← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Zoroaster
Thread ID: 6591 | Posts: 28 | Started: 2003-05-10
2003-05-10 16:56 | User Profile
[url=http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0508-04.htm]http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0508-04.htm[/url]
Published on Thursday May 8, 2003 by the New York Times
Trouble in Bush's America
by Bob Herbert
While our "What, me worry?" president is having a great time with his high approval ratings and his "Top Gun" fantasies, the economy remains in the tank. And the finances of state and local governments are sinking tragically into ever deeper and ever more unforgiving waters.
You want shock and awe? Come to New York City, where jobs are hard to find and the budget (as residents are suddenly realizing) is a backbreaking regimen of service cuts, tax increases and that perennial painkiller, wishful thinking.
The biggest wish, of course, is that the national economy will suddenly turn around and flood the city and state with desperately needed revenues. Meanwhile, the soup kitchens and food pantries are besieged.
"This is the worst situation I've been in," said Alfonso Shynvwelski, an unemployed waiter who stood in a long line of people waiting for food at the Washington Heights Ecumenical Food Pantry on Broadway in upper Manhattan. Mr. Shynvwelski, 36, has worked at a number of upscale restaurants, including the Russian Tea Room, which has closed. He's been unemployed for a year.
"It's the first time in my life I've had to look for food this way," he said.
This lament is being heard more and more often in the city, which has an official jobless rate of nearly 9 percent. The real rate is substantially higher, which means that more than 1 in 10 New Yorkers who would like to work cannot find a job.
Last week Local 46 of the Metallic Lathers Union announced that it would allow 200 people to apply for membership, which would mean a shot at high-paying work. The line of applicants began at Third Avenue and 76th Street and almost circled the block. The earliest arrivals waited in line for three days. They slept on the sidewalk.
In George Bush's America, jobs get erased like chalk marks on a blackboard. More than 2 million have vanished on Mr. Bush's watch. There are now more than 10.2 million unemployed workers in the U.S., including 1.4 million who are not officially counted because they've become discouraged and stopped looking.
There are also 4.8 million men and women who are working part time because they can't find full-time jobs.
John Challenger, the chief executive of the outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, offered a cautionary word to the wishful thinkers who insist that prosperity is just around the corner. "The sharp increase in the job cuts last month," Mr. Challenger said, "should serve as a warning that it is premature to conclude that the quick end to the war in Iraq will bring a quick turnaround in the economy and job market."
The high unemployment and sharply reduced social services are having devastating consequences. In some cases people are being driven to destitution.
"This is a really spooky time for us," said John Hoffmann, who runs a food pantry and soup kitchen in the Bronx. He's faced with both a surge in demand and, because of government budget cuts, a threat to his financing.
"These are folks who are new to services like ours," Mr. Hoffmann said of his latest wave of clients. Many of them are working men and women who were struggling to support their families from one paycheck to the next. When workers in that situation are laid off, they have nothing to fall back on.
Nearly a quarter of a million jobs have been lost in New York City in the past two and a half years. Taxes are going up and services are going down ââ¬â and still that is not enough. Similar scenarios are being played out in city and state governments throughout the country.
California is trying to borrow its way out of a nightmarish crisis. Texas, already near the bottom nationally in social services, is heading further south.
Two forms of help from the federal government are needed. One is direct assistance to local governments to help alleviate the disastrous budget shortfalls. The other is an economic stimulus program that really works, that boosts the economy and creates jobs through investments in some of the nation's real needs, rather than simply transferring trainloads of money to the wealthy in the form of tax cuts.
Mr. Bush has no interest in such remedies. Easing the economic struggles of poor and working families in America is not part of his agenda.
====================================================== Bush' policy of prepetual war and tax cuts for the rich will destroy what remains of the middle-class and turn Armerica into a third-world nation.
2003-05-10 18:44 | User Profile
Two forms of help from the federal government are needed. One is direct assistance to local governments to help alleviate the disastrous budget shortfalls. The other is an economic stimulus program that really works, that boosts the economy and creates jobs through investments in some of the nation's real needs, rather than simply transferring trainloads of money to the wealthy in the form of tax cuts.
This is pure fluff.
Federal assistance is merely offloading problems, i.e., the paperwork gets done elsewhere, and does nothing to address the fact there is not enough money in the entire country to pay for goodies. The same people will have to pay for it and it is inconsequential whether federal or state governments do the bulk of tax extorting. Some would say that it does matter for the closer to home the final destination of the loot the greater the control of distribution and less waste. Though true, our economic ills today are greater by an order of magnitude and playing efficiency games will not hinder severely the general decline.
Economic stimulus packages, without knowing precisely what they entail, are more hot air since in addition to some form of tax cuts the usual process is to rearrange cash flow and target whatever is deemed to constitute growth industry while cutting back support of already spent sectors of the economy. Itââ¬â¢s a foregone conclusion that the fundamentals underlying the import/export imbalance will not be affected so long as Globalization is worshipped. Everything that needs to be done including such tenets as prohibition on exporting means of production, halting cheap labour importation, discouraging profligacy while encouraging the opposite, and rescinding free trade will not be done because our elites do not wish it.
Love the token throwaway line that ââ¬Åsimply transferring trainloads of money to the wealthy in the form of tax cutsââ¬Â is not enough. Of course not, but does he know who the really wealthy are and whether they are the driving force behind efforts to cut taxes? Tax relief is election candy dolled out by marionettes so they can remain on stage a while longer. Elites care little about excessive taxation as their income levels are more influenced by other factors. Their bottom line is electing pliable politicians and maintaining obedient populace.
Nitpicking aside, the conclusion is work of prescience:
Bush' policy of prepetual war and tax cuts for the rich will destroy what remains of the middle-class and turn Armerica into a third-world nation.
2003-05-10 19:44 | User Profile
Some folks call the study of economics the "dismal science." Apparently you don't share this view. Bush's economic policy, whichever way you turn it, spells misfortune for middle-class Americans. If it catches up with him before 2004, he will follow Bush the Elder as a one-term president.
2003-05-11 07:27 | User Profile
Iââ¬â¢m not sure what you mean by ââ¬Ådismal science.ââ¬Â Based on what I said, the only fitting interpretation of your comment is to ascribe the original meaning. It was, I think, used to reproach economists for their failure to implicate race and quality of population as a significant factor affecting a particular economy. If such was your thinking, you neednââ¬â¢t be concerned.
Typically, the bulk of my commentary concerns measures which may be considered by a closer-to-ideal state, and cannot, for obvious reasons, be contemplated as remedy in the environment of today, except as source of comic relief, for laughter alone supposedly cures many ills. I sometimes take it for granted that a superior society will be all-White.
The prior posting dealt with suggestions offered by a concerned and obviously well-intentioned individual and I felt obliged to toss out a handful of the perhaps more tolerable interventions necessary to relieve the faltering economy--the bare minimum required to effect the changes he so obviously desires. The trouble with most of his ilk is utter failure to even conceive of the frankly brutal interventions necessary to save something of our civilization.
That is not to say that well-oiled economic system demands as requisite a homogenous population. Aldous Huxley detailed a possible efficient society where genetic manipulation and conditioning combined to produce individuals whose abilities and temperaments were at least as varied as those of different races we know today. He reminded us that it is only a matter of control exercised by elites. And since thinking white men desire little or none, it is imperative that racial homogeneity be realized. Intra-racial genetic differences will furnish all the diversity we may desire.
As far as Iââ¬â¢m concerned, politics, economics and social norms are all under perpetual reconsideration, but maintenance of distinct Aryan genetic heritage, free of alien contamination as best as feasible, is an unalterable stipulation.
2003-05-11 19:09 | User Profile
It's so pathetically simple: reflate the economy by printing the money and giving - rather than loaning - it away.
But the Bankers, not the politicians, run the show - so your money will always be loaned to you for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment.......
2003-05-12 07:58 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 11 2003, 19:09 ** It's so pathetically simple: reflate the economy by printing the money and giving - rather than loaning - it away.
But the Bankers, not the politicians, run the show - so your money will always be loaned to you for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment....... **
Clearly the Fed will try to inflate - deflation is the problem now.
I wonder if it will work. As Japan found out the past 12 years, central bank interest rate reductions can have utterly perverse effects. Japan's central bank is basically giving money away now, and Japan isn't getting kick-started.
It's demographics, I'm convinced. Yggdrasil has some good stuff on this, but there are other writers who see demand deflation happening due to the declining share of young whites to produce and consume. This is so dangerous, though, you really have to watch for it to ever see it mentioned in the public debate. It's definitely there, though.
The big hope on the part of the Fed, I surmise, is to keep housing prices up in order to keep consumers confident and spending (no justification here, however - American's are mortgaged to the gills based on inflated housing prices). Low interest mortgages place upward pressure on housing prices, obviously. But it's coming to an end. I think that there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when the Fed will have cut interest rates as far as possible (say, another half point) and shortly after that mortgage rates will fall to record levels. But this won't do the trick to keep up consumer spending, and the market will get spooked good and housing prices will decline sharply - maybe even collapse.
If I have this figured correctly (a BIG HONKING IF), then within the next couple of years there will come a moment of record-low interest rates COMBINED WITH rock-bottom prices. Maybe even pre-1990 prices. It should be a good time to buy for those with a few bucks for a down payment.
Walter
2003-05-12 11:45 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 12 2003, 01:58 > Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 11 2003, 19:09 ** It's so pathetically simple: reflate the economy by printing the money and giving - rather than loaning - it away.
But the Bankers, not the politicians, run the show - so your money will always be loaned to you for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment....... **
Clearly the Fed will try to inflate - deflation is the problem now.
I wonder if it will work. As Japan found out the past 12 years, central bank interest rate reductions can have utterly perverse effects. Japan's central bank is basically giving money away now, and Japan isn't getting kick-started.**
A zero-interest loan still has to be repaid.
I'm talking about handing out money to consumers, with no repayment.
Admittedly, it would take a lot of giving away to get the Japanese consumers going, since they have experienced terrible declines in their equity-based savings and would tend to restore those positions before starting to purchase.
But printing money is inexpensive and so represents no obstacle to the quick and easy reflation of an economy. As always, one must guard against Eva Peron's administration of the giveaway program. :hyp:
I propose that we organize the "National Socialist Print the Money Party" (NSPMP)
[No, that sounds like we're pandering, doesn't it?]
What about the "National Socialist New Money Movement"? (NSNMM)
Yes - I like that. :punk:
2003-05-12 22:54 | User Profile
Walter Yannis[color=blue]> The big hope on the part of the Fed, I surmise, is to keep housing prices up in order to keep consumers confident and spending (no justification here, however - American's are mortgaged to the gills based on inflated housing prices). Low interest mortgages place upward pressure on housing prices, obviously. But it's coming to an end. I think that there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when the Fed will have cut interest rates as far as possible (say, another half point) and shortly after that mortgage rates will fall to record levels. But this won't do the trick to keep up consumer spending, and the market will get spooked good and housing prices will decline sharply - maybe even collapse.**
One of the great reasons for the economic malaise in Japan was that in 1989 young Japanese with a Nikkei approaching 40,000 found they could work their entire career at a big firm and still not afford to buy a house. Many gave up hope. Perhaps a sharp decline in the price of housing will help this economy.
2003-05-13 05:23 | User Profile
The economic war against the middle class has been waged for many decades. who else has the numbers and wealth, not to mention the stupidity to stand for such fleecing? The really rich are few in numbers and the lower classes simply consume and contribute nothing. Who else to go after but the middle class.
2003-05-13 05:28 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@May 12 2003, 22:54 ** Walter Yannis[color=blue]> The big hope on the part of the Fed, I surmise, is to keep housing prices up in order to keep consumers confident and spending (no justification here, however - American's are mortgaged to the gills based on inflated housing prices). Low interest mortgages place upward pressure on housing prices, obviously. But it's coming to an end. I think that there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when the Fed will have cut interest rates as far as possible (say, another half point) and shortly after that mortgage rates will fall to record levels. But this won't do the trick to keep up consumer spending, and the market will get spooked good and housing prices will decline sharply - maybe even collapse.**
One of the great reasons for the economic malaise in Japan was that in 1989 young Japanese with a Nikkei approaching 40,000 found they could work their entire career at a big firm and still not afford to buy a house. Many gave up hope. Perhaps a sharp decline in the price of housing will help this economy. **
Well, certainly it would return the thing to reality.
I confess to not understanding our economy. It all seems to be smoke and mirrors. Our industry is hallowed out, we imported millions of unskilled workers, we run ghastly trade and budget deficits for decades on end, $30 TRILLION in unfunded federal liabilities coming due in the next 20 years, personal debt at dizzying levels, and the bill never seems to come due.
I don't get it. I really don't. And I've never heard a convincing explanation for how the entire economy of the world can be held up by what look to be skyhooks.
My reason tells me that this can't go on. The corrections in the Dow and the NASDAQ were, in my opinion, not nearly enough. There's still lots of air in there. There has to be some sort of major reckoning.
Just speculating, but I wonder how much our elites are counting on cheap Iraqi oil to fund this stuff. Driving energy prices to all-time lows might get us over the next few speed bumps. I'd believe it if there was any talk of cutting back on spending and paying down debt, both state and personal, but all chips seem to be placed on another consumer-lead boom.
I'm so confused.
Walter
2003-05-13 12:00 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 12 2003, 23:28 **
I confess to not understanding our economy. It all seems to be smoke and mirrors. Our industry is hallowed out, we imported millions of unskilled workers, we run ghastly trade and budget deficits for decades on end, $30 TRILLION in unfunded federal liabilities coming due in the next 20 years, personal debt at dizzying levels, and the bill never seems to come due.
I'm so confused.
Walter**
I'm here to help, Walter - as always :hyp:
Your references are merely to pieces of paper, as-it-were, mere numbers in computers.
The physical economy sustains us materially, and there is no limit to the game of multiplying mere pieces of paper or digits in memory toward stimulating that economy.
I will show you how easy it is to generate and eliminate $30 TRILLION:
-30,000,000,000,000.00-
[u](30,000,000,000,000.00)[/u]
-00,000,000,000,000.00-
Come on and join the National Socialist New Money Movement! :punk:
Money for everyone!
2003-05-13 16:58 | User Profile
Walter Yannis Posted on May 12 2003, 01:58
American's are mortgaged to the gills based on inflated housing prices). Low interest mortgages place upward pressure on housing prices, obviously. But it's coming to an end. I think that there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when the Fed will have cut interest rates as far as possible (say, another half point) and shortly after that mortgage rates will fall to record levels. But this won't do the trick to keep up consumer spending, and the market will get spooked good and housing prices will decline sharply - maybe even collapse.
Yes, the housing bubble will pop, but Iââ¬â¢m not sure many will be in position to take advantage. The Ygg article youââ¬â¢re probably referring to uses the example of diamonds to point out that the quantity of some products has exceeded (or promptly will exceed) the demands of the likely consumer base. I.e., there are more stones in circulation than wives or future brides immersed in culture that demands they indulge in purchasing the stuff. The analogy, I suspect, need not be restricted to chattels. One can always upgrade a home and many will, particularly as the boomers get shuffled to nursing homes, but there is a limit to the number of perspective buyers a given populace may produce. Few aliens will be in position to take up the shortfall for itââ¬â¢s not likely that service industry wages will ever reach levels permitting major purchases. Further, most hail from traditional societies favouring extended home arrangements.
2003-05-13 17:08 | User Profile
That NN, what a trickster. :y
To further elucidate:
Competent steward need do but one thing--ensure production growth and income growth remain roughly inline. You deliver the goods, I pay for them and whether I part with $1 or $1,000,000 is irrelevant so long as there is agreement between us as to what purchasing power the money represents.
Since our current woes stem from income shortages NNââ¬â¢s plan would certainly fill the gab. My concern, however, would be with its implementation and keeping foreign serfs off our backs. We are told our economy is of the post-industrial variety, i.e., we exchange paper amongst ourselves but rely on others to produce necessities and luxuries for us. They would invariably imitate our move and print money so as to try and keep up, and the opposite of the present misalignment would follow--income levels would grow out of step with production. Again, it depends on how big a fish tank we think we need: A country, a continent, or a whole world, and wielding sufficient power to maintain order.
Further on giving away money, there is a stealthy aspect of this already underway. No one seriously believes that governmental debts will EVER be repaid. Corporate and private default rates are such that it is an industry in its own right. These are gifts in all but name. The donors may be private institutions, not government, but they perform a quintessential governmental function by maintaining the pretence that the current economy is viable. Altruism does not factor into it, for at stake is the survival of the usury game. Everyone has heard of the saying that if you owe the bank a few hundred you have a problem, but if you owe a few million the bank is the one saddled with the problem. Actually, not quite since the banking houses have loaned out more than their vaults can back up and they already do the thing NN suggests among friends and fellow bankers. In lieu of printing money they make numerical entries on terminals. Same thing, but the usury levied on consumers is quite real. Will the goyim ever catch on? :shock:
2003-05-14 07:12 | User Profile
Originally posted by Sisyfos@May 13 2003, 16:58 ** Walter Yannis Posted on May 12 2003, 01:58
American's are mortgaged to the gills based on inflated housing prices). Low interest mortgages place upward pressure on housing prices, obviously. But it's coming to an end. I think that there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when the Fed will have cut interest rates as far as possible (say, another half point) and shortly after that mortgage rates will fall to record levels. But this won't do the trick to keep up consumer spending, and the market will get spooked good and housing prices will decline sharply - maybe even collapse.
Yes, the housing bubble will pop, but Iââ¬â¢m not sure many will be in position to take advantage. The Ygg article youââ¬â¢re probably referring to uses the example of diamonds to point out that the quantity of some products has exceeded (or promptly will exceed) the demands of the likely consumer base. I.e., there are more stones in circulation than wives or future brides immersed in culture that demands they indulge in purchasing the stuff. The analogy, I suspect, need not be restricted to chattels. One can always upgrade a home and many will, particularly as the boomers get shuffled to nursing homes, but there is a limit to the number of perspective buyers a given populace may produce. Few aliens will be in position to take up the shortfall for itââ¬â¢s not likely that service industry wages will ever reach levels permitting major purchases. Further, most hail from traditional societies favouring extended home arrangements. **
There's been a good deal of speculation on this recently.
Businessweek had a thing on it not long ago.
American Conservative had a thing on it, too.
There's a consensus among the pundits that housing prices have sustained the consumer spending boom that has driven the economy and kept it out of recession, and that prices are unrealistic and consumers have taken out most of their equity anyway based on these unrealistically high prices.
We're bankrupt. That seems to be the conclusion.
I supsect that our financial elites know this (I mean, BW is talking about it) and they're hoping for the effects of really low oil prices to buoy up the economy when the housing market pops.
Walter
2003-05-14 13:13 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 14 2003, 01:12 **We're bankrupt. That seems to be the conclusion.
**
Walter, Walter, WALTER!
You winsome worry-wart!
"Bankruptcy" doesn't mean anything in this context!
Hold a gun to a banker's head and he'll do a little bookkeeping in your favor.
The physical economy will still be there.
Fear not.
Join the National Socialist New Money Movement.
Money for everyone. :rock:
2003-05-14 18:02 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 14 2003, 07:13 ** > Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 14 2003, 01:12 **We're bankrupt.ÃÂ That seems to be the conclusion.
**
Walter, Walter, WALTER!
You winsome worry-wart!
"Bankruptcy" doesn't mean anything in this context!
Hold a gun to a banker's head and he'll do a little bookkeeping in your favor.
The physical economy will still be there.
Fear not.
Join the National Socialist New Money Movement.
Money for everyone. :rock: **
NN, do you suggest, then, that we stock up on gold and other precious metals to maintain our wealth?
2003-05-15 09:26 | User Profile
Originally posted by skemper@May 14 2003, 18:02 ** > Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 14 2003, 07:13 ** > Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 14 2003, 01:12 **We're bankrupt.ÃÂ That seems to be the conclusion.
**
Walter, Walter, WALTER!
You winsome worry-wart!
"Bankruptcy" doesn't mean anything in this context!
Hold a gun to a banker's head and he'll do a little bookkeeping in your favor.
The physical economy will still be there.
Fear not.
Join the National Socialist New Money Movement.
Money for everyone. :rock: **
NN, do you suggest, then, that we stock up on gold and other precious metals to maintain our wealth? **
I think that gold is probably a good bet now.
Personally, I'm keeping my savings in Euros, but my situation allows me to do that more easily than most. I think that the dollar will continue to decline against the Euro, and probably also the Swiss Franc, the Yen, and other major currencies.
Walter
2003-05-15 11:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by skemper@May 14 2003, 12:02 NN, do you suggest, then, that we stock up on gold and other precious metals to maintain our wealth?
I'm suggesting that White-brained people cooperate toward rescuing their money held hostage by the Jewish banksters.
Individuals are no longer in a position to protect themselves.
2003-05-15 18:04 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 15 2003, 11:15 ** > Originally posted by skemper@May 14 2003, 12:02 NN, do you suggest, then, that we stock up on gold and other precious metals to maintain our wealth?
I'm suggesting that White-brained people cooperate toward rescuing their money held hostage by the Jewish banksters.
Individuals are no longer in a position to protect themselves. **
Is your proposal simply to devalue the currency by the amount of the debt by printing and giving away dollars to whites?
That's my understanding of you posts above.
Please explain.
Walter
2003-05-15 19:33 | User Profile
Originally posted by Walter Yannis@May 15 2003, 12:04 > Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 15 2003, 11:15 ** > Originally posted by skemper@May 14 2003, 12:02 NN, do you suggest, then, that we stock up on gold and other precious metals to maintain our wealth?**
I'm suggesting that White-brained people cooperate toward rescuing their money held hostage by the Jewish banksters.
Individuals are no longer in a position to protect themselves. **
Is your proposal simply to devalue the currency by the amount of the debt by printing and giving away dollars to whites?
That's my understanding of you posts above.
Please explain.
Walter**
The proposal would be to expand the money supply in circulation until all productive resources are at full employment. The currency is not "devalued" when the equation PQ=MV involves an increase in Q proportional to M. Monetizing debt would tend first to obviate economic contraction, rather than to stimulate inflation, in the present context.
This is Milton Friedman's old suggestion, but involving giving away the money, rather than loaning it out with the cyclical deflationary bias instrinsic thereto. Friedman proposed 3% per anum sustainable money growth and expansion of the physical economy.
2003-05-18 08:15 | User Profile
It's demographics, I'm convinced. Yggdrasil has some good stuff on this, but there are other writers who see demand deflation happening due to the declining share of young whites to produce and consume. This is so dangerous, though, you really have to watch for it to ever see it mentioned in the public debate. It's definitely there, though.
I agree with this line of analysis. There's a point at which the number of techno-civilizational challenged nonwhites becomes too big for the menial labor market to absorb and their draining of the public coffers becomes too great for the productive population to shoulder. We may be entering a japanesque long term contraction. Things should get really interesting.
At some point, the economic collapse of America is inevitable with current demographic trends. Brazil is coming.
2003-05-18 08:49 | User Profile
Deflation is worse than inflation because falling revenues will cause businesses to lay off workers. The financial bubble is already leaking, at some point it will break. Depression may be exactly what our ruling class wants. It will supply almost unlimited manpower for the American military machine to take out Israel's enemies. Who knows, at some point America may even launch another Normandy Invasion into Europe's heartland.
2003-05-18 15:27 | User Profile
Originally posted by NeoNietzsche@May 11 2003, 13:09 **
But the Bankers, not the politicians, run the show - so your money will always be loaned to you for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment with money that was loaned for repayment.......**
Yeah, deficit financing -- we pay interest to a private corporation on all the money in circulation. If the national debt was paid off all the money in the street would vanish. They have us paying a rental fee on the medium of exchange. I wonder how much the Fed nets a year, or is that a secret? Needless to say the majority stockholders are Jewish with an exception or two (a Rockefeller). A majority of the stockholders are foreign. The founding fathers would declare war over this situation. A great book on the subject is the Creature from Jekyll Island.
2003-05-18 15:44 | User Profile
Originally posted by Sisyfos@May 13 2003, 10:58 The Ygg article youââ¬â¢re probably referring to uses the example of diamonds to point out that the quantity of some products has exceeded (or promptly will exceed) the demands of the likely consumer base. I.e., there are more stones in circulation than wives or future brides immersed in culture that demands they indulge in purchasing the stuff.
I think one of the angles on diamonds is that traditionally the engagement diamond is bought brand spanking new. What kind of man would go to the pawn shop to get his bride a used diamond? That kind of man would most likely not purchase a diamond to begin with. So the question revolves around new diamonds in circulation versus new brides. The diamond cartel can control that I think. Diamonds are another inner party monopoly anyway, like jeans and pickles. I can't bear to purchase pickles anymore, and I have a hard enough time purchasing blue jeans, as they are all inner party -- except I think for Dickies.
2003-05-18 16:12 | User Profile
Dr. Pendal's fine little book "why civilizations perish" covers the demographic issues raised here very well. I suggest we all get a copy. With respect to economics I would suggest that N.S. fiscal stuff I have mentioned here many times in the past be considered along with the distributalism/guildism material I often cite. Remember the Mongradon projects which has been stunningly successful in numerous parts of the globe.
2003-05-19 06:48 | User Profile
[img]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/images/mail/gwandpope.gif[/img]
2003-05-19 12:08 | User Profile
Originally posted by triskelion@May 18 2003, 16:12 ** Dr. Pendal's fine little book "why civilizations perish" covers the demographic issues raised here very well. I suggest we all get a copy. **
I did get a copy! For anyone who needs one, cheap used copy can be had at Bookfinder,com or abe.com. Also always check Ebay (and their Half.com shop available at the same site.)
Pendall develops all this further in another book called, I think, "Sex and Civilization."
Just for the record demographics might not be the core issue. A consumer-driven junk economy that forgets the value of hard work may have no future no matter what the population base consists of. Just a thought.
2003-05-19 12:58 | User Profile
Originally posted by triskelion@May 18 2003, 16:12 ** Dr. Pendal's fine little book "why civilizations perish" covers the demographic issues raised here very well. I suggest we all get a copy. With respect to economics I would suggest that N.S. fiscal stuff I have mentioned here many times in the past be considered along with the distributalism/guildism material I often cite. Remember the Mongradon projects which has been stunningly successful in numerous parts of the globe. **
I'll get a copy.
Also a fine analysis of the topic of economic collapse is [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052138673X/qid=1053349085/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-5146557-2066362?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]The Collapse of Complex Societies.[/url]
This one is on the "must" list.
Walter