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Zionuts Demand Support For TSLC

Thread ID: 20850 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2005-11-02

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Blond Knight [OP]

2005-11-02 01:45 | User Profile

Note: TSLC = "That Shitty Little Country".

A good article to pass along to your misguided dipsh!tsensationalist friends.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=6746[/url]

'Christian' Zionists Demand Slavish Support for Israel

Report; Posted on: 2005-11-01 16:15:59

Bloodthirsty heresy may yet plunge the planet into nuclear holocaust

America's neo-con Fifth Column is in a panic in the wake of “Hell Week.” Americans nationwide reacted with outrage as the 2000th meaningless death in Iraq was announced, and hit back with hundreds of protests coast-to-coast. Harriet Miers, George Bush’s former personal lawyer, was forced to withdraw her nomination in the face of opposition from Bush’s conservative base. And of Friday Dick Cheney’s Jewish Rasputin, neo-con I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby was indicted for shenanigans related to the phony “evidence” used to launch Bush’s invasion of Iraq in line with the neo-con agenda.

The neo-cons have been in free-fall for awhile, and are now reduced to alliances with some of the nuttiest extremists in America, including fanatic followers of a Christian heresy that says that the State of Israel is divinely ordained and that anything – even treason against the United States – is justifiable in the Jewish state’s defense.

So-called “Christian Zionism” is a pernicious philosophy that has much well-funded influence in evangelical circles, especially amongst the leadership, and has also made inroads into Catholic theology. Luckily, many serious Christians are increasingly questioning the heresy, which has led to a paranoid, panic reaction – a usual problem for neo-cons.

One of the mainstays of the “Christian Zionist” line is an obscure Bible verse which they interpret to mean that God will “bless” those who support Israel and Zionism.

Ironically, the same people bemoan the lack of “blessings” America has seen since the US and Stalin’s Soviet Union voted to create the State of Israel in 1948. All the usual Christian problem issues, from mass open immorality to widespread abortion to growing religious skepticism have arisen since God should have begun “blessing” the United States, if the “Christian Zionist” interpretation is correct. However, logic has never been a strong suit in these quarters. Some – such as the televangelist madman Pat Robertson – are even “more Zionist than the Zionists,” openly attacking Israeli strongman Ariel Sharon for the Gaza withdrawal.

In Jerusalem Wire, a “Christian Zionist” mouthpiece, South African born “Christian Zionist” Stan Goodenough rants that his fellow US citizens are not rabid enough in their support of Israel. “For many American Christians, even some who support a strong alliance with Israel, criticism leveled against their government for dealing unfairly or unjustly with the Jewish nation is hard to stomach…The most common protests assert that the US is Israel’s best friend, giving her billions of dollars in aid every year and doing more than any other nation to support and strengthen her in an unfriendly world,” he rants. “…The US does give Israel between two and three billion dollars annually...Israel is also given access to some of America’s most advanced weaponry. Furthermore, America has without question stood like a bulwark against the rising tide of anti-Israel sentiment in the United Nations. But for Washington’s use of its veto and influence, Israel may have already been done away with through a mixture of universal political de-legitimization and military force.” But none of this is good enough for Goodenough. "[B]ut for the United States, Israel would not have compromised its security to the extent that it has, allowing the establishment of a Palestinian Authority in Israel’s heartland, handing over historical Jewish lands to the Arabs, agreeing to the eventual establishment of a Palestinian state, sowing deep division among its own people and, last month, expelling thousands of Jews from their homes [in Gaza].”

For people like Goodenough, anything less than whatever Israel wants is wrong, even demonic. Such thinking is in line with the far more intelligent, and lethal, neo-cons and others in the Zionist lobby, who control US foreign policy. That such thinking is common among gentile America’s religious leaders should worry us all.

Source: NV Staff • Printed from National Vanguard ( [url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=6746[/url] ) National Vanguard • Box 5145 • Charlottesville • VA 22905 • USA NationalVanguard.org

Gregor

2005-11-02 15:19 | User Profile

Oh yeah, that'll work. :wallbash:

They'll just jump right over to Vanguard and learn to goosestep. :wallbash:

As that great american icon, Buzz Lightyear, once said, "you're mocking me." :wallbash:

'Knight, ya gotta decide which is more important to you: Winning hearts and minds to the truth (that you already know) or ridiculing people who don't know it. Because you can't do both in the same space.

Didja notice this nugget in that smarmy post? "Luckily, many serious Christians are increasingly questioning the heresy, which has led to a paranoid, panic reaction – a usual problem for neo-cons."

If the idea is to drive a wedge between the ignorant sheep and their deceivers, I don't think belittling them is the best method. There is some truth scattered around at places like VNN and SF, but those who most need to hear it are staying away in crowds. Ever wonder why?

If you have the truth on your side, ya gotta act like it.

Blond Knight

2005-11-02 16:02 | User Profile

Gregor,

I posted this article because it had some interesting points that ironically, sounded much like a conversation yours truly had with an Izzy worshiping person several years ago:

[QUOTE]So-called “Christian Zionism” is a pernicious philosophy that has much well-funded influence in evangelical circles, especially amongst the leadership, and has also made inroads into Catholic theology. Luckily, many serious Christians are increasingly questioning the heresy, which has led to a paranoid, panic reaction – a usual problem for neo-cons.[/QUOTE]

This was the exact argument used by my TSLC worshiping friend:

[QUOTE]One of the mainstays of the “Christian Zionist” line is an obscure Bible verse which they interpret to mean that God will “bless” those who support Israel and Zionism.[/QUOTE]

My rebutal was that the blessings were fulfilled through the life and works of Jesus Christ, and that worshiping TSLC violates the first commandment.

To which my TSLC worshiping friend replied: "The reason we have problems in America is because we do not give enought to TSLC." (Dang nearly verbatim, they must remember these spiels, just like the Jehovah Witnesses)

My rebutal was that since 1948 our country as been the recipient of the strangest "blessings" one could imagine:

[QUOTE] All the usual Christian problem issues, from mass open immorality to widespread abortion to growing religious skepticism have arisen since God should have begun “blessing” the United States, if the “Christian Zionist” interpretation is correct.[/QUOTE]

When discussing this issue with TSLC worshiping fanatics through the years, it is obvious that for most of these misguided zealots, this is a purely emotional issue, no thinking needed, and certainly no wavering from their dogma is allowed.

Gregor

2005-11-02 17:27 | User Profile

'Knight

Sorry about the terse post, I feel very strongly about this issue. Many of my loved ones are still trapped in that Zionist lie. I want them to hear the truth. But they'll never hear you if are ridiculing them for their ignorance. You've been nice to me, and I'm listening. You said in an earlier thread that you have to be prepared to drop your misconceptions (or words to that effect). It takes patient help for anyone to do that. This whole thing is a real paradigm shift for those 'Christian Zionists'. They've been beaten down with the 'fear of the Jews.'

[quote=Blond Knight]When discussing this issue with TSLC worshiping fanatics through the years, it is obvious that for most of these misguided zealots, this is a purely emotional issue, no thinking needed, and certainly no wavering from their dogma is allowed.

Lets just say that that statement is true. Basing a world view on emotion doesn't work very well in the long run. You eventually have to deal with the truth, when truth contradicts that emotion. Especially if you've given your life to seeking the Truth! Which, by definition, IS a christian.

Knight, I am a testimony to the fact that these people are natural allies and are not set in concrete. They will HEAR the truth eventually. Solzhenitsyn said that 'truth, in it's first hearing is always negative.' We are asking these people a scary thing, -to reject a firmly held belief and risk offending God.

I'm just asking for your help in educating them.

Blond Knight

2005-11-02 21:45 | User Profile

Gregor,

You make a lot of excellent points. Better sources for materials for outreach to our misguided TSLC worshiping friends would be places like We Hold These Truths, Ted Pike, Emmissary Publications and even some of the conservative churches that are not of the dispensationalist bent.

It's been many moons since yours truly "saw the light" about the zionist worshiping heresy, so you make a good point about how hard it is to admit to oneself that what you believe is wrong.

Quantrill

2005-11-02 21:52 | User Profile

I was raised in an extremely zionist, philosemitic Christian tradition, and I can verify that getting past that mindset can be very difficult, indeed. Even after I was a diehard, traditionalist, orthodox Christian palecon, the truth about Israel and modern Jewry was the very last piece to fall into place. Years of 'Jesus-was-a-Jew' programming are hard (but not impossible) to overcome.

Gregor

2005-11-02 23:24 | User Profile

Thanks Knight, Quantrill

I still believe that God has a plan for the Jews. REAL Jews. Descendants of Abraham who follow Moses. That eliminates most of the ones out there today. I mean, can you imagine Moses embracing Alan Dershowitz? And even at that Paul says that they are enemies because of the gospel.

And according to Jesus, from the book of Revelation, the posers are a synogogue of Satan.

travis

2005-11-03 00:16 | User Profile

What are some of the best links to offer Christian-zionists you meet on the net?

Gregor

2005-11-03 00:37 | User Profile

[quote=travis]What are some of the best links to offer Christian-zionists you meet on the net?

I was gonna use this one. TD's got great stuff. Petr. Sertorius (when he's not belittling them) Lots of others. There's a lot of talent around here. And anything to do with Kevin Macdonald (that's what got me) I know he's coming at it from the secular end, but his scholarship can't be denied, If it wouldn't infringe copyright, we should have all of his essays in some thread around here. Maybe even design a 'primer section' for christians looking for the truth. But make it simple. ya know? Hey, if you build it, they WILL come. People are looking for truth.

travis

2005-11-03 01:02 | User Profile

Yes, OD is a good link to use, I think anything from MacDonald is best suited for academic types with a long attention span. I have Culture of Critique sitting here as it has been for two years and I have not delved into it yet...too many pages of fine print for my short attention span, LOL. For every one person that is a real truthseeker you will find 10 that think they are but need to have the truth surgically implanted before they acknowledge it. For the latter type what is needed is a short, to the point and palatable explanation by someone who has much better writing skills than I have. I think those who are unmotivated just need to be exposed to the truth about Jews...then let time take it's toll. There are tons of links like that from the secular and atheist angle, but more are needed from the Christian angle. Sometimes I use this one:

[url]http://www.sweetliberty.org/index.shtml[/url]

Quantrill

2005-11-03 01:35 | User Profile

We have had a few good discussions about books to give to people to begin opening their eyes. One such thread is here -- [URL="http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14923"]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14923[/URL]

Israel Shahak's book, [I]Jewish History, Jewish Religion[/I] is really quite excellent, and (as Walter Yannis has pointed out) because it is written by a Jew, it totally flies under the radar of anyone who reads it. In other words, they are more likely to give it a fair reading, because the author's Jewishness keeps their Pavlovian response to 'anti-Semitism' from kicking in.

After (and only after) they've read that, you might be able to get them to read Michael Hoffman's [I]Judaism's Strange Gods[/I], which is an excellent book, but which is way too bare-knuckled to give to a neophyte.

EDIT -- I just realized that you were asking about web links, not books. For Catholics (and probably Orthodox), the Apologia Catholic web forum is probably a good recommendation. The lady that runs the forum is a traditionalist Catholic, and she seems to know the score. It is here -- [url]http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/apologia[/url]

travis

2005-11-03 01:53 | User Profile

The Shahak History book is a very good one. Have not read Hoffman.

I'm often at a loss with the very religious folks when it comes to waking them up about the Jews, mainly because I'm not a biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination. Most often, these guys will not respond well to secular logic, which is what my own arguments are limited to. The good thing is, these types are usually not apathetic and this is why I see an opportunity. I saw this link posted on the USrael thread:

[url]http://www.whtt.org/index.php?news=1[/url]

What do you think of it?

Blond Knight

2005-11-03 02:11 | User Profile

Some books that were helpfull in opening my eyes in this matter:

Also check the link @ bottom for Jack Bernstein's book.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=44[/url]

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=40[/url]

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=37[/url]

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=32[/url]

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=21[/url]

[url]http://www.whtt.org/popupdetails.php?popup=1&prodId=17[/url]

Check entire book selection @ [url]http://www.midnight-emissary.com/catalog.htm[/url]

Jack Bernstein's 60 Page book "The Life of an American Jew in Marxist, Rascist Israel" is posted here: [url]http://www.midnight-emissary.com/IsraelArticle.htm[/url]

travis

2005-11-03 02:31 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Some books that were helpfull in opening my eyes in this matter:

[/QUOTE]Thanks, I'll bookmark. I might buy some of them myself. The majority of the people I deal with on the Jewish question are on the net, so convincing them to buy a book is a difficult sell. Also, anyone intersested enough to even read a book critical about Jews is a bird in the bag as far as I'm concerned. The issue is self-evident. An open mind and twenty minutes of conversation is all it takes, the problem is getting their mind open. "All roads lead to Rome" so to speak.The digestion period may take some time, but I'm working on someone else at that stage. If we can each get 5 people interested every month, it will have a pyramid effect at some point.