They exploit real racial and ethnic policy concerns which should be given a forum for intelligent discourse, says Swain. **
Don't hold your breath ÃÂ 
| **Quote** | In fact, Swain goes so far as to say that if liberals and African American leaders don't start to address the legitimate concerns raised by the white nationalists on race matters , they risk being partly to blame for racial unrest in America**
My oh my. ÃÂ I bet such weighs heavy on these's people's hearts ÃÂ
---
### il ragno
*2002-05-07 21:25* | [User Profile](/od/user/85)
| **Quote** | | Their members are not blue-collar rednecks but are likely to be college-educated, financially secure, middle-class Americans**
Anybody else as tired of 'divide and conquer' as I am? To paraphrase Dubya, *let us leave no white behind*.
This smacks of the same elitist bastards who got us INTO this mess. Here, take this knife, and stick it into the backs of 'blue collar rednecks'. Then and only then will we 'accept' you as respectable white nationalists fit to sit at the same table as these 'surprising' Jewish individuals! Already they're in and drawing lines of demarcation - the slope-browed, subhuman 'redneck' who says 'ni**er' on one side of the divide; and the suburban Jew who'd prefer not to have *those people* bringing down the property values on the other. God *damn!*
That's funny: when it was just gentiles worrying about their property values, we were ALL 'rednecks' and 'haters'. Now that there's a new 'smarter, sophisticated' element in the mix, the door to polite society is slightly ajar. But no 'rednecks', please. Try to forget that those moronic 'rednecks' are, in all likelihood, your parents & grandparents. If you want to be part of the SEXY new 'White Nationalism', just...y'know...forget all that. Forget those people. You can't **use** such people to get anywhere important.
Just suck up to power, and for God's sake remember not to call them 'rednecks' when marshalling support for Israel among the evangelical redn- err, 'Christians'.
Pass.
---
### solutrian
*2002-05-07 21:41* | [User Profile](/od/user/45)
I suspect Prof. Swain is full of it. How many Jews are White Nationalists in the true sense, and how many of them could speak for white nationalism. Obviously not many. None is more like it. Swain's book is simply another scare tract, regaling the nation to the danger of the "new, slick, suited "neo Nazis speaking better English and even more dangerous than his redneck brethren.
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### Faust
*2002-05-08 01:03* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
I will tell all Liberals of whatever Race I wnat no part of "Integration". I want no part of your so-called "multi" stuff. I am what I am I wnat no part of you!
"I suspect Prof. Swain is full of it...Swain's book is simply another scare tract, regaling the nation to the danger of the "new, slick, suited "neo Nazis speaking better English and even more dangerous than his redneck brethren."-solutrian
Great solutrian.
CAROL M. SWAIN PICTURE
http://bookbuzz.com/swain.gif
CAROL M. SWAIN is Professor of Political Science and Professor of Law at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. She spent the first 10 years of her career teaching at Princeton University, where she was a tenured professor of political science and public policy at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.
Swain was one of twelve children born into rural poverty in Virginia, was a high school dropout who went on to get her GED, worked her way through community college, then earned a bachelor=s degree, a master=s degree, a Ph.D. (University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill) and an MLS (Yale University Law School).
She is the author of Black Faces, Black Interests: The Representation of African Americans in Congress, (Harvard University Press, 1993) which won the Woodrow Wilson Prize, the D.B. Hardeman Prize, and the V. O. =Key Award. She has published numerous articles including op-eds in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and The Chronicle of Higher Education. She lectures widely across the country, on issues ranging from congressional redistricting to the future of affirmative action programs.
---
### Faust
*2002-07-04 06:32* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
**The New White Nationalism in America**
Black prof has a new book on White Nationalism, hear her interviewed from title link.
*We don?t hear much from white nationalists these days. The Klan is out of date, out of money. Timothy McVeigh is dead and gone. David Duke no longer runs for office, the Aryan Nation?s been sued out of existence.
Okay America, gather round. This is good, right? Shut down the hate speech, shove it into the shadows.
Carol Swain says NO. She?s a black law professor with a warning. She says white nationalism is growing, its roots being fed, its ugly shoots judiciously pruned, and unless this shade-lover is exposed to the sun, it?ll overwhelm us. She says the trick is understanding the truths that power the lies, and the solution is to fix injustices that bolster the so-called Identity Movement. Immigration, affirmative action, and the new white nationalism.*
Listen to Show:
[url=http://realserver.bu.edu:8080/ramgen/w/b/wbur/connection/audio/2002/07/con_0703a.rm]http://realserver.bu.edu:8080/ramgen/w/b/w...07/con_0703a.rm[/url]
url: [url=http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2002/07/20020703_a_main.asp]http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2002/07...0703_a_main.asp[/url]
---
### Faust
*2002-07-08 15:54* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
More Articles.
New White Nationalism
[url=http://law.vanderbilt.edu/alumni/lawyer/feature1.html]http://law.vanderbilt.edu/alumni/lawyer/feature1.html[/url]
`Brighter' White Nationalists May Emerge From Shadows
[url=http://www.newhouse.com/archive/story1a022602.html]http://www.newhouse.com/archive/story1a022602.html[/url]
---
### weisbrot
*2002-07-08 17:55* | [User Profile](/od/user/151)
> *Originally posted by Faust*@Jul 8 2002, 09:54
**More Articles.
New White Nationalism
[url=http://law.vanderbilt.edu/alumni/lawyer/feature1.html]http://law.vanderbilt.edu/alumni/lawyer/feature1.html[/url]
`Brighter' White Nationalists May Emerge From Shadows
[url=http://www.newhouse.com/archive/story1a022602.html]http://www.newhouse.com/archive/story1a022602.html[/url]**
From the Vanderbilt article:
"Journalists and editors traditionally have acted as media gatekeepers, selecting and filtering what reaches the public. But the Internet has no such watchdogs.
ââ¬Å I think the Internet is a tremendous alternative source of information,ââ¬Â former Klansman David Duke said. ââ¬ÅItââ¬â¢s a media bypass.ââ¬Â "
So they thoroughly "discredit" Duke by labeling him as a hater, and then toss out the above gem- after establishing their tolerance credentials by disparaging the typical "cross-burning redneck".
This is an article written for lawyers presumably by lawyers. Astounding stuff. The remainder of the article continues to make assertions without any attempt at documentation, such as:
"The new racists may be less physically threatening than the jack-booted skinheads of the ââ¬â¢80s, but they are even more dangerous. The peril lies in the insidious appeal of their message.
ââ¬ÅThe groups that are a threat are the ones that argue in favor of white self-determination, white pride, and white civil rights,ââ¬Â Swain said. ââ¬ÅThe groups we need to watch are the ones led by people like Jared Taylor. He graduated from Yale and holds a graduate degree from the Paris Institute of Political Studies. Heââ¬â¢s much more dangerous because he would fit in at most major universities and no one would be alarmed unless he started to discuss his views widely."
Why are Taylor and the groups she mentions so dangerous? Swain never establishes the grounds for the conclusions she reaches, and the author of this article makes no attempt to provide any background. We're left to understand that- since the lawyers say so- these "groups" are a far greater threat than the unbridled immigration to which they give passing notice.
Last time Vanderbilt was in the news, it was publicizing the university policy of active recruitment for Jewish students:
[url=http://www.nando.net/nation/story/400528p-3188904c.html]http://www.nando.net/nation/story/400528p-...p-3188904c.html[/url]
---
### Faust
*2002-07-23 04:53* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
New Review of The New White Nationalism, by Carol M. Swain
**The Chronicle of Higher Education** had an article on **The New White Nationalism in America** by Carol M. Swain.
The Chronicle of Higher Education
[url=http://chronicle.com/]http://chronicle.com/[/url]
---
### jay
*2002-07-23 20:46* | [User Profile](/od/user/159)
> *Originally posted by weisbrot*@Jul 8 2002, 11:55
**they are even more dangerous. The peril lies in the insidious appeal of their message.
ââ¬ÅThe groups that are a threat are the ones that argue in favor of white self-determination, white pride, and white civil rights,ââ¬Â Swain said.**
What is wrong with any of those 3 ideas?
How dare whites demand self-determination, show pride, or have civil rights!!!!!!
---
### Frederick William I
*2002-07-24 00:35* | [User Profile](/od/user/58)
> *Originally posted by jay*@Jul 23 2002, 20:46
**
What is wrong with any of those 3 ideas?
How dare whites demand self-determination, show pride, or have civil rights!!!!!!**
Don't you see? These concepts are just "code words" for white supremacists to put in the gas chambers, according to campus leftists, neocons, and good Freepers alike.
Of course when multicults and minorities say the opposite, that they need to destroy white racist America, these are just code words for "we need to peacefully establish tolerence, equality, and justice for all".
---
### N.B. Forrest
*2002-07-24 05:49* | [User Profile](/od/user/53)
> *Originally posted by il ragno*@May 7 2002, 21:25
**> **Their members are not blue-collar rednecks but are likely to be college-educated, financially secure, middle-class Americans**
Anybody else as tired of 'divide and conquer' as I am? To paraphrase Dubya, *let us leave no white behind*.
This smacks of the same elitist bastards who got us INTO this mess. Here, take this knife, and stick it into the backs of 'blue collar rednecks'. Then and only then will we 'accept' you as respectable white nationalists fit to sit at the same table as these 'surprising' Jewish individuals! Already they're in and drawing lines of demarcation - the slope-browed, subhuman 'redneck' who says 'ni**er' on one side of the divide; and the suburban Jew who'd prefer not to have *those people* bringing down the property values on the other. God *damn!*
That's funny: when it was just gentiles worrying about their property values, we were ALL 'rednecks' and 'haters'. Now that there's a new 'smarter, sophisticated' element in the mix, the door to polite society is slightly ajar. But no 'rednecks', please. Try to forget that those moronic 'rednecks' are, in all likelihood, your parents & grandparents. If you want to be part of the SEXY new 'White Nationalism', just...y'know...forget all that. Forget those people. You can't **use** such people to get anywhere important.
Just suck up to power, and for God's sake remember not to call them 'rednecks' when marshalling support for Israel among the evangelical redn- err, 'Christians'.
Pass.**
Excellent post, my friend. I was gonna jump on that sneering remark, but you beat me to it.
:D
---
### Faust
*2002-07-29 18:12* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
More on Carol Swain:
[url=http://www.tennessean.com/opinion/columnists/lewis/archives/02/07/20349225.shtml?Element_ID=20349225]http://www.tennessean.com/opinion/columnis...ent_ID=20349225[/url]
---
### Frederick William I
*2002-08-01 04:09* | [User Profile](/od/user/58)
> *Originally posted by Faust*@Jul 23 2002, 04:53
**New Review of The New White Nationalism, by Carol M. Swain
**The Chronicle of Higher Education** had an article on **The New White Nationalism in America** by Carol M. Swain.
The Chronicle of Higher Education
[url=http://chronicle.com/]http://chronicle.com/[/url]**
You don't have a solid link to the Swaim article do you? I can't seem to find that just browsing through that wonderful academic stuff.
---
### Faust
*2002-08-01 14:50* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
Frederick William I,
*You don't have a solid link to the Swaim article do you? I can't seem to find that just browsing through that wonderful academic stuff.*
**Sorry about that, but the site does not let one read much of anything if you do not have a subscription. People with subscription have a password to let them read articles on the site. I do not have a subscription, I read the paper copy. The article did not say much that had not been said before in the articles with good links.**
---
### Faust
*2002-11-02 03:50* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
"Racism" Debate, Jared Taylor vs. Carol Swain at Vanderbilt U
Taylor to Debate at Vandy
AR editor Jared Taylor will appear in a debate at the Vanderbilt University Law School on November 5, 2002. The debate, sponsored by Prof. Carol Swain, is open to the public. See the invitation from Mr. Taylor.
American Renaissance
[url=http://www.amren.com/]http://www.amren.com/[/url]
An Invitation from
Jared Taylor
Vanderbilt Seal Picture:
[url=http://www.amren.com/images/seal.gif]http://www.amren.com/images/seal.gif[/url]
I am writing to AR readers in the Nashville area to let you know that I will be speaking in Nashville on Tuesday, November 5, at Vanderbilt University. I will be debating an "anti-racist" by the name of Tim Wise on the subject of "Racial Unity or Racial Separation," in an event sponsored by Carol Swain of Vanderbilt Law School. I invite you to attend.
The event is scheduled for 4:30 to 6:00 p.m. in the "Alumni Room" on the Vanderbilt campus. Please telephone Prof. Swain's assistant Kelley Walker at (615) 322-0026 for details about the location. There is to be a reception after the debate, and I would be pleased to see you there.
url:
[url=http://www.amren.com/invitation.htm]http://www.amren.com/invitation.htm[/url]
---
### Faust
*2002-11-02 04:50* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
More Stuff on this subject:
"Backlash building in white America"
In her new book, "The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration," Vanderbilt University professor Carol Swain "infuriates her critics," says the Chronicle of Higher Education, by arguing "that society should combat white nationalists in part by acknowledging the legitimacy of some of their grievances" specifically by abolishing affirmative action and reducing immigration.
url: [url=http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20021016-84164788.htm]http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20021016-84164788.htm[/url]
Reviewed by Scott McConnell
[url=http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4051]http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...cle.asp?ID=4051[/url]
Related threads:
"Backlash building in white America"
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=3858&hl=swain]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=3858&hl=swain[/url]
Review of the Book - The New White Nationalism
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=1068&hl=swaim]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=1068&hl=swaim[/url]
---
### Fliegende Hollander
*2002-11-02 18:14* | [User Profile](/od/user/68)
Here's some more detail, including some background on the whigger ( or more likely a "chosenite") Jared Taylor will debate. Vanderbilt has a college radio station, but it only appears to play music selected by students playing DJ. I had hoped the debate might be webcast.
[url=http://law.vanderbilt.edu/about/news/2002/10_28.html]http://law.vanderbilt.edu/about/news/2002/10_28.html[/url]
American Race Relations the Subject of Debate at VULS
November 5, 2002
4:30 p.m.
Alumni Room
Susanne Loftis
Activists on two sides of the racial divide will come together at Vanderbilt University Law School on Nov. 5 to debate the future of American race relations.
Jared Taylor, president of the New Century Foundation, a non-profit think tank that studies questions relating to race and immigration, and Tim Wise, one of the most prominent antiracist voices in the country, will participate in a forum titled ââ¬ÅThe New White Nationalism in America: Legitimate Movement or Racist Supremacy?ââ¬Â It was organized and will be moderated by Vanderbilt law professor Carol Swain, author of The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration.
The event, which starts at 4:30 p.m., will be held in the Alumni Room of the Vanderbilt University Law School at 131 21st Ave. S. It is free and open to the public. A reception with Taylor and Wise will follow the debate.
The format of the event will provide for both uninterrupted statements by the two opponents on the issue of race relations as well as open debate. Each participant will make an opening statement, followed by an exchange between the two and closing statements. The audience then will be invited to pose questions to Taylor and Wise.
Taylor has been editor of American Renaissance magazine since 1991. He is a former contributing editor of PC Magazine and also was a lending officer with Manufacturers Hanover Trust Co. in New York and Tokyo. He is a sought-after lecturer and widely published author, having written numerous articles, essays and books. Taylorââ¬â¢s books include The Real American Dilemma: Race, Immigration, and the Future of America and Paved with Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary America. He earned his bachelorââ¬â¢s degree in philosophy from Yale University and his masterââ¬â¢s degree in international economics from the Institut dââ¬â¢Etudes Politiques de Paris.
A frequent lecturer and a public advocate for human and civil rights for the last two decades, Wise has been called ââ¬Åthe foremost white, antiracist intellectual and activist in the nation.ââ¬Â He serves as an adviser to the Fisk University Race Relations Institute and is the former associate director of the Louisiana Coalition Against Racism and Nazism, the group credited by many with the political defeat of David Duke. He is the author of numerous essays and several books, including Great White Hoax: Responding to David Duke and the Politics of White Nationalism and the forthcoming collection of essays, Speaking Treason Fluently: Anti-Racist Reflections from an Angry White Male. He earned his bachelorââ¬â¢s degree in political science from Tulane University.
Related Articles: Effect of Race on Wealth the Subject of Interdisciplinary, Multi-Institutional Research Circle
---
### Faust
*2002-11-03 04:16* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
Fliegende Hollander,
Thanks for the Article.
What...
*(It) will be moderated by Vanderbilt law professor Carol Swain* :o
Jared Taylor is a brave man. Makes one think Martin Luther and John Huss going to their great debates.
He has done this kind of thing before.
Black Entertainment's BET Tonight, discussing racial profiling
[url=http://www.amren.com/bettonight.asx]http://www.amren.com/bettonight.asx[/url]
Queen Latifah Show Subject: Racial Profiling Wed., Dec. 13, 2000
[url=http://www.amren.com/jaredlatifah.ram]http://www.amren.com/jaredlatifah.ram[/url]
---
### Feric Jaggar
*2002-11-03 17:17* | [User Profile](/od/user/84)
> *Originally posted by Faust*@Nov 1 2002, 23:50
**In her new book, "The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration," Vanderbilt University professor Carol Swain "infuriates her critics...**
Found this book at a used bookstore and bought it. The first half is a pretty good read in that it looks at several racialist leaders, interviewing them and letting them articulate their own beliefs.
Problems:
Swain, or whomever wrote this for her, talks about curbing immingration and affirmative action and addressing the issues of race in crime in order to take these issues out of the hands of these horrible racists to prevent them from coming to power. My problem is that she never really says why a racialist party with any power would be a threat to the US. My guess is that any white racialist who gained Congress, or a governorship, etc, would simply attempt to enact the restrictions she herself has offered up (ie reducing immigration, curbing aff. action, etc). Instead she seems to fear that as soon as any racialist gets 51% of the vote then the concentration camps will leap into existance and blacks will swing from every lamppost. She gives in completely to the myth of white racialists as unchained monsters waiting to devour any non-Nordic within their sights and offers no facts to back up that notion.
But if she "infuriates her critics" then I'm happy enough.
---
### Okiereddust
*2002-11-03 22:07* | [User Profile](/od/user/29)
> *Originally posted by Feric Jaggar*@Nov 3 2002, 17:17
**My problem is that she never really says why a racialist party with any power would be a threat to the US. My guess is that any white racialist who gained Congress, or a governorship, etc, would simply attempt to enact the restrictions she herself has offered up (ie reducing immigration, curbing aff. action, etc). Instead she seems to fear that as soon as any racialist gets 51% of the vote then the concentration camps will leap into existance and blacks will swing from every lamppost. She gives in completely to the myth of white racialists as unchained monsters waiting to devour any non-Nordic within their sights and offers no facts to back up that notion. **
With the likes of Alex Linder, people like 14/88 people (i.e. adherents of Bob Mathews') philosophy of violent revolution) and other similar types active, don't you think there seem to be legitimate grounds for concern there?
That is why we are so wet with regard to these types of people, who either implicitely or explitely advocate, endorse, and sometimes sponsor violence, advocate dictatorship, and oppose democracy.
---
### Sporon
*2002-11-03 23:53* | [User Profile](/od/user/188)
The NWO is being built by carving up and cannibalising White society. Of course non-whites do have a lot to fear from a re-forging of the traditional links between race and nation, which is why they react with visceral hatred when the idea is mentioned. In Israel you have to be Jew to become an Israeli. In China you have to have Chinese ancestry to become a Chinaman. (When Hong Kong was returned to China many East Indians who had lived there for years, were told they would have to leave.) Outside of traditionally white nations the idea of judging people without regard to race is dismissed as stupidity. Michael Levin pointed out that "race" is a characteristic of individuals anyway, and that a category containing only one individual wouldn't categorise. When you look at someone, observe his racial characteristics, and infer other qualities, you are actually juding that person as an individual (possessing a certain combination of racial characteristics, like all individuals do). Its also the case that many characteristics of individuals will only emerge in certain environments. A single Roman far a way from Rome will not act as Romans do in Rome. A lone member of some race surrounded by members of another race may not act in a racially characteristic manner. The racially characteristic behaviour will only begin to manifest once other members of his race are present. This is one of the reasons why politically correct people aren't bothered by that "nice" immigrant family down the street. That this "nice" family may serve as a plant for an entire ethnicity that will, once firmly established, participate energetically in the dispossession of whites, does not seem to occur to many starry-eyed Whites. Any white person who expresses the view that a nation is an ethnocultural entity, threatens this "progress" and will thereby draw intense hatred from both starry-eyed Whites and "nice" immigrant families.
Feric Jaggar, do you understand Ms. Swain a little better now?
---
### N.B. Forrest
*2002-11-04 02:21* | [User Profile](/od/user/53)
**That is why we are so wet with regard to these types of people, who either implicitely or explitely advocate, endorse, and sometimes sponsor violence, advocate dictatorship, and oppose democracy.**
I personally don't give a damn what Swain, Wise and all that ilk think of White nationalists in general or me in particular because they are the enemy. I figure that if the enemy doesn't hate you and everything you stand for, you're just not doing your job.
Concerning "democracy", America was never meant to be one, and the brand practiced today is a sham anyway - witness the upcoming non-choice.
And as for violence, I wish it could be avoided, but I really don't see how it will be in the long run. The jews & their lackeys have got their hooks so deep in our flesh, it's almost certain to cause massive blood loss when we remove them.
---
### Feric Jaggar
*2002-11-04 04:55* | [User Profile](/od/user/84)
I suppose my point in re: to Swain is that even if some rabid, violence-loving, skinhead were elected, say, to the House of Representatives, he would have no power to effect any violent or dangerous actions upon those within his power as the checks/balances bureaucracy and judicial system would get him at every turn. In other words, Swain acts as if were a racist to gain any power, heads would roll. I don't see that being a likely outcome even if they were elected in large numbers or even if they wanted to kill, maim, loot and pillage. Again the courts and the bureaucrats would intervene. Sure a violent reaction is possible, but elected officials are not needed for that (except maybe as targets).
Sporon, I don't disagree that Swain is an enemy. I think Griffin put it well at the [url=http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no3/rsg-swain.html]Occidental Quarterly[/url] web site with his review of the book. I ask the impossible, that she create a cogent and detailed critique of what she fears.
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### Faust
*2002-11-04 06:01* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
**Are any Original Dissent members planning to go?**
---
### amundsen
*2002-11-05 04:27* | [User Profile](/od/user/5)
> *Originally posted by Feric Jaggar*@Nov 3 2002, 23:55
**... he would have no power to effect any violent or dangerous actions upon those within his power as the checks/balances bureaucracy and judicial system would get him at every turn.**
There was no check or balance to stop, or render justice after, Waco and Ruby Ridge. The only check to the system is the unwillingness of citizens to submit. If we were unwilling to submit such tradgedies would never happen. Government will always push, the question is do we yield.
Currently, white males are the most willing to submit, women and minorities are the least likely. Until that changes, nothing at all will change. Anyway, I can not conceive of white nationalists getting elected in any numbers. Women and minority votes will prohibit that. The only way they will have power is by seizing power.
---
### Feric Jaggar
*2002-11-05 13:39* | [User Profile](/od/user/84)
> *Originally posted by amundsen*@Nov 4 2002, 23:27
**Anyway, I can not conceive of white nationalists getting elected in any numbers. Women and minority votes will prohibit that. The only way they will have power is by seizing power.**
I can conceive of white males voting *en masse* before I can conceive of them killing *en masse*. [url=http://www.vdare.com/sailer/conservatives.htm]Steve Sailer[/url] points out how much easier it would be for politicians to win by courting whites than by sniffing after blacks and mexies. You can bet his findings were not published widely. But white politicians will figure it out. Whites will risk their votes before they'll risk their lives. The 1994 election saw waves of whites moving out of the Democratic party and into the Republican. The next major realignment will be out of the Republican and into a more caucasion-philic third party. This party may never have enough clout to take the White House (like amundsen said, many women and most minorities will oppose it) but they will gain power by reaching (in whites names) for that shrinking piece of the federal pie. Remember, third parties are all about whites. Almost no nonwhites supported Ross Perot or his Reform Party, the same goes for Buchanan, Ventura, or Ralph Nader and his Green Party.
Armed revolution may be in the wings, but I promise it won't be for at least another 50 years. (I enjoy studying the post-WWII historical racial right--GLRockwell, et al, and back in the late 50s and early 60s a great many on the right were sure the revolution would come no later than the mid 1970s, read the fictitious book The Franklin Papers (after which the Turner Diaries were modelled), written in 1959, for more info.)
One thing I'm sure we can agree on. Whites will not wake up as long as they can stay fat and happy (panem et cirences).
---
### Feric Jaggar
*2002-11-06 02:46* | [User Profile](/od/user/84)
> *Originally posted by AntiYuppie*@Nov 5 2002, 19:03
**The reason I believe that the "blue collar redneck" incarnations of the WN movement should be worked with but kept at arms length is because recent political history has shown us that a top down approach is more successful than a grassroots bottom up approach. Neoconservatism seized control of the establishment Right not by virtue of its nonexistent popular support, but rather by its success among the NYC "intelligentsia."
In a world where grassroots politics is becoming increasingly irrelevant due to the fact that only those who have the mass media resources can get the media out, it is imperative for there to be a "respectable" version of white nationalism, Jared Taylor being one such example. While I don't approve of his hobnobbing with Jews and courting philosemitic elements on the Right, I do think that Taylor performs a valuable PR service for racialism. With men like Taylor (or for that matter David Duke), it is impossible for leftists and Jews to "refute" white racialism by claiming that it's a half-baked ideology created by foaming at the mouth, ignorant illiterates. And more important than having this point in argument is the fact that only white collar white nationalism stands of chance of making it onto the airwaves and getting the message out.**
I wish I had said that. :)
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### Roy Batty
*2002-11-06 05:00* | [User Profile](/od/user/55)
> *Originally posted by Feric Jaggar*@Nov 5 2002, 13:39
**
Armed revolution may be in the wings, but I promise it won't be for at least another 50 years. (I enjoy studying the post-WWII historical racial right--GLRockwell, et al, and back in the late 50s and early 60s a great many on the right were sure the revolution would come no later than the mid 1970s, read the fictitious book The Franklin Papers (after which the Turner Diaries were modelled), written in 1959, for more info.)
One thing I'm sure we can agree on. Whites will not wake up as long as they can stay fat and happy (panem et cirences).**
FJ - I believe a white "revolution" is in the wings, a violent white revolution, but I don't think it's as far off as you think it is. I do agree that the majority of whites will remain unaware/disinterested as long as the checks are rolling in and they can spend time figuring out the line on the weekend's games.
BUT, I believe certain events are occuring at an ever increasing rate, and a massive economic collapse is not far off. The current problems are not what I am talking about, but THE BIG ONE, a huge financial mess, is on the horizon. When that happens, you will see things fall apart and reconstitute quickly. Very quickly. I would bet it's from about 10 years off to 20 years at the very outside. Economic collapse will lead to whites being forced to stand and deliver in the most brutal fashion. I'll wager that many whites will be squashed, at first, due to generations of semitic brainwashing, disabling their fighting attitudes and natural aggression. But, as things progressively get worse, and getting clean drinking water becomes a battle, expect the browns and blacks to be on the run, with hymie not far behind, because whites will finally listen to the explanations of just who is responsible. The traitorous elites will be on the run as well, since the military will no doubt break down along racial lines, with the non-whites being scorched and the phony top brass receiving more brass to the base of their skulls. Sounds like some fantasy, I know, but I have no doubt it's going to happen. Brutal, sad, messy. But all for the best, as it is possible, quite likely in fact, a new "America" will be born. One that hopefully will be able to keep the lessons of what happened and why at the forefront of every decision.
The numbers of third worlders are not the real problem. They can be cleared out of this country rather quickly. As to the methods used, well, one can ponder them endlessly, but keep in mind what they have been doing to us, and what they want to do to us. As for the third world population on the rest of the planet ... it will drop massively within 2 - 3 years without white money and aid. And they deserve it.
Finally, it is no doubt beneficial to have someone that comes off "reasonable", like Taylor, visible in the media. However, in time, he will have to take a stand and name ALL the enemies, and ALL the reasons for America's and the West's decline. He is too intelligent a man NOT to believe the extent to which the hateful aliens, posing as "the chosen", are responsible.
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### Faust
*2002-11-09 02:52* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
Are any Original Dissent members planning to go?
Also as Wintermute said:
Will there be a transcript?
Related threads:
"Backlash building in white America"
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=3858]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=ST&f=6&t=3858[/url]
Review of the Book - The New White Nationalism
[url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=1068&hl=swaim]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=1068&hl=swaim[/url]
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### Faust
*2002-11-17 03:04* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
Taylor Debates at Vandy
11/06/02
AR editor Jared Taylor appeared in a debate at the Vanderbilt University
Law School on November 5, 2002. When an account of the event is available, we will post a link here(AR Home Page).
url: [url=http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/xsl/vanderbilt/Profile.asp?Entity=PRAsset&EntityID=34828&XSL=PressRelease&PublishType=Press+Release]http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/xsl/van...e=Press+Release[/url]
AR Home Page
[url=http://www.amren.com/]http://www.amren.com/[/url]
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### Frederick William I
*2002-11-18 03:13* | [User Profile](/od/user/58)
With all this talk about Carol Swaim's apparently rather poorly written book, I was wondering if anyone had ever heard about what seems to be a much better book *White Power, White Pride* by Betty A. Dobratz and Stephanie L. Shanks-Meile
[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/08]Amazon Book Review of White Power, White Pride[/url]
It is a very good book by most accounts, even according to some of the Linderites, as I recall.
This review was typical of those I read.
[url=http://eserver.org/bs/reviews/2001-11-24-8.27AM.html]Bad Subjects [/url]
> **An October 21st Washington Post article entitled FBI and CIA Suspect Domestic Extremists asserts that federal agents believe right-wing hate groups are responsible for the recent anthrax attacks in the U.S. This should be of particular interest to those of us wondering where the much ballyhooed militia movement disappeared to after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. While a great deal of literature on the militia movement and its historical antecedents was published during the years leading up to this event such as James William Gibson's much written about Warrior Dreams (1994), Michael Barkun's Religion and the Racist Right (1994) and the paperback edition of James Aho's groundbreaking sociological study of the Christian Identity movement The Politics of Rigtheousness (1995), there have been very few published works attempting to discuss the significance of racist social movements in any detail since the mid-1990s. Thus, despite how depressing the conclusions of studies such as Dobratz and Shanks-Meile's contribution to this body of scholarship, the publication of White Power, White Pride could not arrive at a more appropriate time.
White Power traces the development of racist, anti-semitic American hate groups, locating and analyzing them in historical context. The use of the term 'white separatist' allows the authors to group together the KKK, neo-Nazis, skinheads and the various Christian Identity movements with stereotypical right- wing militias. Dobratz and Shanks-Meile present the groupsââ¬â¢ ideologies, use of protest and violence and try to develop a political economy of white supremacy. The bookââ¬â¢s only weakness lies in the authorsââ¬â¢ development of an overly sympathetic relationship with some of the members. This sympathy, however gives the reader enormous insight into the thoughts and psychology of these abhorrent hate groups.
Race hatred in America has quite a colorful history. The KKK was founded in Pulaski, Tennessee in 1865 by former Confederate soldiers. Its second incarnation in the twenties and thirties was a mass movement estimated to be anywhere from two to eight million members. President Warren Harding, Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black , Chief Justice Edward White, and possibly President Truman were members of this second phase. Contemporary factions of the Klan began after World War II, evolving into David Dukeââ¬â¢s mainstream National Klan, which included amongst its membership the insidious Tom Metzger, who left to form the California Klan, and finally, White Aryan Resistance. The authors also expose the history and ideologies of the American Nazi Party, the NSWPP, Dr. William Pierce and the National Alliance, the National Socialist Party of America, the National Socialist German Workers Party, the SS Action Group, Confederate Northern and Eastern Hammerskins.
Christian Identity movements, however, lie at the heart of White Power. These movements link white separatist organizations with fundamentalist Christians and right-wing militias. Christian racists, they maintain that "Aryans" are the lost tribes of Israel, Jews are direct descendants of Satan, and the world is on the verge of an apocalypse in which the good Aryans will battle the evil Jews and ZOG (the Zionist Occupation Government.) These ludicrous beliefs, however, underlie a fanatic militancy. From the Aryan Nationsââ¬â¢ prison branch The Orderââ¬â¢s hijacking and armed robbery of a bank truck in Northern California, (netting 3 million dollars), to Tom Metzgerââ¬â¢s incitement of racist skinsââ¬â¢ to murder Ethiopian immigrant Mulugeta Seraw in Portland, Oregon in 1988 make for a fascinating portrait of an increasingly violent, ideologically complex community that cannot be ignored.
Perhaps the best part about White Power is the fact that the authors never lapse into the sensationalism all too common in literature about racialist movements such as James Ridgeway's Blood in the Face and much of the armchair "hate culture" analysis pushed by organizations such as the Anti- Defamation League. Dobratz and Shanks-Meile attempt and succeed in locating the movement in a socio-economic context while tying together apparently disparate movement elements. Hysterical federal government reactions to Waco, Ruby Ridge and other incidents strengthen their mutant viewpoints. As Metzger points out, white separatists permeate all levels and socio-economic strata of American society including top members of the U.S. government and multi-national corporations. This book is an essential addition to any library on race, ethnicity and inter-ethnic relations. My only gripe is that the authors' never really develop a political economy of white separatism, but instead provide a compelling historical class analysis of the white power movement. **
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### Faust
*2002-11-18 13:57* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
The New White
Nationalism In America
For essays concerning your right to keep and bear arms go to www.SecondAmendment.net
Prof. Carol Swain?s 526 page tome, The New White Nationalism In America (Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-80886-3) has as a subtitle ?Its Challenge To Integration.? It?s nice to know that something presents a challenge to a practice that has to be forced down people?s throats. All-white communities don?t improve when significant numbers of blacks, Mestizos, or Hmongs move in, and ?white flight? has never been a response to lower crime rates and better schools. Given the deterioration of once all-white communities which have been racially integrated European-Americans are justified in not wanting to associate with people whose rates of violent crime, drug abuse, venereal disease, illegitimacy, and welfare dependancy are much higher than their own. Does something threaten a practice that causes European-Americans to suffer? It?s about time.
The inside of the dust cover describes the book as ?a wake-up call to all Americans who cherish the civil rights era vision of an integrated America, a common humanity, and equality before God and the law.? Only aging white liberals whose money has insulated them from the effects of integration still cherish such a vision. All of the blacks who long for an America where skin color is irrelevant could fit into a McDonald?s. Talk about a color-blind society is, and always has been, just rhetoric. European-Americans are expected to behave as if there are no differences between the races and racial discrimination is a sin, while non-whites work overtime to advance their respective group interests. Just what is so wonderful about a vision of an integrated America, anyway, and why should European-Americans cherish it? It may be a rosy one to non-whites like Prof. Swain, but the reality of integration is far different for those who must suffer the consequences of increased crime, deteriorating schools, and higher taxes. European-Americans are wising up to the con and, as the dust cover states, ?multiculturalism has provided white nationalists with justification for advocating a parallel form of white solidarity,? as if solidarity is okay for non-whites, but something to worry about when European-Americans start thinking in such terms.
So much for the dust cover, which mysteriously does not have a photograph of the author. (She?s black.) The rest of the book reveals that the current crop of white nationalists are not gap-toothed, tobacco-chewing yahoos from central casting and that they are to a great extent extremely well-educated, with ?fresh-faced converts from academia including Professors Michael H. Hart, Michael Levin, J. Phillipe Rushton, and [the late] Glayde Whitney.? This should come as no great surprise since many of the ideas espoused by white nationalists were considered mainstream before so many Americans succumbed to the myths of egalitarianism.
What really concerns Prof. Swain is that many white nationalists are computer savvy and all over the Internet ? the one mass communication medium which requires no great capital investment and reaches world wide. In the chapter on ?White Nationalist Recruitment In America? Prof. Swain discusses the great use to which white nationalists have put the Internet to disseminate ideas that would never make it onto an editorial page. This is where her statist colors are unfurled. She complains (p. 331) that ?recruiting teenagers through the Internet is not legally restricted, nor is the access of minors to sites with racist or otherwise disturbing contents forbidden, although some parents may purchase blocking software for their homes.? (The Anti Defamation League of B?nai B?rith gives away its own version called HATE FILTER 2.0.) The professor is also disappointed that, ?restricting content on the Internet in any capacity may prove to be a legally insurmountable challenge regardless of how dangerous a site?s content is.?
Much of the 472 pages of text is taken up by tired recitations of how people feel about race relations which, considering that European-Americans don?t like being shafted, is not very good. The discussion of public attitudes seems irrelevant to the nuts and bolts of the white nationalist movement unless the reader takes into account that our struggle is not one of violence, but of ideas. The index to the book contains no entries under the heading ?violence?, but nine under ?white nationalist websites.?
Is this book a waste of $30.00? Actually not, since the chapter on ?Concluding Observations And Policy Recommendations? contains some admissions by a black professor at a prestigious university which white nationalists can use to deflect charges that we are evil incarnate. (Hey, this black law professor is complaining about the same thing. Are you saying she's a bigot?) As an example, Prof. Swain acknowledges (p. 430) the existence of "racial double standards" in such things as the reporting of black crime rates and "liberties with speech that allow African Americans to verbally assault and slander whites with racial epithets and false charges without suffering any serious loss of respect or any financial or social damage in the public arena." By suggesting that the reduction of the black crime rate be made America's number one issue (p. 443), the professor implicitly acknowledges that the desire of European-Americans to segregate themselves is nothing to be ashamed of. (Of course, reducing the black crime rate to anything near that of Caucasians is a biological impossibility.) The professor?s call for black political and religious leaders "to take their share of the responsibility for making sure that crime reduction is the number-one priority of African Americans" (p. 445) is a knee-slapper should evoke almost as much laughter as her suggestion that African Americans' religious faith be used as a tool to change behavior. (p. 453)
?Mean-spirited? is a smear used against anyone who candidly discusses the social pathologies for which the black community is infamous. Nice people are supposed to tippy toe around and not use bad words that might hurt people?s feeling. Either the proof reader was having a bad day or Prof. Swain lapsed into candor, but how often to you hear blacks using the phrase "riotous behavior" to describe riots (p. 446) or "scandalously high black illegitimacy rate" to describe illegitimate births (p. 451)? No euphemisms there. The professor probably has tenure.
Prof. Swain also recommends that ?We need to address and acknowledge in appropriate venues any legitimate public policy concerns that white nationalists and white conservative raise which governmental official and other elites presently ignore.? In reality that suggestion is going to get about as much traction as her recommendation that we ?End all racial preferences in employment and promotion situations.? If European-Americans were to candidly address the problems created by integration the United States might end up with a system of apartheid such as currently practiced in Israel.
If you can access this book via your library it?s worth checking out, but I would spend the $30.00 cover price on a year?s subscription to American Renaissance whose website is at www.amren.com.
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### Faust
*2002-11-19 14:11* | [User Profile](/od/user/60)
I take it no Original Dissent members made it to the "Racism" Debate, Jared Taylor vs. Carol Swain?
Related theread:
**Gentleman Jared offends a chicana.**
url: [url=http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=4478]http://forum.originaldissent.com/index.php...t=ST&f=6&t=4478[/url]
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### Feric Jaggar
*2002-11-19 17:24* | [User Profile](/od/user/84)
> *Originally posted by Faust*@Nov 19 2002, 09:11
**I take no Original Dissent made it to the "Racism" Debate, Jared Taylor vs. Carol Swain?**
[insert nighttime sound of crickets softly chirping]
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