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Thread ID: 5067 | Posts: 23 | Started: 2003-02-17
2003-02-17 17:44 | User Profile
I wonder why Jesse Jackson is involved in this, since it's apparently a Black club. Who's he planning to shake down?
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20689-2003Feb17?language=printer]At Least 21 Die in Chicago Night Club Stampede[/url]
Reuters Monday, February 17, 2003; 12:19 PM
By Andrew Stern
CHICAGO (Reuters) - At least 21 people were killed, mostly trampled or crushed to death, at a Chicago night club on Monday when they scrambled to escape fumes from a crowd control spray used to break up a fight, fire department and local media reports said.
"People just died in my arms," Tonita Matthews, a young woman who was at the club and tried to help those injured, told the Chicago NBC television affiliate.
Witnesses said a fight broke out between two women and a security guard used a crowd control agent, perhaps pepper spray, to break it up. Patrons began to flee the fumes and were told they had to exit down a steep front stairway, witnesses said, even though there was at least one rear exit.
Some of those trying to flee apparently tripped or fell in the stairwell causing a human avalanche. Bodies, living and dead, piled up behind a double glass exit door that was apparently jammed shut by the crush. Patrons said only one door was open to prevent people from sneaking in without paying.
There were an estimated 1,500 party goers in a second floor dance hall above the Epitome restaurant on Chicago's near South Side when the stampede occurred before 3 a.m. CST.
Matthews said she was at the front of a group which ran down the stairs and managed to get out the front door where she started giving CPR. While some responded she said she knows at least one man died in her arms and fears she lost others as well.
"I seen so many people on top of each other dead," she said.
TRAPPED IN A PILE OF BODIES
Lamont James Jr., who works for the Chicago park district, said he was trapped for a while in a pile of bodies on the front stairs but managed to escape.
"The bodies were literally piled up from the top to the bottom of the stairs," he told WGN television in Chicago. He also said a rear exit was not open.
The Chicago Fire Department said four died at the scene and many more were taken away suffering cardiac arrest. It did not have a final official death toll but the Chicago Tribune and other media outlets said a check of several hospitals to which victims were taken showed that 21 had died.
The club was in a black entertainment district south of downtown Chicago, across the street from the Chicago Defender newspaper. There are two or three night spots not far away, including the Cotton Club.
The Epiome is an upscale restaurant occupying the first floor, while the dance floor above called "E-2" features music provided by disc jockeys and occupies a large area, perhaps half a block long.
Patrons said the dance club was a popular late-night partying spot for many, and had been the site of after-concert gatherings for stars such as P. Diddy and R. Kelly.
The Rev. Jesse Jackson, who came to the scene, said he had been told that between 18 and 20 people had perished in the stampede and that the tragedy was clearly accidental.
The club was packed with party-goers staying out before dawn on Monday's national holiday.
Derrick Mosley, a community activist who lives in the area, said some in the area had been concerned about some violent incidents that had occurred in or near the club and that the venue was often heavily crowded.
2003-02-17 17:48 | User Profile
LOL! I was just reading that story when Reverend Jack-Ass appeared in print. That's hilarious. Yeah, Jack-Ass, lean on that faith of yours - the same faith you use to exthort people and impregnate mistresses.
-Jay
2003-02-17 19:56 | User Profile
Chicago channel 5 slideshow picturing the events as they "went down"- [url=http://html.nbc5.com/sh/slideshow/_auto/sh11818s1.html]http://html.nbc5.com/sh/slideshow/_auto/sh11818s1.html[/url]
2003-02-17 20:17 | User Profile
I don't think race plays any part in this one. This is crowds + panic, period, and a horrific way to die. Not unlike that Cincinnati Who concert-stampede some years back. When I saw the death toll, I was amazed that there was no fire involved.
Jay: "LOL?" Really? "That's hilarious?" No, that's depraved. Tell me again about that wholesome"Christian faith" of yours.....
2003-02-19 14:56 | User Profile
FEB 18 2003
Derrick Mosley is an upstart community activist who thought he had something special to contribute in the aftermath of Monday's deadly stampede at the E2 Chicago nightclub: a letter he says he sent two months ago to the club's president warning about overcrowded conditions and the potential for "catastrophic" results. Mosley brought copies of his letter to Rainbow PUSH headquarters, where the Rev. Jesse Jackson was holding a combination prayer vigil and press briefing. Mosley said he'd been invited. It seemed like the kind of thing Jackson might showcase. But when he started passing out his letters, Mosley found himself about as welcome as the proverbial skunk at a garden party.
One of the club's owners, Dwain Kyles, is a longtime Jackson friend and PUSH supporter. His father, the Rev. Samuel "Billy" Kyles, preached the sermon at Rainbow PUSH over the weekend while Jackson was in London for the anti-war march.
[url=http://www.suntimes.com/output/news...ws-brown18.html]http://www.suntimes.com/output/news...ws-brown18.html[/url]
2003-02-19 16:28 | User Profile
"Jackson called for an independent investigation of the tragedy."
Most blacks will believe that whites are somehow responsible. Jackson showing up and calling for an indepedent investigation is all the negro community needs to know that racist whites were up to some sinister activity. Again, whites get the blame for what blacks do and whites will get the punishment -- one way or another.
"The fact is safety codes were not enforced and itââ¬â¢s the job of inspectors and officials to do just that... We are 10 blocks from the police department, less than that from the mayorââ¬â¢s house... [Police] knew people were here... The place has been open. They've been advertising on the radio and the Internet. [The city] had to have knowledge it was being used. The un-enforced law is a factor here." said Jackson.
At the very least, ngger thoughts will be "White cops don't care about the lives and safety of blacks so they ignored the club's violations... Hll, I wouldn't be surprized if some cracker slipped in and sprayed that pepper spray to cause a panic."
2003-02-19 16:48 | User Profile
I'm not sure I agree that there is no racial aspect to this tragedy.
A few years back- not all that long ago, when I still had an occasional social life i.e. pre-kids, Buckhead in Atlanta was a thriving restaurant/entertainment district. Lots of clubs, good food, fairly low-stress environment. Not a real big-city scene, just mostly a place where young single guys went to chase the big-haired women from the suburbs and trendy young professionals mixed in with the college crowd.
Then hip-hop clubs started to expand out from Midtown and Downtown, the trendoids started to mix with the thugs coming up from the projects, and before you know it we had Ray Lewis knifing 5-foot-tall "assailants" and beating the rap to get his Super Bowl ring. This has continued, and now I hear that Buckhead is a risky proposition compared to the relatively calm beer and babes center it used to be.
There will be a similar incident in Atlanta soon enough, and maybe we'll be lucky enough for Jesse to come straighten it out for us corrupt whities.
Below, a new category of enterprise has been identified:
The Legitimate Black Business.
Sounds kind of like what the Corelone's had in mind when they left the olive oil biz behind for casinos and prostitution.
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-02-17-club-violation_x.htm]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-0...violation_x.htm[/url]
Chicago had been trying to close E2 nightclub By Debbie Howlett, USA TODAY
CHICAGO ââ¬â City officials had been trying for seven months to shut down the E2 nightclub, where 21 people died in a stampede Monday. But the club's owner had support from prominent black civic leaders who lobbied to keep the club open, an official said Tuesday.
Police Superintendent Terry Hillard said at a news conference that he was contacted by Jesse Jackson and others who supported the club. In July, a housing court judge ordered the club to close because of building and fire code violations. "There were some phone calls made," Hillard said. He said the callers, including Jackson, told him "this was a legitimate black business, and would I see what I could do."
Jackson said later in an interview that he never asked anyone to ignore building or fire code violations or not to enforce the law. He said he asked for a greater police presence outside the club. "The city is running for cover," Jackson said.
Club owner Dwain Kyles is the son of one of Jackson's longtime friends from the civil rights era, the Rev. Samuel "Billy" Kyles. Hillard previously moonlighted on Jackson's security detail.
"I know a lot of people. I'm a member of this community. I talk to them," Jackson said. "There's nothing untoward in that."
Hillard insisted the calls had no effect on city officials in following court procedures to try to get the club to fix the code violations.
The nightclub has been operating continuously every weekend since July, Jackson said. Mayor Richard Daley said the owner should have obeyed the court order. "You don't have a right to disobey a court order until someone catches you or until a disaster happens," he said.
Mara Georges, the city's lawyer, said, "These people were bent on breaking the law. There was nothing the city could have done, absent being at the property 24 hours a day, seven days a week."
Georges was in court Tuesday to ask Circuit Judge Daniel Lynch to "padlock" the premises and immediately jail Kyles on contempt of court charges. Lynch refused to jail Kyles because he had not been given proper notice of the hearing. The judge gave Kyles 10 days to appear in court for the criminal contempt charges.
Lawyers for Kyles' company, Le Mirage, agreed to close the second-floor nightclub and first-floor restaurant until the legal issues are resolved.
The mayor said police will vigorously pursue the investigation into who is responsible for causing the chaos in the club that led to the 21 deaths.
"This tragedy is especially heartbreaking, first, because the victims were so young, and, second, because it was a disaster that absolutely shouldn't have happened," Daley said.
The stampede early Monday, in which 57 people were injured, was the worst such incident in the nation.
Fire Commissioner James Joyce said one of the security guards at the club admitted using pepper spray to break up a fight on the dance floor. The stinging mist sent hundreds of patrons running for the front entrance ââ¬â a narrow stairwell that led to double doors on the first floor. "There was reckless conduct on the part of management," Joyce said. "I've been around a long time. I've never heard of spraying a crowd. That's tantamount to yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded theater."
Meanwhile, police want to question the promoter of Sunday night's dance, Marco Flores of Envy Productions & Entertainment. Flores and Le Mirage were both responsible for providing security guards. The legal focus, however, was on Le Mirage and owner Kyles, who is cooperating with the police.
Andre Grant, a lawyer for Le Mirage, said, "Dwain is traumatized. ... That's the thing people don't understand. It is a rush to judgment in what is no more than an absolutely terrible tragedy ââ¬â no more and no less."
2003-02-20 20:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Feb 17 2003, 14:17 ** I don't think race plays any part in this one. This is crowds + panic, period, and a horrific way to die. **
Il, I can't tell if you're joking, but the way I see it, this catastrophe was black on the outside, black on the inside, and slathered all over with thick layers of extra-black black. First, two bitches be steppin' to each otha. Then, security done tried to break it up. Then, peppa spray be all ovah. Then, dem excitable nigras done jump up an' dey be screamin' 'n' hollerin'. Den dey be hoot hoot hootin' dey way out. Negro, let me out! No, negro, let me out! Sheet, negro, let ME out! Damn!
The tinder was the over-packed, unsafely maintained "social club," a big favorite of the non-White folks. The spark was the naturally uncontrolled behavior of the negro. Could the same thing happen to Whites? Give me an example and I'll consider it. Meanwhile, as noted by the other posters, Whites will be blamed and blacks will strut like the fool chickens they are.
Like AIDS, violent crime and child neglect, the black penchant for gatherings run amok is yet another example of how these wooly-haired, jut-lipped subhumans kill themselves with their own animalistic behavior. Then compound the damage by making Whites feel guilty and squeezing them for dollars. All the while, hymie cackles in the corner, becaue he's made something off it somehow. Watch for the Jewish plaintiff's lawyer to enter stage right.
Hey! It's like the Onion said. This racist propaganda practically writes itself!
2003-02-20 20:53 | User Profile
Originally posted by Hugh Lincoln@Feb 20 2003, 14:39 **Could the same thing happen to Whites? Give me an example and I'll consider it. **
That's easy. Take your pick from [url=http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-club-deaths-stampedes0217feb17,0,7826323.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnation%2Dheadlines] these examples[/url]. Not too hard to pick out the ones involving white folks.
I think IR was sincere and I agree with him. I can't think of too many other more horrible ways to die, except for maybe being burned or boiled alive.
2003-02-20 21:24 | User Profile
**Il, I can't tell if you're joking, but the way I see it, this catastrophe was black on the outside, black on the inside, and slathered all over with thick layers of extra-black black.ÃÂ First, two bitches be steppin' to each otha.ÃÂ Then, security done tried to break it up.ÃÂ Then, peppa spray be all ovah.ÃÂ Then, dem excitable nigras done jump up an' dey be screamin' 'n' hollerin'.ÃÂ Den dey be hoot hoot hootin' dey way out.ÃÂ Negro, let me out!ÃÂ No, negro, let me out!ÃÂ Sheet, negro, let ME out!ÃÂ Damn!
The tinder was the over-packed, unsafely maintained "social club," a big favorite of the non-White folks.ÃÂ The spark was the naturally uncontrolled behavior of the negro.ÃÂ Could the same thing happen to Whites?ÃÂ Give me an example and I'll consider it.ÃÂ Meanwhile, as noted by the other posters, Whites will be blamed and blacks will strut like the fool chickens they are.
Like AIDS, violent crime and child neglect, the black penchant for gatherings run amok is yet another example of how these wooly-haired, jut-lipped subhumans kill themselves with their own animalistic behavior.ÃÂ Then compound the damage by making Whites feel guilty and squeezing them for dollars.ÃÂ All the while, hymie cackles in the corner, becaue he's made something off it somehow.ÃÂ Watch for the Jewish plaintiff's lawyer to enter stage right.
Hey!ÃÂ It's like the Onion said.ÃÂ This racist propaganda practically writes itself! **
Hugh I like your writing style, although no disrespect to IR's post. Although there have been a few stampede deaths at White rock concerts, the moment I first read this story of death in Chicago, I immediately knew it was a black thang. Call it racial intuition.
2003-02-21 00:44 | User Profile
Crowds are very dangerous when everyone is wanting to go some place faster than circumstances allow. The little shoves of hundreds of people adds up and becomes bone crushing pressure. Should you fall, the people around will be pushed over you, even if they are trying to avoid trampling you. Rock concerts and sporting events can be more dangerous because of the young punks who attend these things and who act, uh, thoughtlessly.
It was raw idiocy for a security person to use pepper spay in a crowded room.
I'm sure that if this were a white club that the people would have managed to exit without casualties. If you look at the list of stampede events, there's no example of deaths resulting from a crowd of white adults (I assume the black club was carding).
But, what makes this incident so deserving of bashing is that racism against whites was used to keep the club open and now racism against whites is openly being used to avoid blaming those responsible for the deaths. And, we have sure knowledge that the black patrons and black community blame whites for this. And, as you may notice, I'm all out of patience when it comes to blacks trashing our civilization and then blaming whites for the resulting problems.
Because those died, America is a better place, pragmatically speaking.
2003-02-21 04:47 | User Profile
No, I wasn't kidding.
I want to see White Civilization restored. But that doesn't mean I want us to go back to living in caves and painting ourselves blue.
The other week there was an item here about some 7-year-old Negro boy who was starved, beaten and burned to death by, I dunno, an aunt or something. Naturally, the "community leaders" blamed The System, ie, white welfare caseworkers who Should Have Done Something. Typical ludicrous buck-passing, endemic to a people so comfortable, so at ease with their own self-inflicted degradation they can't even take care of their own young - something coyotes and field mice manage to do instinctively, but is beyond them. I don't have a problem saying that point-blank. What I couldn't do was laugh and hoot and holler at the little broken body in the coffin -"scratch one crack dealer to be!"
Similarly, I don't know a single incriminating thing about those trampled people in that club. I'm sure there were a few warrant-jumpers and dope-dealers in the crowd, though. But you know what? They're dead now. I think their particular debt to society has been paid. But I'm equally sure there were a lot of perfectly innocent people among the casualties, too: there always are. And I don't hate negros enough to want to become one myself, which is what chortling at a charnel house always turns you into.
Just before Xmas in NY, a pregnant Dominican woman and her kids were crossing the street in front of their house. A drunk off-duty cop, heading home after hammering down slow gin fizzes for six hours at a local titty bar, jumped a red light and plowed into them at high speed, killing them all. The husband came home from work to find his wife, his kids and his unborn kid were all dead. But, hey, Dominicans deal drugs and cash welfare checks. So should I have been celebrating that story? Four more for our side?
I mean, are we white, or are we just pale negros?
2003-02-21 07:09 | User Profile
In their attempts to get people to to support their "War On Terror" the Bushies have worked hard to create feelings of fear and insecurity in the populace. Now somebody lets off some pepper spray in a night club, one person starts to run, and all of a sudden the same thought comes up in everyone's mind - "OMG, it's a poison gas attack!".
"Seal up your doors and windows! Terrorists could attack anyplace and anytime! Code Yellow! No, Orange!!"
Twenty-one people die in the stampede.
I wonder if CNN will make the connection.
2003-02-21 07:47 | User Profile
**Just before Xmas in NY, a pregnant Dominican woman and her kids were crossing the street in front of their house. A drunk off-duty cop, heading home after hammering down slow gin fizzes for six hours at a local titty bar, jumped a red light and plowed into them at high speed, killing them all. The husband came home from work to find his wife, his kids and his unborn kid were all dead. But, hey, Dominicans deal drugs and cash welfare checks. So should I have been celebrating that story? Four more for our side?
I mean, are we white, or are we just pale negros? **
Good for you, man.
I'm white, Christian and I speak English. I'm the heir of the greatness of the English Common Law. I'm the spiritual decendant of Edmund Burke and the Founders. I cling to their nobility and pray that I can be made worthy of it.
There's nothing quite so ignoble as sneering at the misfortunes of others, especially those of one's inferiors. I cringe whenever I see it among WN's. We're supposed to be the elite vanguard of our nation, after all. But this sort of thing smells of the rabble. I have nothing to do with it.
Walter
2003-02-21 08:45 | User Profile
One point [and thanks, Walter]:
**And I don't hate negros enough to want to become one myself, which is what chortling at a charnel house always turns you into.
I mean, are we white, or are we just pale negros? **
I suppose, in keeping with our new talk-nice policy, my original text...which used the N-word, and not 'negro'....was changed.
I deliberately used the N-word there for specific effect. (And I carefully bowdlerized the spelling with **'s so as not to violate language rules or give offense.)
Changing it back to 'negro', ironically, makes these sentences truly offensive....which was not my intent.
You can certainly be a negro and be a decent human being. You don't see it often these days,given the dominant culture, but it's certainly possible.
It's not possible if you're a ni- uhh, an N-word.
I don't know if this selective censorship is going to work if it's going to presume the typical OD lurker is a ten-year-old who's not bright enough to differentiate between a slur, and a slur used for pointed effect; and who needs to be protected from himself.
2003-02-21 12:43 | User Profile
**Could the same thing happen to Whites?ÃÂ Give me an example and I'll consider it.ÃÂ **
Sadly, no sooner said than done; one cameramen filming the show said as the flames engulfed the back of the stage, many hoisted their beers as if to say, "Cool show!" Now can we table this ridiculous argument?
WEST WARWICK, R.I. (Feb. 21) - A Rhode Island nightclub erupted into flames during a pyrotechnics display at a rock concert, killing at least 39 people and injuring more than 150 as mobs of concertgoers frantically rushed to escape the raging fire.
At least 39 were confirmed dead, West Warwick Fire Chief Charles Hall said Friday morning. The number was climbing rapidly as firefighters sifted through the rubble, said West Warwick Town Manager Wolfgang Bauer.
''I think it will take a good amount of time before the building can be thoroughly searched and a definite number can be estimated,'' Bauer said, adding that as many as five or 10 more people could be added to the death toll.
The blaze broke out at about 11 p.m. during the first song of a Great White concert at The Station in West Warwick, about 15 miles southwest of Providence. A fireworks display that was part of the show apparently ignited a substance in the ceiling, and flames quickly engulfed the club.
Hours later, only a blackened shell of the one-story building was left.
''The place went up within a matter of two minutes,'' witness John Kudryk said.
The fire came just four days after 21 people were killed and more than 50 injured during a stampede in a Chicago nightclub that began when a security guard used pepper spray to break up a fight.
Fire Capt. Russell McGillivray said many of the victims were found in the front door area after apparently becoming trapped trying to escape the fast-spreading flames.
More than 160 people were taken to area hospitals including Rhode Island Hospital in Providence and Kent County Memorial Hospital in nearby Warwick, said Bauer.
Firefighters worked into the morning Friday to pull charred bodies from the building as onlookers watched - worried about missing friends.
''They were completely burned. They had pieces of flesh falling off them,'' said Michelle Craine of West Warwick, who was waiting to hear about a friend who was missing. ''It was the worst thing I've ever seen.''
Paul Vanner, the club's sound technician and stage manager, said one person from the band was missing. It was not immediately known how many people attended the concert, however, one witness told The Providence Journal that about 300 people had been inside.
Chaos erupted moments after the fire started. Witnesses said dozens of people dashed toward the door, and some of those who escaped were later seen staggering into a triage center. Rescuers carried dozens of people on stretchers.
Hundreds of firefighters and police from across the region and dozens of ambulances were on the scene. Rescuers were pulling badly injured victims from the fire as ladder trucks poured water over the flaming skeleton of the building.
''It was calm at first, everyone thought it was part of the act,'' said John DiMeo, who was sitting at the bar near the front door when the fire started. ''It happened so fast.''
Jack Russell, the lead singer of Great White, told WJAR-TV he checked with the club's manager before the show and the band's use of pyrotechnics was approved. He said he felt the heat of the flames while on stage.
''This place went up like the Fourth of July,'' he said.
At a news conference, Bauer said an investigation was under way to see if the club had a license for fireworks.
''Something went off with a lot of heat and caused some material, whatever was on the ceiling or in the vicinity, to go off,'' he said. ''And I assume there was smoke, dense smoke somebody told me, and fire.''
Rhode Island Gov. Don Carcieri, who was in Stuart, Fla., to attend a governors' conference, said he planned to return to the state Friday morning.
''Our hearts go out to all of them. Our hearts and prayers to all of the families that have been impacted by this. ... There's no words to describe,'' Carcieri said. ''This is a terrible tragedy. It should not have occurred. Why it occurred is one of the questions that needs to be answered.''
Great White is a heavy metal band whose hits include ''Once Bitten, Twice Shy'' and ''Rock Me.'' The band emerged in the Los Angeles metal scene of the late 1980s, selling 6 million albums and earning a Grammy nomination in 1990.
They continued to tour and make albums in recent years, maintaining a strong allegiance of fans from their glory days of the 1980s.
AP-NY-02-21-03 0718EST
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2003-02-21 13:47 | User Profile
I just heard of the deaths from fire at the Rhode Island rock club. I'm stunned right now by the timing of this incident. Accidents happen, but this one.....I dunno.
2003-02-21 16:35 | User Profile
Well, I did say, "give me an example and I'll consider it." Thinking someone might offer the Altamont riot of 1969. And thinking that though it might have been overlooked, the riot began when a black man was spotted waving a gun in the audience, sparking a Hell's Angels response that led to mayhem.
Of course stampedes can happen to Whites. That doesn't make me happy. And no, I don't celebrate the natural tragedies suffered by other races. But I'll stick to my original argument that this particular stampede was in fact racial in nature, for the reasons I described. To clarify my position, I reserve my anger for 1) natural negro behavior that affects me and my kind personally and 2) the social response to the consequences of the behavior. In the cases of the neglected/dead black/Hispanic children Il Ragno so aptly describes, that anger reservation fairly bubbles over for me. Or how about this one: the case in Baltimore where the black woman was shot and killed by black drug dealers in retaliation for her having reported them, which was followed by the black "leaders" assigning angry blame to... the police and the mayor, for "creating an environment" (i.e., vigorous law enforcement) where such a thing could happen. I read quote after quote from angry black person about how "they" (Whitey) caused all this. Like the NYPD stand-down at the Puerto Rican parade, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. We patrol the parade, we're racist. We don't, and some chicas get groped, we're racist. We pop popcorn in New Jersey while nigras die of AIDS in Africa, we're racist. You don't have to be a WN to see the absurdity of all that --- even the O'Reilly/Limbaugh devotees can see it for what it is. Regrettably, even many racially conscious Whites (and I don't entirely exclude myself) retain their deeply-burned instinct to sniff out counter-examples of this phenomenon or that to "prove" that races are, at the most fundamental level, excluding intelligence and criminal inclination, the same. I think I know what prompts it: the red-faced shame at getting caught accusing others of stuff you and yours are guilty of. Throwing stones and glass houses and all that. But closer examination always reveals cracks in the counter-example. Yet they're served up, reflexively, as a way to divert attention from the real fundamental, which is racial difference profound enough to make the multiracial society unworkable. I'm sure Il won't disagree with me on that last point.
So I'll agree that grinning glee about, ah, non-White homo sapien suffering tends to debase us. It doesn't feel good or natural for me to engage in it. On the other hand, I can't quite bring myself to well up with big moist tears about such stuff after experiencing what I experience daily riding big city public transportation, reading what I read in the mainstream press, and so on. I try to keep my anger my righteous, but if a little slips over to where it ideally should not, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. We hold ourselves to high moral standards and I think it's commendable. Thing is, nobody else is. I'm not saying I've got the impermeable solution to this moral dilemma, but them's my thoughts.
2003-02-21 17:14 | User Profile
I don't celebrate the deaths of anyone, regardless of race. But, pragmatically speaking, how many innocent people are at a no-whites-allowed club ran by Jesse Jackson's friend? The black population is very slim on innocent people to begin with.
The club at Road Island is not comparable. The blacks stampeded to get away from a little harmless pepper spray. The people at the rock concert would have died if they didn't get out. It was probably less than half a minute between people realizing how deadly the situation was and the whole building being filled with toxic smoke. Probably the vast majority of people killed were killed by smoke, not by a stampede.
"People were trying to help others and people were smashing out windows, and people were pulling on people and nobody cared how many cuts they got, nobody cared about the bruises or the burns," Butler said. "They just wanted out of the building."
2003-02-21 19:03 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Feb 17 2003, 14:17 ** Jay: "LOL?" Really? "That's hilarious?" No, that's depraved. Tell me again about that wholesome"Christian faith" of yours..... **
Yes, Il Ragno - it was hilarious that the Reverend Jackson showed up for the aftermath.
I would never say that death & destruction was funny, and did not do so here, either. You need to take a valium, chill out, and then dust up on your reading comprehension.
-Jay
2003-02-21 21:30 | User Profile
The death toll has risen to 86 in RI. Good post Happy Hacker, and I agree, this Rhode Island accident is much different from the Chicago incident. Anyway as an ex-metalhead myself, I remember seeing Great White in '87 at The Ritz, NYC. I've actually seen just about every hard rock band from that era and onwards. It's sad that these bands who once played to 5,000 up to 20,000 people a show, nowadays play to 200-300(especially when you kill your audience). Now I suspect that those 80's metal acts still doing "shack" tours will lose their livelihoods if the FedGov decides no more rock n rollin' for the over 30 crowd! Maybe not the worst thing in the world... ;)
N.J. Club Owner Says Band Used Fireworks Without Permission
Friday, February 21, 2003
NEW YORK ââ¬â The heavy-metal band Great White included a fireworks show without management's permission when it performed at a legendary New Jersey nightclub last week, the New Jersey club's owner said Friday. Domenic Santana of the Stone Pony club in Asbury Park, N.J., said his club manager was shocked when the pyrotechnics began during Great White's performance. "I was in the back and I heard on the radio, 'What the hell is going on?'" he said. "It's a house rule. No fireworks in our club because the ceiling is too low," Santana told Fox News. "There is no way we would have allowed this." The same band was beginning its performance Thursday night at The Station in West Warwick, R.I., when the pyrotechnics ignited a fire in the ceiling. At least 85 people have been confirmed dead in the wake of the blaze that consumed the club, which did not have a pyrotechnics license.
On Friday, Great White's lead singer, Jack Russell, said he had no idea that the Rhode Island club wasn't licensed for fireworks and said the club owners had given the group's manager permission to use the display.
"We never do anything without asking for permission first," Russell said.
But the owners of The Station said the band never asked for permission.
Santana said the Stone Pony staff challenged Great White's manager when the fireworks started during last week's performance, but they allowed the show to continue because they feared an angry reaction from the crowd if they had stopped it.
The crowd was apparently unaware that the pyrotechnics were used without permission from the club, Santana said.
The Stone Pony is known around the world as the place where Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi and a number of other New Jersey-based rockers first made their name.
2003-02-22 02:08 | User Profile
Santana said the Stone Pony staff challenged Great White's manager when the fireworks started during last week's performance, but they allowed the show to continue because they feared an angry reaction from the crowd if they had stopped it.
Looks like - for once - the venue might stand half a chance at vindication when the now-circling lawyers inevitably descend to feed.
No offense to any 80s metal fans in the house, but it is surreal that all of this death & horror could follow a Great White performance. And it's hard to believe any band on a small-club tour would even HAVE flashpots and pyro gear in their act....
Any oldtimers who still have their "Smoke on the Water" sheet music & tablature must be struck by the dark irony of this today.
2005-08-18 21:59 | User Profile
I am a Training Officer for an Ambulance Corps in NY. I am looking for video footage or at least still photos of the Epitome E2 stampede in Chicago on Feb 17, 2003. I understand that with the litigation pending that it is no longer available online, but someone must have copies of it somewhere. Anyone able to help me out?
Tom