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Thread ID: 4456 | Posts: 26 | Started: 2003-01-15

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Faust [OP]

2003-01-15 05:23 | User Profile

CBS’ 60 Minutes Fires First Shot In New H-1B Battle

By Joe Guzzardi

Break the bad news to your children gently.

Tell them the way 60 Minutes sees things:

Abandon all hope of working in Silicon Valley. Those jobs are reserved for the best and the brightest; the graduates of the Indian Institute of Technology.

That’s the gospel according to Lesley Stahl’s January 12th piece “Imported from India”. According to Stahl, I.I.T. is the most demanding university on the planet and its graduates the most talented, hardest working people on the face of the earth.

“What do we import from India?” asks Stahl. “Really smart people!” “Imagine,” gushed Stahl, “Harvard, Princeton and M.I.T. all rolled into one.”

“American companies,” Stahl continued, “love I.I.T. graduates.”

No one from Harvard, Princeton or M.I.T. was interviewed. But 60 Minutes assured viewers that the curriculum from I.I.T. is the most rigorous in the world.

Vinod Khosla, co-founder of Sun Microsystems [send him mail] and I.I.T. graduate made this observation: “If you are a WASP walking in for a job, you wouldn't have as much pre-assigned credibility as you do if you're an engineer from I.I.T.”

And, stop the presses! We are blessed that so many of those doors are right here in the U.S! More than two-thirds of I.I.T. graduates migrate to America—most of them on H-1B visas.

The 60 Minutes segment represents the first cannon shot in what looms as a bitter battle over H-1B visa legislation set for October.

Consider this salvo from Khosla: “…the American consumer and the American business in the end is the beneficiary…”

The industry is lobbying for an increase in the 195,000 level established in 2000; weary, displaced American software workers who want their jobs back want the total to revert to its original 65,000---or less.

Seasoned immigration observers recall that originally H-1B visas were intended to “temporarily” satisfy a supposed “shortage” of qualified American software engineers.

But, as always, temporary became permanent. Soon after the original H-1B legislation was enacted, fully qualified American workers found themselves on the outside looking in.

So the stage is set for a tough fight: the money grubbers who must argue that they need more imported workers—even though Silicon Valley has laid off hundreds of thousands of workers—against disgusted Americans who want less immigration across the board.

But this time around won’t be a cakewalk for billionaire moguls who love cheap, indentured overseas labor. According to University of California at Davis Professor Norm Matloff, an H-1B expert, there are a lot of reasons why.

Matloff thinks that the industry may have been lucky to get its increases in 1998 and luckier still in 2000. Now, with the well-publicized lay-offs in Silicon Valley and a high public skepticism about immigration and visa abuses, slipping an H-1B visa increase through Congress will be harder.

Too, Matloff points to an increased level of anger and activism among U.S. programmers. Internet websites like www.zazona.com; www.nomorehib.com and www.programmersguild.org have unified the unemployed.

Oddly, a decade ago, when 60 Minutes produced “North of the Border”, the same Lesley Stahl pointed to the H-1B visa as a graveyard for American software workers.

What a difference ten years can make!

Stahl in 1993: “You're actually saying, I think, that--that there are computer companies that are firing Americans in order to bring the lower-wage foreigners in…”

And: “…that there is a deliberate attempt here to--to take the Americans off the payroll and bring in someone who they'll pay half or less than half.”

Stahl wasn’t the only one who got the drift—then.

Demetrious Papademetriou, former Immigration Official and now an open borders champion, [send him mail] told Stahl in 1993:

“These are basically run-of-the-mill people with a degree and some skills, and it seems to me that it is important that we distinguish between people who are truly skilled--who have unique, specialized skills--and people who simply provide labor.”

Stahl’s report reflects an astonishingly arrogant “We are the best, we are the brightest” attitude on the part of I.I.T. graduates. We Americans are simply inferior. Here’s what Sun’s Khosla thinks of American universities:

“When I finished IIT-Delhi and went to Carnegie Mellon for my Masters, I thought I was cruising all the way through Carnegie-Mellon because it was so easy relative to the education I had gotten at IIT-Delhi.”

Remember, this lecture comes from one of the most backward nations in the world—and is delivered to one of the most progressive.

Immediately after “Imported from India” aired my e-mail in box filled up with correspondence from offended VDARE.COM readers.

Wrote one:

“The majority of H-1B's that have come here over the last 2 decades are from well-to-do families that put their kids through private schools and that eschew contact with lower-caste Indians….

The state of public education in India is in crisis and many of the communities where we work do not have adequate or functioning primary schools. In addition to ongoing pressure to improve the public school system, the WLC program provides children with modest access to daily learning, either in complement to their existing schooling or in its absence."

“Why have they all come here if they are so brilliant? Why aren't they staying and building India into a world-class society?

“Whom and what is the H-1B program subsidizing?

“Basically, what I am saying is that the 60 Minutes presentation is a front for another assault on America and Americans.”

Joe Guzzardi, an instructor in English at the Lodi Adult School, has been writing a weekly newspaper column since 1988. This column is exclusive to VDARE.COM.

January 13, 2003

Roy Batty

2003-01-15 21:11 | User Profile

Kosla is known as one of the bigger VC names in IT. However, much of his press is due to his ethnicity, as it's been advantageous to put a non-white front and center when getting starts up together, and especially when facing Tio Sam. Most people in IT feel the real brains behind Kosla is his partner, John Doerr. Their game is to play it off as John Doerr being the backslapper, handshaker, gladhander, and Kosla being the visionary. But talking with insiders, many of them say it's the other way around, with Doerr's ideas being handed off to Kosla. Kosla is pretty bright. I actually have spoken with someone that went to Carnegie Mellon, studying bio-medical engineering at the same time as Kosla (this guy is a hotshot in that field now, but I don't think I can mention his name) - and he says Kosla was working his ass off to stay afloat, so much for "coasting", as this guy (who I should add, is a bonafide genius) says Kosla seemed to get a little lost at times when it came to seeing things not laid out in front of him on paper. He thinks that's why Kosla decided to take the career route he did. However, Kosla has good press (they love to show off the immigrant businessman), and a shrewd handler in Doerr, who knows how to work the press and people, find and expand on good ideas, and take advantage of the ethnic spoils system in place in America today.

Kosla's involvement with the development of Open Systems and RISC processors are pointed at to prop up his credibility. Many of the people that helped pioneer Open Systems and RISC processors roll their eyes at what sometimes seem to be Kosla's attempts to take sole credit for their development. This happens a lot in IT, physics, engineering, etc. as many of you out there know. Especially amongst certain ethnic groups. Not helping the situation is the fact that in order to curry favor with Tio Sam, and all the benefits that can be derived, companies will pluck the Indian or Taiwanese from the team and prop him up as the "leader" etc. when it's time to go meet the press, hit the airwaves, etc.

Kosla is really only doing what whites should be doing, but can't, as they'll be called racist. He's sticking up for his own. It would be interesting to see who funded this piece, who's behind it. Stahl's remarks from ten years ago are interesting, in the way they contrast with her spewing the party line today. It was about ten years ago, while still programming/writing software I and others really noticed a huge influx in the wave of foreign "help" brought in - engineers from Taiwan, Indian programmers, etc. Interestingly, we would here and there see the same thing as others have reported; Indians with great resumes completely lost, as it turned out their credentials were bogus, or their incredibly rigid academic backgrounds not being as incredible as claimed. Many companies, to this day, will still take the time to train these immigrants, as it still amounts to costing less than paying Americans fair wage.

You are also seeing a brain drain from third world countries like India, along with marginally talented offspring of wealthy (in Indian terms) families (mentioned in the article above, and coming off as familiar behavior in the U.S.) fleeing to America to drain the last of the blood from the carcass. Yes, the country, India, is dirt poor, and backward. And for the size of the population, well, the number of brains isn't impressive. They should build their own country into the 21st century, instead of leaving it in the mud age, but the lure of American dollars is strong, as anyone would admit.

For those interested, scour the internet and technical journals, take a look at the number of Indians and Chinese that are credited with MAJOR advancements, inventions and innovations in computing, etc. Don't take my word for it, look it up. There is a dearth of these groups/individuals mentioned when it comes to this, considering their ever increasing numbers. I anticipate the rejoinders from rban, but that's to be expected from Indian supremacists, like he and Kosla. If Kosla and other "hostile" ethnics are allowed to strut, b.s., get favored treatment, etc., it's time for whites to begin to truly band together, and research who is behind the companies they deal with. I take most of this as a sign of eventual collapse anyway, as did other industry people quoted in another thread. Their thrust was that innovation would suffer, in fact was suffering already. They're right.

However, we do get to see how ZOG, the press, and NWO crowd have "news" programs at their disposal. Interesting. The downside is how many ignorant people still believe what 60 Minutes puts out - even though the numbers are declining.

Leveller

2003-01-18 02:23 | User Profile

Time to invent a new character rban, this ones run out of steam. Go on, you've done it before, surprise us!

darkeddy

2003-01-18 06:44 | User Profile

Given the ways Indians routinely lie about these things--wait, I mean boast--I think the Indians claim to have 'coasted' through a top-notch American university ought to inspire the greater amount of credulity.

I am sure a lot of Indians are top-notch programmers. They ought to stay in India and work the make India a great nation. This will help whites, as it will offer as an a strong ally against China, and lay the groundwork for sharing the task of scientific discovery between Westerners and Asians, thereby giving us all many more useful technologies at very speedy pace. Finally, Indians working in India will create a good market for Western goods.

However, if Indians all move here we may just end up slaughtering the lot, and it would be an evil time all around. In any case, we had have to increase the white birth rate even further, which would surely put a strain on all those fine white uteruses (ok, they are more pinkish, but you get my meaning). Simply out of common decency, shouldn't Indians spare the white man the level of clamour and bizarre white female behavior that would result from such a situation? (And no we aren't going to recognize you as our long lost 'white' brothers and sisters and settle down to a lot of stenuous white-Indian bonking, so please don't suggest these boring ideas any long, they aren't actually all that funny after the first time or two. The Lord Krishna will shoot you a whole tub full of bad karma if you keep up that particular comed routine, Rban.)

Okiereddust

2003-01-18 07:58 | User Profile

Originally posted by darkeddy@Jan 18 2003, 06:44 **Given the ways Indians routinely lie about these things--wait, I mean boast--I think the Indians claim to have 'coasted' through a top-notch American university ought to inspire the greater amount of credulity.

I am sure a lot of Indians are top-notch programmers.  They ought to stay in India and work the make India a great nation.  This will help whites, as it will offer as an a strong ally against China, and lay the groundwork for sharing the task of scientific discovery between Westerners and Asians, thereby giving us all many more useful technologies at very speedy pace.  Finally, Indians working in India will create a good market for Western goods. 

**

Originally posted by Roy Batty@ Jan 15 2003, 21:11 Kosla is known as one of the bigger VC names in IT. However, much of his press is due to his ethnicity, as it's been advantageous to put a non-white front and center when getting starts up together, and especially when facing Tio Sam. Most people in IT feel the real brains behind Kosla is his partner, John Doerr. Their game is to play it off as John Doerr being the backslapper, handshaker, gladhander, and Kosla being the visionary. But talking with insiders, many of them say it's the other way around, with Doerr's ideas being handed off to Kosla. Kosla is pretty bright. I actually have spoken with someone that went to Carnegie Mellon, studying bio-medical engineering at the same time as Kosla (this guy is a hotshot in that field now, but I don't think I can mention his name) - and he says Kosla was working his ass off to stay afloat, so much for "coasting", as this guy (who I should add, is a bonafide genius) says Kosla seemed to get a little lost at times when it came to seeing things not laid out in front of him on paper.

I picked up some quotes from Norm Matloff regarding this situation. You, rban, and Roy Batty should all find these of interest.

** Enclosed is the transcript of the 60 Minutes piece on the IITs. I have lots of comments.

As I said on Friday (and have said in the past), I've interacted with a large number of IIT graduates, both as students in my graduate courses and as research colleagues. A few have been truly outstanding, but most have been merely good to excellent. In my opinion, the curriculum at the IITs is not as good as that of top American universities. I have found their course materials pedestrian and often out of date. The IITs' main virtue is their high selectivity. However, the claims being made by the Indians being interviewed here, e.g. Khosla, are incorrect. Khosla, for example, says that no other school in the world has such a low acceptance rate as IIT. That's just false; on the contrary, very low acceptance rates are standard in the top universities in all Third World countries, e.g. China. Again, keep in mind that India has a 50% illiteracy rate. So the low acceptance rates don't mean much.

The point made by the Infosys CEO about his son being accepted to Cornell but not IIT has a grain of truth in it, but not really in the way he and Stahl meant. One big advantage the IIT-level (and almost-IIT-level) students have over U.S. applicants to U.S. schools is that the Indians tend to have outstanding English verbal skills. So, they score extremely well on the SAT Verbal. And by the way, it's real, not just a product of the cram schools mentioned below. These kids have an excellent daily working vocabulary. Good for them. But it doesn't mean they are "brilliant" engineers, as claimed here. And by the way, in applying to a private school like Cornell, I'm sure that it didn't hurt Murthy Junior's chances of admission that his father is a wealthy, influential CEO (read, "Someone who will donate a building to us").

Khosla's statement that he "breezed" through Carnegie Mellon University is not quite what it seems either. He had been a EE major as an undergraduate, but was a Biomedical Engineering student at CMU. There is no comparison of depth of subject matter here; any good EE graduate would breeze through a Biomedical Engineering program. If he had been in EE at CMU, he wouldn't have found it "breezy" at all.

And by the way, although it's true that Khosla co-founded Sun Microsystems, he only played the entrepreneurial role; the technological stuff was done by two other founders, Bechtolsheim and Joy. And when he says that Indians have played a "leading" role in so many companies, that isn't quite what it seems either. The industry lobbyists, for instance, like to claim that Sun's SPARC chip was designed by an Indian, Agarwal, but the fact is that it was first designed by a team of graduate students at UC Berkeley, working under Prof. David Patterson. Sun then picked up the design and kept refining it over the years; Agarwal joined in somewhere in the middle. There have always been hundreds of people working on the chip at any given time, and NO ONE is indispensable. No COMPANY is indispensable either. So when these guys claim that Indians increased the net number of jobs in Silicon Valley through entrepreneurship, they are incorrect. If Indian firm X were not in Silicon Valley, the slack would have been taken up, either through the other firms being larger, or by other entrepreneurship.

I must say that the Infosys example rankled me, especially in the context of mentioning Sun Microsystems. I just learned recently that Sun often gets its main job applicants from Infosys, as H-1Bs, and interviews them specifically because they are cheaper than American applicants. And it is certainly possible that the Khosla himself is responsible for this Sun/Infosys connection. Ethnic hiring is very common in Silicon Valley--one sees whole divisions, or even whole companies, which are either all Indian or all Chinese or all Russian; this of course is no coincidence. Part of that is cronyism and part is nationalistic pride. The latter point is key. The Indians' pride at becoming so influential in the U.S. comes through loud and clear in this 60 Minutes piece. (Though you have to see the video to see Stahl's "Oh my gosh" fawning.)

I fully understand that, and can sympathize. Their feeling is "Here is India, the proverbial Sick Man of Asia, finally standing up with power," and one can't blame them for their pride. Again, good for them. However, it also leads to cronyism, as I said before, and the wearing of blinders. It leads to a mentality in which everyone is automatically "brilliant," etc. This is not good. I hope 60 Minutes will see fit to show the other side of the H-1B coin (as they did in the early 1990s). I think it's pretty clear that this embarrassingly overblown puff piece came as a result of some slick PR work by the Indian chauvinists and/or the industry lobbyists. It's sad that the AFL-CIO, an organization that does have the power and connections to be able to get 60 Minutes' attention on this issue, has never been willing to back up its criticism of the H-1B program with actual use of even a little bit of its resources.**

darkeddy

2003-01-18 15:15 | User Profile

Rban, I tire of explaining to you that I am not Jewish. Since when does one have to be Jewish to be a Zionist? Your response is pitiful.

Marcus Porcius Cato

2003-01-18 22:15 | User Profile

"We invented the sundial and the numeral zero"

He forgot to mention that some mulatto 'invented' peanut butter. Much more significant than Whitey's pitiable contributions of the creation of aqueducts, medicine, regenerative agriculture, metallurgy, ALL branches of elementary AND advanced mathematics, ALL the physical sciences, the linguistic disciplines, Klassische Musik, the harnessing of Electricity, the transistor, ...., ad infinitum. My G*d man, however did we get along before the advent of the allmighty wog/gook/jigger/Jew?

BTW "Inventing" zero is a bit like inventing breathing, eating, or walking. I'm glad to see that the mudsters are on the cusp of patenting some of these formidable "inventions" of theirs. From the demographics cum literacy rates promulgated by rbanowitz/urthy, it appears that these fetid fecund feculents would be better served if their estimable Dr. Dunga Din, er, Vhosla applied his not inconsiderable inventive genius to the field of birth control.

NativeExile

2003-01-19 00:21 | User Profile

> Break the bad news to your children gently.

Tell them the way 60 Minutes sees things:

Abandon all hope of working in Silicon Valley. Those jobs are reserved for the best and the brightest; the graduates of the Indian Institute of Technology**

Faust, So what's new? 60 Minutes, being the Jew-dominated propaganda organ of the Jew-owned CBS, will ALWAYS take the anti-White position. That's what it's there for. (Not that VDARE will ever DARE tell you that priamry fact, however.) The Hindus are just the dupes, tools, and golems of that agenda. And Rban's another one.

Roy Batty

2003-01-19 03:03 | User Profile

Nope, rban, never said I had a "buddy" that went to school with one of your heroes - but I have talked a few times with this gentleman that went to school at the same time as the aforementioned idol of the 60 Minutes Crowd. He doesn't think as hightly of this latest front man for the pro immigration crowd as 60 Minutes, obviously. He also DOESN'T work in IT. It's likely Khosla wouldn't either, or at least would have ended up in a different area of the tech world, if he had been such a bio-med genius - as he claims. If you are as involved with IT as you claim, you should know a lot about these people. More than most. Instead of just printing articles that fit your views on things. Hell, we can all find articles that suit our views, it's the preponderance of facts in each situation that determine truth, and the truth generally doesn't seem to be found in most info presented by "sources" like 60 Minutes. Yeah, rban, we're all silly. The idea of ZOG is clearly some manifestation of mental illness. Glad you are able to help us through the fog. (BTW - why would I or anyone else use info supplied by Khosla or his cronies? That's like asking 60 Minutes or the NYT for the opposing viewpoint, or the truth)

The remarks about Doerr are true, as he is the true political connection for these "clowns" that are playing the system at the moment.

Finally, NativeExile is correct in his assessment of the stand taken by 60 Minutes and any other mouth for the proganda machine.

Texas Dissident

2003-01-20 20:21 | User Profile

rban,

I, Texas Dissident, site owner and forum administrator, hereby declare that Indian Aryan Hindus are the smartest, most decent, most family-value oriented, best-looking and culturally sophisticated people on the planet.

There you go.

Will you give us some respite now?

weisbrot

2003-01-20 20:46 | User Profile

Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Jan 20 2003, 16:21 **

I, Texas Dissident, site owner and forum administrator, hereby declare that Indian Aryan Hindus are the smartest, most decent, most family-value oriented, best-looking and culturally sophisticated people on the planet.

**

And their recycled ancestors are at times quite tasty, despite the methane troubles and the four stomach thing.

martel

2003-01-21 05:28 | User Profile

Wintermute

If thats the Aryan view concerning the eating of cows I think I'll have to be a Semite on the subject ;)

weisbrot

2003-01-21 14:31 | User Profile

Originally posted by wintermute@Jan 21 2003, 00:14 **I ask you to ruminate on all of these facts before you make your next visit to the Outback Steakhouse.

**

Nosh at Outback? Don't think I cud, judging from the above.

Wish I'd known about that transcendence deal back in my cow tipping days. Rban's Aunt Aziza would have slept alot easier.

Mr.Wilson

2003-01-21 16:03 | User Profile

"60 Minutes:mainstream broadcasting's greatest fiasco" [url=http://www.ukar.org/60min.shtml]http://www.ukar.org/60min.shtml[/url]

Texas Dissident, Consider giving "rban" his own forum where Hindu and "Hindu-related" topics can be discussed exclusively.If he posts anywhere else at OD, immediately ban him and delete all his posts.

eric von zipper

2003-01-21 16:25 | User Profile

RBAN sure is a Johnny One Note. His unfunny running Hindu gag is starting to stink the way New Delhi does the minute you get off the plane. It's an "allright, who sliced the cheese?" kinda stink.

As for ITT, if a country with a billion people produces more gifted students than can be shoehorned into a freshman class at one University, that is hardly something to brag about.

And as for the excess ones going to prestigious American U's in place of deserving Catholic and protestant boys from flyover country. That is a function of many things, none of which reflect well on the schools, but primarily of the following:

1) These southern Indian coolie boys gladly ante up FULL TUITION WITH NO FINANCIAL AID. That is the main reason American schools want them. They literally buy their way in. And it is a stinking shame.

skemper

2003-01-21 20:51 | User Profile

Originally posted by eric von zipper@Jan 21 2003, 10:25 ** RBAN sure is a Johnny One Note. His unfunny running Hindu gag is starting to stink the way New Delhi does the minute you get off the plane. It's an "allright, who sliced the cheese?" kinda stink.

As for ITT, if a country with a billion people produces more gifted students than can be shoehorned into a freshman class at one University, that is hardly something to brag about.

And as for the excess ones going to prestigious American U's in place of deserving Catholic and protestant boys from flyover country. That is a function of many things, none of which reflect well on the schools, but primarily of the following:

1) These southern Indian coolie boys gladly ante up FULL TUITION WITH NO FINANCIAL AID. That is the main reason American schools want them. They literally buy their way in. And it is a stinking shame. **

Eric,

Who pays for the tuition of all these Indian coolies? India is a poor country. It can't be all rich parents. It has to be the government.

Pim

2003-01-22 05:55 | User Profile

A Haiku-ku that's a Haiku, of more than 17 syllables?

This one, this Haiku-ku is entitled: "Ode to rban's Most Recent Charica-caricature"

*Rasham-Rashambo's chrystal clear Objects...

Oooops, here comes a sacred cow;

Right through the livingroom...*

This Haiku-ku is entitled: "Ode to George"

*I learn, therefore...

I teach, and drink,

And repent...and repent and drink

And teach,

And learn...and eat steak...Hmmm*

George, I kid.

Your ol'buddy,

Pim-wheel :D

Mr.Wilson

2003-01-22 20:16 | User Profile

"Today's Letter:A Reader Tells Leslie Stahl About Indians" [url=http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_012103.htm]http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_012103.htm[/url]

darkeddy

2003-01-23 00:06 | User Profile

Of course many white nationalists care what happens in India. We take particular note of irrational behavior that harms both white Americans and the people of India, because this suggests that the practise of 3rd world immigration isn't designed to help 3rd worlders, but is rather just a vengeful attempt to destroy the West.

Roger Bannister

2003-01-23 05:14 | User Profile

Originally posted by rban@Jan 21 2003, 22:24 ** What I love is the US practice of doling out scholarships ONLY to the best students...regardless of nationality. So many scholarships are won by Indian students while American kids go without. Just becuase they're not as bright. God, I love America! Have a look:

India tops US varsity enrollments

India has emerged as the leading country in terms of the number of students going to the US for higher education, for the year 2001-2002. It has surpassed China and now accounts for 11.5 per cent of international students enrolled in American universities. A record 66,836 Indians came to study in the United States last academic year, overtaking China (63,211) which occupied the top place for the past several years. Indians constitute 11.5 per cent of the nearly 583,000 foreign students who came to the US to study in the year 2001-2002. **

ITT is a fantastic institution. That's why India is the most advanced country on earth. Unparalleled scientific achievement coupled with a billion people living harmoniously in the most sanitary, futuristic environment on earth. Not.

The bargain basement, cheap labor Indians are "prized" because they speak English, unlike most of the Chinese who speak "pidgin" English. They are also even cheaper to employ than the Chinese. Their SAT math scores are lower than those of East Asians on average, but again, they do speak English. Only Jews have a higher math average than the East Asians, though many don't like to hear it. Sure, White individuals usually have the highest overall scores, but in terms of averages, Joe Sixpack's kids don't put in much work. Does anyone think that with the H1B crappola again up for a vote, the 60 Minutes piece was by coincidence? One look at India, or at U.S. neighborhoods inhabited by Indians tells you all you need to know. They are the IT equivalent of Mexicans. A little smarter, but with worse personal hygiene than the mestizos. With American education purposely dumbed down, all the better for the govt. to encourage industry to phase Whites out of another area of the economy.

It's best to do what a few others have suggested, take a look at what all these "minority" imports have done in terms of advancing science, of inventions. Not much. But I guess the elites don't want much. They just want more easily controlled, docile dark peoples that have never demonstrated the ability to battle hostile governments.

Rban, you write this stuff more like you're trying to sell it, rather than believe it.

Roger Bannister

2003-01-23 05:59 | User Profile

One other matter, rban, beyond all the sarcasm flying about. No one seems to mention the daisy-chain immigration, not you, George, Il Ragno, Roy, Wintermute. No one. For every half bright Indian rolling in to work at Sun or Radio Shack, we have untold numbers of their less capable relatives arriving on Sunder's coattails. At our expense. This is one of the major problems of immigration, and it isn't talked about enough. Think about the effect amnesty has when daisy-chain immigration is factored into the equation.

il ragno

2003-01-23 20:33 | User Profile

I may have been remiss in ignoring this topic, Roger, but Chuck Pearson addresses it, and quite pungently. It's re Orientals as opposed to Hindus, but the principle's the same.

** [color=blue]Christmas morning horror in Aurora, Illinois[/color].

"Sungnam Lisowski took a handgun and shot husband John P. Lisowski, 46, in the head shortly before 8 a.m. She then shot her daughters, Christine, 12, and Vickie, 14, in a second-floor bedroom...[she then] shot herself" and the only one to die was Mr. Broad-Minded -- who undoubtedly thought he was getting a compliant, bowing maid and pillow-gal. We've seen first-hand how the China Doll situation can get out of control really fast, with the one bewildered White man in the house acting as banker, airport chauffeur, hotelier, immigration counselor, and babysitter to all of his Oriental wife's myriad relatives -- with more arriving by the day. Your modest residence becomes a sort of Ellis Island, a "resource" for, say, the "Filipino community." The face reddens! The platform shoe stamps! "She come here! She my sista!" is the shriek -- and no Moo Goo Gai Pan, if you know what we mean, for you until you comply. Imagine sitting at your kitchen table writing out checks as a group of strange women point at you, heatedly discuss you in a language you don't understand. Imagine tripping over piles of shoes outside your door, and entering to the cloying starch-steam of boiling rice, the teeth-on-edge stench of fish sauce and garlic -- the high-pitched, knife-in-the-ear yabble of vehement argument in Tagalog. Imagine driving all over town trying to find a bottle of Japanese aspirin because the American product "no wuck." Imagine living with someone who constantly complains that they want to "go home" -- to a place 12,000 miles away. No, no, no. Your children's race is not something for you to casually blend as though you were trying to invent a new mixed drink. You have no right to conduct vain, self-important little experiments at making novel and amusing shades of Beanie Babies, mere Precious Moments to collect, line up on a shelf for ignorant housewives to gush "So cute" over. *If you are White, it is because your parents were racist. ***

Dan Dare

2003-01-24 03:50 | User Profile

Sir Roger B:

One other matter, rban, beyond all the sarcasm flying about. No one seems to mention the daisy-chain immigration, not you, George, Il Ragno, Roy, Wintermute.

Along with workplace enforcement, eliminating chain migration is the most urgently required anti-immigration legislation.

There is a notorious study done in Oxford, England in 1994. This showed that the 2000-odd Pakistani popoulation in that city all resulted from two chains started by two men who arrived in the late 50s.

How many times has this scenario been replicated in the Eurosphere in the past 40-50 years? Legion.

Mr.Wilson

2003-01-24 04:56 | User Profile

A newswire photo of a Hindu who won't be immigrating to America: [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030122/168/33f7k.html&e=8]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../33f7k.html&e=8[/url]

jeffersonian

2003-01-27 22:44 | User Profile

**Why are you people such hypocrites? Restrict your complaints, please, to Indians are bad because they take jobs away from Americans. **

You have gone too far. This is simply not true. Inidans are bad because they take jobs from Americans AND they never give the right change for a Slurpee.

All that ITT education and still can't count. :rolleyes:

George

2003-01-31 06:51 | User Profile

Originally posted by jeffersonian@Jan 27 2003, 22:44 ** > **Why are you people such hypocrites? Restrict your complaints, please, to Indians are bad because they take jobs away from Americans. **

You have gone too far. This is simply not true. Inidans are bad because they take jobs from Americans AND they never give the right change for a Slurpee.

All that ITT education and still can't count. :rolleyes: **

Who is thisth... bith-ch... she's making me slurr again...