← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Texas Dissident
Thread ID: 2743 | Posts: 22 | Started: 2002-09-25
2002-09-25 08:19 | User Profile
[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/24/wgibs24.xml]Bravehearted Gibson plans to make film in Latin[/url]
By Hugh Davies, Entertainment Correspondent (Filed: 24/09/2002)
Mel Gibson is to begin work shortly on The Passion, a story of the last 12 hours of Christ, which will be scripted entirely in Latin and Aramaic without sub- titles.
The Hollywood actor, who earned ã27 million last year according to Forbes magazine, is investing his own money in the venture. He said he hoped he would be able to transcend the language barrier with "filmic story-telling".
Gibson, who is a committed Roman Catholic and whose father is a strong advocate of the Latin Mass, freely admits that the venture is commercially risky.
He has arrived in Rome to begin the 10-week shoot, but has yet to find a distributor. No American studio, even Fox where the star's Icon Productions is based, has taken up the rights, despite Gibson's proven track record.
The actor said that he was not surprised. "Obviously, nobody wants to touch something filmed in two dead languages. They think I'm crazy, and maybe I am. But maybe I am a genius.
"I want to show the film without sub-titles. If I fail, I'll put sub-titles on it, though I don't want to."
Bill Fuco, a Los Angeles-based Jesuit linguistics professor, has translated the screenplay and will act as a dialogue coach on the set.
Gibson, 46, the star of Braveheart and Lethal Weapon, has been married to his wife Robyn for 22 years and they have seven children. He describes himself as "an old-fashioned Catholic" and has consulted Vatican officials about the film.
The actor has often told how his faith kept him stable through his wild early days as a drinker and womaniser. His only daughter, Hannah, 21, is joining a religious order.
He said: "I want to show the humanity of Christ, as well as the divine aspect. It is a rendering that for me is very realistic and as close as possible to what I perceive the truth to be."
Declining to reveal the cost, he said: "It is good for the soul, not the wallet."
2002-09-25 11:10 | User Profile
It sounds like a great project.
Unfortunately, although I respect Mel's desire to have the film in the languages of Biblical antiquity (one being the official liturgic language of his church), I won't be able to appreciate the script...seeing as I don't speak Aramaic or Latin. (Oh, this liberal public school education. Hehe.)
2002-09-25 12:45 | User Profile
I'd go see this movie in a heartbeat, sous-titres ou non because of the content and originality of the project. I hope it's made and released. However, good luck Mel, the lemmings would really love this one!?!?
2002-09-26 00:15 | User Profile
"I want to show the film without sub-titles. If I fail, I'll put sub-titles on it, though I don't want to."
I just think there is something very refreshing in this attitude. He wants to do it his way, but he realizes that if that just does not reach people he will compromise. And he does not seem to have the attitude, common to most artists and intellectuals, that if others dont get it the reason is they are too stupid to understand his genius.
I'd like to see it as he intends.
Good luck Mr. Gibson.
2002-09-26 01:40 | User Profile
Don't worry, the DVD will have an English soundtrack!
The NT is written in Greek, not Latin. The Catholic Church needs to get over its love affair with Latin (which is used to obscure the Bible from the masses).
2002-09-26 03:36 | User Profile
HH--
The Catholic Church never had a "love affair" with Latin; it was a part of the Church: the Tridentine Rite. If you wish to call it a "love affair", that "affair" ended in 1969 when the Tridentine was finally abolished and the Mass was now in the vernacular. You're 30+ years behind the times. ;)
2002-09-27 22:00 | User Profile
Sounds like it could be a great film.
Mel Gibson is to begin work shortly on The Passion, a story of the last 12 hours of Christ, which will be scripted entirely in Latin and Aramaic without sub- titles.
I hope show events of The Passion as they are told in the New Testament without any PC nonsense. But if he does the Jewish groupd will go Crazy.
Matthew 27
11And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest. 12And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. 13Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. 15Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would. 16And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? 18For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. 19When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. 20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. 24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. 26Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
2003-01-15 23:06 | User Profile
Anybody watch the O'Reilly factor last night? Mel Gibson was on and it was about him being under attack for his new movie The Passion, O'Reilly asked him if the Jews would be upset and Mel said they might be but he was telling the truth and the truth had to be told.
2003-01-15 23:07 | User Profile
Originally posted by Faust@Sep 27 2002, 22:00 ** I hope show events of The Passion as they are told in the New Testament without any PC nonsense. But if he does the Jewish groupd will go Crazy.
Matthew 27
11And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest. 12And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. 13Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. 15Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would. 16And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? 18For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. 19When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. 20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. 24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. 26Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified. **
you were prophetic
2003-01-15 23:55 | User Profile
Malachi,
I saw that interview as well. Gibson mentioned that there was a reporter snoping around trying to dig up some dirt on him. I suspect-- well, I`ll say know in this case that the reporter has alot of associates that are helping him. Before this is over I believe that the A.D.L. and other Jewish pressure groups will come out and accuse Gibson of being an antisemite. I will bet that the reporter is a member of the tribe. What the reporter is doing has their finger prints all over it.
2003-01-16 02:58 | User Profile
Dunno from Scripture, but a man or woman alone against the hooting, howling mob is almost always in the right.
Interesting to note exactly which group of people have been the fulcrum for that mob for millenia now: orchestrating, conducting, prodding, priming, shoving mis- and dis-information both into the gaping group-maw.
In fact, Lord help the 'mob' they didn't assemble and can't control....they will be annihilated to the last man, if it takes every able bodied son in your household.
2003-01-16 14:26 | User Profile
This movie will never be made.
Also, while the NT is written in Greek, it describes events occuring between people speaking Aramaic and Latin. So Gibson gets points for historical accuracy here.
Who were the ones speaking latin? I'm not trying to be funny here. The aristocratic class of Rome during the time of Christ spoke Attic greek. You could spend a year listening to the debate in the Roman senate and never hear a word of latin. it was all greek and anybody who did not have the proper Attic inflection was looked on as a hopeless rube from the provinces - even if he was a consul.
Did Pilate speak Latin when he addressed the jews?
I tend to doubt it. I suspect he spoke greek or hebrew.
I doubt an educated roman would have bothered to learn Aramaic, which was little more than a regional dialect of hebrew.
2003-01-16 19:39 | User Profile
Let's not be too hasty. If Mel should make it and it succeeds as a cult hit, we can look forward to the Illiad in its original Greek and Gilgamesh in Sumerian. This could start a trend.
2003-01-16 21:00 | User Profile
It doesn't matter how old you are, M - it's never too late to learn Latin.
Agreed. I've been trying to teach myself on and off, and what little I've done has taught me more about English than my English classes. I can say the same of the German courses I took too--many, many years ago.
**Any word on who's been cast as the second Person of the Trinity? **
Jim Cavaziel. He played the Count of Monte Christo and the main character in Thin Red Line whose name escapes me.
Best, P
2003-01-16 21:15 | User Profile
Originally posted by eric von zipper@Jan 16 2003, 08:26 ** This movie will never be made. **
It's already being made. They've been shooting in Italy for quite some time.
[url=http://www.melgibsonnews.com/news/passionmoviepics.html]http://www.melgibsonnews.com/news/passionm...nmoviepics.html[/url]
Your point about Greek is essentially correct. Pilate would have used it to address the crowd as Greek was the trade language of the time and it was particularly so in that area. But there was also a significant Latin influence. Latin manuscripts have been found in the area, and the NT describes the cross as bearing "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" in Greek, Hebrew and Latin. As to Pilate's knowledge of Aramaic, I wouldn't underestimate it. Learning languages was a pretty critical skill for any Roman governor, and Pilate, ruthless as he was, was pretty good at what he did. Despite his bad biblical press, he managed to prevent any uprising from happening during his watch, and he usually did it through skillful political maneuvering, though he wouldn't scruple about knocking heads in either.
Best, P
2003-01-17 01:15 | User Profile
Malachi
Thanks for the update.
Anybody watch the O'Reilly factor last night? Mel Gibson was on and it was about him being under attack for his new movie The Passion, O'Reilly asked him if the Jews would be upset and Mel said they might be but he was telling the truth and the truth had to be told.
I did see this article.
Enemies 'plot against' Mel
16jan03
MEL Gibson has claimed mysterious enemies are plotting against him and harassing his family because he is making a film about Jesus Christ.
The Australian actor and director has just started shooting The Passion in Italy, a Biblical film shot entirely in Latin and Aramaic - the long dead language of the First Testament.
"When you take up a subject like this, it brings out a lot of enemies," he was quoted saying in Britain's Daily Express newspaper.
He said his bank accounts were trawled, his 85-year-old father was approached, and charities he supports investigated because some people were upset about his film.
"Jesus suffered for all of us. It's time to get back to that basic message," he said.
"The world has gone nuts. We could all use a little more love, faith, hope and forgiveness."
He sees The Passion as a religious duty but is no fan of the Vatican.
Cynics claim the film is a "vanity" project for Gibson, who, although a devout Catholic, has called the Vatican a "wolf in sheep's clothing".
"I do not believe in the Church as an institution," he said at a press conference to launch the film.
url: [url=http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5848757%255E10431,00.html]http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...5E10431,00.html[/url]
2003-01-17 04:35 | User Profile
Jan. 16, 2003
Actor Mel Gibson is allegedly being smeared due to a movie about the death of Christ which he is producing.
Quote: "...it's interesting that, when you do touch this subject, it does have a lot of enemies. And there are people sent. I've seen it happening. Since I've been in Rome here, for example, I know that there are people sent from reputable publications who -- they go about, while you're busy over here, they start digging into your private life and sort of getting into your banking affairs and any charities you might be involved in. And then they start bothering your friends and your business associates and harassing your family, including my 85-year-old father. And I find it -- it's a little spooky. " --Mel Gibson
Hollywood star Gibson is allegedly being harassed because he is supposedly making a film that is faithful to the Gospel account of the execution of Christ. Belief in the New Testament is regarded as a death penalty offense by top Halachic authority Moses Maimonides, and as Dr. Israel Shahak and others have documented, the New Testament is burned in the Israeli state. Any movie faithful to the Douay-Rheims or King James account of Christ's death would be regarded as hate propaganda by the rabbis.
It may be that Gibson is beginning to see his reputation attacked by the Beth Din's smearbund. This entails blackmailing Gibson by threatening to expose his octogenarian father Hutton, an unreconstructed Catholic who hews to unflattering views of Judaism and Zionism not in keeping with modern enlightenment on this subject. It will be interesting to see if Gibson's film actually is an honest depiction of the murder of Christ, and if indeed it is, whether or not his career in Hollyweird survives such truth-telling.
O'REILLY: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight: The actor Mel Gibson has been in Italy for months shooting a controversial film that graphically depicts the execution of Jesus. The movie is being financed by Gibson's production company. It's being shot in Aramaic and Latin, the languages used at the time.
Mr. Gibson is a religious man and believes there are some in the media who want to discredit him personally because he's making a pro-Christian film. And, indeed, THE FACTOR has learned that there is a print reporter trying to dig up nasty personal dirt on Gibson. And the guy has even approached his 85-year-old father under questionable circumstances. And, in the interest of full disclosure, Mel Gibson's production company has optioned my novel, "Those Who Trespass." So, I do have a working relationship with him. But I believe this situation is troubling.
I spoke with Mel Gibson yesterday from Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) O'REILLY: Mr. Gibson, I understand the movie you're shooting right now about the death of Jesus of Nazareth is pretty graphic, pretty explicit.
GIBSON: It is, yes. I've never seen a rendering that equals this for reality. It's usually either -- the versions I've seen either suffer from bad hair, inaccurate history, or not just being real.And somehow, because of that, I think I think you're distanced from them somehow. They're more like fairy tales. And this actually happened. It occurred. I'm exploring it this way, I think, to show the extent of the sacrifice willingly taken.
O'REILLY: You're going to make it in Aramaic and Latin, all right, so that no one is going to even understand what's said. The images are going to be explicit and powerful. What is the point?
GIBSON: Well, the point is that I think you can transcend language with the message through image. And I'm very happy with what we're getting.
O'REILLY: Is it going to upset some people to see the person they believe is God brutalized in this manner?
GIBSON: Well, I think anybody that is in the know about Jesus as God and they believe in that realize that he was brutalized and that I'm exploring it this way, I think, to show the extent of the sacrifice willingly taken. But I don't think people -- I think it's going to be hard to take, but I don't necessarily know that people are going to be upset by it.
O'REILLY: Is it going to upset any Jewish people?
GIBSON: It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth. I want to be as truthful as possible. But, when you look at the reasons behind why Christ came, why he was crucified, he died for all mankind and he suffered for all mankind, so that, really, anybody who transgresses has to look at their own part or look at their own culpability. It's time to sort of get back to a basic message, the message that was given. At this time, the world has gone nuts, I think. And this film speaks -- well, Christ spoke of faith, hope, love and forgiveness. And these are things I think we need to be reminded of again. He forgave as he was tortured and killed. And we could do with a little of that behavior.
I mentioned what I was going to do to (director) M. Night Shyamalan. And he thought: "Oh, great. You have the ultimate opportunity to make the perfect anti-date movie." And I said: "No, no, that's not true at all. I think I refer to it as the career-killer film." And I was only half joking at the time. But it's interesting that, when you do touch this subject, it does have a lot of enemies. And there are people sent. I've seen it happening. Since I've been in Rome here, for example, I know that there are people sent from reputable publications who -- they go about, while you're busy over here, they start digging into your private life and sort of getting into your banking affairs and any charities you might be involved in. And then they start bothering your friends and your business associates and harassing your family, including my 85-year-old father. And I find it -- it's a little spooky.
O'REILLY: We have heard that there is a reporter trying to dig up dirt on you, and who has bothered your 85-year-old father, trying to get provocative statements from him, and trying to portray you as a fanatic and perhaps a bigot, that this guy is operating right now. He's trying to dig up dirt on Mel Gibson. And do you believe it's because you're making this movie about Jesus?
GIBSON: I think it is, yes. I think he's been sent. So, that's the way it is. You got to deal with these things. I'm a big boy and I can take care of myself. And you can say what you like about me. I'm a public person, I suppose, although I don't ever remember signing the paper that I said I had no rights to privacy. But you can pick on me. But if you start picking on my family when I'm out of town, get ready.
O'REILLY: But I'm surprised that someone would go after somebody as well-liked as you are and as powerful as you are. And you really believe it's because you're making this movie about Jesus?
GIBSON: Yes, I think so. Yes, I think there's a lot of things that don't want it to happen. But, hey, as I said before, it's a film that speaks about faith, hope, love, and forgiveness. That's the basic message. And that's what we need to get back to, I think. And if everybody practiced a little more of that, there would be a lot less friction in the world.
O'REILLY: So, if this guy writes something terrible about you and your father and family, you are going to forgive him?
GIBSON: Yes. You've got to. I already did. But it's just perplexing.
(End Quote)
The Hoffman Wire Michael A. Hoffman II, Editor [url=http://www.hoffman-info.com/news.html]http://www.hoffman-info.com/news.html[/url]
2003-01-17 05:16 | User Profile
**O'REILLY: Is it going to upset some people to see the person they believe is God brutalized in this manner?
GIBSON: Well, I think anybody that is in the know about Jesus as God and they believe in that realize that he was brutalized and that I'm exploring it this way, I think, to show the extent of the sacrifice willingly taken. But I don't think people -- I think it's going to be hard to take, but I don't necessarily know that people are going to be upset by it.
O'REILLY: [color=blue]Is it going to upset any Jewish people? [/color]**
Beautiful, innit? The free world so cowers before The Wrath Of The 13 Muillion that the only safe way to broach the subject is to 'pad the order' with a wholly insincere question about devout Christians!
I think we all understand - here in America, anno domini 2003, the Piss Christ Republic and seven headed hydra of Empire where any AIDS faggot can moon St Peter's in broad daylight and any Jew can agitate against the Ten Commandments or a public Nativity symbol - that if all there were to worry about was "upset(ting) some people to see the person they believe is God brutalized" this wouldn't even be a controversy and Mel would be in sound-editing with Basil Poledouros working out the kinks in the scoring.
2003-01-17 13:10 | User Profile
**" Is it going to upset any Jewish people? **
Is it going to upset any Jewish people?
Oh, no not much. A major star, not to mention heart throb, who actually seems to have his head screwed on straight and wears his Catholicism on his sleeeve (what's he got - 12 children by one wife) is going to resurrect "THE BLOOD LIBEL" which until "THE HOLOCAUST" eclipsed it was for 2 millenia the rallying cry for jews to get back to the ghetto, bar the doors and shutter the windows.
But the difference between the two is that the Holocaust turned the tables on the goyim because now THEY are the killers and jews the victims. The Blood Libel is simultaneously hated and dreaded by the jews because they view it as the fulcrum which has moved anti semitism for 2000 years.
And they have through their machinations pretty much extinguished any mention of their guilt - yes guilt - for the death of Christ from the public square. They have used their power to browbeat Protestant and Catholics into somehow denying the truth of the NT by Jesuitical logic in which Christians say "well, only those jews in the Sandhedrin and the mob at that particular time wanted Christ dead. Not all jews. Plus they were doing Jesus a favor allowing him to fulfill his destiny by crucifying him".
Do you get the drift?
So now comes Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson of all people. Why couldn't it have been the obviously deranged Nicholas Cage? Or some supercilious pretty boy twit like DeCaprio or Baldwin? Why did it have to be Braveheart to make a freaking Passion Play for international distribution after jews had gone to the trouble to emascuate virtually every local European passion play that nobody went to see anyway?
If Gibson thinks dredging up dirt on his 85 year old dad is dirty pool. Wait till they really start playing hardball with him.
2003-01-17 15:18 | User Profile
Originally posted by eric von zipper@Jan 17 2003, 07:10 ** > **" Is it going to upset any Jewish people? **
Is it going to upset any Jewish people?
Oh, no not much. A major star, not to mention heart throb, who actually seems to have his head screwed on straight and wears his Catholicism on his sleeeve (what's he got - 12 children by one wife) is going to resurrect "THE BLOOD LIBEL" which until "THE HOLOCAUST" eclipsed it was for 2 millenia the rallying cry for jews to get back to the ghetto, bar the doors and shutter the windows. **
Y'all are blowing this up a bit. First of all, the movie's in Latin and Aramaic with no subtitles (last I heard). Gibson is not the star, so he's not going to be the box office draw. This does not sound like a huge moneymaker (which is fine in itself), but there are bills to pay. The only thing he's got going for him publicity-wise is own advertising budget and any controversy he can kick up. People are ransacking his private life? Really, a Hollywood star being investigated? That's something new. Well, at least it makes for a segment on O'Reilly and bit of free publicity in the NY Post.
Are there some Jews who are going to throw a fit? I have no doubt the usual over-sensitive suspects will start rending their shirts, but there'll be an equally noisy reaction on the other side defending him. Hell, Both Fox News and the NY Post are as pro-Jewish a newsource as you can come across and they covered the story sympathetically.
As to his career, it's hardly ending because of this. He's already signed on for yet another "Mad Max" movie, funded by (surprise, surprise) Fox for about $100 million, a quarter of which goes straight to Mel himself.
Best, P
2003-01-17 17:15 | User Profile
Mel Gibson's father on the Alex Jones radio program, second hour - 1:00 PM eastern time.
[url=http://www.infowars.com/]infowars.com[/url]
2003-01-18 05:58 | User Profile
SARTRE,
The audio wouldn't connect for me when I tried did you hear it?