← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Conservative
Thread ID: 6403 | Posts: 38 | Started: 2003-04-30
2003-04-30 04:47 | User Profile
See [url=http://www.stormfront.org/forum/]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/[/url] Though I do have to say I find Original Dissent to be the most professional/intellectual set up. It is a shame that Don Black does not have the intellect to figure out the common sense fact that affiliating White Nationalism with undesirable freaks such as Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads will greatly harm the movement.
Regards,
Ares
2003-04-30 04:52 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ares@Apr 30 2003, 04:47 ** See [url=http://www.stormfront.org/forum/]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/[/url] Though I do have to say I find Original Dissent to be the most professional/intellectual set up. It is a shame that Don Black does not have the intellect to figure out the common sense fact that affiliating White Nationalism with undesirable freaks such as Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads will greatly harm the movement.
Regards,
Ares **
Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads are the movement, acccording to them.
2003-04-30 05:26 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ares@Apr 30 2003, 00:47 ** See [url=http://www.stormfront.org/forum/]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/[/url] Though I do have to say I find Original Dissent to be the most professional/intellectual set up. It is a shame that Don Black does not have the intellect to figure out the common sense fact that affiliating White Nationalism with undesirable freaks such as Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads will greatly harm the movement.
Regards,
Ares **
Welcome Ares,
Stormfront is a wild place, isn't it? There are some good posters there, and a few who I don't really understand. Ed Toner is right, it has the virtue of high numbers, but high numbers also bring in some "interesting" characters, too.
I hope you'll spend some time here at OD and share your thoughts.
2003-04-30 11:43 | User Profile
Ares - My nuts in a thoughtshell.
2003-05-03 03:44 | User Profile
Ares --
Well, I hear you, but not all Klan/Nazi people are freaks. We [ok, Tex/Sert.] have a few Klan/Nazi people here at OD.
The "bad" ones ruin it for the good ones.
2003-06-16 13:37 | User Profile
Don Black's forum is the JEW's best friend
They spend all day whining about ' negroes ' and the real problem is the JEW. The jew wrote the 1965 immigration act
The jew has flooded the country with the immigrants
[img]http://www.truthinmedia.org/images/us-immigr.jpg[/img]
2003-06-16 14:26 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]Stormfront: The K-Mart of White Nationalism[/SIZE]
Ares said:
[color=red]"It is a shame that Don Black does not have the intellect to figure out the common sense fact that affiliating White Nationalism with undesirable freaks such as Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads will greatly harm the movement."[/color]
I am no friend of Stormfront, since I was onced banned (under a different screen name) for "inciting disunity among white nationalists" after I "attacked" several Stormfront members who stated it was "okay to have sex with non-whites just so long as you didn't get them pregnant."
I would have thought that the Stormfront moderator would have come to my defense rather than theirs, considering what they were professing, but that wasn't the case. I learned a hard lesson from that experience: Stormfront and those who run it are several sieg heils short of a beer hall putsch.
As for Don Black, he comes across as fairly intelligent, but his history as a white nationalist will forever be influenced (and thus marred) by his involvement with the KKK. I also believe he likes Stormfront being the "McDonald's" of the white nationalist movement - in which sheer numbers are more important to his ego than quality.
Another impression I have about Mr. Black is that, other than for his Stormfront site, he has nothing to offer in the way of intellectual substance to the Movement at large. In short, he's no William Pierce and no David Duke, and ultimately his contribution to the progress of white nationalism in America will be assigned no more than a footnote in the history books, if that.
In the meantime, Mr. Black posts these graphics on his website, sure-fire attractions to win over white Americans to the cause:
[img]http://www.stormfront.org/graphics/flag.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stormfront.org/graphics/hakencr1.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stormfront.org/graphics/eaglena2.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stormfront.org/graphics/nsdap.gif[/img]
2003-06-16 14:56 | User Profile
Stormfront is not avoiding the Jew in any way. All they did was clean up the foul language and slurs.
2003-06-16 23:09 | User Profile
I have found much to be unhappy about with stormfront. In part it's because the moronic blathering of misfits pecking out meaningless slogans and slurs. In larger measure, the problem is that any criticism of the American scene is promptly squashed by censorship combined with endless bitching, rumors and personal power plays. A lot of the material on the site at large is great and some times one can see worth while posts at the forum but generally speaking I have no real interest in the stormfront forum and I don't think it is largely conducive to serious activism or ideological discussion.
The removal of offending iconography would, to my mind, be a positive step but I doubt that it would alter the short comings I indicated. Such a move would certainly not however endear enemies of Eurocentrism to the site as they tend to falsely accuse those that differ with them as being ADL characterization of "nazis" which according to the propasphere is what all people that are fundamentally opposed to multi-racialism. Instead such people would likely be happy only when a site/person/organization embcraces Jewry and and strict racial seperation as well as joins in the rituals of condemning any that fails to do so as "nazis, subhuman skinheads and klansmen" just like the propasphere does. What all of this leads up to is the need to both reject those that fetishize the Third Reich as well as those that advocate abdicating genuine racialism which is covered below:
The Nature of N.S. and the Dangers of Compromise By Vibeke ÃËstergaard Within nationalist circles a fair amount of effort on lambasting the lunatic fringe and condemning national socialism in the hopes of widening the appeal of nationalism. Perhaps it would be fruitful to step back from the rote condemnations and ritualistic appeals to moderation and address the matter of what exactly National Socialism entails, what are the essential elements of Eurocentrism, realistically appraise what the NSDAP regime stood for as well as consider the threats and opportunities inherent compromise with a destructive Zeitgeist.
As a starting point it seems worth stating that to a significant extent all Eurocentrics are historically inclined and prone to nostalgia and that such tendencies can be, but often are not, positive in that they at least implicitly recognize that our identities are the product of our unique histories and the sacrifices and visions of our ancestors. In this respect we differ from the proponents of the anti - culture and Occidental destruction in that we do not subscribe to utopian constructs and societal formations that have never existed nor do we speak of remaking humanity to conform with an ahistorical ideal via social engineering as the Fabians, Anarchists, various flavors of Bolsheviks, Social Democrats and others that reject folkish conceptions of humanity do. As Eurocentrics we recognize, or at least we aught to, that our existence has as it's meaning the perpetuation and advancement of the genetic and cultural inheritance bequeathed to us by our ancestors whose communal environment was an expression of the majesty of providence.
As a result, we should realize the folly of taking inspiration from that which never was as is promoted by the likes of Saint-Simon, Fourier or Godwin as well as that which can not be (ex. the new Soviet Man) and that which requires the destruction of that which is of proven value for the transitory and nebulous as the proponents of the "tan everyman" would have us do. When looking to bygone eras we see individuals and societies that prevented our enslavement and destruction and even cultural renewal and provided the means for salubrious living. Any era, society or individual that one could reasonably described as providing such conditions deserves to be considered as a worth while source of inspiration as European man is currently facing extinction and our cultures are nothing more then faded remnants of our ancestor's glories strangled by the miasma of the anti culture and demographic decline. It is my contention that the NSDAP era can be accurately described in such terms and represents the most recent example of Eurocentric resurgence. As to the NSDAP era it is and will remain an issue for us to confront because every socializing institution of any significance in the Western world is controlled by interests that wish to destroy Europa and raise the specter Hitler a la Hollywood as a means of demonizing any manifestation of Eurocentrism. In order for one to successfully confront this perennial problem we must have a basic understanding of what the NSDAP regime actually did and address it's relevance to the struggle today without recourse to the hoary demonology of establishment propaganda nor the equally unfounded counter myth promoted by those nostalgic for an era they are ignorant of.
While a great many theorists have written magnus opuses detailing the short comings of multi-racialism, the virtues of folkish societies, the mechanisms of racial decline and prescriptions for national restoration very few have ever made a viable bid to have such notions put into action let alone had the opportunity to put theory into practice on a societal scale. This is not to say that ideas not enacted on a societal scale are some how lacking utility but it is to say that such notions should be judged within the context of that which has been implemented or at least tried on a large scale.
We should give credit where due and that means that accomplishments should be recognized even when the motive force has been both demonized and reasonably critiqued. In the case of the NSDAP regime it should be recognized that it was a regime rather then a mere think tank, website, publication, sect, party, person or unfulfilled revolutionary faction which simply can't be said of a great many NR/RC/NS manifestations that I and others of this list find more palatable. The Hitlerian regime succeeded in staving off the immediate destruction of Germany and successfully assisted numerous other forces of Eurocentric national insurgence in doing the same as well as making a great many other credible efforts else where.
Obviously, such efforts were done because they served the interest of the regime rather then some fully noble cause of pan European salvation as we all would like yet the consequences of not doing so would have had very grave indeed for a great many nations of Europa. While some here doubtlessly prefer other rightist regimes of similar vintage and rightly point out the substantial differences they held with the German model and that Axis alliances were often marriages of convenience the fact remains that they would have had more dubious prospects were it not for the efforts of NS Germany to create a pan European legion opposed to both Jewish Social Democracy/cultural Bolshevism in the West and Jewish Bolshevist totalitarianism in the East. If General Victor Suvorov's writings (see: Journal of the Royal Institute for Defense Studies June ââ¬Ë85 ) are accurate Western Europa would have fallen to the tender mercies of Stalin had not Hitler invaded the USSR in ââ¬Ë41 placing Hitler into a very small group of leaders that can legitimately claim to have staved off the military conquest of the West which in and of itself makes the regime worthy of recognition and qualified admiration in some respects.
It is also undeniable that while one hears much talk about forging an economic path that is neither "right nor left" NS Germany under the economic genius of Hjalmar Schacht underwent one of the greatest economic recoveries of history along with some note worthy progress towards social justice. One of course does here comments to the contrary from Strasserites whom reject racialism, praise Bolshevik economics, fawn over Mao and Che while quoting obvious forgeries as unadulterated historical truth as well as various theorists unencumbered by the realities of governance. All of which is to say that while the NSDAP model was obviously not intended for export nor in accordance with the vision of National Socialism I adhere to it does not deserve to be summarily discounted as mere capitalism as the Bolsheviks and idealists within our ranks often due with unqualified certitude.
While I often have commented upon my fondness for agrarianism and the examples, in theory, advanced by French, Iberian and Nordic proponents of guild/corporatist/sydicalist arrangements as a way of advancing an Organic society Walther Darre made it a reality until war time conditions combined with personal conflicts and bureaucratic struggles forced his vision to give way to the pragmatic methods of Herbert Backe . That I find my self more in tune with Maurras, Marquise De La Tour Du Pin, Antonio Sardindha, Pedro Teotonio Pereira and Roloa Preto and some of my own lansmen then the Third Reich simply means that I am forced to admit that Hitler, inspite of numerous and serious flaws with his regime, had gotten closer to making nationalist agrarianism a reality then did the rightist Iberian regimes inspite of their longer life and domestic tranquility.
While plenty of nationalist regimes forcibly beat back the forces of moral degeneration and should be commended for doing so the example of a folkish disposition being instilled by the new regime resulting in a cultural renewal of major proportion is something that very few in contemporary nationalist circles can lay claim to their preferred theorist or find replicated within the modern era let alone living memory. One can also point to the vast out pouring of high quality life, affirming art along with fantastic technological advancements in countless areas as yet another indication of an inherent value of the NSDAP regime. The upshot of all of this is that the whole sale denunciations the NSDAP regime and anyone that expresses an interest in what it offered are ill founded.
Also ill founded are the notions that the regime can serve as a basis for contemporary activism and ideology. I say this not because of the atrocity propaganda pushed by the establishment but rather because of inherent problems with the model itself. As Irmin so truthfully pointed out: "Hitler defined his own national socialism as a uniquely German movement: ââ¬ËThe National Socialist doctrine, as I have always proclaimed, is not for export. It was conceived for the German people.' (Hitler-Bormann Documents, Feb. 21, 1945) In other words, German National Socialism arose at a specific time in a specific place under the pressure of a unique set of historical circumstances, none of which could ever be precisely replicated elsewhere. In particular, the autocratic Führer state, central to NS Germany and still advocated by a few racial nationalists, would never be acceptable to Americans; our republican political culture and belief in individual rights is, thankfully, far too strong. Hitler was a dictator and his government authoritarian; Americans prefer their political and civil liberties, such as they currently are."
On a fundamental level one can point out the obvious fact that given the NSDAP model depended upon strong autocratic figures that simply don't have any modern equivalents nor the societal conditions in which they could thrive if they did exist meaning that slavish adherence to the Hitlerian model is simply not an option anywhere in the Occident. Further more, inspite of the abyssic hate displayed by the Hollywood Nazis the truth remains that the ideology of the NSDAP was a compressive world view used to address the problems of the day in all societal spheres. I have yet to hear any concrete recommendations on how one can make the legal, economic and societal prescriptions of the old regime valid today by even genuinely wise chaps like Colin Jordan.
In moral respects a sensible person can easily reject the inane propaganda that keeps making the rounds (ex. Hitler was Jewish, a pervert, a Satanist, junkie etc. or that NS is nothing more then racist communism) by those that wish to remove racialism from nationalism or pretend that theocratic pronouncements or Evolian notions that occult warfare are the basis for National Renewal as fifth columnists seeking to destroy what opportunities we do have for salvaging the West. Nonetheless, plenty of negative aspects exist that give reasonable people serious concerns about the NSDAP model. I refer to: the barbarous conduct of Einsatzgruppen, the wide spread use of slave labor (yes I realize it was needed to keep the war effort going), having a state be defined by a single leader causing succession problems, a severe authoritarianism that simply can't be held up as an inspiration in any but the most desperate of circumstances and an outlook that was Pan - European only because of war time demands rather then by design. I deem these flaws serious enough to warrant the avoidance of using the NSDAP era as a model
When genuine nationalists (not theocratic cranks, Strasserites and "Traditionalists") condemn the Hitlerian movement it most often has as it's basis a rejection of the costumed fetish types that one sees so much of in the American scene. While such people are in fact a great liability to the struggle they also are grossly ignorant of NSDAP ideology and public policy that they simply do not deserve to be lumped in with honorable men like Mr. Jordan and the members of the old WUNS activists. The worst aspect of all of this is that after 60 years or so omni - present vilification of NS Germany and the suppression of genuine history and texts a great many of those attracted to the Hitler regime will be sociopaths incapable of productive activism or a genuine understanding of what the regime actually aspired to. As a result, I view the promotion of Third Reich style National Socialism to be counter productive to such an extent that the minuscule number of sincere adherents that the school has are totally neutralized by the misfits that riddle such circles.
When what I have said is taken in total the question arises as to how the Hitler matter should be handled. We can not ignore it as the propasphere will continue to raise the specter of Hitler = satanic evil & stupidity = any fundamental rejection of multi - racialism. I for one can't trust anyone that feels the need to make ritualistic condemnations of the Third Reich while repeating widely accepted falsehoods as such notions it seems almost always lead to avoiding addressing the Jewish question or pretending that race is somehow less then critical to the future of Europa. In the end, the only way that I can advise the matter be handled in good conscious is to simply state we should state clearly that our efforts to prevent the destruction of our kinfolk and the restoration of our heritage and historic obligations to blood and soil do not entail mimicry of any past regime. That we instead stand for the eternal values of folkish restoration, self determination and separatism for all races and an adherence to public policies that preserve our uniqueness as a biologic and cultural entity and nothing more.
A matter that can not be separated from the issue at hand is the gross distortion of the term National Socialism. While one expects Americans to view the term as synonymous with the Third Reich as they lack an ingenious variant, the language skills and cultural back ground to know better I have become distressed by seeing Europeans do the same. It should be common knowledge to everyone in Eurocentric circles that National Socialism has had numerous manifestations from the 1880s onward and that it simply makes no sense what so ever to limit it a system of governance found in Germany from ââ¬Ë33 to ââ¬Ë45.
Defining in a broad sense what is meant by National Socialism is a simple matter by defining key terms. A nation is the political expression of racial interests in the context of the Traditionalism of a homogeneous and fully sovereign folk rather then merely the perpetuation of coalition of disparate interests seeking dominance over society as is currently the case. Such an expression can be either from the state or privately organized by societal interests but what makes such arrangements nationalistic is the extent to which they can be made to maintain and advance their own Traditionalism rather then simply impose a sectarian will upon the nation, state, or government at large. Race is a widely extended aggregate comprised of those that share a highly similar genetic legacy. A history that produced a collective sense of purpose in the form of folkways and aesthetics that encouraged societal cohesion over a great number of generations is what defines a national Tradition. The means by which the collective affairs of the nation is carried out via a set of institutions that out live their creators is what I refer to as the state. Government is nothing more then a temporary collection of individuals or organizations that control the state. Being a nationalist in part means recognizing the centrality of the fact that the nation is a product of the people that created the national Tradition we wish to protect.
Socialism is quite simply an economic arrangement whereby class based oppression and conflict is actively discouraged by the state and/or society via institutionalized representation designed to balance the various sectoral interests within society. As such, socialism does not entail any particular form of governance (or theoretically any form of governance at all) and most definitely does not require state control of the economy. Prior to Marx, socialist doctrine was decidedly anti - statist (or libertarian in the pre -Randian sense of the term) favouring economic decentralization. Within the "rightist" camps socialism had traditionally been seen as a means to counter the crass materialism, cosmopolitanism and urbanization that undermined the traditional societal arrangements of Europa. Socialism in such a context sought to stop class warfare which engendered bolshevism and societal decay while meeting traditional Catholic notions of social justice. These schemes entailed not state run industries nor the destruction of private property but popular control over the means of production by employee managed or owned enterprises organized into guilds and syndicates along the lines first described by the Marquise De La Tour Du Pin, latter guild socialists and distributalists. It should also be mentioned that a style of governance does not follow from such a form of socialism as one can readily note that La Tour Du Pin and Maurras both advocated an autocratic form of monarchy while their ideological descendants have promoted everything from plebacites to fascistic forms of governance. The form of the state and method of governance is legitimate to the extent it maintains a racially based nation state with maximum sovereignty, minimal societal discord and a culture that reflects the traditional folkways and mores of the race that created the nation. As such, while I prefer a decentralized state and one that is not autocratic I realize that under certain historical conditions authoritarianism may be the only means to prevent the destruction of the nation.
These ideas were integrated by numerous national revolutionary groups across Europa during the first few decades of the last century with the best known being a long series of French theorists beginning with Berres and continuing with Valois, DeMann and a great many others that radically "reconstructed Marxism" into a conception designed to foster national unity and cooperation between the classes rather then the destruction of private property and a "dictatorship of the proletarian".
A National Socialist then is one that fuses the biologic underpinning of nation with a state whose purpose is the advancement of the folkways and mores of a homogenous population sharing a common sense of purpose and an economy based upon the minimization of class conflict via sectoral representation. The form of socialism that I feel that best represents such a vision is detailed in strictly economic terms here: [url=http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/...f/gildpref.html]http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/...f/gildpref.html[/url] although the site [url=http://sunsite.utk.edu/FINS/Mary_Parker_Follett/]http://sunsite.utk.edu/FINS/Mary_Parker_Follett/[/url] has some very good material as well as the works of the theorists I have mentioned earlier.
The preceding matters were raised in order to introduce the matter of the dangers and opportunities of moderation in an attempt to broaden the appeal of nationalism. Within nationalist circles one sees a great deal of efforts to surrender our core principles in the hopes that by being more like the establishment that our views will be accepted and we will be propelled to power.
Typically, this begins out of a fear of being called a "racist" or "hateful" leading to supposed Eurocentrics mimicking the propasphere's propaganda about the Third Reich. Simply denouncing Hitler does not satisfy those that control our nations so supposed nationalists attempt to prove that they are socially acceptable by having the products of miscegenation, jews and other racial aliens as members or even candidates and leaders. Often times such parties will avoid raising any economic concept that is not already fully institutionalized so as to appear mainstream while simply addressing some aspect of economic distress (ex. the welfare state, aid to asylum seekers, high taxes, deindustrialization etc.) while pretending that minor reforms done fully within the current frame work of a globalized economy, social democracy and all other pillars of the current order are meaningful responses to the crisis of the West. Eventually, such compromises result in the faux nationalist of abandoning any fundamental rejection of muliracialism, racial separatism and adoption of the neo-conservative position that culture exists independently of race and that the demographic decline of Occidental man is not the problem but rather it is just happening to fast and that an Occidental society will survive our demise via the magic assimilation, conversion to some modernistic version of jew approved Christianity, the mystical workings of "market forces" or the restoration of some legal doctrine sans the societal conditions that gave rise to it.
At best it leaves the nationalist opposition simply pointing out the negative consequences of societal destruction while completely avoiding the crux of the problem (i.e. the inherent nature of multi-racialism) or the consideration of any systemic solution in favour of simply reducing the rate of decay via mucking about with the tax code or reducing the rate of our dispossession via scaling back the third world invasion a bit. Following such a notion to it's logical conclusion one gets supposedly traditional Catholics that denounce Maurras and the delusion that Western civilization exists where ever the faith is prominent. Such a causal chain leads to the implicit multi-racialism found in American neo-confederate groups and the anti Occidental insanity found in the Scottish National Party. It also results in supposed paleo-conservatives like the American Pat Buchanan embracing multi-racialism while rejecting the societal damage it has done all in the name of "respectability" as one can see here: [url=http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=30233]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=30233[/url]
This is not to say that genuine nationalists must never support populist parties that promote policies that stand to reduce the rate of our dispossession as a great many parties in Europa seek to do. It is to say that we should not confuse the limited and short term gains brought about by such efforts as a victory for nationalism nor should we let such efforts consume our energies to such an extent that they hamper the public promotion of real nationalism as a genuine alternative to the current order. Instead, populist parties serve mainly as a stop gap measure to buy us time to form activist cadres and tailor our policy prescriptions to various segments of our kinfolk and form tactical alliances with those that do not share our grand vision of National Restoration.
The Vlaams Blok seems to be a perfect case study of what is wrong with nationalists favouring electoral expediency over principle. The VB leadership first choose to abandon revisionism in the interest of not being seen as extreme by the establishment and to avoid legal troubles. In addition, the VB makes the ritualistic denunciations of "racism, hate and Nazism" as defined by the system but discovers that doing so is not enough to appease the anti Occidental establishment. As a result, the party chooses to take a hard core pro-Zionist stance and prostrate itself before Jewish interests. Now the party has abandoned any pretense of being a racial nationalist party by claiming that third world immigrants can be assimilated and that if they do so they are Flemish.
There is much wrong with such stances being taken by a party that wishes to reduce the dispossession of one's lansmen via a reduction in the scope of the third world invasion. First and foremost is that the principle reason to vote for a supposed nationalist party (populist seems a more accurate label) is to prevent the demographic destruction of your nation. A party that fundamentally accepts multi-racialism will obviously not seek to drastically reduce third world migration let alone consider repatriation but instead simply attempt to modestly reduce the rate of the alien influx. Anyone who has spent a few minutes looking over European demographic projections realizes that the simple and undeniable reality is that given the extremely high birth rates of third worlders in Europa that they will have within the foreseeable future the demographic clout to remake nations like Flanders into their own image even if the migration rates are reduced somewhat.
The matter of assimilation is absurd in that Occidental cultures simply have never and will never exist in countries with majority non Occidental populations save the imposition of a racial caste system which is a proven long term dead end. The very few that actually do fully embrace the host culture almost without exception embrace the materialism, decadence and the squalor that is social democracy rather then the healthy, life affirming traditions that the country once was based upon and that genuine nationalism seeks to embrace. In so doing, the assimilated alien is held up by the anti Occidental establishment as a an example of the virtues of multi racialism which gives our own lansmen reason to doubt the uniqueness and value of their own heritage even further while ignoring the overwhelmingly negative aspects of immigration. In nations that still have Occidental majorities that reality is that assimilation is rare and when it does occur it is superficial (ex. A basic grasp of the native tongue or paying taxes rather then receiving them) for the simple reason that outside of European nations notions of cosmopolitanism and the fantasy that race doesn't exist are almost unheard of. When a large alien population is present in a decadent social democratic nation with zero sense of racial identity or national purpose (i.e. any where in Europa) the aliens will, for the most part, choose to belong to their own distinct communities and seek to enhance their power by supporting those parties that either help or at least fail to oppose their racial interests. Eventually, the destabilization that is brought about by multi racialism will result in the destruction of the host culture/race altogether or a form of civil strife that permits the rise of a genuine nationalism.
The upshot of the VB's a betrayal of the cause of Flemish survival is that the party has continually been portrayed as "extreme right" by the propasphere, having zero prospect of being brought into a coalition government and facing the prospect of legal banishment. Let us pretend for a moment that the VB is brought into a governing coalition. Within less then a generation the demographic balance will have changed to such an extent that the parties like the VB will have no chance of being a major electoral force (assuming that they remain legal at all) and will simply be another leftist party pushing the anti culture just like the GOP in the states. The efforts of appeasing the current order by the populists will fail because they have no systemic solution to the problems facing our nations but merely peripheral reform that serve as a pressure valve for the establishment. We are already seeing just how short lived such faux alternatives are in several recent elections such as in Austria or that zero progress in the struggle resulted from the electoral victory of the AN. Such result are bound to come from the fact that pointing out the symptoms of decline like crime, welfare expenditure or the decline of language while not addressing it's root causes prevents any meaning change from happening.
The solution is once again to focus on positive, real world activism centered upon one's community as I and other have described before. Such activism changes minds because it shows by example the positive and practical merits of genuine racial nationalism. The question we must ask our selves is are we willing to put forward the effort needed to make our views something other then an intellectual curiosity. If not we should simply support faux alternatives like the VB and surrender the future of our children and nations to the god of electoral expediency. As nationalists our job is prove by public activism and personal example that our cause is the only real and comprehensive alternative to societal decay. Fine tuning the presentation of what we stand for need not and should not entail the surrender of principles because gaining power is only useful and moral if used for the purpose of Occidental Restoration rather then simply the promotion of an election list that is some what less socially destructive then our supposed opponents. Rather then surrender principle to expediency we need demonstrate not just the short comings of the current order but what we can offer that meets the needs of our countrymen.
We do so by pointing out how a nationalist economy provides out kinfolk with greater control over their own lives. We do so by detailing how the empowerment of local communities provides for a fuller, safer more wholesome environment for our neighbors' children. We do so by addressing the value of our identity, the uniqueness and value of what our people have done. We do so by not demanding anything for our own folk that we would not grant to others. Neither nostalgia and rigid adherence to the forms of bygone regimes nor the sacrificing of our core values holds promise for our noble of cause of national restoration so we must suppress both temptations.
2003-06-16 23:30 | User Profile
** Skunk wrote:
They spend all day whining about ' negroes ' and the real problem is the JEW. The jew wrote the 1965 immigration act **
Debbie DayCareCenter: "What does a person's religion have to do with immigration?"
Sally ICanVote: "I don't know, Debbie... he must be one of those super-duper-wuper-evil Nazi thugs that Tom Rennick mentions on every post at that nasty-White-guy website called OD!"
:D :D :D
Hey, Skunk, where ya been? :th: You've been missing our Mr. Rennick.
[edited]
2003-06-17 00:18 | User Profile
**Tom Rennick,Jun 16 2003, 08:26 In the meantime, Mr. Black posts these graphics on his website, sure-fire attractions to win over white Americans to the cause:
**
Yeah, maybe these would work better:
[img]http://www.nigeltyas.co.uk/img_candle/menorah.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chevroncars.com/wocc/lrn/trib/gifs/dreidel.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.thebiblestudypage.com/images/israel_flag.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.flagline.com/images/us-african-american-flag.gif[/img]
[img]http://cougar.slvhs.slv.k12.ca.us/~djcavail/mexican%20flag.gif[/img]
:lol:
I bet seeing those pix of the menorah and dreidels bring back memories, eh Tommy boy? Mazel Tov!
[SIZE=2]we see Tommy Rennick at home, shaking his fists and stomping his feet...
"But I'm [u]not[/u] a Jew! I'm not! I'm not! I'm not!"[/SIZE] :clown:
C'mon, ya gotta admit, that when it comes to iconography, der Nazis were der coolest. B) :sm:
2003-06-17 17:15 | User Profile
Stormfront is an interesting site. I've spent some time browsing through some of their more intelligent threads; there are some informed and wonderfully dedicated folks over there. And personally I do think the Nazi symbols are not offensive: quite attractive. The swastika is nothing to be ashamed of. Although many neo-Nazis (usually the younger extremists) are an insult to white nationalism and not an asset IMO.
I've never posted there, mainly because of the existence of "Stormfront Serbia." Really, what's with that? Does nobody remember the details of WWI, WWII?? If that forum is an attempt at comedic relief, they certainly succeeded...
2003-06-17 19:24 | User Profile
The Serbs have just as much right to exist as any other old culture nation.
Like Israel? :rolleyes: *yes, this was extreme: Serbia has every right to exist as a white nation, my apologies
Next thing you know, we'll see a "Stormfront Albania" and "Stormfront Israel," if this 'logic' continues to its loathful end. If that Serbian moderator is National Socialist, he would be regarded as a traitor by most of his Chetnik countrymen: I wonder about his personal philosophies.
FWIW I don't hate Serbs. It is not worth my time or effort. However I do not roll over and passively allow their propaganda to nest and infest in my thoughts as so many others apparently do. I can only wonder about the truthful affiliations of those who (without a second thought, most of the time) buy into the BS of the Serbian-Jewish propagandists.
I am getting sadly too used to people parroting the propagandists instead of trying to discover the truth for themselves. It is not difficult to counter the lies, but more often than not people do not want to open their minds and refuse to see with their own eyes instead of listening to the latests sound-byte. Are you an agitator for the truth? Or are you a tool of the propagandists.
Do your own research instead of relying upon what you have been told. Think for yourself.
2003-06-17 19:24 | User Profile
Personally, I have never found "nazi" (by the way, does anyone know the origin of that word?) iconography disturbing except when used by Strasserites or the costume fetish/freak crowd because such people are the antithesis of what they stand for. A great deal of such symbols are ancient, life affirming signs from a time when our kinfolk were healthier. Naturally, they have no particular meaning for North American Occidentals and they do provide plenty of PR opportunities for our enemies as a result of the dregs that often are captivated with such imagery. As a result, I maintain that they are best not used in public as the force of one's ideas and character should convey themselves very well without them.
From time to time a wear a small and very old valknut or triflot on my lapel which were given to me my father's brother as family legacies shortly before he died. It is very rare that anyone takes note of them as something other then antique jewelry and not once has anyone taken offense at them and currently they are legal symbols in all of Europa but that may change in Sweden and Germany soon I am told.
In the end, it is not icons that win converts but personal valor, tact and insight.
2003-06-20 03:32 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 16 2003, 08:26 * ** I am no friend of Stormfront, since I was onced banned (under a different screen name) **
I have just been banned from Stormfront for mentioning that they should not use KKK, Nazi, and Skinhead cultures.
Regards,
Ares
2003-06-20 03:40 | User Profile
Ares -- why do [did] you hang out there at SF if you ain't a hard-core WN? Those guys are not gonna embrace you anyway. Why bother?
2003-06-20 14:24 | User Profile
Those ââ¬Åtrailer trashââ¬Â rednecks, will be the foot soldiers, if and when, there is any sort of up rising by the underdog white folks. It seems the squabbling never ends. My ââ¬Åwhite folksââ¬Â are better than yours. My god can whip your god, on and on ad nauseum. While I appreciate the views on this forum, itââ¬â¢s hard to imagine a bunch of intellectuals actually participating in any kind of lethal skirmish. Meanwhile, the ââ¬Åredneck skinheadsââ¬Â, as distasteful as they are to some, are out there on the front. You may not agree with their methods, but in their own way, they are making a mark on the younger generation, and we need all of them we can get.
2003-06-20 19:02 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]In the Aftermath of a White Nationalist Revolution[/SIZE]
[color=red]"So, the 4,000 American members who are WNs are also probably from the under-class (trailer trash types who for the most part are Skinheads and Nazis), so they won't have any influence on the Public or politics."[/color]
Should a white nationalist revolution ever come to pass, Neo-Nazi skinheads will be outnumbered by blacks and mestizos by at least 5000 to 1. Not only that, but once the shooting starts, they won't stand a chance anyway, since they're too easily identified by their shaved heads, Nazi tattoos, and Doc Marten boots. They might as well be wearing a bulls-eye on their foreheads with the words "Shoot Me" written across it. Anyway, they'll be slaughtered quickly, leaving the bulk of the revolution to be fought and won by mainstream white Americans - whom our struggle is all about anyway.
However, should any Neo-Nazi skinheads survive such a revolution, they need to understand one thing: in a post-revolutionary America, they won't be permitted any seat at the victory table, nor any say in the government to come. They are cannon fodder, and nothing more. All revolutions have them, and in ours it will be the Neo-Nazi skinheads. But come victory, they will not be welcome to live in our neighborhoods - for they are not worthy. Come victory, they will not be welcome to marry our white daughters - for they are not worthy. Come victory, they will have no say in the new white nationalist America - for they are not worthy. Let them fight and die against the non-white hordes if they wish, for it serves our cause well in the end, as does killing two birds with one stone.
Finally, we white nationalists must realize that in a post-revolutionary America, Neo-Nazi skinheads would have no place in it, leaving us no choice but to root them out like this: [img]http://www.beyondthishorizon.com/WNSecurityPoliceNeoNaziSkinhead192x192.jpg[/img]
2003-06-20 19:05 | User Profile
Rennick with his favorite troll topic again. What a piece of :dung:
2003-06-20 19:17 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]Since You Seem To Like This Stuff...[/SIZE]
Have some more!!!!!! :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: :dung: [img]http://forum.originaldissent.com/uploads/av-16.gif[/img]
2003-06-20 19:24 | User Profile
Rennick,
I had given you the benefit of the doubt, but your recent posts demonstrate conclusively that you are a troll.
2003-06-20 19:50 | User Profile
I was the first to peg that :dung:
The power of the "if it talks and walks like a duck..." principle has been proven once again :lol:
2003-06-21 00:57 | User Profile
Does anyone think TR might be rban?
2003-06-21 01:07 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Valley Forge@Jun 20 2003, 18:57 * ** Does anyone think TR might be rban? **
I like his posts, they are quite witty as well as truthful.
2003-06-21 21:44 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ares@Jun 20 2003, 21:07 * ** I like his posts, they are quite witty as well as truthful.*
I find Rennick quite amusing as well and don't understand the level of hostility directed at him.
2003-06-21 22:04 | User Profile
Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 20 2003, 13:02 * *Finally, we white nationalists must realize that in a post-revolutionary America, Neo-Nazi skinheads would have no place in it, leaving us no choice but to root them out like this: **
So...what happens to the Objectivists after the revolution?
2003-06-21 23:54 | User Profile
[SIZE=3]It's What They Don't Say That's Telling...[/SIZE]
Ares said: > [color=blue]"I like his posts, they are quite witty as well as truthful."[/color]
That's precisely why they have a problem with my posts, Mr. Ares. It's the "truthful" part they don't want to hear. And the reason for that is quite simple: they have no effective way to justify the presence of Neo-Nazi skinheads in the white nationalist movement. No Nazi-sympathizers do, and that's why Nazi-loving cretins like Madrussian and OD's resident court jester Franco froth at the mouth whenever I attack their precious babies.
Damian said: > [color=blue]"I find Rennick quite amusing as well and don't understand the level of hostility directed at him."[/color]
The hostility you hear is the whine of Nazi sympathizers, Mr. Damian. The ones who infest this forum may not be tattooed Nazi skinheads, but trust me when I say they're Nazis nonetheless. In truth, they have no desire to preserve America for white Americans.
No.
Instead, they want to erect a full-blown Fourth Reich on American soil, flags, swastikas, and loving statues of Adolf Hitler in every town square. You see, people like Franco, Madrussian, Anti-Yuppie, Prodigal Son, and all the rest of their kind have one thing in common: they despise America. They despise it so much they'll even side with non-white Muslims who smash jets into "Jew-infested" New York buildings and gloat with glee over it. Never mind that little white gentile children died aboard those planes, fearfully clutching at their mothers' breasts in the last seconds of their lives.
No, they don't care - just as long as somewhere, somehow "a Jew dies".
2600 said: > [color=blue]"So...what happens to the Objectivists after the revolution?" [/color]
Should such a revolution ever come about, why should anything "happen" to Objectivists, Mr. 2600? Ah, let me see if I can guess... Since Objectivism was founded by a Jew, you seem to imply that something should "happen" to anyone who chooses to believe in that philosophy, am I right? Well, if murdering Objectivists is on your mind simply because they believe in a philosophy founded by a Jew, then be sure to build thosands of sprawling death camps in your post-revolutionary America, since you'll have a lot of Christians to liquidate as well - seeing as how they worship a religion founded by a Jew.
Tom
2003-06-22 00:00 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Tom Rennick@Jun 21 2003, 19:54 * **
No, they don't care - just as long as somewhere, somehow "a Jew dies".
**
Haha, only a jew would say something like that! Consider yourself "flushed out" Mr. Rennick. :P
2003-06-22 00:10 | User Profile
Vhen is our sufferink goink to end? Oy! :crybaby:
2003-06-22 00:11 | User Profile
What do you have against the Nazis, Tom Rennick? Is it a political stance (are you against nationalism and/or socialism?), or is it racial/ethnic (are you against European ethnicities/nations?), or ...what? I understand you are anti-Nazi - but why?
Personally, other than making allies of the Nipponese and attacking the Russians, I don't see what was so terrible about them. They were national socialists who acted to protect ethnic Deutsch from mainly the Czech and Poles, and who wanted order in the world and unity amongst the white European nations.
2003-06-22 00:12 | User Profile
Thanks, Tom, brilliant analysis. :P
Really, why do you think anyone who questions yr motives wants to put you in a death camp, spit on the American flag and wipe their ass with the Constitution while giving out a hearty 'Seig Heil' and goose-stepping along to "Horst Wessel Lied"?
I wasn't serious, but anyway, if such a revolution ever does come about [looking increasingly unlikely], nothing needs to be done w/Objectivists. If whites manage to wake up the danger posed by Our Elder Brothers In Faith, then I'll sure they will have the perspicacity to reject an ideology most ideally suited for 14 yr olds.
Why do you hate National Socialists so much? I'm not a NS, but give me Natl Socialists over VDARE-type wafflers anyday.
EDIT: I don't like StormFront much either, if you really want to know, Tommy, with the exception for a few posters...SDY, Jack_Boot, and Konservative spring to mind. But that's about it.
2003-06-22 00:21 | User Profile
That was the classic tribal lament over there at freakerdom:
**No, they don't care - just as long as somewhere, somehow "a Jew dies". **
Rennick had me going there for awhile, but sooner or later he was bound to slip up. ;) In the future, I'll just trust Franco's judgement on such matters.
2003-06-22 00:37 | User Profile
I believe the proper name is Franco and Co as per Okierreddust :D
2003-06-22 01:44 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Alka@Jun 21 2003, 18:11 * ** What do you have against the Nazis, Tom Rennick? Is it a political stance (are you against nationalism and/or socialism?), or is it racial/ethnic (are you against European ethnicities/nations?), or ...what? I understand you are anti-Nazi - but why?
Personally, other than making allies of the Nipponese and attacking the Russians, I don't see what was so terrible about them. They were national socialists who acted to protect ethnic Deutsch from mainly the Czech and Poles, and who wanted order in the world and unity amongst the white European nations. **
Protecting the ethnic Deutsch from the Czechs and Poles, huh? I suppose that's why Hitler felt it necessary to occupy Prague after the Czechs capitulated on the Sudetenland issue, and that's why the brutal massacre at Lidice occured, right? And the murder of hundreds of thousands of Poles was no big deal either; nor was his intention to burn Paris to the ground, his bombing of Rotterdam, his occupation of handful of other European countries, and, finally, his desire to throw the German people to the wolves in a fit of schaudenfruede when it was obvious he was going to lose his war. No big deal, huh?
You know, call me crazy, call me a philosemite, but I wasn't real crazy about Auschwitz, either. I guess I wouldn't fit in too well at Stormfront myself.
2003-06-22 01:56 | User Profile
[url=http://www.proparanoid.com/truth.htm]Disinformation vs. Truth![/url]
I would recommend that anyone read the above to understand why I won't even bother wasting my time responding to the likes of Phillip Augustus.
There are too many dedicated disinformationalists out there. & IMHO there are many disinformationalists out there who don't even know that they function as such.
Ignorance is as disguting an evil as a conspiracy. Perhaps worse.
2003-06-22 03:17 | User Profile
Goodness People!
Stormfront is just a White Nationalist Forum. Original Dissent is just a broader community forum with a wider audience. Stormfront is not for everybody and has rules that you abide by or else.
For those that cry about "White Nationalists", what are you doing for our race and nation?
2003-06-22 04:58 | User Profile
Alka said: > [color=blue]"What do you have against the Nazis, Tom Rennick? Is it a political stance (are you against nationalism and/or socialism?), or is it racial/ethnic (are you against European ethnicities/nations?), or ...what? I understand you are anti-Nazi - but why?"[/color]
I'm more than happy to answer your questions, Alka. For starters, you ask me what I have "against" Nazis. I have nothing against the German Nazis of World War II, anymore than I have anything against Napolean's legions or the hoplites of ancient Greece. They are just figures of the past to me.
Now, I do have a great deal against modern-day Neo-Nazis, and for very clear reasons. Today's Neo-Nazis look, dress, and act like hoodlums, and thus harm the public image of all decent white nationalists everywhere. Personally, I do not care one whit if one admires Adolf Hitler in private, or owns a Nazi swastika. It's when one starts shouting admiration for Adolf Hitler in public, or parading Nazi flags down Main Street, USA, that I take offense. Such displays do serious public relations damage to the cause of white nationalism. We're out to win the hearts and minds of our fellow whites, afterall. Displaying Nazi regalia is antithetical to that objective.
As for socialism I have no use for it, at least the socialism espoused by the classical Marxists. Now, if you are speaking of a different kind, please elaborate. In regard to white nationalism in general, I believe whites world-wide should unite in the common understanding that we as a Race are faced with extinction if we don't repel the advancing brown tide. It may not be possible, I must admit. But if we have any chance at all, marching under the Nazi swastika isn't the way.
[img]http://www.americannaziparty.com/protest.jpg[/img]
Tom
2003-06-23 20:26 | User Profile
*Originally posted by Ares@Apr 29 2003, 22:47 * ** See [url=http://www.stormfront.org/forum/]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/[/url] Though I do have to say I find Original Dissent to be the most professional/intellectual set up. It is a shame that Don Black does not have the intellect to figure out the common sense fact that affiliating White Nationalism with undesirable freaks such as Nazis, KKK, and Skinheads will greatly harm the movement.
Regards,
Ares **
Bums of the world: UNITE. Stormfront is waiting :D