← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Sertorius
Thread ID: 4339 | Posts: 23 | Started: 2003-01-06
2003-01-06 15:00 | User Profile
January 5, 2003
N. Korea plays Bush like a fiddle
'Dear Leader' Kim knows the Americans would rather pay than fight
By ERIC MARGOLIS -- Contributing Foreign Editor
This column has warned since 1993 of the danger posed by North Korea's odious Stalinist regime and its nuclear weapons. But lately, we confess a measure of amusement, even sneaking professional admiration, for North Korea's "Dear Leader," Kim Jong-il, for playing a really mean game of Pyongyang bluff poker.
Although he resembles a hostile alien in a Japanese science fiction film, and rules over a bankrupt nation suffering mass starvation, Kim has thrown the mighty United States on the defensive, terrified his neighbours, churned up anti-American sentiment in South Korea and exposed the illogic, hypocrisy and contradictions of President George Bush's rationale for war against Iraq.
By revealing his nuclear arsenal and kicking out UN inspectors, Kim Jong-il was in effect telling Bush, "You want a war? Try one against a real opponent, not almost defenseless Iraq. We've got nukes, germs, poison gas, missiles galore and a million tough troops. Remember your 'axis of evil' tirade? Here we are, the Asian third of the axis. Come and get us."
Double standard Clearly flustered, President Bush responded to Kim's dare by first hinting at war, then backing down and calling for negotiations - the same president who categorically refuses to negotiate anything with Iraq. Bush's embarrassing double standard over Iraq and Korea has provoked derision around the world.
Kim's defiance has two objectives.
First, capitalize on rising anti-American sentiment among young South Koreans, who do not remember how the United States and UN forces saved their nation from the murderous ferocity of the North Korean communists in 1950. South Koreans have long resented extra-territorial rights enjoyed by the 37,000 U.S. troops permanently based in their nation. The recent acquittal of American soldiers who accidentally killed two Korean schoolgirls triggered large anti-U.S. riots in Seoul and helped elect new president Roh Moo-hyuan, who broke a long-held taboo by daring to question the continued presence of American forces in Korea.
South Koreans are extremely patriotic, prickly people. Their long political and cultural humiliation by Japan has produced a national thirst for international status and esteem.
Many young Koreans see their governments, past and present, as too accommodating to U.S. interests. By contrast, they regard the Stalinist regime in Pyongyang as the standard-bearer of Korean nationalism, and the force that will unify divided Korea and "liberate" it from American and Japanese influence. Koreans are delighted when they watch the hated Japanese quail in fear before the threat of Kim's missiles, about 200 of which are targeted on Japan and U.S. bases there.
Kim's second objective is to extort money from the U.S., South Korea and Japan by using his nuclear weapons as bargaining chips. According to Pentagon estimates, a war against North Korea will require 650,000 U.S. troops and could cost 250,000 American casualties.
Kim knows the Americans would rather pay than fight. Since the Vietnam debacle, the U.S. has warred only against small nations with little or no ability to defend themselves: Grenada, Panama, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan. "Dear Leader" Kim chose his time well, knowing that U.S. claims it can fight both Iraq and North Korea at the same time are exaggerated. If Bush persists in his obsession to invade Iraq, he will likely have to secretly buy off dangerous North Korea.
As for nervous South Koreans, they fear the Bush administration's so far inept, confused handling of the crisis might spark a war in which South Korea would suffer enormously. U.S. threats to attack North Korea's nuclear installations, Pyongyang has made clear, will result in a massive conventional, chemical and even nuclear bombardment of the South Korean capital, Seoul, home of 10.3 million people.
Not surprisingly, South Korea urges patient negotiations and caution.
Japan is watching with dismay and trepidation, furious at North Korea for past kidnappings of Japanese students, but fearful of provoking North Korea which, many Japanese believe, would gleefully exact nuclear revenge on Japan. Tokyo is quite happy with the status quo of a divided Korea. A united Korea would challenge Japan for primacy in North Asia and present a major military and industrial threat. Behind closed doors, Japanese defence officials are urging the crash construction of an anti-missile system and even production of nuclear weapons. Japan could fabricate about a dozen nuclear weapons in less than three months.
A big brother China just denounced Bush's menaces against North Korea as "hawkish and dangerous." Historically, China is big brother to Korea, but has always respected Korean independence. When the great Japanese warlord, Hideyoshi, ordered his Samurai armies to invade Korea in 1592, China sent armies across the Yalu River that helped drive the Japanese from the peninsula. In a remarkably similar campaign, Chinese armies again went into Korea in late 1950, this time to fight the Americans.
Beijing views North Korea as an ally and buffer against Japan and the U.S. China has made clear it will support Kim Jong-il, though urging him to restrain his nuclear gasconading. Any major U.S. attack on North Korea could mean war with China. Russia also supports North Korea.
The macho Bush administration, suddenly faced by a real and dangerous opponent in North Korea, clearly does not know what to do - except bomb Iraq. Eric can be reached by e-mail at margolis@foreigncorrespondent.com.
The U.S. could have been a hero in the early `90s by bringing everyone home. The Cold War had ended and the U.S. would have undone some of the damage done by incompetent "leaders." Instead, our criminal "leaders" are doing everything possible to try to make us one of the most reviled countries in history.
Bring the 2nd Inf. Division home and don`t stop there. Bring all the troops home from Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.
Screw Israel and the Neo-conic delusions of grandeuer...
2003-01-06 19:02 | User Profile
Sertorius
I believe the mother of the original Kim was a rapture type of Christian educated by Americans. Her son took his beliefs from Marx and crucified his country. The Japanese and Chinese should be the major players here.
Eric Margolis as a Canadian volunteered and fought in Vietnam as an infantryman. Recently he thought the defeat of Max Cleland by the draft-dodging cowardly Saxby Chambliss (order correct?) to be the most shameful act he ever witnessed. He thought this flag-waving patriot to be a disgrace and chastised the voters in your neck of the woods.
2003-01-06 19:49 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 6 2003, 19:02 ** I believe the mother of the original Kim was a rapture type of Christian educated by Americans... **
Good reminder how Asians -- not just Koreans -- owe the West bigtime for our wonderful culture and philosophy. Pol Pot went to Paris and learned socialism, with which he murdered a third of his fellow Cambodians later on. If Asians are keeping score, we're in trouble.
2003-01-06 22:36 | User Profile
Edward,
Thanks for that about Margolis. I didnt know that Margolis served in Viet Nam. My respect for him is even greater than prevously. He is a sensible writer. I have heard the same story about Kim Il Sungs mother as well. I wonder if it is true?
Ragnar,
Not only can we have Pol Pot, but Ho Chi Minh and Comrade Chou En Lai too. I`m not sure, but I think Mao may have been in Paris as well.
2003-01-06 23:32 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ragnar@Jan 6 2003, 19:49 > Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 6 2003, 19:02 ** I believe the mother of the original Kim was a rapture type of Christian educated by Americans... **
Good reminder how Asians -- not just Koreans -- owe the West bigtime for our wonderful culture and philosophy. Pol Pot went to Paris and learned socialism, with which he murdered a third of his fellow Cambodians later on. If Asians are keeping score, we're in trouble.**
Ragnar, In addition to what you rightly say about Pol Pot, he was also motivated by ethnic resentment against the Vietnamese. Much of his animus against urban society and educated elites stems from the fact that ethnic Vietnamese were over-represented among well educated urbanites in Cambodia at the time. (Superficially ideological conflicts often turn out to have an ethnic basis, which is often overlooked by those who would rather not see it).
2003-01-06 23:53 | User Profile
Leveller> **In addition to what you rightly say about Pol Pot, he was also motivated by ethnic resentment against the Vietnamese. Much of his animus against urban society and educated elites stems from the fact that ethnic Vietnamese were over-represented among well educated urbanites in Cambodia at the time. **
The Vietnamese had settled along the Mekong River, some of the most fertile land in Cambodia. The Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia was not motivated by humanitarianism, but by concerns for their food supply. Sometime in the not too distant future when their domestic needs require more food, the Vietnamese will once more invade and conquer. After this conquest they will not return the land, but keep it for themselves. National needs will trump rhetoric and expressions of brotherhood.
2003-01-07 04:06 | User Profile
It's my experience, Asians do not keep score when it comes to human life, Ragnar. My experience is their imbalance is in behalf of the group, not so as to enhance the individuality of its members, in that context, rather to obliterate it. The West's imbalance on the other hand is to overemphasize member's of the group's individuality so as to subsequently mistake them as 'individuals'... apart from the reality of their group. HOWEVER like Easterners or Asians have grabbed from the West as you pointed out (all people do this including us), what was useful, when it served them to do so...Ragnar, ironically your Own worry, they'll "keep score"... is something they'll note... and use perhaps against the West as a 'card' if enough westerners start to think or 'believe', they've also started "keeping score" where human life is concerned, since then, it will have become ironically due to your Western projection, something useful to feign. It might be something sad to the West, they don't keep score, however, for better or worse, it's not so sad to themselves. (They know that.) Sadly? Well, I would agree sadly.
I think those kinds of predispositions or imbalances of West & East in the world will always exist, at least for such a long time to come, it may as well be considered 'always'. The only significant difference is the West, given its proclivities will 'always' or usually be stupid or blind about its own projections, while the East will be a bit more urbane, about taking our Western blindnesses, or projections into their calculations. Just my opinion.
That's part & parcel of the reality that in the East the ideal (thus imbalance) is oblivion via sameness, while in the West the ideal (or imbalance) is 'transcendence' via fantasy... Which is better, which is worse-?-who knows-?-the point I think I'm making is the same old, same old imbalances will persist. That's (somehow) this world. You can't hope (realistically) for people to be rational, only to assuage themselves with their own Brand of logic. It happens the 'logic' of the West, is almost the direct opposite of the 'logic' of the East.
Maybe such near opposites are essentially nexus of the same force which keeps the Earth on its axis? (I'm a Jew in my own opinion dispositionally, so I like to add, under G-d?) I hope this was accurate or not, somewhat coherent...
2003-01-08 00:27 | User Profile
Sertorius
Mr. Margolis has written as below
** Eric Margolis Toronto Sun 6Sep98 Mostly Jewish seven super-tycoons
Anti-Semitism is surging, as Russians blame the mostly Jewish seven super-tycoons, led by Boris Berezovsky, for their plight. Russians, like Ottoman Turks of the past, have traditionally little understanding of money. The main moneymen of the old Soviet Union, like today's Russia, are Jews and Armenians ââ¬â the same role they played, along with Greeks, in the Ottoman Empire. Russian xenophobes claim Jewish money from abroad is buying up bankrupt Russian industry. Welcome to Germany, 1932.**
Mr. Margolis has been criticized in the august pages of the Texas Mercury:> **Eric Margolis
Marginalizes Himself
The Collapse of a Good Talent
James Versluys**
[url=http://www.thetexasmercury.com/articles/versluys/JV20020908.html]http://www.thetexasmercury.com/articles/ve...JV20020908.html[/url]
He has received more bombast in the Houston Review:> **The Houston Review
March 4, 2001
The Russians Are Coming --NOT!
Eric Margolis, The Russians, and Us. by Derek Copold
Eric Margolis is an interesting writer. Though a Canadian journalist, many of his pieces concern themselves with U.S. foreign policy, and he almost always makes several good points in each submission. (In fact, Iââ¬â¢ve e-mailed him a time or two with my compliments.) A scathing critic of Canadian statism, Margolis is more than willing to honestly examine the faults and shortcomings of his own society, a laudable characteristic in any man at any time. Unfortunately, Margolis has two blind spots that weaken his writing, an affection for Islamic societies and an almost instinctive dislike of Russia.**
The above mentioned Derek Copold is known to most of us as Polichinello. Needless to add, Mr. Margolis will weather these two assaults. [url=http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/polichinello/P20010304.html]http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/poli.../P20010304.html[/url]
2003-01-08 01:03 | User Profile
It is grimly amusing to watch Blusterin' Boosh, the would-be world conqueror, suddenly start talking in hushed, sober tones about the need for "diplomacy" in dealing with this "delicate" North Korean matter. Margolis is right: the jumpsuited dwarf with the huge head has Jorge in a hammerlock, and he can't figure a way out. If I was in his place, I'd simply ignore the slope. Give him no danegeld whatsoever; not a drop of oil, nor a single grain of rice. Let them eat plutonium. That would put them in the hammerlock.
As for the "patriotic" South Koreans, their "pride" wounded due to the outrage of having "Mellicans" protect their asses for 50 years, I say let's bring that humiliation to an end once & for all.
2003-01-08 16:55 | User Profile
I agree with N.B. Forrest... There's this modern notion that to be Machiavellian in politics is immoral, or amoral... However notions of moral, immoral, or amoral are contingent upon (at best in human history) the Golden Rule: "Do Not do unto others what you would Not have done unto you, especially your own."
Ok, so then that which is moral, and the prudent Political choice are always at odds?
HELL, no! In my opinion it's literally hell, here, and hereafter to 'believe' that's the Case.
IF we were behaving like North & South Korea... and had any introspection whatsoever-?-which they don't (and I'm not sure we do either) wouldn't we, if we did, say hey, we don't deserve you? THEREIN resides my point... if anyone has read Machiavelli, as far as I can tell, when in the Actual context, it's almost always the Moral thing to do. Seriously, even when wild horses, pull someone (whoever) into two pieces.
The problem with U.S. foreign policy is in that it "Pretends" to be Machiavellian... and in the pretense it's, in my opinion, Immoral.
Right on! N.B. ... I must admit, N.B. slays me, that's why I must stay on my toes! Ol'N.B.
2003-01-08 17:36 | User Profile
**As for the "patriotic" South Koreans, their "pride" wounded due to the outrage of having "Mellicans" protect their asses for 50 years, I say let's bring that humiliation to an end once & for all. **
Well said, N.B.
It's time to let east Asia pay its own defense bills for once. Say the worst happens after we pull out and North Korea eats the South and we get one country again, ala Vietnam. Does that mean we wouldn't have any more Hyundais on the road? I shudder at the thought...
If Japan's so worried about a unified Korea, let them conscript their own teeming hordes and make their own nukes. They're the ones the Koreans aren't too fond of, after 500 plus years of Japan using the Korean peninsula as their own stop-n-rob whenever they feel like it.
2003-01-08 18:00 | User Profile
Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 8 2003, 00:27 ** The above mentioned Derek Copold is known to most of us as Polichinello. Needless to add, Mr. Margolis will weather these two assaults. [url=http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/polichinello/P20010304.html]http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/poli.../P20010304.html[/url] **
Ah, another drive-by shouting by Gibbon.
Just because I criticize a column doesn't mean I want the man destroyed, EG, which your "weathering" comment seems to imply.
I stand by what I wrote. At the time Margolis was pushing for the U.S. to take a more aggressive stance towards Russia, to treat her as an enemy on the same level with China or the radical Islamics. I disagreed and time has proven my position right on this matter.
Best, P
2003-01-08 20:11 | User Profile
Originally posted by Polichinello@Jan 8 2003, 18:00 ** > Originally posted by edward gibbon@Jan 8 2003, 00:27 ** The above mentioned Derek Copold is known to most of us as Polichinello. Needless to add, Mr. Margolis will weather these two assaults. [url=http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/polichinello/P20010304.html]http://www.houstonreview.com/articles/poli.../P20010304.html[/url] **
Ah, another drive-by shouting by Gibbon.
Just because I criticize a column doesn't mean I want the man destroyed, EG, which your "weathering" comment seems to imply.
I stand by what I wrote. At the time Margolis was pushing for the U.S. to take a more aggressive stance towards Russia, to treat her as an enemy on the same level with China or the radical Islamics. I disagreed and time has proven my position right on this matter.
Best, P **
HEY come on man, Mr. "P." your quote 'drive-by' is too Trite... for e. gibbon... AND PLENTY have been and are being perhaps Destroyed by those in Powerful places in this big blue bubble (mama Earth), held in an unimaginably large Vacuum of "space" or non-space really, least as far as we human mortals are concerned.... even "P." if not by yourself per se... or a (me)... I hear you though it breaks Up into teams... which in my opinion are 'sinning' if they hunt or seek "perfect balance"... and sinning Unless they seek what's required for Life, Approximate balance...
Ain't nice ever to fool mama Nature, on those times...She walks hand-in-hand with "Heaven"...
She doesn't ALWAYS walk hand-in-hand, (true & actual)... & that's why there's Also... Mystics... (yet they're not always Accurate either...) ... a Kaleidoscope... fortunately it doesn't move as fast as one you can hold in one's hand... BUT yes, it moves... AM I the only non-moron, in the Vorld? I don't know...no, I do, it's relative... but, and here's the rub, it also Includes the unknowable i.e. G-d... :P
2003-01-12 01:22 | User Profile
Originally posted by rban@Jan 11 2003, 23:20 ** Eric Margolis frequently writes for a paper out of Toronto called the Toronto Sun....it is part of a media empire owned by Jewish interests. The Sun and Margolis' columns systematically propagate a proIsraeli and antiArab line....and is very shrill in its denunciation of antiSemetism. You should have seen how berserk these people went when a native leader in Canada made a few proHitler statements....you would think this guy murdered the children of Toronto Sun editors.
Interestingly, it is a VERY blue-collar publication which is frequently denounced as a racist and sexist rag. A real favorite among grungy working class Canadians, its main claim to fame is an exhaustive (and often exhausting) sports section.
In summary it is the sort of paper you people would absolutely cherish like a Holy Bible, if only the rabid proJewish viewpoint were eliminated. **
Seriously, profound...
not to mention if accurate, informative...
all I can say... given my Overview... to the extent it exists, is, as usual, thank G-d for the pro-Jewish elan vital... (I guess while it lasts)... when & if it no longer does... folks will lamment its abscence, just like today some resent its presence...c'est la vie... I trust (somehow) the 'almighty...' ... probably I'm weak... ok, then if so, I'm weak... what can I say?
2003-01-13 00:47 | User Profile
Antiyuppie,
Actually, I never really understood why Eric Margolis is so well-loved by so many paleoconservatives. About the only essay he's ever written that I agreed with was his attack on traitor Jonathan Pollard's hero status among American Zionists.
Its like this. Margolis has written some of the better informed material about Iraq that I have seen in contrast to the usual nonsense written by columnists about "WMDs" and Iraq. What he has written above is something I happen to agree with. I also note that he has taken a hard stand on this issue that must make him unpopular with his bosses. He must have quite a following, otherwise I suspect he would have been fired by now. For me this is why I posted the column. I do admire his service in Viet Nam as well, I note that his Neo-con critics cant make the same claim.
Other than that, on almost every foreign policy issue he sounds just like William Kristol minus the militant Zionism.
Rban,
Interestingly, it is a VERY blue-collar publication which is frequently denounced as a racist and sexist rag. A real favorite among grungy working class Canadians, its main claim to fame is an exhaustive (and often exhausting) sports section.
This is an example of what I refer to as "reversed class hatred." To give you the benefit of the doubt about your status it is these despised blue collar workers who make it possible for you to live your life in the style that you claim.
By the way Rban, I am one of those awful blue collar workers you look down on and I [u]never[/u] look at the sports page. Your writings are entertainment enough for me. :)
2003-01-13 22:32 | User Profile
AntiYuppie (Posted on Jan 13 2003, 03:32 )> ** What I was simply asking was why Margolis is so highly regarded by many paleoconservatives **
I consider myself far more of a nationalist than a paleoconservative (for what it is worth).
2003-01-14 00:13 | User Profile
Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Jan 12 2003, 20:08 ** I appreciate and much prefer an honest, "ignorant" redneck without pretenses... **
Thanks AY. I appreciate you, too.
:D
2003-01-14 00:47 | User Profile
Originally posted by AntiYuppie@Jan 13 2003, 02:08 The degree of one's appreciation of high culture was probably closely correlated with socioeconomic status in the 19th century (i.e. only the upper middle classes and aristocracy appreciated literature, classical music, etc), but today's ruling classes are every bit as vulgar as yesteryear's lumpenproletariat - they're basically groundlings with more money and more arrogance.
**
That brings to mind that old essay by Charles Murray in WSJ on the proletarionization of the elites. Do you remember that one?
2003-01-14 04:41 | User Profile
I figure the Chinese are behind the North Koreans in this little diversion and the closer our Bushwhacker gets to mass killing Iraquies, the more heat they will raise in SE Asia. Look forward to more PRC movements towards Taiwan as the weeks go by and then watch who deals the cards from the bottom of the deck.
Bottom line here is that Oil and China are damn well equal in importance of what is good for Americans and if anyone starts f*cking that situatuon up, there will be hell to pay.
Let's hope someone does the world a favor, and nukes the hell out of israel while all this sh*t is going on.
2003-01-14 07:18 | User Profile
Okie,
I remember the essay. Here it is.
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=5426]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=ST&f=6&t=5426[/url]
Antiyuppie,
I understand what you are saying in both of your last posts.
Rban,
I see what you are saying as well.
=============================
Opps. Fixed.
2003-01-15 01:31 | User Profile
Originally posted by Sertorius@Jan 14 2003, 07:18 **Okie,
I remember the essay. Here it is.
[url=http://http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=5426]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=ST&f=6&t=5426[/url]
**
Actually a working link is.
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=5426&st=0#entry26313]Prole Models[/url]
Thanks for looking this up Sert. I coudn't remember where I'd posted it, actually though it was on Free Republic.
Incidentally tried to look for it over there, but noticed JR has followed the lead of our own illustrious leader and disabled the Search function for non-users. In fact, he requires an ISP address to even look at his forum now. Residual FR junkies like Mercuria and psychop fans of JR's streaks of paranoia undoubtedly would find it fascinating.
2003-01-18 22:28 | User Profile
Rban,
No, that is not what I meant and you know it. Nice try, but no cigar. I was alluding to your comments about the Globe. There will be one indian that I will love, youll be pleased to know and that is the one who comes here to bring back all of Indias sons and daughters to the mother country. I`d put up a statue to him for removing folks who have no business being here to begin with.
Actually, I have nothing against Indians, or for that matter, Pakistanis. I hope those countries develop first world economies and the best way for them to do that is to keep their productive people over there.
In short, my problem with them is more cultural than anything else. They have their part of the world with their own customs and history and we ours. I wish to see it remain that way. That wont happen if the U.S. and Europe keep allowing those people into our countries. Doing so only brings about more racial problems and another fifth column to put pressure on a govt. that is supposed to be looking out for Americas interest and not that of some other country`s.
2003-03-03 23:03 | User Profile
Perhaps it's time to bring this thread back. Let me share an experince with you all.. today, I was on the bus and a conversation was struck between myself and a young man ( 25-35) who noticed my injury ( I have a broken finger ) we talked about work, where to work, etc.. so I asked him where he works and he said he's on disability from the military.. he wasn't abash to tell me about how he was shot at by a " lucky shot with a pistol " at the Korean De-Militarized Zone (DMZ). He shot back, unsure if he hit anyone. He was shot in the shoulder. He gave me a brief description of what it's like on the DMZ to this day. Batteries pointed at each other, while the occasional North Korean may wander close enough to poke a shot. He made it a case to tell me that the American Media has not exposed the facts of life on the DMZ for many years, and the reason is because the Government does not want it let out, and through the military, does not leak. He showed me the bullet scar in his shoulder and I asked him how many shots, injuries, even deaths are unreported, he said " all ". He then gave me the standard view of the US military which is that the North Koreans are just bluffing and always back down.