities we use to identify each other are not even remotely relevant. To this day nobody can correctly identify the precise genetic make-up of the ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Etruscans, Hebrews and Greeks. ( and neo-scientifically proved Aryans ) If ancient intelligence in writing, mathematics, architecture and metal-working is a standard, the Germanics and Anglos and Nordics are far less impressive in antiquity. Some questions may never be answered.. but it is absurd to draw type of Mason-Dixon line and say that's a basis, based upon even remotely modern demographics and ethnic nationalities concerning the matter of white racial purity.
2003-06-04 19:24 | User Profile
Originally posted by Drakmal@Jun 4 2003, 01:08 **With regard to mongrels, another thing to consider aside from just the proportions of one blood to another is the dominance of each part. That is, someone who's 1/8 black is still a mulatto in appearance and usually behavior in all cases I've seen, but I've known two 1/4 japanese who you would swear are white. I've also known several 1/4 jews, most of whom are very jewish still.
White genes seem (at least to my experience; I haven't done any genetic testing) to be more or less on-par with mongoloid genes when it comes to dominance, but black genes are quite dominant.
So I would tend to go with the genes + behavior criteria as well. Of course not everyone will agree with this, so to them I just propose a compromise: more white is better than less white; Spaniards and Greeks are infinitely better than mestizos. Start with that and the world will be a much better place.**
White genes seem (at least to my experience; I haven't done any genetic testing) to be more or less on-par with mongoloid genes when it comes to dominance, but black genes are quite dominant.
Quite true. A touch of the tar brush is rather blatant and can be seen for a number of generations. In contrast, even 1/2 White and 1/2 Asian mixtures look White to me until they tell me they're half-Asian. Once they say it, then it's like, "Oh, yeah, I can see that now." It can be subtle sometimes. Other times it's pretty obvious they're half Asian, as in the case of Kristin Kreuk who's an actor on Smallville, and is half Dutch and half Chinese:
[img]http://www.kristinkreuk.cc/kknet/gallery/various/images/kristinkreuk-smallville_promo11_smallvilletorch.jpg[/img]
But I never knew that the kid that played "Zack" on Saved by the Bell (and is now on NYPD Blue) was half Dutch and half Indonesian. I was pretty surprised:
[url=http://www.teenidols4you.com/blink.php?p=Actors/mpg&f=gosselaar062.jpg]Pic linked here since dynamic .php webpages can't be linked w/ OD's software[/url]
Maybe I have a malfunctioning "Asian-dar" for detecting that sort of thing :lol:
2003-06-04 19:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@Jun 4 2003, 12:24 ** Maybe I have a malfunctioning "Asian-dar" for detecting that sort of thing :lol: **
You must be a potential race-mixer :lol:
2003-06-04 19:33 | User Profile
**I've noticed that Italians (at least here on the Great Lakes) tend to be the most racially aware of European-Americans. **
Maybe because they're unsure of their Whiteness. Remember that SNL skit with the Italians and Chris Rock on the Dating Game? Hilarious.
It's a huge topic. Ygg says: "those who self-identify as White are White, unless it can be shown that they work against the interests of Whites."
There's a lot to that. Self-identification is part and parcel of what inspires natural human movement across the racial Serengeti. Observe now as the White family leaves Yonkers, making their way farther upstate. Once the group is big and self-indentified enough, they coalesce, and must be (in an ideal system) allowed to exclude. In other words, circular as it may sound, Whites decide who's White.
2003-06-04 19:35 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jun 4 2003, 15:30 ** > Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@Jun 4 2003, 12:24 ** Maybe I have a malfunctioning "Asian-dar" for detecting that sort of thing :lol: **
You must be a potential race-mixer :lol: **
Nah. I'm aware that lots of White guys, even racially conscious ones, are into Asian women. I'm not, though, and even if I do have trouble sometimes seeing it, I'd find out her heritage soon enough. I'm not the kind to leap before I look.
2003-06-04 19:39 | User Profile
I think accepting those who self-identify themselves as white and who show themselves to think as whites is a good strategy. That was the way how Russian Empire absorbed many smaller nationalities with little bloodshed, and whoever chose to become Orthodox Christian was considered Russian for all intents and purposes. There are analogs of the American Indians in Russia, those who live across the Bering Straits from Alaska, and who in Russia have Russian names, Russian customs, intermarried and drink just as much vodka :lol: Unlike American Indians in the US living in reservations. I am not suggesting that the standards for being white should be relaxed to the degree that the people promoting "there is no white race" suggest, only that if there are people willing to become whites and who appear to be sincere, should be accepted into the extended family.
2003-06-04 20:05 | User Profile
**I think accepting those who self-identify themselves as white and who show themselves to think as whites is a good strategy. That was the way how Russian Empire absorbed many smaller nationalities with little bloodshed, and whoever chose to become Orthodox Christian was considered Russian for all intents and purposes. **
That's the usual way how nations are created. Most nations develop out of a tribal amalgation, this even goes for the ethnocentric jews. I think it is pretty rare that one can say that a nation is monoracial. The Dutch are Frisian and Frankish, the Suiss Raetoroman Allemanian, the English Anglosaxon Celtic etc.
2003-06-04 20:31 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jun 4 2003, 13:39 I think accepting those who self-identify themselves as white and who show themselves to think as whites is a good strategy.
But they must look white too, right?
** That was the way how Russian Empire absorbed many smaller nationalities with little bloodshed, and whoever chose to become Orthodox Christian was considered Russian for all intents and purposes. **
Well, that's not completely accurate. Many Finno-Ugric nationalities, like Karelians, Mordvins and Chuvashis who are Orthodox maintain their language and customs and are not considered Russian (at least by most Russians I know, save for some ZOG brainwashed "Eurasianists" who are eager to make Russia into a metis nation). In the Vytka-Kama region, there has been a history of metisization between Nordic Slavs and Finno-Ugric East Baltic/Uralic aboriginals, so the population of that area is probably somehting like 1/2 Slavic and 1/2 Finno-Ugric. These people, who belong to the sub-Uralic racial group are considered Russian (and they are, for all intents and purposes Nordeuropids), but I am not aware of any Finno-Ugric group having assimilated into the Russian genepool without first having acquired significant Slavic admixture.
There are analogs of the American Indians in Russia, those who live across the Bering Straits from Alaska, and who in Russia have Russian names, Russian customs, intermarried and drink just as much vodkaÃÂ :lol:
I've never heard of those people. I know of a small group of metis Aleutian Islanders who have Russian last names, but I don't consider them Russian.
Unlike American Indians in the US living in reservations. I am not suggesting that the standards for being white should be relaxed to the degree that the people promoting "there is no white race" suggest, only that if there are people willing to become whites and who appear to be sincere, should be accepted into the extended family.
Of course, the most obvious problem with your idea is that the interpretation of who should be accepted and who shouldn't is completely arbitrary. Should negroes and mualttoes who want to be white (and those do exist) be accepted into the mainstream? What about full-blooded Mongoloids with simmilar aspirations? I draw the line at people of East Baltic type. If you look/are any more mixed than that, you are, in my opinion, unacceptable for assimlation.
2003-06-04 20:33 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jun 4 2003, 13:30 ** > Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@Jun 4 2003, 12:24 ** Maybe I have a malfunctioning "Asian-dar" for detecting that sort of thing :lol: **
You must be a potential race-mixer :lol: **
I'll admit it, in the case of the girl to whose picture was just linked. She can pass for white, and she's hot. I'd not kick her out of bed, that's for sure. The multicultis at LF should have used her photo instead of some of the ugly Nigerian for an example of beautiful non-whites.
2003-06-04 21:05 | User Profile
Prodigy Son,
I was mostly talking about who should be considered as allies and building a dominating culture in a country. Of course, one pre-requisite is that the people who determine the character of the nation should be in majority. The US may be beyond this point after having been flooded with third-worlders and their institutions being yanked under them and subverted. I may not be as extreme as some in racialist sentiment, but I think that the condition that one must think like a white would eliminate the undesirables pretty much.
2003-06-04 21:06 | User Profile
Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Jun 4 2003, 13:53 ** > Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 17:06 ** > Originally posted by Madrid burns@Jun 4 2003, 00:08 ** somebody that has never seen to a Spanish in his life..is not qualified to talk about the whiteness of the Spaniards. **
I think it might be the same morons who marked Latvians as non-white. **
Your average college student today can barely find the US on an unmarked map, never mind Latvia. "Latvia" sounds exotic to them, so they assume that the population isn't white. They probably think it's somewhere in Southeast Asia.
In short, the survey that you cite is absolutely useless. **
I wonder if, given the multiple-choice exam to place a list of countries on the continents, the result would be pretty much random and the guesses based on "how the country's name sounds like" and not on anything else.
2003-06-04 21:13 | User Profile
But they must look white too, right?
Sure. This of course presents a problem with juden, so many of whom can pass. The problem with Jews is that even "assimilated" ones often go about the business of destabilizing Gentile society: filing their lawsuits, peddling their filth, pushing their non-racial ideologies and movements. If it's not one thing, it's another. A healthy White society shouldn't obsess over race, but it must be a topic of concern. Otherwise, the whole thing slides into... 21st Century America. This would present a situation in which someone who insisted he was White would have to be told that he's not.
The Dutch/Asian chick is pretty hot. But crikes, so are all-White women! The mature White nationalist realizes beauty where it lives but stays on guard for the race.
2003-06-04 21:14 | User Profile
I don't think that allowing everyone who self-identifies as white to assimilate is a good idea.
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=8160]This guy[/url] for example self-identified as white.
2003-06-04 21:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by Hugh Lincoln@Jun 4 2003, 15:13 ** > But they must look white too, right?
Sure. This of course presents a problem with juden, so many of whom can pass. The problem with Jews is that even "assimilated" ones often go about the business of destabilizing Gentile society: filing their lawsuits, peddling their filth, pushing their non-racial ideologies and movements. If it's not one thing, it's another. A healthy White society shouldn't obsess over race, but it must be a topic of concern. Otherwise, the whole thing slides into... 21st Century America. This would present a situation in which someone who insisted he was White would have to be told that he's not.
The Dutch/Asian chick is pretty hot. But crikes, so are all-White women! The mature White nationalist realizes beauty where it lives but stays on guard for the race. **
I agree. Btw, she is wearing contacts in that picture (her eyes are naturally hazel).
2003-06-04 22:27 | User Profile
Originally posted by Phillip Augustus@Jun 4 2003, 16:33 > Originally posted by madrussian@Jun 4 2003, 13:30 ** > Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@Jun 4 2003, 12:24 ** Maybe I have a malfunctioning "Asian-dar" for detecting that sort of thing :lol: **
You must be a potential race-mixer :lol: **
I'll admit it, in the case of the girl to whose picture was just linked. She can pass for white, and she's hot. I'd not kick her out of bed, that's for sure. The multicultis at LF should have used her photo instead of some of the ugly Nigerian for an example of beautiful non-whites.**
She's on the WB network. The WB is well known for showcasing hot young actresses.
You wouldn't kick her out of bed...but would you bear children with her? That question gets more at the bottom line, because children are what bring forth the past forward into the future and maintain the continuity of our people, our biological attributes, our traditions, and the like. I couldn't bring myself to do it since I'd have to look at myself in the mirror and see that when the rubber hit the road, I was the one that derailed the efforts of all those who came before me. I'd be the one who "colored outside the lines."
There are those who say they have no problem with interracial sexual relations, even ones that produce children, and they justify it on the grounds that they "love" the person, are attracted to her physically, are attracted to her personality, and so on. That's all fine and dandy on the level of the individual, but it wouldn't change the fact that if I indulged in my personal feelings, I'd be making that decision for all those who came before me in the generational line and all those who will come after me. A lot of people in that generational chain in the past thought that their heritage was worth passing on intact, and I'd be overruling their decision and their efforts and struggles. And my mixed-race children might feel cheated, too, since they'd feel more "generic" than "specific," caught in some sort of in-between world between two quite divergent ancestral lines. Of course, they might be inclined to adopt the multiracial world view, out of self-esteem and an urge to justify their existence, but I still would have taken away their potential option of being White by my act. I'd feel like I let a lot of people down.
But we live in a society in which people my age don't care about things like that anymore. I feel like that's a loss, not "progress" like the multicults say.
2003-06-04 22:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by Hugh Lincoln@Jun 4 2003, 15:13 ** > But they must look white too, right?
Sure. This of course presents a problem with juden, so many of whom can pass. **
[QUOTE]
That's surely true for the vast majority, but I can tell you for a fact that I can identify a Jew from a White with 90 % efficacy.. no word of a lie.. I have what you would call visual, facial Jew-dar.
2003-06-04 22:34 | User Profile
I understand your point, and certainly don't advocate miscegenation as a general rule, though I am far less agitated about white-Asian miscegenation, much less white-1/2 Asian and 1/2 white miscegenation) than i am other forms of it (specifically, mudsharkery). on the other hand, in the case of that girl, she can basically pass for white and if I had children with her, they would probably be indistinguishable from other whites. Not ideal, perhaps, but I am a bit skeptical of notions of 'racial purity', especially considering that a large percentage of American whites have some Indian blood and large numbers of Eastern Europeans have some Turk blood, etc.
But you may be underestimating the amount of people your age who feel differently than you do. I am just a few years older than you (early 30's) and many of my friends are about your age. They as a general rule don't completely buy into the multiculit myth (for example, many of them refer to MTV as NTV, etc).
2003-06-04 22:36 | User Profile
Originally posted by Phillip Augustus@Jun 4 2003, 16:34 ** large numbers of Eastern Europeans have some Turk blood, etc. **
What Eastern Europeans are you talking about, and what do you mean by "Turk"?
2003-06-04 22:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 17:36 ** What Eastern Europeans are you talking about, and what do you mean by "Turk"? **
What do you mean by "what do you mean?"
<_<
I think this could be a never-ending topic.
2003-06-04 22:44 | User Profile
Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Jun 4 2003, 16:40 ** > Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 17:36 ** What Eastern Europeans are you talking about, and what do you mean by "Turk"? **
What do you mean by "what do you mean?"
<_<
I think this could be a never-ending topic. **
OK. Just to clarify things:
Russians have some Finno-Ugric blood.
Some Hungarians and Ukrainians of the Dnepropetrovsk region have absorbed a Turkic strain.
There is a large difference between Turanid Turks and East Baltic Ugro-Finns.
2003-06-04 22:47 | User Profile
Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Jun 4 2003, 16:40 ** I think this could be a never-ending topic. **
Well, we want to arrive at some sort of concensus, don't we :D ?
2003-06-04 22:48 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 16:36 ** > Originally posted by Phillip Augustus@Jun 4 2003, 16:34 ** large numbers of Eastern Europeans have some Turk blood, etc. **
What Eastern Europeans are you talking about, and what do you mean by "Turk"? **
Some Eastern Europeans in the Balkans probably have some degree of Turkish ancestry, but I would certainly still call them white.
2003-06-04 22:51 | User Profile
Round and a round and a round we go Where it's all headed, nobody knows
It's a ball of confusion. Surely a cultural delineation would be much easier.
2003-06-04 22:52 | User Profile
Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Jun 4 2003, 16:51 ** Round and a round and a round we go Where it's all headed, nobody knows
It's a ball of confusion. Surely a cultural delineation would be much easier. **
Hey if you have one, I am all ears.
2003-06-04 22:54 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 17:52 ** Hey if you have one, I am all ears. **
Until I hear anything better, I'll go with AntiYuppie's pre-1492 thing.
2003-06-04 22:59 | User Profile
Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Jun 4 2003, 14:53 ** In short, the survey that you cite is absolutely useless. **
Its useless for figuring out who is white and who isn't, but that's not its purpose. Its supposed to show just how different peoples' opinions are on who is white and who isn't.
2003-06-04 23:05 | User Profile
Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Jun 4 2003, 16:54 ** Until I hear anything better, I'll go with AntiYuppie's pre-1492 thing. **
Are you saying that us Russkies aren't white, Tex? :o
And btw, technically the definition AntiYuppie cited was for "the West" not "white". One could make the argument that the two terms are equivalent, though.
2003-06-04 23:12 | User Profile
Originally posted by Prodigal Son@Jun 4 2003, 18:05 ** Are you saying that us Russkies aren't white, Tex? :o
And btw, technically the definition AntiYuppie cited was for "the West" not "white". **
You're right, it was on the West topic thread. Sorry about that.
But no, Russians are most certainly white. Dostoevsky, for example, is one of the greatest Western writers of all time.
But with that, I'm out of this one as like I said, it could go on forever. :blink:
2003-06-04 23:30 | User Profile
I feel the same as Texas-J and I almost posted that I am proud to be a 90 % beagle who will walk onto your front lawn and sniff your Fifi's poodle butt then pee on the welcome mat. I spent a couple hours reading through the recent posts in the Classics forum about the downfall of the Greco and Roman Empires, and that's good material.. but your authority, Prodigal Son, in the areas of ancient races and the Croatian poster there kinda bent my mind into thinking what are you talking about ? Your interest in these subjects is admirable, however your assumptions are ludicrous. There were no cameras way back.. you can verily see features of race on the remaining statues of Rome and Greece, but that's just about the only information you have concerning physical makeup. The rest is pure conjecture. I do not want to see the research in this area turn into something like a govermnment funded science grant into digging up bones and making strange theories such as evolution. You need to reconsider your efforts in this area and move on. When you talk about these ancient so-called races and tribes, the ABSOLUTE VASTNESS of your UN-INFORMATION and CONJECTURE is EXTREME. You give me a camera in 200 BC and I shall make the world flip over its axx.
2003-06-04 23:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by Exelsis_Deo@Jun 4 2003, 17:30 ** I spent a couple hours reading through the recent posts in the Classics forum about the downfall of the Greco and Roman Empires, and that's good material.. but your authority, Prodigal Son, in the areas of ancient races and the Croatian poster there kinda bent my mind into thinking what are you talking about ? Your interest in these subjects is admirable, however your assumptions are ludicrous. **
I admit that I have no authority on the subject. Therefore, my claims regarding it are limited to the simple statement that the populations of Greece and Rome have changed since antiquity. For that matter, so have the populations of Germany, France, Poland, Russia, etc...
There were no cameras way back.. you can verily see features of race on the remaining statues of Rome and Greece, but that's just about the only information you have concerning physical makeup.
Not so. We also have paintings, frescoes, and literary material available for analysis. There is also cranial material, but you'll probably simply dismiss that out of hand.
There are people trained specifically in determining a human's origins on the basis of the skeletal remains left behind by thse people, ancient or modern. This science is called "physcial anthropology" and has been around for approximately 200 years. Believe it or not, its very accurate-a scientist can infer admixture in an individual better from cranial material than from his or her phenotype. We can also infer data regarding the racial composition of a people from the artwork and literature they leave behind.
I don't claim to know exactly what type the ancient Romans and Greeks were. All I do is cite the work of competent physical anthropologists and historians who are much more qualified than I am to speak on the matter. I am sorry if some of the conclusion physical anthropologist, geneticists and historians reach offend you, or don't fit your beliefs, but, quite frankly, its not my fault.
2003-06-05 00:10 | User Profile
Hello Kameraden,
I am white - no dispute. I am German - no question. I am Aryan - without any doubt.
I and many others will keep it this way - no argument.
Guten Tag,
Mentzer.
2003-06-05 00:59 | User Profile
The fundementals of those lost civilazations are atill in my blood. In yours too. Concerning paintings , you better show that, because there are simply no antiquity painting. NONE. Impressions which were painted around 500 ad and loose their color. And you better change your idea about skull size, lol, I know your not serios on the topic but therefore how do you think it can be historically applied ? All your talk about the delineations of names of tribes and racial allegiances is about 98 % conjecture.. think about it.. what we have for available information cannot tell us the racial makeup or the abilities or anything real about anything back then. The history of Greece as written by its authors is undisputable.. but their interpretations are not. I'm only talking about RACE here, not fact and science .. so before you waste your time delving into remote viewing-type assumptions, just trust your instinct and move in a different deirection, because you have to accept that there are some thing which you will never know. I feel an adversity toward the theme of Nordic/German whatever Wotan notion Aryan that somehow you were the race which inculculated the PROVEN basis at civilzation. It's A conjecture.... NOTHING ELSE.
2003-06-05 04:38 | User Profile
LIKE THAT PROVES SOMETHING.. a financier paid for a painting based on his imaginings.. to suppose more is FOLLY
2003-06-05 12:16 | User Profile
Originally posted by Drakmal@Jun 3 2003, 23:08 ** White genes seem (at least to my experience; I haven't done any genetic testing) to be more or less on-par with mongoloid genes when it comes to dominance, but black genes are quite dominant.
**
Mongoloid genes are somewhat dominant over Caucasoid genes, the same way that Mediterranean genes are dominant over Nordeuropid genes.
This is what someone who is 1/4 Mongoloid would typically look like:
[url=http://www.bris.ac.uk/kinokultura/pix/sbodrovportret.jpg]http://www.bris.ac.uk/kinokultura/pix/sbod...drovportret.jpg[/url]
He was a Russian actor who happened to be 1/4 Manchurian, and to me at least, his Mongoloid component is obvious.
Of course, I've been studying physcial anthropology and phenotypes for quite a while now, so I may be able to see things that the average Joe can't. Would you believe this guy's phenotype is Uralolappinoid influenced?
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg[/url]
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov2_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov2_l.jpg[/url]
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov5_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov5_l.jpg[/url]
I can point out the traits if you can't see it.
And of course, he is white, although a few individuals I've met think otherwise.
2003-06-05 16:48 | User Profile
What about Yelstin, what was his churkanoid coefficient? :shock:
2003-06-05 18:01 | User Profile
**Mongoloid genes are somewhat dominant over Caucasoid genes, the same way that Mediterranean genes are dominant over Nordeuropid genes.
This is what someone who is 1/4 Mongoloid would typically look like:
[url=http://www.bris.ac.uk/kinokultura/pix/sbodrovportret.jpg]http://www.bris.ac.uk/kinokultura/pix/sbod...drovportret.jpg[/url]
He was a Russian actor who happened to be 1/4 Manchurian, and to me at least, his Mongoloid component is obvious.**
Yes, and so is his Russian component. A Chinese would no doubt think he looked far more white than Manchurian.
**Of course, I've been studying physcial anthropology and phenotypes for quite a while now, so I may be able to see things that the average Joe can't. Would you believe this guy's phenotype is Uralolappinoid influenced?
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg[/url]
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov2_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov2_l.jpg[/url]
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov5_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov5_l.jpg[/url]
I can point out the traits if you can't see it.**
First, would you tell me what a Uralolappinoid is? :)
2003-06-05 18:05 | User Profile
Originally posted by Drakmal@Jun 5 2003, 13:01 ** First, would you tell me what a Uralolappinoid is? :) **
:lol:
Sounds like a blood-vessel fissure in the urinary tract.
2003-06-05 18:26 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Jun 5 2003, 10:48 ** What about Yelstin, what was his churkanoid coefficient? :shock: **
Well, Yeltsin obvious has some Mongoloid ancestry, but its hard to estimate by his phenotype, because he's a drunk and it completely screws up his phenotype (gives him puffy cheeks, eyelids, etc...)
2003-06-05 18:31 | User Profile
"Uralolappinoid" is the name that Russian anthropologists give to an ancient and stabilized Mongoloid/Europid mixture, that's approximately 1/3 Mongoloid and 2/3 Europid. The man in question, Alexander Kirikov, is a Nordic/Cro-Magnon mix with slight Uralolappinoid influence.
[url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov_l.jpg[/url] [url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov5_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov5_l.jpg[/url] [url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov2_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov2_l.jpg[/url] [url=http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/Kirikov6_l.jpg]http://www.infosport.ru/press/images/mak/K.../Kirikov6_l.jpg[/url]
notice his high cheekbones, slight facial flatness, low-bridged concave nose with upturned tip, oblique, narrow eyesockets and sparse facial hair. How many would have guessed that he is 100% white? Most people don't notice this, but a lot of Northern Europeans actually have Uralolappinoid traits that manifest themselves phenotypically. I've actually met people who wouldn't call Kirikov white.
Andd here are some Germans, Finns, etc... with a simmilar phenotype, just to show that I am not lying about it being widespread throughout Europe:
[url=http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-east.htm]http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-east.htm[/url]
2003-06-06 02:42 | User Profile
Prodigal, I understand your points - in fact I can remember some individuals referring to certain Finns as "... the other whites,". But these days, I'll consider folks like this white. Some won't, but that's up to them. Someone like Kirikov is obviously mostly "white" - his hair and eye color are the same as mine, and those are considered recessive traits, eh? I'm mostly Irish, Scotch/Irish to be technical [url=http://www.scotchirish.net/)]http://www.scotchirish.net/)[/url] with the added component of Italian. Quite an internal storm some would say.
I'lll side with the earlier post from Drakmal regarding looks and behavior, as simplistic as it may sound to some. In LA, I admit I have met people 1/2 Asian that could pass as white, and some that couldn't. You won't see this with mulattos. While the Caucasian/Asians didn't seem concerned about classifying themselves as one or the other (and generally acting white, etc.) and I don't consider them white, I do feel that this small segment of the population is not one that should be cause for worry. The actual numbers on intermarriage between the races are still quite small, although ZOG is doing its level best to counteract this. Regarding behavior, and acting white as previously mentioned in terms of "Amerasians", I could not say the same is true for mulattos, who generally took the black torch and ran with it as far as they could, with destructive outcomes on many on occasion.
I think a lot of this is nitpicking. Again, as far I'm concerned, Kirikov is white, and so are the Finns for chrissake. Yes we can break down European Caucasians according to their ethnicities or genetic phenotypes or the length of their hair, but that isn't going to do us any good right now. Theotis Brown, Juan Esquivel and Abe Shlepstein see only one thing whether they look at Kirikov, you, me, Bill Gates or John Gotti. Another enemy white.
Yes, the differences are there, easy to see. Take a walk through a mall - a mall with whites that is, not a center city collection of third world dreck, and it's interesting to look at people and be able to judge with a high degree of accuracy their background, although it's still easier to do in Europe itself.
BTW, I like the avatar. Maybe I'll get into the same mode, and start changing mine every so often, instead of leaving the same on up for months at a time.