← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Fliegende Hollander
Thread ID: 3788 | Posts: 8 | Started: 2002-12-02
2002-12-02 02:02 | User Profile
American Renaissance has linked to the Vanderbilt Orbis account of Jared Taylor's debate with arch wigger Wise. While Ms Huskey does at least summarize each side, it is apparent she is not exactly unbiased. Jared Taylor is called "racial segregationist and exclusionist" while Tim Wise is "one of the leading voices of antiracism in the country." and per press release "the foremost white, antiracist intellectual and activist in the nation." Note particularly that all four linked comments at the bottom of the page are pro White.
[url=http://www.vanderbiltorbis.com/vfeedback/frontend.v?ACTION=display_post&Post_ID=f930f697c20862e667e58fe26f723b8e]http://www.vanderbiltorbis.com/vfeedback/f...7e58fe26f723b8e[/url]
Recent debate examines role of white nationalism
Amanda Huskey Assistant Current Events Editor November 20, 2002
On Nov. 5, activists representing the two extremes of the racial divide visited campus to debate the future of race relations in the United States. Racial segregationist and exclusionist Jared Taylor and one of the leading voices of antiracism in the country, Tim Wise, participated in the forum at the Law School entitled "The New White Nationalism in America: Legitimate Movement or Racist Supremacy?" The event was organized and moderated by Carol Swain, Vanderbilt law professor and author of The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration. The debate was a great opportunity for faculty, students and the public to engage in dialogue about very important yet controversial issues concerning race. Taylor is the president of the New Century Foundation, a non-profit think tank that analyzes concerns that pertain to both race and immigration, and is the editor of American Renaissance magazine. An advisor at the Fisk University Race Relations Institute, Tim Wise is the former associate director of the Louisiana Coalition Against Racism and Nazism, an organization to which many have attributed the political defeat of David Duke. According to the press release for the debate, Wise has been named "the foremost white, antiracist intellectual and activist in the nation." Proponents of white nationalism such as Taylor believe the United States was created by white individuals for white people, and the white race should be concerned about securing white individuals' role as a majority in this country. Taylor began the discussion by suggesting that the new white nationalism movement is legitimate. Taylor proclaimed that it is rare to hear white individuals share that they are proud to be white because they feel obligated to continuously defend a wicked past. "Whites are scared to fight for their name and do not even realize they have a side," according to Taylor. Wise responded that a white nationalist movement could never be legitimate. He believes that whites cannot organize without it being racist. When people of color organize, they do so not to dominate whites but to gain equity. Wise continued that whiteness only emerged as a means of unity for the European people. "It was a trick for class interest that embedded relative privilege," said Wise. Taylor claimed that race is obviously a biological category, a fault line in any society. Taylor says, "I do not love my children because they are smarter, but because they are mine." He suggested that such an analogy may be used for his culture or white family. On the other hand, Wise said he did not understand why one's family must be confined to those of the same race. Taylor argued that "you find conflict wherever you find diversity." He remarked that if whites do not take a stand to defend their interest, no one else will. "Integration does not take place naturally. Races are like oil and water, they just cannot be mixed," said Taylor. Taylor claimed that if whites do not take a stand they will undoubtedly become a minority by or before 2050. Wise responded, "We are going to be a plurality not a minority, which is very different." The transformation of whites to a plurality is not a threat, but will result in greater attempts toward equality. Wise said, "When you ignore the harm of inequity, it will come back to haunt you." After the debate, moderator and professor Carol Swain made some closing comments. She said that "America must move away from identity politics." She also stated that some of the segregation in society does not stem from hatred. She used the example "birds of the same feather flock together." Swain suggested that individuals must develop and incorporate a new national identity that does not focus on what differentiates us from others, but instead focuses on what unites us.
2002-12-02 15:25 | User Profile
Originally posted by Fliegende Hollander@Dec 1 2002, 21:02 ** Wise responded, "We are going to be a plurality not a minority, which is very different." The transformation of whites to a plurality is not a threat, but will result in greater attempts toward equality. Wise said, "When you ignore the harm of inequity, it will come back to haunt you."**
How can people say things like this with a straight face? In order to know how the nation is going to be once whites are a minority (ahem, a plurality--standard liberal tactic, just exchange a word or two and then everything becomes okay) then all we have to do is to look at places in the US where whites are already a minority--Los Angeles, Miami, Detroit, etc. Have these places resulted in "greater attempts toward equality"? Maybe the whites have made these attempts, but for the blacks and Hispanics, they have resulted in "greater attempts toward" raw, naked power. Wise will be the one haunted for his treason (once he helps run all the "racist" whites out, he'll have quite a surprise when the nonwhite pluralities turn on him and repay his loyalty with a rusty knife) and not the white man who fights the good fight.
2002-12-02 15:31 | User Profile
A good counter-argument by Taylor would be to bring up the situation in South & Central America. The crime rate in Brazil is sky high, as it is in most of the Latin World. The truth is, Taylor isn't speaking to blacks/mestizos. They're not going to listen to him anyway.
But he is speaking to whites. He needs to keep bludgeoning them with crime stats of Brazil....political assasinations every 3 months in Columbia.....Nicaragua's drug situation....Honduras and their lack of running water. Keep bringing this stuff up and say, "Inequity ain't causing that."
-J
2002-12-02 15:46 | User Profile
Back to the Future - United States of Socialist Republics
Dear fellow white Americans,
I came to the United States in the 70s from the very possible future of America - Russia. The longer I live in this country the more ominous signs of the Soviet Union I see around me. I feel like I am on the trip "Back to the Future" - The United States of Socialist Republics. Most of the social and political "experiments", new "trends" and developments that have taken place in this country over the past 35 years are not new at all because they were first invented and practiced in Russia. Americans should know what was invented and implemented by the Soviet communists that is directly relevant to America of today and to all of you, White Americans, if you want to survive as a race:
martial standards need to be continually lowered to accomodate female "equality." (Just as White created standards need to be continually lowered to accomodate Colored "equality.")
(Affirmative Action in America is a serious threat to the U.S. national economic and military security for obvious reasons: unqualified, indifferent and untrainable people take jobs based solely on their race, ethnicity and gender. Affirmative Action is a well-planned government hate crime and race war against the white population, it is a government tool of dispossession of the whites)
(Political correctness in America is a crime against the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Freedom of expression and communist political correctness are contradictions in terms, one excludes the other. If there is political correctness on every issue then there should be people who determine for all Americans what is correct and what is not acceptable. We must confront these filthy Soviet-type PolitBuro members, these Gulag contorllers of the Mind, who believe that their political correctness should take precedence over the Bill of Rights. We must throw this communist garbage out of this country or hang them all the good old American way. Political correctness is political violence against our constitutional rights to freedom of expression. Freedom of speech is an American absolute for all times.)
(A quote from one of the prominent traitors of America, chairman of the Handgun Control, Inc.: "Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed". Need I say more to illustrate where America is going?).
(In America, they have come up with the weapon of "racism" to use the power of the government and anty-White mass media to subordinate White people by the people of "color". Who came up with this program of "racism"? You will be the judge, I will just give you a quote of a well-known communist, which is on the records in the Library of Congress: ISRAEL COHEN (1912) "We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause." (Israel Cohen, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, 1912. Also in the Congressional Record, Vol. 103, p. 8559, June 7, 1957).
One World Government. The major goal of the Soviet Union's foreign policy was to achieve one world federation. First, it used force and bloodshed to incorporate fifteen neighbouring nations into the USSR. As a result of WWII, the Soviet Union managed to grab ten European and Asian countries under its military and political control, and formed the "Socialist Camp". The military Warsaw Pact was designed to be the future army of one world government which would beat nations into obedience. By the end of the 60s, the USSR controlled over 60 countries of the world using force, coercion, ideological brainwashing and economic bribery.
Total control of the mass media by one small group of people. The communists quickly seized control of the mass media, the communist lie-machine, and became undisputed masters of the mind shaping process in Russia. They managed to stifle public discourse using intimidation, loud condemnation, damaging political labels. Anyone who expressed a different opinion were immediately labeled as anti-government, supremasists, separatists, subculture elements, racists (Leon Trotsky, one of the principal architects of the communist nightmare, invented the word "racist"). Their fate was one - a Siberian concentration camp and certain death.
Internal Passports. The communist beasts introduced internal passports which indicated your date and place of birth, ethnicity, place of residence authorized by the police, place of work, marriage status, number of children and their dates and places of birth. Without this internal passport, a Soviet citizen could not get a job or services, a place to live, buy an air or trian ticket, take a room at a hotel, buy modest property, he/she could not marry, he/she could be arrested if they did not have it on them when a policeman stopped for some reason. Each internal passport was assigned a number, which was basically a slave number for every single Russian. The whole Soviet Union was a huge slave camp.
(In this country, we are moving in the same direction. Over the past four years, four laws have been passed by Congress which can be termed as slave laws. One of them is contemplating introduction of national ID cards which will incorporate the Social Security number, our driver's license number, retinal scans; fingerprint scans. That will be our slave cards, and the name of our once-free country will be the United Slaves of America). h.
Does it all sound familiar to you, my fellow Americans? Isn't it what is going on in the United States today? Do you realize that by being well-meaning, politically correct, compliant lemmings you have lost your country to the anti-White, socialist government and lazy, parasitic, lawless "minorities"? Don't you understand that by being meek, submissive sheep you will soon become third-class, inferior citizens enslaved and oppressed in your own country? Don't you realize that the anti-White affirmative action, unnatural"diversity" and planned legal and illegal immigration represent an undeclared war on the White population? Do you realize that in less than 20 years you, White Americans, will be a minority oppressed in your own country? Don't you understand that your Constitution and laws will not help then you as they are not helping you now? Do you understand that if you do not speak forcefully in defense of your culture, language and American (not multicultural) way of life, you will be just another part of the world where the former United States will be called an American province, where white women would be raped, white children beaten at schools, and white men killed every single day?
There are quite a few Americans who understand already what "future" their government is preparing for them. But there are many more who do not even suspect what is going on around them. If those of you, feel-good simpletons, who think that what I describe here is gibberish, then think again because everything is ready in America for the trip "Back to the Future".
Let us look at the hard facts. In addition to the criminal Affirmative Action - this totalitarian cult of anti-White discrimination and White dispossession, anti-White multicultural "diversity", anti-White mass immigration, anti-White mass media, anti-White political correctness, anti-White educators, and treasonous anti-American "free trade", you also have: (1) the UN Security Council which will act like the Soviet PolitBuro making decisions on the lives of billions of people, including millions of Americans; (2) the International Court which will give legitimacy to decisions of the UN PolitBuro; (3) the Interpol which is going to be the world's police force; (4) the NATO troops will be the world's army which will beat nations into obedience (look at Irag, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sudan, Afganistan, and you will see the future); (5) the World Trade organization which will control the movement of raw materials, goods, services and labor across national borders; (6) UNESCO which will control the mass media and science; (7) United Nations Fund for Population Activities which will control which race and ethnic groups should increase or decrease in numbers through forced sterilization; (8) the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund which will control finances of the whole world. As you can see, everything is in place already. Everything! No one in his sane mind can deny these obvious, hard facts. When the New World Order is firmly established, America will be simply a conglomeration of incompatible, mutually hostile and disorganized minorities controlled by a truly organized minority of predators. The ultimate goal of the new globalist "master race" is total world domination, total world ownership.
Wake up, White Americans! Where is your pride? Do you want to repeat the tragic fate of the 60,000,000 Russians and Ukranians killed by the communists in the name of socialism, forced multicultural diversity and one world government? Do you want to wait till the government sends "minority " troups to crush you for your "hate crimes", i.e. for speaking your minds, standing up for your rights? In the Soviet Union, the communists practiced this effectively when they would send soldiers from the Muslim republics to crush rebellions in Russia. Based on the events in Los Angeles, one can easily predict that the "minorities" would take pleasure in killing the Whites, and we should not expect the law to help us. As Reginald Denny was having his brains beat out, a dozen armed Los Angeles police in three cars slowly and quietly backed away from the intersection. It was all captured on camera. The message is clear. You White citizens are on your own! Do not expect us to protect you, even when we have the clear and overwhelming power to do so. That is the ugly truth of our position in this country.
Fight back, White people! We must organize ourselves into like-minded groups, as all other ethnic groups do today in America, and fight for our rights as all other ethnic groups do. We must change so that we can defend our own culture. All decent Americans should stand up for all that is right and state what they believe in the most honest and forthright manner, instead of trying to be "reasonable" and "inoffensive." We must educate ourselves and prepare for the eventual race war. The horrible example of the Soviet Union, Palestine and the latest events in Rwanda, India, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Canada, Bosnia and Kosovo clearly show that incompatible races, cultures and religions simply cannot live together especially when the government favors some ethnic groups over others. Only the thinking minority will survive in the future. The rest of the feel-good, meek simpletons will be slaughtered like sheep, as they slaughtered the French in Haiti in 1798-1803, as they are killing White people in Sounth Africa now every singly day. Our race is facing complete ruin and extinction through "diversity," "multiculturalism," "integration of the races," and a "New World Order." A good people can become enslaved and ruined because their very kindness, their goodness and their inherent honesty can be used against them by enemies who don't play by the same rules. If the White race doesn't wake up, wise up and shape up, nature will definitely ship us out of history. Think about it, good Americans, switch off your boobtubes, get off your couches and fight for your rights before it is too late.
[url=http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Politics-USBecomingUSSR-Andy.htm]http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Oth...ngUSSR-Andy.htm[/url]
2002-12-03 15:13 | User Profile
It just keeps getting better. AR now notes 17 responses on the Vanderbilt Orbis webpage where Senorita Torres' screed appears. Sixteen are pro White. The only response at all sympathetic to her still is staunchly English only.
2002-12-08 17:14 | User Profile
Originally posted by Feric Jaggar@Dec 2 2002, 10:25 > Originally posted by Fliegende Hollander@Dec 1 2002, 21:02 ** Wise responded, "We are going to be a plurality not a minority, which is very different." The transformation of whites to a plurality is not a threat, but will result in greater attempts toward equality. Wise said, "When you ignore the harm of inequity, it will come back to haunt you."
How can people say things like this with a straight face? In order to know how the nation is going to be once whites are a minority (ahem, a plurality--standard liberal tactic, just exchange a word or two and then everything becomes okay) then all we have to do is to look at places in the US where whites are already a minority--Los Angeles, Miami, Detroit, etc. Have these places resulted in "greater attempts toward equality"? Maybe the whites have made these attempts, but for the blacks and Hispanics, they have resulted in "greater attempts toward" raw, naked power. Wise will be the one haunted for his treason (once he helps run all the "racist" whites out, he'll have quite a surprise when the nonwhite pluralities turn on him and repay his loyalty with a rusty knife) and not the white man who fights the good fight.**
And are these places anyone wants to move to? Hardly. They are cities people are fleeing from. The minorities will follow Whites because on their own they cant manage an advanced society.
Also, why is it so many Blacks, Latins, Indians, and Asians with means want to leave their homogenous homelands, free of white supression, to come to racist America? Quite simply because none of them have the traits, which are quickly whithering here, to create the society our White ancestors did.
2002-12-09 14:10 | User Profile
**After the debate, moderator and professor Carol Swain made some closing comments. She said that "America must move away from identity politics." She also stated that some of the segregation in society does not stem from hatred. She used the example "birds of the same feather flock together." Swain suggested that individuals must develop and incorporate a new national identity that does not focus on what differentiates us from others, but instead focuses on what unites us. **
I read most of Swain's book on "The New White Nationalism - Its Threat to Integration." It's not great - I can't advise dropping $25 on it, but it's worth a look.
I should say first that it's rather clearly not authored by Swain - at least not entirely. She admits that she did NONE of the interviews, which is a major tip-off right there. Some of the legal analysis is very well written - I sense the hand of an anonymous star law student behind it.
But, be that as it may, Swain does indeed seem genuinely in favor of integration, and for an end to identity politics. She does seem willing to let folks compete as individuals, and to let the racial chips fall where they may. She also wants to end illegal immigration, and she admits that blacks are largely to blame for their own problems, and that whites have a legitimate interest in keeping the country white. At least, that's how I read her. And if so, that puts her utterly at odds with the entire civil rights establishment, who placed all bets on group identity, racial block voting, political spoils based on group identity, and so forth.
The greatest service that Swain did for our country is to help to legitimize the entire debate. She's done more than most to get these issues on the agenda, and for that I thank her.
If she and others like her are willing to engage us in a reasoned debate, then that's good enough for me. I understand that she believes that a little sunshine will make white nationalism disappear. How very wrong she is. The simple fact is that all the best empirical evidence is on our side. Racial differences are real, and science is revealing their importance more clearly every day.
Anyway, I thank Prof. Swain for her good intentions. They are fully reciprocated in me.
(I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts Prof. Swain is a regular lurker here).
Walter
2002-12-10 09:03 | User Profile
Originally posted by wintermute@Dec 10 2002, 08:46 > Originally posted by Walter Yannis@Dec 9 2002, 08:10 **
(I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts Prof. Swain is a regular lurker here).
**
I see your donut, Walter, and I raise you two Crispy Cremes that one of Prof. Swain's star students is a lurker here. Knowing academia as I do, we are probably presented in a digest/ debriefing format on her desk - monthly, I should say.
An extra donut for either Prof. Swain or the student, if they de-lurk to solve this dilemma.
As a writer, it's always interesting to learn more about your audience. I myself never say anything here that I wouldn't want the whole world to know, especially that part of the world that works for US intelligence. I think there are a lot of loyalists to be reached there, so we must always be on our best behavior when posting. One can never have too many friends.
And just think about those poor guys in the white vans, cooped up with their electronics. Probably not much to laugh about in all that sigint. If I were them, Il Ragno's postings would be the high point of my day!
In fact, I'm not and they still are!
While I am still in this Christmas-y good cheer, let me second your assessment of Prof. Swain. She has done a great deal to legitimate public discussion of issues of supreme importance to us. I am happy to reciprocate, with you, those good intentions.
God bless us, every one!
Wintermute**
You're a gem, Wintermute.
I fold. Two Crispy Creams are just too rich for my blood. [Prof. Swain (or pseudo-Swain?) - reveal yourself!!!!]
I wholeheartedly concur with your assessment of Il Ragno's comments. I log in nearly every day just to delight in his verbal antics.
Like you, I try to be on my best behaviour here. Prof. Swain makes the case that the Left needs to get over the stereotype of white nationalists as toothless, ignorant denizens of trailer parks - and that in fact white nationalists today tend to be well educated and of the professional classes. OD is Exibit A for that case.
Walter