← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Texas Dissident
Thread ID: 5392 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2003-03-07
2003-03-07 11:10 | User Profile
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030307/people_nm/gibson_1]Actor Mel Gibson takes up traditional Catholicism[/url]
LOS ANGELES, (Reuters) - After waging war against what they see as radical changes made by the Vatican (news - web sites), Catholic traditionalists have a new weapon: star power in the person of actor Mel Gibson (news), according to an article to be published on Sunday in the New York Times Magazine.
Gibson, a follower of traditional Catholicism with its Latin mass and rejection of Vatican II reforms, helped finance construction of a new traditionalist church near Malibu and is completing a self-financed film in two dead languages -- Aramaic and Latin -- on the last 12 hours in the life of Christ, the article said.
A friend of the Gibson family is quoted as telling the article's author, freelance writer Christopher Noxon, that Gibson will graphically portray the intense suffering of Christ, "perhaps as no film has done before." Gibson is directing the film.
The friend, Gary Giuffre, a traditionalist Catholic, also said that the film will lay the blame for the death of Christ where it belong -- a reference that some traditionalists believe means the Jewish authorities who presided over his trial, the article said.
A spokesman for Gibson had no comment, saying he had not seen the article. Sources close to the actor said Gibson's religious views and those of his family were known.
In January, Gibson told television host Bill O'Reilly that Noxon was doing a "hit piece" on him and digging into his private life and harassing his father, Hutton Gibson, an opponent of the Vatican for 30 years and author of such books as "Is the Pope Catholic?"
In an interview with Noxon, the elder Gibson is quoted as saying that Vatican II was "a Masonic plot backed by the Jews." Sources who know the actor say that he and his father have many differences of opinion.
In his interview with O'Reilly, Gibson was asked whether his account might particularly upset Jews. He said, "It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth."
Reuters/Variety
*Of all the potential side stories and follow-ups that could be done on this latest bit of news, what is the angle we are first treated to -- why of course, is this good or bad for the Jews? What a surprise. *
2003-03-07 13:45 | User Profile
TD --
Gibson's devote Catholicism came through loud and clear in the movie "We Were Soldiers" (which I only got around to watching last week and which is now in my all time top ten).
As to the Jew connection to Vatican II reforms: I have long opined that the REAL AND ULTIMATE enemy of the Zionists is Christianity, in general, and Catholicism, in particular. I can see it.
2003-03-07 15:13 | User Profile
Tex, I'm counting the days to when I can view the future classic "The Passion". I'm a Protestant but acknowledge the Roman Catholic Church as the spiritual force which helped build the West. Also, media attacks on the Catholic church I view as attacks on all Christianity....and I don't like it.
2003-03-07 17:01 | User Profile
Check out this link that Londo just posted:
[url=http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/crimes...anity/index.htm]http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/crimes...anity/index.htm[/url]
2003-03-07 17:25 | User Profile
I think that the argument that flares up among the posters here and on other boards, whether Christianity is good for the whites, would have never happened if those against Christianity were familiar with the traditional Christianity rather than that satanic judaeo-"christian" perversion.
Judaeo-"christianity" is no Christianity. So let's define the terminology first.
2003-03-07 18:33 | User Profile
Thanks so much Tex for posting this article which I wouuld have missed otherwise.
MadRussian you are quite correct in my opinion.
2003-03-07 23:36 | User Profile
Awesome. I wonder if printing "Gibson for Pope" t-shirts is a bit premature...?
2003-03-08 17:16 | User Profile
**LA Rabbi Asks Mel Gibson to Reconsider Jesus Film Fri Mar 7,10:05 PM ET Add Entertainment - Reuters to My Yahoo!
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A prominent Jewish leader on Friday asked actor Mel Gibson (news) to make certain that his new film on the last 12 hours in the life of Christ does not portray the Jews as collectively responsible for the crucifixion.
Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, said he was concerned because an article to be published in the New York Times Magazine portrays Gibson as a traditionalist Catholic opposed to the reforms of Vatican (news - web sites) II.
Heir said, "Obviously, no one has seen 'The Passion' and I certainly have no problem with Mel Gibson's right to believe as he sees fit or make any movie he wants to. What concerns me, however is when I read that the film's purpose is to undo the changes made by Vatican II."
He said that Vatican conclave was convened to deal with several critical issues, including the rejection of the notion that the Jews were collectively responsible for the death of Jesus.
"If the new film seeks to undo Vatican II ... it would unleash more of the scurrilous charges of deicide directed against the Jewish people, which took the Catholic Church 20 centuries to finally repudiate," he said.
Gibson is completing the self-financed film on the last 12 hours in the life of Christ and a friend of the Gibson family is quoted as telling the Times that Gibson will graphically portray the intense suffering of Christ, "perhaps as no film has done before." Gibson is directing the film.
The friend, Gary Giuffre, a traditionalist Catholic, also said that the film will lay the blame for the death of Christ where it belongs -- a reference that some traditionalists believe means the Jewish authorities who presided over his trial, the article said.
A spokesman for Gibson had no comment, saying he had not seen the article. Sources close to the actor said Gibson's religious views and those of his family were known.
Discussing his film in a recent TV interview, Gibson was asked whether his account might particularly upset Jews. He said, "It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth."**
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=579&e=3&cid=638&u=/nm/20030308/en_nm/leisure_passion_dc]LINK[/url]
2003-03-08 17:20 | User Profile
**Mel's mad at cult slur By Anna Cock 08mar03
MEL Gibson has reportedly gone "ballistic" over a magazine article depicting him as an adherent of a loony, cult-like offshoot of the Catholic Church.
He has already accused the reporter of crafting a "hit piece" which muck-rakes through his private life and banking affairs. "Mel has played hardball with me the whole time, and gone ballistic," Christopher Noxon said yesterday on the eve of his story going to press in the Sunday Times magazine.
Noxon's article claims Gibson embraces "a strain of Catholicism rooted in the dictates of a 16th-century papal council and nurtured by a splinter group of conspiracy-minded Catholics, mystics, monarchists and disaffected conservatives".
The group hates the Pope, celebrates mass in Latin, fasts on Fridays and requires women to wear hats in church.
The 47-year-old actor-director refused to be interviewed for the article.
Noxon quotes Gibson's 85-year-old father Hutton attacking the reformist Second Vatican Council as "a Masonic plot backed by the Jews" and describing the Pope as "Garrulous Karolus, the Koran kisser".
Mel Gibson, one of 11 children, was raised by a father who banned television and preached on the evils of drink and extramarital sex.**
[url=http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6094348%255E10431,00.html]LINK[/url]
2003-03-09 13:03 | User Profile
You're not allowed to have any religious parables of martyrdom and redemption but one.
[u]The Six Million who died for your sins.[/u]
Oh, you can flip thru the Old Testament if you need an additional Bible story or two. NOT the New. The New Testament will soon be Outlaw Mythology.
If it isn't already.
2003-03-09 20:29 | User Profile
Pithy and well stated MR.
Unfortunately those not reared in the faith will watch Benny Hinn et al on tv and come to believe this is mainstream, even traditional, Christianity.
2003-03-11 14:56 | User Profile
**He said that Vatican conclave was convened to deal with several critical issues, including the rejection of the notion that the Jews were collectively responsible for the death of Jesus.
"If the new film seeks to undo Vatican II ... it would unleash more of the scurrilous charges of deicide directed against the Jewish people, which took the Catholic Church 20 centuries to finally repudiate," he said. **
He's actually intimating here that Jews were somehow behind John XXIII's convocation of Vatican II.
I can't say that's correct, but given the horrific effects Vatican II had on the life and power of the Church, I have to say it would make some intuitive sense. It has to be more complicated than that, though. John Paul II was one of the architects of Vatican II, and as much as I hate to say it I think that some of the things he's done (praying in a synagogue, saying good things about VooDoo practioners, praying in a Mosque) are enough to make me suspect his orthodoxy.
He was something of a Modernist although I think that most (and maybe he) don't fully realize it. He's cast as a "conservative", but a real conservative wouldn't have done those things.
As a Catholic, I'm stuck with Vatican II. I see no way around the impossibility of remaining a loyal Catholic while simultaneously rejecting the Council.
But if I could, I would. Before Vatican II, American Catholic families had almost no divorce, they had a very high fertility rate (and they were overwhelmingly white), the seminaries and convents were full, they built hospitals and schools and were leaders in American arts and letters, priests were the icons of self-sacrificing masculinity (Bing Crosby in "Bells of St. Mary's"), the faithful were instructed well in doctrine and given clear moral guidelines, received standards were understood to be eternal, and on and on.
Now, priests are perceived (and not without justification) as sexual perverts and emotional cripples, Catholics use birth control and murder their own babies through abortion at rates indistinguishable from the rest of the population, Catholics know basically nothing of their faith (the Baltimore Catechism was replaced with pop psychology), there is no longer an distinguishably Catholic contribution to the arts or letters, the seminaries and convents are empty, and Catholics are barely reproducing themselves.
As Jesus said, "by their fruits you shall know them." Vatican II bore rotten fruit, and I see no way to avoid the conclusion that it was somehow a poisoned root.
A bomb went off in the Church when the Council closed nearly 40 years ago. We're still trying to figure out what happened.
Ecumenical greetings to my brother in Christ, Texas Dissident.
Walter
2003-03-11 15:50 | User Profile
Walter:
What thoughts do you have about the Society of St. Pius X, if any? Their site is sspx.org.
Just finished Thomas Reeves' biography of Fulton Sheen. (Reeves sounds like a generic neocon). I never realized the extent of Sheen's involvment in V II, but he was an unabashed enthusiast. Though he lived until 1979, long enough to see the consequences, he never renounced or qualified that position.
Reeves argues that Pius XII wanted to convene V II. I disagree. Many calls were made to continue the work of V I, which was suspended in 1870, but no one did before John XXIII. It seems to me more revealing that Pius resisted those calls, perhaps sensing what was in store, i.e., that the modernists were waiting for their opportunity to take over. That they did.
2003-03-13 19:44 | User Profile
[url=http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/newsdesk_info.php?newsdesk_id=18]http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/new...?newsdesk_id=18[/url]
News Story:
Is the Pope Catholic...Enough?
March 9, 2003 By CHRISTOPHER NOXON NYTimes.com The first sign that something unusual was going on up the hill was the appearance of a fleet of brand-new Volkswagen bugs, lined up on a muddy bluff like a row of oversize Easter eggs. It was a local handyman who spotted them while he was out on a walk through this little valley in the mountains northwest of Los Angeles, near Malibu. Neighbors had already been talking about the 16-acre property on the valley's south slope, and soon word spread that a church group called Holy Family had purchased the site with plans to break ground for a 9,300-square-foot Mission-style church complex.
Among the neighbors who wondered about the new arrival was my father, a recently retired documentary filmmaker who joined the local homeowners association when he moved to the area two years ago. This latest project, however, wasn't the usual commercial complex or .........