← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Okiereddust
Thread ID: 5569 | Posts: 13 | Started: 2003-03-16
2003-03-16 00:42 | User Profile
[url=http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?page=content&id=10634&repository=0001_article]Stanford Newspaper[/url]
By Helen Kim News Editor Wednesday, March 12, 2003
A group of Stanford students complaining that the flood of skilled international graduate students is making the job search more difficult for U.S. citizens posted fliers throughout east campus graduate student residences at the beginning of the month. Posters reading Beware! H1B and L1 visa programs forcing Americans into unemployment appeared in Escondido Village and Rains Houses, provoking many graduate students to label the claims racist and ignorant.
An H1B is a non-immigrant classification used by an alien who will be employed temporarily in a specialty occupation, according to the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services. Jobs for technicians, lawyers, doctors and accountants, among others, qualify as types of specialty occupations.
According to students rallying against the H1B programs, who call themselves H1B nonbelievers, the U.S. government unnecessarily issues too many H1B visas to international graduate students, allowing these students to compete, often successfully, with U.S. citizens for jobs in the U.S. job market. The fliers also identified Asians and Indians as most responsible for unemployment in the United States.
If the jobs exist and there are not enough engineers to fill them, bring in outsiders to fill the gaps, said Brad Peters, a senior majoring in computer science at Oregon State University who has organized the movement against the H1B program and collaborated with students at Stanford. That was a fine idea in 1999, but today, these gaps simply do not exist. Despite this, the INS program continues to bring specialists into the country . . . Unemployment for engineers has now reached almost 5 percent, the highest it has ever been.
According to Peters, many Stanford students involved in this movement are ethnic minorities who are U.S. citizens. The H1B nonbelievers hope to convince Congress to reduce the number of H1Bs permitted.
The fliers agitated many of the Stanford graduate students not in the H1B movement.
Psychology doctoral candidate Corinna Loeckenhoff informed students in graduate residences of these fliers by e-mail.
The majority of international students do not stay in the U.S. and compete for the job market, Loeckenhoff said. Also, a lot of H1B visa holders are actively recruited by American companies in their home country. Thus, it is not true that all international students eventually end up on a work visa.
Loeckenhoff also mentioned that she was upset with the way the flier focuses on Indians and Asians as the main problem.
Claims that international students are funded by American academic dollars fail to mention that most students work hard as research and teaching assistants, she said, [and its] claiming that international students are forcing Americans into unemployment.
Peters stressed that, contrary to what objections people who saw these posters may have, the H1B movement is not a racial one.
American jobs should go to Americans first, be they black, white, Indian, Mexican, Asian or anything else, Peters said. From the perspective of America, however, by flooding even the most skilled of fields with workers from all over the world, Congress, the INS, and the trend of globalization as a whole is making it impossible for new college graduates to find a job.
Many students remained unconvinced.
[The issue of whether foreign graduate students take jobs that would otherwise go to native-born Americans] has been studied by economists, and in fact they do, said Aaron Master, an electrical engineering graduate student. America should embrace its new citizens and residents with open arms.
Graduate Student Council Financial Officer Jeff Catalano, a fourth year doctoral candidate in geological and environmental sciences, pointed out the applicability of the Universitys Acts of Intolerance Protocol.
These fliers may be considered acts of intolerance, and will probably be investigated by the University, Catalano said.
The manner in which the flyers were distributed may have been a little odd, and there really was no reason to mention that the fact that the H-1Bs are mainly from Asia. But it is really unusually revealing that this group's actions are being labeled "intolerant."
Being afraid of losing one's job, or in this case, not getting a good job in the first place, is not "intolerant." It is very natural and reasonable.
The H-1B program is decimating opportunities for U.S. citizens and permanent residents in high-tech fields. Since I am cc-ing this to some of the people mentioned in the article (none of whom I know; I just found their e-mail addresses on the Web; by the way, Ms. Loeckenhoff, cited in the article as defending H-1Bs, is apparently a foreign student herself), let me insert here a brief overview:
The H-1B program is about cheap labor, pure and simple. Several university studies have shown this, as did the National Research Council report commissioned by Congress in 2000.
The H-1Bs are de facto indentured servants. They out of desperation the H-1Bs formed their own lobbying group, the Immigrants Support Network (www.isn.org) in the late 1990s. The group has referred to the program as "modern day slavery." That language might be a bit extreme for a white-collar job, but the fact is that they are paid less than Americans and the program does make them immobile.
There are currently about 400,000 H-1Bs working in high-tech, while there are more than 100,000 high-tech U.S. citizens and permanent residents who are unemployed. And that UNDERSTATES the problem, because many more citizens/permanent residents have been forced to get non-tech jobs, often menial ones, just to get an income, and thus don't count in the unemployment statistics.
The industry lobbyists basically bought off Congress so that Congress would expand the H-1B program, in 1998 and 2000. This is fact, not speculation; Sen. Bennett of Utah and Rep. Davis of Virginia both stated this publicly.
The industry has repeatedly misled Congress and the American public about their intentions regarding H-1B. Sun Microsystem, for instance, testified to the U.S. Senate in 1998 that it only employs H-1Bs if it cannot find qualified Americans for the jobs. Sun said this repeatedly in that testimony, and Sun CEO McNealy repeatedly made the same statements in an op-ed in USA Today in 2000. Yet now Sun admits to laying off Americans while retaining H-1Bs in the same jobs, and indeed stated in court that it does not give Americans priority in hiring either.
[url=http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html]Norm Matloff's Congressional Testimony[/url]
2003-03-18 15:56 | User Profile
A group of Stanford students complaining that the flood of skilled international graduate students is making the job search more difficult for U.S. citizens posted fliers throughout east campus graduate student residences at the beginning of the month. Posters reading Beware! H1B and L1 visa programs forcing Americans into unemployment appeared in Escondido Village and Rains Houses, provoking many graduate students to label the claims racist and ignorant.
This is very, very, funny. So the little liberals indoctrinated into the diversity worship cult are revolting. Must have gotten a little taste of reality, probably from some of their upperclassmen who have now realized that walking out with their liberal arts degree no longer guarantees em a 50K starting position in some tech outfit.
Not a peep as blue collar jobs were shipped wholesale to China, Taiwan, and Mexico, but tread on their turf and suddenly mass immigration and H1B handouts to undercut the labor pool is not such a good idea. Go Figure!
2003-03-18 16:02 | User Profile
Originally posted by jeffersonian@Mar 18 2003, 08:56 **Must have gotten a little taste of reality, probably from some of their upperclassmen who have now realized that walking out with their liberal arts degree no longer guarantees em a 50K starting position in some tech outfit. **
I don't think many people go to Stanford to get a liberal arts degree. It's about engineering and computer science majors who pay through the nose to "have it made" after graduation. Also, 75k for a start used to be about what a Stanford graduate would get in Silicon Valley :blink:
2003-03-18 16:26 | User Profile
Now they can get $5.35 an hour at Mickey D's!
Oh wait, they're "overqualified" and probably white to boot.
2003-03-18 21:55 | User Profile
**I'm with Jeffersonian:
Screw the assholes! Support H1s! **
Again RBAN you misunderstand. My point was just the opposite, I simply find it humorous that those who traditionally scream "diversity is our greatest asset" now find it biting them in the ass.
I do not support importation of low wage, half skilled, semi-professionals to take traditionally high paying technology jobs from Americans simply because they will work for the corporate crooks like slaves for lower wages and a chance to raise their children in a country where bathing in sewage and worshiping with cow crap is not the norm.
By the way Mad, I was being facitious as I tend to think of the socialist, we-are-the-world, diversity wimps as epitomized by the liberal arts crowd but of course even Georga Tech & MIT are cranking them out these days.
2003-03-18 23:06 | User Profile
I'm with ya.
I was making the point that jobs are being snatched at the high end of the scale, while the lower-skilled ones are being taken here or exported as well.
Damned if you do (spend lots o' $$$ on a fancy degree), damned if you don't (try to get a low/semi-skilled job these days that ain't filled by an aff-act gamma-minus).
2003-03-19 04:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by rban@Mar 18 2003, 21:16 ** Within the next decade ther will not ve a single professional occupation thta will not be occupied by a Hindu. We will rule the planet and nothing will stop us. **
Okie, is that you? :lol:
2003-03-19 18:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by madrussian@Mar 19 2003, 04:40 > Originally posted by rban@Mar 18 2003, 21:16 The biggest favor you can do India & Hindus is to under-estimate them as you obviously do. So carry on...you are only helping my cause. I can always point to bigots like you as reasons NOT to cancel the H1 programme and otherwise advance my goals.
Within the next decade ther will not ve a single professional occupation thta will not be occupied by a Hindu. We will rule the planet and nothing will stop us. **
Okie, is that you? :lol:**
Rban's rants are just an expression of his typical mentality expressing multiculturalist dogma, which is to use talk of "diversity" as battering ram of hate against the cultural cohesiveness of the majority. And one thing rban expresses very well is to show, in a carcitural form at times, how that malignant hate can coexist with a feeling that one is fighting bigotry.
In that sense rban is really just a hum hum expression of ideological conformity, from a typical silicon valley tech philistine who goes along with the ideological status quo having no cultural beliefs or roots of his own. In that regard, rban quite probably could be who he claims to be. His thinking, devoid of the hyprebolic cant, is little different than a lot of the ITAA pro-imigration elite.
2003-03-19 19:45 | User Profile
Originally posted by rban@Mar 19 2003, 19:26 **Nothing ho-hum about me, I'm afraid. I despise many, in fact perhaps most, nonwhite minorities, with the exception of you-know-who. Name a multi-cultist who feels and spews the kind of venom that I do against certain minorities.
I only oppose bigotry against Hindus. All other forms of bigotry are fine with me. Just keep your grubby paws off my Hindus, that's all I ask.**
No, you don't love Hindu's, you just use them as your attack dogs against our culture, like any good multiculturalist/western Marxist does. And a great many of them do, starting with Karl Marx, who literally hated everybody.
The words Marx biographer attributed to him might well be applied to you and your other business multiculturalists, who, like in Marx stories which he loved to tell his children, can only survive by selling our culture's dearest traditions to the devil.
**There can be very little doubt that those interminable atories were autobiographical. He hads the Devil's view of the world, and the Devil's malignity. Sometimes he seemed to know he was accomplishing works of evil.
2003-03-19 23:30 | User Profile
I can always point to bigots like you as reasons NOT to cancel the H1 programme and otherwise advance my goals.
While others cry for your banishment I have always supported your right to post this aryan-hindu nonsense, and have even called to your attention when other were exhibiting anti-hindite behavior... and this is the thanks I get!
Bigot indeed.
I have simply spent enough time in India, Pakistan, and much of Southeast Asia so as to be able to, in my humble opinion, assess the capabilities, qualities, and inherent usefulness of the population indigenous thereto.
Just because I believe a flood of Hindu tradesmen flooding into the country is no more useful than the millions of Mexicans.....THAT is no reason for name calling.
2003-03-20 02:48 | User Profile
** If the jobs exist and there are not enough engineers to fill them, bring in outsiders to fill the gaps, said Brad Peters, a senior majoring in computer science at Oregon State University who has organized the movement against the H1B program and collaborated with students at Stanford. **
It is simply not logical to have unemployment, welfare, free government education, and imported labor while at the same time saying that there are people who cant find jobs who want to work, the welfare class. And that government is the best provider of education while saying that Americans are not educated enough to do the work as people from 3rd world countries can come in and outperform our natively educated folks. Mr. Peters needs to realize that its time to shut the borders and clean house.
2003-03-20 07:31 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Mar 19 2003, 19:45 ** No, you don't love Hindu's, you just use them as your attack dogs against our culture, like any good multiculturalist/western Marxist does. And a great many of them do, starting with Karl Marx, who literally hated everybody.
**
Spot on Okiereddust. The zhids forever use different minorities as a cudgel against whites. Whether it was the Snivel Rights ... excuse me, Civil Rights Movement, "refugees", or third world immigration, it's all the same in the end. Chaos. And when you are in control, chaos is just fine as a tool to keep the masses under your heel, divide and conquer. Rban no more believes that drivel he spews than any of us do. It's all to irritate, or for the more lowbrow, who aren't on this board, to brainwash. Maybe he should become a freeper.
2003-03-20 07:38 | User Profile
**Name a multi-cultist who feels and spews the kind of venom that I do against certain minorities. **
Hispanics and blacks are in competition with one another, and both groups have shown animosity towards Jews lately.