← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · kminta
Thread ID: 4754 | Posts: 10 | Started: 2003-02-02
2003-02-02 21:45 | User Profile
**De-Christianizing America **
By Patrick Buchanan
*Originally released December 31, 2001 *
How was America de-Christianized? Answer: Tyrannically, and with surprisingly small resistance from a people whose forebears rank among history's fiercest enemies of undemocratic rule. . . .
Where the First Amendment prohibited Congress from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion," and required Congress to respect the "free exercise" of faith, the Supreme Court reinterpreted the words to justify a preemptive strike on Christianity. All Christian Bibles, books, crosses, symbols, ceremonies, and holidays were ordered out of the public square and public schools. Out went Adam and Eve; in came Heather Has Two Mommies. Out went paintings of Christ ascending into heaven; in came pictures of apes ascending into Homo erectus. Out went Easter; in came Earth Day. Out went Bible teachings about the immorality of homosexuality; in came the homosexuals to teach about the immorality of homophobia. Out went the Commandments; in came the condoms.
Going back fifty years, the Supreme Court has inflicted an almost uninterrupted string of defeats upon the faith of our fathers. In 1948, voluntary religious instruction was outlawed in public schools. In 1962, school prayer went. In 1963, voluntary daily reading from the Bible was declared unconstitutional. In 1980, a Kentucky law that called for posting the Ten Commandments on classroom walls was overturned because the Commandments serve "no secular purpose." . . .
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Sensing Christianity was on the run, lower courts began to outdo the Supreme Court. In 1996, the Ninth Circuit ruled that a large cross erected as a war memorial in a public part in Eugene, Oregon, violated the Constitution. In 1999, the Sixth Circuit ordered the Cleveland Board of Education to cease opening its meetings with a prayer, though Congress does every day. . . .
From kindergarten through twelfth grade, the public schools shape the hearts and minds of America's children and the future of the nation. This is where children are taught what to believe, what to value, how to think, how to live. Now, Christianity, like some vagrant, has been ordered off the school grounds, another bloodless coup of the revolution. . . .
Thus, while America remains a predominantly Christian society and country, her public institutions and popular culture have been thoroughly de-Christianized. . . .
By the twenty-first century, the de-Christianization of our public life was complete. Easter celebrations, Nativity scenes, Christmas carols, and Christian books, stories, pageants, and holidays had all but vanished from public schools and the public square. The schools were no longer run according to the wishes of the parents of the children who attend them, or the taxpayers who sustain them, but according to the dictates of courts imposing the agendas of the ACLU and Humanist Manifesto. . . .
The dethronement of God from American public life was not done democratically, it was done dictatorially, and our forefathers would never have tolerated it. Why did people of a once-fighting faith permit it, when prayer, Christmas carols, Bible reading, and posting the Ten Commandments were backed by huge majorities? Because we live under a rule of judges, Congress is unwilling to confront. If America has ceased to be a Christian country, it is because she has ceased to be a democratic country. This is the real coup d'état.
-- Patrick Buchanan, excerpts from his new book, [url=http://www.theamericancause.org/]The Death of the West[/url] (St. Martin's Press).
2003-02-02 22:00 | User Profile
Another reason to support school choice.
2003-02-02 23:57 | User Profile
I dunno, there are plenty of people - even on this board - that like this trend. Americans who hate X-ian fundamentalists may not like the alternative much better. Too bad they don't understand this simple principle.
But in all seriousness: Christians like order. Rules and laws, authority are important to them. They don't realize that the left doesn't play by those same rules. When they can't ram thru bans on the Confed Flag or demand legal "rights" for gay Boy Scout leaders, they simply threaten them via economic areas. Supreme Court upholds gay scout ban? San Fran United Way bans Scouts from funding.
-Jay
2003-02-03 02:42 | User Profile
(Speaking as a (non-christian) gentile, with knowledge of how the jews are manipulating the whole separation of church and state thing, I am NOT entirely against their program of removing Christian 'things' from the public forum... and some of that is the fault of the christians!) The problem for me is always there seem to be (at least) two types of Christians -- the ones who believe and are willing to allow others their own DIFFERENT beliefs -- and the ones who want to FORCE everyone to do it their way.
I think Christianity is a great thing, and I wish more parents would raise their kids with the more tolerant version.. It DOES create a lovely safe civil world! However, too many Christians don't want to allow others their freedom FROM religion, and want to force the world to go as they want it to. I'm sorry - there is just NO WAY I can accept Creationism or "Intelligent Design" <_< ; and I WANT the schools to teach straight science: flaws and all. Let the non-scientific Christians teach their kids AT HOME that THEY disagree with the 'standard scientific theories' -- but do NOT try to force their religious and anti-science beliefs into schools where OTHER kids will have to listen to it.
(As I said elsewhere on this forum -- if Christians feel the need to have their kids pray in relation to school, do it AT HOME before school. Don't try to make other kids do it along with your kids!)
By their attempts to FORCE EVERYone to do it their way, they have opened the door to, and indeed enlisted, soldiers in the army opposing them! I am one of them! (And no, not entirely willingly, but as long as THEY are attacking me, I have to defend myself!)
(I used to try to be a voice of... I dunno, common sense? .... at Planned Parenthood -- because they do the same thing in reverse. If they would JOIN with Christians to STRESS birth control (and for that matter, the OTHER health services they provide) instead of putting all their fight into the most objectionable aspect of reproductive health, they would NOT create such strong opposition. If they would get people focused and working on STOPPING unwanted pregnancies, they would stop most abortions. But the Christians are pushing for social controls they CANNOT enforce, and so PP pushes for the most effective OPPOSING position! And never the twain shall meet! (Has 'abstinence only' EVER worked? In the HISTORY of human kind? WHY do they think it will work in the days of MTV and rap-crap?!)
It's the risk communication I learned from Peter Sandman's site: his see-saw of communication. If YOU stake out one far-side, your opponents will stake out the OTHER far-side. If you stake out a reasonable spot in between the two polarities, your opponents will also try to deal more rationally (Or they will look ludicrous!)
jay: But in all seriousness: Christians like order. Rules and laws, authority are important to them. The problem is in deciding WHAT rules and laws, and to whom they should apply... Who makes up the rules, and what if a large group don't want to go along?
I mean, really: Control of sexual activity by MARRIED ADULTS (in lots of states...)?! No selling booze on weekends? (If Christians don't want to buy booze on Sunday -- then DON'T! But to FORCE others to not be able to do so, others who do NOT share their religious reasons, is just more proof that the Christians need to be stopped!)
If the Christians weren't trying to enforce THEIR ways of life on EVERYONE, a lot more people would probably not mind so much the prayers at football games and graduations; the 10 Commandments in a judges court... etc. But too often, the ones who insist on pushing their religion so strongly, are also the ones who want to control everyone else and MAKE them do what they want.
2003-02-03 03:50 | User Profile
**Another reason to support school choice. **
I have a better idea. Why not get rid of taxpayer-funded education entirely, starting with K-12.
No cumpulsory education laws, no vouchers, and a nice savings for the taxpayers.
Then every religious persuasion can have its own private schools to run as they see fit beyond government control and meddling from the ACLU.
And for parents who want their kids educated in a secular environment, private secular schools will spring up and be more than happy to fill the need, for a profit of course.
2003-02-03 04:32 | User Profile
Speaking as a non-Christian gentile, I DO have a problem with the courts removing all facets of Christian life from the public square.
Our SC 'justices' should bone up on their English: "...shall make no law respecting...", at the time the amendment was written, would have been clearly understood to mean "...shall neither make anything compulsory, nor illegal". No laws with regard to that subject at all. Of course, with the SC usurping Congress' role as legislative branch, their failure to read the document they're basing their decision on is something of a minor point.
America was and is a Christian nation, and while I do not agree with their (or seemingly any) ideology 100%, I would rather live in a nation that openly celebrates its Christianity than a judeo-athe-humanist one that merely tolerates it.
Drakmal
2003-02-03 05:17 | User Profile
Originally posted by Drakmal@Feb 3 2003, 04:32 **Speaking as a non-Christian gentile, I DO have a problem with the courts removing all facets of Christian life from the public square.
Our SC 'justices' should bone up on their English: "...shall make no law respecting...", at the time the amendment was written, would have been clearly understood to mean "...shall neither make anything compulsory, nor illegal". No laws with regard to that subject at all. Of course, with the SC usurping Congress' role as legislative branch, their failure to read the document they're basing their decision on is something of a minor point.
America was and is a Christian nation, and while I do not agree with their (or seemingly any) ideology 100%, I would rather live in a nation that openly celebrates its Christianity than a judeo-athe-humanist one that merely tolerates it.
Drakmal**
You're quite right about the Supreme Court's irrational position. The fact that it has taken this position is just another aspect of the way big government centralization since the Civil War has deprived us of our basic constitutional right.
The religious question is always a relevent one for our country and will always need to be debated in a democratic country. What's more basic though that we're being deprived of is the democratic process itself, that is, the RIGHT as Americans to debate these issues, rather than have decisions foisted upon us by a legal elite.
Alan Dershowitz of course disagrees. He always even makes use of cnstitutionalist-right wing language - we're a "Republic, not a Democracy".
2003-02-03 05:28 | User Profile
Originally posted by Avalanche@Feb 3 2003, 02:42 **(Speaking as a (non-christian) gentile, with knowledge of how the jews are manipulating the whole separation of church and state thing, I am NOT entirely against their program of removing Christian 'things' from the public forum... and some of that is the fault of the christians!) The problem for me is always there seem to be (at least) two types of Christians -- the ones who believe and are willing to allow others their own DIFFERENT beliefs -- and the ones who want to FORCE everyone to do it their way.
I think Christianity is a great thing, and I wish more parents would raise their kids with the more tolerant version.. It DOES create a lovely safe civil world! However, too many Christians don't want to allow others their freedom FROM religion, and want to force the world to go as they want it to. **
Av, I don't know exactly if you follow the National Alliance closely, but it has always been curious to me that it seems your viewpoint on Christianity is pretty much representative of the National Alliance faction of White Nationalism. Curious, because Hitler's attitude toward Christianity was exactly the opposite. He said it was great precisely BECAUSE of its intolerance, than in fact it had been a great force in the Western world when it was intolerant, but now that it had become tolerant and sissified he could no longer support it.
2003-02-04 03:36 | User Profile
Originally posted by Avalanche@Feb 2 2003, 21:42 ** I mean, really: Control of sexual activity by MARRIED ADULTS (in lots of states...)?! No selling booze on weekends? (If Christians don't want to buy booze on Sunday -- then DON'T! But to FORCE others to not be able to do so, others who do NOT share their religious reasons, is just more proof that the Christians need to be stopped!)
**
As for sex laws, these laws were made for a population who I imagine generally believed that such laws were appropriate. If so then these laws were simply democracy in action. That is not to say that those who usually most democracy think anything of these democractic results.
These laws were made when the citizens actually had some say in government. They were made by men, who according to most modern notions do nothing but think about sex every 10 minutes. I wonder how much these laws really imposed on people? How many were convicted by them? How many people would have engaged in those acts were there no law? I wonder if sex laws weren't mostly just an expression of the values of the people. And if so they are a fine historical record of a people who at one time had less concern for sensual pleasure than our hedonistic culture.
I have no problem with blue laws. I think they make perfect sense. It seems to me that having a day of rest every seven days is a good thing. Blue laws simply defined a day of rest, they set a common, reasonable constraint on all business. Under blue laws everyone had the opportunity to take care of things during the last 6 days of the week. Blue laws promoted planning, and delayed gratification. Both of which are sorely lacking in our moder culture.
Having said that it is appauling that so many Christians would act so pharisaical. When Christian people go to a store on Sunday they are promoting work on the Sabbath. They are creating a market in which employers require their employees to miss church in order to work. In the days of slavery even the slave had his Sabbath protected. The lawmakers thought that even the least in the society should be given a day of rest which would be best used by attending church. From our modern perspective it seems that blue laws only hindered reasonable commerce. But viewed in another way it seems that our society is not able to act Christian without the force of law. The second view is far more disheartening as I believe it was the unforced Christian fidelity of our people that made this nation great.
If the Christians weren't trying to enforce THEIR ways of life on EVERYONE, a lot more people would probably not mind so much the prayers at football games and graduations; the 10 Commandments in a judges court... etc. But too often, the ones who insist on pushing their religion so strongly, are also the ones who want to control everyone else and MAKE them do what they want.
I certainly understand that many Christians turn people off with their approach. But all politics is about force. Most interest groups, whatever their cause, are looking to change laws and thereby force people to act or not act in a certain way. I really dont see Christians as having much impact at all in how force is applied to people in our culture in these times.
2003-02-04 16:08 | User Profile
I'm sorry - there is just NO WAY I can accept Creationism or "Intelligent Design" <_< ; and I WANT the schools to teach straight science: flaws and all.
What passes for "straight science" at most public schools today is a a joke. But you want flaws & all? I don't want my kid being taught any flaws. Flaws are not "scientific" - are they?
Let the non-scientific Christians teach their kids AT HOME that THEY disagree with the 'standard scientific theories' -- but do NOT try to force their religious and anti-science beliefs into schools where OTHER kids will have to listen to it.
Uh, yeah. Just like the left forces all their homo-philia, divsershitty, anti-white anti-Christian beliefs on public school kids.
If the left - or you - wants Xianity out of the schools, then they'll have to get their rabid belief system out of it, too. But they won't, so I'm happy that Xians fight fire w/fire.
-Jay