← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · edward gibbon
Thread ID: 4352 | Posts: 12 | Started: 2003-01-07
2003-01-07 17:54 | User Profile
As far as I know the below is the only place on the internet where they are written. http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/prvisit.h...THE%20PROTOCOLS
On Authenticity:> **Then who did write the Protocols? We may never know that, but it seems improbable that either a mystic or a bigoted Russian policeman could have come up with an analysis so penetrating, and so unfailingly prophetic. "Spurious" the document may be, historically speaking. But as anyone familiar with current events will instantly recognize, many passages in it show a remarkable prescience. **
On Politics:> **The political has nothing in common with the moral . . . Our right lies in force . . . Violence must be the principle and a cunning make-believe the rule if we are to bring all governments into subjection to our super government."
"The French Revolution was wholly the work of our hands. . . We were the first to cry among the masses the words Liberty, Equality, Fraternity', since many times repeated by stupid poll-parrots. This helped us to destroy the natural aristocracy of the goyim, on whose ruins we have set up the aristocracy of our educated class headed by the aristocracy of money. . . Our subordinate agents are boring away at the last remnants of goy authority, striving to overthrow all established forms of order. . .
"We have advertised sedition-mongers as martyrs for the common good, though none will be permitted under our rule. This has brought many liberals into the ranks of our 'cattle'. .
"Having used this freedom-shibboleth,we shall erase that word from the lexicon; when we come into our kingdom. Freedom of the Press, of speech, of association and conscience must disappear forever . . We define freedom as the right to do that which the law allows; this serves our aim very well, for we shall make the laws!"
"For our purpose, wars must not result in territorial gain, the true battlefield will be the economic. Our international rights will then wipe out national rights."
"We need an intensified centralization of government to facilitate our control . . . We must so ferment things that the peoples of the world will eventually cry out for one global government. . . Useless changes of government to which we instigated the goyim in undermining their state structures will have so disheartened the people that they will suffer serfdom under us rather than go backward. . . One-third of our subjects will keep the rest under observation from a sense of duty. . . The goyim are a flock of sheep and we are their wolves.
"Though we have sacrificed many of our people in pursuit of the goal of world-government, it has paid us. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand goyim. **
On Propaganda:> **Our aim must be to debilitate the public mind by continually fomenting contradictory opinions and thus distract it from serious reflections which might cause resistance to our aims. . . Let the goyim be bewildered, for there is nothing so dangerous as personal initiative!"
"So that the true meaning of things shall not strike the goyim until the proper time, we shall mask it under an alleged ardent desire to serve the working classes. . If any States raise a protest against us, it is only pro forma and by our direction, for their anti-Semitism is indispensable to us for the management of our lesser brethren.
"The Press is already in our hands. Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. This we have already attained in large part through our control of those agencies by which all news items must pass. . . We shall put out our own journals, disguised as coming from elsewhere so that readers will in effect be following the flag we hang out for them; these will even be allowed to feign attacks on us, to convince people they are reading a free press.... Let them discuss themselves silly!"
"Distraction is one of our principal aims -- through amusements gambling and games of all kinds. . . have we not very successfully turned the brainless heads of the goyim with 'progress' a fallacious idea except in terms of material invention, for truth is one and there can be no place in it for progress? "Progress" serves to obscure the truth so that none may know it except ourselves, the Chosen of God, its guardians."
"When we come into our Kingdom, it will be undesirable that there should exist any religion other than ours. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief . . . We have long taken care to discredit the priesthood of the goyim, whose influence falls lower day by day. But no one will ever bring our faith under discussion from its true point of view, since only we shall know that." **
On Education:> **"We have bemused and corrupted the youth of the goyim by rearing them in principles and theories we know to be false.
"To destroy every collectivism except ours, we shall emasculate the universities. . . banning classical history and erasing from the memory of the goyim all historical facts unfavorable to us."
"To discourage independent thinking, our subjects will be schooled only for the occupations allotted to them. . . Students shall not busy themselves with questions of polity in which even their own fathers never had any power of thought."
"We shall choose goy administrators on their capacity for servile obedience. :" **
On Economics:> **"Capital must be free to establish monopolies so that its leaders shall have political force."
"By centralizing in our own hands the money-power of the world, we can throw all goyim into the ranks of the proletariat . . The goy aristocracy benefited by having their people healthy and strong, we are interested in just the opposite."
"Hunger creates the right of capital to rule the worker. By want and envy and the hatred it engenders we shall move the mob. . . This hatred will be further magnified by the effect of an economic crisis, which will stop dealings on the changes and bring industry to a standstill. By creating this crisis we shall throw upon the street whole mobs of workers simultaneously in all the countries of Europe."
"We shall surround our government with a whole world of economists, bankers and millionaires, because in substance everything will be settled on the basis of figures."
"We must tear out of goyim heads the very principle of Godhead, replacing it with arithmetical calculation and material needs . . We must put industry on a speculative basis, for in that is our strength.
" Economic crises have been produced by us through the goyim by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation Huge pools of capital have stagnated, forcing States to borrow from them and thus become their bond-slaves.. . in twenty years, a State which has borrowed money at 5% has paid the whole sum in interest without reducing the debt. . . The State is thus forced to impoverish its masses in order to pay off rich foreigners. Why could those stupid goyim not have taken the money they needed from their own people.
"Goy governments could play tricks with internal loans but not the external, for they know that we shall demand all our money back." **
I am aware that Protocols of the Elders of Zion has been dismissed for many years as a forgery. If true, I must ask who wrote this piece of work.
2003-01-07 19:06 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 7 2003, 17:54 ** As far as I know the below is the only place on the internet where they are written. [url=http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/prvisit.htm#VISITING%20]http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/prvisit.h...THE%20PROTOCOLS[/url]
On Authenticity:> **Then who did write the Protocols? We may never know that, but it seems improbable that either a mystic or a bigoted Russian policeman could have come up with an analysis so penetrating, and so unfailingly prophetic. "Spurious" the document may be, historically speaking. But as anyone familiar with current events will instantly recognize, many passages in it show a remarkable prescience. **
On Politics:> **The political has nothing in common with the moral . . . Our right lies in force . . . Violence must be the principle and a cunning make-believe the rule if we are to bring all governments into subjection to our super government."
"The French Revolution was wholly the work of our hands. . . We were the first to cry among the masses the words Liberty, Equality, Fraternity', since many times repeated by stupid poll-parrots. This helped us to destroy the natural aristocracy of the goyim, on whose ruins we have set up the aristocracy of our educated class headed by the aristocracy of money. . . Our subordinate agents are boring away at the last remnants of goy authority, striving to overthrow all established forms of order. . .
"We have advertised sedition-mongers as martyrs for the common good, though none will be permitted under our rule. This has brought many liberals into the ranks of our 'cattle'. .
"Having used this freedom-shibboleth,we shall erase that word from the lexicon; when we come into our kingdom. Freedom of the Press, of speech, of association and conscience must disappear forever . . We define freedom as the right to do that which the law allows; this serves our aim very well, for we shall make the laws!"
"For our purpose, wars must not result in territorial gain, the true battlefield will be the economic. Our international rights will then wipe out national rights."
"We need an intensified centralization of government to facilitate our control . . . We must so ferment things that the peoples of the world will eventually cry out for one global government. . . Useless changes of government to which we instigated the goyim in undermining their state structures will have so disheartened the people that they will suffer serfdom under us rather than go backward. . . One-third of our subjects will keep the rest under observation from a sense of duty. . . The goyim are a flock of sheep and we are their wolves.
"Though we have sacrificed many of our people in pursuit of the goal of world-government, it has paid us. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand goyim. **
On Propaganda:> **Our aim must be to debilitate the public mind by continually fomenting contradictory opinions and thus distract it from serious reflections which might cause resistance to our aims. . . Let the goyim be bewildered, for there is nothing so dangerous as personal initiative!"
"So that the true meaning of things shall not strike the goyim until the proper time, we shall mask it under an alleged ardent desire to serve the working classes. . If any States raise a protest against us, it is only pro forma and by our direction, for their anti-Semitism is indispensable to us for the management of our lesser brethren.
"The Press is already in our hands. Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. This we have already attained in large part through our control of those agencies by which all news items must pass. . . We shall put out our own journals, disguised as coming from elsewhere so that readers will in effect be following the flag we hang out for them; these will even be allowed to feign attacks on us, to convince people they are reading a free press.... Let them discuss themselves silly!"
"Distraction is one of our principal aims -- through amusements gambling and games of all kinds. . . have we not very successfully turned the brainless heads of the goyim with 'progress' a fallacious idea except in terms of material invention, for truth is one and there can be no place in it for progress? "Progress" serves to obscure the truth so that none may know it except ourselves, the Chosen of God, its guardians."
"When we come into our Kingdom, it will be undesirable that there should exist any religion other than ours. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief . . . We have long taken care to discredit the priesthood of the goyim, whose influence falls lower day by day. But no one will ever bring our faith under discussion from its true point of view, since only we shall know that." **
On Education:> **"We have bemused and corrupted the youth of the goyim by rearing them in principles and theories we know to be false.
"To destroy every collectivism except ours, we shall emasculate the universities. . . banning classical history and erasing from the memory of the goyim all historical facts unfavorable to us."
"To discourage independent thinking, our subjects will be schooled only for the occupations allotted to them. . . Students shall not busy themselves with questions of polity in which even their own fathers never had any power of thought."
"We shall choose goy administrators on their capacity for servile obedience. :" **
On Economics:> **"Capital must be free to establish monopolies so that its leaders shall have political force."
"By centralizing in our own hands the money-power of the world, we can throw all goyim into the ranks of the proletariat . . The goy aristocracy benefited by having their people healthy and strong, we are interested in just the opposite."
"Hunger creates the right of capital to rule the worker. By want and envy and the hatred it engenders we shall move the mob. . . This hatred will be further magnified by the effect of an economic crisis, which will stop dealings on the changes and bring industry to a standstill. By creating this crisis we shall throw upon the street whole mobs of workers simultaneously in all the countries of Europe."
"We shall surround our government with a whole world of economists, bankers and millionaires, because in substance everything will be settled on the basis of figures."
"We must tear out of goyim heads the very principle of Godhead, replacing it with arithmetical calculation and material needs . . We must put industry on a speculative basis, for in that is our strength.
" Economic crises have been produced by us through the goyim by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation Huge pools of capital have stagnated, forcing States to borrow from them and thus become their bond-slaves.. . in twenty years, a State which has borrowed money at 5% has paid the whole sum in interest without reducing the debt. . . The State is thus forced to impoverish its masses in order to pay off rich foreigners. Why could those stupid goyim not have taken the money they needed from their own people.
"Goy governments could play tricks with internal loans but not the external, for they know that we shall demand all our money back." **
I am aware that Protocols of the Elders of Zion has been dismissed for many years as a forgery. If true, I must ask who wrote this piece of work. **
Good question?
I don't know who wrote it...however whoever did, must have conceived as well of the current Monetary 'Reserve' System, otherwise known as the "'Federal Reserve'"... THAT at the macrocosmic level... Murray Rothbard, unmasked it convincingly to anyone with a brain, some years ago (but they were all on the Enron, and tech-Stock bandwagon-?-) At the quasi-microcosmic, i.e. level of the 50 States... headlines in allegedly goyim papers read like this (quote): "States destitue, desperate" ... translation--I suppose as per the context of the Above... "Bond Slaves Can't Repay Principal after years of Interest payments: why didn't they just take money, according to the above from the vast majority of their own goyim?" That's at least a contextual translation, in terms of the above Protocols...I suppose. I don't know!
Well perhaps Murray would say... probably because all of the Rich, including the Goyim Rich, don't have to pay taxes when buying things like tax-free Municipal Bonds-?- We're all on the Road to Serfdom, though perhaps we in the proletariat will enjoy a last laugh, when the Goyim Rich minority, are BOOTED there as well? All of this may be fiction of course, or more fiction than not, though I'm exercising my right to free speech in commenting hypothetically within the context of the above... that Is while my right to freedom of speech at least Lasts, a bit longer... or perhaps it will just go on and on and on... that would be good!!! Long as when we borrow's money, boss we get to pay the principal, right... Or don't borrow, better to tax a bit, if really necessary???
Yeah, no, DITTO ed gibbon, who in tarnation wrote the above Protocols? Just seems like almost a blueprint of the present, or no? Perhaps not? I don't know, to be candid...I'm only in the ranks...I gets to get sacrificed boss for the Sleazier, Good... But hasn't that always been (this) world, or no? I'm not G-d, I'll tell you I really don't know... but what's really spooky, is them that "thinks" they're God or knows the unknowable, and writes stuff like say the above? WOW... Or maybe it's tongue in cheek, and they, feel they're not really under G-d? Either way... it's spoooooooooky....... no? Boss, is we all on the way to Soyent Green? spooooooooooky.......
2003-01-07 20:42 | User Profile
.......................................................... Of the Protocols themselves little need be said in the way of introduction. The book in which they are embodied was published by Sergyei Nilus in Russia in 1905. A copy of this is in the British Museum bearing the date of its reception, August 10, 1906. All copies that were known to exist in Russia were destroyed in the Kerensky regime, and under his successors the possession of a copy by anyone in Soviet land was a crime sufficient to ensure the owner's of being shot on sight. The fact is in itself sufficient proof of the genuineness of the Protocols. The Jewish journals, of course, say that they are a forgery, leaving it to be understood that Professor Nilus, who embodied them in a work of his own, had concocted them for his own purposes.
Mr. Henry Ford, in an interview published in the New York WORLD, February 17th, 1921, put the case for Nilus tersely and convincingly thus:
"The only statement I care to make about the PROTOCOLS is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. THEY FIT IT NOW."
[url=http://www.abbc.com/protocols/indexen.htm]http://www.abbc.com/protocols/indexen.htm[/url]
2003-01-08 19:52 | User Profile
I was going to selectively quote from Gibbon's post, but George's habit of needlessly xeroxing the entire thread-opener kinda nips that idea in the bud.
So a general comment or two instead. I've always thought the PROTOCOLS were bunk. Not only bunk but obvious, transparent bunk. Look at the wording throughout this document: it reads like Happy Hour at a supervillain convention. Sentences like "we have bemused and corrupted the youth of the goyim by rearing them in principles and theories we know to be false..." is only missing the coda "...on account of we suck and we're, like, totally evil. And now...a toast...to human misery!" But evil men among their fellows don't think of themselves as evil but as combatants against a common enemy, and would never ever phrase such sentiments in this kind of language. If the PROTOCOLS were bonafide, the wording would stress and re-stress the vile and horrific nature of the goyim. These passages portray hand-rubbing khazars high-fiving each other in satanic glee; the pov here is that of a horrified gentile aping an authentic Jewish document in order to awaken his kinsmen to Jewish power and perfidy.
Moreover, it's BECAUSE this reads expressly as though it were designed for a gentile audience that I can't help but dismiss it. Jewish texts designed for Jewish eyes have a tendency to never see the gentile light of day except in heavily bowdlerized or sanitized or poorly-translated form. (Do you have any idea how difficult an undertaking finding an accurate English translation of the Talmud actually is?) But the PROTOCOLS have been kicking around goyishe bookshelves almost from the date they were "written"....highly uncharacteristic for a ingroup as reflexively clannish and insular as the Hebrews.
Thirdly, Jews don't 'amend' their Constitution...they amend ours. While I believe much of what's in the PROTOCOLS to be an accurate reflection of Jewish goals and tactics, I also believe that the vast majority of their marching orders date back millenia and are committed to the minds and memories of Jews at a young age (if not encoded in their DNA). The PROTOCOLS has always read [to me] like the work of a philoSemitic gentile who had a change of heart/racial awakening and was determined to alert other gentiles to long range political & cultural Jewish objectives in as dramatic (and dramatized) a method possible. Please, there's enough Jewish evil extant in your average SPLC/ADL fundraising dinner, and 99% of it is couched in progressive, feel-good tikkunisms - which are scarier by far than the Beelzebubbian braggadoccio of the PROTOCOLS.
2003-01-08 20:02 | User Profile
il ragno is probably right. Nobody would frame their intentions so baldly. A very old rumor says they were vetted by Freemasons to create a specific disturbance in Europe but it got out of hand. That seems logical; masons have been known to think that way.
Check out a copy of Stephen Knight's book The Brotherhood about masonic shenanigans in Britain. Anyone who's read MacDonald's Culture of Critique will find some wonderfully spooky similarities.
2003-01-08 22:10 | User Profile
"I was going to selectively quote from Gibbon's post, but George's habit of needlessly xeroxing the entire thread-opener kinda nips that idea in the bud." -il ragon
I never needlessly "cannon" or "xerox" a post that's been Up for a while...dip, only out of courtesy, WHEN I post right after a good one like ed gibbon's went Up... even if I agree with you & also Ragnar's post above... I Wish not to seem to be pre-empting what was posted just previously, so I'm courteous and reproduce it before any of my remarks... Il ragon, are you saying you don't 'believe' the vast majority of those who visit this site, only read the latest post, schmuck?
It doesn't matter who 'wrote' the Protocols... long as they're DENOUNCED by all...in what they aim...
We live today in a World wherein we can't AFFORD conclusions in Advance... there's that old humorous but accurate saying more often than not: "from every conclusion comes an 'analysis'."
...
Ragnar, il Rag-on... you related? No conclusions here, just Asking... it might even be 'good'-?-!
2003-01-09 19:03 | User Profile
**On Authenticity:QUOTE Then who did write the Protocols? We may never know that, but it seems improbable that either a mystic or a bigoted Russian policeman could have come up with an analysis so penetrating, and so unfailingly prophetic. "Spurious" the document may be, historically speaking. But as anyone familiar with current events will instantly recognize, many passages in it show a remarkable prescience. **
My question remains - who wrote this? Does anybody have any ideas? I feel certain Jews did not.
2003-01-09 19:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 9 2003, 19:03 ** > On Authenticity:QUOTE ÃÂ Then who did write the Protocols? We may never know that, but it seems improbable that either a mystic or a bigoted Russian policeman could have come up with an analysis so penetrating, and so unfailingly prophetic. "Spurious" the document may be, historically speaking. But as anyone familiar with current events will instantly recognize, many passages in it show a remarkable prescience. ÃÂ ** **
My question remains - who wrote this? Does anybody have any ideas? I feel certain Jews did not. **
My understanding is that they were put together by Sergei Nilius, a monk and an operative for the Russian Okhrana. They were roughly based on a nineteenth-century satire called "Machiavelli and Montesque in Hell."
Best, P
2003-01-11 22:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by Polichinello@Jan 9 2003, 19:39 ** > Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 9 2003, 19:03 ** > **On Authenticity:QUOTE ÃÂ Then who did write the Protocols? We may never know that, but it seems improbable that either a mystic or a bigoted Russian policeman could have come up with an analysis so penetrating, and so unfailingly prophetic. "Spurious" the document may be, historically speaking. But as anyone familiar with current events will instantly recognize, many passages in it show a remarkable prescience. ÃÂ **
My question remains - who wrote this? Does anybody have any ideas? I feel certain Jews did not. **
My understanding is that they were put together by Sergei Nilius, a monk and an operative for the Russian Okhrana. They were roughly based on a nineteenth-century satire called "Machiavelli and Montesque in Hell."
Best, P **
Oh, no at the risk of Offending il rag-On, I've quoted Mr. "P" and his nemesis ed gibbon...
Must have been Satire... what isn't since the French (at least) Revolution? But like I said, anyone Actually read, Machiavelli? He ain't in "Hell" in my opinion... folks who never understood context...are (in hell?) typically... living or, who knows-?-dead?
I must be, myself an American, I figure... (an admirable American trait) I always vote for the worthy underdog... if it was Mr. P., since he's pretty worthy in my opinion, I'd route for him; since today it's ed gibbon, since he's pretty worthy, I route for him... NEAR opposites... that's what it may take to keep the world on its axis...
...a little bit of honesty, & some approximate balance...
2003-01-12 18:44 | User Profile
George
I must be, myself an American, I figure... (an admirable American trait) I always vote for the worthy underdog... if it was Mr. P., since he's pretty worthy in my opinion, I'd route for him; since today it's ed gibbon, since he's pretty worthy, I route for him... NEAR opposites... that's what it may take to keep the world on its axis...
...a little bit of honesty, & some approximate balance... **
Since when did I become the underdog?
2003-01-12 19:11 | User Profile
Around the same time you became my 'nemesis', EG.
Sounds like the ripple's doing all of George's talking for him again.
2003-01-12 23:05 | User Profile
The authenticity of the Protocols is really irrelevant and unimportant. The question is whether they reflect reality accurately, i.e., whether the modus operandi described therein is descriptive of actuality. I think fundamentally that it is.
There is no Jewish "conspiracy" since conspiracies are supposedly secret. The opposition and antagonism between the Jewish World-View and the Christian World-View is open, above board and natural as can be.
Let me recommend the author Fr. Denis Fahey (d. 1954) and the book "The Jews" by Hilaire Belloc. Both can be found easily on the Web.