← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Edana
Thread ID: 4299 | Posts: 27 | Started: 2003-01-03
2003-01-03 03:04 | User Profile
**We ask you to please act upon this at least watch the members of this expose them... this should not be on the internet
Please do study all details: Thank you:
Ms. G. Goldwater Switzerland, Geneva iii44@aol.com
There's a new site on the American web - a FORUM that seems to aspire to become a new Stormfront or Vanguard.
We watched the place for a while - they started accepting members a relatively short time ago, but before that, they were "invitation only", deliberately seeding the place with neo-nazis.
This was mainly done by a cadre of Canadian members. As of today, it's mainly a nazi forum with a few opposition voices.
After they opened up to the public, they were immediately classified as a hate site by SurfControl INC (http://www.surfcontrol.com), something that generated a bit of heat.
The upshot of that was that SurfControl retreated and is now classifying it as a "news" site. They insist that this is the right classification, which of course makes SurfControl an enabler helping to channel this stuff into places where it might not otherwise go, such as schools.
To get a small impression of the place, take a look at this thread. Someone invited Dr. Andrew E. Mathis from The Holocoust History Project in there to answer questions.
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_history&Number=324285&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=all&vc=1&t=-1]http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...t=all&vc=1&t=-1[/url]
You might also have a peek at this thread, which quickly evolves into a frenzy of death lists, calls for murder and threats.
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=315617&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=all&vc=1&t=-1]http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...t=all&vc=1&t=-1[/url]
The place, and its owners, need to be known....**
[url=http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/neonaziforum.html]this should not be on the internet[/url]
2003-01-03 04:00 | User Profile
Nice new avatar BTW!
Interesting Libery Forum Thread.
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ll_chat&Number=17978&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=all&vc=1&t=-1]Who's Online Watch[/url]
Seems like the Kommissars, from just ignoring the uncensored internet, are talking like they're taking it more seriously, and moving this as a mainstream political issue. :ph34r:
Which after staying on the internet for eons it seems, I'm a little rusty on frankly.
2003-01-03 05:36 | User Profile
They do not like free speech you know.
Gabrielle Goldwater's Reports
[url=http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/]http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/[/url]
Searched the web for iii44@aol.com.
[url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=iii44%40aol.com&btnG=Google+Search]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...G=Google+Search[/url]
Searched the web for "Gabrielle Goldwater".
[url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Gabrielle+Goldwater%22&btnG=Google+Search]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...G=Google+Search[/url]
2003-01-05 14:19 | User Profile
They do not like free speech you know.
Boy, do I know it! On the index page of my web site, I provided a link to a Jewish activist groups site (from Indiana, I believe) which detailed how Jews were supposed to act in order to get web sites they didn't like removed. When you click the link now, this is what you get...
[url=http://plum.he.net/cgi-bin/error404]not found[/url]http://plum.he.net/cgi-bin/error404 ;) I wish I had dowloaded the file now. I'll see if I can find it on Google cache.
2003-01-05 14:22 | User Profile
In re; to the above...
The requested object does not exist at the specified location. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it.
Hmmm... <_<
2003-01-19 22:28 | User Profile
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_computers&Number=405109&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=1&vc=1&t=-1]Web site owner goes to court to force 'troll' offline[/url]
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=features&Number=403290&page=&view=&sb=&o=&part=1&vc=1&t=-1]The forbidden song of LF spite modded[/url]
The Israel-Firsters are turning up the heat. To their credit, so far John Deere and his crew aren't caving in, but the whinefest on these threads makes for some interesting reading on just how Captain Ahab obsessed some of these people are about supressing free discourse on the Internet.
2003-01-20 00:36 | User Profile
[url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=features&Number=405874&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Centinel&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=403290#Post405874]http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...3290#Post405874[/url]
Now OD is being pilliored as a bunch of "white trash racists" by the LF Likudnik faction
2003-01-20 01:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 20 2003, 00:36 Now OD is being pilliored as a bunch of "white trash racists" by the LF Likudnik faction
I can't believe Daisy11 would say such a thing. We aren't white trash ;)
I don't know, it strikes me as if you've got a slightly thin skin. There are really only three or four ADL sympathizers over there, and Daisy11 is basically the worst of the lot.
I'm sure they don't like us, but you sort of have to expect it. People like [u]the skunk[/u] aren't exactly polite.
2003-01-20 02:31 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 20 2003, 00:36 ** Now OD is being pilliored as a bunch of "white trash racists" by the LF Likudnik faction **
They're working over at Liberty Post too.
[url=http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readarticle.cgi?114+8189+0+1]Nazi's Censor Jews at Liberty Forum[/url]
2003-01-20 02:49 | User Profile
They're working over at Liberty Post too.
Trolling on the other boards to get more fellow travellers at LF? Next thing you know they'll be openly recruiting on RimJobistan, and most likely they already are judging by their numbers at LF.
Amazing that a group can be so ideologically obsessed that they devote every waking hour to stifling dissent in any possible medium. They already have a forum where they've purged all dissenting voices at FReakdom, and that still ain't good enough for them.
I guess OD will be the next site on their radar screen.
2003-01-20 03:03 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Jan 19 2003, 19:15 ** > Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 20 2003, 00:36 Now OD is being pilliored as a bunch of "white trash racists" by the LF Likudnik faction
I can't believe Daisy11 would say such a thing. We aren't white trash ;) **
I resent the implication that I am not white trash. Please watch your language.
2003-01-20 03:05 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 20 2003, 02:49 ** Amazing that a group can be so ideologically obsessed that they devote every waking hour to stifling dissent in any possible medium. They already have a forum where they've purged all dissenting voices at FReakdom, and that still ain't good enough for them.
I guess OD will be the next site on their radar screen. **
I'm not sure they're all volunteers of course or in it just from the obsession. Inside info of course has it that at least two of the most notorious kommissars, including one who is registered on this forum, act more like professional organization monitors, such as with the 12 hour posting cycles of the notorious Freeper (Freepers?) "Veronica", who rumour has it is active on the other forums also, using other handles.
I suspect they're watching our Alexa rating and publicity. As Daisy's comment shows, they haven't forgot about us :ph34r:
2003-01-20 03:06 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 19 2003, 20:49 ** Amazing that a group can be so ideologically obsessed that they devote every waking hour to stifling dissent in any possible medium. They already have a forum where they've purged all dissenting voices at FReakdom, and that still ain't good enough for them.
**
And it's bloody effective too. Anything which does not fit the 'Israel is good, races must mix' matrix can swiftly be classified as 'Nazi,' and censored--all with a pleasant feeling of self-righteousness.
2003-01-20 03:26 | User Profile
**"Veronica", who rumour has it is active on the other forums also, using other handles. **
I saw on LF they dug up almost identical posts about Irv Rubin made by FR's "veronica" and LF's "penacite" within a very short time of one another. Caught red-handed, penacite denied any connection, but her/his/its posting style and grammar are unmistakably v-bot's.
I remember penacite followed Gott over here awhile back when he had some dust-up over on LF and was promptly chased off.
2003-01-20 03:47 | User Profile
Originally posted by darkeddy@Jan 20 2003, 03:06 And it's bloody effective too. Anything which does not fit the 'Israel is good, races must mix' matrix can swiftly be classified as 'Nazi,' and censored--all with a pleasant feeling of self-righteousness.
Well as MacDonald said -"group strategies ttrump individual strategies". I'm not necessarily sure really they are that big of an orginazation. (Veronica) might just be a couple of professional employees in a JDL, ADL, or SPLC office. But they do have a coordinated plan, an organization, and quite likely some funding for their efforts.
Gives them a definite advantage. Of course we've tried to develop some counter-tactics, and are gradually getting better, but with their organizational advantages they certainly did get a head start. That's how they took FR, shut down SFF, and kept LF private for a year.
2003-01-20 07:30 | User Profile
Originally posted by Centinel@Jan 19 2003, 18:36 ** [url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=features&Number=405874&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Centinel&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=403290#Post405874]http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...3290#Post405874[/url]
Now OD is being pilliored as a bunch of "white trash racists" by the LF Likudnik faction **
C,
I get an 'Access Denied' error message when I click on your link. Anyway to cut and paste the comment here?
Actually I am registered at LF, but I don't like to sign in and give my IP addy away. It has changed since I registered there a year ago and I haven't signed in since.
2003-01-20 07:46 | User Profile
Re: The forbidden song of LF spite modded [ To: Centinel | Post 405843, reply to 405688 ] (Score: -1)
Flag to: John Deere, Randal, CubicleGuy, Arator, NewFork, Centinel
I want to know WHAT KIND of game are you playing , when you post all your threads from another forum on LF?
Such as:
Wolfowitz: US will focus on settlements after war
U.S. public not sold on Iraq war: poll
AMAUDRUZ JAILED IN SWITZERLAND FOR HOLOCAUST DOUBT (oops, this one was copied by texoma from the same forum)
Who brought all the loonies from that forum on LF?
For all interested, follow the link:
Nationalists come home!
Re: The forbidden song of LF spite modded [ To: Daisy11 | Post 405849, reply to 405843 ] (Score: 1)
Is it a violation of this forum's rules to participate on other forums?
Perhaps if you had your way it would be.
Re: The forbidden song of LF spite modded [ To: Centinel | Post 405859, reply to 405849 ] (Score: -1)
"Nationalists! Come home" ?
Did you bring all the white trash racists with you, yes or no?
Re: The forbidden song of LF spite modded [ To: Daisy11 | Post 405874, reply to 405859 ] (Score: 1)
I learned about LF from posters on OD, but I never invited anyone else to come register over here. Many there have been LF members for quite some time.
The term "white trash racists" is subjective. I don't consider myself one, nor do many of the OD posters. In fact, I find the term rather insulting. Some of them believe race plays more a part in politics than others, however.
(I'm a paleo-libertarian of the LewRockwell type, FWIW, but I have yet to make up my mind on "free trade," given political realities.)
Not to play the "we were here first so our opinion matters more" game, but I don't put more stock in one person's opinion over another's based on how long they've been on a site. Apparently some people, including yourself, do.
Daisy11's LF registration date: 11/23/02
Centinel's LF registration date: 08/21/02
2003-01-20 09:24 | User Profile
Can someone tell me how many members Liberty Forum has? I looked around, but couldn't find the member index. The thread lengths and view numbers look healthy enough.
1397
Hit "Main Index" and the registered user count will display above "Liberty Lounge"
2003-01-20 17:21 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Jan 20 2003, 09:11 > That's how they took FR, shut down SFF, and kept LF private for a year. **
The most useful thing I can think of at this time is to get a number of accounts regarding the 'fall' of Free Rebpublic and collate them into a genuine history. People ask me about this pretty often, and I can only give the sketchiest of details.
Detailed information about our opponents and their method of operation would be a useful appendix to that report, too.
Does someone here have the big picture, the names, and the locations of the skeleton bearing closets? If you were to put it all into one essay and post on OD, I can guarantee it would be a respectable net-quake.
Wintermute**
The only one who truly understands the ins and outs of all the innumerable beings of Free Republic over the years is God. :o
Quite seriously, researching any large conspiritorial network of undertakings is not an easy task, even where the activities of one person is involved. Take famous criminals i.e. serial killers, such as Ted Bundy. If you review some of the books written about him, you will find they just concentrate on a few, easily documented aspects of his crime career, such as his relationship with a girlfriend or the cat and mouse games he played with the detective that finally nailed him.
Mass organizations are similar. 90% of the books about Naziism after all mainly just talk about Hitler. Books on the religious right, anddiscussions here, just talk about Robertson and Farwell. etc, etc.
Gathering up a story from huge archives of material, written by anonymous pseudonymes meaningless to most people, is a difficult task even if it is unemcumbered. When the principles have been deliberately uncooperative and have made elaborate activities to hide information, like JR has with his forum archives, it makes things even more complicated. The willingnes to proceed with lawsuits, etc against his opponents at times also is impediment.
There are anti-Freeper archives (I consider us one faction of the AF's, the paleo-Buchananite faction) hid all over the internet, and I have been arguing someone needs to put them together in a comprehensive archive for years. But the schismatic nature of the AF movement seems to make that rather difficult. Remember, it seemed to take years just for someone to put together an open to the public AF site (Liberty Post) where people could discuss critically the bad aspects of FR without having the negative dynamics of such shut the whole place down. (Like it did with Freeper Reunion and Arator).
For some reason AFdom therefor has never really gotten off the ground or gotten very well organized. I can see where you're coming from, but the task, to everyone I've talked with, certainly seems a lot more difficult than it sounds.
For paleoconservatism in particular finding a response to FR's continual downhill slide into neo con subservience should be high priority. But its not just neo cons and FR that are the obstacle. Paleodom in particular has its own problems. An acquaintance with some experience in the area described it this way.
I witnessed everything you talked about, especially the fractiousness. Paleos seem to get a real masochistic thrill out of spending hours and hours talking about the impending end of civilization, but when you ask them what they'll willing to do about it, what sacrifices they're willing to make, the answer usually ends up being "not much." The truth is that talking is a lot easier and enjoyable than doing, and paleos turn out to be just as lazy as all those TV-watching Americans they're always castigating. I sometimes think that if all our problems suddenly disappeared they'd be unhappy because they wouldn't have anything to complain about. I'm sure there are a few people who genuinely want to do something, but they're few and far between, and I wasn't able to find enough of them to serve as any sort of critical mass. (And those that do aren't necessarily too bright and don't understand strategy). The bottom line is that there's simply no desire out there (yet) to do what needs to be done. Maybe things have to get a lot worse first, but by then, it will probably be too late to stem the tide.
So I know we all see the need for things like you're talking about, like a good account of FR from a paleo point of view. "Somebody" really needs to do it. I'm sure a lot of us actually are planning on it, when we get "aroundtuit". :(
2003-01-21 03:05 | User Profile
wintermute,
Have you seen these threads?
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=4459&hl=scallon]Chronicles Magazine on Free Republic[/url]
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=4506&hl=scallon]FREE REPUBLIC'S PRAGMATISM[/url]
2003-01-21 03:26 | User Profile
The "shadowy lawyer" is Bill Buckley's son, no?
2003-01-21 03:47 | User Profile
Okiereddust wrote:
**Well as MacDonald said -"group strategies ttrump individual strategies". I'm not necessarily sure really they are that big of an orginazation. (Veronica) might just be a couple of professional employees in a JDL, ADL, or SPLC office. But they do have a coordinated plan, an organization, and quite likely some funding for their efforts.
Gives them a definite advantage. Of course we've tried to develop some counter-tactics, and are gradually getting better, but with their organizational advantages they certainly did get a head start. That's how they took FR, shut down SFF, and kept LF private for a year. **
Check this story out that was just posted to Rense.com:
[url=http://www.rense.com/general33/attacks.htm]Attacks On Free Expression, Inquiry And Rense.com Mount[/url]
2003-01-21 06:20 | User Profile
Originally posted by mwdallas@Jan 21 2003, 03:26 ** The "shadowy lawyer" is Bill Buckley's son, no? **
Actually he was a distant relative as I understand it. FR handle was clarity.
IMO and most others he was absolute scum. He makes people like veronica/penacite etc. lok like models of fairness and politeness.
I think onetime he accussed someone who disagreed with him of being a child molester.
*Late entry - His name is Brian Buckley.
2003-01-21 06:57 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Jan 21 2003, 02:54 **Okie -
Well, I'm certainly willing to help. My main problem is writing the story is that I don't know what I'm looking for. There were changes in JR's outlook, certainly, then a lot of people were banned. A suit from the Washington Post and the LATimes was involved in this. There's talk of a shadowy lawyer figure near JR.
At this point, I'd be happy just to have a two paragraph summary, even if it rests on speculation.
Can you do that for me? Or do you know someone who could? I don't need a full intelligence file . . . yet.
Wintermute**
You might start with this forum, to get the general feel of paleo AFdom
[url=http://forums.delphiforums.com/Reunionx1/start]FRU Reunion[/url]
For starters, you might look at threads like this
[url=http://forums.delphiforums.com/Reunionx1/messages/?msg=234.1]JR Plans his Bleak Future[/url]
All sorts of AF materials scattered around and stories, but never particularly well organized, nor seemingly of that much interest except to other freepers/exfreepers. Libertypost and this are good starting points. Let me know if you need more.
2003-01-21 17:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by Okiereddust@Jan 21 2003, 06:20 ** > Originally posted by mwdallas@Jan 21 2003, 03:26 ** The "shadowy lawyer" is Bill Buckley's son, no? **
Actually he was a distant relative as I understand it. FR handle was clarity.
IMO and most others he was absolute scum. He makes people like veronica/penacite etc. lok like models of fairness and politeness.
I think onetime he accussed someone who disagreed with him of being a child molester. **
Well I have seen the Jews on FR and other forums accuse those they disagree with of being pedophiles routinely so while this guy may have been scum that cannot be any measuring rule of difference from the veronicas et al.
2004-11-16 21:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]They do not like free speech you know.
Gabrielle Goldwater's Reports
[url=http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/]http://goldwater.mideastreality.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
Is this our Gabrielle, Faust?
2004-11-16 23:11 | User Profile
Texas Dissident,
Is this our Gabrielle, Faust?
No, she is not.
This is our Gabrielle
[QUOTE]In Response to Edgar Steele's "Apology and Clarification" by Gabrielle [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13708[/url]
In Defense of Homophobia (No, really, I mean it...) by Gabrielle [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13473[/url]
The Khazar Theory ... Only a Theory? By Gabrielle [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13415[/url]
SF Becomes Misogyny-Watch Site [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7110[/url] [/QUOTE]