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Thread ID: 481 | Posts: 61 | Started: 2002-04-15

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Ed Toner [OP]

2002-04-15 14:06 | User Profile

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Accountability.html Sex, Equality, And Kidding Ourselves "Take Away Reason And Accountability...."

Men of today's older generation grew up in the chivalric miasma of their time, which held that women were morally superior to men, and that civilized men protected women against any available vicissitude. A corollary was that women needed protecting. So common has this understanding been throughout history that one may suspect it of being based in ancient instinct: In a less hospitable world, if men didn't protect women, something disagreeable would eat them, and then there would be no more people. So men did. And do.

Instincts have consequences, particularly when the circumstances requiring them cease to exist.

Because women were until recently subordinate, and in large part played the role of gentility assigned to them, men didn't recognize that they could be dangerous, selfish, or sometimes outright vipers. They were no worse than men, but neither were they better. Men believed, as did women, that women were tender creatures, caring, kind, and suited to be mothers. Males deferred to women in many things, which didn't matter because the things women wanted were not important.

When women came into a degree of power, it turned out that they were as immoral, or amoral, as men, probably more self-centered, and out for what they could get. Not all were, of course, as neither were all men, but suddenly this became the central current. This too followed lines of instinctual plausibility: Women took care of children and themselves, and men took care of women. It made sense that they should be self-centered.

These newly empowered women knew, as women have always known, how to wield charm, and they quickly learned to enjoy power. The men of the old school didn't notice in time. They deferred, and they were blind-sided. They gave gentlemanly agreement to one-sided laws hostile to men.

Political deference became a pattern. It remains a pattern. It probably springs in part from the male's instinctive recognition that, by giving women what they want, he gets laid. Between individuals this worked tolerably well, but less so when applied to abstract groups.

When women said they wanted protection against dead-beat dads, the old school fell for it. They were attuned to saving maidens and the sheltering from life's storms of white Christian motherhood. "Dead-beat dads" was of course that sure-fire political winner -- an alliterative slogan of few words that embodied a conclusion but no analysis. So sure were men that women were the kinder gentler sex that they never bothered to look at the statistics on abuse of children, or the track records of the sexes in raising children.

The romantic elderly male believed -- believes -- that women were the natural proprietors of the young. This led to laws virtually denying a divorced father's interest in his children, though not the requirement that he pay for their upkeep. The pattern holds today. Male judges in family law defer to women, almost any women no matter how unfit, and female judges side with their own. The demonstrable fact that women can and do abuse and neglect children, that a female executive clawing her way up the hierarchy may have the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake, that children need their fathers -- all of this has been forgotten.

The reflexive deference continued. Feminists wanted congress to pass a vast program of funding for every left-wing cause that incited enthusiasm in the sterile nests of NOW. They called it the Violence Against Women Act, and men deferentially gave it to them. Of course to vote against it, no matter what it actually said -- and almost no one knew -- would have been to seem to favor violence against women. A law to exterminate orphans, if called the Domestic Violence Prevention Act, would pass without demur.

There followed yet more male deference to female desires. When women wanted to go into the military to have babies, or a Soldier Experience, men couldn't bring themselves to say no.

When the women couldn't perform as soldiers, men graciously lowered standards so they could appear to. It was the equivalent of helping a woman over a log in the park, the legal and institutional parallel of murmuring, "Don't worry your pretty little head about a thing."

On and on it went. The aggregate effect has been that women have gained real power, while (or by) managing in large part to continue to exact deference and, crucially, to avoid the accountability that should come with power. A minor example is women who want the preferential treatment that women now enjoy, and yet expect men to pay for their dates. In today's circumstances, this is simple parasitism.

Today men are accountable for their behavior. Women are not. The lack of accountability, seldom clearly recognized, is the bedrock of much of today's feminist misbehavior, influence, and politics. Its pervasiveness is worth pondering.

A man who sires children and leaves is called a dead-beat dad, and persecuted. A woman who has seven children out of wedlock and no capacity to raise them is not a criminal, but a victim. He is accountable for his misbehavior, but she is not for hers. It is often thus.

Consider the female Army officer who complained that morning runs were demeaning to women. A man who thus sniveled would be disciplined, ridiculed, and perhaps thumped. Yet the Army fell over itself to apologize and investigate. Again, men are held accountable for their indiscipline, but women are not. Men expect to adapt themselves to the Army, but women expect the Army to adapt to them. And it does. The male instinct is to keep women happy.

Note that a woman who brings charges of sexual harassment against a man suffers no, or minor, consequences if the charges are found to be unfounded -- i.e., made up. A man who lied about a woman's misbehavior would be sacked. He is accountable. She isn't.

Yes, large numbers of women are responsible, competent, and agreeable. Few engage in the worst abuses, as for example the fabrication of sexual harassment. Yet they can do these things. A man cannot throw a fit and get his way. A woman can. Only a few need misbehave to poison the air and set society on edge. And the many profit by the misbehavior of the few.

People will do what they can get away with. Men assuredly will, and so are restrained by law. Women are not. Here is the root of much evil, for society, children, men and, yes, women.

(Posted with Fred's permission)


xmetalhead

2002-04-15 17:12 | User Profile

Great post Ed Toner. I've been a fan of Fred on Everything for quite some time now, and the guy is just great. I used to like his Cop's World reports alot, but I guess he's stopped writing those. Anyway, great piece by Fred as well as accurate.  I wonder why so many people just don't get it, ya know? Feminism is the worst of the worst of the worst, and once things start rolling downhill, it's almost impossible to get back to where it was. I'm not so optimistic about the future.


amundsen

2002-04-15 17:53 | User Profile

**Quote** (xmetalhead @ April 15 2002,14:12)
I'm not so optimistic about the future.** Nor am I.   Some astute observations: '...women, as a sex, are shrewd, resourceful, and acute; but the very fact that they are always concerned with imminent problems and that, in consequence, they are unaccustomed to dealing with the larger riddles of life, makes their mental attitude essentially petty. .... Women's constant thought is, not to lay down broad principles of right and wrong; not to place the whole world in harmony with some great scheme of justice; ...but to deceive, influence, sway and please men. Normally, their weakness makes masculine protection necessary to their existence and to the exercise of their overpowering maternal instinct, and so their whole effort is to obtain this protection in the easiest way possible. The net result is that feminine morality is a morality of opportunism and imminent expediency, and that the normal woman has no respect for, and scarcely a conception of abstract truth. Thus is proved a fact noted by Schopenhauer and many other observers: that a woman seldom manifests any true sense of justice or of honor.' AND 'We see about us that women are becoming more and more independent and self- sufficient and that, as individuals, they have less and less need to seek and retain the good will and protection of individual men, but we overlook the fact that this tendency is fast undermining the ancient theory that the family is a necessary and impeccable institution and that without it progress would be impossible. As a matter of fact, the idea of the family, as it exists today, is based entirely upon the idea of feminine helplessness. .... Wipe out your masculine defender, and your feminine parasite-haus-frau - and where is your family?' - H. L. Mencken Who wrote long before my time and I believe yours. --- ### van helsing *2002-04-16 00:13* | [User Profile](/od/user/48) women didnt win the sexual revolution, altho a bunch think they did. irresponsible males won, hands down. good men and children lost hands down. women laos lost, somewhat. --- ### Sertorius *2002-04-16 12:22* | [User Profile](/od/user/26) Ed, Ol` Fred tells it like it is. I have a close relative that made whoope one night with some girl he was dating. She didn`t tell him that she wanted to get pregnant. Anyway, she has not only been jacking him around the last 12 odd years, but she is doing it to another guy she set up. It looks like next year my relative will get his little girl and for her it will be a getaway from the rapidly third worldization of the area that she is living in. ================================== This column made me think about this. I wonder how many people remember when former Congress"woman" (sic) Pat Schroeder threw the tantrum during a meeting of the House Armed Service Committee when some stupid feminist inspire idiocy she sponsored was voted down. "The only reason you voted against my amendment is because I have a vagina!" Fred makes his case well. --- ### Avalanche *2002-12-18 02:31* | [User Profile](/od/user/243) Speaking as an enlightened/awakened FEMALE... (that means a far far right reactionary...) When I came to the South and married my anti-modernist/ante-modernist husband, who spent several years deprogramming me (having been raised in NYC by intellectual, lukewarmly Christian, parents), he and I would argue for hours about feminism and women's 'rights.' After much working it through, we came to the agreement that a) yes, feminism is a bad bad thing -- however B) women HAD NO CHOICE because men had dropped their responsibilities towards them. Where once men took on responsibility for a wife and family, and had the support of a community of responsible men who were supporting THEIR families... men were turned into (or accepted demotion into) economic cogs, and women had no choice but to find a way to support and care for themselves. Had men NOT dropped the ball, women would not have had to pick it up. If a woman has no way to feed her kids (or herself) by relying on her man, then she MUST fight for "equal rights" -- because she is now required to fulfill the man's job. *I* am more lucky than I can express -- having found a man who supports, guides, cares for, and protects me. But my sisters and my friends have not, and probably cannot. (Besides, they have been so tainted by feminism/liberalism that they'd probably spit on a "real" man...) --- ### xmetalhead *2002-12-18 13:53* | [User Profile](/od/user/80) > *Originally posted by Avalanche*@Dec 17 2002, 21:31 **Where once men took on responsibility for a wife and family, and had the support of a community of responsible men who were supporting THEIR families... **men were turned into (or accepted demotion into) economic cogs, and women had no choice but to find a way to support and care for themselves**. Had men NOT dropped the ball, women would not have had to pick it up. If a woman has no way to feed her kids (or herself) by relying on her man, then she MUST fight for "equal rights" -- because she is now required to fulfill the man's job. ** Avalanche, thanks for the women's perspective here on OD. We do need more awakened women in our movement.....actually that is the only way we are going to succeed; more women who discern the political and social issues like us men do. I'm not sure, however, if you know who our real enemy is. It is not women per se, but I did highlight from your quote, and I'd like to ask you your thoughts on WHY that happened? Who turned who into what? Was it natural? Why did men "drop the ball"? Anyway, your responses are most welcome and I hope you keep posting here!! --- ### Robbie *2002-12-18 15:14* | [User Profile](/od/user/69) Has anyone noticed that the Media has not mentioned anything about the 30th Anniversary of the passing of the "Equal Rights Amendment" and the 20th Anniversary of its failure in winning total ratification. Considering that Hollywood was perhaps the E.R.A.'s most visible spokesman, was it really true that the majority of the public didn't vote in favor of it?? But considering how the E.R.A. was a revised version of the Communist Manifesto, and it was more than just "sexual equality" (what everyone wanted you to think it was solely based on), we are seeing the fruits of the E.R.A. have already grown, and has been for years. Did anyone know that the E.R.A. supported marriage/adoption for homosexuals. That the "workers parties" and other Communist organizations were highly represented in the 1977 rally in Washington and throughout the "amendment" itself?? There was a link I recall seeing going to that discussed what was inside the closet of this "amendment" but have since forgotten about it. --- ### Avalanche *2002-12-19 03:31* | [User Profile](/od/user/243) xmetalhead: > ** Avalanche, thanks for the women's perspective .... actually that is the only way we are going to succeed; more women who discern the political and social issues like us men do.  ** Thank you xmetalhead, I think you are probably aware that women don't discern it, they must be TAUGHT it! It goes against our 'delicate' nature (tee hee hee!) or at least, our natural preference for life and safety. To learn about and accept the truth about the destruction of America and the end goals of our foreign overlords is painful and takes an exceptionally strong woman -- not tooting my horn, just acknowledging the depth of pain and despair this knowledge creates! I do NOT believe this is reparable. You cannot wake up the vast vast majority of sheep and slugs (and sickening rats!) (I apologize for maligning rats!). This country is doomed, and all our discussions and attempts at preparation are hopeless. I grieve for my nephews -- knowing full well that when the "next big war" comes along, they will be not just cannon fodder, but completely unprepared fodder! My weenie sisters and bro's-in-law are raising "enlightened" (in the bad sense -- all peace-love-dovey) kids. My husband and I try and try to raise these issues, and they just give up -- they DON'T care, they are not interested: they just want to live their little lives... Millions and millions of little lives, lived by people who are not interested in knowing what is happening, because knowing is painful. > **I'm not sure, however, if you know who our real enemy is. It is not women per se, but I did highlight from your quote, and I'd like to ask you your thoughts on WHY that happened? Who turned who into what? Was it natural? Why did men "drop the ball"?** Anyway, to your questions. The more I read, the more I find (having been first awakened by my husband), the more clear it is that this whole desturction is planned, managed, and hastened by (ooohhhh she's gonna say a bad thing....) international jewry -- communism/socialism, feminism, civil rights, and on and on were all created (and are managed) by jews to destroy gentile society... And the d@mned "individualist" Americans can't band together to stop the takeover and destruction. There are two ways to 'run' people -- lies and violence. Where an aristocracy (a WARRIOR aristocracy) uses violence to control the masses (who will ALWAYS need controlling!), the group (society/nation) survives longer. Where, as is the case here, it's run by lies, the ones who are the best liars and storytellers (guess who) will run things. And a relatively cohesive group with a warrior ethos will always beat them! So far, our technology has protected us -- but since we've been selling it and spreading it around to our enemies (many of whom are more violent than lying), and inviting our enemies into our 'camps' -- our technological superiority is pretty much defeated -- which means, SO ARE WE! American was founded by a bunch of peasants, and without an aristocracy to manage, control, protect, and guide the peasants, it all breaks down. All these rootless headless people can NOT be called on to consider the correct options and fight for OUR survival -- although they will surely fight for israel's... Individualists are unwilling/unable band together, to subordinate themselves to the needs of the group (who would want to, after all?), and so we have a mass grouping of so-called "Americans" who haven't the drive or attachment to the country to fight (can you see any of the millions and millions of immigrants who are sending their money "back home" joining up to protect the U.S.? Me neither!) How about our illiterate and undisciplined black males -- the ones not currently in jail? Sure there are a bunch of "good ones" -- men who are men, who share the American ethos and will fight for America, but not the vast majority! How about our weenie white men -- too caught up in animals rights, dressin' cool, and playin' video games to learn to fight? (Granted, most of our fighting men are white southerners and mid-westerners... "real" men, dedicated to this country and protecting it. But the citified, 'delicate' young men rising up into what should be the ranks? Nope. (I'm ex-Navy... I KNOW the belief and desire to "protect America" that is a major source of our military men's strength -- but very few of them (even (or is it especially?) at the flag level) are able to read, look, and determine if the USE the civilian peasants and collaborators and foreign rulers put them to is justified!! And no, I DON'T believe women should be in the military! I was a staunch feminist back then (mid-70s) and really believed women could do it... But by the end of 6 years active duty... I knew that most couldn't! And it was destructive of the military to try.) > ** Anyway, your responses are most welcome and I hope you keep posting here!!** Thank you. I will try! --- ### kminta *2002-12-19 03:50* | [User Profile](/od/user/255) > **How about our illiterate and undisciplined black males -- the ones not currently in jail? Sure there are a bunch of "good ones" -- men who are men, who share the American ethos and will fight for America, but not the vast majority!** Then count me among the "good one" because I love this country just as much as everyone on this board and I'm saddened by what it has become. --- ### Ragnar *2002-12-19 03:59* | [User Profile](/od/user/8) > *Originally posted by Avalanche*@Dec 19 2002, 03:31 **The more I read, ... the more clear it is that this whole desturction is planned, managed, and hastened by .... international jewry -- communism/socialism, feminism, civil rights, and on and on were all created ... by jews to destroy gentile society...** Much truth there but remember who rolled over and why. Powerful men -- our kinsmen -- wanted divorce laws relaxed, and they were. Powerful corporate souls wanted cheap labor and we got multiculturalism and all of the joys that come with it. "Jewry" did the donkeywork and invented such hooey as feminism, but where was the *resistance?* Powerful white men never allowed any. Blame the traitors for this. How long would feminism have lasted if the TV networks weren't ordered to go along with them from the git-go? Even if Jews run the networks, they weren't ordering every corporation in America to buy air time. Powerful white men did that. They rolled over because they got plenty in return. --- ### xmetalhead *2002-12-19 15:06* | [User Profile](/od/user/80) > *Originally posted by kminta*@Dec 18 2002, 22:50 **> **How about our illiterate and undisciplined black males -- the ones not currently in jail? Sure there are a bunch of "good ones" -- men who are men, who share the American ethos and will fight for America, but not the vast majority!** Then count me among the "good one" because I love this country just as much as everyone on this board and I'm saddened by what it has become.** Hello **kminta**. I'm happy to know you are a "good one"; there definitely needs to be more like you. We, here on OD, know very well that this country is going down-town in a hurry and it's heartbreaking to watch, and almost nothing can stop it........but the TRUTH shall set us free. Keep posting K. **Avalanche!**, I'm digging your prose honey. You're man done taught you well. I'm currently schooling my lady, and I hope she comes out as smart as you. We need our women to be awakened. We need our World to be awakened. **Ragnar** your post is sad, but all to true. What I would say, however, is that there were brave White men and women back in the day, that did fight long and hard against the Communist movement. Unfortunately, for them and us, the Cabal is deeper, stronger and more omnipotent than any of us shall ever know. But traitors can never be forgiven. --- ### Avalanche *2002-12-20 04:58* | [User Profile](/od/user/243) kminta: > **Then count me among the "good ones" because I love this country just as much as everyone on this board and I'm saddened by what it has become.** Welcome, and I'm glad you're here (your presence alone speaks well of you)!! Ragnar > **but remember who rolled over and why. Powerful men -- our kinsmen -- wanted divorce laws relaxed, and they were. Powerful corporate souls wanted cheap labor and we got multiculturalism and all of the joys that come with it. "Jewry" did the donkeywork and invented such hooey as feminism, but where was the resistance?** And, I'd suggest, there are your American peasants... Duty is just fine, until someone lets you set it down. > **Powerful white men never allowed any. ** Can you name some of these? Would it be the collaborators, such as President Wilson, who sold us out in the Federal Reserve and income tax? The robber barons? Hopped-up peasants who by money and/or power were in the PLACE of aristocracy, without the honor, responsibility, duty and willingness to use violence (at least in an honorable way -- sending young men to die for jews in Europe does NOT count! grumphgrumph) to manage "their" peasantry?! An true aristocrat has a true sense of his responsbility to manage, control, protect, and guide the people dependent on him -- and will PROTECT them from outsiders, not sell them for fodder! We just read: [url=http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a073.htm]http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a073.htm[/url] on Venona and Nightingale intercepts reveal massive infiltrations. Even KNOWING the underhandeness of Roosevelt LYING us into WWII, this is an article to choke you! --- ### Ragnar *2002-12-20 05:20* | [User Profile](/od/user/8) > *Originally posted by Avalanche*@Dec 20 2002, 04:58 ** Can you name some of these? ** I could name a slew, but I always start and end with... RONBO! Okay, I voted for him, but Reagan's "media deregulation" is one of the main reasons the national debate is so anemic today. He took Hollywood money (they were old pals of his, of course) and he gave them what amounts to a dictator's "enabling act" over the audience of America. The odd fact remains that the main objections to this came from the left -- Project Censored from North Carolina, for example. You're very right about Roosevelt. Again, don't look for Big Media to shine any light on that either. The peasants, on the other hand, have been reading *The New Dealers War* and are connecting the dots to 9-11. Things might get interesting. --- ### Ed Toner *2002-12-20 13:06* | [User Profile](/od/user/66) While I was flying Connies for Aer Lingus, I met an Irish girl in Dublin. Married her after 4 dates. 43 years and 6 kids later, no regrets. A real looker, still is. One of 8 kids living in a Co. Council house. Dirt poor by our standards, but with great genes, which is where real wealth lies. Back in the 1950's the lib thing was starting to catch on, and I had to break up 2 engagements with American women. --- ### Walter Yannis *2002-12-20 14:27* | [User Profile](/od/user/57) > *Originally posted by xmetalhead*@Dec 18 2002, 13:53 ** > *Originally posted by Avalanche*@Dec 17 2002, 21:31 **Where once men took on responsibility for a wife and family, and had the support of a community of responsible men who were supporting THEIR families...  **men were turned into (or accepted demotion into) economic cogs, and women had no choice but to find a way to support and care for themselves**.  Had men NOT dropped the ball, women would not have had to pick it up.  If a woman has no way to feed her kids (or herself) by relying on her man, then she MUST fight for "equal rights" -- because she is now required to fulfill the man's job.   ** Avalanche, thanks for the women's perspective here on OD. We do need more awakened women in our movement.....actually that is the only way we are going to succeed; more women who discern the political and social issues like us men do. I'm not sure, however, if you know who our real enemy is. It is not women per se, but I did highlight from your quote, and I'd like to ask you your thoughts on WHY that happened? Who turned who into what? Was it natural? Why did men "drop the ball"? Anyway, your responses are most welcome and I hope you keep posting here!! ** I join you in welcoming Avalanche to our holy deliberations. Avalanche: Welcome Home! Walter --- ### Walter Yannis *2002-12-20 14:56* | [User Profile](/od/user/57) > *Originally posted by Ed Toner*@Dec 20 2002, 13:06 ** While I was flying Connies for Aer Lingus, I met an Irish girl in Dublin. Married her after 4 dates. 43 years and 6 kids later, no regrets. A real looker, still is. One of 8 kids living in a Co. Council house. Dirt poor by our standards, but with great genes, which is where real wealth lies. Back in the 1950's the lib thing was starting to catch on, and I had to break up 2 engagements with American women. ** Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman. American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble. At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. My wife is from a very traditional culture (South Eastern Europe). While like her mother my wife is very well educated, there was never any doubt that her first priority was to hearth and home. I've been happily married for 15 years now, we have children. I work and make the money, she takes care of the kids and makes the home. Having her take care of the home is the thing that allowed me to finish school and move up in my profession. Believe me, it was not at all my plan. She was the one who forced me into four years of night school, worked to pay the bills when she had to, raised the kids, and basically got my backside out of bed in the morning to bring home the bacon to her and her babies. It was tough at first, but it was worth it. Things are great for both of us. Marriage is a big, big deal. I was one of the more irresponsible young men I've ever known, but traditional marriage and children made me get over myself, at least to a degree. To all my young racial brothers, I can only say that shouldering the burdens of manhood - holding down a job, marrying a nice girl and staying true to her and your kids, being master of your house - is the only way sure way to become a man. Walter --- ### Ragnar *2002-12-20 21:26* | [User Profile](/od/user/8) > *Originally posted by Ed Toner*@Dec 20 2002, 13:06 ** Back in the 1950's the lib thing was starting to catch on, and I had to break up 2 engagements with American women. ** Thanks for reminding the youngsters that this lib stuff started lots earlier than 1970. --- ### MadScienceType *2002-12-20 22:06* | [User Profile](/od/user/242) > **While I was flying Connies for Aer Lingus** You flew Connies? That is one sweet-looking aircraft. I know the 707 came along and doomed the prop jobs, but for my money, there's no finer sight than a Connie flying over flashing that triple-tail in the sun. Sorry, I guess my aircraft fetish is showing. :D Must have been pretty noisy with four 3350s (or were they 4360s) humming along in close formation. Good for you and Walter. I'm just starting out the same road, but there's a certain satisfaction in finding an ally in this sometimes indifferent world. Oh, and by the way, all the good American women aren't gone. I got mine, but you just have to know where to look. The South is a good place to start. :) Or, you could craft your own, as apparently Avalanche's lucky man has done! --- ### Avalanche *2002-12-21 03:08* | [User Profile](/od/user/243) MadScienceType: > **Or, you could craft your own, as apparently Avalanche's lucky man has done!** Oh (blush) thanks... Let me invite you over to continue this discussion in a new thread called Women vs. Men. I think there are a LOT more American women who would WELCOME an awakening, once you break them out of mistrust and self-protection. Six years ago, as I was (mentally) twisting and turning, trying to figure out where this overwhelming desire to subordinate myself to Michael could POSSIBLY have come from (we met via email), he wrote to me: > **My Darling, ask yourself what I have "done" to "master" you?  It seems that I am your master simply by "being."  You seem to sense my confidence, my composure, my gentle disposition toward you -- all of which speak subtly to your intellect and emotions of reserves of power that need not be impressed upon you. Evidently, there is nothing you can "do" to resist me.  Can you talk yourself into disbelieving what you have found to be true?  Could you convincingly pretend that I don't exist?** And: > **But it appears that I needn't lift a finger to "master" you -- your own instincts are subjecting you to me.  If I "tried" to master you, I would be thwarting the work of your own subconscious desires.** I was a radical feminist (while NOT being particularly leftist, I was ex-Navy and all...) and to be swept by a desire to give up my independence, to LET Michael take care and control and management of me, to provide for my well-being and safety was completely foreign (my sisters STILL think I'm nuts for not insisting on my equality in all things!). I have a good woman friend, who is the MOST macho woman I have EVER met -- and when I had her read Pat Allen's book -- she figured out that she wanted to be taken care of by a man, not take care of one. There are most assuredly women out there, but they may be hard to identify! --- ### Primal *2002-12-22 00:35* | [User Profile](/od/user/9) From TBRNews.org article linked by Avalanche: *Recent accusations that the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in selling crack cocaine to raise funds for their clandestine operations have been hotly denied in stories printed and aired by friendly media outlets. But the final conclusion to this unfortunate business came in December of 1997 when the entire story was proven to be a complete fabrication. The source of this proof was none other than the Inspector General of the CIA, thus guaranteeing, at least to his employers, the veracity of the denial and the exculpation of his agency of any wrongdoing.* I have my doubts that this one is out of the woods either. I read *Compromised: Clinton Bush and the CIA*, by Terry Reed and John Cummings (or whatever his name is). It's about the big plan for the *Covenant*, and was interesting especially in its telling of the Bill Clinton and Mena airport drug smuggling fiasco. And about the way the Arkansas crowd tried to ruin Reed with a failed law suite for whistle-blowing. --- ### skemper *2002-12-22 05:21* | [User Profile](/od/user/273) [QUOTE Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman. American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble. At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. With comments like that, Walter, no wonder there are not many women here. With attitudes like yours, no wonder many American women take the feminist road. Maybe the real reason you couldn't find a decent American woman was because you were "one of the most irresponsible males that I had ever known" and the American women you dated and maybe even had married did not put up with it for long. Women from Slavic cultures put up with a lot of crap from their men, such as drunkedness, wife beating, and the general atitude that women are second-class citizens. I speak Russian and have been arond it in the slavic culture in Amerian and in Russia, and this is what I have observed. Also, need I remind you that the Jewish pimps of the world get many of their prostitutes from women of slavic countries. Walter, just because you had a lot of bad luck with American women doesn't mean that you should bash them as a whole. The fact that you use the statement" "there are so many other options" shows that you view women as commodities and not as persons. I am sure that most of the men here are happily married to American women and if you are one of them, you shouldn't let weak men like Walter insult your women. The fact that he bashed American women is an insult to your wives. You men should be giving this jerk the forum equivalent of a bloody nose.The fact that men here don't defend their women show that they are weak. Men, prove me wrong on that last statement. I am tired of the bashing of American women. If you men are having problems with women, American or otherwise, talk about the individual woman or group of women that you have problems with rather than bitching about the shortcomings of American women. I gentlemen, am a proud American woman and will battle cheap shots against women of my nationality. --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 16:07* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) How many men who complain that America is full of nothing but "feminazi" women actually realistically look for the right women in places where they would most likely be (such as Church groups?) instead of only trying to pick up young "hotties" at the single's bar? Don't be the male equivalent of the bitter girl who thinks that all men are "pigs" while only dating men from the college frat parties. --- ### jay *2002-12-22 16:23* | [User Profile](/od/user/159) I would agree that women are much more likely to respond to sense than anger. As they say, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar (is that right?) My fiancee and I discuss things, but I always make sure it's from her point of view. She is uncomfortable with them at movie theatres, and I play to that. One time, she went to the bathroom and one was WASHING HER HAIR IN THE TOILET. No crap. Women aren't happy with this stuff, but don't push them off. -Jay --- ### madrussian *2002-12-22 17:17* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) > *Originally posted by Walter Yannis*@Dec 20 2002, 07:56 ** Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman.  American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble.  At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. ** Good for you. I've seen way too many Americans having to settle for something tubby and/or ugly, while themselves being OK guys. In some areas, there are lots of feminine Asian women too, who dress the way as if they wanted to meet someone, --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 17:42* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) That's what we need - more miscegenation. *sarcasm* --- ### skemper *2002-12-22 17:46* | [User Profile](/od/user/273) > *Originally posted by madrussian*@Dec 22 2002, 11:17 ** > *Originally posted by Walter Yannis*@Dec 20 2002, 07:56 ** Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman.  American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble.  At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. ** Good for you. I've seen way too many Americans having to settle for something tubby and/or ugly, while themselves being OK guys. In some areas, there are lots of feminine Asian women too, who dress the way as if they wanted to meet someone, rather than a man without a dick. ** Madrussian, I have been to your country many times and there are plenty of heavy women there, despite what these bride magazines show. It is easy to get heavy eating the starch and meat based Russian diet. Beleive me, there are many Russian men married to heavy Russian women. Just because a woman is heavy doen't mean that she wouldn't be a good wife. Also, Madrussian, you ought to be ashamed that many of your women are leaving Russian men for foreign men. In a way I cannot blame them because Russian men are notorious for having problems with alcoholism and wife abuse. --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 17:52* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) Use superficial criteria for finding a mate, you'll get a superficial mate. That goes for both men and women. --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 17:56* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) > **It is easy to get heavy eating the starch and meat based Russian diet.** I'm finding that a meat-based diet is better on the weight than the American carb-based diet. All I eat nowadays are different types of meat and potatoes, and I've *lost* a lot of weight compared to when I used to eat a lot of pasta and veggie sandwiches. --- ### Ed Toner *2002-12-22 17:59* | [User Profile](/od/user/66) I was very concious of genes in settling on the woman I married. I'm second generation Irish, and the American girls I dated were likewise. After going to Ireland, I could see the difference in appearance, and attitude, and I like it better. My wife comes from a large family of good looking boys and girls, with brains. Our 6 kids reflect our heritage. --- ### madrussian *2002-12-22 18:00* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) > *Originally posted by skemper*@Dec 22 2002, 10:46 **I have been to your country many times and there are plenty of heavy women there, despite what these bride magazines show. It is easy to get heavy eating the starch and meat based Russian diet. Beleive me, there are many Russian men married to heavy Russian women. Just because a woman is heavy doen't mean that she wouldn't be a good wife. Also, Madrussian, you ought to be ashamed that many of your women are leaving Russian men for foreign men. In a way I cannot blame them because Russian men are notorious for having problems with alcoholism and wife abuse.** Women doing the mail-order bride thing should be no more ashamed than the men ordering a wife via a catalog. Certainly I don't see why I personally should be ashamed for something some desperate or slutty women do. While there are heavies in Russia, certainly the ratio isn't as high, and there is an abundant quantity of pretty and unspoiled marriage material. If a considerable part of the male population is out of the market due to their alcohol problems, more chances for the rest. And by the way, it's not only diet that determines the waistline, but how much one excersizes/walks/climbs stairs etc. too. --- ### madrussian *2002-12-22 18:02* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) > *Originally posted by Edana*@Dec 22 2002, 10:56 **I'm finding that a meat-based diet is better on the weight than the American carb-based diet.  All I eat nowadays are different types of meat and potatoes, and I've *lost* a lot of weight compared to when I used to eat a lot of pasta and veggie sandwiches.** Potatoes are carbohydrates too. --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 18:15* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) Yes, they are. However, they are only the small side-dish next to the juicy chicken breast or ribs! If you eat enough meat protein, you don't feel hungry enough to gorge out on the potatoes. --- ### N.B. Forrest *2002-12-22 20:19* | [User Profile](/od/user/53) I'm going the high protein-low carbohydrate route myself, and seeing good results. I've totally eliminated flour & grain products, 'taters, etc, but I still enjoy some sugar in my dessert. Can't get rid of *that* completely..... As for the bad attitudes & actions of American men driving American women to feminism, one could just as easily say the reverse is true (and I think it is). If poor male treatment of the ladies is the cause of this jew disease, then apparently Russian women would be the sickest of all. --- ### Edana *2002-12-22 20:46* | [User Profile](/od/user/228) > **I'm going the high protein-low carbohydrate route myself, and seeing good results. I've totally eliminated flour & grain products, 'taters, etc, but I still enjoy some sugar in my dessert. Can't get rid of that completely.....** I could never completely eliminate a type of food I like from my diet. I've gotten fine results just by using moderation and making sure I get enough meat protein so I don't crave too many carbs. Snacking is out of the question! > **As for the bad attitudes & actions of American men driving American women to feminism, one could just as easily say the reverse is true (and I think it is). If poor male treatment of the ladies is the cause of this jew disease, then apparently Russian women would be the sickest of all.** More like - some paid propagandaists of a certain ilk convinced large portions of the White middle class female bored housewives that they were "oppressed", and existing examples of bad male behavior were used to reinforce the propaganda and drive more women to feminism after it was already injected into the culture. White men, being the gentlemen that they actually are, rather than evil "oppressors", rolled over. --- ### Frederick William I *2002-12-23 07:56* | [User Profile](/od/user/58) > *Originally posted by Avalanche*@Dec 18 2002, 02:31 **After much working it through, we came to the agreement that a) yes, feminism is a bad bad thing -- however B) women HAD NO CHOICE because men had dropped their responsibilities towards them. Where once men took on responsibility for a wife and family, and had the support of a community of responsible men who were supporting THEIR families...  men were turned into (or accepted demotion into) economic cogs, and women had no choice but to find a way to support and care for themselves.  Had men NOT dropped the ball, women would not have had to pick it up.  If a woman has no way to feed her kids (or herself) by relying on her man, then she MUST fight for "equal rights" -- because she is now required to fulfill the man's job.   *I* am more lucky than I can express -- having found a man who supports, guides, cares for, and protects me.  But my sisters and my friends have not, and probably cannot. (Besides, they have been so tainted by feminism/liberalism that they'd probably spit on a "real" man...)** I do appreciate your bringing this topic up AV, which is a quite serious one, even though we got diverted into whether Russian or American women were fatter :rolleyes: You're quite right about the origins of the breakdown in intergender relations. Fundamentally the culprit is the rise of radical individualism in society, which has led to the breakdown in the family. The loss of confidence in the family has led to the rise of womens liberation and feminism, which is a deeply pathological state for society. Kevin MacDonald in Culture of Critique had some interesting comments on this from an evolutionary psychology perspective. Briefly what he is saying is that with the breakdown of the family western women have been pathologicaly enveloped in the sociopathy of feminism. > **Indeed there is considerable reason to suppose that Western tendencies toward individualism are unique and based on evolved psychological adaptions... We have seen that Western individualism is intimately entwined with scientific thinking and social structures based on hierarchic harmony, sexual egalitarianism, and democratic and republican forms of government. These uniquely Western tendencies suggest that reciprocity is a deeply ingrained western tendency..... Another critical component of the evolutionary basis of individualism is the elaboration of the human affectional system as an individualistic pair-bonding system, the system that seemed so strange that it was theorized to be a thin veneer overlaying a deep psychopathology to a generation of Jewish intellectuals emerging from the ghetto..... This system is highly elaborated in Western cultures in both men and women, and it is psychometrically linked with empathy, altruism, and nurturance. Individuals who are very high on this system- predominantly females- are pathologically prone to altruistic, nurturant, and dependent behavior... Such a perspective also accounts for the much-commented-on gender gap in voting in which females favor political candidates with liberal positions on social issues.... and political stances that equalize rather than accentuate differences between individuals and groups.... This system continues to be adaptive in the modern world in its role in underlying high-investment parenting, but it is easy to see that the relative hypertrophy of this system may result in maladaptive behavior if a system designed for empathy, altruism, and nurturance of family members and others in a closely related group becomes directed at a world outside the family** The inability to really seriously address and get to the roots this problem in western society, and the bickering womens/men issues always cause (even on this forum) is an indication, even though we joke about it, of the seriousness of the problem. --- ### Walter Yannis *2002-12-23 08:41* | [User Profile](/od/user/57) > *Originally posted by N.B. Forrest*@Dec 22 2002, 20:19 ** I'm going the high protein-low carbohydrate route myself, and seeing good results. I've totally eliminated flour & grain products, 'taters, etc, but I still enjoy some sugar in my dessert. Can't get rid of *that* completely..... As for the bad attitudes & actions of American men driving American women to feminism, one could just as easily say the reverse is true (and I think it is). If poor male treatment of the ladies is the cause of this jew disease, then apparently Russian women would be the sickest of all. ** I've been on the "Caveman Diet" for the past 18 months. It's been amazing. The theory behind the plan is that while we need to eat "naturally", we need first determine what "natural" means. It turns out that humans have been eating a diet based on meat, fish, eggs, nuts, green vegetables and some fruits for millions of years. We added agricultural products only very recently in evolutionary terms - a maximim of 10,000 years ago. Thus, our evolved immune systems are not equipped to recognize the proteins contained in an "agricultural" diet, and this expresses itself in a number of disorders, including arthritis, diabetes, obesity, asthma, and some even say cancer. Thus, we "Cavemen" eliminate from our diet anything deriving from agriculture: dairy products, grains, sugar, potatoes, beans, but we eat anything that our caveman ancestors would eat: animal flesh of all kinds, all vegetables (except for the agricultural potatoes and beans), fruits (but watch the sugar content in the modern fruits!), nuts and berries. We don't worry about portions. Also, we cavemen have to work out several times per week, in an attempt to approximate the exercise levels of our hunter-gatherer ancestors. We eat only meat from time to time in order to lose weight. The results for me were dramatic. I suffered from a number of medical problems: 1. Asthma - I had adult-onset asthma, and this in nearly entirely gone. I suspect dairy products were the culprit. I think that air pollution (and some food additives) are responsible for the small symptoms I still exhibit. I note that when I eat only meat and breath clean air, my asthma disappears completely. This after 16 years of inhaling hormones. Man. 2. Related to asthma, my head was so chronically stuffed up that they had to punch holes in my ear drums so I could hear. That's gone. 3. Cold sores. I used to get a major outbreak of oral coldsores at least once per month. They're gone completely. 4. Irritable bowel. Not pleasant to discuss, but I went from one extreme to the next for years. That's all over with. 5. Cholesterol. All of my blood tests, including especially the bad cholesterol, went from being dangerously high to well within normal range. This dispite the fact that I eat six eggs on average per day. 6. I used to get colds and flu quite often, and I missed a good deal of work. I haven't missed a day's work since I started the diet. 7. Weight. I weighed nearly 300 lbs. I'm a big guy, but this was just awful. I lost 45 pounds, it just melted away in a few months. I've maintained since then. I'm still overweight, but not by nearly as much. With the asthma gone, I started to feel better and I worked out more. Now I swim four times per week. My doctor was just floored by all of this, as it goes against all the conventional wisdom. He wants me to talk to his other patients about it - he has an open mind, so I say good for him. I've found that I need to live more naturally; i.e. more in tune with my evolved needs. That most emphatically does NOT mean soybean curd and granola. It does me eating like our Cro Magnon ancestors. All I can really say is that it worked for me. Walter --- ### Walter Yannis *2002-12-23 08:52* | [User Profile](/od/user/57) > *Originally posted by skemper*@Dec 22 2002, 05:21 ** [QUOTE Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman. American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble. At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. With comments like that, Walter, no wonder there are not many women here.  With attitudes like yours, no wonder many American women take the feminist road. Maybe the real reason you couldn't find a decent American woman was because you were "one of the most irresponsible males that I had ever known" and the American women you dated and maybe even had married did not put up with it for long. Women from Slavic cultures put up with a lot of crap from their men, such as drunkedness, wife beating, and the general atitude that women are second-class citizens.  I speak Russian and have been arond it in the slavic culture in Amerian and in Russia, and this is what I have observed.  Also, need I remind you that  the Jewish pimps of the world get many of their prostitutes from women of slavic countries. Walter, just because you had a lot of bad luck with American women doesn't mean that you should bash them as a whole.  The fact that you use the statement" "there are so many other options" shows that you view women as commodities and not as persons.  I am sure that most of the men here are happily married to American women and if you are one of them, you shouldn't let weak men like Walter insult your women. The fact that he bashed American women is an insult to your wives. You men should be giving this jerk the forum equivalent of a bloody nose.The fact that men here don't defend their women show that they are weak. Men, prove me wrong on that last statement. I am tired of the bashing of American women. If you men are having problems with women, American or otherwise, talk about the individual woman or group of women  that you have problems with rather than bitching about the shortcomings of American women.   I gentlemen, am a proud American woman and will battle cheap shots against women of my nationality. ** In the immortal words of Mick Jagger: "I ain't no schoolboy, but I know what I like!" While I certainly have some very good friends who are American women, I don't particularly like American women in a romantic sort of way. As a group, of course, there are exceptions. However, based on my long experience, American women are far less feminine than the groups you mention. They tend to be more overweight, less attractive, less well educated and comparatively uncultured, more narrow minded, more prone to petty offenses, and in general less family orientated than, say, a Georgian beauty. Hey, I'm not against anybody. In fact, I wish American women very well, especially my many close relatives and friends. I'm just reporting how it is for me. Walter --- ### skemper *2002-12-23 15:10* | [User Profile](/od/user/273) > *Originally posted by Walter Yannis*@Dec 23 2002, 02:52 ** > *Originally posted by skemper*@Dec 22 2002, 05:21 ** [QUOTE Yeah, I purposely found myself a foreign woman. American women are generally so brainwashed with this feminazi multi-culti nonsense that they're just not worth the trouble. At least not when there are just sooooo many other options. With comments like that, Walter, no wonder there are not many women here.  With attitudes like yours, no wonder many American women take the feminist road. Maybe the real reason you couldn't find a decent American woman was because you were "one of the most irresponsible males that I had ever known" and the American women you dated and maybe even had married did not put up with it for long. Women from Slavic cultures put up with a lot of crap from their men, such as drunkedness, wife beating, and the general atitude that women are second-class citizens.  I speak Russian and have been arond it in the slavic culture in Amerian and in Russia, and this is what I have observed.  Also, need I remind you that  the Jewish pimps of the world get many of their prostitutes from women of slavic countries. Walter, just because you had a lot of bad luck with American women doesn't mean that you should bash them as a whole.  The fact that you use the statement" "there are so many other options" shows that you view women as commodities and not as persons.  I am sure that most of the men here are happily married to American women and if you are one of them, you shouldn't let weak men like Walter insult your women. The fact that he bashed American women is an insult to your wives. You men should be giving this jerk the forum equivalent of a bloody nose.The fact that men here don't defend their women show that they are weak. Men, prove me wrong on that last statement. I am tired of the bashing of American women. If you men are having problems with women, American or otherwise, talk about the individual woman or group of women  that you have problems with rather than bitching about the shortcomings of American women.   I gentlemen, am a proud American woman and will battle cheap shots against women of my nationality. ** In the immortal words of Mick Jagger: "I ain't no schoolboy, but I know what I like!" While I certainly have some very good friends who are American women, I don't particularly like American women in a romantic sort of way. As a group, of course, there are exceptions. However, based on my long experience, American women are far less feminine than the groups you mention. They tend to be more overweight, less attractive, less well educated and comparatively uncultured, more narrow minded, more prone to petty offenses, and in general less family orientated than, say, a Georgian beauty. Hey, I'm not against anybody. In fact, I wish American women very well, especially my many close relatives and friends. I'm just reporting how it is for me. Walter ** Walter, This last post backs up what I said. I have travelled to Russia a number of times on business with my husband. We both walked the streets in both large and small Russian cities. My husband's opinion is that he thinks that Russian women are less attractive and there are more overweight women per captia when one just does a street survey. He was not impressed with them. The women one sees in these dating services are just the top beauties. Russian women are uncultured in that they use lots more profanity in their everyday speech (the Russian language has more cuss words than English and ways to use them) ,and that they are more promiscious as a whole than American women. Virginity and chastity in both sexes are not taken as seriously there.In America there are still groups of Christian men and women who take their religion and morals seriously. They also have a much more worldly mindset, even if they are orthodox. The fact that these women pose in scantly clothes on these sites shows the type of women they are. If any American woman posed like that she knows that she would attract nothing but trashy men. They are not the partners that a devout Christian man like many on this site would want. But Walter is right , they are more tolerant petty offenses like drunkedness ( 50% of Russian women have problems with drunkeness also), being treated like a doormat, being cheated on, etc. I find it curious that men find women with actions like these feminine. Walter I am glad that you have a happy marriage but I have seen and talked with Russian women whose American princes turned into frogs. There are jerky American Women and I do not feminists myself, but I want to conclude that if you are attracting jerks of the opposite sex, then you have to look at yourself, and I make this statement to both men and women. --- ### madrussian *2002-12-23 15:31* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) skemper, If I have to judge American women by what I can see on the street/mall :lol: Let's move away from whose women are prettier (so far the validity of your observations can be compared to obesity statistics where the US leads the world) and arrive at where one can find a better woman for "the same money" so to speak. I've seen plenty of professionals here with lousy-looking wives. Not so with the wives of the Russian professionals. Cuss words? The casual usage of the word "f*ck" and its derivatives in the US and its status as an almost normal word one can hear everywhere proves you wrong. "South Park" proves you wrong. Stand-up comedians prove you wrong. The level of vulgarity commonly going as entertainment is astounding. --- ### madrussian *2002-12-23 15:32* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) Walter, I always visualized you as a slim energetic guy from your posts. --- ### madrussian *2002-12-23 15:41* | [User Profile](/od/user/15) As a further diversion of the topic I have the following cultural question: what's up with the strange grimace American women so often wear, silly rubber smile and eyes open so wide that the poor thing looks to be sick. To illustrate here's a photo of Miss Nevada (yuck) (I'll take a "drunken cussing overweight" Russian average woman over THAT) :lol: