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Thread ID: 4819 | Posts: 9 | Started: 2003-02-06
2003-02-06 03:29 | User Profile
An index of catholicism's decline Kenneth C. Jones's new Book
"Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II."
by Kenneth C. Jones
BOSTON. In a new book on the state of the Catholic Church by US author Kenneth C. Jones, grim predictions made by traditionalists in the wake of Vatican II have been borne out. In the United States alone, the number of priests has fallen from 58 000 to 45 000 since 1965, - with only 31 000 estimated to be left by 2020, of whom over half would be over 70. New ordinations have dropped from 1575 to 450 in 2002, - while there has been a 90% decline in the number of seminarians over the same period. Nearly all parishes had a priest before Vatican II, but about 3000 parishes are without a priest now. The number of nuns has gone down from 180 000 in 1965 to just 75 000 in 2002, - whose average age is 68. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. Though the official number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the Catholic belief and devotion has taken a dive. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002. And, last but not least, while a 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays, a recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend. According to observers, the decline in religious life is not limited to the Catholic Church, and that the average modern man living in the lap of luxury has drifted away on a purely materialistic current.
An index of catholicism's decline
by Pat Buchanan
As the Watergate scandal of 1973-1974 diverted attention from the far greater tragedy unfolding in Southeast Asia, so, too, the scandal of predator-priests now afflicting the Catholic Church may be covering up a far greater calamity.
Thirty-seven years after the end of the only church council of the 20th century, the jury has come in with its verdict: Vatican II appears to have been an unrelieved disaster for Roman Catholicism.
Liars may figure, but figures do not lie. Kenneth C. Jones of St. Louis has pulled together a slim volume of statistics he has titled Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II.
His findings make prophets of Catholic traditionalists who warned that Vatican II would prove a blunder of historic dimensions, and those same findings expose as foolish and naive those who believed a council could reconcile Catholicism and modernity. When Pope John XXIII threw open the windows of the church, all the poisonous vapors of modernity entered, along with the Devil himself.
Here are Jones's grim statistics of Catholicism's decline:
-- Priests. While the number of priests in the United States more than doubled to 58,000, between 1930 and 1965, since then that number has fallen to 45,000. By 2020, there will be only 31,000 priests left, and more than half of these priests will be over 70.
-- Ordinations. In 1965, 1,575 new priests were ordained in the United States. In 2002, the number was 450. In 1965, only 1 percent of U.S. parishes were without a priest. Today, there are 3,000 priestless parishes, 15 percent of all U.S. parishes.
-- Seminarians. Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700, a decline of over 90 percent. Two-thirds of the 600 seminaries that were operating in 1965 have now closed.
-- Sisters. In 1965, there were 180,000 Catholic nuns. By 2002, that had fallen to 75,000 and the average age of a Catholic nun is today 68. In 1965, there were 104,000 teaching nuns. Today, there are 8,200, a decline of 94 percent since the end of Vatican II.
-- Religious Orders. For religious orders in America, the end is in sight. In 1965, 3,559 young men were studying to become Jesuit priests. In 2000, the figure was 389. With the Christian Brothers, the situation is even more dire. Their number has shrunk by two-thirds, with the number of seminarians falling 99 percent. In 1965, there were 912 seminarians in the Christian Brothers. In 2000, there were only seven.
The number of young men studying to become Franciscan and Redemptorist priests fell from 3,379 in 1965 to 84 in 2000.
-- Catholic schools. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. Parochial schools suffered an even greater decline. Some 4,000 have disappeared, and the number of pupils attending has fallen below 2 million -- from 4.5 million.
Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.
-- Catholic Marriage. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002.
-- Attendance at Mass. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays. A recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend.
Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception. Fifty-three percent believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic. Sixty-five percent believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry. Seventy-seven percent believe one can be a good Catholic without going to mass on Sundays. By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.
At the opening of Vatican II, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible and missals, abandoning the old traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world. And their legacy?
Four decades of devastation wrought upon the church, and the final disgrace of a hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church.
Through the papacy of Pius XII, the church resisted the clamor to accommodate itself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind. Since Vatican II, the church has sought to meet the world halfway.
Jones' statistics tell us the price of appeasement.
?2002 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
url: [url=http://www.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/pb20021211.shtml]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/patbuch...b20021211.shtml[/url]
2003-02-09 05:10 | User Profile
A very informative article. I find it unbelievable that a "reform" was needed for the tenets of a religion such as Catholicism. However, when I think how susceptible Whites and the Western World were to modern ideals and Jewish influence, it seems almost inevitable this would occur.
2003-02-09 05:53 | User Profile
His Holiness Pope Benedict XIV Encyclical on Judaism in Poland June 14, 1751
. . .Because the Jews control businesses selling liquor and even wine, they are therefore allowed to supervise the collection of public revenues. They have also gained control of inns, bankrupt estates, villages and public land by means of which they have subjugated poor Christian farmers. The Jews are cruel taskmasters, not only working the farmers harshly and forcing them to carry excessive loads, but also whipping them for punishment. So it has come about that those poor farmers are the subjects of the Jews, submissive to their will and power. Furthermore, although the power to punish lies with the Christian official, he must comply with the commands of the Jews and inflict the punishments they desire. If he doesn't, he would lose his post. Therefore the tyrannical orders of the Jews have to be carried out.
In addition to the harm done to Christians in these regards, other unreasonable matters can result in even greater loss and danger. The most serious is that some households of the great have employed a Jew as "Superintendent-of-the-Household"; in this capacity, they not only administer domestic and economic matters, but they also ceaselessly exhibit and flaunt authority over the Christians they are living with. . .
2003-02-09 06:17 | User Profile
Originally posted by Robbie@Feb 9 2003, 05:10 A very informative article. I find it unbelievable that a "reform" was needed for the tenets of a religion such as Catholicism. However, when I think how susceptible Whites and the Western World were to modern ideals and Jewish influence, it seems almost inevitable this would occur.
One has to be a keen student of popular culture and a close student of the Catholic Church to really understand why the significance of Vatican II in and on the Catholic Church. This Protestant doesn't have a real feel for Catholics Church politics. But the basic spirit seems to be an accomodation to the spirit of modernistic relativism whose mature fruits we now recognize as postmodernism and multiculturalism, and which as astute students of the culture wars such as James Davison Hunter recognize, cuts across all denominational lines.
2003-02-09 23:40 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Feb 9 2003, 06:17 ** One has to be a keen student of popular culture and a close student of the Catholic Church to really understand why the significance of Vatican II in and on the Catholic Church. **
I used to read a traditional Catholic newsletter called "The Remnant" which often talked about popular culture and its relation to post-Vatican II Catholicism, but what really grated on me was that they hardly ever went into specifics. They always made it seem as if any Vatican II concoction was some kind of Lollapalooza event without seeing it from a "cinema-verite" lens, especially when it dealt with young Catholics. Considering they are older than myself, I think this type of issue would be better suited for someone of that age group who knows about it. If I were a writer for that publication I think I'd be too revealing for their readers. I tend to think they're satisfied with what they already read.
2003-02-10 04:47 | User Profile
Interesting Robbie. Could you expand and clarify a little of what you said though about a "cinema-verite" lens? I'm not sure I really understand.
2003-02-10 05:51 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Feb 9 2003, 00:17 ** > Originally posted by Robbie@Feb 9 2003, 05:10 A very informative article.ÃÂ I find it unbelievable that a "reform" was needed for the tenets of a religion such as Catholicism.ÃÂ However, when I think how susceptible Whites and the Western World were to modern ideals and Jewish influence, it seems almost inevitable this would occur.
One has to be a keen student of popular culture and a close student of the Catholic Church to really understand why the significance of Vatican II in and on the Catholic Church. This Protestant doesn't have a real feel for Catholics Church politics. But the basic spirit seems to be an accomodation to the spirit of modernistic relativism whose mature fruits we now recognize as postmodernism and multiculturalism, and which as astute students of the culture wars such as James Davison Hunter recognize, cuts across all denominational lines. **
Okiered: Do you know Robert Hutchison "Their Kingdom Come"? Really an eye-popper about Opus Dei. He lived with them four years, and wrote the definitive sketchof what happened in Reagan years in Poland -- how priest supplied with CIA equipment acted as spies to bring down the communist government there ... ...how they were connected to Roberto Calvi and the Italy P2 death squad lodge... ...how the "worK" of Josemaria Escriva Belaguer has upset the applecart in re Vatican politics, will probably pick the next Pope (the guy from Peru, where one major Nazi rat line douched after WWII) ...much, much more -- including the Spain, Italy, Poland, Croat etc. connection
One has to assume they are behind the super-spy Rober Philip Hanssen, who was a member; Louis Freeh; propably Jedge Scalia, who belonged to their "church".
Then, of course, there was Gary Wills' "Structures of Deceit". He sems to have virtually disappeared after millenium's turn. Wonder why.
It is very, very sad that they stoop to what they do, but how could it be different? If you don't let go when your time is past, you have to strap it on. That is what is so liberating about the spirit of the New world, which they had to destroy, just like the liberal tradition, in order to do unto us what Wojtyla and col. did to the Poles (temporarily -- sanity returns, if you point the guns in the other direction).
Having nothing positive and new of their own to contribute, they attack you by attacking who you are opposed to, and whipping it up to hate. Attacking you by attacking Jews. Attacking you by attacking blacks. Attacking you by attacking liberals. Attacking you by attacking female equality (they are OK if they know their place). Attacking you by attacking anyone whose skin isn't white. Then, just attacking you. What else can they do? Admit the Pope is a fraud?
"It is easy to get to know Opus Dei. It works in broad daylight in all countries, with he full juridical recognition of the civil and ecclesiastical authorities. The names of its directors are well known. Anyone who wants information can obtain it without difficulty." Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, 7 January, l966 (d. l975)
"Hiding in the open." Just like Muhammed and Malvo.
Then, the terrible, shameful pedophile priest scandal, known about since the 60's as coming on, but denied -- "dumped" into the nutty MIchael Jackson. "Not us! Not us! -- its those black people that are so immoral!", as if to say. I guess Catholic Charities rounds up some intelligent ones now and then, or at least some that are functionally literate and good workers.
2003-02-11 14:55 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Feb 10 2003, 04:47 ** Could you expand and clarify a little of what you said though about a "cinema-verite" lens? I'm not sure I really understand. **
What I meant by "cinema-verite lens" is that the writers only write about something that might have been prevalent at that time and place, but didn't represent the entire spectrum at that time. I wouldn't be surprised if they also stretch the truth, so to speak, to give the readers the idea that something terrible is going on, when it really isn't that way.
I'll give you an example. A few writers in "The Remnant" described a typical Catholic Mass as having "liturgical dancers", "guitar-playing 'rock' masses", "altar girls" and other outlandish concoctions. I can tell you from my own experiences at Mass that, with the exception of a single "altar girl", these creations were non-existent, especially with the "dancers". I never saw them at Mass, and as for guitar/folk sounds, I never heard them. In other words, the writers want you to think that Masses are invitations to meet the Antichrist, but I never experienced that. At least I was seeing Mass through a "cinema-verite" lens.
2003-02-11 15:27 | User Profile
"-- how priest supplied with CIA equipment acted as spies to bring down the communist government there ...[/CODE]
Aw, come on, the Church's role in Poland was one of JP II's great moments. The "equipment" was probably freakin PCs, fer Chrissakes.
And why must we "assume" the church had anything to do with Hanssen? I guess if he were in the Elks or the Rotarians we would have to "assume" the Elks were up to something nefarious on Karaoke Night. What is REALLY going on in the kitchen on AYCE chicken dumpling night anyway? They aren't fooling Wombat! No sirree! We'll get to the bottom of this even if we have to infiltrate the women's auxialiary.
Hanssen was in it for the freakin money. It's that simple.
He's no Kim Philby. It was all greed.
The Pope can't depend on the Jesuits for anything except heresy and protecting faggots. They are to all intents and purposes in open rebellion against him and should simply be put out of business. But he doen't have the stomach for it. So he uses Opus Dei instead.
Vatican II was a mistake in my opinion in that it was the Church's open confession of weakness. Of wanting to be relevant. Of pandering to the noncommitted Catholic.
It is the same thinking that has ruined mainline protestantism especially the much to be despised Episcopalians with their incessant and pitiable need to be accepted as the intellectual equals of their athiest enemies.
You do not gain religious adherents by compromising on principles. You gain religious adherents by refusing to compromise. The church knew this 400 years ago but lost it somewhere along the way. They didn't combat Luther by de emphasizing transubstantiation. They combatted him and stemmed the reformationist tide by EMPHASIZING transubstantiation and other Catholic doctrines that were under furious assault.
Same thing with woman priests, faggot priests, married priests, abortion. No compromise! Let the Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopals compromise.
See where it's got them.