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Thread 4721

Thread ID: 4721 | Posts: 6 | Started: 2003-01-31

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il ragno [OP]

2003-01-31 17:28 | User Profile

Bill White raised this point, and it's a good one: what exactly does it mean when government "thwarts" anti-Semitism in the populace? Armed repression? Tianenman Square 'neath the Eiffel Tower? Where will the Jews turn to, after killing Fortuyn & hounding LePen from politics? How many countries are you prepared to invade today, white man?

I said it months ago and see no reason to rescind my prediction: if we do not depose our Jews and bar them from the corridors of power & influence, we will inevitably invade Western Europe and send Negroes to kill our kinsmen for the temerity of demanding white sovreignty for white homelands.

[url=http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=7318]http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscont...php3?artid=7318[/url]

Backlash Vs. Jews Seen In Iraq War
U.S. wants European capitals to do more to thwart possible anti-Semitic surge James D. Besser - Washington Correspondent

Even as it prepares for a possible war with Iraq, the Bush administration is working urgently to avert what it believes could be a widespread anti-Semitic backlash in Europe triggered by a confrontation with Saddam Hussein.

European Jewish communities that already have been hard hit by waves of new anti-Semitic incitement and violence could be early targets of an anti-Israel, anti-American backlash, administration officials have told Jewish leaders.

“Going into Iraq will likely produce an anti-American backlash on the streets of Europe, and the Jews are likely to bear the brunt of it,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

In recent weeks the State Department has used a variety of diplomatic channels to send the same message: European leaders have to do much more to prepare for and thwart the expected anti-Semitic surge.

But the results of those official efforts have been mixed, at best, according to Washington insiders, in part because the expected anti-Semitism surge will be closely linked to a fierce anti-American backlash that may have the quiet acquiescence, if not outright encouragement, of European governments.

In recent meetings with leaders of the World Jewish Congress, top administration officials indicated that they independently raised the specter of a rising tide of anti-Semitism stemming from a possible Iraq war with their European counterparts and urged them to develop pre-emptive plans, said Avi Beker, secretary general of the World Jewish Congress.

The U.S. officials “made it clear they take this very seriously,” Beker said, “that this is something they have to do as part of their war planning.”

Increasingly, Mideast events are fueling anti-Semitism around the world, and particularly in Europe, where anti-Israel rage has been growing since the collapse of Mideast peace talks more than two years ago.

“We know very well that the Americans are sitting with their European allies to discuss what happens on the ‘day after’ Iraq,” Beker said. “We are urging them to consider another scenario: possible outbursts against Jewish targets. At our recent meetings in Europe, European Jewish leaders told us very clearly this is the kind of pressure from the U.S. administration that can affect the behavior of governments there.”

The administration has had one success: It convinced the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, an umbrella security alliance that includes representatives of European, North American and Asian countries, to hold “the first stand-alone meetings on the problem of anti-Semitism in Europe,” said Rabbi Andrew Baker, director of European affairs for the American Jewish Committee.

“Without administration pressure inside OSCE, I doubt there would have been a decision to do this,” Rabbi Baker said. “Their inclination would have been to say, ‘Let’s have a meeting to talk about problems of racism and xenophobia, and from 2 to 3 on Thursday we’ll talk about anti-Semitism.’ ”

Now, he said, the administration is “working to ensure that it is a substantive event.”

The administration’s pre-emptive efforts have won praise even from some Democrats.

“I have been very impressed with their response,” said Rep. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), a senior member of the Jewish delegation in the House and a member of the Helsinki Commission, a congressional group that monitors human rights in Europe. “There is a real sense of urgency, and I think it’s justified.”

Cardin said the Helsinki group, in particular, sees the potential for a significant outbreak of anti-Semitism if and when the Iraq war begins.

“In France, in particular, the rise in anti-Semitism in the past was directly related to Middle East events,” he said. “We expect that when there is even more tension in the region, there will be more open anti-Semitic activity. Individuals will try to justify their anti-Semitism as based on world events. So we do believe we will see a rise in open anti-Semitism.”

The European situation is becoming more volatile because of a dangerous mix of Islamic extremism in many European countries and growing rage by the left over what is widely seen as a unilateral U.S. war. It is also fueled by a longstanding anti-Israel bias in the media that has worsened since the resumption of widespread Palestinian terrorism in 2000 and the increasingly strong Israeli response.

This week’s re-election of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who is widely reviled in Europe, will be one more wild card in a dangerous social mix that could erupt in Jew-baiting.

The Helsinki Commission is “working on specific programs to counter that possibility,” Cardin said. “We are working with European parliamentarians, developing strategies for stronger enforcement of existing laws and modification of laws to deal with changing circumstances, more involvement by interdenominational groups, more involvement in the schools.”

Anticipating a surge of anti-Semitic activity after the Iraq war starts, the congressional group has asked European governments to “inventory their current practices for dealing with anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic violence,” Cardin said. “We hope to have the results for our meetings in Vienna in two weeks.”

Some European allies have gotten the message, he said. “Germany has been good on this; France is finally starting to come around.”

But most Jewish leaders say France, where some of the worst anti-Semitic outbursts have taken place since 2000 and where the Arab immigrant population now outnumbers Jews by 10 to 1, remains a problem.

On Monday a delegation of AJCommittee leaders met with French President Jacques Chirac, who told the delegation that he sees anti-Semitism as a “cancer.”

“He warned that a war with Iraq would result in a new targeting of Jews, in addition to the other crises he said it would cause,” said Jason Isaacson, the AJCommittee’s director of government and international affairs.

Chirac apparently hoped to use that warning as part of his effort to block a U.S. attack on Iraq, but it also reflected reality in his own country, where Jews increasingly have been the targets of violence and harassment.

Isaacson said his group, which works closely with a number of European Jewish organizations, has heard a rising level of concern.

“Many European Jews have felt especially vulnerable for the past two years, and they see the prospect of increased vulnerability if there is a war in Iraq,” he said.

“Europe is the soft underbelly,” said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. “Because of the big Muslim populations and because governments have not delivered a strong message that it will not be tolerated, the problem is growing. You’d have to be deaf and dumb to not take seriously the likelihood Jews and Jewish institutions will be targeted.”

But it’s not only Europe that worries American Jewish leaders. Communities in this country, as well, are bracing for a potential backlash. Some local community councils are setting up “war rooms” to deal with community relations issues stemming from the war.

But few expect the kind of out-of-control anti-Semitism that could erupt in Europe.

“There are extremists here who will try to portray the war as all Israel’s doing, and we have to concerned about the growing anti-Israel energy coming out of the anti-war movement,” said one community relations activist. “But it will probably be confined to the fringes. Under most scenarios, there’s no real fear of widespread anti-Semitism.”

If the war proves difficult and costly, however, that calculus could change. Already the nascent anti-war movement here is steeped in vehement anti-Israel ideology.

“It’s a dangerous mix,” this source said. “We have a bad economy, a war that could go bad and an anti-war movement that seems willing to tolerate real anti-Semitic expressions. So we’d be fools not to take seriously the possibility of a backlash here.”

Polichinello

2003-01-31 17:50 | User Profile

Originally posted by il ragno@Jan 31 2003, 11:28 ** Where will the Jews turn to, after killing Fortuyn... **

The Jews killed Fortuyn? You mean the philo-semitic candidate who was threatening to cut off anti-Jewish Moslem immigration? That guy?

Best, P

il ragno

2003-01-31 18:05 | User Profile

As surely as if they'd pulled the trigger.

Of course, once he was safely DEAD, then it's business as usual - Jews fighting each other for facetime at the memorial podium to officially notice he wanted Arabs out.

Le Pen espoused much the same platform, but I notice you're not so quick to correct me on that assertion, eh? Then again, he's still alive.

ARABS OUT is well and good.....except it's too closely linked to IMMIGRANTS OUT for comfort. Maybe because IMMIGRANTS OUT is second cousin to FRANCE FOR FRENCHMEN, GERMANY FOR GERMANS & AMERICA FOR AMERICANS.

Polichinello

2003-01-31 20:08 | User Profile

Originally posted by il ragno@Jan 31 2003, 12:05 **As surely as if they'd pulled the trigger.

Of course, once he was safely DEAD, then it's business as usual - Jews fighting each other for facetime at the memorial podium to officially notice he wanted Arabs out.

Le Pen espoused much the same platform, but I notice you're not so quick to correct me on that assertion, eh? Then again, he's still alive.

**

It was well noted before his assissination. He had plenty of supporters among Jews. They had everything to gain with his success.

Le Pen espoused much the same platform, but I notice you're not so quick to correct me on that assertion, eh? Then again, he's still alive.

You asserted murder in the case of Fortuyn. That's a horse of a different color, and yes Jewish groups foolishly marginalized Le Pen, who was pro-Sharon.

Your claim that Le Pen and Fortuyn had the same platform is also downright wrong. Fortuyn was liberal secularist who only wanted to cap immigration. Le Pen had a more sweeping program, and Fortuyn disowned it explicitly.

In fact, if the Jews had murdered Fortuyn, then why not do away with Le Pen or even Chirac? Considering the might, the guile and the cunning you attribute to them, they could certainly arrange a good accident or even have an Arab play patsy (one of the favored theories around here).

ARABS OUT is well and good.....except it's too closely linked to IMMIGRANTS OUT for comfort. Maybe because IMMIGRANTS OUT is second cousin to FRANCE FOR FRENCHMEN, GERMANY FOR GERMANS & AMERICA FOR AMERICANS.

Do you have something more to confirm this charge of murder beyond nebulous, ill-connected and bombastic maybes?

Best, P

jay

2003-01-31 21:51 | User Profile

Originally posted by Polichinello@Jan 31 2003, 14:08 ** In fact, if the Jews had murdered Fortuyn, then why not do away with Le Pen or even Chirac? Considering the might, the guile and the cunning you attribute to them, they could certainly arrange a good accident or even have an Arab play patsy (one of the favored theories around here). **

Chirac? Why would they ace him? He's pro-Israel and pro-Jew. He's not even comparable to LePen, and I don't know why you used him as an example.

-Jay

Polichinello

2003-01-31 21:56 | User Profile

Originally posted by jay@Jan 31 2003, 15:51 ** > Originally posted by Polichinello@Jan 31 2003, 14:08 ** In fact, if the Jews had murdered Fortuyn, then why not do away with Le Pen or even Chirac?  Considering the might, the guile and the cunning you attribute to them, they could certainly arrange a good accident or even have an Arab play patsy (one of the favored theories around here). **

Chirac? Why would they ace him? He's pro-Israel and pro-Jew. He's not even comparable to LePen, and I don't know why you used him as an example.

-Jay **

I used him as an extreme example, thus the "or even Chirac." To hear all the shrieking on the part of the Gaul-bashing neocons about him, particularly from NRO's Michael Ledeen, you would think he'd be on "The Jew's" enemies list.

Best, P