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Thread ID: 6931 | Posts: 19 | Started: 2003-05-26
2003-05-26 18:34 | User Profile
Subj: [BATR] dunno whether to laugh or cry (or throw eggs)
Date: 5/26/03 2:24:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: dump@dumpmccain.com
Reply-to: BATR@yahoogroups.com
To: batr@yahoogroups.com
BATRfolk:
This latest bit of nonsense at EtherZone's forum is priceless. Atop EZ forum folk calling Dottie (Dorothy Anne) Seese a "communist" (& it took King Moderator "Tony" many days to step in and acknowledge the wrongheadedness of the thread...), today one "KoolAidKid" is claiming the absolute obverse as have I been claiming, for the past 6 months:
E.g.: I feel EtherZone's Discussion forum has degenerated into a GOP/Bush rah-rah boostership, and with the complicity of "Stormchaser" (publisher Robert Momenteller's nephew, who's dubious role at EtherZone is still not known to any among us); and then w/ the addition of NC3 (aka "ACatInTheHat") and Right-Wing (aka the Reverend Tom Barrett, owner/publisher of OpinioNet.com and ConservativeTruth.com) as Moderators... Both neocons extraordinaire... The tenor of the Forum has dwindled into an FR-lite style venue. & traffic has fallen off radically.
The Main Page (which Head Moderator "Tony," during my tenure as Strategic Director, took pains to say is/was "EtherZone") [e.g., the Front Page is EtherZone; the Discussion forum is shite] has held up rather well lately, with an increased writership in Dottie Seese (endorsing Ron Paul for Senate, if not President, as we all should be doing); SARTRE's consistent magic; Alan Stang's brilliance.
Sadly, several EtherZone writers lost faith in Robert Momenteller, after his giving me the boot-stamp on my coat-jacket, out the front door, and the site has lost at least 4 quality writers.
..but to the point of this post: The insane neocon faction are now seeing the Front Page as the threat and disparity to the Discussion forum.
Wd love, still, for SARTRE to set matters straight. Until he does weigh in, I think EtherZone is gonna be a rudderless hulk.
Selah,
TBF
Here's the neocon post TBF refers to:
**KoolAidKid Captain
A Question About EZ (EtherZone) Articles?
ë on: May 13, 2003, 01:34:28 PM û
This has probably been covered but I have not found the answer yet.
I have noticed that many of the articles that EZ runs on its front page are very leftist and some are blatantly anti-Bush. But then - I find most of the posters on the forum to be - at least slightly conservative - so what gives?
Is this really a site with a leftist-slant that just by chance ended up hosting a mainly conservative crew? Or do the articles that appear on the front page not represent the views of EZ in the least? I find that confusing.
So if anyone knows the answer - please fill me in. I feel like everyone is in on a "joke" and I can't figure it out.
Thanks.**
2003-05-26 18:41 | User Profile
My BATR response....
**Todd,
I agree with you. I read the original forum post by the guy who says, "Gee, the EZ front page runs Leftist articles," and all I could do was speak out loud the following question in response to him at my computer screen: "How f**kin' stupid can these people be?"
This is so sad Todd. That forum post sums up for all to see the degree to which modern conservatism has fallen. These neocon foot-soldiers, these friggin' dittoheads, are so dumbed down about ideological matters that they actually read TRUE conservative commentary and think it's "Leftist."
These people are such a sorry lot they aren't even worth it.**
TBF's response....
**Paul:
EtherZone's current discussion forum isn't worth a morning's piss-shiver. The place is wholly unrecognizable, per its promise of 18 months ago.
I've implored James Hall (SARTRE) to get involved in the struggle to return it to its former promise; to right the wrongs of the wrong-headed decisions excercised by/influenced of Robert Momenteller's nephew Doug Sefried ("Stormchaser"), and to bitchslap "Tony" back to his Constitutionalist mode (the guy was once a stalwart...whatever happened to him is an utter mystery to me).
But SARTRE seeks his "neutrality." &, meanwhile, EtherZone sinks (in traffic and prominence and influence). It is a damned shame.
There's nothing I can do, directly, as I'm on the outs w/ Bob M. But I can't help feeling that with SARTRE's assistance, something could have been done to ward off this encroaching neo-con (GOP/RNC-can-do-no-wrong...Big Government is OK, as long as a Republican President is at the helm) mentality. But SARTRE refuses to get involved.
Am glad for the few who've refused to contribute to EtherZone since the debacle. Am grateful and eternally obliged. ...but it still doesn't stave off the spectre of a once-promising site gone-(nearly) sour.
TBF**
2003-05-26 19:11 | User Profile
Paleo:
I mean, what's left to say?
Robert Momenteller, "Tony," "Stormchaser" and "SARTRE" certainly aren't defending their territory. The neocon moderators have gained full-sway over the forum.
Everyone visiting EtherZone lately wonders: "What is this place? Is is a paleocon/paleolibertarian Web-site, as per its front page?; or "is it a Bush pom-pom crew, as per its Discussion Forum, which is always highly critical of the Front Page?"
This is the failing of a weak owner/publisher, one Robert Momenteller, who has never set a standard, despite several year-long pleadings by myself and James Hall (SARTRE). Moderator "Tony" was once on the side of the Jeffersonian anti-federalists, but he seems to've been weakened by his wrong-headed selection of Moderators.
A cryin' shame. EtherZone was just six months ago the most promising, fast-rising Jeffersonian site on the Web. Now it's in an identity crisis.
Its owner/publisher is gonna have to have the balls to decide that which it's gonna be.
2003-05-26 19:22 | User Profile
You don't want me to add traffic to EZ by checking out the forum, do you? :(
2003-05-26 19:28 | User Profile
No point a'tall in you checking out EtherZone's forum. In the inimitable words of Hunter S. Thompson:
"It's as worthless as tits on a boar hog."
Don't bother. A dry spout. No nourishment to be had therein.
2003-05-26 19:49 | User Profile
[An astute post from LibertyForum.org, on this topic:]
LSJohn (extremist) 05/26/03 02:46 PM
Re: How Far Conservatism Has Fallen At EtherZone Forum [ To: toddbrendanfahey | Post 640556, reply to 640449 ] (Score: 2)
"Neo-con" is almost too kind for most of these folks.
There are closely related leanings among them: "GOP-cons" "Bush-cons" "Fundie-cons" and "Zio-cons."
"Republi-cons" probably comes closest to catching all of them.
The "neo" prefix has a forward-looking clean sound which none of them deserve, and neither do any of them deserve the "con" suffix in the conservative sense, but all deserve it in the confidence-game sense (but even that implies a cleverness to which the dittoheads among them couldn't even hope to aspire.)
The "new Right" has managed to preserve -- and extend -- the worst of the old (military and law-enforcement excesses and deference to BigBusiness) while taking on the leftist habit of throwing money at social problems, and ignoring the problems of illegal immigration (pretending it shows "compassion.")
Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice --Barry Goldwater (by Karl Hess)
2003-05-26 21:30 | User Profile
Todd,
You well know that EtherZone cannot nor should not be considered "my territory".
Per my response to your inquiry on the BATR Yahoo Group:
[QUOTE] While I have monitored the content on the EZ forum under the article topic, (two recent posts on SARTRE articles), the need to comment or reply to the readership would be fruitless.
For the record, I am, as always - available - to work with the publisher or editor of any America First political site. However, my role for suggesting strategic and policy changes has been placed in hibernation, with most sites. The plain answer, is unless asked, I will not offer my counsel . . .
While events often take paths that form regrets, publishers hold the keys to their ventures.
The struggle upon which you speak is engaged with each idea.
Thus, while I will stand ready; I yet will stand down until asked . . .
SARTRE [QUOTE]
Would urge you to select your implication more carefully. Your problem is with Mr Momenteller. Therefore, leave me out of your future EZ comments.
SARTRE :ph34r:
2003-05-27 15:38 | User Profile
Would urge you to select your implication more carefully. Your problem is with Mr Momenteller. Therefore, leave me out of your future EZ comments.
SARTRE: As you currently sit on the Board of Directors (such as it is...) of EtherZone.com, and what with Head-moderator "Tony" being a member of the BATR Forum (unless he recently resigned; info I'm not privy to), and with the level of respect you and I both used to have for "Tony"...and in the face of the total about-face of EtherZone's Forum (which is, again, headed by "Tony," and over which a Board member should have some kind of input, if a Board of Directors is to have any meaning at all...
Just wondering how you can remain silent in the face of posters at EtherZone's forum now calling the front page "leftist" and Dorothy Anne Seese "a communist," all-the-while "Tony" and EZ owner/publisher Robert Momenteller do nothing to stem the flow of idiocy therein, or in any way make clear to forum participants what EtherZone's aims really are (or, used to be).
That's all.
(& I selected my words as carefully as I always do. I know you don't derive $ from EtherZone (nobody does); so I'm not sure why you responded with that defense.)
2003-05-27 17:21 | User Profile
As a first time visitor to Etherzone, I was completely baffled by the total incongruity of two pieces presented on the frontpage "News From the Isreali Front " on the same page with a "no war for Israel"-type piece. At some point Etherzone was a decent paleo portal but the moderators have allowed it to be hijacked by Joe "love that Dubya" Sixpack and Sally "Anne Coulter fan" Soccermom. Its a piece of trash-their forum is not even worth lurking on.
2003-05-27 17:34 | User Profile
Todd,
As you are well aware, Mr Momenteller is the operative decision maker at EtherZone. I have NOTHING to do with the EZ Forum, and again as you are well aware, as the content liaison for EZ, my function relates to contributors. My instructions were to leave issues related to the EZ Forum to the publisher and his approved moderators.
It should be self evident that without a request, I would not intervene. If an EZ columists sent me a request, I certainly would make an inquiry with the publisher.
This is an old subject that should be well understood by all parties.
Believe you must have read my reply on the liberty Forum that answered another member.
Hope this clarifies.
SARTRE :ph34r:
2003-05-27 19:33 | User Profile
SARTRE:
Having been privy to the internal workings of EtherZone.com for nearly 4 years, I know full-well the realities on all fronts.
But others (those not privy to internal communiques) are not, and in the interest of righting an increasingly wrong-headed site, lemme riff:
1) You are "Content Liaison" (Board-level), yet owner/publisher Robert Momenteller doesn't consult you when he seeks to add new contributors; nor does he seek your advice/consultation when fully five (5) top-quality writers bailed, en-masse.
2) As (then-) Board-level Strategic Director, Mr. Momenteller never consulted me (nor you) as per addition of three very dubious neo-con Moderators to the EtherZone Forum.
Many, many folks have noted the ideological gulf/disparity between EtherZone's (generally) fine Front Page and its (totally worthless) discussion forum. "Board Members" (you, and, previously, me) should have had our ideas heard on this matter. We (you and I) were blown off, utterly.
5 top-quality writers no longer contribute to EtherZone, after the putsch. 4 of the 5 were/are serious Constitutionalists (one being a foreign national, with a good heart, tho not thoroughly versed in Jeffersonian/Henry thought).
EtherZone continues to plummet in traffic. The Forum has drawn derision from all Right/libertarian boards; & its traffic-volume, as well, is mebbe 1/4 of what it was when I was active at the site.
What's been gained by Robert Momenteller since the purge, following the Ron Paul/Tom Tancredo Presidential bid (early March 2003)? Anything?
Awaiting your response,
TBF
2003-05-27 21:55 | User Profile
Todd,
If any contributor to EtherZone has the desire or need to discuss any concerns about submissions, they should send me a private message at: sartre@frontiernet.net
Certainly, I would take those issues to the publisher.
Any writer who has interest for consideration to contribute to EtherZone can also contact me directly at the same email address.
While your last characterization is essentially correct, Mr Momenteller has at different times, requested evaluation opinions regarding new columnists. However, the decision is his alone and input is provided only when requested.
Understand that you view a board member as having voting consideration, while my interpretation is that of response to specific requests.
Therefore, until or when future direction is provided by the publisher, I am unable to comment further about an EZ position. It's unfortunate that you are not in a position to discuss the full range of concerns with Mr Momenteller. However, most regretfully, your bridges were burned.
If Mr Momenteller indicates any willingness to revisit the subject, I will response accordingly.
I urge you to discuss further matters privately, and respect that this public forum is not the optimum method.
As always, I am ready to work with any America First site or columnist.
All the best,
SARTRE :ph34r:
2003-05-27 23:02 | User Profile
I urge you to discuss further matters privately, and respect that this public forum is not the optimum method.
SARTRE: I've tried. 's gotten me nowhere. As you well know.
We've gone 'round and 'round on this score. Bob Momenteller acquiesced (sp?), for some stoopid f*cking reason, to have the "Reverend" Tom Barrett ("Right-Wing"--owner/publisher of OpinioNet.com and ConservativeTruth.com...neocon extraordinaire) and NC3 (aka "ACatIntheHat") serving as Moderators at the EtherZone Forum.
Can you make sense of such a decision? (Honestly. Come on: Yes or No. This "silence" bullsh*t that you're seeking to hide behind is a ruse: I'm asking you a direct question, here and now.)
& would YOU (James Hall, SARTRE; yes, you) trade Albert Burns, Paul Fallavollita, Max Shpak, Jan Lamprecht and Todd Brendan Fahey, as columnists, for "Right-Wing" (Tom Barrett) and NC3 as Moderators? I mean, if it were up to you. If you were in charge. Would this be a wise trade?
Anyway. EtherZone's tankin' hard, as it should be, following a really bone-headed decision on the part of its owner. It'll fall apart due to discontinuity and owner/publisher neglect before long. A sad spectacle, and one that could've very easily been avoided (by ditching the neocon wets, when they started bitching about Ron Paul/Tom Tancredo).
But Bob Momenteller's got no cojones. That we know from experience.
2003-05-27 23:09 | User Profile
Todd,
move on.
2003-05-27 23:27 | User Profile
madrussian:
I've moved on. Picked up 2 more Web sites to incorporate into SiaNews and FriendsOflLiberty; have mounted alliances w/ a coupla stellar sites (news to be unveiled shortly). Still writing. blahblahblah.
But this doesn't erase the past.
One can "move on" and still seek to correct past wrongs. The two processes ain't mutually exclusive.
& as I was the one who was affected by the EtherZone debacle, it's pretty much my choice whether I "move on" or not. You can observe from the sidelines, but that's about it.
Etc.
Best, TBF
2003-05-27 23:37 | User Profile
AntiYuppie:
I can tell you that I received mail from Albert Burns--who had done stellar work for EtherZone, since (yes) I pitched him to Robert Momenteller. Mr. Burns is a fount of wisdom. Nearly 80 years old, and with the mental dexterity of a 30-year old (and a library that'd blow your mind).
He wrote that he was "sickened of the shenanigans at EtherZone," and would be submitting no more. I can't speak for Paul Fallavollita, other than to say that his articles have become increasingly rare at EZ. Ditto yours and David Wilkinson's.
& if you'll look at the Masthead (Page Two, on EtherZone's site), you'll see that "Max Shpak" and "David Wilkinson" never were placed on EtherZone's roster.
I don't think Bob Momenteller really gives a sh*t about his site. It's a money-loser for him; a time-drain. I don't think he has the guts and gumption for stripped-down Jeffersonian anti-Federalist politics required to really make a go of EtherZone. This is where SARTRE & I fit in.
Bob M. has always put EtherZone on autopilot. It's only as good as this week's series of articles. SARTRE & I brought it into serious contendership, but then Bob M. f*cked it.
That's become obvious. WHY he chose to screw the pooch, as he did, is a mystery. I have my suspicions, but they remain suspicions only.
2003-05-27 23:37 | User Profile
AntiYuppie,
As far as I know, no contributor has been reject from publication (except TBF). Until I am told different, some columnists may have chosen not to make further submissions. Would consider that as personal reasons, not known or shared with me.
Todd,
madrussian is giving good advise.
What you label a ruse is integrity to me. I will select the time, place and venue when and if I chose to express myself on internal matters regarding a relationship that I maintain and which remains cordial.
Once again, urge you to DROP IT !!!
SARTRE :ph34r:
2003-05-27 23:43 | User Profile
SARTRE:
You can urge whatever you like. I've urged you to speak publicly as to EtherZone's Forum and its total discontinuity relative to the Front Page. & even in the face of Paul Fallavollita's and Jimmy Cantrell's scathing assessments of EtherZone recently, you've chosen to demure.
(& remember: You once championed Jimmy Cantrell's entry into EtherZone's stable of writers; Mr. Cantrell said he'd never write for a site that featured "Sentry Over America"--the Government plant--as a writer. You've had ample opportunity to put yr convictions where yr mouth is, and usher in Mr. Cantrell by virtue of urging Bob Momenteller to kick Sentry out the back door. You, again, have demurred.)
Selah.
& that's about all I have to say for today.
See you around.
TBF
2003-05-27 23:46 | User Profile