← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Franco
Thread ID: 6140 | Posts: 29 | Started: 2003-04-13
2003-04-13 23:16 | User Profile
[url=http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/showEssay.asp?essayID=1211]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/sho...sp?essayID=1211[/url]
2003-04-14 01:04 | User Profile
Ever see The Music Man with Robert Preston and Shirley Jones? Absolutely pro-White and absolute joy. :rock: :hit:
2003-04-14 01:32 | User Profile
I've always had an eye for Shirley Jones. Check her out in The Cheyenne Social Club with Jimmy Stewart & Henry Fonda.
Delicious.....
2003-04-14 01:52 | User Profile
N.B. -- Yes, a young Shirley Jones is hard to beat. Ditto a young Olivia De Havilland circa 1938...
2003-04-14 02:05 | User Profile
Originally posted by N.B. Forrest@Apr 14 2003, 01:32 I've always had an eye for Shirley Jones. Check her out in The Cheyenne Social Club with Jimmy Stewart & Henry Fonda.
Delicious.....**
Thanks, I will. I loved her in the Partridge Family.
2003-04-14 04:43 | User Profile
Originally posted by Franco@Apr 13 2003, 23:16 [url=http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/showEssay.asp?essayID=1211]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/vnn/sho...sp?essayID=1211[/url]
First Yggy, now VNN. What's next? Are they going to come out with rave reviews for Schindler's List and the Diary of Ann Frank? :rolleyes:
2003-04-14 05:09 | User Profile
See my other post. I wrote "The Sound of Music" review....
2003-04-14 15:11 | User Profile
Originally posted by Franco@Apr 14 2003, 05:09 See my other post. I wrote "The Sound of Music" review....
**When "The Sound of Music" premiered in 1965, the West was still largely White, and the mildish anti-Nazi tone of the movie was easy for Joe Citizen to swallow. Today, however, "The Sound of Music" ends up glorifying the wholesome whiteness of 1938 Austria and, therefore, the supreme defenders of whiteness, Those Evil Nazis [tm, the Jewish community]......
Complete with beautiful music and great scenes of White architecture, children, family values and the Alps, "The Sound of Music" could be a Nazi recruiting film, with a little editing of course.
Watch "The Sound of Music." Ignore the anti-Anschluss themes within it -- and long for a time machine while doing so.**
I don't know. It appears you would have to do quite a bit of editing, if not deconstruction, to turn this in a Nazi recruiting film. It is true the movie about the Trapp's did not need to be ostentatiously political, as with many other german-speaking countries art and artists, but tell me how that alone makes it "a Nazi recruiting film"?
2003-04-14 16:08 | User Profile
I watched "The Sound Of Music" again, maybe several months ago. While the wholesome portrayal of White European family and culture is clearly evident and glorious, the latter half of the movie is, I thought and still do think, very, very anti-Nazi and which no editor could undo.
There is also the anti-Catholic/anti-Christian subplot with the boring, stifled, bleak and oppressed nunnery to which Maria belongs and her sudden romantic feelings for Mr Von Trapp. I interpret that whole side plot as: You should follow the lusts and passions of your "inner self" and shake off the obligations and worship of some robe-in-the-sky Creator so why not plunge into that "love triangle" to spice up your boring, useless life!!
Very, very "shiny" movie indeed, but I did like your review anyway Franco. Thank you.
2003-04-14 16:25 | User Profile
Edelweiss, Edelweiss Every morning you greet me Small and white, clean and bright You look happy to meet me
Blossom of snow may you bloom and grow Bloom and grow forever
Edelweiss, Edelweiss Bless my homeland forever
2003-04-14 17:47 | User Profile
Originally posted by xmetalhead@Apr 14 2003, 16:08 **There is also the anti-Catholic/anti-Christian subplot with the boring, stifled, bleak and oppressed nunnery to which Maria belongs and her sudden romantic feelings for Mr Von Trapp. I interpret that whole side plot as: You must follow the lusts and passions of your "inner self", and shake off the obligations and worship to some guy-in-the-sky Creator so why not plunge into that "love triangle" scene to spice up your boring, useless life!!
**
That definitely was part of the theme of Sound of Music I would say. Call it just a basic anti-collectivist, anti-authoritarian theme, pro-liberal theme. It isn't strongly ideological and was soft-core, but it was of course consistent with the general denazification program we pushed on the German speaking countries after the war, administered by bureaucrats like Max Horkheimer and Herbert Marcuse based on the ideology of The Authoriatarian Personalityalbeit in this case not strongly left-wing.
The message is fairly self-evident. Maria, living in a stifling convent (Catholicism = collectivist religion) and tied down by her religious vows, meets Mr. Von Trapp, tied down with his oppresive aristocratic values/quasi Prissian authoritarianism and betrothal to a loveless aristocratess. The spirit of individualism takes over and they fall in love and cast off their respective dreary oppressive vows, flee dreary oppressive Nazi-Austria, and flee to America to become bohemian artists.
I don't actually mind the film, in comparison to the demonized Anschlussers it of course dredges up a countering archetype of a liberalized, prodemocratic Austrian "aristocratic" (although actually rather transparently American type nascent- populist) elite. This was of course i.a.w. western propoganda of the time, which was to picture Austria as "victims" of Nazism. In fact it would appear that virulent anti-Nazi's aristocrats like Von Trapp would have been very unusual in Austria, which was becoming one of the most pro-Nazi parts of the Third Reich.
That's it in a nutshell. Anybody over at VNN pick up on this angle and chime in with this critique Franco? B) It does seem to me along this line that VNN has of late took a stance increasingly friendly to libertarian ideas.
2003-04-14 17:55 | User Profile
No offense, but when I think of a beautiful young woman like that throwing her life away by becoming a nun, it makes me want to vomit.
Maria leaving the nunnery for a real life is the only good thing I saw in the movie.
I was dragged off to Catholic church as a child( although I was never confirmed). I found the experience to be ignominious and revolting. :punk:
2003-04-14 18:01 | User Profile
Not to tromp on anyone's cherished memories or anything, but as someone who was around when SOUND OF MUSIC was first released, I can tell you us kids dreaded the prospect of sitting through something so saccharine-dreadful as the singing Von Trapps led by the utterly sexless Julie Andrews. It got so my parents would coerce me into reasonably Good Behavior by threatening to take me to see THE SOUND OF MUSIC; and one ignoble day they made good on that threat, I'm sad to say.
I dunno, maybe it plays better 40 years later on DVD; I haven't seen it since the 60s. But I tend to lump it with those anemic, lame Dean Jones Disney comedies of the era that were sold first and foremost as wholesome family entertainment, as if the actual content of the movie was a secondary matter (and it was). But all me or any other kid at the time wanted were spy and monster movies, no matter how many SOUND OF MUSICs we got dragged to for our own good.
2003-04-14 18:42 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Apr 14 2003, 18:01 I dunno, maybe it plays better 40 years later on DVD; I haven't seen it since the 60s. But I tend to lump it with those anemic, lame Dean Jones Disney comedies of the era that were sold first and foremost as wholesome family entertainment, as if the actual content of the movie was a secondary matter (and it was). But all me or any other kid at the time wanted were spy and monster movies, no matter how many SOUND OF MUSICs we got dragged to for our own good.
Hey - I used to like those old Dean Jones movies! Of course I was only 9 or 10 years old.
So that's where you started to go awry! When the PC crackdown comes, we all know what your punishment will be. Like Alex in A Clockwork Orange only with Sound of Music and Mary Poppins movies :lol:
2003-04-14 18:44 | User Profile
Originally posted by Javelin@Apr 14 2003, 17:55 ** No offense, but when I think of a beautiful young woman like that throwing her life away by becoming a nun, it makes me want to vomit.
**
I'm afraid Il Ragno is ragging on your beautiful young woman :lol:
Besides, you obviously haven't been following the latest Catholic Church sex scandals. They make life in a convent sound more like Studio 54
2003-04-14 20:15 | User Profile
ALL --
There are Nazis [shown or mentioned] in only about 4 major scenes in The Sound of Music. Snip those and you have a really, really, White film that glorifies Alpine-type culture and values and music....
2003-04-14 20:43 | User Profile
Originally posted by Franco@Apr 14 2003, 20:15 **ALL --
There are Nazis [shown or mentioned] in only about 4 major scenes in The Sound of Music. Snip those and you have a really, really, White film that glorifies Alpine-type culture and values and music....**
Well I'm not really sure what you would have without the last 4 scenes. To me it seems rather essential to give the character of Maria substance and purpose. Otherwise she is really just a rather manipulative social climber, using the auspices of the Catholic church to gain entrance into the Baron's home to steal his family and him away.
That movie reviewers and viewers overlooked this less adultatory side of her must be abscribed mainly to the distraction of the evil Nazi's, who conveniently march in to provide a diversion at the exact right time, just after her marriage - so we don't get to see her gloating at all the social balls over her catch.
At least that's one likely possibility to me.
2003-04-14 22:02 | User Profile
Franco:
If the idea is to recommend a movie that shows Whites getting along fine without Jews or multi-culturalism then there are a lot of better choices. How about How Green Was My Valley? I believe that was already favorably reviewed by VNN.
There are too many problems of interpretation with Sound of Music to recommend it to people one hopes to convert as is obvious from this thread alone. :punk:
2003-04-14 22:41 | User Profile
I disagree. The Sound of Music puts out such a White/Aryan/blonde frau vibe, despite the few anti-Nazi scenes.
2003-04-14 23:59 | User Profile
Originally posted by Franco@Apr 14 2003, 22:41 ** I disagree. The Sound of Music puts out such a White/Aryan/blonde frau vibe, despite the few anti-Nazi scenes. **
I don't know. You don't just a thing for Julie Andrews do you? You are sounding a bit like one of the Laurie Dhue groupies.
Like Sound of Music, Laurie Dhue certainly has some admirable white women traits but I retain the right to be skepticle until definitely proven that its connected with the contents of her broadcasts.
2003-04-15 02:18 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Apr 14 2003, 12:01 Not to tromp on anyone's cherished memories or anything, but as someone who was around when SOUND OF MUSIC was first released, I can tell you us kids dreaded the prospect of sitting through something so saccharine-dreadful as the singing Von Trapps led by the utterly sexless Julie Andrews. It got so my parents would coerce me into reasonably Good Behavior by threatening to take me to see THE SOUND OF MUSIC; and one ignoble day they made good on that threat, I'm sad to say.
I dunno, maybe it plays better 40 years later on DVD; I haven't seen it since the 60s. But I tend to lump it with those anemic, lame Dean Jones Disney comedies of the era that were sold first and foremost as wholesome family entertainment, as if the actual content of the movie was a secondary matter (and it was). But all me or any other kid at the time wanted were spy and monster movies, no matter how many SOUND OF MUSICs we got dragged to for our own good.**
Oh, no! "That Darned Cat" & "The Ugliest Dachshund" flashbacks!! :shock:
2003-04-15 02:23 | User Profile
Remember Austria before the "Anschluss" was a very Right Wing Nation run by a Fascist Government very like the one Franco built in Spain. Austria was a very un-PC place before the NSDP came forced the "Anschluss." The Film "The Sound of Music" is anti-"Nazi" and anti-"Anschluss", but he may have something in it putting out a "Aryan Blonde" vibe. Today, however, "The Sound of Music" ends up glorifying the wholesome whiteness of 1938 Austria..."
2003-04-15 02:34 | User Profile
**Oh, no! "That Darned Cat" & "The Ugliest Dachshund" flashbacks!! **
Not to mention "The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band"....."Monkeys Go Home!"...."The Happiest Millionaire"...."The Horse In The Gray Flannel Suit"..."The Barefoot Executive"...."The Shaggy DA"...."The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes"....."The Cat From Outer Space".....and a few dozen more just as painful to sit through...
2003-04-15 02:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Apr 14 2003, 20:34 > Oh, no! "That Darned Cat" & "The Ugliest Dachshund" flashbacks!!ÃÂ **
Not to mention "The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band"....."Monkeys Go Home!"...."The Happiest Millionaire"...."The Horse In The Gray Flannel Suit"..."The Barefoot Executive"...."The Shaggy DA"...."The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes"....."The Cat From Outer Space".....and a few dozen more just as painful to sit through...**
Yep. You've reminded me that Kurt Russell got his start at the post-Walt, pre-Eisner Disney Studios... ;)
2003-04-15 02:51 | User Profile
Originally posted by Faust@Apr 15 2003, 02:23 **Remember Austria before the "Anschluss" was a very Right Wing Nation run by a Fascist Government very like the one Franco built in Spain. Austria was a very un-PC place before the NSDP came forced the "Anschluss." The Film "The Sound of Music" is anti-"Nazi" and anti-"Anschluss", but he may have something in it putting out a "Aryan Blonde" vibe. **
Yes, I have read quite a bit about Austria, and upper Austria certainly was, (and to some extent still is, re Haider) a very conservative place, with the beautiful scenery and music of "Sound of Music" certainly make for a refreshing change from today's music, one which is well worth seeing.
The brief political statement in the movie, referring I suppose in real life to the break between the supporters of the Dolfuss governent and the Anschlusers, for that reason is probably minor in significance, I'd agree with that.
I think to a certain extent the Sound of Music, for reasons I referred to, was part of a cultural trend that made it possible to unabashadly praise certain things in Austria and its culture and people impossible to do in a politically acceptable way for Germany. Imagine trying for instance to set the Sound of Music just across the border in Bavaria or Wurtemburg, and making hero's out of Bavarian barons, singing Bavarian or Black Forest Leider. Hollywood obviously never did such. Whenever one sees a movie about Germans they are all movies toned in gray about fat goosestepping Nazi's marching in military parades giving Heil Hitler salutes.
2003-04-15 05:08 | User Profile
Originally posted by Franco@Apr 14 2003, 01:52 ** N.B. -- Yes, a young Shirley Jones is hard to beat. Ditto a young Olivia De Havilland circa 1938... **
Oh yeah. Olivia projected a calm, ladylike grace that was charming. Her sister Joan Fontaine was good, too. Loved her with Orson Welles in Jane Eyre.
2003-04-15 08:04 | User Profile
She's praying to a plant to secure blessings for her heimat. Didn't the SS Ladies' Auxiliary also do this?
She could have been praying to Wehrmacht gebirgsjägeren.
2003-04-15 19:14 | User Profile
** Okkie: That movie reviewers and viewers overlooked this less adultatory side of her must be abscribed mainly to the distraction of the evil Nazi's, who conveniently march in to provide a diversion at the exact right time, just after her marriage - so we don't get to see her gloating at all the social balls over her catch. At least that's one likely possibility to me.** Oh for shame you cynics! This was a lovely LOVE story... She had a "great" love (married to Christ, eh?) that kept her "pure" until she was blindsided by a physical love for a 'real' man! She didn't marry him because he was rich, she married him because he was a masculine, aristocratic, honorable man! How could any girl ask for more?! :heart:
She wouldn't have lorded it over the loser-girls at the balls, she'd've tried to enlist them in aristocratic charity work... feeding the serfs, clothing them in prettier rags, teaching them to use makeup... (Plus, with her christian good-heart, she'd've tried to find the loser-girls good husbands too!)
You guys just DON'T get it!! :rolleyes:
2003-04-16 01:33 | User Profile
Originally posted by Avalanche@Apr 15 2003, 19:14 ** Oh for shame you cynics! This was a lovely LOVE story... She had a "great" love (married to Christ, eh?) that kept her "pure" until she was blindsided by a physical love for a 'real' man! She didn't marry him because he was rich, she married him because he was a masculine, aristocratic, honorable man! How could any girl ask for more?! :heart: .............
You guys just DON'T get it!! :rolleyes: **
Av, I was born in the dark, but it wasn't last night :D