← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Okiereddust
Thread ID: 4942 | Posts: 6 | Started: 2003-02-11
2003-02-11 23:45 | User Profile
President Bush yesterday told a national gathering of religious broadcasters in Nashville, Tenn., that white suburban churches have an "obligation" to help their black urban counterparts.
"It has been said that 11 a.m. on Sunday is the most segregated hour in America," Mr. Bush said. "Suburban churches are often just a short drive away from brothers and sisters who are facing great need and doing God's work.
"There is an opportunity here to end artificial divisions and join together in fellowship and service," he added. "There's also an obligation."
The remarks were the latest in a series of increasingly religious speeches by the president as he moves closer to war with Iraq, which could begin as soon as this month.
The growing emphasis on religious discourse has gone largely unchallenged by Democrats and the press. That is a major change from a few years ago, when Mr. Bush was widely criticized for mentioning Jesus Christ as his favorite philosopher in a debate during the presidential campaign.
Although Mr. Bush is a born-again Christian who has been deeply religious for years, the president has been framing the conflict in increasingly religious terms as war with Iraq has looked increasingly imminent in recent days.
"In this hour of our country's history, we stand in the need of prayer," he said Thursday at the National Prayer Breakfast. "We pray for wisdom to know and do what is right."
Mr. Bush worked National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice into the prayer program, noting that her father was a minister. He even made a religious reference to CIA Director George J. Tenet and Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman ââ¬â both of whom also participated in the breakfast.
"It is fitting that in the midst of tough times that these two leaders are sharing with Scripture and prayer with the country," the president remarked.
The religious references are aimed in part at countering anti-war messages from groups affiliated with organized religions. A coalition of such groups, known as Win Without War, recently produced a TV ad saying war against Iraq "violates God's law and the teachings of Jesus Christ."
The coalition's director, former Democratic Rep. Tom Andrews, had those words uttered by a bishop from the Methodist Church to which Mr. Bush belongs. Win Without War has also produced an ad, echoing the famous 1964 "Daisy" commercial, suggesting that the president's policy in Iraq would lead to nuclear war.
"There are many people in a variety of religions who are going to have different thoughts about how to keep the peace and whether or not to go to war with Saddam Hussein," White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said. "The president will respect their thoughts, and he will act as he sees fit as commander in chief to protect the country."
A reporter asked Mr. Fleischer how the president reconciles "his militarism with Jesus' pacifism."
"The decisions that the president makes about war and peace and about whether or not force needs to be used in Iraq are based on the president's judgments as a secular leader about what is necessary to protect this country," Mr. Fleischer said.
"The president is a deeply religious man," he added. "But these are decisions that the president will make based on intelligence reports, based on information that he is aware of on how to protect our country from potential attack."
Yet Mr. Bush has publicly made no distinction between his secular and religious sides. If anything, he presents them as one and the same.
"The comment I hear the most from our fellow citizens, regardless of their political party or philosophy, is: Mr. President, I pray for you and your family," he said at the prayer breakfast. "I turn to them without hesitation and say: It is the greatest gift you can give anybody, is to pray on their behalf.
"I especially feel that because I believe in prayer," he added. "I pray. I pray for strength. I pray for guidance. I pray for forgiveness. And I pray to offer my thanks for a kind and generous almighty God.
[url=http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030211-84172982.htm]Washington Times [/url]
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_philosophy&Number=440672&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=1&vc=1&t=-1]Liberty Forum[/url]
2003-02-12 03:33 | User Profile
Sunday is more segregated because churches aren't forced to pay blacks to attend, as businesses are.
You can go to most any white church all your life and never hear one thing that is really anti-black (but, liberal white churches frequently bash whites). But, step into any black church and it's all about race. Blacks are the racist church/mosque goers. They don't want to go to white churches and they don't want whites to go to their churches. If Bush weren't a slave to political correctness, he would have said that black churches are obligated to reach out and that blacks shouldn't drive whites away.
2003-02-12 05:58 | User Profile
Originally posted by Happy Hacker@Feb 12 2003, 03:33 Sunday is more segregated because churches aren't forced to pay blacks to attend, as businesses are.
This is pretty much the standard line you'll hear in any liberal college sociology class. As you note its bogus, but typicaly moderate/liberal Republicans like Bush basically buy into it completely.
Blacks are the racist church/mosque goers. They don't want to go to white churches and they don't want whites to go to their churches. If Bush weren't a slave to political correctness, he would have said that black churches are obligated to reach out and that blacks shouldn't drive whites away.
Yes, I have had similar experiences to what you have, about white people goingto black churches. It varies, but blacks always view the token whites with definite interest.
2003-02-12 15:23 | User Profile
Bush has an obligation to shut his freakin' mouth.
2003-02-12 16:04 | User Profile
Civil War diarist Mary Chestnut wrote that she had given up as hopeless her attempt to teach theology to her all black Sunday school class.
All they were interested in was singing, she concluded.
And I believe she summed up black churchgoers pretty nicely.
Many years ago I was an usher at the Baltimore arena. Several times a year prominent black churches would rent the arena for their services cum gospel music fests.
There was no theology preached therein unless you call the worship of material possessions theology. At some point in the proceedings the wife of the Reverend would make her grand entrance on stage wearing a fur coat and dripping with diamonds and gold. She would then turn and spin like a fashion model while the congregation applauded wildly. What would always follow would be a short speech in which Mrs Reverand exhorted the gathering to emulate her by acquiring expensive clothes and jewelry.
The rest was all gospel singing. And watching it, it was obvious where Motown and the so called musical genius Berry Gordon had gotten all his performers not to mention melodies. Sam Cooke to Aretha Franklin and Marvin Gaye - all came out of the black churches. And they still are.
2003-02-21 04:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by eric von zipper@Feb 12 2003, 11:04 Civil War diarist Mary Chestnut wrote that she had given up as hopeless her attempt to teach theology to her all black Sunday school class.
My church used to own slaves. As a church comprised mostly of Germans they had not had a history of dealing with blacks. In the beginning the black slaves worshipped alongside the whites. As the years rolled by the natural differences in the races led to seperate services for the blacks, though black marriages and baptisms were attended by whites. Eventually they built the blacks their own church which interestingly was built during the War Between the States. With the end of slavery the ties between the white church and black church slowly withered. The whites no longer had a strong enough personal interest in the blacks to overcome their natural inclinations which ours are so at odds with, and the blacks had less need to placate the whites. For a while whites from the main church would still try to help the blacks encountering the usual resistance to improvement. Eventually the black church was moved into the black part of town.
There was another church in our demonination which was lost to the black neighborhood. As the black area of town began to overtake the neighborhood the church was in the longtime residents moved out. Eventually most of the membership no longer lived in the neighborhood. They decided to relocate the church. Now the church is on a street known for prosititution and crack dealing. In a bit of irony the beatiful old church now bears the name Canaan Baptist.