← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Centinel
Thread ID: 5353 | Posts: 8 | Started: 2003-03-05
2003-03-05 08:10 | User Profile
From Reuters, available online at: [url=http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2326548]http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=...storyID=2326548[/url]
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Tue March 4, 2003 07:55 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.
According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.
Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly.
"I told them the analogy was not good and I was then hauled off to night court where I was arraigned after pleading not guilty and released on my own recognizance," Downs told Reuters in a telephone interview.
Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.
Calls to the Guilderland police and district attorney, Anthony Cardona and to officials at the mall were not returned for comment.
Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17.
He could face up to a year in prison if convicted.
2003-03-05 11:19 | User Profile
Only in fkg America!....More of that New World Order predicted by old man Bush.
2003-03-05 13:46 | User Profile
**Is this America still?
Yes, Soviet America, that is.**
2003-03-05 14:51 | User Profile
Back in my teenage years, I was thrown out of lots of places for having "racist" attire. However, no one ever called the police on me and I was never charged with any kind of crime.
The manager of a Cracker Barrel told me and a friend we had to leave once because our t-shirts were offensive to a couple of black customers wearing malcom X shirts. I told her that we will leave but were filing a lawsuit. She quickly changed her mind and let us stay.
2003-03-05 16:54 | User Profile
Arresting a man at a public mall for wearing a pro-peace shirt reflects the NAZI-like mentality of many neocons who want war with Iraq.
2003-03-06 20:27 | User Profile
Unbelievable. I dont really go for filing lawsuits, but this guy has a good case if anybody does.
2003-03-07 14:38 | User Profile
I lurked and perused America's "Premier Conservative" website, FreeRepublic, and it may be there somewhere but I could not locate a discussion of this.
I wonder how those FR "conservatives" would handle this conumdrum? Pull the thread and ban the poster, yes?
Upon further search, here it is:
[url=http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/858231/posts]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/858231/posts[/url]
An interesting read -- must make the typical neocon FR fruad uncomfortable and confused.
2003-03-08 00:20 | User Profile
Rember this before reading what the Freepers said.
A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.
According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
From FR thread.
To: Indy Pendance
I think we should be concerned about incidents like this. For better or for worse, the private shopping mall has replaced our "public square." These men were wearing shirts with a political message and apparently they were thrown out of the "public square" because the private owners didn't like the message.
What if the T-shirts read "Jesus loves you"?
or "support our troops"
or "abortion stops a beating heart"
Unless the message is profane, obscene, or libelous to individuals or groups, then we should protect the expression even though it's a private shopping mall. This is because the private shopping mall is our public square.
The mall put main street out of business, and therefore has a responsiblity to permit the political discourse that once occurred on main street in the public square.
A better solution is for communities to simply zone out covered shopping malls as health hazards or something like that.
8 posted on 03/06/2003 7:39 AM PST by grasshopper2
To: grasshopper2
Read the report in post 7 to see what actually happened. These guys didn't get thrown out for their t-shirts though that's the way the media portrays it.
Post 7 [url=http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/crossgates2.gif]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/art2/...crossgates2.gif[/url]
12 posted on 03/06/2003 8:24 AM PST by fellowpatriot
To: fellowpatriot
they got thrown out because other people were arguing with them? were the other people thrown out too? or was the only difference in who was picked on by the security the t-shirts that were beign worn.
13 posted on 03/06/2003 8:42 AM PST by onetimeatbandcamp
To: fellowpatriot
Read the report in post 7 to see what actually happened
According to the security guard's report, a "customer reported that these two gentlemen were having a VERBAL [emphasis mine] dispute with another group."
Okay, so the two men, a father and son, aged 50 and 30 were discussing public policy in the mall. Did the woman report a disturbance? Where the men drunken? Were they pushing and shoving? Shouting? Engaged in public lewdness? Were they using profane language? No - the woman reported that she was "afraid" about what it could "lead" to. DO you see the danger of this?
What if some people wearing an "abortion stops a beating heart" started discussing abortion with some pro-choice people in the mall? Should the mere discussion of abortion be banned?
Should the mere discussion of any political issue be banned?
Should Free Republic be banned?
How can anybody seriously agree that the mall owner was justified in expelling people simply for expressing a political opinion?
What would Patrick Henry say?
14 posted on 03/06/2003 8:48 AM PST by grasshopper2
To: Indy Pendance; grasshopper2
Now, it appears that the mall owner and "authorities" have decided to bend over to monetary interests and avoid continuing the bad publicity that their actions have generated so far.
So, the score is now, Constitution: 1, PC Fascism: 0
:-)
16 posted on 03/06/2003 10:12 AM PST by Hail Caesar