← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Rainman
Thread ID: 6770 | Posts: 70 | Started: 2003-05-19
2003-05-19 00:18 | User Profile
Liberty Begins at Home
By Paul Street
May 12, 2003
People who wonder why a majority of African Americans do not support George W. Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq might want to talk to a black gentleman and fellow Chicagoan I know named Tony. They should also review some recent and important research on hiring discrimination in and around Chicago, to be discussed below.
Tony possesses "only" a High School degree but enjoys greater political and sociological wisdom than most of America's college-certified population, including many high academics. He recently posed an excellent question after relating a media commentator's remarks to the effect that the US was going to bring justice and democracy to Iraq. "How," Tony asked me, "you gonna export something you ain't even got at home?"
One does not devalue the moral bases of blacks' skepticism regarding Bush's foreign policy by noting that African-Americans are in a unique position to see with special clarity through the disingenuous and narcissistic pretensions of the White House's declared overseas intentions. Similarly, one can debate the extent to which America enjoys a functioning democracy and a serious national commitment to justice. There is no denying, however, the simple fact that equality remains an elusive goal for African-Americans more than three and a half decades after the historic victories of the Civil Rights Movement.
In a nation that has the highest poverty rate and the largest gaps between rich and poor in the industrialized world, blacks are considerably poorer than whites and other racial and ethnic groups. Economic inequality correlates closely with race.
Tony's and my beloved city of Chicago is no exception to the national pattern. According to a recent analysis of (2000) US census and state labor market data by the Chicago Urban League:
The median income for white families ($62, 680) in Chicago at the turn of the millennium was nearly twice that of black families ($32,776).
The unemployment rate for black Chicagoans (18.3 percent) was four times the unemployment rate for white Chicagoans (4.6 percent).
The poverty rate for black Chicago residents was 29 percent, compared to just 8 percent for white Chicago residents.
In the Chicago metropolitan area, blacks live on average in neighborhoods with incomes just 59 percent as high as incomes in neighborhoods inhabited by average whites.
Especially telling, Chicago's black community makes up 37 percent of Chicago's population but accounts for 58 percent of Chicago's poor. It makes up 13 percent of the Chicago metropolitan area's population but contributes 38 percent of the metropolitan area's poor. It makes up 9 percent of the state's population but accounts for 25 of the state's poor people.
The main problem with majority white racial attitudes at the turn of the Millennium is a failure to distinguish between overt and covert racism. The first variety has a long and sordid history in the United States. It includes such actions, policies and practices as the burning of black homes and black churches, the public use of derogatory racial slurs and epithets, the open banning of blacks from numerous occupations, the open political disenfranchisement of blacks and the open segregation of public facilities by race.
The first variety of racism is largely defeated, outlawed and discredited in the US. Witness the rapid public humiliation and political demotion of Trent Lott, who lost his position as Senate Majority Leader after verbally embracing the openly segregationist 1948 Presidential campaign of Strom Thurmond.
The second variety involves the more impersonal operation of social and institutional forces and processes in ways that produce deep black disadvantage in the labor market and numerous other sectors of American life. It includes racially segregated real estate practices, racial discrimination in hiring and promotion, the systematic under-funding and under-equipping of schools predominantly attended by blacks relative to schools predominantly attended by whites, the disproportionate surveillance, arrest and incarceration of blacks and much more. Richly enabled by policymakers who commonly declare allegiance to anti-racist ideals, it has an equally ancient history that has outlived the explicit, open and public racism of the past and the passage of civil rights legislation.
It may actually be deepened by these civil rights victories insofar as those victories encourage the illusion of racism's disappearance and the strongly related notion that the only barriers left to African-American success and equality are internal to individual blacks and their community. As Steinhorn and Diggs-Brown note, "it is hard to blame people" for falsely believing that racial discrimination has been essentially abolished in America "when our public life is filled with repeated affirmations of the integration ideal and our ostensible progress towards achieving it." Episodes like the recent demotion of Trent Lott may actually offer a potentially dangerous new opportunity for the nation to pat itself on the back for advancing beyond the primitive state of level-one racism while digging the hole of the deeper racism yet deeper.
In seeking to expose that persistent deep racism, it is crucial to realize that it continues to operate against African-Americans who have overcome or avoided some of the society's broader racially disparate structural forces by attaining the skills and credentials required to access modern labor market opportunities. This is the great contribution of matched-pair employment testing. We need, however, to go yet deeper, behind the smoking gun of pure discrimination to see that spatial, skill, and criminal record "mismatches" are themselves deeply colored by and expressive of a covert racism that involves special white fear and loathing toward males within the African-American population.
2003-05-19 02:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 00:18 **One does not devalue the moral bases of blacks' skepticism regarding Bush's foreign policy by noting that African-Americans are in a unique position to see with special clarity through the disingenuous and narcissistic pretensions of the White House's declared overseas intentions....... ** Ah contraire, they have such a special opacity of vision that the regular propoganda goes right over their heads, and such visceral and irrational hatred of white America that they refexively oppose any war white America supports, even wars that actually are in the best interests of America's enemies.
2003-05-19 08:09 | User Profile
White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that?
2003-05-19 15:16 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 04:09 ** White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
Blacks aren't smart enough to keep from getting caught.
2003-05-19 15:19 | User Profile
Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@May 19 2003, 10:16 ** Blacks aren't smart enough to keep from getting caught. **
LOL! :lol:
Great retort, PA.
2003-05-19 15:33 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 02:09 ** White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
Do you have anything to back up this statement, by the way?
Perhaps you are talking about petty crime - such as jaywalking or stealing bubble gum. The violent crime rates don't look good as a back up for your statement.
2003-05-19 15:58 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 08:09 ** White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
Not unless the FBI stats are completely haywire. Source?
Makes no sense at all in view of the common perception (which all the statistics agree with) that if the white American crime rate were viewed as separate from non-white US crime, it would be about the same as the crime rate in Switzerland or Norway.
Check out New Nation News for details:
[url=http://www.newnation.org/index2.html]http://www.newnation.org/index2.html[/url]
2003-05-19 16:37 | User Profile
Rainman, FYI -
[url=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm#top]Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders[/url]
Bureau of Justice Homicide Stats don't agree with you.
2003-05-19 17:47 | User Profile
**White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
Glow-in-the-dark teeth and fingernails.
2003-05-19 18:04 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 01:09 ** White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
I sense a troll :afro:
2003-05-19 18:59 | User Profile
...called madrussian.
2003-05-19 20:17 | User Profile
I would never trust "Bureau of Justice Homicide Stats".
==============================================
Close to 70 percent of America's prisoners are people of color.
<<...the nationwide prison population of 2 million, now almost 70 % Black and Latino,...>>
[url=http://www.minerscanary.org/mainart..._proposal.shtml]http://www.minerscanary.org/mainart..._proposal.shtml[/url]
==============================================
Profiting from Prisoners
As prisons proliferate in U.S. society, private capital has become enmeshed in the punishment industry. And precisely because of their profit potential, prisons are becoming increasingly important to the U.S. economy. If the notion of punishment as a source of potentially stupendous profits is disturbing by itself, then the strategic dependence on racist structures and ideologies to render mass punishment palatable and profitable is even more troubling.
Prison privatization is the most obvious instance of capital's current movement toward the prison industry. While government-run prisons are often in gross violation of international human rights standards, private prisons are even less accountable. In March of this year, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the largest U.S. private prison company, claimed 54,944 beds in 68 facilities under contract or development in the U.S., Puerto Rico, the United Kingdom, and Australia. Following the global trend of subjecting more women to public punishment, CCA recently opened a women's prison outside Melbourne. The company recently identified California as its "new frontier."
Wackenhut Corrections Corporation (WCC), the second largest U.S. prison company, claimed contracts and awards to manage 46 facilities in North America, U.K., and Australia. It boasts a total of 30,424 beds as well as contracts for prisoner health care services, transportation, and security.
Currently, the stocks of both CCA and WCC are doing extremely well. Between 1996 and 1997, CCA's revenues increased by 58 percent, from $293 million to $462 million. Its net profit grew from $30.9 million to $53.9 million. WCC raised its revenues from $138 million in 1996 to $210 million in 1997. Unlike public correctional facilities, the vast profits of these private facilities rely on the employment of non-union labor.
[url=http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/P...ism_ADavis.html]http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/P...ism_ADavis.html[/url]
===========================================
2003-05-19 20:32 | User Profile
White America does commit more crime per capita,
A boldfaced lie.
** and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that?**
See PaleoconAvatar's reply. It should explain things clearly.
2003-05-19 20:36 | User Profile
When the facts conflict with the worldview, just claim that all sources for the facts are untrustworthy. This allows you to make absurd claims like "White America does commit more crime per capita" without having any obligation to back them up. Anything which disproves the claim is "untrustworthy", since it conflicts with the worldview.
Right, Komrade Rainman?
2003-05-19 21:05 | User Profile
**Originally posted by Rainman:
I would never trust "Bureau of Justice Homicide Stats".**
OK, care to name a more reliable source for crime statistics?
<<...the nationwide prison population of 2 million, now almost 70 % Black and Latino,...>>
Exactly. Because they commit more crime per capita, and are too stupid to avoid getting caught.
2003-05-19 21:14 | User Profile
Prodigal, we have a new troll. As usual, trolls never deal in facts. They only deal in emotion. Blacks and latinos are incarcerated at much higher rates than whites because they commit crimes at ASTRONOMICALLY higher rates than whites. They are less intelligent, more impulsive, much more violent. Most of them seem to have very little ability to think ahead in terms of just where their criminal activity will lead them. Much like trolls. Trolls let their emotions dictate behavior, and then become frustrated, then buried, when faced with facts.
Yes, whites are the reasons latinos and blacks perform poorly in school, have most of their children out of wedlock, rely on social services, blah blah blah. What a load of bunk. I guess the only reality is that whites are the only group held responsible for any negative actions they may take. Anyone else tosses their blame on the heap marked 'whitey'.
2003-05-19 21:36 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 19 2003, 02:09 ** White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that? **
That 'people of color', or, put another way, colored people, comprise 70% of America's prison inmates is quite possibly true; that white Americans, or, put another way, people of non-color, commit crimes disproportionally, is the most ludicrous statement I have come across in a long time. I noticed that you were able to defend, with statistics, your assertion, that colored people are incarcerated at high rates; I further noticed that you were unable to defend your assertion that non-colored people commit more crimes per capita. One good thing about the Internet, as opposed to a private conversation, is that you always have an opportunity to get the last word on a bulletin board. Prove your theory. Name your source as to the white crime rate.
2003-05-19 22:23 | User Profile
Ahhh, don't you listen to them, Rainy. I'm wit' ya. I'm down fer dat noise, homedawg.
In fact, some o' mah best fwends be darkies -- fer instance: Leroy Melonsucker, LaMarcus Tyrone Jones, an' mah best fwend of all, Shawanda Kasheena LaShirley Raheema Smith. She be mah reeeaaallll special fwend, if'n ya git mah meaning, heheheheh....
:hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit:
2003-05-20 07:05 | User Profile
Some bloody "white" racists are so vexed they are chewing any paper they can get their hands on.
Relax.
I did not meant to lie or mislead. I read that stat few years ago in a newspaper and do not have it now to present it as a proof. The intention wasn't lying as it is not my style.
But there is plenty of evidence, documented facts and proofs as to why blacks have over the decades stayed where they are now. As to why there are very few of them in business community, government, decision making centers and so forth. Just flag it and I shower you with links.
2003-05-20 07:20 | User Profile
Indians are the only superior race, Rainman. Will you bow down before us?
2003-05-20 10:13 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 20 2003, 01:05 But there is plenty of evidence, documented facts and proofs as to why blacks have over the decades stayed where they are now.
Do share; I suspect we shall be treated to an abundance of the words ââ¬Ëinstitutionalââ¬â¢ and ââ¬Ëracismââ¬â¢ in close proximity.
2003-05-20 13:06 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 20 2003, 07:05 ** Some bloody "white" racist are so vexed they are chewing any paper they can get their hands on.
Relax.
I did not meant to lie or mislead. I read that stat few years ago in a newspaper and do not have it now to present it as a proof. The intention wasn't lying as it is not my style.
But there is plenty of evidence, documented facts and proofs as to why blacks have over the decades stayed where they are now. As to why there are very few of them in business community, government, decision making centers and so forth. Just flag it and I shower you with links. **
Blacks are significantly less intelligent than whites and Asians on average as measured by IQ.
Since IQ is a good predictor of professional success, it is not surprising that the social classes tend to stratify based on IQ, and that blacks and browns are very disproportionately represented in the lower economic classes where most of the violent crime occurs. The "Bell Curve" discusses these issues at length - I suggest that you read it.
But al of this is really intuitively obvious. Everybody knows that if you want to get ahead in America and you don't have a rich uncle who will leave you his millions, about the only way is to get educated in a remunerative profession. But the awful fact - proven by innumerable studies - is that only 15% of the white population, and only 2% of the black population, have IQ's above 115, considered the cut-off for "prime college material." 50% of all blacks have an IQ at 85 or below, whereas only 15% of all whites are that dim.
The identical twin studies and similar studies prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these differences in the IQ means for blacks and whites are largely genetic. Hence, so long as income will be largely a function of IQ (it is), then blacks and browns will inhabit the bottom of America's social scale.
Black leaders know this, but they also know that actually telling their own people that they're in effect dumb and should be happy with the menial tasks they're qualified would be unacceptable to blacks as a group and would certainly cost them their positions. They therefore devise affirmative action programs to attain for blacks the economic results Nature would deny them. This causes whites to (rightly) feel cheated, since black failure is determined by natural causes and thus is in no way their fault.
But this is a tedious discussion. It will never end until we've seen that no two peoples who differ as profoundly as whites and blacks in average tempermant and natural proclivities can share the same territory peacefully. MLK's "dream" was just that, and it's long since turned into a nightmare for alll involved.
We must separate.
Walter
2003-05-20 14:53 | User Profile
Originally posted by na Gaeil is gile@May 20 2003, 04:13 > Originally posted by Rainman@May 20 2003, 01:05 But there is plenty of evidence, documented facts and proofs as to why blacks have over the decades stayed where they are now.**
Do share; I suspect we shall be treated to an abundance of the words ââ¬Ëinstitutionalââ¬â¢ and ââ¬Ëracismââ¬â¢ in close proximity.**
From zmag, no doubt. We'll get to hear about how the blacks are forced to riot, rape, steal, and murder because the White Businessman wants profits for the prison-industrial complex, how White Flight is keeping blacks down, how they just need more "inclusion" and social programs, the cops are racist, and blah blah blah blah blah.
All this denial, obfuscation, and wishful-thinking is so utterly proposterous that I am embarassed that I believed it a few years ago.
shudders
If you want to help the po' black man, Rainman, take a look at all the mass third-world immigration which takes over the menial labor jobs that the po' black man used to do.
Vote AmericaFirst! The po' black man's job depends on it!
2003-05-20 18:16 | User Profile
Seems you already know what the links were going to be about and from which source. Now that you've already made up your mind and have prejudice about any number or reason, then no link for you. :P
(Blacks do not have low IQ. That is a rubbish made by white Amerika.)
2003-05-21 01:18 | User Profile
**Seems you already know what the links were going to be about and from which source.ÃÂ Now that you've already made up your mind and have prejudice about any number or reason, then no link for you. **
LOL. No links for us because you simply cannot prove such an outrageously idiotic assertion as "blacks committ less crime per capita than whites."
(Blacks do not have low IQ.ÃÂ That is a rubbish made by white Amerika.)
Just when I thought you'd said the most idiotic thing ever, you keep on talking! Does the fact that you are making yourself look like a complete idiot bother you at all? Blacks have the lowest average IQ of any racial group, and its genetic. [url=http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no1/jpr-taxonomic.html]Link: Is Race a Valid Taxonomic Construct? by Dr. John Philippe Rushton.[/url]
2003-05-21 01:30 | User Profile
Rainman seems to be a troll, because it's hard to believe someone can be so genuinely stupid :lol:
2003-05-21 01:37 | User Profile
The absolute scores differ slightly depending on the tests used, but the facts are in. Blacks have the lowest average IQ's of any race. Mestizos are slightly ahead.
Blacks in the US average 85, mestizos 88, whites 100, E. Asians 104, Ashkenazi jews 110 (though jews try now to claim their IQ is even higher, despite what actual research shows). Whites have the widest standard deviation at 15 points. Jews and E. Asians average just under 9 points. Whites have a greater range of distribution than jews and E. Asians, so while there are more slow whites, there are more whites at the far right end of the bell curve, the smart end. Whites are 6 to 8 times more likely to have IQ's in the gifted range of 135 and higher, while blacks are 6 to 8 times to have IQ's in the retarded range of 70 or below. By the standards of whites, jews or E. Asians, blacks and mestizos are slow. Only 16% of blacks have IQ's over the white average of 100. That means that 84% of them are below the white average.
[url=http://www.amren.com/9211issue/9211issue.html]http://www.amren.com/9211issue/9211issue.html[/url]
The above link not only has the info on intelligence, but farther down the page is info on race and crime. Less intelligence equals more crime, especially violent crime. Case closed.
[img]http://www.newnation.com/Images/Bantu-Meru.jpg[/img]
2003-05-21 11:07 | User Profile
Originally posted by Roger Bannister@May 21 2003, 01:37 ** The above link not only has the info on intelligence, but farther down the page is info on race and crime. Less intelligence equals more crime, especially violent crime. Case closed.
**
And less intelligence means lower income, which leads to understandable but objectively unjustifiable class resentment on the part of blacks.
Blacks are far, far more likely than whites to be born out of wedlock, commit violent crimes, live on welfare, and to generally live as social parasites. In a world of highly compensated knowledge workers and impoverished low-IQ drones, blacks will be greatly overrepresented among the immiserated, and this is sure to cause resentment, human nature being what it is.
I wish blacks well, I really do. As a Christian I accept them as my brothers in Christ. But to paraphrase Albert Schwietzer, if the negro is my brother, then he is my little brother. Nature and Nature's God made it so. The good negroes understand and accept this as God's will. So do good whites, who are rightly concerned for the welfare of their little brothers.
The necessary precondition to respect between the races is the simple recognition of the reality of racial differences. Once this stark fact is accepted, the principle of territorial separation follows automatically, for it is clear that two peoples that differ so much in abilities cannot hope to share the same territory without potentially explosive social friction.
Blacks must be made to take responsibility for themselves in their own land. Clearly, history shows that blacks are incapable of maintaining a technological civilization on their own. All of de-colonized Africa proves this point beyond all doubt. Blacks simply cannot produce enough smart people to keep the machine running, and so they naturally collapse back to subsistance farming and hunting. This process is complete in places like the Congo, it's well on its way in Zimbabwe.
If we could just talk openly and honestly about low black intelligence, then we could work out a deal whereby whites help manage their countries - we could avoid the horror that is modern day black Africa.
It's all just so stupid. Consider as just one example how millions of black people suffer in Africa and in the diaspora because liberals are afraid to speak openly about how low African intelligence impacts black sexual behaviour and the spread of AIDS. This simple denial of reality is a direct and proximate cause of the horrific epidemic that is decimating Africa. Consider also how low black intelligence means that the black "veterans" of Zimbabwe will simply be incapable of running the modern farms of the dispossessed whites, sending Zimbabweans back to prehistoric times and resulting in thousands starving. All of that could be avoided, if we could just speak the truth about racial differences.
It's not just stupid, as I said. It's evil. It's sick.
All those people - my fellow human beings - suffering needlessly just so some PeeCee moron can feel good about himself.
Man, liberals make my skin crawl.
Walter
2003-05-21 12:36 | User Profile
[Brother Walter]: If we could just talk openly and honestly about low black intelligence,...
[Rainman]: (Blacks do not have low IQ. That is a rubbish made by white Amerika.)
[NN]: If we could just talk openly and honestly about low white [?] intelligence,...
2003-05-21 13:11 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 21 2003, 12:36 ** > [Brother Walter]: If we could just talk openly and honestly about low black intelligence,...
[Rainman]: (Blacks do not have low IQ. That is a rubbish made by white Amerika.)
[NN]: If we could just talk openly and honestly about low white [?] intelligence,... **
Yeah, I know what you mean.
The major disability of whites isn't low IQ per se, but rather this terrible predisposition to insanely altruistic acts that are of no benefit to the tribe.
For example, a woman may become a nun and give up the normal pleasures of family life in order better to devote her life to the service of the tribe. This was a perfectly good thing in homogeneous nation states like Ireland or Croatia. So long as the sacrifice remains within the tribe, it fulfills the dictates of the Natural Law, inasmuch as the tribe is the unit of Darwinian selection, and thus an individual's sacrifice makes sense only to the extent that it serves the advancement of a discreet gene pool. The nun's individual sacrifice was the tribe's gain and, since the tribe was the carrier of multiple copies of the nun's genes, the sacrifice made sense from the point of view of the nun's individual genome.
But white people are terribly prone to violating this Darwinian economy by sacrificing themselves for out-groups.
Yggdrasil listed Prof. Miller's book "The Mating Mind" in his classics section for his insight that this tendency probably has to do with our evolved need for sexual display. Helping negroes with affirmative action to the detriment of ourselves and our children is a sort of sexual advertising like a peacock's tail or a young male antelope's cavorting over lions; it says to the world "I'm so strong and fit, and by extension my tribe is so strong and fit, that I can handicap myself six ways to Sunday and not break a sweat. Mate with me!"
Whites came up with chivalry, courtly love, the "equality of man", affirmative action, and "wars to end all wars" by reason of our crazy need to show off our sexual fitness. At least, that would seem to follow from Prof. Miller's very interesting theory.
Contrast this with the Talmud's injunctions to limit charity to the Tribe, and indeed the general stance of malign neglect toward gentiles summed up in the slogan "neither push a gentile in a well, nor pull him from a well."
The Christian idea of unconditional love to one's fellow man can work in practice only in the nation state, a fact recognized by the Catholic Church (see Articles 56-58 of the Catechism) and indeed all of Christian Tradition. Altruism can only function properly in-group, this is the teaching of the Natural Law.
Our evolved needs for sexual display are our Achilles heel. We crave these displays so much that we've even developed powerfully subtle mechanisms of self-deception to cover for them. The double-think displayed by most of our people on the obvious reality of racial differences is an incident to this terrible prediliction to show off. The more traditional and virile forms of Christianity - such as that of our New England Puritain ancestors - preached "virtues" of self-restraint, self-effacement, prudence and modesty in direct counterpoint to our evolved need to indulge, brag, shoot from the hip and conspicuously consume. Indeed, this is precisely why they were "virtues" - they taught individuals to keep a handle on their sexual natures in the broadest sense for the good of the tribe.
The loss of these virtues entailed the profligate sexual displays that is the egalitarianism of the past 60 years.
Walter
2003-05-21 23:34 | User Profile
What interests me regarding black behavior and intelligence is the utter contempt the more intelligent blacks have for their own less intelligent kinsmen. Look at Africa. The small numbers of blacks intelligent enough to get anything done spend their time taking complete advantage of their kin, looting their lands dry, and partying like there's no tomorrow. Yes, in many cases, there isn't. But this leads to areas other than intelligence. That altruism that whites possess, that altruistic nature that is now used against us, seems not to exist at all among most blacks. The situation is similar, but not quite so dramatic among mestizos as well. The same behavior goes on the US, with screamin' Jesse and Fat Al not really giving a good God-damn about their people, but able to use them as leverage to keep the cash and poozle coming.
I see in my time away, a new troll has arrived in the form of Rainman. I hope that you have all smothered him in facts.
2003-05-22 03:17 | User Profile
Anti-Yuppie, I could not say it better.. that's precisely the facts. They are incapable of adjusting to our cizilized and modern society, let alone contributing to it. No matter what government programs, billions of dollars spent, special attention, decades pass and pass again. WIthout the institution of professional sports, which is the Negro race's partial savior, they would truly have nothing. Take away the ball games and the Jew-created rap music agenda, there would be no Negro millionaires. As time goes on, the burden they place on Our Civilization is increasingly heavy. And just like a pack of dogs, they act one way when isolated, and violent and rude when grouped together. It's obvious that they have no ability to create, to go to the next level, to do anything but simply mimic like a parrot. We can have feelings for certain individuals, but as a race, we must never consider them equals. They are far from that. So far, it's truly mind-boggling.
2003-05-24 03:47 | User Profile
There is a famous saying :"People are born equally, but don't remain equal."
There is no difference in brain and its capability between that of a white or person of color.
Let's stop white crooks from holding the power and media, and the truth will come out in due time.
2003-05-24 04:07 | User Profile
Rainman- out of curiosity, do you have any evidence to support your theories? Can you cite some Bizarro World version of the Bell Curve, which places black and white IQ on the same level? Or are you merely speculating, against the wealth of actual evidence, of which the Bell Curve is merely the tip of the iceberg?
2003-05-24 04:12 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 23 2003, 21:47 **There is a famous saying :"People are born equally, but don't remain equal."
There is no difference in brain and its capability between that of a white or person of color.
Let's stop white crooks from holding the power and media, and the truth will come out in due time.**
Rainman,
Assume, for the sake of argument, that average African-American intelligence is 15 points below that of European-Americans.
What would distinguish the implications of that fact from the circumstances which we presently experience?
Neo
2003-05-24 16:49 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 23 2003, 21:47 There is a famous saying :"People are born equally, but don't remain equal."
That saying has no resemblance to relaity. To assume that all are born with equal ability would be to idiotically disregard decades of research into racial differences.
There is no difference in brain and its capability between that of a white or person of color.
Being the troll that you are, you fail to back that statement up with any evidence whatsoever. You are also making a complete idiot of yourself, but that's your problem. Apparently you haven't read my link: [img]http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/images/jpr21-chart2.jpg[/img]
Let's stop white crooks from holding the power and media, and the truth will come out in due time.
Jews are not white. In any case, the Jews who hold the power to the media are extremely sympathetic to your idiotic viewpoint. It is because of the Jewish media, which you now so hilariously see as you capitalist enemy that your idiotic views on race coalesced.
2003-05-24 19:14 | User Profile
Who do you work for, Rainman?
:sm:
2003-05-24 21:58 | User Profile
There is a subtle difference between "cause" and "effect", which either you are ignorant about or are deliberately ignoring.
All the research and bell curves of ther world you are refering to are about the "effect".
For an individual, man or woman, to have a high IQ it requires a balance upbringing in which all the "healthy" parameters are taken care of. Good food, housing, health, education, entertainment, access to technology, etc, etc.
IQ tests are about "figures", charts, math and intelligence. Even if you keep a white person isolated in an island for a long period of time, he will not be able to pass an IQ test.
You raise a balck and a white with same opportunities and accomodations, from health and education to housing and food, and test them both at ,say, age 20. Then compare the result. I would have more regards for that test and/or "experiment" than a phoney bell curve which is a white instrument justifying years of oppresion, prejudice and racism in Amerika and her institutions.
2003-05-24 22:10 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 24 2003, 15:58 There is a subtle difference between "cause" and "effect", which either you are ignorant about or are deliberately ignoring.
No, we are not.
For an individual, man or woman, to have a high IQ it requires a balance upbringing in which all the "healthy" parameters are taken care of.
How do you explain the fact that [url=http://www.aamc.org/diversity/amicusbrief.pdf]Whites and Asians from economically diadvanatged homes (making less than 30,000$ a year) score higher than blacks form households making over 80,000$ a year[/url]? Perhaps the parents neglect their children and use their money to buy crack and bling-blings?
Good food, housing, health, education, entertainment, access to technology, etc, etc.
Even when White, Asian and Black children are adopted shortly after birth and reared in a white middle-class environment, IQ disparities remain. [img]http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/images/jpr21-chart7.jpg[/img]
IQ tests are about "figures", charts, math and intelligence. Even if you keep a white person isolated in an island for a long period of time, he will not be able to pass an IQ test.
IQ tests aren't "passsed" as they aren't test of academic achievement or aptitude, but rather of intelligence.
You raise a balck and a white with same opportunities and accomodations, from health and education to housing and food, and test them both at ,say, age 20. Then compare the result.
See the results above.
I would have more regards for that test and/or "experiment" than a phoney bell curve which is a white instrument justifying years of oppresion, prejudice and racism in Amerika and her institutions.
The Bell Curve is an excellent bok, written by two fully credential, accomplished academics. Simply dismissing it because it contradicts your utopian fantasies is not a good argument.
2003-05-24 22:22 | User Profile
I would have more regards for that test and/or "experiment" than a phoney bell curve which is a white instrument justifying years of oppresion, prejudice and racism in Amerika and her institutions.
Listen, troll, negroes would still be raping babies and eating each other if it wasn't for the misguided benevolence of the White man.
Shouldn't that tell you something? Ya think!
2003-05-24 22:25 | User Profile
Originally posted by Valley Forge@May 24 2003, 16:22 ** Listen, troll, negroes would still be raping babies and eating each other if it wasn't for the misguided benevolence of the White man.
Shouldn't that tell you something? Ya think! **
They are still doing all those things, even with the misguided benevolence of the White man in South Africa...
2003-05-25 01:23 | User Profile
What a load of sh*t from a bunch of miserable, racist, arroganrt and "white" morons.
You with your comments and illogical rational only demonstrate how stupid and actually dangerous you conservative KKK rednecks are.
Our world would be much better and safer without you drivelling trolls, believe me you punks.
2003-05-25 02:03 | User Profile
** Rainman wrote:
Our world would be much better and safer without you drivelling trolls, believe me you punks. **
Hey, I believe ya, Rainy....you tell doze eeeevil wedneck dudeskis where it be at, yo! Saaayy....ya got any Karl Marx on ya? I'll take a few bags -- the light kind, 'cause I ain't ready for the heavy stuff, yet, homedawg.....word! :lol: :lol: :lol:
2003-05-25 04:19 | User Profile
Rainman, as probably the first Black person to join Original Dissent, I too had a tough time swallowing the stuff that's posted here at first. But considering that you've only most recently joined us here at OD, to simply dismiss these guys as "white racist rednecks" is a bit premature, don't you think? Give your membership here some time to evolve and I'm sure you will find that there is a lot of truth to what's being said here -- especially in regards to Jews and their involvement in both American politics and foreign policy.
I know this might be asking much of you, but try to keep an open and objective mind as I have. As a veteran OD'er, I can tell you that once you move beyond all the politically incorrect mumbo jumbo, most of the guys here are pretty bright and decent folk (with the exception of Franco...:lol: :lol:).
If you're curious about my thoughts on the matter of race, I pretty much stated my thoughts in a previous topic posted below.
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=5923]Some Thoughts on Racial Differences and Prejudice[/url]
2003-05-25 05:34 | User Profile
Yes, the emphasis on ââ¬Åwhiteââ¬Â morons and KKK rednecks hints strongly of brother at work, as does the peculiar fixation with intelligence levels of races. I suspect most of us rather hope that Rainman is a brother, for it would be more trying to have to deal with yet another deluded and self-hating white boy, especially while visiting a domain many blissfully assume to be free of such vermin.
I personally see enough of the critters while engaged in normal daily chores and Iââ¬â¢ve no appetite for much the same during time of leisure. One can readily understand a brotherââ¬â¢s passion, but a race-traitor merits no excuse or pity. This type, I would put to the sword at first convenience.
Surely a Black man versed in logic accepts as given the fact that no race comes close to matching the benevolence White Americans have shown to their black countrymen. All one needs to do is compare migration rates from Africa to America and vice-versa. The non-existence of the latter phenomena yields only one conclusion: Blessed be the Blacks who succeed in departing their wretched continent to live in America and endure her ââ¬Åsystemic oppression and prejudice.ââ¬Â Or perhaps you entertain thoughts of better bargain from Asians or Muslims? This would be a riot. :y
If so, I guarantee that in time you will think back to the gentle ways of the KKK.
2003-05-25 08:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 24 2003, 20:23 *What a load of sht from a bunch of miserable, racist, arroganrt and "white" morons.
You with your comments and illogical rational only demonstrate how stupid and actually dangerous you conservative KKK rednecks are. **
How can you say that? I'm a huge Lionel Ritchie fan! :crybaby:
Seriously, I did have Public Enemy's "It Takes a Nation of Millions..." cranked-up in the Tundra just the day before yesterday. 'Course now I have to wash it down with Johnny Reb's "Cajun KKK." You know, bein' a redneck and all.
;) :lol:
2003-05-26 10:28 | User Profile
The three steps of (d)evolution in liberal debate:
Baseless assertion:
White America does commit more crime per capita, and yet %70 of 2M America's prisoners are black or color. Why is that?
Rank emotionalism:
[the] phoney bell curve [is] a white instrument justifying years of oppresion, prejudice and racism in Amerika and her institutions.
Puerile ad hominem:
What a load of sh*t from a bunch of miserable, racist, arroganrt and "white" morons.
Even the Swiss could not develop a timepiece this reliable.
2003-05-26 12:59 | User Profile
Originally posted by kminta@May 25 2003, 04:19 ** Rainman, as probably the first Black person to join Original Dissent, I too had a tough time swallowing the stuff that's posted here at first. But considering that you've only most recently joined us here at OD, to simply dismiss these guys as "white racist rednecks" is a bit premature, don't you think? Give your membership here some time to evolve and I'm sure you will find that there is a lot of truth to what's being said here -- especially in regards to Jews and their involvement in both American politics and foreign policy.
I know this might be asking much of you, but try to keep an open and objective mind as I have. As a veteran OD'er, I can tell you that once you move beyond all the politically incorrect mumbo jumbo, most of the guys here are pretty bright and decent folk (with the exception of Franco...:lol: :lol:).
If you're curious about my thoughts on the matter of race, I pretty much stated my thoughts in a previous topic posted below.
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=5923]Some Thoughts on Racial Differences and Prejudice[/url] **
Thanks for that, Kminta.
It's always a pleasure.
Walter
2003-05-26 23:40 | User Profile
**Rainman, as probably the first Black person to join Original Dissent, I too had a tough time swallowing the stuff that's posted here at first. **
If anything, you have got the balls and courage to admit possessing a low IQ!
Never seen a black like you, man! :D
(Or maybe you are a zionist troll passing yourself as a black. Jews are master of deceit and disinformation, capishi?)
2003-05-27 00:32 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 26 2003, 17:40 **If anything, you have got the balls and courage to admit possessing a low IQ!
Never seen a black like you, man! :D
(Or maybe you are a zionist troll passing yourself as a black. Jews are master of deceit and disinformation, capishi?)**
Rest assure, Rainman, that I am anything but a zionist troll. I'm 100% Black and proud, brotha :D. Ultimately, I'm just a guy with a strong desire to know how the world around me really works. Original Dissent, I feel, is as good a place as any in my objective search for the whole truth.
From my post on Racial Differences and Prejudices, you might have gotten the impression that I'm one of those self-hating Blacks sucking up to Whitey. While I don't consider myself an "Uncle Tom", I have, however, taken a painstaking look at the current state of Black America and I'm in agreement with Black conservative [url=http://www.issues-views.com]Elizabeth Wright[/url] that it is seriously flawed and in need of repair.
But enough about me and my motives. Welcome to OD, Rainman. Just try to keep an open mind here and you'll do fine.
2003-05-27 01:19 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 26 2003, 16:40 ** If anything, you have got the balls and courage to admit possessing a low IQ! **
Actually, without knowing a person but only his race one can only assign a probability of having an IQ within some range. kminta probably has a higher than average IQ, judging from his posts.
2003-05-27 03:05 | User Profile
Kminta has had to read some harsh rhetoric here, yet has never squawked, nor cried victim, nor attempted to counter-lecture us. His tenure and his comportment here have been exceedingly honorable.
2003-05-27 03:17 | User Profile
madrussian, that quote you put from me up there, is in reference to kminta's assertions that he agrees with whatever does white people think and say here about blacks. That was, to say the least, shocking to me, for all his socio/economic problems and pain and sufferings are caused to him by whites.
====================================================
kminta, I just hope that you are not "one of those self-hating Blacks sucking up to Whitey". Because if you are, I then can't be more catholic than pope.
Instead of "keeping open mind" and believeing what white people say here about the low IQ's of blacks, I suggest you to search the truth by finding out the roots of oppresions, and the roots of black's failures in Amerikan society. Blacks, given the chance, can excel and progress in any and every aspect of life in Amerika, and do fine, if not better, in daily socio/economic activities. Amerika has failed blacks, and for that shame on her.
2003-05-27 03:31 | User Profile
Rainman, we had a thread where posters described themselves to the degree they felt comfortable with. I don't know if you are for real and not a troll, but if you are, I'd be curious to know where people like you come from. :afro:
2003-05-27 03:32 | User Profile
...for all his socio/economic problems and pain and sufferings are caused to him by whites.
The fact that kminta does not cling to such a stupid and ridiculous belief such as "all my problems are caused by Whitey" is a testament to his intelligence and common sense.
2003-05-27 04:34 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 26 2003, 21:17 **madrussian, that quote you put from me up there, is in reference to kminta's assertions that he agrees with whatever does white people think and say here about blacks. That was, to say the least, shocking to me, for all his socio/economic problems and pain and sufferings are caused to him by whites.
==================================================== kminta, I just hope that you are not "one of those self-hating Blacks sucking up to Whitey". Because if you are, I then can't be more catholic than pope.
Instead of "keeping open mind" and believeing what white people say here about the low IQ's of blacks, I suggest you to search the truth by finding out the roots of oppresions, and the roots of black's failures in Amerikan society. Blacks, given the chance, can excel and progress in any and every aspect of life in Amerika, and do fine, if not better, in daily socio/economic activities. Amerika has failed blacks, and for that shame on her.**
For your information, Rainman, I don't agree with everything Whitey tells me. When a White person says "jump", you'll never hear me to say "how high?". My views on race may seem at odds with those held by the majority of Black America, but that's only because I've moved beyond the "Blame Whitey" mindset and realize that maybe Black failures in America aren't so much the White Man's fault after all.
No one can deny the brutal and unfortunate history of racism Blacks have endured in this country. But we Blacks are not the only group who have been oppressed historically. How come other racial groups such as Asians, Arabs, and Native Americans don't exhibit the unique problems experienced by Blacks, such as high crime (Black-on-Black), an over-dependence of welfare, absentee fathers, etc? And how come some fifty/sixty years ago (when white racism and discrimination was far less discret), these problems were virtually unheard of?
Look, Rainman. All I'm say is that Blacks have spent nearly fourty years holding Whites responsible for our woes and it has gotten us nowhere. Perhaps it's time we Blacks started looking within ourselves for the solutions to our plight instead of putting the blame where it probably doesn't belong.
2003-05-29 17:29 | User Profile
[url=http://moe.speakout.com/activism/race/]http://moe.speakout.com/activism/race/[/url]
2003-05-29 23:35 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@May 29 2003, 11:29 [url=http://moe.speakout.com/activism/race/]http://moe.speakout.com/activism/race/[/url]
Nice link, Rainman. But I'd appreciate it if you could answer some of the questions I asked earlier.
How come other racial groups such as Asians, Arabs, and Native Americans don't exhibit the unique problems experienced by Blacks, such as high crime (Black-on-Black), an over-dependence of welfare, absentee fathers, etc? And how come some fifty/sixty years ago (when white racism and discrimination was far less discret), these problems were virtually unheard of?
P.S.: If you've already come to the conclusion that I'm a "Sell Out" or a "Uncle Tom", I think you should know that labels and name-calling are useless here.
2003-05-30 03:37 | User Profile
I've always found it odd that Asians have no need for, ahem, "Affirmative Action" [=Yes Action=Marxist/Yiddishspeak designed to fool Sally VotingMom and her hubby JimI'mNotAnEvilRacist into thinking that reverse racism is not occurring when it is; Jews from Back East invented it].
An Asian with a pencil can do great damage to Whites in math class. The Asian doesn't even need a calculator. Why dat be, homedawgie Rainman?
Are we all really, really, weally the same, Rainykins? Is a Somali Bantu your equal, Rainster? [Not that I have anything aginst Bantus -- heck, some of my best fwends be Bantus, 'specially mah main bro, Ummagumma Foomagoom].
:D :D :lol: :lol:
2003-05-30 04:15 | User Profile
This thread is still going? Hey, if Asians are so talented at math, why are most of the world's top mathematicians white? No, can't go there. Because we'll be getting into the area of differences, again. That wide spread of Caucasian IQ, the Asians and their high average on visuospatial tests (good for math, right Rainman?), and other unpleasant realities.
Rainman is a troll stumbling along without too much ammunition. His pleading with kminta is almost sickening. The fact that kminta can put up with some of the things posted here is a sign of strong character.
2003-05-30 08:13 | User Profile
Roger Bannister, I am not a troll, are you?
2003-06-06 15:13 | User Profile
Kminta:
How come other racial groups such as Asians, Arabs, and Native Americans don't exhibit the unique problems experienced by Blacks, such as high crime (Black-on-Black), an over-dependence of welfare, absentee fathers, etc? And how come some fifty/sixty years ago (when white racism and discrimination was far less discret), these problems were virtually unheard of?
Blacks were one of the first groups arriving to the shores of US some 400-500 years ago from West Africa. You know that they were used and bought and sold as slaves from the get go. So the problems of Blacks are deep rooted, complex and historical.
Other groups you have referred to, have only come to US maybe as late as only 150 years ago in case of Asians, and Arabs maybe 50-60 years ago. These two groups have come voluntarily and through hard work and support from their community have tried to avoid crime within their community and in US at large. It goes without saying that every community has criminal elements within them. (Vietnamese gangs for example.)
In addition, Asians and Arabs, for example, have had strong religious belief and possess a long history, spanning thousands of years, which have been another factor for them being able to behave in US.
Inferiority complex caused to Blacks, by whites, over the years and centuries, through oppression and discrimination in each and every aspect of life, should neither be ignored nor underestimated. As I said the problem is deep rooted, spanning over the centuries, and it will take years, perhaps centuries to heal the wound.
To add insult to injury and salt to the wound, US administrators have paid very little attention (if any) to the Black's social problems over the years, resulting the problems to remain intact and make further roots in the American psyche.
Blacks, in another sense, are first Americans together with Native Americans, and own America. Whereas other groups arriving later (Immigrants) are kind of Guests.
I have tried briefly answer your question, but it of course can be further explored.
2003-06-06 19:00 | User Profile
If black "inferiority complex" brought on by whites is behind the bad behavior and low IQs of blacks, how come the same patterns are found in places with no white people--and in fact, are much more pronounced? (You also didn't answer the question as to why black social problems were less pronounced 50 years ago, but I probably don't need to tell you that.)
If blacks are "first Americans" and 'own' America, what about the first Europeans onshore and their descendents? And I'm curious how many asians you know with "strong religious beliefs". I don't know any. In fact, I know far many more black Christians.
2003-06-08 04:19 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@Jun 6 2003, 09:13 **Kminta:
How come other racial groups such as Asians, Arabs, and Native Americans don't exhibit the unique problems experienced by Blacks, such as high crime (Black-on-Black), an over-dependence of welfare, absentee fathers, etc? And how come some fifty/sixty years ago (when white racism and discrimination was far less discret), these problems were virtually unheard of?
Blacks were one of the first groups arriving to the shores of US some 400-500 years ago from West Africa. You know that they were used and bought and sold as slaves from the get go. So the problems of Blacks are deep rooted, complex and historical.
Other groups you have referred to, have only come to US maybe as late as only 150 years ago in case of Asians, and Arabs maybe 50-60 years ago. These two groups have come voluntarily and through hard work and support from their community have tried to avoid crime within their community and in US at large. It goes without saying that every community has criminal elements within them. (Vietnamese gangs for example.)
In addition, Asians and Arabs, for example, have had strong religious belief and possess a long history, spanning thousands of years, which have been another factor for them being able to behave in US.
Inferiority complex caused to Blacks, by whites, over the years and centuries, through oppression and discrimination in each and every aspect of life, should neither be ignored nor underestimated. As I said the problem is deep rooted, spanning over the centuries, and it will take years, perhaps centuries to heal the wound.
To add insult to injury and salt to the wound, US administrators have paid very little attention (if any) to the Black's social problems over the years, resulting the problems to remain intact and make further roots in the American psyche.
Blacks, in another sense, are first Americans together with Native Americans, and own America. Whereas other groups arriving later (Immigrants) are kind of Guests.
I have tried briefly answer your question, but it of course can be further explored.**
A good argument there, Rainman. I agree with you that Blacks in America do suffer from an inferiority complex. And yes, part of that is due to White Racism throughout the centuries. As far as I'm concerned, no one can make you feel inferior unless you let them. As for slavery affecting Black behavior, I think Thomas Sowell put it best in his article [url=http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1006/article/1090]History Swept Under the Rug[/url] by stating, "The most painful of all truths is that slavery existed all over this planet, among people of every race and color, for thousands of years. Nobody wanted to be a slave, but that is completely different from saying that they opposed slavery for others. Slavery was as accepted in Africa as it was in Europe or Asia, or among the indigenous peoples of the Western Hemisphere." Also, did you know that Whites were not the only slaverowners. That Blacks also owned slaves. Check out [url=http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1006/article/1091]Black Slaveowners[/url] and read for yourself.
History, unfortunately, is filled with examples of oppression and discrmination. Native-Americans lost the land they originally occupied to the White Man. Yet they don't exhibit the behaviors Blacks do, nor do they adhere to their painful past as an endless excuse for unacceptable behavior. And what about Asians, particularly the Japanese-Americans, who were put in internment camps following Pearl Harbor. Do they suffer from an inferiority complex the way Blacks do? And what about Jews and the holocaust? They certainly don't exhibit an inferiority complex as a result of their negative experiences (in fact, quite the opposite).
But really, Rainman, are we Blacks always going to keep blaming our past for affecting our present? Are we always going to use slavery as an excuse for our actions and irresponsibility? Do you honestly believe that our ancestors would have wanted that for us? I believe that Blacks can honor our past and the memory of our ancestors by rising above this so-called inferiority complex and moving foward to achieve a brighter future. I believe that by clinging onto past grievances, Blacks are preventing themselves from moving foward toward a better tomorrow.
P.S.: You failed to give me a logical reason why the problems currently facing Black America was not the case over half-a-century ago -- when White Racism and discrimination was at its worse.
2003-06-08 06:10 | User Profile
But really, Rainman, are we Blacks always going to keep blaming our past for affecting our present? Are we always going to use slavery as an excuse for our actions and irresponsibility? Do you honestly believe that our ancestors would have wanted that for us? I believe that Blacks can honor our past and the memory of ancestors by rising above this so-called inferiority complex and moving foward from to achieve a brighter future. I believe that by clinging onto past grievances, Blacks are preventing themselves from moving foward toward a better tomorrow. ****
I agree totally with the bold area, however for the first part of the quote, I must say that I think the problem is that Blacks have not kept up with the new tricks coming out from the white sleeves every now and then. A way to keep up to date with the white tricks would have been entering white school and getting white eduacation and trainnig in the modern Art and Technology, in Sociology and Economics and all other sciences. You see, it is kind of a catch 22, whites discriminated balcks because whites did not want the blacks to catch up with the tricks of the trade, Modern economics and Management, etc...and blacks are trapped because they do not have the means to open up their own Universities and colleges, cross the country, coast to coast.
As to "why the problems currently facing Black America was not the case over half-a-century ago -- when White Racism and discrimination what at its worse." , I can only say that, there is no (logical) reason problems of the today should be identical to the problems of the 2 years ago or even "over half-a-century ago". But what is certain, is that without mistakes of the past there can be no misery of today. All I am saying is that blacks should not blame themselves for the atrocities of the white. Whites had power, money, guns and ammunition, blacks did not. There could be many number of other reasons why blacks failed to stop whites taking them as slaves.
If the racism problem was more rampant 50 years ago and is not more evident today, does not mean that white have become more gentle and more human. The goal, unfortunately, has stayed the same but the tactics of today are different than those used 50 or more years ago. Today in some jobs they require your picture too along with your resume. Now who is to force an employer to hire a black if s/he does not want to?
Blacks may not be banned entering a particular city or restaurant as it was the case before, but they are kept deprived economically, and without money and a job you can't do nothing.
Never stay behind the game of the white capitalist, which pray on blacks and minorities, by divide and conquer.
2003-06-08 18:04 | User Profile
Rainman
I agree totally with the bold area, however for the first part of the quote, I must say that I think the problem is that Blacks have not kept up with the new tricks coming out from the white sleeves every now and then. A way to keep up to date with the white tricks would have been entering white school and getting white eduacation and trainnig in the modern Art and Technology, in Sociology and Economics and all other sciences. You see, it is kind of a catch 22, whites discriminated balcks because whites did not want the blacks to catch up with the tricks of the trade, Modern economics and Management, etc...and blacks are trapped because they do not have the means to open up their own Universities and colleges, cross the country, coast to coast.
If Whites are holding Blacks back so much, then how come Blacks succeeded and progressed during the time of segregation, a period in which things were supposedly bad for Blacks in America? Elizabeth Wright provides articles and biographies of post-slavery blacks who took the necessary initiatives to productively use the American system that others had misused against them. This was possible because of America's unique constitutional foundation, which allowed even the former slave to apply his entrepreneurial talents to his own benefit. In a time when Blacks could not enjoy any of the liberties they do now, there were Blacks who refused to believe that they could not make it in America -- like resourceful businessman S.B. Fuller, who chastised political elites for misleading blacks into social programs; or realtor Philip Payton, who prevented a mass eviction of blacks in Harlem by purchasing the targeted buildings; or Garnet Baltimore, a civil engineer, who was an 1881 graduate of Renssalaer Polytechnic Institute. Check out [url=http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1000]When We Were Colored[/url] to learn about these and other extraordinary Blacks and maybe you'll see that the past wasn't so bad after all.
All I am saying is that blacks should not blame themselves for the atrocities of the white. Whites had power, money, guns and ammunition, blacks did not. There could be many number of other reasons why blacks failed to stop whites taking them as slaves.
While I don't believe that Whites are totally guiltless for the plight of Blacks, I do believe that the weight of responsibility falls on Blacks for not holding ourselves to a higher standard. Indeed, Blacks are not responsible for the atrocities of Whites, but we have no one to blame but ourselves for the consequences of our own actions and inactions; the things we do by our own free will. Asians, Arabs, and Native-Americans may not have suffered in the exact way that we Blacks have, but suffered they have, in their own way and to their own degree. But they don't have any of the problems that we do, and maybe that's because they hold themselves to a certain standard. Maybe its time we Blacks started holding ourselves to a higher standard as well. Maybe then our problems would not exist, or at least not as severe.
2003-06-08 18:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by Rainman@Jun 8 2003, 06:10 ** All I am saying is that blacks should not blame themselves for the atrocities of the white. Whites had power, money, guns and ammunition, blacks did not. There could be many number of other reasons why blacks failed to stop whites taking them as slaves.
**
Rainman,
This insight could start a thread or a forum all by itself.
The main reason blacks were enslaved with relative ease was they trusted tribal leaders and Arab traders a little too much.
Now flash-forward about 500 years:
Right now, Americans who are black, white, red and so on are hopelessly trusting politicians who are globalizing the economy, failing to protect the borders, involving us in unnecessary foreign wars... and so on. See a pattern here?
In some ways we are all too gullible, every American not part of the elite. And that gullibility has roots in our genetic/historic experience. Poor Europeans were fragmented and trusted their feudal dukes. African tribesmen were fragmented and trusted their elders and smooth-talking Arabs and Dutch traders.
We must learn to trust each other a little; together we must learn to mistrust the elite a lot.
2003-06-09 05:44 | User Profile
Originally posted by kminta@Jun 8 2003, 18:04 ** If Whites are holding Blacks back so much, then how come Blacks succeeded and progressed during the time of segregation, a period in which things were supposedly bad for Blacks in America? Elizabeth Wright provides articles and biographies of post-slavery blacks who took the necessary initiatives to productively use the American system that others had misused against them. This was possible because of America's unique constitutional foundation, which allowed even the former slave to apply his entrepreneurial talents to his own benefit. In a time when Blacks could not enjoy any of the liberties they do now, there were Blacks who refused to believe that they could not make it in America -- like resourceful businessman S.B. Fuller, who chastised political elites for misleading blacks into social programs; or realtor Philip Payton, who prevented a mass eviction of blacks in Harlem by purchasing the targeted buildings; or Garnet Baltimore, a civil engineer, who was an 1881 graduate of Renssalaer Polytechnic Institute. Check out When We Were Colored to learn about these and other extraordinary Blacks and maybe you'll see that the past wasn't so bad after all.
**
I agree with this, Kminta. Well put.
The Civil Rights Movement's insistence on integration was pure insanity. It was a disaster for both blacks and whites. Blacks should have worked instead for equal funding of segregated institutions, instead of listening to our Elder Brothers in Faith and helping them crash the gates of WASP privilege. But even a more equitable segregation ultimately wouldn't have worked, as black demands on white resources would be the source of constant friction rendering the structure unstable. Territorial separation, not segregation within the same country, is the only reliable way forward.
The simple truth is that blacks and whites are too different in their average talents and proclivities to ever hope to share the same territory in peace. If American history has proved anything, it has proved this unfortunate fact. Slavery and Jim Crow followed by an endless cycle of black crime and failure and recriminations and breast-beating - these are the wages of our "diversity" delusion. It has to stop.
I'm very interested in discussing implementing a peaceful separation with black nationalists, with whom I have much in common. A true nationalist watches out for his own but understands that his own nation's sovereignty and prosperity imply the recognition of reciprocal rights of other nations to territorial sovereignty, cultural autonomy, and genetic separation. We nationalists truly "celebrate diversity", since we respect the rights of others groups to maintain their unique traits instead of insisting PeeCee-like that we all meld into a dishwater brown, fast-food-gulping mass. There are a lot of good black nationalists out there, and I sure would like to hear from them here.
Regards,
Walter
2003-06-09 12:51 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Jun 9 2003, 09:30 ** Furthermore, I think kminta rocks for hanging out with us big bad evil white racists. He should get a merit badge or something.
**
I'll second that.
Rainman, too. :punk:
Walter
2003-06-09 13:28 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Jun 9 2003, 09:30 ** De Benoist and Champetier go on to make clear the distinction between the right to difference and racism. Racism, they say, is a theory which holds that there exist between races inequalities which mean that one can distinguish 'superior' and 'inferior' races, that the value of an individual can be deduced from which racial group he or she belongs to, and that race is the central explaining factor of human history. All three of these assertions, the writers maintain, are false. Races differ but one cannot put them in a hierarchy.
**
Truer words were never spoken.
For the record, I reject the whole notion that whites are "superior" to blacks or vice versa.
Nature and Nature's God designed us to fill differing ecological niches, that's all. I believe that once this fact is accepted, then it follows (assuming that we choose life and peace instead of discord and death) that we should respect Nature and separate into the environments and lifestyles for which we were designed.
As a Christian I affirm that there is no Greek or Jew, no black or white, no male or female, in Christ. That is, in the eyes of God and in terms of our salvation, we are truly all of equal value. But that doesn't mean that outside this most fundamental spiritual sense that we are "equal" in the prosaic meaning of there being no appreciable differences between the groups. There still are Jews and Greeks and males and females, for Heaven's sake. Christ didn't abolish gender and ethnicity. Those differences remain, and are to be celebrated.
For in Christ we truly are one out of many. We are very diverse, yet we share a common humanity - a humanity that was redeemed by God Himself. This realization of God's love for all men prompts us to respect and preserve our diversity through a guarantee of territorial sovereignty, genetic separation, and cultural autonomy for all nations.
Let the Jew be a Jew and the Greek be a Greek and a male be a male and a female be a female. We nationalists aren't the ones who want to change any of that. We like it just the way it is. We like ourselves and others just the way they are. If it ain't broke, don't fix, we say. And it ain't broke, because God made it and he said it was good indeed. And that means letting whites and blacks be what God created them, in His Infinite Wisdom.
We can work this out, folks. We really can. Once we can start talking openly about the obvious fact of our insuperable differences, then we can begin to speak about solutions in a reasoned way. But until then, we're condemned to repeat our very long and sorrowful history together.
And we can all wind up friends after the whole thing is complete, the tragic trespasses of our ancestors notwithstanding.
Let the discussion begin!
Walter