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Thread ID: 3264 | Posts: 8 | Started: 2002-10-28
2002-10-28 21:02 | User Profile
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Monday, October 28, 2002 ÷ Last updated 11:27 a.m. PT
[url=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printer/ap.asp?category=1103&slug=Vatican%20Jews]Vatican: Jews Are Our Brothers[/url]
By NICOLE WINFIELD ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
ROME -- A top Vatican cardinal reaffirmed Monday that the Roman Catholic Church was more committed than ever to improving relations with Jews in a speech marking the anniversary of a major Second Vatican Council document on the issue.
Cardinal Walter Kasper, the Vatican official in charge of relations with Jews, told a conference of prelates and rabbis that after 2,000 years of antagonism, Catholics and Jews may still disagree - but that they do so as brothers.
"Maybe on some issues they will let us down or we will let them down. But fraternity is precisely this contact, where one listens to the heart of the other as if it were his own heart," Kasper said.
The conference commemorated the 37th anniversary of the document "Nostra Aetate," Latin for "In Our Time," which was drafted during the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meeting that modernized the Church.
In it, the Vatican deplored anti-Semitism in every form and repudiated the "deicide" charge that blamed Jews as a people for Christ's crucifixion. The document also affirmed that Jesus, the apostles and most of his early followers were Jews, and that God has not revoked his covenant with Jews.
The anniversary was celebrated amid fresh debate over the Vatican's attitude toward Jews that was sparked by a recent, unofficial document saying it was no longer theologically acceptable for the Church to target Jews for conversion.
The document was drafted by a group of American Catholic and Jewish scholars and published on the Web site of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which had appointed the group along with the National Council of Synagogues.
In "Reflections on Covenant and Mission," the scholars cited "Nostra Aetate" in arguing that dialogue with Jews - not conversion - should be the goal of the Church.
"In view of our conviction that Jews are in an eternal covenant with God, we renounce missionary efforts directed at converting Jews," the scholars wrote.
The document, which made headlines when it was released Aug. 12, prompted a recent rebuttal by Cardinal Avery Dulles, a top American theologian who argued Catholics had a God-given right and duty to convert Jews as well as anyone else.
"Once we grant that there are some persons for whom it is not important to acknowledge Christ, to be baptized and to receive the sacraments, we raise questions about our own religious life," Dulles wrote in the Oct. 21 issue of America, the Jesuit magazine.
"Our Jewish brothers and sisters could question our sincerity if we were to tell them that the blessings of the New Covenant need not concern them," he added.
Kasper didn't refer to the debate in his comments to the conference Monday, which was organized by the Dionysia Center, a Rome-based cultural center that promotes dialogue among religions and peoples.
But a top Jewish scholar, Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, noted that prejudices remain and the Catholic Church was in an "almost impossible" position when it came to dealing with the Jews.
"It's very hard to be somebody's heir when he's still alive," Steinsaltz told the audience of academics, students and Catholic and Jewish representatives.
While saying he was hopeful for more progress in improving relations, the rabbi - a noted scholar and founder of several Talmudic institutions in Israel and Russia - said there was a reason for the strain between Catholics and Jews.
"Basically, monotheistic religions cannot be tolerant," he said. "When you speak about truth ... Can you speak about two truths?"
"Basically, monotheistic religions cannot be tolerant," he said. "When you speak about truth ... Can you speak about two truths?"
Jew Steinsaltz has a very revealing comment there. Jews don't have to be tolerant, apparently. Everyone else does, though.
2002-10-28 21:52 | User Profile
Originally posted by PaleoconAvatar@Oct 28 2002, 16:02 ** "In view of our conviction that Jews are in an eternal covenant with God, we renounce missionary efforts directed at converting Jews," the scholars wrote. **
Doesn't quite jive with that pesky Bible though, eh? Romans says how Jews (as branches) were cut off the tree and Christians grafted in. Jews can be saved but **only** through Christ.
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
*...Cardinal Fang! Get...the Comfy Chair!!!!!..... :P *
2002-10-28 22:02 | User Profile
** Doesn't quite jive with that pesky Bible though, eh? Romans says how Jews (as branches) were cut off the tree and Christians grafted in. Jews can be saved but only through Christ.**
To believe this we first have to believe that Jews had a special covenant with God. What reason do we have to believe it? If Jews have no special covenant with God then how can they be "cut off the tree" anyway?
2002-10-28 22:06 | User Profile
"In view of our conviction that Jews are in an eternal covenant with God, we renounce missionary efforts directed at converting Jews," the scholars wrote.
Say what you will about Protestants, the day the Southern Baptist Convention comes out with that kind of statement is the day I leave the SBC.
Amazing.
2002-10-28 22:09 | User Profile
Originally posted by Sporon@Oct 28 2002, 22:02 To believe this we first have to believe that Jews had a special covenant with God. What reason do we have to believe it?
Scary territory there, Sporon.
The reason we have to believe it is Jewish say-so, which oddly enough is the same reason we have to believe in multiculturalism, wide-open borders, the holocaust... face it, Jewish say-so covers a lot of ground.
2002-10-28 22:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by Ragnar@Oct 28 2002, 16:09 **Scary territory there, Sporon.
The reason we have to believe it is Jewish say-so, which oddly enough is the same reason we have to believe in multiculturalism, wide-open borders, the holocaust... face it, Jewish say-so covers a lot of ground.**
Ragnar, I agree. I tend to feel that no one can claim a special covenant with God. When it comes to spiritual matters, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. A great spiritual man will demonstrate it through his words and deeds, and the same is true of a great spiritual people. Citing passages from holy books in no way contitutes proof of spiritual greatness. If anything that may serve as evidence of the reverse proposition.
2002-10-28 22:27 | User Profile
Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Oct 28 2002, 22:06 > "In view of our conviction that Jews are in an eternal covenant with God, we renounce missionary efforts directed at converting Jews," the scholars wrote.**
Say what you will about Protestants, the day the Southern Baptist Convention comes out with that kind of statement is the day I leave the SBC.
Amazing.**
To be clear, the Catholic Church did not say this. A bunch of "scholars" did. *Domine Iesus* remains the latest official word, and it insists that there is no salvation except through Christ and His Church.
Best, P
2002-10-28 22:39 | User Profile
Originally posted by Polichinello@Oct 28 2002, 17:27 > Originally posted by Texas Dissident@Oct 28 2002, 22:06 > "In view of our conviction that Jews are in an eternal covenant with God, we renounce missionary efforts directed at converting Jews," the scholars wrote.
Say what you will about Protestants, the day the Southern Baptist Convention comes out with that kind of statement is the day I leave the SBC.
Amazing.**
To be clear, the Catholic Church did not say this. A bunch of "scholars" did. Domine Iesus remains the latest official word, and it insists that there is no salvation except through Christ and His Church.
Best, P**
I suspected as much, but since Catholicism has so many nuances and subplots I was waiting on someone like Juan Cortez or Campion Moore Boru to explain the significance of this statement. But in the meantime since Protestants were given a little nudge on another thread I thought I'd get in a little rhetorical dig for my side. ;) :ph34r: